3. Addiction, Trauma, and Creating Supportive Communities with Eric Stone

In this episode, Bethany interviews Eric Stone, a seasoned therapist, about his journey into therapy, the importance of diverse experiences in mental health, and the challenges and rewards of working in this field. Eric shares insights on working in various therapy settings and emphasizes the significance of supportive therapy communities, harm reduction approaches, and addressing addiction and religious trauma. They discuss the impact of the field on mental health professionals, the need for diverse representation in therapy, and the future of addressing gambling addiction. Eric also touches on the essence of connection in combating addiction and the evolving understanding of trauma-informed care. Join them for an engaging discussion on fostering community support among therapists and ensuring accessible and effective mental health care for all. 

Find Eric Stone:

Website  and the Deciphering Growth Podcast

To learn more about Bethany Valenti, PsyD:
www.bethanyvalenti.com
https://www.instagram.com/sayhellotoyourtherapistpodcast/
https://www.instagram.com/bethanyvalentipsyd/
https://www.facebook.com/p/Bethany-Valenti-PsyD-61579092524236/

Things we talked about/mentioned:

Ted Talk Rat Park: Everything you think you know about addiction is wrong | Johann Hari | TED

A&E show Intervention 

00:00 Introduction and Warm Welcome 

00:58 Journey to Becoming a Therapist 

01:54 Diverse Experiences in Mental Health 

02:38 Challenges and Rewards in Counseling 

03:51 The Importance of Community Support 

04:31 Navigating Therapy and Specializations 

06:05 Addressing Burnout and Industry Issues 

06:28 The Role of Diversity in Therapy 

08:49 Client-Therapist Relationships 

10:09 The Impact of Trauma and Addiction 

12:40 Misconceptions and Stigmas in Therapy 

19:47 Future Trends in Mental Health 

20:08 The Connection Between Addiction and Connection 

20:50 The Vietnam War and Addiction 

21:20 The Role of Connection in Overcoming Addiction 

21:53 The Misconceptions and Realities of Addiction 

23:39 Harm Reduction and Therapy Approaches 

28:12 The Importance of Community and Support 

32:57 Therapist's Personal Insights and Practices 

34:16 Fun and Personal Questions 

37:04 Final Thoughts and Where to Find More Information 

Transcript

0:00

Welcome to the Say Hello to your therapist podcast. I'm Dr. Bethany Valenti. Join me as we say hello to my friend Eric Stone, a licensed professional clinical counselor, supervisor, and licensed independent chemical dependency counselor. He has a ton of experience across multiple settings, including correctional settings, community mental health, group practices, and solo practice. In this episode, we cover different approaches to addiction and trying to navigate treatment. As you may pick up on, we had plans to discuss religious trauma, but due to a miscommunication on my part, we had less time to chat to cover it in the depth that it deserves. So Eric and I are planning on having him back for that. Which I'm looking forward to, but for now, I hope you enjoy the conversation Eric's wisdom and approachability as much as I did. Don't forget to check out the show notes for where to find out more about Eric and the things we talked about.

Bethany Valenti 1:04

Welcome, Eric.

Eric Stone (he/his) 1:06

Glad to be here, Bethany.

Bethany Valenti 1:08

It's so good to see your face. You all might find out I'm biased against all these people that I bring on here. I just really enjoy them so much. So I'm gonna be smiling really big today.

Eric Stone (he/his) 1:18

It's a list of enemies. No, I'm just kidding.

Bethany Valenti 1:20

Actually. I have a whole other list. You're from the other list. That is what you are.

Eric Stone (he/his) 1:24

interview people you disagree with on things

Bethany Valenti 1:27

I have a list of questions that you're not anticipating whatsoever about what we're talking about today because we're in totally different camps.

Eric Stone (he/his) 1:34

I look forward to being surprised.

Bethany Valenti 1:35

Yes.

Eric Stone (he/his) 1:36

Like a fun time,

Bethany Valenti 1:37

You could take a lot of heat from what I understand you, you do a lot of.

Eric Stone (he/his) 1:40

you know, every so often.

Bethany Valenti 1:43

You know, one of the things I've been asking everybody is how you became a therapist. Like what brought you there?

Eric Stone (he/his) 1:48

I just always remember really loving helping people. I was a camp counselor like junior high school. Really loved helping the little kids

Bethany Valenti 1:57

yes.

Eric Stone (he/his) 1:58

seeing them have a good time. I used to be the kid that got homesick at camp and struggled, and so, it just kinda started and then, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do, so I got a psych degree. Had this amazing advisor at Anderson University called Dr. Stahl. She's now the chair over there and she Kind of said, you should be a counselor, and just kind of never

Bethany Valenti 2:21

Didn't look back.

Eric Stone (he/his) 2:21

that. Yeah, just.

Bethany Valenti 2:22

Took that and ran with it.

Eric Stone (he/his) 2:23

it ever not been a counselor since going for a master's degree in it. So been, I think year six or seven now. I can't remember

Bethany Valenti 2:32

man.

Eric Stone (he/his) 2:32

COVID, was in between, so I blame that for my math.

Bethany Valenti 2:36

Yeah. And you really have your hands in a lot of kind of different pots for what I remember, like you have a lot of experience in kinda community mental health, private practice. Correct.

Eric Stone (he/his) 2:47

so I started out at a nonprofit, working as a counselor in corrections and then kind of doing some stuff on the side with group practices and private practice, and then went to a for-profit organization and now still doing private practice, but getting back into the nonprofit Yeah, I've just been like, most counselors though, we all kind of tend to hop in and hop outta different Sites and stuff,

Bethany Valenti 3:13

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 3:13

Benefits and challenges, I think, for each opportunity.

Bethany Valenti 3:17

Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like that type of work is just so important and I think it's not always considered as, I don't know, exciting or flashy to some people, but it's also some of the most important work that we need to be doing.

Eric Stone (he/his) 3:31

I mean,

Bethany Valenti 3:31

'cause it's hard.

Eric Stone (he/his) 3:32

It's hard. It's I think working with children and family services is hard.

Bethany Valenti 3:35

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 3:36

with college students at a university counseling center is hard, so I mean,

Bethany Valenti 3:40

you know?

Eric Stone (he/his) 3:40

job. Has its benefits and challenges, but some have more prestige Can say that you know, I did an internship at a really prestigious place and it was in

Bethany Valenti 3:51

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 3:52

and everyone knew where it was so I got a lot of. support from that. But then when I started out maybe in the nonprofit space, people didn't really know where I worked or what it was. They appreciated that I was doing something that gave back to the community. You know, just a little different, not that we should be doing it for that, It does for sure make a difference when people are like, oh, wow, that's so amazing. Or Knowing what the work looks like.

Bethany Valenti 4:14

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 4:15

But the average burnout rate for counselors is two or three years. So I beat that

Bethany Valenti 4:18

Yeah. You did.

Eric Stone (he/his) 4:19

but people just

Bethany Valenti 4:21

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 4:21

usually, if it's master's level, go to school for two, sometimes three years and then to leave after that. So I think

Bethany Valenti 4:27

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 4:27

the mental health space is very interesting. We're kind of a young field, But also we don't really protect each other. Very good. Just Like we

Bethany Valenti 4:35

don't

Eric Stone (he/his) 4:36

advocate. We think, oh my gosh. Bethany's gonna start a podcast. Well, I Podcast. Is that my enemy now? And it's like, no, we can both just have a podcast or we But honestly, I just, I see it a lot in counseling. I mean, every industry competition, but in therapy, I counseling mental health. I see it very often Like if we worked in sales and you went to a new company. You know,

Bethany Valenti 5:01

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 5:01

is,

Bethany Valenti 5:02

Right. All the non-compete stuff.

Eric Stone (he/his) 5:04

Yeah,

Bethany Valenti 5:05

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 5:05

it gets very personal,

Bethany Valenti 5:06

Yeah, when I was first starting to look into solo private practice, you were immediately just so supportive. And I think that really translates into a lot of the work that you do. it really is a true passion of yours from what I've been able to observe to create a community of therapists that support each other so that we can do the work better.

Eric Stone (he/his) 5:25

Well, it's like, you know, if our kids or family need a therapist, or we do,

Bethany Valenti 5:30

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 5:31

want 'em to have really great options and to be around and tons of people left the field during COVID. Tons of people can. Go to Costco and maybe make the same amount of money and less stress. I mean it's just a very stressful industry and so Do think, you know, that scarcity mindset, you just see how infectious that can be Yeah it's, I think the field gets better every year, Of things going on in the world, but I think when I started it was very tense. It was very like, are you here to steal my job?

Bethany Valenti 6:00

Right.

Eric Stone (he/his) 6:01

I don't think it's as pervasive. I'm sure it's still there. Somewhere. But you know that I think there's been a shift in some understanding. There may be a shift of like, Hey, we need to work. Together. But I just, you know, I see a lot of infighting with therapists where we're all pretty much on the same page about a lot of things, but we will down about the few things that are different.

Bethany Valenti 6:24

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 6:24

and, I just, I think some people don't want to deal with that, I'm a white heterosexual male. It comes from an upper middle class background, like I had a ton of privilege to get here. Not everybody has that privilege to spend and those connections and support to get those degrees, get through those things, get that coaching support which I think is really why therapy looks a lot like it does, where the makeup is not representative of every community,

Bethany Valenti 6:50

right.

Eric Stone (he/his) 6:51

or everyone's experience or And I have to check myself that, you know. White male. It's a lot of privilege saying this But

Bethany Valenti 6:57

At the same like token, it's just so great to have a white male therapist out there though too, because the field is we need such diversity because fit is so important and people being able to like be comfortable with who they're coming to get therapy from.

Eric Stone (he/his) 7:12

Yeah. There's. We all need options And some people, you know, wanna work with one person of a certain gender or a And like, that's okay.

Bethany Valenti 7:20

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 7:21

if we don't have all those options, you know, the thing. I would say what's good for maybe private practice businesses isn't always what's good for the community. And what I mean to say Like, what's very good for a lot of therapists is a huge wait list set, whatever rate you want, business is good, but.

Bethany Valenti 7:37

Right?

Eric Stone (he/his) 7:38

in an economy like this right now, is For our community that

Bethany Valenti 7:41

Right.

Eric Stone (he/his) 7:42

there's really no one where someone's willing to wait six to eight months to get their wound healed Like if I break a shoulder, I can't wait

Bethany Valenti 7:48

You can't,

Eric Stone (he/his) 7:49

six or eight months Fixed. So small roast on our field a little bit because

Bethany Valenti 7:55

I hear that.

Eric Stone (he/his) 7:56

problem to have, that people can be seen when they want to and heal when they need to, and move forward with their lives. That's what it should look like. So that's one of the. I don't even think this is what we said we were gonna talk about, but

Bethany Valenti 8:08

Right?

Eric Stone (he/his) 8:08

just was one of my pushbacks on things with like, system would you do that? But you'll see a few people who don't approach it that way.

Bethany Valenti 8:16

right. And kinda as you were sort of touching on celebrating in the diversity of the different things, like even if it's like you, we both do trauma therapy or you know, like everyone's need is gonna be different. I am not trained in EMDR. You are trained in EMDR. Correct? If I remember right. So like for instance, if I really felt like a client. Needed that and I wasn't prepared for that. Knowing that I had someone that I could trust to send someone to is really important. Even within the same branch or in honor of kinda like what we did want to talk about today, like. With addiction or even religious trauma. If I felt like I was kind of outta my depth with either of those things with someone, or if someone came to me and said, I have a relative dealing with X, Y, and Z, I'd love to be able to send them to someone who I trust or who I felt like would be a good fit for them.

Eric Stone (he/his) 9:04

Yeah, no, thanks for saying that. I think. I do think those are my niches. Addiction and religious trauma. To make just a quick aside, if that's okay.

Bethany Valenti 9:13

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 9:14

while I think niches should be honored and we as therapists should not be doing everything it is up to the client. We had a client, you know, you had a client and they were like, well that's great, Eric does that, but I wanna stay with you.

Bethany Valenti 9:26

So I would stay with you. Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 9:28

Yeah. And sometimes we do get these expertise and skills, but we kind of forget what's going on in the room for someone.

Bethany Valenti 9:34

Absolutely.

Eric Stone (he/his) 9:35

like, someone's not referring, it's, well, they want to stay with

Bethany Valenti 9:38

Stay with you. I am getting trained in EMDR so I don't send people away,

Eric Stone (he/his) 9:42

I love it. Also like the biggest factor is the Relationship for, and you know, different modalities, different things, But if you have someone that you trust and feel safe with, like that is really important. I Would say the most important things for therapy,

Bethany Valenti 9:56

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 9:56

we have to do science and regulated stuff.

Bethany Valenti 9:59

Absolutely yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 10:00

about what is

Bethany Valenti 10:00

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 10:01

that and sometimes I think it gets lost. So yeah, I just like to throw that out before I'm like, and

Bethany Valenti 10:05

No, because it still is. To a point our responsibility as therapists to kind of try and fill in the gaps where we can. Like consulting is a thing, right? So if I wanted to be able to support a client that I have, like being able to say, Hey, I would love to talk to somebody so I have a little bit more of a sense of what I'm navigating here, if I'm on the right track, all that kind of stuff.

Eric Stone (he/his) 10:29

And I just, we're on the same page.

Bethany Valenti 10:30

yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 10:31

there's a lot of needs. Like there's a need for therapists that work with veterans that aren't veterans because there's not enough, there's a need for therapists. You work with people in recovery 'cause there's not enough. And so, you know, I've never had. I've been diagnosed with major depressive disorder. That does not mean that I can't help someone. And

Bethany Valenti 10:46

Right, right, right, right, right.

Eric Stone (he/his) 10:48

Certain things, severity, but I think sometimes we're, you know, changing the goalposts, And I would say that as a private practice therapist, this is why there's the huge rises of all these tech startups where you can go online at a very low cost, sometimes no cost with your insurance and get assigned a therapist and

Bethany Valenti 11:06

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 11:07

with them very quickly.

Bethany Valenti 11:08

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 11:08

Because we're doing some of those things on our own and it seems important and sometimes it is. But that's not a really great product. To go get therapy or get my, you know, car fixed or something, like I wanna know what I'm doing. I want it to be an easy experience. I don't want have to email 17 people hear from four and no one's taking clients.

Bethany Valenti 11:28

Yes.

Eric Stone (he/his) 11:29

a good experience.

Bethany Valenti 11:30

a fantastic analogy. Because you, yes, anytime someone's trying to look for therapy. I mean, that's one of the reasons I started this podcast is because I want people to feel like they can have an understanding of how. Therapists are in the room and how they can assess for fit, what they can look for, because it's so daunting to navigate finding a therapist.

Eric Stone (he/his) 11:49

It is it's terrifying. I'm a therapist who's been in therapy and had to do this

Bethany Valenti 11:53

Multiple times.

Eric Stone (he/his) 11:54

publicly,

Bethany Valenti 11:54

Same.

Eric Stone (he/his) 11:55

same, right?

Bethany Valenti 11:56

Same.

Eric Stone (he/his) 11:57

A new therapist. My therapist was going through some health things. They were wonderful. And I was like, okay. And so I go to Central Consult, whatever. I'm looking for people and I'm like, oh, okay. Like they take my insurance like, okay, I have this consult and it's going great. It's like the convo you and I are having right this moment. It's very It's very good. And then at the end we're like talking about scheduling legitimately. And then they say, what do you do for work? Very random comment. And I was like, oh, I'm a therapist. And like the whole thing

Bethany Valenti 12:27

Yeah. Shifted

Eric Stone (he/his) 12:29

and the direct quote I got was, I just don't know if I can work with you. 'cause like, you know, too much about the magic big red flag for me at that point. Because it's like, therapy's not magic. I love that people think it's,, we're in.

Bethany Valenti 12:40

that. It's magical. Yes.

Eric Stone (he/his) 12:42

So then they emailed me a few days later like, Hey, I had to talk to my supervisor. I can't work with you. And I was like, and I was pretty direct. I was like, I want you, you need to explore what happened because it was going great. And You found out I was a therapist and so

Bethany Valenti 12:52

wouldn't've been a good

Eric Stone (he/his) 12:53

fit.

Bethany Valenti 12:54

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 12:54

like, that happens all the time where like

Bethany Valenti 12:57

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 12:57

I'll give you some real examples I have is like, I have real clients who, they're in their recovery from substances or gambling.

Bethany Valenti 13:05

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 13:06

And then if that comes up when they're trying to find a therapist for something, like a relationship issue or

Bethany Valenti 13:11

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 13:11

support, they sometimes get asked, well, do you need a specialist for that? It's like, you know. That's really offensive. Like, that's like a do

Bethany Valenti 13:19

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 13:19

I mean, won't go too far, but

Bethany Valenti 13:21

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 13:21

of those things, I think it's really misunderstood. So I love my niche. I'm passionate about it, but also there's not enough people supporting those niches. And so For me to have less business. And I wanna say thankfully, there are lots of people getting that niche More recovery informed and informed on religious trauma to the point where I'm not one of the few people like it was a couple years ago. And that's a great thing. That's a great thing that my community can go and heal when they need to. They don't have to wait on my schedule or the few people who are doing it a few years ago

Bethany Valenti 13:50

yeah. Also, like we don't always wanna just be defined by something that we dealt with forever ago, you know? But I just totally hear that part of the story of what you were saying there of like, oh, so you. Had problems with gambling addiction 10 years ago, and you got treatment for it, like, do you need a specialist for that? No, I'm here for relationship stuff, like

Eric Stone (he/his) 14:11

It's really dishonoring of someone's experience And I think sometimes we want to help people or want what's best for them, but sometimes, like we are disrespecting their power and their choice and

Bethany Valenti 14:23

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 14:24

that is re-traumatizing someone to say no, you can't work with me. You need someone better

Bethany Valenti 14:28

And it also feels pathologizing the way you just said that, that felt like if I were on that other side, I'd be like, well, what's wrong with me? Like I can't be that bad,

Eric Stone (he/his) 14:35

And that's where I think just there's the science, there's the art, and then There's not a bubble, it's not a vacuum. There's real life. I think we think about recovery. From substances. it's a very challenging thing. So I totally understand why a lot of people are Therapist, or I'm a private practice therapist. I'm not gonna see someone that's actively using methamphetamines. So I definitely get that part of You just hear things where it's like, well, hey, I smoke weed or. Hey, I'm drinking a little more than I should, but I don't have any medical complications. And why would we not all be able to slightly help with that? Just like we all can slightly help with anxiety and depression and trauma. I don't know Bethany if you noticed this, but when I was graduating, there was this whole thing of like the niche of being like trauma. So like, my niche is trauma. I work with trauma, and I have found that like everyone kind of knows more about trauma these days. Coming out recently

Bethany Valenti 15:28

yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 15:29

there's all these trainings where it's like I can't just say I work with trauma because there's Types. There's

Bethany Valenti 15:33

Yes.

Eric Stone (he/his) 15:34

There's perinatal trauma,

Bethany Valenti 15:35

There's military trauma there's first responders healthcare

Eric Stone (he/his) 15:38

trauma, there's religious trauma. I guess I, I caught out all the gatekeeping, so it's like, I'm not saying, hey, we can't all help with something. But You do tend to find there's so much trauma in the world

Bethany Valenti 15:51

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 15:51

are recognizing it, seeing it, identifying it. So like you do, I do think at some point. Pick up some kind of specialty and like, for me, I work with a lot of dads these days that are impacted by some of these things

Bethany Valenti 16:03

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 16:03

There's nowhere on my website that says, Hey, I'm a dad. I just

Bethany Valenti 16:06

give off

Eric Stone (he/his) 16:06

the energy. It must be my wild shirts. But

Bethany Valenti 16:09

I thought it was the beard.

Eric Stone (he/his) 16:10

I love Yeah. It's the beard. It's my passion for bourbon and No, I'm just kidding. But you know, there's just this, you find the right fit, but you see people just kinda, getting those niches. And so that, that's something where like I have had my family's impacted by addiction. I'm not personally in recovery,

Bethany Valenti 16:28

Right.

Eric Stone (he/his) 16:29

impacted by religious trauma. And so it was really Use my own wounds to heal them and then take those lessons and then use my license, use my training to help, because it's It's very widespread. I'm from Butler County, which is a pretty religious area,

Bethany Valenti 16:46

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 16:46

especially my age growing up. and there's just tons of trauma. People who were, you know, in parents of, like, their parents divorced and they remember how they were treated at church, like the kids who had no direct involvement. Some of my clients were in the queer community feeling outcast by not just their family, but their culture, their religious environment friends, schools. yeah, there's just a lot of different, and then, you know how I kind of also stumbled in was like with addiction, you know, some people being told like, well, if you were actually turning this over to God, you'd be sober. Very awful. Things like that. That doesn't help. I say this a lot of places, but if I could delete the show intervention from the entire cultural memory, I would Because it is so Unhelpful to get in someone's face,

Bethany Valenti 17:37

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 17:37

break them down, make them feel small, and then say, okay, now do you want to change your life? That. I don't think I would respond well to that. In that. No one usually does, but you'll hear that one few examples, oh, well, like, we scared 'em straight. It's like scared straightall that stuff works on people who are already not gonna do it. Someone who's already struggling that's not changing. That's just increasing their shame. Increased shame does not lead to positive healthcare outcomes

Bethany Valenti 18:03

I, yeah, there's so many different ways I could go with that because I have such a strong reaction to it. But yeah, absolutely. I only saw a little bit of intervention here and there, but it definitely sensationalized the whole process and made it I could totally see it being something that made it feel like that was an. Integral stage in a recovery, you know, we need to stage an intervention with someone and really just make sure that they know that it's bad, and how bad it has gotten.

Eric Stone (he/his) 18:30

listen, like, like I've had plenty of tough conversations with people impacted by the disease of addiction Hey, like this isn't working. We can't have this going on. But it's coming from a place of care and concern. Dare I use the word, like healthy love for that person you know, you can't talk about substance use, you can't talk about things like that without understanding like trauma, But early childhood

Bethany Valenti 18:53

Yes.

Eric Stone (he/his) 18:54

The self-medicating and

Bethany Valenti 18:55

yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 18:56

and still it is easier to go and get alcohol at the gas station than it is to schedule therapy. Even with all these apps

Bethany Valenti 19:03

It is,

Eric Stone (he/his) 19:03

or

Bethany Valenti 19:04

yes.

Eric Stone (he/his) 19:04

Getting on chat, GPT, pretend you're my therapist,

Bethany Valenti 19:07

Right

Eric Stone (he/his) 19:08

is its own issues. It's And it starts young. And that's where I think sometimes people are like, well, how do they not know? It's like, well, some people grow up and drinking every day in excess is not seen as anything out of the normal.

Bethany Valenti 19:20

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 19:20

and if you develop this dependence on a coping skill

Bethany Valenti 19:23

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 19:23

you're going to continue that into your adulthood.

Bethany Valenti 19:26

Or like as you face new challenges, old copings, is gonna naturally come to the surface, is gonna be like potentially the first urge or like an understandable urge that comes up again. Like even in recovery.

Eric Stone (he/his) 19:39

stress response. If you're, I mean, how many movies, music, memes, Out there talks about, it's Friday.

Bethany Valenti 19:48

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 19:49

One thing, I'm honestly, if you and I were meeting in five years legitimately and we were recording this episode, I think we'll be talking about gambling the same way we talk about

Bethany Valenti 19:56

alcohol and cannabis

Eric Stone (he/his) 19:57

It is so on the rise everywhere.

Bethany Valenti 20:01

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 20:02

and I just, if you have these vices or outlets that you can do pretty much anywhere, at any time. That's really tough to put back in the box. Our brains are responding to that, our bodies are We can shift to depending on that. But it's concerning.

Bethany Valenti 20:19

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 20:20

and I think very hard to heal from. And I think also the opposite of addiction is not sobriety, it's connection. cause you're connecting with whatever that outlet is.

Bethany Valenti 20:30

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 20:30

Great Ted Talk called Rat Park. It's someone in Britain and they're giving this great speech, summarizes all this neuroscience, but talks

Bethany Valenti 20:37

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 20:38

of addiction is connection.

Bethany Valenti 20:39

Wow.

Eric Stone (he/his) 20:40

TED talk. Really worth the time. I think it's like five minutes maybe.

Bethany Valenti 20:44

Okay.

Eric Stone (he/his) 20:45

but that's what people need. they need connection. They need meaning, they need support. if you wanna look at the largest study of addicted people who were addicted or struggling with addiction or misusing substances, just looking at the Vietnam War and all of those soldiers returning, And millions of them misusing opioids over Vietnam.

Bethany Valenti 21:04

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 21:04

not millions of people in addiction when they came back. So using that to cope with whatever they were seeing, death, destruction. Does that not mean that

Bethany Valenti 21:14

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 21:15

there were lots of people who struggled with addiction when they came back. Absolutely.

Bethany Valenti 21:17

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 21:18

you look at people who came back to their homes, to their families,

Bethany Valenti 21:22

Connection.

Eric Stone (he/his) 21:23

They didn't have that. So I'm not saying that everyone that struggles with addiction, oh, they just don't have a family, or that's not

Bethany Valenti 21:28

I totally get that.

Eric Stone (he/his) 21:29

you have those connections. That's your why, right? Like why am I not going to go out

Bethany Valenti 21:35

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 21:35

and not come home tonight? Well, I have my family. I have a job I have a community that depends on me. That's my why. You're not connected to that, you can see very quickly why it's like, well, why does it matter?

Bethany Valenti 21:48

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 21:48

To say that we all can't sit here and see getting to a breaking point like that, it's an equal opportunity Hater. Addiction doesn't care about your values, doesn't Your goals for your life,

Bethany Valenti 22:00

yeah,

Eric Stone (he/his) 22:01

your family.

Bethany Valenti 22:02

yeah. I always remember. When I worked with the homeless and that. And when I did do some community mental health substance use work in my training before I made a transition in my focus, always feeling like, two things. One, we're all sort of one event potentially away from this. And also there were people that you just saw it, like, how do you not have an issue with addiction? Or run into these things given what circumstances you're in.

Eric Stone (he/his) 22:31

I mean the number one cause of bankruptcy in the United States is medical bankruptcy.

Bethany Valenti 22:35

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 22:36

just being honest, I've sat with many people their. Misuse or challenges all ties back to like a financial

Bethany Valenti 22:43

Medical, financial crisis.

Eric Stone (he/his) 22:45

members facing a challenge.

Bethany Valenti 22:48

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 22:48

yeah. I mean, have way more in common with each other and that's where, you know, just because I've not personally struggled like doesn't Anything. And that's what I would

Bethany Valenti 22:55

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 22:55

all my substance use patients. Like I'm not above any of the stuff that we're talking about,

Bethany Valenti 22:59

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 23:00

to anyone, but. You do see people you know, feel a little comfortable with thinking they're above it, or it's a moral failing

Bethany Valenti 23:09

Right?

Eric Stone (he/his) 23:10

you know, that's a mistake. Why people do it because it's way less scary to

Bethany Valenti 23:15

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 23:16

have it be a moral failing. Then like, oh my gosh, this could happen to my child, this could happen to my partner.

Bethany Valenti 23:21

Right.

Eric Stone (he/his) 23:22

so that's a little bit about. addiction

Bethany Valenti 23:24

Can I ask like one more thought? So thinking of someone who might be struggling with some form of addiction or maybe like some dependency on something and not really, I think I've always wondered as a client, like how do people have a sense of like how they're stepping into a certain type of therapy. You mentioned like trauma informed earlier. For instance, when I started to do more work in this, I got very. Passionate about kinda harm reduction model versus illness model versus the self-medicated kind of approach as well. I'm curious about your take on that and if you have a certain affinity for any or all of those or if, is there a way for a potential client to try and navigate that? as we're trying to find somebody? It's kind of a huge question, so I'm sorry.

Eric Stone (he/his) 24:11

No. It's a good question. I'm a huge fan of farm reduction and I would just say in my entire career, I've never met a single or how on, well, whether that would be like. Schizophrenia to substance misuse and addiction that wasn't willing to do. One thing was, is it always the one thing I want them to do? No.

Bethany Valenti 24:32

Right there. Yep.

Eric Stone (he/his) 24:33

harm reduction is saving lives every day. Just about honoring the person's choice and preferences. Now, does that mean I'm gonna let someone steal my car? No, but it does mean I will let them choose a goal when I can. It means I'll include their feedback. Include them in the process. That is way different than summoning demanding. Old school AA would be abstinence only.

Bethany Valenti 24:58

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 24:59

Until you can quit cold Turkey, you can't actually start being in recovery.

Bethany Valenti 25:04

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 25:04

the quickest way I can say that's not something everyone should do, is that you are misusing benzos or alcohol, you may be at a level where you need to literally go to the hospital to cut back

Bethany Valenti 25:15

Right?

Eric Stone (he/his) 25:15

literally can't stop drinking or Have a heart attack and die.

Bethany Valenti 25:19

Yeah. Alcohol withdrawal is like one of the most dangerous ones. Like the most fatal, right?

Eric Stone (he/his) 25:22

and benzos, you can actually die from the withdrawal. You'll feel like you're dying in the withdrawal from others, you can actually die from the side effects of alcohol and benzodiazepine withdrawal. It's really scary. It's really intense. So I, I love harm reduction, Hey, I'm not gonna misuse I'm not gonna mix my substances. Hey, I'm gonna start small Go big, I won't use work. I'm in a place that's alone or locked up. I'll be on the

Bethany Valenti 25:47

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 25:48

I'll use test strips. There's so many steps but.

Bethany Valenti 25:52

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 25:52

It's just like me. I haven't worked out in months.

Bethany Valenti 25:55

Right,

Eric Stone (he/his) 25:55

if my doctor was like, Hey, I know you're not gonna work out, but can I just get you to go take a lap around your You just go outside, just move a little more? I'd probably do that.

Bethany Valenti 26:05

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 26:06

That is a step I could take, Still a step forward. But we could sit and be like, well, they're failing treatment. I don't like that language.

Bethany Valenti 26:14

I immediately was like, yeah, I heard that.

Eric Stone (he/his) 26:17

How about treatments failing the needs of these people? And it's like if you Benchmark that no one can reach, you probably need a better entry point for people to get there, which is why there's things like peer recovery and there's homeless camp outreach and all types of things.

Bethany Valenti 26:34

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 26:34

And I think those things are really beautiful and really needed. At the same time though, harm reduction is if that person is refusing to do services, Get to do that. Maybe unhelpful as the choice may be sometimes.

Bethany Valenti 26:46

Yeah. Or how painful that could be to like other people in their lives, like the person who's doing the thing. As soon as you have buy-in, that's what matters, right?

Eric Stone (he/his) 26:56

Yeah. It's painful. It's a long-term process I would just say if anyone's out there it's difficult to be honest about substance use. Just need to go on the counseling board, psychologist board and look up how many people lost their license for misusing substances. So I don't think I,

Bethany Valenti 27:12

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 27:12

of us are above

Bethany Valenti 27:13

Nope.

Eric Stone (he/his) 27:14

getting into some unhelpful habits and going down

Bethany Valenti 27:17

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 27:18

an unhelpful road.

Bethany Valenti 27:19

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 27:19

so if anybody's out there, like you're not alone it's really hard to. Open up and admit that you need help. Many great outlets, and while I'm maybe not a fan of old school AA One of the best places to meet people knowing what you're going

Bethany Valenti 27:33

going through

Eric Stone (he/his) 27:34

is still gonna be a 12 step meeting. They

Bethany Valenti 27:36

have them from

Eric Stone (he/his) 27:36

non-religious to

Bethany Valenti 27:38

Yep.

Eric Stone (he/his) 27:38

celebrate recovery Smart recovery.

Bethany Valenti 27:41

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 27:42

you know,

Bethany Valenti 27:43

Yeah. community is so important,

Eric Stone (he/his) 27:45

I mean, you can't call your therapist at 3AM You can, I have follow-up questions.

Bethany Valenti 27:49

I know.

Eric Stone (he/his) 27:50

I have a lot of follow-up questions. So, but your sponsor or your friend from group, they may have your back. And we just all need someone. We need people. And so I think that's one of the things where I'm

Bethany Valenti 28:02

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 28:02

we just gotta. We all need somebody. But no, it is definitely, I, it's really rewarding work. I've seen some of my clients handle their relapses or lapses and ups and downs healing those wounds. But, you know, really I don't think we were treating, not just treating addiction, we're treating the underlying stuff that was their grief

Bethany Valenti 28:20

Absolutely.

Eric Stone (he/his) 28:20

Trauma, Unregulated A DHD,

Bethany Valenti 28:22

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 28:23

depression. just pick which

Bethany Valenti 28:25

I know. Difficult relationships.

Eric Stone (he/his) 28:27

I know many people that are good at that.

Bethany Valenti 28:29

Yeah. And this is all before you get into the conversation of what is considered legal and not, and like acceptable type of addiction, right? Caffeine, nicotine, like

Eric Stone (he/his) 28:40

that's a fantastic point. I mean legality has nothing to do with the degree of disruption And what I just be say like is it going to be easier to get away with a caffeine dependency and nicotine? Absolutely. Does it change how much money you spend on cigarettes? It doesn't change if you get caffeine, withdrawal headaches. So yeah I do talk to sometimes people, it's usually Misusing alcohol that wanna say, well, it's not really a big deal because I'm. I don't have any DUIs

Bethany Valenti 29:06

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 29:06

oh, I'm not, doing anything illegal. But it's not in a sustainable practice to keep letting it go on

Bethany Valenti 29:13

yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 29:14

There's

Bethany Valenti 29:14

Is there still a cost and is there still a potential risk that could occur?

Eric Stone (he/his) 29:18

I mean, there's just,

Bethany Valenti 29:20

yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 29:21

that I could probably go into, but

Bethany Valenti 29:22

right.

Eric Stone (he/his) 29:23

but

Bethany Valenti 29:23

yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 29:24

of layers to that, and I think an addiction is an addiction and it's costing you

Bethany Valenti 29:29

Yeah. How about we have you come back to talk about religious trauma. Does that sound good?

Eric Stone (he/his) 29:34

that's probably a good idea.

Bethany Valenti 29:37

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 29:37

good to separate.

Bethany Valenti 29:38

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 29:39

it's linked 'cause of the work I do,

Bethany Valenti 29:40

Yes.

Eric Stone (he/his) 29:40

while I'm kind of calling out religious cases, they can be really painful, but they can also be very healing. Just like, I therapy very painful. or it can be very

Bethany Valenti 29:49

healing

Eric Stone (he/his) 29:49

There's a few ways it can go.

Bethany Valenti 29:51

Yeah, absolutely. And you said something earlier that I would really love to have stitched on a pillow. Was it the legality does not, you said it so beautiful. Legality does not indicate, oh what was it? Disruption. Degree of disruption. Like what?

Eric Stone (he/his) 30:07

Well, I mean, sports gambling's legal, but

Bethany Valenti 30:10

yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 30:10

doesn't mean that it's

Bethany Valenti 30:12

not disrupting

Eric Stone (he/his) 30:13

honestly, my age range. I'm 30, turn 31 soon, 21-year-old males to 35.

Bethany Valenti 30:20

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 30:20

This may feel too provocative. It's like the new cigarettes, honestly, it's the new smoking.

Bethany Valenti 30:23

honestly I'm kind of there with you. Yeah. And it's incredibly socially driven. Like all of, you're competing against people. It's fun. You're seeing who's like this and that. Like just especially how do I put this so I, you know, calling out my husband, he doesn't do it quite as much as he used to, but the fantasy type stuff when there's money involved there too.

Eric Stone (he/his) 30:43

yeah.

Bethany Valenti 30:44

Like fantasy sports, but even like the DraftKings or whatever, there's one that I'm totally blanking on of which one, but like he would talk about the different fantasy sports and say that it made watching games that just weren't as important to you. Like much more fun

Eric Stone (he/his) 30:59

true. I mean, there's legitimately sports all over the world you can bet on like Japanese tennis games

Bethany Valenti 31:04

yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 31:05

I mean, from what you've shared, and I've also done it and I'm Like I've not

Bethany Valenti 31:08

there's fun to it.

Eric Stone (he/his) 31:09

there's this light appeal, but it's it is something where like, okay, well I've spent. Whatever I, the 20 bucks they've spent, Done with

Bethany Valenti 31:16

Yep.

Eric Stone (he/his) 31:17

But

Bethany Valenti 31:18

yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 31:18

like, oh, I gotta go get that money back.

Bethany Valenti 31:20

And more.

Eric Stone (he/his) 31:21

to be? You have to drive to the casino.

Bethany Valenti 31:23

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 31:24

would look at you,

Bethany Valenti 31:25

Right.

Eric Stone (he/his) 31:26

Some stop

Bethany Valenti 31:28

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 31:29

Some check. You

Bethany Valenti 31:30

A few barriers.

Eric Stone (he/his) 31:31

sit on your phone. You don't even have to get out of bed,

Bethany Valenti 31:33

Yep. Yeah, these, it's times have changed. Yeah, absolutely. So a plug for future, you know, religious trauma. I did, and we'll come back to this when we're able to, but I did, I think, wanna put a plug out there because to my understanding you and I are both. Faith-based, like people like in our lives. And I think it's, you know, we can get into this as well as part of our conversation. So this is more of like a teaser hopefully for next time of just having conversations both around religious trauma and how that kind of can shape our own faith now. What relationship you wanted to have in your therapy moving forward, all those kinds of things. So.

Eric Stone (he/his) 32:15

Absolutely.

Bethany Valenti 32:16

Yay. So let me just wrap up 'cause we know we're gonna come back to more stuff, but for the kind of more fun but quick questions. So you are in multiple positions, but you do still have is it part-time solo practice? Correct?

Eric Stone (he/his) 32:28

Yep.

Bethany Valenti 32:29

Private practice.

Eric Stone (he/his) 32:30

virtual.

Bethany Valenti 32:31

Okay.

Eric Stone (he/his) 32:32

Usually the evenings for people after work. I'm tending to get a lot of, very active driven folks that need therapy but can't squeeze it in during the day.

Bethany Valenti 32:43

Yeah,

Eric Stone (he/his) 32:44

of trying to maybe improve their relationships, usually trauma. But I work as a couples therapist For some of those things,

Bethany Valenti 32:52

Do you have any openings right now

Eric Stone (he/his) 32:53

Yes, I

Bethany Valenti 32:54

Okay.

Eric Stone (he/his) 32:54

have one or two right now.

Bethany Valenti 32:56

do you take insurance

Eric Stone (he/his) 32:57

I do take a lot of insurances.

Bethany Valenti 32:59

You do. You do.

Eric Stone (he/his) 33:01

I take a few Medicaid, a few Medicare. I think I'm taking most commercial. I just don't take Anthem, Whole nother conversation.

Bethany Valenti 33:08

Oh, you know, we'll put a pin in that for off mic.

Eric Stone (he/his) 33:12

I just don't take Anthem is probably the quickest way I could say

Bethany Valenti 33:15

it's most other things, but not Anthem. And your current fee for someone who's doing out-of-pocket private.

Eric Stone (he/his) 33:21

I think it's 170. And I will also be honest that I do have a few sliding scale spots. So if that's the barrier for someone,

Bethany Valenti 33:28

Right?

Eric Stone (he/his) 33:28

usually able to make that,

Bethany Valenti 33:30

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 33:31

work for them

Bethany Valenti 33:32

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 33:32

they are in need,

Bethany Valenti 33:34

Yeah. What is something that you like to nerd out about?

Eric Stone (he/his) 33:37

NFL football, I consume the 9:30 Sunday games, the double Monday night. Football, specifically Indianapolis Colts Football. Good or bad or ugly I watch all of it.

Bethany Valenti 33:49

You are not a fair weather fan.

Eric Stone (he/his) 33:51

No, I've seen

Bethany Valenti 33:52

yep.

Eric Stone (he/his) 33:53

good,

Bethany Valenti 33:54

Yes.

Eric Stone (he/his) 33:54

love it.

Bethany Valenti 33:55

Yeah, you sound kind of like a Cincinnati fan, so Lot of heartbreak there.

Eric Stone (he/his) 34:00

there's a lot of heartbreak in Cincinnati Sports.

Bethany Valenti 34:03

Do you have any pets?

Eric Stone (he/his) 34:04

I have two dogs, max and Ellie, a boxer and a bi Sean.

Bethany Valenti 34:09

I have a boxer too. Coffee or tea?

Eric Stone (he/his) 34:11

Oh, coffee.

Bethany Valenti 34:12

Coffee.

Eric Stone (he/his) 34:13

honestly, it took longer for me to say that than I would've expected.

Bethany Valenti 34:16

You didn't interrupt me.

Eric Stone (he/his) 34:18

It's not even a question.

Bethany Valenti 34:19

right. Well we could always save some of the other questions for part two And also because I kind of wanna ask is your blood content transition to PSL yet? 'cause I understand that you are a big pumpkin spice.

Eric Stone (he/his) 34:30

I really honestly thought you were gonna ask me what my blood type was, and that's honestly what I thought you were gonna ask me. So I'm so sorry that I started laughing. I really thought you were like, and just like something light. What's your blood? You know? I normally am a big pumpkin spice girly. I still love it, Their, they have like a pumpkin cold brew that I think is much better

Bethany Valenti 34:51

Oh, okay. Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 34:53

a little healthier,

Bethany Valenti 34:54

Right.

Eric Stone (he/his) 34:55

me.

Bethany Valenti 34:56

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 34:56

or they have the pecan crunch one, which is delicious.

Bethany Valenti 34:59

Good things about that.

Eric Stone (he/his) 35:01

I can really tell you most of the Starbucks menu that has caffeine. If it doesn't have caffeine, I don't even know what it is. But if it has caffeine there's a good chance I can support you and their work.

Bethany Valenti 35:12

I know. Least favorite. Misconception about mental health,

Eric Stone (he/his) 35:16

Oh, you're dumb. If you haven't figured it out, is probably the biggest

Bethany Valenti 35:21

Ooh,

Eric Stone (he/his) 35:21

I would

Bethany Valenti 35:22

that's a good one.

Eric Stone (he/his) 35:23

I see that stopping a lot of people from coming or stopping them from healing where

Bethany Valenti 35:28

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 35:29

tell me where this is coming from. And sometimes it's internal beliefs, sometimes something people have said, but it's a. It's a weighty weight that Carry Themselves.

Bethany Valenti 35:37

Okay. Last question. Can you give a quick snippet of your theoretical orientation?

Eric Stone (he/his) 35:41

Yeah, harm reduction. I tend to work from a feminist perspective Which just means I'm really exploring power dynamics, cultural lenses, and privilege to make sure that it's a safe space. Modality wise would be EMDR, Gottman Couples Therapy and. I do a lot of CBT But from like a person centered way, just because work with a lot of neurodivergent folks

Bethany Valenti 36:07

Where can people find you if they wanna learn more about you?

Eric Stone (he/his) 36:10

Probably the website Empower Change Counseling. But honestly, psychology Today, There's a few things on the website, but honestly I just kind of am spending a lot more time on my clients these days, or with my clients than

Bethany Valenti 36:22

Updating stuff. I get that. Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 36:24

I probably should, but I

Bethany Valenti 36:26

That's where that's where you could find him though. Also I think there might be something called like deciphering growth or something like that, that,

Eric Stone (he/his) 36:33

I guess you're right. Yeah, Me and my colleague Tiffany Graves, we have a podcast similar to this one, Bit different. We focus on deconstructing trauma and what it looks like as like a trauma podcast and

Bethany Valenti 36:45

Yeah.

Eric Stone (he/his) 36:45

behind the scenes of therapy, but lots of different topics on trauma. So a lot of what we've kind of gotten into today, and I know Bethany, you'll be coming on soon.

Bethany Valenti 36:54

Yay. I'm so excited Eric Stone, thank you so much for your time today.

Eric Stone (he/his) 36:58

Thank you for having me. It's been so fun.