Introduction

In the first episode Adam and John discuss the aims of the podcast, open the pod up for interraction and suggestions, and go on to discuss the craft events they attended in 2025.

Content is positive, friendly and suitable for folk of all ages and walks of life.

We hope to create a kind, safe and hopefully interesting podcast that offers a bit of escapism.

As we discuss in the content, we will be interviewing folk from a broad cross section of the arts and crafts community and shining a light on deserving subjects

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 3:06

Hello and welcome to the latest episode of the Spoons and Tunes podcast. This is John speaking. And in this episode I'm going to be talking to my co-host Adam. We'll be chatting a little bit about where Adam's from, which sparrow that is the Leeds area. We'll be talking about some of the landmarks and the history around this area. And I'll actually put some uh photographs on social media of some of the landmarks that we're discussing it. Which you should be able to see for yourself so that you know what you know you've got a visual of what we're talking about. Um then we'll go on to we go on to talk about his projects, his plans that he's got coming up for this year, a little bit about metallurgy, a little bit better sharpening, which is gonna be a recurring subject that we're gonna keep coming back to with different people because I'm sure every time I ask somebody about it they'll give me a different uh take on it. But I think people are interested in people's sharpening uh system, so we'll talk about that. Uh we talk quite a lot about Adam's history interest, and and he is well uh positioned actually. Uh both uh medieval history around the area where he lives and uh actually right back to Roman history actually. And and it sort of informs how he goes forward and his interests and what's sort of what got him into it in the first place. But you'll you better listen to that. Um so the the tune that's played at the start of this one uh is actually Adam playing his uh banjo and he's accompanied by Mike Craig on guitar, and uh they're actually playing uh a reel called The Gravel Walks. And you may you may pick up some Oh Bub in the background, which is actually the recording was made at um the the uh monthly spoon club that that that's held at um Ellica's Wood near Burrow Bridge, hosted by uh Dan and Liz Watson, which uh it'll give you a flavour of what it feels like actually being there, you know. It's I think it's quite nice having a live setting like that. Um, like I say, Dan and Liz hosts a a very successful actually um monthly Spoon Club. I think I haven't been myself for a while, but uh I I know for a fact that they get a round about 20 people each time. It's it's really popular, uh, which is great. It's great to see people socially interacting, it's great. Uh quite back to music actually. It's quite a passion of mine, is music, and I'm I'm I'm an adult learner, I'm not a fantastic musician or anything, but I absolutely love it. Uh and I I'm gonna put this out, um, and I again I will re I'll kill I'll keep return to this theme. But anybody if anybody's interested in music or they've got they've just got an instrument or they're just getting an instrument, uh as an open invitation, please, you know, come up to me, even if it's you know quietly because you're a bit shy about playing in front of other people. If you snar a few chords, something like that, or even just a f you've only just got the instrument and you want to have a chat to me about it, you know, I'll give you the time of day, absolutely no problem whatsoever. You know, and if you if you started playing, you know, a few chords or something, whatever instrument it is, I'm sure you'll be able to play something and then get your confidence going. But please, you know, and and you can you can actually um approach me on social media th through a direct message or something like that if you want. I I I'll always help people out with music. But I will come back to that, I'll I'll I'll chat more about it, but please, you know, if you if you if you you know that I'm gonna be at a vent and you're into mine, bring your instrument, you know. Um unless it's a bloody concert piano or something, you know. It's a bit tricky to cart into a field at Miller nowhere, but no, uh, you know, please please come up and say up, John, you know, remind me of what I've said, because I'm an honourable person and I I'll give you time of day, absolutely no problem at all. Um a couple of other things before we actually get into the uh chat with Adam itself, a couple of little bits of housekeeping and and and this is ma this is a massive thank you actually to my friend Richard Roberts. Uh a lot of people will know him from his is on the committee of the uh the Bodgers. Uh he's he's helped me immensely by uh editing the uh episodes for me until I actually get up to speed learning how to do it myself. So thank you, Richard, really appreciate that, mate. Good on you. Uh and also Haywood at um Woodsmith's Woods Woods Woodsmith stores, is it? Woodsmith shop up in uh in the northeast. Um Haywood's actually he's he actually has a a podcast studio, but um he's he's given Adam I haven't met him myself yet, but he's met Adam a few times and given Adam some pointers on equipment and what have you. So I'd like to uh offer a thank you to Haywood as well. Thank you, mate. Much appreciated. Any any helps appreciated. We're learning. It's good it's gonna be scratches to start with, but you know, things will get better. Again, I'll say same as I said after the first one, with two Yorkshire guys talking at Yorkshire Speed in this one again. But uh you can follow it anyway. Anyway, without any further ado, uh let's listen to what Adams has to say about himself. So welcome back to the um Spoons and Tunes podcast. And to save on the budget uh for the travel budget, uh I'm actually going to interview today Mr. Adam Ashworth, my co-host, uh which is£2.50 on the bus. This is Captain West Yorkshire, so we've saved the budget for another day. Uh so welcome Adam. Alright, mate. Well, for the first question I'm sure everybody's uh wanting me to ask is what you had for your tea?

SPEAKER_05 8:49

Uh I I haven't had it yet, but I did have a pre-tea snack of a uh ex-Benedict.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

Ex-Benedict? Yeah. Well to me and you what tea is the evening meal, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 9:03

Yeah, yeah. The right way.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

I think it's I think is it a Yorkshire thing? I it's definitely a northern thing. Is it dinner thing?

SPEAKER_05 9:10

Is it lunch thing?

SPEAKER_03 9:11

For anybody who isn't in the UK, or even in the north of the UK, tea is the meal on an evening and it it's nothing to do with a drink tea. Uh and I've had a nice stir fry.

SPEAKER_05 9:23

So that's I think as the Lancashire Hot Pots put it, you had dinner ladies, not not uh uh uh lunch ladies, didn't you?

SPEAKER_03 9:30

Yeah, exactly. Uh to me dinner is is yeah, lunch uh but tea is definitely the evening meal. Uh but I know that are you vegetarian or vegetarian? Now I I I I've got to nod my cap to you a little bit here, mate, because I've seen you in sheep fields in the Peak District knocking up meals from scratch. And have I seen you making a pizza in the wild?

SPEAKER_05 9:53

Oh yeah, with my uni of and that's you still have trouble with that. Yeah, it's great because it's a bit messy, but it's not that much involved more involved than just normal campsite cooking. But yeah, but I think a billion times better, and because it's so much tastier, usually I can corral a few people to come out. Silly corral, mate, mate. Do you make your dough before you go then? Uh you know, I try to basis. Uh it depends how long I'm gonna be there, because yeah, you can make it a few days in advance and then put it in a cool box, and it's usually okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:28

Yeah, but you could make it on the field.

SPEAKER_05 10:30

I did at the uh Bodgers last year uh because like I ran out of something, so I had to go down at Morrison to make it.

SPEAKER_03 10:36

But I am I am seriously impressed with how how you how you make things from scratch because you you're cutting out all the all the A numbers and the you know the um Well one of the things I like to make is pottage, which is just stew really. So I've got that fire pit that I take and yeah just particularly this time of yeah, we're in January.

SPEAKER_05 10:52

No, we're in February now, aren't we? The thing is with pottage, it's a bit like perpetual stew, so just leave it on the fire. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:00

And the longer the longer it's bubbling away at the tip deeper into it.

SPEAKER_05 11:05

And because it's not got meat in it, it's it's also not you know, you won't get botular You probably won't get botulated. Tell you what, mate.

SPEAKER_03 11:13

Shall we shall we shall we just pause here and go in kitchening? My belly's rumbling if you if you hear any noises, it's Johnny's it's Johnny's uh belly rumbling. Right, so that's that our way, cheese sorted. So I've got a couple of little icebreakers to ask you, mate, mate, before we actually get into the meat and potatoes of this here um of this air interview. So so what where where would you consider your hometown?

SPEAKER_05 11:38

Oh it'd be Garth. Although that's an LS that's an LS postcode, isn't it? Yeah, if people don't know Garth, which is most people it'd be Leeds.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

It's Leeds, isn't it? Yeah, it's your Leeds postcode. So uh and I've I've because I know you're from you're from the Leeds area, I've looked this up a little bit. Do you know what what what if if you were telling people what Leeds is known for or famous for or what it's built itself and what sort of what is Leeds known for?

SPEAKER_05 12:05

Oh, that's a Henry Moore? He's a Leeds. He's from Castleford, I think.

SPEAKER_03 12:11

Yeah, he is Castleford actually, yeah, which which is like three miles from where we're sitting sitting.

SPEAKER_05 12:16

Although I'm not an artist at all, I've never really been into I have no idea why Henry Moore came into mind. I think maybe just Well, there's a couple of names that actually come into my mind, but Monopolo Adams as well.

SPEAKER_03 12:27

She she's a Leeds lass. Well done. So when I were looking it up Leeds, uh I mean it it like a lot of places round here in West Yorkshire, it it it's it it it it made its money and it were built up during the Industrial Revolution in uh cotton trade and what have you, and it's largely before hundreds, Leeds was barely a village. Yeah, so it it's famous for flax, forging and engineering. There's a lot of industry went around here, weren't there? Mining and uh other industries that they're associated with is with very mine heavy, the mining heavy uh transport, rail and what have you. And it's it's obviously um uh it's a large market trading area as well, isn't it? Uh and so so the two names that spring to mind if somebody says what's Leeds famous for to me, Marks and Spencer's. Oh of course, yes. Marks and Spencer's is where the where the original uh stall was. Was it on Kirgit Market? I didn't think they started on Kirgit Market, maybe.

SPEAKER_05 13:22

Marks and Spencer still had a stall in the market, but maybe they don't anymore, but definitely used to not that many.

SPEAKER_03 13:29

I think that they did start on and and and and for anybody that's not from Lees, if you do visit Lees, architecturally it's it's a fantastic space, isn't it? The the Kergit Market.

SPEAKER_05 13:39

It's worth it it's worth a walk round. Maybe not the new 1980s hall.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

No, but but it's still it's still I mean it's the vibe and everything, it it's it's a nice place to visit.

SPEAKER_05 13:49

Great place to get some food from.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

So the other pla the other the other name that r uh that came to my mind when I was thinking about Lee's was Tetley's. Ah yeah. So they're they're the two big names that I I associate.

SPEAKER_05 14:07

There's a pub there now, you can go in. Uh be in there if you need to. What where the brewery was. Yeah, yeah. So I think they knocked down all of it, bar one building.

SPEAKER_03 14:15

It was a massive brewery in Lee's, wasn't it? The Tetley Brewery. Um quite a famous uh brewery within the UK.

SPEAKER_05 14:22

Although I still prefer uh uh Yorkshire tea over Tetley's.

SPEAKER_03 14:27

So so while we're talking about Leeds and mate, I mean there's one particular place I'm sure that you spend a lot of time at, yeah. And that would be the uh Armoury's, but we'll talk about that a little bit later. But I w while we're while we're talking about uh Kergit Market, if I would I mean I know Leeds quite well because because I I live very close to you as well, don't I but although my hometown is Wakefield, which is famous for rhubarb! The rhubarb triangles you start to say that's that's probably the the the I mean obviously we've got mine and everything, but it it's it's USP is probably the rhubarb triangle.

SPEAKER_05 15:02

Whereas when I think of and this is me going into history nerd, I think of Wakefield, I feel think of the uh chapel on the bridge. Oh yeah, the the Chantry Chapel.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

Yeah. So uh but so yeah, n near the near the Kirgit market, which involves reference, if I was advising people to look round Leeds, you might throw some in here as well. But uh whenever I go into the corn exchange, have you have you been have you had a have you looked at the architecture in in there, mate? It's absolutely fantastic. I don't know if it's um a a Benell Benell structure actually. Uh I'm not hundreds sure, but it's an absolutely amazing space. Uh it used to be like a c uh corn trading uh house didn't it? Yeah, but it's it's it's absolutely I I'm I'm every time I go in there I'm I'm I'm struck by how how amazing the architecture of it is. And the other one, I don't know if you know about this one, mate. The the Thakra uh medical museum.

SPEAKER_05 15:58

Got traumatised there as a kid because they used to have a video or uh it wasn't a graphic video, but it was the the sound and some clips of like a reenact yeah, reenactment of a little Victorian girl getting her arm caught in machinery or something and having it amputated.

SPEAKER_03 16:14

That reminds me that reminds me of an impression I used to do when I was a kid. It were like, what's this? Somebody having their arms on off. But have you been round it then? I went round there and I I I w I didn't have big expectations actually, but it were fascinating. I thought it was really really interesting. Uh is it still a medical training? Is it still a training system?

SPEAKER_05 16:37

It's next to the hospital. Yeah. Okay. I think it's opened by the hospital, maybe. I don't know. So it's it was there when I was last there, where I got uh infatuated with a Myford lathe. Uh you might remember it, I've got this tiny little Myford uh I don't think it's Myford Dunbar, but you know, like little desktop. Engineering lathe, yeah. And they had one as an example of what uh medical apparatus used to be made of. And I saw the thing and I thought, I've got to have one of those. And then not that much later I bought one, and now I'm thinking, I've got to get rid of that thing.

SPEAKER_03 17:15

So that's that's called the Thackeray Museum, and it's it's named after Charles Thackray. Charles Thackeray, who who made his name from making pharmaceuticals and he m he made um uh prosthetics and things like that. Ah, that explains that. That that explains hence the hence the lathe you're talking about.

SPEAKER_05 17:33

Yeah, it's right next to St. James's Hospital in Hare Hills.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

Yeah, and it is a worth a visit again. You know, we've just referenced two or three places there. We will talk to talk about the armories later. I'll give you plenty of chance to talk about that. So any famous celebrities from Laith. We've got so I I will I will start you off here. I'm from Wakefield, we've got one celebrity, Jane MacDonald. That's it. So we've got nobody else.

SPEAKER_05 18:00

Uh don't I don't exactly I said Nicola Adams, I've said Henry Moore, which I suppose you could equally claim is as much as a way to Castleford. We'll share him, we'll share Henry. Castleford is a WF postcode, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 18:13

It is.

SPEAKER_05 18:14

Uh oh well was because.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

Well the ones that I when I the ones that I were looking at, that there are any big, big names that you'd think about. Alt J formed in. Marco Pierre White to the famous, don't you? Marco Pierre White. Damien Hurst. Oh yeah. Cutting cows in half, back to Medico. Uh Scary Spice Mel B from the Spice Gilchie's family's. Keith Lemon.

SPEAKER_04 18:38

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:40

Uh what's what was he? Uh a bow selector, weren't he? Uh this is a this is this is a UK TV character.

SPEAKER_05 18:46

Well he's not been especially well, not to me, it's especially relevant for a good one. Um think largely 29.

SPEAKER_03 18:53

Those are those are the types of celebrities we found for Leeds. So yeah, so that's that's uh that's us. Right, I've got one last question, mate, before we get before we start talking about serious things. Um what I'm doing, whether you like it or not, I'm getting a a playlist together. I'm gonna I'm gonna each time I interview someone, I'm gonna get I'm gonna ask them to give me a song to put on my playlist. Either a song or a tune that means something to them or that they that they recommend. Either your favourite one or one that you'd suggest for my playlist, please. God, there's there's a few it could be. So I'll tell you what mine is. And you can you can play on guitar actually. You have a you've played it to me on guitar or on campfire. Uh Street Spirit by Radio Ed.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

Rosalf.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

Oh yeah. Yeah. I always refer to that. If I were giving somebody one song on my desert island, you know, if I were only allowed one tune to check on my desert island disc, I'd have that one. I think I'd like to have my guitar and play my own songs like that.

SPEAKER_05 19:57

I I think some other people might want to claim this song. It don't matter. Yeah. But well, we all know my love for the Mary Wallopers, but it's not them. Alright, okay. Because I really enjoy their songs, but I don't think like at a deep down level, like I'll always listen to them, but I think uh it'd have to be one of Johnny Flynn's songs. And I I reckon it I don't know, there's quite a few, but I think, you know, the generic one would be uh detectorists.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

Okay, we'll have that.

SPEAKER_05 20:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

And I Can you play that on? I think you can. I think I've heard you play that on the guitar.

SPEAKER_05 20:30

And I think especially that and the TV show Detectorist.

SPEAKER_03 20:34

Which I haven't seen yet, which everybody kids. No, not yet.

SPEAKER_05 20:37

It's so amaz it's such a it's like comfort food for TV. Yeah, I've heard that. But also it's more it it's more than that. It's not just generic stick it on thill some time. So so it's basically it's just like it's uh Yeah. Uh in a unoffensive Yeah, yeah. It's an insight. It's basically about a small group of people with a really niche hobby. Oh and they're all really like Garvin Sponge. Yeah, yeah, they're all really all really weird and quirk.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

And esoteric. Yeah, exactly. So uh just as a reference, uh we we keep we keep r coming around in circles. Now, to get to Adam's house from my house, I've had to come up something called the Mary Panel. That's an interesting story about Mary Panel. But um but anyway, I've had to come up the Mary Panel, which is part of the the Ridge Road, which is a Roman road that runs uh up through the centre of the of the of the of England. And when I was when I was a coal miner, there was a guy, I think it I don't think he lived near here.

SPEAKER_05 21:39

But he used to be made it.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

Well, no, he used to come he used to come metal detecting round near Alaton Bywater, which is very it's the next village to you, isn't it? And but it he used to bring uh lots of sort of coins. I mean, when to say that the two thousand year old well, two and a half thousand year old, these coins, there's so many of them that's that's Still you know under the under the fields round here that they're not worth very much, but I'm fascinated when you to have it in my hand, something that's so old.

SPEAKER_05 22:07

Well, there was actually a Roman cord home found not too far away from here. I shan't say where because it's all hush hush. But but it will have been up because it's on the the ridge road into the and then up in Garforth, um Billy uh Billy Watson was on the dig at there, and he's the one who put his spade not a spade through but found the uh uh late Roman slash early Anglo Saxon lead coffin, which is super rare. Did it? I didn't know that, I don't know. Yeah, but it was in it was on show at Leeds Museum as well. Um and uh yeah, a a lead coffin was dear.

SPEAKER_03 22:48

And this is all this is all this is all within half a mile of your house, isn't it? Maybe a bit more than that. It's very close. Well, yeah, it's not much more, is it? You know, uh the the Ridge Road is literally the end of your street here. Yeah. Part of it anyway. Yeah, so that's bizarre. That's where we are. Um we've just off camera we've just been chatting as well about um Touton, which is a village what is it, about about five miles from here? Maybe about back, yeah. Yeah, which was uh the scene of uh a battle with the uh Wars of the Rose, wasn't it, between the houses of York and Lancaster. Yeah. Uh what year was that?

SPEAKER_05 23:24

1461.

SPEAKER_03 23:25

1461, you're right. I've done my bit of research and you're right. And it's the bloodiest battle in English history. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:31

Well, I I think m caveat that with allegedly.

SPEAKER_03 23:34

Allegedly.

SPEAKER_05 23:35

I mean, it just pr probably was, but you know.

SPEAKER_03 23:38

The reason I'm referencing it, Adam, is because you know, we we we from the intros we know that you're a blacksmith. And I was just interested I I don't know this and the answer to this question actually, whether what came first for you, the the the it's interesting the historical uh battlefield tools, if you like, weaponry or the or or the or the the smithing, the forging definitely the the the um The history side history side because I've been doing archery since I was absolutely tight.

SPEAKER_05 24:09

Maybe 14 I think I started archer, maybe a bit younger. And one of the archery groups I used to go was the uh Palm Sunday archers because the battle took place on Palm Sunday. Um and yeah, I used to go up there, and some of the people who went up there had like huge strong bows or or crossbows. Well they were re-enactors what well that's where the crossover was. Some of them were reenactors. So I slightly started getting involved with that. I don't do reenacting these days. So they were competent peting uh. It wasn't you just turned up on a Sunday morning, plink some arrows, and let's go have a pint in the pub at lunch.

SPEAKER_03 24:49

Right.

SPEAKER_05 24:49

Uh obviously 14-year-old needs not having a pint i in the pub at lunch.

SPEAKER_03 24:54

So you start so you you came from the historical interest in the m the m metallic uh uh remnants and what have you, to to wanting to get it get So did you make were the first things that you made like swords and axes, you know, battle axes or Well no, I think from archery and then I started trying to make my own bows and then that went into green woodworking. So you meant so you made the bow the the the wooden bow before okay.

SPEAKER_05 25:21

Well tried and never did. Yeah, yeah. And then yeah, that went into woodworking uh green woodworking blacksmithing. Right. And then I can see an arrowhead there.

SPEAKER_04 25:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:30

Well, there's there's an axe head right behind you, which uh is the kind that they'd have at Towton. Right. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Is that a battle axe, huh?

SPEAKER_03 25:38

Yeah, yeah, right, okay. Yeah So that's of that that's of the 15th century period then?

SPEAKER_05 25:42

Yeah, okay. Uh Bector Corbin is what they call it, or or b beak on the crow, and it's got it's got that weird like uh crow beak kind of shape. It does, it does. In fact, you can even see but it does look like a raven it looks like a raven beak from there's a taxidermy buzzard right next to it in the same pose, and you can see how the beak Yeah what yeah, buzzard, yeah, yeah. Sorry, I'm getting confused. But yeah, that it does like a raven's bill, isn't it? Yeah, but that whole shape is and I've tested it on a on the a scrap card before because you whack something as hard as you can, it punches a huge hole, but it bounces straight out. If that was straight, if it was a straight taper, it'd punch a big hole and then it gets stuck.

SPEAKER_03 26:26

Stuck in it, alright, well that's interesting. Yeah, and so so what what I So that's steel, that that' uh and and and and contemporaneously the the would have been there would have been using steel with carbon in it, yeah?

SPEAKER_05 26:41

Probably what steel makes so nowadays you get steel which is a cast, uh, and it was largely I think I've been watching some Didna stuff, so I've learnt this. And it's I think called the Bessemer process, which was invented invented in the 70s. I'm aware of Bessemer for the 70s, maybe 1800s, and that was uh uh how to make property's a furnace, isn't it? A blast furnace, yeah. But before then, what you had to do was get your iron ore and then melt it down into a big glob, it looks horrible, and then you whack it lots of times to make it nice and homogeneous. That's wrought, I think raw. It is and this is this is in the 15th century. Yeah, you'd make bloomery iron, make that into raw iron, I think, just by flattening it, and then to what you do is you cut it up into tiny little plates, probably, put it in a canister, uh fill it with charcoal and like bone powder, cap that off, put it back in your forge, heat it up, and then you'd carbourise that, that becomes blister steel, which is the centre of it is still soft wrought iron, but the outside has carbon it uh carbon being what gives it a strong edge. And then you'd forge well all of that together to give you sheer steel. I may have got blister and shear steel the wrong way around, but don't. What is it is is the steel impressive?

SPEAKER_03 28:07

Is it is you know compared to the steels that I know I know w we've got all sorts of different uh it's not just carbon that's added, is it? There's all sorts of stuff added to to give to give tools steels.

SPEAKER_05 28:19

I don't know, I've never used it.

SPEAKER_03 28:21

Uh because you're not aware of the metallurgy of it. No one's making it because it's gonna take it to bits and yeah, right, okay.

SPEAKER_05 28:28

So I I don't know, it was good for the time.

SPEAKER_03 28:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:31

Where how it compares to modern steels, I would guess probably not as good.

SPEAKER_03 28:36

That leads me on to my next question, mate, because uh I'm I know nothing about metallurgy. When I when I when I first started uh in in the mine industry, I went to college and we learnt about I just I remember one of the first things we did were properties of metals, uh malleability, durability, brittleness, dure uh hardness, uh and I thought I never thought it'd be interesting, but you know, useful to me, but now I'm thinking, oh maybe it is useful because uh what sort is the if you were i i i i as a layman what sort what should I be looking for when I'm looking for tools uh you know steels into i i is are are they are they all consistent nowadays or is there stuff to avoid or what are I not so sure.

SPEAKER_05 29:22

So I think um For instance, I've I know um Mauri used to do stainless steel yeah yeah but there's I think if you boil it down you get mild steel which won't hold an edge. You've got stainless steel which doesn't rust as much. So it's very good in like you can Does it hold an edge? Uh well that's the thing, it doesn't hold an edge as well. I think the proper I think it's chromium and maybe the Nadian in it that make it uh rust resistant. However, perhaps it's those or maybe it's something else or a lack of something which makes it less able to hold an edge. And uh yeah, I've definitely noticed this um because I've got some carbon steel kitchen knives that I've made and those just stay sharp forever, right? Whereas the stainless ones you chop something once.

SPEAKER_03 30:15

So what's what's the trade-off? I know it y you can add too little or too much k carbon. Is there a point where it becomes brittle or too hard to share? What what is the trade-off when when when when you're looking at steel? For a lay on in layman's terms, you know.

SPEAKER_05 30:33

Yeah, so low carbon steels um I think maybe you typically will use in axes. Right. I think maybe just because they're softer to forge, so in an axe it's easy to work. Okay, yeah, yeah. And the other thing with an axe typically especially it doesn't have to be particularly sharp, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 30:50

It's splitting axe, it doesn't have to be particularly sharp.

SPEAKER_05 30:54

Yeah, exactly. And then you get into uh a little bit more carbon, so the stuff I use for my knives have I think it's 0.8% or maybe 0.08%. I can't remember which one. Right. There's an eight in there somewhere, it's definitely not eight percent. Um.08. And then like that, you can still use it for axes, uh in knives, it's very good with, and then you go higher than that, and then yeah, you're getting a little bit too brittle. I can't remember what percentage pig iron. Well, that is quite brittle into pig iron. Exactly. I think and cast iron. Cast iron, yeah. I think maybe that's they're good, they're good in compression, but I want to say 1%, but that's not research. It just made up on the spot.

SPEAKER_03 31:39

So I I don't know. So the sweet the the the a sweet steel for for a knife is enough carbon to hold an edge, but not make it brittle so that it's that it'll crumble.

SPEAKER_05 31:49

It's not just that which controls because there's hundreds of different uh tool steels out there which all have different amounts of yeah, chromium, vanadium, uh different, yeah, different elements. Different alloy, manganese, that's another one, um different alloying elements.

SPEAKER_03 32:10

And what and what and which which ones do you use, mate?

SPEAKER_05 32:12

What's uh what uh well I really like to use one called Ian 42J, which is the British standard name for it. It's very similar to what Americans use and is more widely known as 1080.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

Um Is it is that a con is it is that a consistent I I remember going down to Nick's place, Nick Nick Westerman, who was who was a mentor of yours, and he he always did like a a batch test. Uh he he'd do like a test on on if he got some even if it from same supplier with same, you know, supposedly the same EN, whatever number on it, uh he'd uh he'd do a he'd do a hardness test and a quenching test just to just to test that batch to see what to you know except some steels are made in different places, so like there's uh some steel that I buy comes from Germany.

SPEAKER_05 33:02

My same supplier gets some from India. I think some's probably made in China.

SPEAKER_03 33:08

Uh some might be made here, but I th yeah, I think I think we do I think in Sheffield they still do some uh specialist tools.

SPEAKER_05 33:15

No, I don't think it's an awful lot of people. When you think about it's disappointing.

SPEAKER_03 33:18

When you think about how we used to supply the world with high quality steel, it is.

SPEAKER_05 33:26

I won't won't say where, but I think some of these places abroad the um it's less controlled as to what goes in. But again, I've not been there. This might all be um hearsay, it might might all be wrong.

SPEAKER_03 33:43

So so getting back to to you as a blacksmith then, uh Adam. Um I know a lot of people will know you from making slide knives. I think I think I think for quite a while that were your only product line, weren't it? You know, different lengths and straight straight slide knives where you've cut your teeth, haven't you, and and and develop your own uh handle patterns and things like that. But uh and I I watch you know, I see you quite a lot. I see you, Oscar and and James.

SPEAKER_05 34:09

You were there the first time ever forged a knife. Was I? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

Where was I?

SPEAKER_05 34:14

Oh, down at next slide. Was it? Alright, okay. That was the first time I'd ever forged a knife.

SPEAKER_03 34:18

So you've come a long way since then. That'll that'll have been about seven or eight years ago, something like that. 2018. Yeah, so literally, yeah. Eight eight years ago, yeah. Eight years ago this time. Uh but now uh I'm like I say I'm watching I'm watching you develop as a as a as a blacksmith and you you've you're adding new lines to your product product thing. So just tell me what's the name of your business and um right, so yeah, I trade under Ash and Iron.

SPEAKER_05 34:42

Ash and Iron. Um uh that that was just to avoid uh d being under my name. Uh I I don't know, it didn't quite sit right, but then I know, but uh yeah, what what am I doing now? So yeah, there's a straight knives, uh those are staple. I've started doing spoon carving knives. That was two years ago. Spoon hooks, yeah. Yeah. Left and right spoon hooks, yeah. And last year I started doing some scorps. Yeah. Which which is a which is a complete loop. Complete loop, yeah. Yeah, I I enjoy those a lot. But they're a fact and I think the most pleasing process of making those is once we're done in testing them, because they make especially with a like you know, a handle about a foot long, they make really nice chips as you like lever it over. I've I really enjoy that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:35

Um and then mo more recently you've been making some gouges, haven't you? Yeah, some shrimp sock gouges. Socket. Which I'm I'm I'm impressed with. I know um Oscar Oscar when we skip saying Oscar, we're referring to Oscar Rush, who we'll no doubt speak to in the future. But but he he he's making some nice sockets, they're so clean, aren't they? I think I think I mean I know I know you guys sort of collaborate together, you you bounce off each other, don't you? Uh I think are you particularly in touch with James Wood? Well, yeah, well the three of us and Oscar talked to each other quite a bit.

SPEAKER_05 36:11

Yeah. Uh and yeah, as you said, bounce ideas off each other.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

And and I and in fact, I think when I came up to your workshop halfway through last year, I think James was here because he'd I think I had he got a it'd a power outage or something, or it you're having to use your workshop anyway to to get a job done for some reason.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

Yeah, I forgot.

SPEAKER_03 36:29

Maybe his ammo were out of commission or something, but but I think it it's really nice, you know. As as as woodcarving, green woodwork seems to expand exponentially with interest, with pe with like mainly you know, white-collar people wanting to do something, you know, uh tactile, uh the demand for tools uh uh has exponentially grown as well. So there's you know there's there's a big market for you.

SPEAKER_05 37:03

There's two ways about it, uh like say no or yes and help him. And if someone is driven to do something, they will find a way to do it. Yeah, and I think they'll have a lot more respect for you if you help them and guys will. I found this with like James and Oscar, for example. It's a symbiotic relationship, isn't it? We all hate uh hate help each other, so Freudian say it's like being married, isn't it? And then we just stay respectful of like Oscar does his axes, like James also does different axes, and like um, and like bill hooks and things for hedge layers, I do my straight knives, and like I wouldn't mind if they they did stuff like me, and I'm sure they wouldn't massive enough.

SPEAKER_03 37:47

And vice versa, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:48

Vice versa, but you know, we all just like respect each other and then help each other out. Like we forged those poppies of uh two two yeah, two years ago. Was it two years ago? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that, yeah. And uh yeah, that was that was really nice.

SPEAKER_03 38:03

That was really nice to see though the four of you involved with that, weren't they? Because Nick came up as well, didn't he? Did you did you were you all in James's workshop for that? I thought you were all central in James's James's down in Nottingham, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 38:14

Yeah that was really uh so not because all my work I do on my own. Occasionally I'll have one person in the world.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

Well, it is quite a solitary lifestyle, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 38:24

And especially whenever I have someone in, it's very rarely someone who I can trust entirely just to get on with the day. Whereas down there, yeah, there was four of us, and we all knew what we did. We didn't have to check on each other, yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, to be part of what felt like a workshop. Oh good.

SPEAKER_03 38:41

Anything like that's great, mate. Yeah, so so that's your product line, uh, and it's developing all the time. I know that, mate. Uh now you I know you forge, you forge uh blades, don't you? But you also um laser I get some laser cut as well, don't you? Which to make it more affordable and pretty much, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:00

I mean, like if you uh look at it objectively, there's not much difference in the lasers and forge is there not, right? Very similar metals, um they work work equally the same. But to get uh a forged one to the same point in a laser cup one, yeah, I've got to forge it from a bar, I've got to grind it to that shape, and all that takes time and the braces um it's yeah, it's just a lot easier just to pick.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

So the product the product at the end is very similar then, uh but but obviously you can do a bespoke shape, can't you, if you if you're hand forging rather than.

SPEAKER_05 39:40

Yeah, and the forged ones also have a distal tape around, which is the biggest difference. So the bevels are smaller at the tip, so yeah, you can detect the curls and things like that.

SPEAKER_03 39:49

Right. But but it is it it it it ends up being a more sort of for for people on a budget, you can you you're able to offer them something that get get gets them started. Now, uh while we're talking about your knives and that, mate, um it's alright you sending out a lovely sharp knife and cuts through paper, this that other, but I always think that a knife's only as good thereafter as you are at sharpening it, basically. And I think a lot of people forget that, don't they? Unless you live next door to Sean Elman and and you're really and you you're good at buy buying people pints, you've got to learn how to sharpen. Now I'm I'm the world I'm the world's laziest for sharpening. I'll I'll hold my hands up. Uh so but I have got I I think is it it's fair to say, isn't it, that you don't need to go to mechanical sharpening as long as you keep honing and like pieces hollow grinding an awful lot, but I've never really got on board with that.

SPEAKER_05 40:44

I think the best way for sharpening I found is uh cheap diamond stones uh and wet and dry paper. Now the diamond stones they don't have to be cheap, but I found if you like dropped your axe or your knife has got a nick in it from a nose.

SPEAKER_03 41:01

Yeah, so you've got to get rid of a lot of metal.

SPEAKER_05 41:03

That kind of damage out and do it flat, diamond stones are great because diamond stones are flat uh and really coarse. And this is hand sharpening, we know we're still no need for mechanical So yeah, you can get as yeah, reasonable like knife damage. You're never gonna have a huge nick out of it. So uh it takes small amounts of damage. Like if you've got tram lines in uh or uh white lines and you a bit of wood that you've been working, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:31

Um you've got a bit of a nick then, haven't you?

SPEAKER_05 41:33

Yeah, it it diamond stones take it out and it's really quick. It seems really counterintuitive because you go into such a low grit.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:42

But if you look at if you try cut corners and start with the higher grit, like I don't know, 800 grit wet and dry. Yeah. Just sort of a medium grit, isn't it? You're gonna be at it ages trying to get that damage out. Whereas if you use diamond stone, a couple of passes, you on what sort of by that same scale, what what sort of uh coarseness would the diamond stone be? Well, the ones that I bought, I bought a few years ago and they were about 40, something like that. Well, no, but ones that I got I think were like 400, 800, 1000 and 1200.

SPEAKER_04 42:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 42:16

Whereas the 1200 one was really coarse. Really? They were all really because this is this was like a 20 pound set from Amazon. They were dirt cheap. But the thing is, I didn't care about that because I just wanted them to be aggressive for getting out damage. So it doesn't matter that. So you're ignoring the number basically because of- I've not gone like DMT or whatever and bought like one for a hundred pounds. I don't know how much DMT is, but it's expensive.

SPEAKER_03 42:42

Well, the system I've got, and I got it, I got it, it's it's it's leased off of that supply me with them. And it's just like you said, wet and dry. That are adhesive backed, and you put them on like a piece of something flat like MDF, but these are stuck onto MDF. Um but I think the the main I mean uh correct me if I'm wrong, the main thing to remember with with uh with when when you're sharpening it is to go through all the grits, uh, you know, and and like say 400, 600, 800, 1000, up to about 5,000.

SPEAKER_05 43:14

As long as once the damage is out, you just really chase and scratches, so you don't have to spend hours at it. I remember I bought a whetstone when I was getting into carving, and that was I think maybe one and three thousand grits. It was one of those dual ones, and it says like per bevel, spend uh ten minutes on the or twenty minutes maybe on the one thousand grit, and then ten minutes on the other one. So it was like an hour to do an X or whatever, which is preposterous. Yeah, yeah. Whereas uh with the diamond stones and wet and dry, it's like five minutes max, maybe even two to get your damage out, and then you just do in maybe one to two minutes of each grit, and now I do what four. 400.

SPEAKER_03 44:01

And also you need to keep working on each side, don't you?

SPEAKER_05 44:04

You don't do it all one side and then flip over. And then yeah, I think I end up like it used to be about 3,000 and home, but now I've got 7,000.

SPEAKER_03 44:13

So the takeaway is that you don't have to spend a fortune, but make sure you go through the grits.

SPEAKER_05 44:16

It's also important you get decent wet and dry. I think I use um Matador, I think, as a brand and there's another one which is King Splore, I think it's called. Right. Those are decent. Thanks for that. Yeah. And I don't use them with a decent bat. I literally just hold it on a bit of flat NDF, which is cut in like a five by 15 to 20 centimetre block, and just hold it. It's important that it um because I find what when you put your knife on it, it flattens it, but yeah, you do need to be conscious that your sandpaper, wet and dry paper is flat.

SPEAKER_03 44:50

Yeah, and doesn't crease. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:52

Um otherwise, yeah, you can get bevel rounding and all the bad stuff. I think it's just stuff that comes with expertise. I think the more stuff you put in between the paper and the piece of wood, the spongier it's cushion, don't it? And then yeah, it gets rounder. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:10

So thanks for that then, madam. So so your little business then. I know I I've come here and there's been boxes and boxes ready to go to the post office. So web sales versus in-person. Is it mostly web sales that you're doing? I know I know you go to a lot of shows and things, don't you?

SPEAKER_05 45:28

Well, I only sell at Greenwood working events. Right. Uh I don't do markets or anything because I'll admit it's a niche hobby. It is a niche hobby. I can't go to And your I end as well, aren't you? Yeah, I can't go to a village craft fair and sell them.

unknown 45:44

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 45:45

Exactly. No.

SPEAKER_05 45:46

Uh so yeah, I don't really tell.

SPEAKER_03 45:48

So some most of your sales are uh about via the internet. Yeah. That sort of leaves me to another question that I don't know the answer to. I think I've had I've talked to Robin Wood about it a little bit, but and that's sending sharps through the post. Oh yeah. Whenever I I were how we're gonna buy a pruning saw the other day, a silky saw. Yeah. Are you 18? Prove your 18 and all this business. So you've got so you've got to be careful, have you, with how you package things and who you're selling stuff to?

SPEAKER_05 46:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um what's it?

SPEAKER_03 46:15

Is it a four-inch blade and and they've got to be over a bit?

SPEAKER_05 46:18

Yeah, well, the Royal Mail do have a bit so I post mainly with Royal Mail, and they have a big long list of things that you can't send. Like apparently you can't send straight razors. I think maybe they're just worried about that slicing through the box nut.

SPEAKER_03 46:32

Well it's it's a sharp edge, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 46:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:34

Um I th injuring one of their stuff.

SPEAKER_05 46:37

Yeah, yeah, they do have a long lip but they did kick off it was maybe last yeah, I think it was last year, they were going to ban or they did ban posting of lots or anything sharp, I think. Uh but apparently they um Oh what did they do? They uh there was a big kickback, so uh they eventually uh went back on that, but yeah, that was a bit worrying.

SPEAKER_03 47:04

Yeah, I I remember Robin saying something about that. But is there is there a lot of onus on you to make sure that do you is it causing much m sleepless nights worrying about sending something to somebody who isn't 18 and who's a responsible person? Not yet because so I should I should imagine your your website is set up to m so somebody has to tick box to say yes I'm out over 18 before they're allowed to order something, is that right?

SPEAKER_05 47:29

Well, Royal Mail uh have a uh age-verified thing. Right. Um so the the postman will ask to see ID. Oh right. At the at the at the recipient end. And I I also believe it has to be the person whose name is on the box. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 47:46

So you can't, you know, if you so so so the Royal Mail have internal uh systems to to uh make sure that it's not going to under 18s then?

SPEAKER_05 47:56

Well, yeah, it's pretty much that the SC and if no one claims it just gets sent back to me.

SPEAKER_03 48:01

Fair no. Uh and so and and I just wondered also, uh has has the tariff American tariff system hit you yet? Or or Brexit, has that has that altered has that made things awkward for opposing to the Brexit was because that was more so than the US Yeah, because that was at a time before I had my label printed and I was writing people's addresses by hand.

SPEAKER_05 48:24

Um and uh Brexit meant that it went from all EUs not having to have a customs label to all the EU countries having to have a customs label. Right. So um that was a lot of handwriting, but unfortunately, yeah, I guess. I don't think so. I think there was a slight h hesitation from buyers because no one knew what the costs uh of import duties and all of that was going to be. Right. Uh but I don't think it's transpired, it's not that bad. Nah, I don't think.

SPEAKER_03 49:01

How how so how would you say that your uh sales break down uh you know i i in terms of in terms of areas of the world? I I should imagine the man the vast majority of sales are within the UK. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:15

Well there there's a map just down there which are dog type. Oh yeah. Uh and yeah, last question.

SPEAKER_03 49:21

We were there's quite a few in Scandinavia and Southern Europe. Oh most of Europe actually, most of Western Europe. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 49:26

For for the listener, it it's a very small map, and we put uh well not very small, it's like it's a world map, it's a world map. Yeah, it's a world map, and I put little pins in. Now this pin isn't on someone's house, it's it's barely on a city, but the scales uh so yeah, people don't need to worry that like they've got their addresses pinned. It's like uh if you're from Yorkshire, then there's a pin in Yorkshire.

SPEAKER_03 49:50

It is interesting to see the spread of your of your sales though, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 49:52

So there's a yeah, a lot in America and a lot in Europe. Uh but yeah, you could also see that there's a what about further afield that's a little bit more than a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 50:00

Yeah, but Japan, China, Korea, Australia.

SPEAKER_03 50:03

Um I think yes, some I tell you what, I think we might have we might have mentioned this before when we're talking about events, but we did it, I I've just remembered we did, but it never ceases to amaze me about how Yeah you've got people in different continents and they're they're making very similar things, and the sh I think there's that the meetup on Zooms and things like that, that some of these screen carving groups and that's what I constantly think of is just like uh Joe blogs on the street.

SPEAKER_05 50:32

Does does he know as many international people as you and I might be able to do that? Yeah, well because it's just so mind-boggling that we're friends with people from all local.

SPEAKER_03 50:41

Yeah, and not just and not just theoretical uh virtual friends, they're actually because particularly, I mean we're lucky in the UK because we get we get quite we've got quite a few events, haven't we? And and not just in the UK but in the near continent as well that they're starting to pop up. Yeah. Uh but but I think this we are the we are the the international hub for it, aren't we? You know, I know they do have a I don't think the uh the events even in America uh uh they get dwarfed by the ones that we have here. And and thus you get people coming from all over the world, don't you? Uh we are. Yes. And and and the bigger spread of countries, aren't they? As well. I mean the UK, we we're quite a small country, a little rock in middle Atlantic, aren't we, really? Yeah. So have you got any before we before we wrap up for now then, mate, have you got any any prototypes or any any little sneak sneaky eyes sneaky previews that you can tell me about that? I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 51:38

I'm hoping that this year I will get some uh erm more I don't know how to put this, but like the handles like at the moment my sticking point is that I've made my the metal part of mud blades cheaper, but the wooden part is still 100% handmade and takes time. So I'm hoping to uh get those like copy labed or something.

SPEAKER_03 52:05

Well, anybody who's got a spantijarve handle wood tools handle yeah they have theirs, copy cut of copycat. But I think the spante jarve ones, I think it deliberately leaves leaves like the texture on don't it?

SPEAKER_05 52:17

They're they're quite far apart, the cuts out there so it gives like a rippled he uses is quite an old fashioned machine, whereas wood tools get his done in uh Huddersfield and they've got yeah, copylaid, but also a big like rotary tumbler with abrasives in. So once they're done they chuck them in there and it smooths it out.

SPEAKER_03 52:39

Right.

SPEAKER_05 52:39

Are you so you're thinking about getting a copycover or something like I don't know, it it's a sticking point because I can either maybe build a small one which is cheap to make but also still not that much faster and probably not that good quality.

SPEAKER_03 52:54

Um that's the watch this space for for the for the the uh evolution of your handle process.

SPEAKER_05 53:02

I have been quoted, but I got quoted the minimum order quantity was I think five hundred and they were about five quid probably plus VAT per handle. So I was looking at watch five quid per handle for five hundred. So you're looking at at least two and a half thousand pounds for uh a punt, really. Okay, because with with this when you outsource things, in my experience, and I think a lot of other people's experience, when you outsource things for the first time, it can can go wrong because you're losing quote quality control, aren't you?

SPEAKER_03 53:39

Exactly. Hands on and I know Robins had Robin's had to look look far and wide to to to outsource quite.

SPEAKER_05 53:45

And I think when in a situation like mine, when I want minimum order quantity, they're probably keen just to fog me off and get rid of me. So we'll just do it and say, right, we'll see you then.

SPEAKER_03 53:55

And I uh I I I noticed you one of your courses that you're offering this year, I can't remember where it was now, but you do two different ways of putting an handle on, won't you? One's the dowel, the split dowel, isn't it? Uh and the other's the burning in into it. Where where where where where where did I say that? It's elic as wood button in. Was it? Oh right, okay. And I uh is the one easier than the other in that respect, then are they are there very similar in time and effort?

SPEAKER_05 54:24

It depends what you have. So um I think burning in is easier just because you drill a hole, put the knife in a uh vise, heat it up, pull your handle.

SPEAKER_03 54:35

And the wood is basically hugging the blade.

SPEAKER_05 54:38

And then your blade conforms to the shape of a handle, it won't wiggle about, you still need to glue it, but it means when you're putting shape in the handle, yeah, it's a lot easier. Whereas not everyone has a blade torch, everyone's about uh afraid about ruining the temper and all of that. So the next option is yeah, you split tang one.

SPEAKER_03 54:55

Uh that does allow it to wobble a little bit, which is why I'm not such a huge fan, but all you need to do is drill a hole, put a dowel, which you but then but then when you but then when you're shaping the rest of the handle, you've got to allow knowing that you've got the thickness of the dowel, aren't you? So you when you taper in at the front near the near the with the blade socket, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:14

So all my spoon knives are done with a split down at the moment because you can't clamp a spoon knife and burn it in uh because you just Well you can, but you probably damage your blade.

SPEAKER_03 55:26

Um so yeah, that's uh have you have you before before we wrap up, definitely the last thing here that's that's that's your that's your bread and butter. That's putting that's putting bread and butter on the table. You must have loads of ideas of historical things that you want to make. Oh yeah. Um you have, haven't you? Oh yes. So so do you is mostly of inspiration from and I know you you you get a lot from like trying to work out how maybe uh a uh a blacksmith 500 years ago would have made a a a weapon or what have you. And and I think I think the whole process just interests you, don't it?

SPEAKER_05 56:05

Uh so is is is your inspiration from the armouries or is it from just looking at uh literature or what um it's yeah, quite often I'll have an idea of what I want to make go to the Royal Armouries because they usually have one and then have a look at it, uh yeah, it's just coming across things, and then all of a sudden I'll I want to do it. So rather I'm trying to quell my um enthusiasm. Yeah, a little bit. So rather than jumping into workshop and disregarding work, I've started writing them. Alright, I've got a big list here now, but I uh come up with ideas and um your book it list. Yeah, pretty much.

SPEAKER_03 56:45

Well those what are those things that you want to have a go at making?

SPEAKER_05 56:48

And it's not just historical stuff, the last thing that's on here is uh I don't it's a silly idea, but it was uh an axe, but in the handle, like you'll have a little switch and you pull out the button, there's a Sloid knife in there. Oh right. Is this your sure idea or is it this right? I just it doesn't you know, a bit like how you get your wooden cord sheaths, but instead of it being a sheath, imagine an axe handle. It sounds like terrible because you'd be swinging the axe and all of a sudden enough goes through. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It sounds like a s a like a hidden burn it sort of. Yeah, exactly. Right. But uh yeah, I I just bought that and like if you could come up with a really good solid locking mechanism.

SPEAKER_03 57:28

Yeah, definitely have to lock. I mean, I haven't been around the Armory's yet, which is to my shame because it's it's it's it's in Leeds City. It's it's actually quite close to where the Tetley's brewery was, isn't it? Uh next to the River Air. Um is it is is it just uh British stuff or is there stuff from around the world? So no, you went you went to Germany, didn't you, last year, and you were you were looking at uh historical type of.

SPEAKER_05 57:52

Yeah, so a lot of places like that I think stem from private collections which have been donated to a lot of museums are the legacy. I think the Royal Armour is is I'm not too sure. It has had a lot of private collections donated to it, but um Yeah, it's Yeah, it's not just the UK, it's it's it's a worldwide um collection. Well a a lot of the medieval stuff they have is German because Saxon. I don't think uh especially armour from like the 1500s, a lot of English armour doesn't exist. There's very not many uh records. I think a lot of it it's a bit like cars today. You don't get many English made cars like uh you uh beamers and like Ferraris are just like the armours because a lot of armour was made in Germany.

SPEAKER_03 58:46

Is that because their development was in i ahead of the Britain then? So they would have imported armoury, is that is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_05 58:55

Yeah, p potentially, it's just yeah, they were better at it, and like you'd have for that armour making uh you'd have to have a huge skilled workshop. So yeah, it it makes sense. Um I didn't realise that. But uh yeah, the the armour royal armour is is uh there's so much there. Uh and yeah, there's different segments of it. Uh and it's not all historical because the there is um well, there's like a lot of guns there. And in fact, a lot of people don't realise this. Underneath the armour is in the basement, and underneath the car park is a firing range where the police occasionally go to like test firearms, maybe which have been involved uh uh uh uh I don't know, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:39

Yeah, yeah, crimes. Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 59:41

But yeah, Bazette.

SPEAKER_03 59:42

Well they have to check they have to check ballistic pat patterns, don't they? Exactly, so it's that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_05 59:46

So yeah, there's that firing in leads underneath the arm range.

SPEAKER_03 59:50

Alright, well that that makes sense as well, won't it, all tied together? Right. I'm just about there then I don't mind. I think unless there's anything I think just about there's gonna be a tune at the start of this um at this of this uh interview, but we don't know what it's gonna be yet. But we can guarantee it's gonna be at least by Adam, maybe me as well, we'll see. But we'll let you know in the subsequent episode uh or or I'll do a um a preamble and we'll tell you what tune it is. I'm sure people will be interested so they can play along with us around the campfire. But that just remains for me to thank you, Adam, for your time, mate. And uh yeah, um we've we've we've just sort of started putting lists together of people we'd like to interview. So uh hopefully we'll try and do one once about every fortnight and keep them coming, and whenever people are interested, we'll keep trying to uh bring you interesting information and and and interviews. So uh so thank you very much, Adam, and we'll see you in the next one.