EP. 18 - If Demons Believe Then What Saves Us?

We tell a real-life story about running out of fuel and use it as a warning not to coast through life unsure about eternity. We open the Bible to ask what saving faith actually is, how grace and repentance fit together, and how we can have real assurance that we belong to Jesus. 
• why salvation deserves certainty and not assumptions 
• John 3:16 and Romans 10:9 as a clear starting point 
• the thief on the cross as proof salvation is not earned 
• why “belief” alone can be misunderstood and how demons fit the question 
• Matthew 7:21-23 and the danger of outward religion 
• Simon the sorcerer and Judas as examples of false faith 
• grace not works from Ephesians 2:8-9 
• repentance as turning from sin not just feeling bad 
• childlike trust and life in the Spirit from Romans 8 
• the “I’m a good person” mindset challenged by Romans 3 
• faith and works from James 2 plus fruit of the Spirit as evidence 
If there is anybody listening, if you have questions, or you wonder how to become a part of the family of Christ, please by all means reach out to us. 

Transcript

Welcome And Why Salvation Matters

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Standing strong in a world that wants us weak.

Colton 0:15

Welcome to the Brotherhood Podcast.

Craig 0:22

Welcome to another episode of the Brotherhood Podcast. My name's Craig.

Colton 0:28

And I'm Colton.

Craig 0:29

Sweet. I think we got it that time. If you guys have listened to the last couple episodes, you know that we've talked about heaven and then we've talked about hell. And then today we're planning to talk about salvation and how we can be secure in that and what that looks like. And what God's word says about that, and kind of what we found in regards to that. And you might have that question yourself as a listener, listening to the heaven episode and the hell episode. You're like, well, I don't know. How can I know for sure that I'm not going to go to hell or that I am going to go to heaven? Or how can I explain to others how I can be secure or how they can be secure? So we're going to talk about that today. We're going to dive into that and have a little conversation about it before we dive in.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Yeah.

Craig 1:29

Yeah. But before we dive in, um, I guess I wonder if this is uh, you know, the Lord working in mysterious ways. But uh I ended up having an incident today that is uh quite fitting to what we're gonna talk about. And what's funny is um you guys listening, usually we record uh Thursday nights, but it didn't work yesterday. Today is Friday as we record this. So anyway, um Colton has some other stuff to do, which is fine. We can uh move like water and make things uh happen and be adjustable and stuff like that. But anyway, so I have a little bit of a story for you guys to start us off here. Um so I it was kind of in a rush this morning, and um so I take off to work, and uh any of you that know where I live, I don't live very far from work, so it's like really like a two-minute drive. Anyway, um so I turn go out of my driveway, turn on to the first main road from the from the stop sign, everything's good. I get like three quarters to the next stop sign, and uh my vehicle starts like losing power, and it's like, oh man, what's going on? And so anyway, I'm like, oh maybe I can just make it to work. I'll just push through, make it to work, and then we'll figure out uh from there. Anyway, I get like three quarters to the next stop sign and just dies. Like, oh no, shoot. Anyway, and I'm like, what could that be? And uh look down at the dash and remember that I have been running on red for the last few days, and thinking um yeah, I'm good. Like, because you know, I don't live very far from work, I don't live very far from church, and I don't live very far from the fuel station. So usually I just kind of put it off and then I'm like, yeah, I'll get it later. But anyway, I said that too many times this time. So run out of fuel and have to get someone from work to come, tow me back home, grab my other vehicle, and then head to work. So, all in all, not too bad. I was only about 10 minutes actually late for work, not too bad. So, um, anyway, all that to say, I thought I was good. I had I was like, oh yeah, I'm gonna I can make it to work and then I'll go fuel up after work. Um, but I didn't make it. So I share this with you, and I think that um it's kind of weird, God allowed this to happen. And I think in the context of this conversation, um we don't want to treat eternity like our fuel tank. You know, um, some of us uh I mean a lot of us, Colton. I don't know about you. Do you run around on empty or do you make fill up at half, or what kind of what do you do?

Colton 4:52

Oh, yeah, no, I if my vehicle gets between a quarter and half, I'm going to the gas station. Usually sometimes I run it a bit lower, but uh I that's something I I don't I've never liked to do.

Craig 5:06

Yeah, I yeah, I used to be that way, but since I live so close to everything now, I've kind of let it slide. Um anyway, there's some of us that run on E, there's some of us that run half, and there's some of us that like you know, three quarters are like, oh, we gotta have it topped up all the time. So uh I don't know what kind of person you are, and I hope um my misfortune made you laugh a little bit, but um, it's more embarrassing than anything, to be honest. But um, I think we need to um we need to not think we've got everything figured out and totally miss it like I did this morning with my fuel. Um, especially when it comes to eternity, like we're talking about here, and salvation. You want to be a hundred percent sure. So, I mean, if my fuel was, you know, even a quarter tank, I'd be like, oh yeah, for sure I can make it to the fuel station after work. But anyway, running on E, you're not sure. You don't know, especially once your indicator stops telling you, you know, 80 kilometers to empty. Now it's just like, who knows? Right?

Colton 6:27

Yeah, so it's kind of like life, you know. It's you gotta be prepared because none of us know when our time is coming, you know. Tomorrow could be our last day, and and like Craig said, if we're not ready for it, then uh yeah, I mean uh there's no second chances if you miss if you miss the boat the first time around.

Doubt After A Real Conversion

Craig 6:50

No, at least with the fuel, I could get a jerry can after work with my second vehicle, and now you know, now I've got a quarter tank or whatever. Um and and I'm good to go. But once once our earthly life is done, there is no second chances. So um with that story, we will now we're gonna talk about salvation. So um I think when we think um so yeah, we've talked about heaven, we've talked about hell. Uh now the question is uh to ask yourself where do I stand? And um, and even deeper than that, can I actually know that I'm saved? And I'll share a little bit of another story here too, just personally, um because when I was younger, you guys, if you've heard my testimony, you know this. But um, I'll share a little bit. When I was younger, when I was saved, 13, 14, whatever it was, all gung ho, all on fire for Jesus, um, getting discouraged from family members because I was I had a quote unquote holier than thou attitude um when I was just trying to you know share the gospel, share what I've learned about Jesus and um the love for him that I now had and that I now knew that I had never known before. And um there uh kind of once I was discouraged and kind of stopped going to church, then I kind of started hanging out with the wrong crowd and you know, smoking weed and stuff like that. And um in that time in my life, um, you know, God was still there, I believe. But I I wasn't a hundred percent sure. I was like, was my commitment even real? Um did I actually surrender my life to Jesus like I thought I did? Um so I had questions. So if you guys have questions, if you're listening to this and you have questions and you're like, was it real? I think that's okay. Um I think that's an indication that you either were saved for sure in the first place, or um, you're definitely thinking about it now, and you can look back, you'll know how you um how you felt and what your commitment was um in that moment. I can think back to it very clearly. Um like I said in my testimony, I it's like a it was like a physiological uh change in me and like a weight lifted off of me. It was it's not explained by anything else, but Satan wants to give you doubt. He's in your ear, um, feeding you doubt all the time, and you just have to not listen to that. So um, yeah, I guess so. When you think about that, Colton, that question, do you do you feel like most people um are confident in their salvation, or you think they're just hoping, or um do they know they're saved, or they just crossing their fingers and hoping? What do you see?

Colton 10:38

You know, I think a lot of people I think a lot of people know they're saved. Um it depends where you're at in life too, because a lot of people go through struggles, right? Like I know for myself I'm still struggling with with certain sin and different things going on in life. And so I find for myself, I often, again, it's kind of you know, it's kind of the way the world portrays it and makes you think about it, right? It's like, okay, well, you know, I have to be a good person. Like, God won't let me in if I'm gonna be sinning or if I'm you know not living up to the standards maybe God set or for the purpose that He died on the cross for me for. If I'm still going back to that, um, you know, am I saved? And so I I would probably answer that as I think a lot of people know they're saved, um, but I think there's also a lot of people who do question that, a lot of people who who wonder about it, and I mean it is a tough one, right? Because the devil's always whispering in your ear, trying to push stuff on you, and you know, oh man, maybe maybe I don't believe, or maybe I did this wrong. You know, for me, the one thing, and this is probably gonna sound silly to to you and a lot of people. Um, but when I got baptized, uh and it yeah, you'll probably think it sounds funny or silly, but for me, it's like when I got baptized, I was never actually fully submerged. Like I never went fully under the water, and so that's a question that comes up in my mind. It's like, well, did it like did I do it properly then? Am I like, am I actually saved? Did I actually get baptized properly and and this or that? And you know, like I said, it's a question a lot of people have. A lot of people are secure in their faith, right? And I mean, if you read the Bible, I think it's fairly clear on what what it means to be saved and how we should act. And I don't think that as Christians we should have that doubt. Um, but I think that's also a way that the devil wins and keeps us from fulfilling the purposes that God has for our life. I'd say oh, 50% probably and 50% I think would feel like they're really saved, but again, I think that's also relatable to like the lukewarm Christian or the Christian that's continually growing, right? Because if you're lukewarm, I mean, yeah, you're probably gonna question it. Um, I forget where I heard it. Maybe I don't know if it says it directly in the Bible, but as a Christian, you're either growing or you're not growing. So lukewarm Christian, I don't think is really growing. You kind of go through this middle stage, right? You come down a little ways and then you get to a point where it's like, oh man, I gotta read the Bible. I need it, like, I need to start doing this stuff again. So you do it for a couple days and then you start going back downhill. And uh, I think it would be relatable to I think to that, actually.

John 3:16 And The Thief

Craig 13:57

I think that's that those are good points. Um I think you're like with your you're wondering, like, oh, what if I wasn't fully submerged, does that count? And and like me, did I actually um was my commitment real or did I say the right words when I prayed, or whatever. It just when you were talking, it made me think of that saying, the devil's in the details, and I think he is, he's in those details, and he is he's pointing them all out to you. So um I think what we'll yeah, what we'll talk about today is um kind of what it looks like. I have some examples from the Bible of people that uh did all the right things. Um they were there, they were there with Jesus, and they missed it. Um and then we'll talk about how uh well I mean the thief on the cross. I don't know if you have that in your notes, Colton. I didn't put him in there, but um then there's him as a as a reminder and an example as well. So uh we'll talk about those things, but uh I think before we get too deep into it, we're like I don't know when we actually started uh talking about the episode. We talked a little bit before we hit record, but anyway, my recording time says 18 and a half minutes, so we're probably 15 minutes actually into the episode. And we haven't set our anchor verse yet. So um, I guess Colton, if you want to head that up, if you have it.

Colton 15:38

Yeah. You betcha. Uh before I do that, I'm gonna ask anyone who's listening to maybe take a guess at what you think it is, because it's a fairly common verse. We've I think we've actually I think we might have used this one a couple times. I don't know if it's been our anchor verse, but I know it's been in a few other episodes. Um but yeah, actually the verse that we're using is uh John 3 16. Um it says, For God's love the world that he gave his one and only son, that whosoever should believe in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Um I kinda it's an interesting thought, you know, because before we started really studying for this episode, actually, I called Craig about it and and we asked this question, um, or I asked Craig this question about believing is is believing in Jesus enough for salvation? And at first I was like, well, no, I I don't really think so. Like I think there has to be um there has to be more to it, and it I think that's a difficult question to answer. Um I'm hoping that as we kind of go through this, it'll bring clarity maybe to those of you who have uh the same question. But I actually did have the thief on the cross in my notes. That's one of the first things I was going to talk about right after our anger verse. So um again, it says, Whoever believes in Jesus should not perish but have everlasting life. And so the point I wanted to make with the thief on the cross, and I'll just read part of it here. Oh, once I get to the right spot, obviously, because I'm not there. Uh, in the same way, the rebels who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him. So the Bible talks about the one thief, how he was insulting Christ as he was up on the cross, and uh and the other one basically looks at him and says, like, what's what's wrong with you? Don't you know who this is? Don't you know that this is the son of God? The one thief, like I said, he he was heaping insults on Christ, and the other one basically tells him, you know, what like what are you doing? This is this is the son of God. We you shouldn't be doing this. You and me, we deserve to die. We have earned this, but this man has done absolutely nothing to deserve being on the cross and taking this. And then he looks at Jesus and he says, Remember me when you come into your kingdom. And Jesus says, Um, and again, I don't know what word for word, but um today you will be in paradise with me. And uh, you know, it kind of took me back to that question is is believing enough? What or how is a man who was never baptized, a man who kind of like Craig had said, a man who never did everything right, a man who never followed all the rules, who didn't um he didn't didn't do, I guess, what you would expect a Christian to do, yet he was saved. Right? Um, and I think he believed, well, I think I know he believed that Jesus was a son of God, but I also think it was where his heart was in that. He wanted a relationship for Jesus and understood what Jesus was doing on the cross for his life and for anybody else who like him had a life deserving of death, but for him he chose to turn to Christ. And so, yeah, I kind of had that in there because I think the thief on the cross is uh a good example, and so many people talk about it, right? Um just because, yeah, a lot of people will say he was never baptized, he never lived a full life where he fulfilled all of these things that we are, you know, supposed to do or supposed to follow. And as we go through this episode, I think we'll learn more and more that it's not about our works that brings us salvation. Um, don't get me wrong, our works are still important. Um, the Bible says we're going to be rewarded based off of the works, the good works we do on earth, but that is not what determines our salvation. Um, and I think the thief on the cross is just a perfect example of that. Um, and you know, about his heart placement. You know, uh one one point, last point I want to make on that is that the thief on the cross, that's the kind of people that Jesus was dying for. There's so many places in the Bible that talks about um rejoicing in heaven over the one lost sheep versus the 99 who are found. You know, Jesus died for the people who are sinners, for you and me, for people who, well, all people, because obviously we all sin and fall short of the glory of God, but it's because of Jesus Christ that we have that connection to the Father. And so when we die, we have the opportunity um and the blessing to be able to spend our eternity in heaven with him, which is a huge part of our salvation, is is I think um just understanding that too. And again, like I said, I think the thief on the cross is just a good example of you know what it means to understand what Jesus is doing and his love in that moment. Right. And for eternity. Forever and ever, amen. Yeah, I don't know if that makes sense. I hope so, but that's kind of the direction I was going with that. It's just uh yeah. What like I think what it means to believe, but also. It's I think it's more than that too. It's about a relationship. Right.

Craig 22:06

And I think, um, I don't know if you've seen any like Jordan Peterson interviews or anything like that. Um, when he's asked if he believes in God or if he believes in Jesus, he wants to preface that with like, well, what do you mean by believe? Because in his mind, which I think is true, if you truly believe in something, you're willing to stake your life on it, you're willing to die for it. Right.

Colton 22:40

Right.

What Belief Really Means

Craig 22:41

So um, I think when we talk about belief, that's the kind of belief that we need to have in our minds. Um, right. But uh with what you said with the thief on the cross and and him believing, and that's all he did, he like you said, he didn't have any time to do any quote-unquote good works. Um I have Romans 10 9, which a lot of you listening probably already know as well, too. But I think it's it's something that we hear early on in our Christian walk, and I think for those of you that grew up in the church, you probably heard it uh early on in your lives as well. And that says, Because if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Um I mean, you can't get any more plain than that, right? Yeah, that's pretty straightforward. Pretty straightforward. So you confess with your mouth, um, believe in your heart, and you will be saved. Um yeah, so with that though, there's a little bit of an uncomfortable, um, uncomfortable question that we can ask is that is believing enough? Right.

Colton 24:10

So here actually on that note, here's a question for you. I've I've heard this a few times, um, but I want to know your thoughts. Do you think that Satan and the demons believe in Jesus and believe in God? Yes. Okay, so then if we're talking about believing is enough to save you, what like, and then that's again that could be a confusing question too, but would that mean that and I mean obviously we all know Satan and the demons aren't saved, but then what does that mean in that aspect? Right, because even the devil believes in Jesus.

Craig 24:56

What's the what's the first section of Romans 10 9? Confess with your mouth that Jesus is his Lord, Lord. So Satan and the demons don't you're on to something, right?

Colton 25:16

The Bible's on to something, the Bible's on to something, yeah.

Craig 25:20

He is revealed to us, anyway. Um, yeah, I had a like a similar question that is like, what do you think people mean when they say that they believe in Jesus or they believe in God? Just believing that he exists, because like like we just discussed, the the demons and Satan believe that they exist.

Colton 25:48

So that's uh you know what I like that question because um I I've asked a few people that uh that I used to work with and stuff, and and what I would hear is I would ask them, like, do you believe in God? And you know, I was pretty young, so maybe I didn't ask the question in the in the proper way, but like, oh yeah, yeah, I believe in God. And their their life didn't um reflect uh a knowing of God, or like yeah, they I think they believe that there's maybe a God, maybe not you know, the God that we believe in, but they believe that there's a God that could have possibly created the world and that kind of thing. Um that's where I think there's a difference in believing and following or being um in a relationship with God. And you can tell too, like you can tell a lot of people when they say, Oh, yeah, I believe in God, but they don't live it. It's like okay, you think someone created the world, but you just don't want to um what's the right way to put that? Come under their lordship, I guess, or become a child of God. Um you know, a lot of us want to live our own way, and I think that's often what happens, is and you know, with believing, I would say that I would probably describe it just as people know that there's something greater that created the world, but they just don't believe that maybe it's the God that we believe in, the one and only God. Right.

Craig 27:32

I think, yeah, there's a lot of people, even myself, when I was younger, I believed there was a quote unquote higher power. That's kind of the language that I grew up with, right? Right um, you know, I believe there's a higher power. It's like, okay, well, what is that higher power? What does that even mean? Right? Um, and it's hard, like, yeah. I'm just I'm so thankful that my grandmother brought me to church when I was very little, and um the Lord used that for a foundation, and so it had followed me through my adolescence and through my teenage years, and um and he called himself to me, and I don't know.

Colton 28:19

Anyway, he God is good. Do you think, Craig? Like, I I don't want to get too personal if you don't want to answer, that's fine, but the way you explained like believing that there was a higher power, did you did you ever want to discover that or dig into it, or did like did you just say you believed in the higher power and that's kind of just where it stayed?

Craig 28:47

I think for me, there was probably seasons. Um like there was a time when that it just that's just all it was was yeah, there's something bigger than myself. What is that? I don't know. People say mother nature and you know all that kind of stuff. Um, but then there's a time of searching as well, and I know um like some of my family had looked into like Scientology and like different um different religions and stuff like that. Um I remember sitting in a Scientology meeting when I was a teenager, and I'm like, what in the world are these people talking about? They're a bunch of kooks. Anyway, yeah. Um, anyway. Um, oh that's funny. Yeah, so that's I figured I'd ask you. Yeah, you probably didn't know that. No, no, I didn't.

Colton 29:53

I don't I don't think I've shared that really before. That's funny. Like I say, I didn't want to get too personal, but I think even for people who are listening, maybe who are in the same boat, um, just because you know, I didn't really I guess I didn't really grow up in that sense, so I don't really understand like how somebody in that situation might look at it or might yeah, understand God, or you know, like you said, a higher power. Yeah. No, thank you for sharing that. I appreciate it.

The Scariest Words Jesus Could Say

Craig 30:28

Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks for asking the question. There's also uh, I know I have I don't remember who it's by, but uh The Kingdom of the Cults is a book, and it talks about all the different world religions and how they're all wrong. Um yeah, it's kind of cool. Um and uh like Mormonism, they say they believe in Jesus, but what they believe about Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible, so Jesus for them is um is a god of many gods, um who is so he's the god of this world, and what they believe is when they if they're good enough, when they die, they could become gods one day of their own worlds. So when they say, Oh yeah, I believe in Jesus too, they don't believe in the Jesus. So that's like the like when you say you believe in Jesus or you believe in God, what does that mean? Defining terms is important, but um, yeah. Uh okay, so I yeah, so this is I'm gonna read Matthew 7, 21 to 23. Um so not all belief is real, right? And we want to make sure that we get it right. Um some of you listening again may know this passage, but um it says, Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and cast out demons in your name and do many mighty works in your name? And then will I declare to them, I never knew you, depart from me, you workers of lawlessness. So there's gonna it says there's gonna be many people that say, Lord, Lord, did I not do this in your name? Did I not do that in your name? Um and my prayer for you guys is that, and for myself too, as I study, is to make sure that I'm not one of those people, make sure you're not one of those people that again with the fuel analogy that I talked about earlier, make sure that we know for sure, and we're not going into it blind thinking we got it all figured out, and then and then Jesus says to us, Depart from me, you work as a lawlessness. I never knew you.

Colton 33:30

That's a scary, that's a scary verse, you know. That uh I don't know, the older I get and the more I read that, the harder it hits every time I read that.

Craig 33:41

Yeah, and it's I think that's a good sign.

Colton 33:46

I yeah, you know, I think we should be afraid of that. Um, I was gonna say uh in that verse too, one thing I've noticed with a few of the verses we've already shared is it's based off of works when they say to God, you know, did we not do this? Did we not do this? Did we not do this? Uh for those people who think that works are gonna get you there, it just isn't. It's not about the works. Jesus loves you for you, He just He just wants a relationship with you, right? You know, um I I think that's one important key takeaway out of what we've read so far is it's spoken about works and how works do not get you to heaven. So I just want to make that clear from what kind of what I've studied and what I've taken out of it up to this point.

Craig 34:40

Yeah, I think it's like with this passage, it's important to note that Jesus is literally talking about people that think that they're in, right? They're wearing the jersey, but they're not on the team. You know what I mean? Yeah, um, and I had a different segue there as well, but now I forget, or like a parallel. I like that one though. They're wearing the jersey, but they're not on the team.

Colton 35:09

Yeah, that's yeah, that really puts it into perspective.

Craig 35:13

You know, they're they're sitting on the couch cheering for the team, you know, go Oilers, go Lakers, go whoever you're cheering for, right? Yeah. But you're you're not you're not on the ice, you're not part of the team. So um my prayer for you guys is that you would be part of the team. Um that you would hear, well done, good and faithful servant, rather than depart from me, I never knew you. Um, those are two very different phrases to hear on Judgment Day. So um Yeah, absolutely.

Colton 35:52

Yeah. Do you think like do you think that would be relatable to I know a lot of people talk about this too, but do you think that'd be relatable to um like the Sunday Christian, you know, the the person who acts like a Christian on Sunday, but Monday morning comes and everything goes back to the way it was before? You know, Sunday's the only day really that you're dedicated to God and doing what he wants, and then the rest of the week it's kind of my way or the highway sort of deal.

Craig 36:27

Yeah, I think so. Um, actually, the other thing I was gonna say was um I think it was a message by Mark Driscoll, and he was talking about salvation, and he said, There's gonna be a lot of pastors uh that hear that, depart from me. There's gonna be a lot of youth leaders that hear depart from me, I never knew you. There's gonna be a lot of worship leaders, um, people singing in the front pew, um dedicated uh husbands, fathers, brothers, sisters. I mean, we're talking well, this is the Brotherhood podcast, so geared towards men, but sisters as well. There's gonna be dedicated, quote unquote, good people that go to hell, and um, they're gonna hear, depart from me, I never knew you. And that is a that's a scary thought. People that have been behind the pulpit for 20, 40 years that are gonna hear that. So it's just like we want to make sure that we get this right. This is the most important thing.

Colton 37:42

Um we talked a little bit about this in youth group a while back, and I think I might have just made this connection. Tell me what you think, or if this is kind of out to lunch. But okay, when you're when you're talking about pastors and all these leaders, I think the Bible talks about how leaders are going to be judged more harshly, right? I think as leaders, like we need to have our hearts on the right path. Um, and so a few weeks ago in youth group, um, I've kind of started doing more of the devotions and stuff in our group. We needed some some men to step up, and so I started doing some of that. Um, and that's why I bring this up. I talked about the rich and the poor a while back, and how the Bible talks about how it's easier for I know we mentioned this a couple weeks ago too, and you had to correct me, and you might have to correct me again. I should have probably memorized this, but it's easier um for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich person to enter the gates or the kingdom of heaven. Yeah, and so I but when we were talking about it, like I don't think it's referring to rich as like financially wealthy. I think again it was about our heart placement, you know, and I think as a leader too, um, a leader in a church, a leader in uh a youth group, um, even like doing what you and I are doing, Craig, I think it's really easy to to let pride enter and um to make it about us, to make it about, oh, look at me, look what I can do, look what we did. You know, just like you said, when when we get to heaven and Jesus says, Depart from me, I never knew you. Um, and we say, Well, did we not do this and this and this in your name? I think that's easy as a leader of a church and um you know, high-up officials, or even like I said, what you and I are doing, to take that out of control and sort of take it and run with it, make it our own thing, make it prideful, make it selfish. This is all about us and not having our main goal be to serve God. So I that's my thoughts on what it means, like with the rich and the poor, like the rich in spirit, and the like, yeah. To me, it just makes me think of um people who have a leadership role. I don't know what like what are your thoughts on that?

Craig 40:21

Well, I think I'm just gonna try and find it here. Okay, Mark 10. Mark 1025 is what Google's telling me. Um I think it's in the rich young man section. So I mean, I think I think it is talking about financial wealth. Um, that's what I gather. But that is a good point, too. You can think you're righteous in your own heart, right?

Colton 40:59

Um, yeah, like I think it does refer to financial to some extent, but I think it in some sense extends past just the financial gain, too, right?

Craig 41:11

Mm-hmm. I think you can parallel it, like you do. I think that makes sense. I I can see how you get there for sure.

Colton 41:20

And may like I say, maybe I'm wrong. I'm you know, I'm still learning a lot of this stuff too. Um, I know the rich man and Lazarus, it talks about financially being wealthy and financially being very poor, and how the poor guy got into heaven because same thing, right? I mean, if you're financially wealthy, you think you have it made and you don't need God. Um I don't know, that's why I brought it up because it just kind of makes me wonder if it's also a heart position, too. You know, being I don't know, just that feeling of not needing God or doing things on our own and pride and you know, all the sins that like to come rushing in. Right. But maybe I should look this verse up and make sure I'm actually uh saying something that's right.

Craig 42:16

Yeah, I think in that in the context, it is it is talking about you can look at it too, but I think it is talking about because they are he's addressing the rich young man, right? Yeah. Then he says it's easier for a camel to enter through the eye of a needle than a rich person to enter the kingdom of God. Yep.

Colton 42:58

Yeah, I just want to look this up because maybe you're right. Maybe I you know, maybe I'm thinking too deeply on that one, which is always a possibility, but that's also why we have the podcast, is that we can learn this stuff together. Right.

Craig 43:19

Um iron sharpening iron. That is right.

Colton 43:42

My Bible points me to Matthew sixteen. Sorry, nineteen sixteen to thirty. The rich in the kingdom of heaven. Oh yeah. Is that yeah, so same thing. Yeah. Uh verse 21, Jesus answered, If you want to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come follow me. When young man heard this, he went away sad because he had great wealth.

Craig 44:26

You said Matthew, right?

Colton 44:28

Uh yeah.

Craig 44:29

Yeah, okay. So yeah, Google did say Matthew 19 24, Mark 10 25, and Luke 1825. So Matthew, Mark, and Luke talk about that uh that story.

Colton 44:46

Right. Yeah, see in all my notes and everything, they do okay, so they do point to financial wealth, so maybe I am taking that out of context. Okay, well, those of you who are listening, I mean, if you want to chime in once you hear the episode, definitely feel free to, but uh I think I will retract that comment then. Because most of this seems to be pointing to financial being rich.

Craig 45:25

Yeah. I think yeah, there is something to be said because we can well, and we will uh I'll actually read it pretty soon here. Um about thinking thinking we got it all right. And we don't. So um yeah, that's good. I'm gonna leave that in there just so you know.

Colton 45:53

Yeah. Yeah, let's do it. Well while you're looking your stuff up there, I'm gonna I'm gonna do a little bit of research while we're here.

Simon The Sorcerer Fake Faith

Craig 46:03

Okay. Do you want me to give you a minute or what? Because I have no nope, you you go ahead. Okay. If you can multitask, I'll just read this then. Um you betcha. So I have some biblical examples of false faith, and some of you may know this story. I wasn't super familiar with it before I started researching for this episode, but uh Simon the Sorcerer in Acts chapter eight. Uh I'll read from verses twelve to twenty four, and then I'll kind of break it down a little bit. Um in twelve it says, but when they when they believed Philip, uh hold on, when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women, even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized, he continued with Philip, and seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed. Now, when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they had laid their hands on them, and they had received the Holy Spirit. Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money, saying, Give me this power also, so that anyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit. But Peter said to him, May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money. You who have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. Repent therefore of his wickedness sorry, repent therefore of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity, and Simon answered, Pray for me to the Lord, that nothing of what you said may come upon me. Um so if we look in verses twelve to thirteen, Simon believes, he's he gets baptized, um he looks like the real deal, right? Um and then in twenty and twenty-three, twenty to twenty-three, um Peter totally calls him out uh because so in my research I found out that uh sorcerers of that time um would if they saw another sorcerer performing um some act of sorcery, they would pay that other sorcerer to teach them how to do what they did. So Simon tries to pay Peter um to show him how to do the laying of hands and make the Holy Spirit come upon people. Um but Peter's like, dude, you don't get it. Like, you think you can buy this? You can't buy this. Um, your heart is not right before God, is what he tells him. Um and then in 24, uh yeah, Peter says, tells him to pray, right? Um pray to the Lord that if possible the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. Um that's in 22. And then in uh 24, Simon says, pray for me to the Lord. So he doesn't he doesn't have a relationship with the Lord. He doesn't want to pray himself, he wants Peter to do it for him. So if you look early on, he he you know, he believes what Philip says, what Philip preached, and then he gets baptized. So he goes through the motions, says he believes, uh but he doesn't have that true belief, right? So he doesn't doesn't truly believe, and he does not have that personal relationship with the Lord. Um so that's what's missing. Um I think I mean so if you look at Simon, the sorcerer, do you think that looks more like religion or a relationship? Oh that's yeah, probably religion. Totally. There's gonna be there's a lot of I'm doing a lot of air quotes today, religious people, right? Yeah, and the yeah, the the scribes and the Pharisees um back in the day, like they were religious people. Um but being religious does not get you into heaven. Um so I don't know if you want to comment on Simon or if you want me to. I I have another one I want to mention as well.

Colton 52:24

Yeah, no, I I think that's a very good point. Um, and I think that kind of goes along with you know the first few verses and stuff that we had spoken about there too. Um I did look a little bit, by the way, before you go to your next point. Oh, yeah, sure did look. It's funny because I don't know why I thought that, but everything I found about riches has to do with physical riches. So yeah, I think maybe I think maybe I was wrong in that.

Craig 53:00

Okay. Yeah.

Colton 53:03

That's uh you say if the listeners are listening in and and you have something to say, or you maybe know a verse off the top of your head that I don't, please by all means uh share it and let me know what your thoughts are, you know, if I'm way out to lunch with that or what. Right.

Craig 53:22

Or share if you thought the same as Colton did. Yeah. I mean, yeah, not uh putting down or anything, but when you said that, I'm like, are you sure?

Colton 53:37

No, and I'm glad you said something. Yeah, no, I think uh yeah, I think I was wrong in my thinking there, so I do apologize for that. But from what I found, it talks about riches being financial riches. So there you go. That's interesting. Also learning, like definitely not perfect.

Judas And Proximity Without Surrender

Craig 53:58

No, that's right. But God's word is perfect, so yes, for that. Um yeah, don't listen to me, listen to this. Yeah, that's right. Uh follow me as I follow Jesus, not just follow me. Yeah, um, exactly. Okay, so I'm not gonna if I say this person's name, you're gonna know it right away. Um, so I'm not gonna do that. Uh what I'm gonna do is just read it. I mean, Colton, I think you know where I'm going next because we kind of talked about it, but right now. So I'm gonna read a couple sections of Matthew chapter 26 here for you guys. We're gonna first go to uh verse 15. Uh let's see. Yeah, and what will you give me if I deliver him over to you? And they paid him thirty pieces of silver. Then um verses twenty-one to twenty five. As they were eating he said, Truly I say to you, one of you will betray me, and they were very sorrowful and began to say to him one after the other, Is it I Lord? He answered He who has dipped his hand in the dish with me will betray me. The Son of Man goes, as it is written of him, but woe to that man who by whom the Son of Man is betrayed. It would have been better for that man if he had not been born. Now you're going to know who it is. Judas, who would betray him, answered, Is it I rabbi? He said to him, You have said so. And then forty seven to fifty. Um while he was still speaking, Judas came one of the twelve, and with him a great crowd with swords and clubs from the chief priests and the elders of the people. Now the betrayer had given them a sign saying, The one I will kiss is the man, seize him. And he came up to Jesus at once and said, Greetings, rabbi, and he kissed him. Jesus said to him, Friend, do what you came to do. Then they came up and laid hands on Jesus and seized him. So um if we're looking at false faith and a false assurance of uh salvation, Judas walked with Jesus. He saw everything, he saw all the miracles, uh, he heard all his teachings straight from his mouth, and he still turned away, he still betrayed him. Um, and I think that's interesting to think about because I've heard people say before, um, well, if I was alive in that time, then I would definitely believe. Like I would have a stronger belief if I was with him, if I could have seen all these miracles firsthand that Jesus did. Judas did, and he still betrayed him.

Colton 57:36

Um which is kind of mind-boggling, but um that kind of speaking about that reminds me of um the story. I think it's the uh again, I think it's the rich man and Lazarus.

unknown 57:57

Okay.

Colton 57:58

Uh just because let me find it here, and I'll find the verse I'm kind of referring to here. But just the way you said that made uh reminded me of this verse. Um right here, verse uh case, so Luke 16, verse 27. He answered, Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers, let him warn them so that they will not also come to this place of torment. Abraham replied, They have Moses and the prophets, let them listen to them. No, Father Abraham, he said, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent. He said to, and this is all Jesus speaking here. Uh he said to him, If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be convinced, even if someone rises from the dead. I don't know why, but what you said kind of reminds me of that. It's like even if we had Jesus in this time, would you actually listen more or would you turn away? I mean, look what happened to all the religious leaders of that time. They all turned away from him, they didn't think he was the Son of God.

Craig 59:08

Right. Isn't there also a verse that says uh like blessed is he who believes and has not seen? Um yeah, I don't know what verse it is, but yeah. Um but anyway, I wanted to note a couple things about Judas here as well, the way he says things. So um during during the Last Supper or during Passover with the disciples. Um so one by one it says they say, Is it I Lord? This goes back to what we talked about in Romans 9 or 10, 9. Uh, is it I Lord? And then it gets to Judas and he says, Is it I rabbi? So he doesn't call Jesus Lord, he calls him teacher, right? And still, um when he betrays him, uh he said he came up to Jesus at once and said, Greetings, rabbi. So I think I'm actually just kind of making this connection now. Is Jesus the Lord of your life? That's the question we need to ask.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:47

I think that's a good thing.

Colton 1:00:49

Oh absolutely, I a hundred percent agree with that.

Craig 1:00:52

Judas was as close to Jesus as a person could physically get. Right? And he still missed it. Um and I mean we miss things every day, we take things for granted every day. Um Josiah Queen has a new song out. I don't know if you've heard it yet. But I don't think so, no. Uh it goes, maybe I'm like Jews Judas, maybe I'm the thief, um, maybe I'm the sinner that nailed you to the tree. For 30 pieces of silver. Um what are the words? I'm gonna look up the lyrics just a second. Um yeah, that sounds good.

Colton 1:01:53

No, I like that question you ask if if God is the Lord of our life. Um along with that, what what does that look like, or what comes with making God the Lord of our life? Because in Judah's case, I mean he turned back to the world above Jesus, he accepted money in place of Jesus, you know, like that's I don't know, that just seems shallow. You know, that seems well it is wrong, and it's weird because when you really think about the whole scheme of things, it's like this life is short and and we have an eternity coming. Why would you why would you betray Jesus and turn away from him, not make him Lord of your life to spend an eternity separate from him? It just doesn't make a lot of sense. No.

Craig 1:02:53

Um I found it. So it says maybe I'm gonna do this, maybe I'm that thief, maybe I'm gonna put you on that tree. For 30 pieces of silver, he ain't worse than me because he betrayed you for money, and I did it all for free. So I'm mad. That song is fire. Go listen to it if you haven't. It's awesome, but it's like it's a wake-up call. Yeah, I'll hire that. It's it's a wake-up call. It's like we can look at Judas and say, oh man, he messed up. What an idiot. But if we are turning, um if we turn away from God, reject um the three the free gift of life um that Jesus purchased for us on the cross with his life, um we are betraying him as well.

Colton 1:04:00

Yeah.

Craig 1:04:01

So something to think about. Um yeah, I think I think uh with Judas's proximity to Jesus, um like the story of Judas tells us about the difference between proximity to Jesus and actually knowing him. Um I think uh I'll ask you, I'll ask the listeners too. Um, you can answer though. Do you think do you think it's possible today to be around Christianity but not actually saved?

Colton 1:04:52

Uh yeah, yeah, I do. Yeah. 100% like we said earlier, you know, it's a lot of people take it as a religion, it's like, oh no, I gotta follow the rules, but they don't know Jesus. So 100%, I think that is uh I think that is the case for some people, yeah.

Grace Not Works Salvation Explained

Craig 1:05:13

Yeah, I think so too. Um and uh so to kind of wrap up this section, so these guys did everything right on the outside, right? They believed, well, believed, baptized, they followed Jesus, they were close to him. Well, Judas was close to him. Uh this Simon um believed and was baptized uh but didn't have a relationship. So um so if just believing and getting baptized isn't enough, then what actually is? That's a good question. Good question. Yeah, so what what is salvation actually? Um I have uh I have Ephesians two eight and nine here. I can get there. Um Ephesians two eight and nine says, For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God Verse nine, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. So this is to say that it's not it's nothing we can do that saves us. It's all about what Jesus did.

Colton 1:07:04

Um I think a a big part of salvation too is repentance. That's one thing I've I've came across in what I was studying too is um having a repentant heart, you know. There's uh 2 Corinthians chapter 7 verse 10 that says godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. Um thing I had come across is as sinners, are we are we sorry for the sin that we did or are we sorry that we got caught? Again, it's all about a heart posture. Are we actually apologizing to God and turning from our sin? You know, that's what repentance is, is turning from who we are and turning back to God, trying to walk away from the sinful lives we're living, or are we trying to continue in that way of living, but just trying to hide it because we're you know we only feel sorry when we get caught. I think that's I think that's part of the transformation part of salvation is that once we receive the Holy Spirit, I think we should want to repent of our sins and want to change. Yes.

Craig 1:08:47

Yeah. And actually, I don't know where it is. I'm just gonna Romans twelve verse two says um where is it? Oh. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. I like that. Um yeah, so what you were saying there just reminded me of that, and I have that in my other notes um to be transformed by the renewal of your mind. And uh I think what was I gonna say? I think when the Holy Spirit comes upon us, um, what we want to do becomes, or maybe I should say it the other way, God's will becomes our will. Like we want to do what God wants us to do. Um that is evident because He changed He changes our heart and He changes our mind, and we are transformed by that. Um, and then yeah, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, uh, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

Repentance And Childlike Trust

Colton 1:10:57

So I just throw that out there a little bit. Um I like sorry, go ahead. No, that's it. Okay, I was gonna say I really like that you brought that up as well, actually, because something I had uh looked into myself was how we are children of God, and so the question for me came up that what does it mean to be a child of God? Uh, you think about little children, right? The the Bible talks a lot about kids, actually. Jesus talks a lot about children in the Bible and how the kingdom is for people such as these, such as little children. And so it's like, okay, well, if Jesus says the kingdom is for people like this, then maybe we need to look at what it means to be a child again. Like, what does that mean? Um, a lot of you may not be parents yet. I know for Craig and I we are. And you know, usually for the most part, when you ask your kids to do something, they do it trusting that you know what you're talking about. They trust that you're gonna keep them safe. Um, whether you're going on a long road trip, something as simple as that, on bad roads, when they get in the vehicle, they're trusting that you, as the driver, being in control of their, I guess, life at that moment, they're trusting that you are gonna get them to their destination safely. And so I think as children of God, we need to do the same thing. Let Jesus take the wheel. We need to step back and go where God calls us to go and do what he calls us to do. And like a child, I think we need to not question that. We need to just just have faith, right? As adults, that's pretty hard to do, right? I mean, you look at Jonah and his story, he didn't listen to God for the first bit. He tried to run away, and then there were consequences for it, and then he decided to listen. And um, I think it's important to be a child sometimes, not to act maybe so much like an adult, but just to have that aspect of a child um towards uh Christ in that sense.

Craig 1:13:19

Yeah, we're something to note though. Yes, we are to be childlike, not childish. Yes, absolutely. I've heard that in a sermon before, too. We are supposed to come to Christ like a child and have childlike faith, but uh we, especially as men, are not supposed to be childish.

Colton 1:13:44

So no, absolutely. Thank you for pointing that out. Yeah, I don't know. Um Matthew 19, verse 14. This is kind of what I was talking about. Uh, the heading on this chapter is the little children and Jesus, and verse 14 says, Jesus said, Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them. For the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these. And so that's kind of where I was saying, like, I think there's aspects of children that are important in our salvation, um, in just the faith and the trust that we put into Jesus. Uh, like I say, as adults, you know, we become more self-dependent. Um, we, you know, as parents, Craig and I both go to work every day. We try to provide for our families, our wives. Um, they work, they also stay at home, they help, you know, with the kids and stuff. And so it's pretty easy to start relying on our own stuff, becoming again, becoming selfish, becoming prideful and saying, Oh no, we don't we don't need God in this area, like we can do this, and then we kind of grab the steering wheel. And then when things start to get a little rocky or shaky, we're like, okay, Jesus, we need you now, you know, and it's not meant to be like that. We're supposed to have a relationship with him all the way through. It should never um never be changing like that. I also have Romans 8. Okay, well, apparently this is a long run. Romans 8, 1 to 17. Once I get there. Okay. So this is life through the Spirit. That's the heading on this one. Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus, the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, and uh, sorry, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh, but according to the spirit. Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires, but those who live in accordance with the spirit have their minds set on what the spirit desires. So that like just that section there, I think, is a good reminder of our salvation. Are our minds set on our own personal goals, our own personal um success, or are we actually are our minds desiring to do what the spirit wants us to do? Do we follow the flesh and sin, or do we try and follow the spirit and want to turn from sin and turn to Christ? The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the spirit is life and peace. So again, do we do we have peace in life, or are we always anxious? Are we always questioning? Um, I think if we truly know God, there should be a peace that comes with our salvation and knowing that we're saved as well. Although the devil does try to get in there, I think there should still be we should know the word enough, I think, to feel the peace of God when it comes to that. Yeah. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God, it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. That really interested me. That caught my attention. Um, those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. Like that's a kind of a scary thought, too. I won't read the rest because that's a pretty long passage, but that's basically kind of what it talks about is just are we are we here to please the flesh or are we here to please the spirit? You know, I know with a lot of the sin I struggle with, I've been praying that God would provide a way out. And there's a verse on that that says, um, no temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind, but he is faithful and will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. And when you are tempted, he will provide a way out. We just have to be one thing that's bit been on my heart is we have to be open to taking that way out, turn down the narrow path and away from sin. That's hard to do as humans, and we all we all fail, we're all sinful, but that is um, I think part of salvation and our faith and walk with Christ is to be able to make those hard decisions too and walk away from the sin.

Why Good Person Thinking Fails

Craig 1:19:04

Yeah. That's good. Um that made me think that I heard one time that like our repentance should be daily, basically, right? Continual repentance, it's not a one-time deal. Yeah, it's not like hey, now I I said the prayer, I'm saved, you know, now I'm done. It's we're supposed to daily pick up our cross and follow him. So um we as humans struggle against the flesh still, and um it's not gonna be perfect, but we the road to sanctification is just that it's a road and you just continue to try and do better, and uh yeah, I think that's yeah, just what you said made me think of that. So um so in in that regard, I guess before we get too deep into what this real faith is, um I think something that a lot of people struggle with, especially people who don't know their Bible and have not ref received Christ yet. They think, oh well, I'm a good person, right? Yeah, I'm a good person, I don't do anything wrong, like I've never killed anybody, I've never, you know, I give to charity, I help out at the soup kitchen, whatever it is. I give to give to the poor. Um there's a couple passages or a couple verses in Romans chapter three um that kind of level the playing field here for us as people. Um says um none is righteous, know not one. Um and then Romans three twenty-three says, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Um then twenty-four actually offers hope uh and are justified by his grace as a gift through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. So that's the good news. The bad news is the 310 and 323 or just yeah, just a bunch of sinners, no one's righteous. But I mean, we have like you have to come to that realization um and recognize that you'll you are a sinner and you're not perfect, and um that like like Jesus says, I did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it, and uh he raised the bar on some of those Ten Commandments, right? Said anyone who looks at a woman with lust has committed adultery with her in her in his heart, and anyone that hates his brother has committed murder. So, I mean, I don't know about you, but I've definitely lusted and I've definitely hated people. So I'm guilty of those already. Um Ray Comfort does a pretty good job of that. Uh he's I forget exactly the questions he asked, but he's like, um he asked people, like, are you do you think you're a good person? People are like, Oh yeah, I'm a good person. Just like, oh well, have you have you ever lied? Have you ever told a lie before? Oh yeah. Okay. Well, have you ever stolen anything? Even like a piece of candy or just taken something that wasn't yours. Oh yeah, of course. Have you uh again, have you ever looked at someone with lust? Oh yeah, of course. Have you ever said the Lord's name in vain, like, oh my god, or something like that? Oh yeah. Then he says, Well, by your own admission, you're a lying, thieving, um, adulterous blasphemer. It's like that's five of the Ten Commandments right there. You're not good. None of us are. You're a lying thieving, um, adulterous blasphemer at heart. So, I mean, it's a it's a reality check for us. Yeah, um uh yeah, he just does a really good job of with his street evangelism. It's kind of cool to watch. If I I mean a lot of you've probably checked him out before, but if you haven't, I suggest you do because it's pretty cool. Yeah, I like that. That's a good point. Yeah, um, so I just wanted to say, like, why do we need saving? That's why we're not good, and there's no one good, none but God.

Colton 1:24:39

So um the sad part about this all is that the world pushes this on people too. So, like we spoke about in our um our testimony episodes, uh, one thing that I I struggle with and that I'm very embarrassed and ashamed of is um pornography, right? And you know, usually with that comes like uh masturbation, and there's all these just like extremely sinful bad stuff, and you know, I've had a conversation with people before where basically they had said, Well, yeah, but if it feels good, then you know why not just do it? You know, or if it makes you feel better, it's like, yeah, that's the false hope that the world gives you, though. Like, and it's not just with that, it's it's with anything. I mean, you look around, like we said with the Bible talking about rich, you know, the rich and the poor. Wow, the world strives to be rich. People want you to have money, that means you're successful. But does it? Does it really? If I die tomorrow, what's that money gonna do for me? It doesn't do you any good. No, you could have three million dollars sitting in the bank, you know. I I watch this one guy on YouTube, you've probably come across his video. Absolutely love the way he lays this out. I don't know, I'm not sure if he's a Christian or not, but I like his theory behind this. So he gets stopped on the street, the guy asks him a question, um, or asks him, can you give me one really good piece of advice? And the guy says, sure. And um, he's like, if you could wake up tomorrow with a million dollars, or if I could give you a million dollars, would you take it? He's like, Yeah. He's like, okay, well, what would you say? Like, would you be thankful for it? Yeah, yeah, I'd be thankful for it. Okay, what if I gave you$10 million right now, but you didn't wake up tomorrow morning? And he's like, Well, then I probably wouldn't take it. And the guy's like, right, so for you, your life is worth more than$10 million. So wake up tomorrow and be thankful for what you have and where you are. It's like, hmm, that's such a good point. You know, the world teaches you that that ten million dollars is what you need to strive after.

Craig 1:27:17

Yeah.

Colton 1:27:18

You know, that the lust, um, money, there's pride, there's, you know, all these different things. And it's yeah, like I say, it's sad because it's getting harder and harder. The the world kind of comes crashing down around you. You know, we as Christians are supposed to be a light set up on a hill to stand out, and that can be very difficult in a world that teaches you otherwise. So, yeah, I think it's important that we read the Bible and let the Holy Spirit and the Lord work through us, part of our salvation again, like we said, is just surrendering to Christ. Christ and giving him this steering wheel to our life, if you will.

Craig 1:28:05

Yeah. That uh kind of goes back to Simon the Sorcerer. You can't pay, you can't pay for the power of the Holy Spirit. It's a gift. No. Just have to receive it. Yeah.

Colton 1:28:18

It's very simple.

Craig 1:28:20

Yeah. Yeah. It's not yeah, it's not easy because you have to give up your fleshly desires to follow him. Um, and that that can be very hard for a lot of people. I know I've heard people say that. Why do I want to go to church and be told every Sunday that what that I'm living wrong and that I'm not doing things the right way, and I can't have fun. Like this is the party lifestyle, right? I can't go partying, I can't go drinking with my buddies and all that kind of stuff. It's like, well, this guy in particular, when he said this, I was like, well, the pastor's not talking directly to you, he's talking what's laid on his heart from the Holy Spirit, and if it convicts you, I mean, if it fits, right? I mean, yeah, yeah. Anyway, um, but I guess all that to say, like now we know we know we're sinners, we know we're not good in our own accord. Uh, we know there's fake faith, there's a counterfeit version of salvation that we can be have false security. Um so what does real faith look like? Um and I should have gone here while we were talking, but because I don't well, while you're looking for that, yeah, I do have something I want to say.

Colton 1:30:06

Okay, based on that question that you asked, what does real faith look like? So I think I would in return ask the question, how do you you react when something doesn't go your way or when something unexpected happens? I think that's I think that's a question that would go along with what does real faith look like? Do we and it's funny, I'll so I'll explain a little bit. Craig kind of knows what's going on, but um for us right now, and this is kind of why I bring this question up for us right now. We're we're looking at possibly uh selling our house. We're in a place where um I used to run heavy equipment, I don't anymore. I love my job, and uh, we're not gonna give up my job. I absolutely love where I work. The people are super great there, and so we're just in a place where the the house is getting expensive, and we're thinking about possibly selling. Um, and so at first, you know, I was all excited. I'm like, oh yeah, God's got this. This is all good. The first few days, I'm like, oh yeah, God's got this under control. I don't need to worry. Well, the last two or three days, things haven't been going as planned. You know, we figured, oh yeah, no, we're gonna we're gonna buy we're gonna buy land and uh just set up a holiday trailer. No, we're we're good, we're good. And then you know, things kind of started falling apart, and it's like, okay, what do what can I do? What can I do? What should I do? What can I do? It's not about that. Um the reason I bring that question up is because I've kind of failed, I think, with my response to as to how I should have reacted when these things came up. And that's why I ask that, you know, when when things don't go as expected, do we do we look to God and say, you know what? It's okay, God. I know you got it. It's not my plan, it's your plan. You know what's best for me, you know what's coming. Or do we kind of like you know, I've tended to do the last couple days, start thinking, oh shoot, well, am I gonna, you know, what can I do? Am I gonna have to do this or am I gonna have to do this? It's like, no, just we just gotta let God work, just trust him. So sorry, Craig. I just want to put that in there as a side thought to your question.

Craig 1:32:44

Yeah, it's uh well, I mean, your situation is a lot, it's a it's a lot to think about. It's a big decision. And uh when you said how do we react to things, I again thought about this morning, my running out of fuel. I could have been mad and you know, kick the I was gonna say kick the dirt, but there's snow on the ground. Kick the snow. Um there was almost dirt till this morning. Right. No, we still have snow here. Anyway, um, yeah, you can get well for me, it's like you can you can get mad at the situation. But honestly, if I think about the situation, I it was my own stupid unpreparedness. I brought it on myself. Um but for Colton, it's like, okay, there's been a career change here. You feel led uh by the Lord to take this path, and it's there's adjustments that need to be made to make that fit, and I think there's a season for everything. Um so it's like hey, running equipment, obviously, you know, you make pretty good money, but you're not home all the time, so you know you do that for a while, make make the money, but now for you, you feel like the Lord has led you to do this now, what you're doing now. And it's like, okay, well, now what do we do? We're not making as much money as before, and we have set our life up in a way that is subsidized from the running equipment job. It's like okay, well, this can't last forever, right? Um, so you like you gotta choose it's like okay. If this if this career path now is what the Lord wants me to do, what are the adjustments that need to be made to make that work? Um, and trusting him in that. And yeah, I think, yeah, I think we have to, yeah, we can get all worried about it and like, oh, oh, do I need to do this? Do I need to do that? But sometimes we just need to you know take a breath, have some quiet time, be still, and listen to the prompting of the Holy Spirit. Because He'll He's speaking, but often we're too busy and too loud to hear it. So um, I mean I'm guilty of that too. I get too busy or get get too loud in my own mind of trying to do what I want to do instead of just pausing and taking some time with God, with the Holy Spirit, and saying, okay, this is what I'm dealing with. Well, first of all, what what are you trying to teach me with this? And yeah, where do you want me to go from here? Um, and I believe he'll answer if you ask. Um, he has for me. And it's it's kind of a like if you haven't experienced it, it's kind of a weird thing because it's not necessarily audible, like you don't hear it, but it's like talk to you in your mind. It's kind of it's a weird, I don't know, for someone that doesn't have the Holy Spirit. It's like, what are you talking about? You're psycho, but it's like you feel it. Yeah, you feel it, and it's like with if your decision is within the will of God, it's like a it's like you get a piece about you. It's like, okay, yeah, I understand this is where we need to go now.

Colton 1:36:45

Um, so it's weird too, because I find a lot of times we make these idols in our life, and sometimes I feel like God calls us to let those things go because they they slowly, even sometimes without us realizing it, they slowly kind of start taking the place of God, and pretty soon, you know, a house or a vehicle, or again, you know, for me these are things I can relate to because yeah, I struggle with them, but soon they take the place of God, and then pretty good soon God is not the Lord of your life anymore. Your house is, or your truck is, or your job, or your family. And sometimes I think God, in those situations, you know, opens the door to basically um get rid of that idol, sometimes, you know, just as a reminder that God needs to be number one, right? There's a lot of times in my life where I was like, I don't think I could ever sell this. Like, I'm pretty attached to this. And then it came to a point where it's like, shoot, I gotta sell it. And uh I'd say sometimes I think I regret it, but honestly, I don't know how I can regret it if it's you know getting rid of something that's taken the place of God.

Faith That Produces Real Works

Craig 1:38:12

Yeah. Well, yeah, and I for me, I've seen that in different business ventures I've been a part of trying to do, you know, working for myself, working from home, whatever it is. I feel like that consumes consumes my mind, consumes my time, um, and takes away from the time that should be spent meditating on the word of God, studying, spending time with him, which I am not perfect at this still. It's still a work in progress. For like that for my own relationship with him, but also leading my family um in that as well. Um, which again, I'm not honestly, I'm not pretty good at. Um, and it sucks and it's humbling when I think about it. I'm like, suck as a suck as a husband, suck as a dad. But I mean, we all do our best, but our best is not God's best. So there's always improvement to do, but to not get to not dwell on that and to continue forward and and to keep trying to do better and ask him for guidance and get ask him for help. Um is the thing to do, I think. Um and then yeah, with our faith, um I think there needs to be action as well, right? Um pray things, and then uh you know you can ask for guidance, but if you don't do anything with that guidance or with the prompting from the Holy Spirit, then you're not gonna get anywhere anyway. Um and with our salvation there will be um proof, and so I mean, even though, like we said, um we don't have a works-based salvation, James 2, 14 to 26. Um it says, What good is it, my brother, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can the faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, Go in peace, be warm and filled, without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, uh, if it does not have works, is dead. Um but someone will say, You have faith and I have works. Um show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one, you do dwell. Um the demons believe and shudder. Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works, and the scripture was fulfilled that says Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness, and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone, and in the same way was not also Rahab a prostitute justified by works when she received uh the messengers and sent them out by another way. For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead. So that was a bit of a longer passage, but um, so I think this can be confusing. We talk about uh believing and confessing with your mouth that um Jesus is Lord. Uh we have the example of the thief on the cross. He didn't have time to give any works or show any works. Um, but I think it's also true that if we have faith, works will follow. If we truly believe and have faith, there will be evidence. Um, I mean, here's a question: how do we balance this with the saved by grace and not works? If we're saved by faith or saved by grace through faith and not works, so then no one should boast. But then here in James it says um faith without works is dead.

Colton 1:43:34

Um see, I think I think you kind of already answered that in a sense because I think I did too.

Craig 1:43:41

I should have just shut shut my mouth and and asked my question.

Colton 1:43:46

No, no, that's good. That's good. Because I think basically, like the way I understand it is that because of our faith, we should be changed. Because of our faith, we should want to do the works of the father. So if we are truly saved, I believe that our hearts should desire to do the works of the Father, right? Our salvation isn't based off of works, but the Bible, like I said earlier, the Bible does talk about our rewards in heaven are going to be based off of the good works that we do on earth. So if we do have faith in Christ, we should want to do the good works for the Father, I think. But like I said, I think you kind of answered it with your um couple notes in your uh verse that you had read there.

Craig 1:44:36

Yeah. Um, so talking about uh works and evidence of your faith. Um I have a couple. I am hearing something weird. Give me a second. I don't know. I don't know what that was. Anyway. Something under the house. Well, it sounded like it was like maybe the dog doing something weird, but then I went to look where the dog was and he was just laying in his bed. I'm like Oh. Okay. Okay. What was I saying? Oh, the having evidence of being saved.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:41

Um I have a couple passages. Like a scratching or what?

Fruit Of The Spirit As Evidence

Craig 1:46:32

Maybe it is a dog and he just stops when I go over there. Um okay, I have a couple passages for uh for evidence of um salvation or faith. Um first one I have is Luke chapter six um forty three to forty five. That says, For no good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit. For each tree is known by its own fruit, for figs are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush. The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks. And then Matthew. Matthew chapter seven verses twenty-one to twenty-three. Oh, we already talked about that. Um wait, why is that there? That wasn't supposed to be there. That's the wrong verse. Anyway, um, but uh yeah, talking about fruit, then I had uh also Galatians five twenty two to twenty-three, the fruits of the spirit. Oh yeah. Which is you think I would have uh memorized those by now? I will read them to make sure that I don't mess it up. Um but the fruit of the spirit sorry that sounds dandy. But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. So um a good person producing goodness out of their heart, um bad person producing evil or evil person producing evil, and then um also the fruit of the spirit should be evident as well in someone who is truly saved. Um that also made me think of uh I don't remember what I don't know what it is, but um you shall. Know them by their fruit or you shall know them by their works. Matthew Yeah. Matthew, looks like a handy dandy Google says Matthew seven sixteen, so we'll see if that's true.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:29

Um did I read that already?

Craig 1:50:39

You will recognize them by their fruits. Yeah. Are grapes gathered from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? I did read that already. Look at me, not listening to myself. Anyway. That's okay. So if you think about it, what does the fruit actually look like in a real person's life? So it I think it is the fruit of the spirit. Um are things that should be evident in someone who is truly saved. Um I wonder this is kind of a hard question, but what are some practical signs that someone is actually being changed? What do you think?

Colton 1:51:38

That's a good question. I would I would say part of the answer would be again their reaction, just how they how they react to certain situations. Um not only that, but how how do they treat other people? Um I believe that people who are Christians, people who have the Holy Spirit in them, should be filled with this kind of love that we've spoken about in previous episodes, but a love for your enemies, not just the not just the people who treat you well, but for your enemies. How do you treat people when you're uptown? How do you treat people when you're having a bad day? You know, do we yeah, are we are we allowing the Holy Spirit to transform us in a way where we still treat them out of love, even though maybe our day isn't going well, or do we just care about ourselves and not worry about the next guy? I I think that I don't know, that's kind of where my head goes first with that question.

Craig 1:52:58

Yeah, that's good. I uh I guess in a way, like sometimes I can kind of get tunnel vision with what I'm doing, and but I again like how do you treat people when you interact with them, I guess. Um recognizing that every person is um one of God's creations, they are inherently valuable, they have been created in Christ's image, and um yeah, to treat them as such, no matter who they are, um is important, I think. Um having uh having a love for the least of these as well, caring for them. Yeah. And uh I think if you think of uh I mean in today's world it's abortion, but um World War II it was the Jews. Um before that it was um slaves, right? And uh so it's like uh different people groups and then even different people in different uh locations, I guess you could say. Because now it's um people don't value life in the womb as actual life and um Yeah, where's your heart on that issue? And if you I mean you can't you can speculate, but if you were, you know, in Germany during World War II, would you have been one that would try to save the Jews from these concentration camps, or would you be one who would have SS on your um on your sleeve, right? And uh with the abolition of slavery in um in the West, would you have been fighting for slave ownership or would you have been fighting for freedom for those people? Um yeah, it's easy to speculate, but again, you you make this argument, like this is probably in conversation for another time, we can dive deeper, but with the abolition of abortion that people are trying to do, um we have a generation of people that just don't recognize the baby in the womb as a human, which makes no sense to me, and they don't think that it has value as a living person. So we like we have a whole generation of people that think that way, and uh it's a hard one, but I just I don't understand, but anyway, that's because I have Christ and I understand that people are valuable no matter who they are or where they are, no matter how big, how small, you know. Well, if you think of Dr. Seuss, right? A who is no matter how small or how it whatever however that goes. Yeah, a person and a person no matter how small. Anyway, we're kind of off track here, but all that all that to say is how do you how do you treat people? Um yeah, so um and so what we talked about with the fruit and the the works. So we're not saved by works, we've discussed that, but I think we're also not saved to stay the same as we were, we should be transformed, right? Yeah, we should be changed. We are uh we are a new creation in Christ. That's what the Bible says, and um that should be evident, and I think um he'll probably listen. I I won't say name, but um, I have someone from my past who has reached out and has listened to a couple episodes um and just sees me uh online, what I share, what I post, what I like. Um they've been I guess they've been watching me for a while, just kind of from the sidelines. And uh they messaged me the other day. We've had really good conversations, but um it's like how in the world did you find Jesus? Right? Like, I know your past, I know your family. What? How? How? And it's uh it should be evident, and I mean it's humbling for me because I'm just doing what I'm doing, and God is using me in in that way. And um I mean he said, he's like, hopefully you don't take offense to this, but I'm like, you know what? Honestly, I'm humbled, and the the fact that God is using me through a screen, you can see the change through a screen. That boggles my mind. Um, we don't interact personally. He doesn't even live by me. So it's um anyway, it should be evident. And I again I'm saying this because I've been humbled by this interaction, not be not to pick myself up, but to to boast in Jesus that he has changed my life and that it's evident to people that um watch me, see me, interact with me. So that's that's kind of wild to me, but I mean God is good. So he can do some amazing things, just so cool, yeah. Um so uh let's see here so I think the bringing it back to you guys as listeners, and I guess for us too, but I think with our studying, we know where we stand. But uh I think ask yourself do you just believe facts about Jesus? Are you you know um I'll just do this? Satan knows this book cover to cover. He knows what's in here. So do you only know, do you just know what's in here? Are you just kind of book smart about Jesus, or do you actually know him? Do you have a relationship with him because knowing about him is not enough. We've seen that already with uh Simon the uh sorcerer and with Judas. So um I think I guess for you, Colton, what would you say if someone's unsure if they're questioning their salvation, what would you um what would you tell them to look at in their life? Like as kind of a benchmark or like how can they know?

Colton 2:01:37

Yep, yeah. I would say started looking at your heart. Are you are you there to serve yourself or are you there to serve God? Are you are you spending time with him? Are you putting time in with a relationship? You know, I think it starts with with believing that he died on the cross for your sins, that he was raised again three days later. Um, if you believe that and you confess that with your mouth and you believe it in your heart, and your life is reflecting the character and the personality and love of Jesus, I think that's where your assurance should come from. Right? Don't be don't be one of those people that um Sunday is the only day that you're you're living for Jesus. Make it every day of the week, you know, and don't be afraid to share the love of Jesus. If you have an opportunity during the week, you know, share him with other people, right? But I would say, yeah, I would say spend time with him if you're reading your Bible, if you're if you're praying and you are seeking to do the will of the Father, then um I would say that would be your assurance in salvation, just making sure that you're not here to serve yourself, but that you want to serve God and His plan and His will for your life.

Craig 2:03:12

Yeah, that's really well put, actually, I think I hope so.

Colton 2:03:19

I did not have that written down. That just uh just happened. Yeah, I kind of blindsided you with that question.

Craig 2:03:27

No, that's good. I like it. I like it. That's good, yeah. Um yeah, I don't think I can add much more to that. It's uh that's that's kind of exactly it. We uh yeah, the first thing, like you said, is is that Romans 10 9, right? You confess with your mouth that he's Lord and believe that God raised him from the dead, um you will be saved, and then the rest will come after that. Because I think if you truly do believe that, you will live your life in a way that reflects that, and you will seek to do his will and not your own. So um yeah, the example of the thief on the cross, he didn't have a chance to um to outwardly show that, but um but his salvation came from his his confessing that Jesus was Lord and and believing that he was God's son, and and uh I mean I guess he probably didn't even live to see that he rose from the dead either, but he would have seen him in heaven because uh Jesus said, Today you'll be with me in paradise.

Colton 2:04:55

So it's interesting too, because he he turned from the world and turned to Christ, right? You have the two thieves, and he says to the one basically calls him in a sense, I guess, calls him a fool and says, like, do you not know who this is? We and the thing is he understood that we as sinners deserve death, but Jesus didn't, right? And I think that's a part of it is we need to understand that no matter what we do ourselves, we cannot save ourselves, we just can't. We deserve death, we deserve eternity separate from God, but that's not what he wants. He wants an eternity with us, and so um I think that's part of our salvation is just realizing that we're sinners in need of a savior, um, just like the thief on the cross did. Yeah, simple.

Craig 2:05:54

Yep, yeah. So um we've discussed heaven, heaven's real, hell is real. Um, but so is real, salvation's real. The invitation to be the invitation to be absolutely sure on where you stand and where you spend eternity is also real.

Colton 2:06:20

So yeah, I want to put it out there too. If there is anybody listening, if uh um like Craig's friend there, if you've been listening and maybe you're not a Christian, but you have questions, or you wonder how how to become a part of the family of Christ, please uh by all means reach out to us. That's that's what we're here for. We want to we want to make a difference um in the world, and we want to help share the hope that Craig and I have in Christ with those who also have the same hope in Christ, but with those who don't have that hope yet either. So if it's something that's been on your mind or you feel uh a tugging at your heart or anything, um we would recommend to reach out. Um please. We would love to even just talk with you for a bit. And um yeah, it it's really important. If you feel that tugging and the Holy Spirit is knocking at the door, uh Jesus is knocking at the door of your heart. Um we would definitely like to see you take that opportunity and and not pass it up. So if you do have questions or want to talk about it, please reach out. We are more than happy to um try to make the time to fit that into our schedules for you guys. Absolutely.

Craig 2:08:01

Yep. Um there is a text us option in the show notes and in the if you're on YouTube in the YouTube description there. Um that'll come straight to Colton and I's phones. Um if you have our number, well, I guess if you're I don't know, maybe you do have our numbers and you're not saved. I have no idea. Um but yeah, if you have questions, if you have our numbers, reach out to us, like he said. Um, you can reach out on Facebook as well. And uh if you are listening and you like what you hear uh with the show, with uh our podcast here, and you want to dive deeper and get into a little bit more of a closer knit group with some brothers. Um, I have created uh Discord and um I think now we're gonna move our uh WhatsApp group that we had. I think we'll move it over to Discord just for uh security purposes. It's a little more secure over there, and people don't have other people's phone numbers, and so I don't know. That's something I felt convicted on. So uh I had uh Drew from our uh WhatsApp group. Um, he's uh a bit of a gamer guy and he kind of went through our Discord pro process there and he caught some spelling with mistakes, so that's good. So appreciate that, Drew. And uh, but uh yeah, for him, he's been in several groups and he said it looks really good. He's excited to be in there, and so right now it's just me and Drew in there. But uh uh if you guys want to be uh part of a closer-knit brotherhood, it's what we're about here is about discipleship. The show here, the podcast, is us teaching, um, but we really want to build this out into something um that looks more discipleship focused and more like man-to-man focused. And um, I think that's important in today's world, and I think it's something that's lacking in our culture, but also in our churches, and um I feel led to do something about that. So if you want to connect a little deeper, I will put the Discord um link in the description as well. So, and if you have troubles, just reach out, let me know, and we'll get you in there. Yeah, uh other than that, I think I think that kind of sums up the this episode.

Prayer And Final Sendoff

Colton 2:10:47

I think so. Yeah. Well, thank you again for listening, guys. Um, before we do go, I will uh close us out in prayer. Um you better. I got this. Okay. There. Okay, let's pray. Thank you, Father, for this day, for the freedom we have, Lord, to be able to do this podcast, Lord. I pray that uh even as we learn and as we sometimes find that uh that we're wrong with our thinking, and um sometimes we stand be corrected, Lord. I thank you for just the humbleness um to be able to learn. I pray that uh our hearts would just be open and that we would realize that uh yeah, that we're not always right and that we have a lot to learn. But we know that we have the Bible to do that, Lord. Um, Holy Spirit, I just pray that you would discern the things that we read, Lord. Uh bring understanding um with what we read. And uh as we talked about salvation today, Lord, that's uh a huge topic. That's a big deal for uh for everybody, and not not everybody takes it seriously. And so I just pray, Lord, that um for those of us who are believers, I pray that we would just find that assurance, Lord, that we would know that we are truly saved, that our hearts would be for you, Lord. Our desire would be to serve you and to glorify you, to do the will of the Father, and that we would live a life glorifying to you and not ourselves. I pray for those who don't know you, Lord, even if there's some on here who are listening, I pray that uh when they hear this, Lord, you would just reach out and grab hold of their hearts, Lord. I pray that you would just start knocking on the door and open their eyes to the truth, Father, that they would see you and know you and love you. And uh I pray that in the future as we um we hope to build this into a bit of a ministry, Lord, that you would just continue to use us in a way again to glorify you and uh and not ourselves. So we uh thank you for again just this episode. Thank you for the people listening, uh for Craig and I both and for the many blessings you've provided us with as well. We ask that you would continue to bless us and bless those who listen as well. In Jesus' name we pray, amen.

Craig 2:13:31

Amen. Thank you for that. Thank you guys for listening. And uh we will I forget what our next topic is, but it'll be a surprise. Surprise. Yeah, supply.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:48

We will be back.

Craig 2:13:50

We will be back. All right, and have a good week, guys. Thank you for listening. See you next time. See you later.