Ep. 10 - The Faithful Father Of Christmas

A quiet carpenter stands at the hinge of history. Joseph hears the unthinkable, wrestles with honour and mercy, and then does something rare: he obeys immediately. We walk through the Christmas story from his vantage point, where character is forged in private and courage looks like protecting a newborn king in the middle of the night. Along the way, we map the prophecies that thread through Bethlehem, Egypt, and Nazareth, and we hold Joseph’s faith up against Herod’s fear to see what true strength really is.

We open Matthew’s account and trace the moments that define Joseph: choosing compassion before the angel’s message, taking Mary as his wife, naming Jesus, and delaying consummation to honour the virgin birth. When danger rises, Joseph moves fast—leaving for Egypt at night, listening to guidance in dreams, and returning only when it is safe. Set beside him is Herod, marshalling secrecy and rage, weaponizing information, and ordering the massacre of boys to guard his throne. The contrast is sharp and deeply relevant: obedience protects life; fear destroys it.

This conversation is for anyone who longs for a grounded picture of faith and manhood. We explore how everyday obedience links to ancient promises, how courage can be quiet yet decisive, and how trusting God’s word still leads us through uncertain roads. We also share our holiday break plans and what’s ahead in the new year, inviting your topic ideas and questions.

Listen to reimagine Christmas through Joseph’s eyes, find fresh courage for your own crossroads, and share it with someone who needs hope. If this resonated, follow the show, leave a rating, and tell us what part of Joseph’s story challenged you most.

Transcript

Christmas Focus And Holiday Break

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Welcome to the Brotherhood Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the Brotherhood Podcast. Um, today we are switching things up a little bit as we're getting into the Christmas season. We're only about a week and a half away, and so we wanted to talk a little bit about Christmas um on this episode, and then we are going to be taking a bit of a break. We'll be coming back uh probably I don't know, first or second week into the new year, I think, hey Craig? Something like that.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Yeah, I think uh yeah, we'll kind of see how it goes, but we'll uh we'll definitely take a break here for the Christmas holiday and spend some time with family, and uh also in that we'll uh we'll decide on kind of what we're gonna tackle in the new year and uh and get a bank of some episodes so we're not running week to week back to back kind of thing. So that'll be nice to start the year off like that. But yeah, today we're gonna talk about uh Christmas since it's right around the corner. Hopefully, if you guys are watching this, I hope you like my decorations. And uh I got baby Jesus behind me.

Why Study Joseph’s Role

SPEAKER_01 1:36

So that's fun. I did not do much decorating today. I gotta work on that. Um yeah, so that's kind of what our plan is, guys. We're going to uh discuss a little bit about Christmas today, but we kind of want to talk more from the perspective of Joseph. Um, and so that'll be today's topic, and then into the new year there we'll finish off. I think we have three fruits of the spirit left, and then we'll kind of work our way into uh a few other episodes. Um we're not totally set on what we're gonna talk about yet, but um I guess that'll be a surprise for everybody in the new year once we kind of figure that out. So uh our goal today was, like I say, to talk about Joseph. Um I think he's a really interesting person to read about in the Bible when it comes to the birth of Jesus and just how everything went. Um, I don't know about you, Craig, but I know for me, like I almost had a hard time finding a whole lot of verses that spoke just about Joseph. Yeah, I think through the birth of Jesus, anyways, right? Later on, there's a few more, but through the birth of Jesus, it seemed like it was kind of limited, unless I was maybe just looking in the wrong spot.

Joseph’s Character In Matthew 1

SPEAKER_03 3:00

No, I think there's not really very much, and like usually like if you read the Christmas story, right, at Christmas time, um we like to do that before we uh open our gifts, uh read you know, Luke chapter two, right? But um there's not much really in Luke, I feel like, about Joseph. There's more in Matthew, so that's kind of where I pulled my um verses from for tonight, but I don't I don't know what you found.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Yeah, I got a few verses, a couple of them came out of Matthew as well. Um, so that's actually one of the first verses I have. Before we get started, though, I I do want to make it clear to everybody, we're not taking um the emphasis off of Jesus and Christmas because we all know that that's what Christmas is about, is the birth of Jesus. Um, we just wanted to look at it kind of from Joseph's perspective and kind of study his personality and characteristics through the whole process of Jesus being born and just see how how Joseph reacted, how he um yeah, just put his faith in God.

Obedience After The Dream

SPEAKER_03 4:15

So yeah, I don't know, Craig, if um, I was I was just gonna say that uh I think as men um looking at it's a different take, you know, on the on the Christmas story, and I think it it's kind of fun to dive into that side of it because there's not really much said about Joseph, but I mean he he was the earthly father to Jesus, and he was um you know he was responsible for keeping our savior safe, basically, caring for him and providing for him in uh in an earthly manner, and it's uh it's kind of cool to look at it um from like a father and husband perspective as well. Um I kind of did I guess what we could do is um like kind of how I have it is I have Joseph, and then I'll also talk about Herod a little bit too. So I have Joseph kinda on the um on the good uh manly traits side of things, and then I have King Herod on the negative traits, and basically I kind of just follow the story, um and I kind of have it broke down roughly verse by verse, but uh I it kind of starts with Joseph anyway, but if we I'll just if you don't mind, I'll just read Matthew 1, 19 and 20, just to start us off here, and I have a little couple comments about it. Sure. Yep. Um so that says, and her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly. But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. Um So with that it says that Joseph was a just man, and some translations I think say he's a good man, and um I think something to note there is Joseph would have been just in uh breaking off the engagement or divorcing her out ha as it says in here, but um and he also would have been just in stoning Mary as well, right? Because she had conceived outside of marriage, and I mean at the at that point, um I guess before the angel appeared to him in his dream, he didn't know, right? I g my my question is for you guys that are married, or maybe you're kinda maybe you're engaged or thinking about being married, imagine for a moment, if you will, if your fiance told you that she was pregnant or with child, and you guys had not you know that you had not um been intimate with each other, right? I mean I would I'd be pretty upset. Oh yeah, yeah. And like if you just take her word for it, like well, no, it's you know uh I didn't I didn't cheat on you, I didn't sleep with anybody else. I you know this is this is from God. Be like, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Yeah, tell me another one, right? Well, and Joseph kind of like he grew up around that, knowing that there was gonna be a savior born in Bethlehem and stuff too, right? Um yeah, I guess I kind of wonder, like, when it really came down to it, I wonder if he ever expected that he would be that person, you know. I like I wonder what his first thought was when Mary um told him that she was pregnant with with the savior of the world, you know? Right.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

I don't know, that's it uh I was gonna say, sorry, later uh where was it? So there was Yeah, it says actually in verse 19 um unwilling to put her to shame, uh he resolved to divorce her quietly or break off the engagement quietly. So uh he was even um so I don't know what like uh his first reaction, I don't know what it would have been, but he did plan to um he's like okay, well I'm just gonna you know just gonna break off the engagement, or I guess we're done with this, right?

Prophecy And Bethlehem Questions

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Um I find it interesting too in verse 20 where and um maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way, but verse 20, but after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife. And then this part here, uh, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. So the angels explaining to Joseph that the baby is from God, from the Holy Spirit, that he is the savior of the world, right? So I wonder if he was. I mean, obviously he thought she was cheating on him, you know, or sleeping around. That's kind of what I get from from that, is that you know, he thinks that she's been unfaithful to him. Um, which I mean, I guess with her being pregnant, that's probably pretty obvious. But I find it interesting how the angel um speaks directly on that to kind of calm him and you know tell him what the truth is. Um yeah.

Herod’s Fear And Deceit

SPEAKER_03 11:02

If you go a bit further here, though, I guess while you're looking for where you're going, I was uh I was just gonna note that he had thought that there was only two options, right? Uh like to stone her or uh to divorce her quietly, but uh with through the angel, God gave him a third option. Um and uh I was just gonna note that sometimes doing the quote unquote right thing legally or justly uh can be the wrong thing. And uh yeah, yeah, Joseph was I I was gonna note too that Joseph was visited uh by an angel of the Lord, but um I'm just thinking, like reading through it in in the constect context of today, it's like, oh well it'd be nice if an angel would just tell me what to do, right? Instead of wondering. But it's like what do I do here? What do I do there? But uh the difference is uh we have the Holy Spirit. If uh you know, if you're a believer and you've given your life to the Lord and accepted him as your Lord and Savior, you have the Holy Spirit in you, you have access to a 24-7, so you don't need an angel, you know, to come and um tell you what to do in a dream like it did with Joseph. Uh but I think it's important to note that if we're if we are uh in the word um daily, like we should be, and in communication with God through prayer, I think that He will uh speak to us in hard to navigate circumstances as well. And um, I mean this was a pretty hard circumstance to navigate. What do you do? Right?

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Yeah, oh absolutely. Um, so one thing I want to say on that point too is I notice in my own life when I when I pray and when I read the Bible and when I seek God earnestly with my whole heart, every time you open the Bible, it's like God is speaking to you. Um, which I found really interesting because I feel like that's you know, the first time that's happened in my life was a couple months ago where I felt like every time I opened a devotion or I opened the Bible, God was speaking to me. And I think that's the truth, you know. No matter what you read in in the Bible, um, that's something to take to heart, and it is, you know, God's words, maybe not directly, but God can use his word to speak to us, um, whether we think he is or is not. Right. Absolutely. So I don't know if you had um this verse later on, Craig, but it's in the same chapter, Matthew 1, verse 24, just a little further on when Joseph wakes up from this uh I don't know if it's uh a dream, I guess. Um yeah. Lord appeared to him in a dream. Okay, so in this dream, uh verse 24 is when he wakes up. It says, When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife, but he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son, and he gave him the name Jesus. I really like that verse because again, being uh being a dad, when you tell your kids uh to do something once, uh it doesn't always get done the first time, it doesn't always get done the second time. Sometimes it's five, six, yeah. Well, it's five or six times later, right? Yeah, yeah. Some days it does, yeah. But I find this verse interesting because as soon as Joseph wakes up, he obeys a hundred percent. He's faithful, he takes Mary as his wife, and uh the heading I like the heading on this these verses too. It's Joseph accepts Jesus as his son, right? So it's hard to explain, I guess, because God is Jesus' father, and so we say Joseph is his earthly father, but I wonder too, like how hard that would have been for him. Um yeah, I just I put myself in that situation, not his blood, right? Yeah, that's uh yeah, like you gotta wonder if that was a struggle for him or if he had to kind of work through that, maybe knowing that he was gonna raise the the savior of the world. I mean, that's a that's a huge honor to have that from God, but uh for me, man, I would be I'd be nervous, and especially yeah, especially because like you say, he's not your blood. I think for me that would have been maybe a little bit hard. Maybe it's different with it being Jesus. I I don't know. And the Bible doesn't from what I've found, it doesn't really clarify um social uh Joseph's thoughts on that.

Flight To Egypt And Protection

SPEAKER_03 16:49

Okay, so yes, I also had that verse as well, because I kind of just went uh kind of went through the story. I think it's interesting that you said your heading there. Um you had um Joseph accepts Jesus as his son. I don't have that in mind, so that's cool. Um Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

It's just what the heading said, and I thought that was I thought that was really neat. It just kind of sparked that question in my mind, you know, if he if that's something he had to kind of battle through, or if yeah, it's just something I kind of had thought about, but that's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

Um I did have so yeah, like you said, I made a note that he did exactly as the angel commanded him to do. Um he took Mary as his wife, he he decided not to um break off the engagement, and like it says there, um well, mine says, but knew her not. So they did not consummate their marriage, they were not intimate with each other. Um if you don't know what that means, that means they did not have sex, plain and simple, um, until Jesus was born, which is interesting. Um so I'll come back to that, but the I think the importance of that is um obviously, if you know any basic biology, you know that no sex means no way to um deny the miraculous virgin conception and birth of Jesus, right? Yeah, um yeah, that's kind of what I have for that. I thought that was uh um pretty interesting that it noted that.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Yeah, I I've sorry, I think that's neat too, because actually, yeah, I just wanted to uh say on that Craig and I talked about this a few days earlier. Um for those of you that that are married, you probably kind of know what you're we're talking about. Even for those that aren't married, you probably know what we're talking about too. Um when you first get married, uh to not have sex is like that. Is I'll I'm just being straight up honest here. That is very, very, very hard not to do. Uh yeah, I for me, I don't know that I could have done it. So I think that is incredible. Um that for the whole pregnancy of Jesus, you know, they I don't know if you'd call it staying pure, but they um yeah, didn't didn't, like you say, have any intimacy with each other in that way. Um and therefore you can't, like you said, you can't deny the miracle of the birth of Jesus uh from the Virgin Mary.

SPEAKER_03 20:01

Right. And um like I guess I was gonna turn this over, but I won't do that yet. Um what was I gonna say?

Massacre, Return, And fulfilled Prophecies

SPEAKER_02 20:12

The I forget.

SPEAKER_03 20:20

Oh, I was gonna say, like, yeah, just imagine um being freshly married, right? And like you said, it'd be very hard not to um be intimate with each other. So uh my brain is gone. What was I gonna say? Um okay. Um so I think uh that's all I have to say about the no sex thing, but I did want to note that that section there uh with uh on Matthew 124, I did note that it's uh a good example of Joseph's obedience and faithfulness to the Lord. So um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

I think it's a good example to follow. Um you know, sometimes it's hard to believe what God says, but when he asks us to trust him, um take a step in faith and just do it, and he will take care of the rest.

SPEAKER_03 21:30

Trust in the Lord and be of courage. Love it. Wonderful. Um okay, you had I think you had something else there.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Yeah, so I'm probably uh I don't know if I'm going to read the whole thing. I had uh Micah 5, the whole chapter in here. Basically, what it is is um well the heading for it is a promised ruler from Bethlehem. So I guess maybe I I never I never put a whole lot of emphasis on this, but um this chapter explains how Jesus was to be born in Bethlehem, and uh I thought it was interesting how when the census was taken, with Joseph being from the family line of David, he had to go to Bethlehem in order to um, or sorry, for the census, and I just thought it was kind of interesting, you know, and um through kind of looking at Joseph's life, I had a lot of questions, and one of them too that I had is like when it comes to this part of the story, I wonder if Joseph knew that you know it was gonna happen, like because I don't think Mary really went into labor until they got to Bethlehem, right? They couldn't find a room and and everything, and um yeah, I just wonder what was on Joseph's mind, like if he was thinking that Jesus was gonna be born here, or if he was going to, you know, I I mean if he knew this this part of the Bible uh growing up, he would have probably known these stories, right? That a savior was to be born there. So yeah, that's just a question I had is I wonder if he thought about that while they were on their way to Bethlehem.

Angels, Dreams, And The Holy Spirit

SPEAKER_03 23:39

Yeah, I wonder too if like so they're like betrothed to be married or whatever, or they are married at this point. I don't even know. I don't fully understand. Um, I'd probably have to read it closer, but um when the census was called, um I wonder if like in Joseph's head, because he was just, he was good, he was he was a man of God. And so would he have been like, Oh, I gotta go to Bethlehem for this census? Mary's almost due. He's like, Well, that makes sense. Click ding.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Yeah, but again, you know, he's he's faithful in going there. Probably, I you know, I feel like he would have some understanding of what was going on, you know. Yeah, I think he would have some expectation of something happening. You you would think, but I mean, well, yeah, I don't know. It's an interesting question.

Trusting God When It Makes No Sense

SPEAKER_03 24:50

Yeah, I I had never really thought about it until we kind of decided to make this episode and kind of um actually look at it from like Joseph's point of view, but yeah, I think like I said, because Joseph was the man of God, and he would have known scripture, he would have known these prophecies, right? Uh he would have had some kind of clue, I'm sure. Um, and I think like the prophecy you're talking about, I will I have kind of something around that same section in Matthew, because Matthew kind of mentions it. So I'll okay it there. Um, yeah, absolutely. Uh Matthew chapter 2 verses I will probably just go ahead and read from verse 3 to 8, and then I'll uh we can kind of dissect that. Um so that says when Herod the King heard when Herod the King heard this, maybe I should just start at the beginning. So Matthew chapter 2, the heading is the visit of the wise men. So I guess I should also, we should kind of read the context as well for people that maybe aren't in the Bible as much or don't know the story. So um beginning in verse one there says, Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem, saying, Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it rose, and have come to worship him. When Herod, the king, heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him, and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. They told him, in Bethlehem of Judea, for so it is written by the prophet, and I think this is I wonder if this is the prophecy in Micah. Um let me see six sorry, I think there is a f uh like a footer here, six. Oh, yep. Let me where is it? I don't know. Okay, I'm gonna continue. But this this part is the prophecy. Uh, and you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah. For from you shall come a ruler who will shepherd my people, Israel. Uh so that's verse six uh B. Uh no. Verse six. Sorry, my eyes are buggy. Verse 7. Uh then Herod summoned the wise men. Yeah. Uh then Herod summoned the wise men secretly. I've got it underlined there, secretly, and ascertained from them what time the star had appeared. Um so Herod, I think, in all that was acting out of fear. Um it says he was troubled uh and he assembled priests and scribes uh because he needed to know uh you know where this so-called king was going to be born. And in verse five, it does say um well I guess it's verse six, actually. Oh no, verse five, in Bethlehem of Judea is what he was told. And then in verse seven, he summoned the wise men, and like I stressed secretly to gain info. So the way I see it is Herod was on the offense big time. Um he he was doing reconnaissance like his life depended on it, right? And uh and kind of in a way it did. But so in verse eight it says, and he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him, bring me word that I too may come and worship him. So in verse eight, uh, he is clearly being deceitful. He it says that he wants to worship this king as well, but what he really wants is to know exactly where this so-called new king of the Jews is at, so that he can have him killed. Um so yeah, in that section there, like he's acting out of fear, he's being deceitful, um, he's plotting to murder, right? These are all negative traits um of not good men. So I don't know if you have any thoughts on that. I know you didn't really go into Herod too much in your studying, but I thought those were some interesting takeaways.

Big-Picture Takeaways On Joseph And Herod

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Yeah, absolutely. Um, one thing that it uh actually I wanted to talk about was a little bit further, and you might have this in uh your book two there was verse thirteen. Kind of thirteen to about sixteen or so. Um says, When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. Get up, he said, take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him. So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night, and left for Egypt, where he stayed until the death of Herod, and so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet, out of Egypt I called my son. I um I think that's interesting too, because you know, Joseph doesn't just so show faithfulness with the birth of Jesus, he shows faithfulness for his whole life. Like, imagine having a dream in the middle of the night and waking up and being like, Okay, we gotta go and pack in now. Yeah, yeah. Like just knowing, um, I mean, obviously at this point with Jesus being born, being born in Bethlehem, right? Joseph knows that this is a savior of the world, and so I think that too would um I think that would give him some sense of trust in that way, right? Knowing that this is God's son, and um, you know, knowing what the story says about the savior coming to save the world. So I I think he would have some trust because of that, but I think you know, having an angel tell you that someone's coming to kill your baby, like that's uh I think you would have a bit of nerves and um be a little bit afraid of that too, I would think, right?

SPEAKER_03 32:32

I would think so. Yeah, I I do have those verses as well. Um okay. But uh yeah, I guess in actually even in verse 12, like uh I'll go back to the wise men for a second. In verse 12, it says, uh, and being warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they departed to their own country by another way. So um so God was even working with the wise men too, right? Like saying, Hey, you can't go back to Herod and tell him where this baby's at, you gotta go a different way home. And so they were even faithful in doing that. They're like, Oh, okay, I guess we'll take the long way, we'll take the scenic round, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Well, I think it's just a good reminder, like when God has something planned, we don't have to doubt him, right? When he says to do something, do it. Right, we don't know what's if we choose our own way, who's to say that that's not gonna be the end of us, kind of a thing, you know.

SPEAKER_03 33:36

That's right. Um, yeah, and that I noted again, like it seems to me that how God communicated with Joseph was through dreams. I just thought I noticed that, and that was kind of interesting to me. Um, I don't remember like how did the angel appear to Mary? Was it a physical manifestation or was it through a dream as well? Do you remember? I thought it I think that's in Luke.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Compared to him. I don't know. I for some reason I feel like it was uh physical for her, but I could be very wrong.

SPEAKER_03 34:37

Uh let's see. So Luke 126 is birth of Jesus foretold. In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph of the house of David, and the virgin's name was Mary. And he came to her and said, Greetings, O favoured one, the Lord is with you. But she was greatly troubled. Angel said, Do not be afraid, for I have come or for you have found favor with God. Um Behold, you will conceive in your womb, bear a son, and call him Jesus. Yeah, uh to me that looks like a physical manifestation. So I thought that was interesting, the distinction there between the I didn't have that in my notes, but well, I had the dream part, but then I as I was saying it, I was like, oh, what about Mary? How did how'd the angel come to Mary?

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting. One thing I picked out of that too is just her faithfulness, too, in that, right?

SPEAKER_03 35:58

Yeah, uh, and she was troubled. She's like, uh, hello. Isn't that funny? What are you? Why are you here?

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Yeah. Well, even when it comes to the birth of Jesus, like they questioned, I mean, obviously, they question it a little bit too, right? Like, we question a lot of things, and God's like, Don't question it. Trust me, I got this.

SPEAKER_03 36:25

Yeah.

unknown 36:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

And it's neat.

Holiday Sign-Off And Listener Requests

SPEAKER_03 36:28

Like, uh, I don't know if I mentioned this in uh my in our testimony uh episode, but I remember I think I must have. But if I didn't, sorry, I'm gonna mention it now. Um when we were planning to when we were planning to go to Africa on that mission trip, right? I was like, there's no way we can do this financially. Like it this just doesn't make sense. And so I told the guy that we were gonna go with. I was like, I don't think we're gonna make it, I'm sorry. Like, I'll give you the I can give you the money that I have raised already for it, and it can go towards um towards your guys' trip. You can use it for what you guys are gonna use it for down there. He was kind of sad, and he's like, Okay, well, that's too bad. And then it was I don't know, three, four days, maybe a week. Um, God was just like pricking at my heart. He's like, I got this, I got this, like you're going. Tell him you're gonna go. I got it figured out. And I'm like, I am just I don't know how to explain that feeling because it was like it was like inside, and I was like, Oh man, I don't know. Like, are you sure? And he's like, just yes, trust me. I was like, okay, like because I really can't do this on my own. So then I called called the guy up, and I'm like, God's telling me we need to go. This is it. Like, uh like he's got it under control. So anyway, then we did one more round of fundraising, and then we had more than enough. And I was like, okay, God, I see you. Thank you. But yeah, like, so that's a big thing in my life. I was slow to trust, uh as I'm sure many of you guys are that are listening, like um, you know, you think Jonah too, going to Nineveh, right? God says, Go to Nineveh. He's like, I don't want to. I'm gonna take a ship and go the other way. And then he ends up in the sea in the belly of a fish, and for three days, God put him on a timeout and then let him back out, and he's like, Okay, I'll go. But yeah, so I felt kind of like Jonah.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

This is a bit of a yep, it's a bit of a side note, but do you ever wonder? Because everything we tell our kids with Jonah and the whale is always about a whale, but the Bible, I don't think actually says whale, it says fish.

SPEAKER_03 39:06

Says a big fish, so I don't know what that means. I'm not like I said, I'm not a Bible scholar. Maybe um I'd have to look it up, but I wonder if like Apologetics Canada, um, like Wes Huff, he has been a great resource for me for like scientific and historical biblical facts. And like he he can like read the original manuscripts and stuff like that, and he's got yeah, it's really cool listening to him talk, but anyway, he might have something on that. I don't know. He's got he's got a YouTube channel and stuff like that. Yep, you guys can go find him, but uh yeah, kind of cool, but yeah, side note, but a good side note because yeah, I don't know. Back to Christmas. Um so I think I think again what I'm gonna do is read that you uh what did you read already? You read 13 to 15. I'll read sixteen to um twenty, I think. Yeah, sixteen to twenty. So from sixteen to eighteen it is it the heading is Herod kills the children, and then uh over nineteen it says the return to Nazareth. So um in verse sixteen, then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, became furious, and he sent and killed all the male children in Bethlehem, and in all that region who were two years old or under, according to the time that he had ascertained from the wise men. Then was fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet Jeremiah. So here's another fulfillment of prophecy already. Um a voice was heard in Rama, weeping in loud lamentation, Rachel weeping for her children, she refused to be comforted because they are no more. Um and then in nineteen, but when Herod died, behold an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream again, like I said, to Joseph in Egypt, saying, Rise, take the child and his mother, and go to the land of Israel, for those who sought the children's life are dead. So I have some kind of side notes here, and I'll talk a little bit about what you read as well. So in verse 13, um but it seems like as soon as the wise men left, uh the angel appeared to Joseph in that dream, telling him to flee to Egypt, uh, and then stay until uh, like the angel said, stay until I tell you, uh, because Herod will search uh search for the child to kill him. Um and then in verse 14 and 15 uh 14, he left in the night. So as soon as, like you said, like as soon as the angel appeared to him and and said, like, get up and go, he's like, Okay, let's go. Um and then he did stay in Egypt until uh until Herod died. So um 14 and 15 again are uh very good examples of Joseph's obedience. And then like I said in uh like 1718 there. Or yeah, 1718 the uh fulfillment of oh no, fifteen maybe even? Yeah, fifteen. Uh yes, at the end of th uh fifteen there. Uh or fifteen. And remained they remained there until uh the death of Herod. This will too. This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet out of Egypt I call my son. So there's another fulfillment of prophecy there. Um and then verse 16. Herod was acting out of anger. Um he was furious, like it said, that the wise men outwitted him. He was probably uh high and mighty, like you know, no one's gonna pull the wool over my eyes, kind of guy, right? And he was trying to deceive them. Hey, yeah, come back, tell me where the child is. I want to go worship him, but the script got flipped. Um God knew God knows what he's doing.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

Um, and I think that's a good example of a worldly view, too, right? Oh, yeah. Like King Herod, he kind of wanted to be the end all be all kind of a guy. Right. Anybody who threatened his throne or threatened his people, he wanted to eliminate. Right. But he did going up against God is a very unwise decision. Right.

SPEAKER_03 45:04

And he was he was willing to kill um babies, basically, children under two years old, right? He ordered soldiers to kill all boys two years old and under around Bethlehem. Um, yeah, and then the next point I yeah, yeah, we shouldn't skirt around that or like pass over that, but um yeah, just imagine being so threatened by a child that you're gonna kill all of the young boys in and around that area, like that that was probably I can't even imagine, tens of thousands of children. I don't know. It's absolutely ridiculous. Yeah, um, yeah, it's sad, and yeah, yeah, very sad. Um, and then I made a note that he was weaponizing information as well. So he used the info that he gathered from uh from the wise men. Uh I think it was the wise men, maybe it was the scribes. Um, I forget, we'd have to look back, but um for where the star appeared, right? I think it was the wise men. They want he wanted to know where the star appeared, and they said uh over Bethlehem in Judea. So he he obtained that information from the wise man, and then he weaponized it um to go kill those children. Um then in verse 19 again is another act of obedience from Joseph. The angel said, get up and go, because Herod was dead. Um so then he returned to Nazareth, fulfilling yet another prophecy. Um maybe that's further down. Uh yeah, I'll maybe just read the rest of the chapter there. Uh so starting in 21, and he rose and took the child and his mother and went to the land of Israel. But when he heard that Arkel Archelus, Archelus, I don't know how to say that anyway, was reigning over Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And being warned in a dream, he withdrew to the district of Galilee, and he went and lived in the city called Nazareth. So that so that what was spoken by the prophets might be fulfilled, that he would be called a Nazarene. So just I don't know if you've been keeping count, I haven't, but how many prophecies are fulfilled just in the first um couple chapters here of Matthew, right? Yeah, they're in like the first few years of Jesus' life, right? His worldly life, I should say that. Jesus is eternal. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. We believe that here. Um in the beginning was the word, and the word was God, and the word was with God.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's pretty interesting to see how how many, like you say, prophecies are fulfilled just in the first little bit of of Jesus' life as a baby, you know. I think that's so cool that um there's these stories, like it would have been so neat to be in Jesus' time, I think, too, just seeing this all kind of come to life, you know.

SPEAKER_03 49:08

Yeah, it would have been neat. I wonder though, too, if uh just if we'd have been at risk of missing it too, like so many did, right? It just we have the privilege of looking back and reading it all in context, but they're like, okay, well, this horrible king killed all these children. What's going on here?

SPEAKER_01 49:34

You know, and then yeah, it even's a lot, I think, in our time too to be. Sorry, I was just gonna say, I think there's a lot in our time too to be thankful for, too, right? Oh, yeah. Um, I mean, we have the Holy Spirit with us, so and for us it's it's different because we didn't physically see Jesus, but we experience him, and we experience the Holy Spirit, which you know, back then I don't think they really got to do that until Jesus ascended back to heaven after he was um risen from the dead.

SPEAKER_03 50:13

No, that's right. Yeah, because the Holy Spirit came upon them when he ascended, if I remember correctly.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

Although, on that point, I read something the other day, again, a little bit of a side note. Uh okay. Genesis chapter one, verse two. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the spirit of God was hovering over the waters. That kind of uh that raises a lot of questions. That could be a totally separate episode on its own because I mean that doesn't specifically say the Holy Spirit, but I'm like, wait a second, what like that's yeah, and it in mine it's a spirit has a capital S. So I wonder if mine does too. There's that. I think mine does. Yeah, mine does too. Yeah, they give me some headings on chapter one, verse one, and chapter one, verse three, but not chapter one, verse two. Of course. Yeah. I'm kind of curious about that though. We might have to make an episode on that. We might have to do some digging.

SPEAKER_03 51:54

Yeah, that is kind of interesting, noticing that it it specifically says the spirit.

SPEAKER_01 51:59

Yeah, yeah. I don't know. That's a tough one, too, because the spirit the Holy Spirit kind of comes in place of Jesus Christ, I think. Because when Jesus leaves, you know, when he ascends back to heaven, he says, You're not gonna be alone, I'm gonna leave my spirit with you. Yeah, that one would need some research, I think, before I could say what my I guess my fair opinion is on that one.

SPEAKER_03 52:37

Yeah. Hey, if you guys have an opinion, reach out. Text us, comment. I'd love to hear what you guys on YouTube. Get in the comment section. Have a debate, fight with each other. I'm just kidding. Be civil. Um yeah, and the the scripture I was referencing, if you guys don't know, if you hadn't m memorized that, um, was John chapter 1, verse 1. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. Um the word is Jesus. Jesus is the word. I know you've probably heard that bird the that uh bird is the word. That's not true. Jesus is the word. Anyway, we'll put that squirrel to rest. That's awesome. Um my yeah, I don't know how to put a bow on this, but that's kind of I think basically my uh 10,000-foot view of this is like David, or not David, Joseph from the house of David. Um he was he was good, he was just, he was obedient, he was faithful. Um that's how we should be. I think often we act as Herod did rather than how Joseph does, and Herod um acted out of fear. Um, he used deceit, he was angry, um, he's a murderer. So I think um, yeah, my main idea that I want to get across with this is there's there's two contrasting views of what um how you can be as a man, and I think we need to follow Joseph's example.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

So yeah, yeah, I would agree with that. And again, for those of you who are listening, I know not everybody listening is um necessarily a Christian or a believer. Uh, and so I think before we kind of end this episode, I would like to mention to you the Christmas story from a Christian point of view. Like we said at the beginning, we just wanted to look at it from Joseph's point of view and kind of how um he was faithful to God. But when it comes down to the real meaning of Christmas, guys, it was uh Jesus Christ being born so that he could live a life that you and I couldn't, um, a perfect life with no sin, to die on a cross and shed his blood so that we could be saved and have an eternity with him. And so for a Christian, uh Christmas is a big deal because without it, uh Jesus you know wouldn't have come to earth. And so we celebrate the fact that he chose to come down from heaven in human form and uh choose to live a life that, like I say, you you and I couldn't live. And so uh that's why we celebrate Christmas, and I just wanted to clarify on that. Um, for this episode, like I say, we just wanted to touch on Joseph's point of view and and how he dealt with the birth of Jesus and just his faithfulness there.

SPEAKER_03 56:26

Yeah, that's right. I've seen uh I've seen some like memes or whatever floating around. Um I don't know if they're like non-believers sharing it trying to be hurtful or something, or if or if they're just believers trying to make a joke, but I've seen like like a manger scene or whatever, right? Picture of a baby uh in a in a manger, and um then it says spoiler alert, he dies. But you know what? Double spoiler, he rose again. So yeah, that's what I want to say about that.

SPEAKER_01 57:00

Yeah, oh absolutely. Yeah, yeah, he uh he lives. He defeated death, something that no one else can do.

SPEAKER_03 57:11

No, that's right. Exactly. So yeah, I think uh Colton, you put it pretty pretty plainly what uh what the Christmas season is about for us as uh believers, and um I think uh it was fun to take a different spin on on a Christmas episode for you guys and talk about uh kind of Joseph's side of things um in the Christmas story. And uh yeah, with that, uh like we said at the beginning, we are going to take a bit of a break for the holidays here, spend some time with family and and get some things sorted on the back end. Uh, we'll get I'm gonna work on getting all the YouTube videos up and plan to have this one up by Christmas so you guys can watch it. Um we'll we'll see how that goes. But um uh other than that, uh yeah, like Colton said, we've we've got a few more fruits of the spirit to go through, and then we're gonna dive into some other topics and we'll be discussing that uh uh with each other behind the scenes and what we're gonna do. But if you guys are listening to this and you hear this over the holidays while we're taking a break, and you have some ideas that you want us to talk about, go ahead and reach out to us, let us know, and uh we'll try and prepare those for you.

SPEAKER_01 58:38

Yep, absolutely. I think uh we're all here to learn and to read the Bible. And if you guys have you know questions, hard or easy, doesn't matter what it is, we would love to be able to dig into that with you and try and answer questions kind of from our perspective or um see what we come up with in our studies. So yeah, absolutely let us know, and and we would love to um even have that discussion with you. Uh, I know we've talked about maybe having a couple guests on the podcast at some point too. So if there's um if there's something you would like to discuss, let us know. And that's something that we can maybe figure out and we can have a discussion with you um on an episode and and have just a couple different point of views on um on those subjects.

SPEAKER_03 59:24

Yep. Absolutely. And uh I guess I think that's kind of all I had. If uh Colton, if you feel up to pray in for us to close us out, um I think that would be.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

All right, okay. All right. Thank you, Father, uh, for this day, Lord, for another day to be able to worship you, Lord, to be able to come uh together for Craig and I to do this episode. Lord. We thank you for the Christmas story and the example of Joseph, just his faithfulness, Lord, to trust you, to follow you. We thank you for the birth of Jesus that we can be saved because of your love, because of the love of Jesus to come to earth as a baby, grow up into a man, and then die a death that he didn't deserve, taking on all sin of the whole world. I think we often take that for granted, Lord, and I just pray for the Christians, Lord, that we wouldn't take that for granted, that we would take that very seriously in next this Christmas season. We would really consider what you gave up to save us from our sins. For the non-Christians, Lord, I pray that you would just make yourself evident to them that they would just feel your truth, Lord, that they would see your truth and just see your hand at work in their life and uh and just in their everyday, Lord. I pray that us as Christians would stand bold, that we would speak the truth, Lord, and that people would um just cling to you, Lord, and and just decide to serve you with their whole life, Father. Uh, this life is short, and I'm reminded of that all the time. I just hope that and pray that for everybody else on this earth, Lord, they would see that too and realize that there's more to life than what's two feet in front of our face. I pray, Lord, as we go from here, you would help us to be like Joseph overall, Lord. Help us to be more like you, Jesus, um, to follow your example and uh to be faithful and trusting and to follow you where you would lead us. We just pray for a good night this evening, Lord, and uh and for this coming week. Just many blessings on the people listening and Craig and I as we take a bit of a break and try to plan for the new year. And we just pray these things in Jesus' name, amen.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:16

Amen. Thank you. Um just uh pray that the Lord would uh bless you guys that are listening and uh especially over the Christmas season. Uh be safe as you travel to visit family. And um again, thank you guys for listening. Uh Merry Christmas, and we'll see you in the new year.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:41

Have a good Christmas, guys.