14. Putting Everyone Else First? Helping the Helpers with Maria Zabeti

Helping the Helpers: Maria Zabeti on Fatigue, Boundaries, CBT, and Brainspotting

Dr. Bethany Valenti interviews Maria Zabeti, a California-licensed marriage and family therapist who specializes in working with helping professionals. Maria shares her path to therapy as a second career after years of service-oriented work, including as a medical assistant, and explains her passion for connecting with people and being part of their stories. They discuss common themes among helpers—fatigue, resentment, rumination, stress, anxiety, feeling unappreciated at work and at home, difficulty identifying personal needs and values, and challenges with boundaries that can be rooted in childhood roles and family messages. Maria describes her clinical approach using CBT (including a negative thought journal, feelings charts, evidence for/against thoughts, and alternative thoughts), values clarification, and boundary-setting as gradual “muscle-building,” along with elements of positive psychology focused on self-esteem and self-love. She also explains how and when she introduces brainspotting for trauma and difficult emotions.

To learn more about Maria:

Website

Psychology Today

Facebook

LinkedIn

To learn more about Bethany Valenti, PsyD:

Bethany's Website

Say Hello to Your Therapist Podcast Instagram

Bethany's Instagram

Bethany's Facebook Page

Things we talked about:

Maybe You Should Talk to Someone by Lori Gottlieb
Feelings Wheel
Brainspotting

00:00 Welcome + Meet Maria Zabeti (Helping the Helpers)
01:12 Maria’s Path to Therapy: From Medical Assistant to MFT
04:13 Why Psychology Over HR: The Need for Real Connection
06:00 Who Are “Helping Professionals”? Defining the Umbrella
09:24 The Appreciation Gap: Stress at Work and at Home
10:39 Over-Functioning, Exhaustion & Resentment (The Push-Pull)
17:05 Losing Yourself: Needs, Hobbies, and Values Clarification
19:47 Tools in Session: Feelings Charts to Unlock Emotions
24:42 CBT for Helpers: Negative Thought Journal + Reality Testing
28:11 CBT Example: “My Boss Doesn’t Appreciate Me” Reframed
33:16 Pros, Cons, and Next Steps When Work Isn’t Meeting Your Needs
34:20 Your Worth Isn’t Your Job: Meaning, Identity, and Self-Esteem
35:30 Setting Boundaries at Work (After-Hours Calls & Saying No)
37:28 Where People-Pleasing Starts: Childhood Roles and Learned Beliefs
39:45 Roadblocks to Change: Spouse Expectations, Pressure, and Feeling Trapped
41:39 When to Use Brainspotting: Trauma, Loss, and Toxic Relationship Stress
46:52 How Brainspotting Works: Eye Position, Body Sensations, and Debriefing
54:43 Wrap-Up Q&A: Practice Details, Self-Care, Misconceptions, and Where to Find Her

Transcript

0:00

Welcome to the say hello to your therapist podcast. I'm Dr. Bethany Valenti. Join me as we say hello to Maria Zabeti, A marriage and family therapist who specializes in helping the helpers. She loves working with people who work in service of others, focus on themselves, how they feel and their needs and wants. Her primary specialties include anxiety, depression, and spiritual abuse. In this episode, we discuss what themes she often comes across in working with helpers, including fatigue, resentment, and lack of appreciation. We explore how she works with them, including cognitive behavioral therapy techniques and brain spotting. A quick note that the views that we express in this episode are our own and are not a substitute for medical or mental health advice that you would receive from a professional. With whom you have a relationship. Don't forget to check out the show notes to learn more about Maria and things that we talked about. I hope you enjoy.

Bethany Valenti 1:06

Maria, Welcome to the podcast. We're really excited to have you.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:10

Thank you so much for having me.

Bethany Valenti 1:12

I was wondering if you could share with us, how you became a therapist.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:17

Oh gosh. Wow. I've been through, many, many jobs. And really all of the jobs that I've had has been service, you know, it's been of service to someone. and not a lot of people know this about me, but I actually was a medical assistant, for several years.

Bethany Valenti 1:38

Wow.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:38

Loved it because of course, again, I'm taking care of people, right. serving people and trying to really help them. So, after moving from Chicago, 'cause I'm originally from there, I then moved here to Los Angeles. And, then decided that, well to go back to school and went through school and loved every bit of, you know, the psychology part. Wound up getting a bachelor's in human services, but then wanted to really continue, you know, 'cause I really loved the whole psychology aspect of it

Bethany Valenti 2:09

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 2:10

decided to go to grad school and then here I am. I've always, again, I just always loved serving people in any capacity. And so I thought that being a therapist would be a really amazing way to be able to connect with people. 'cause I love connecting with people

Bethany Valenti 2:25

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 2:26

real level.

Bethany Valenti 2:27

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 2:28

So.

Bethany Valenti 2:28

such nice deep work. Like,

Maria Zabeti-California 2:30

It is.

Bethany Valenti 2:31

Yeah. There's gosh, I think her name is one who wrote the book. Maybe you should talk to someone. I don't know if you read that book. I think her name is Lori Gottlieb, but I think I'm actually, I might be totally saying that wrong. But one of the things that she talked about in her book is that, she really liked being a part of people's stories. 'cause she started out going into like, medicine but you didn't really get the same connection with people.

Maria Zabeti-California 2:54

Yeah.

Bethany Valenti 2:54

and she was very like, story oriented. And that's, I really connected with that of like what I would like the deeper, you know, the deeper work.

Maria Zabeti-California 3:01

Yes, yes, exactly. Hearing people's stories. That's that for me, just really no matter even what, no matter what I'm going through, I just feel like when I hear people's stories, it just invigorates me.

Bethany Valenti 3:13

Yeah. Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 3:14

To be able to sit down and have a conversation and, even, you know, yes, they come in with a lot of pain, but I love seeing the, from the beginning, like when they come in,

Bethany Valenti 3:26

Hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 3:26

Feeling a lot of pain to when they're ready to, to actually end their, and they, you know, you see, you see that that person that was meant to be come out

Bethany Valenti 3:38

yeah,

Maria Zabeti-California 3:39

and then

Bethany Valenti 3:39

get to the full arc of like their journey as much as possible within that, you know, phase of their life, right?

Maria Zabeti-California 3:45

Yes. I love that.

Bethany Valenti 3:47

Yeah. So this is a second career for you. I didn't know that.

Maria Zabeti-California 3:51

Yes. Yeah. This is my second career.

Bethany Valenti 3:54

Yeah. It's so funny when you were talking about it, I thought of two or three people just in my cohort alone. They were coming back as second careers. And then in my last job, I knew someone there who actually worked in HR too, and then went to grad school for, to go into psychology. How did you get drawn to psychology specifically once you were in school again?

Maria Zabeti-California 4:17

I think really one of the things, I did have a mentor before I went into grad school, and it's interesting that you mentioned hr. I, I thought that HR was. Was going to be what I wanted to continue on with, you know?

Bethany Valenti 4:34

Mm.

Maria Zabeti-California 4:34

once I once I asked, you know, once I asked about it and then I interviewed someone in the field, I recognized that it wasn't that, just as you were saying right? It wasn't that level of connection.

Bethany Valenti 4:45

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 4:47

people, I was gonna be mainly sitting at a desk. And I mean, nothing wrong with that. I just felt like, for me, I felt like I'm a people person, so I just have to, I, I need to be able to be connecting with people,

Bethany Valenti 5:00

Yeah. Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 5:01

and that makes me happy,

Bethany Valenti 5:03

so you were mentioning all the service work, like you were, you've always been drawn towards service work, and this is like along those lines, you shared with me that you work with helping professionals, like that's kind of like a huge group of people that you work with, right?

Maria Zabeti-California 5:17

Mm-hmm.

Bethany Valenti 5:17

Do you feel like that's partly why, like, do you just connect with their like drive for service too?

Maria Zabeti-California 5:24

Absolutely I can, I feel like I really can connect with them in such a, in such an amazing way because I understand what they're going through. I understand their thought process. I understand their need to constantly be connecting to be able to be of service, to feel

Bethany Valenti 5:42

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 5:43

like they're doing something wonderful in the world

Bethany Valenti 5:45

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 5:46

and

Bethany Valenti 5:46

meaning.

Maria Zabeti-California 5:47

yeah,

Bethany Valenti 5:49

Is that what you're saying? Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 5:50

and to feel like they actually matter.

Bethany Valenti 5:52

Yeah. Absolutely. This doesn't resonate with me as a person at all. we're not here for that. So you said a moment ago how you understand, like how they feel, what are some of the themes that you like, see, come up with helping professionals?

Maria Zabeti-California 6:10

well really from what I hear, a sort of pattern is they feel as the people just don't appreciate them. They don't appreciate all of the things that they do for them.

Bethany Valenti 6:23

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 6:24

See what I'm doing for you. Like, why aren't you appreciating me? Why aren't you saying the least littlest thing? Like, thank you. Or like, oh,

Bethany Valenti 6:33

Like the bare minimum?? Yeah. Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 6:35

Like, what could I do for you?

Bethany Valenti 6:36

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 6:38

And so that's one of the things that for me, just I've noticed come up a lot. You know, with professionals that are constantly giving and giving

Bethany Valenti 6:47

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 6:48

and want, want to be able to see, you know, some, some thank you. Something, some appreciation for what you do.

Bethany Valenti 6:57

Yeah. what tends to fall in under the, kinda like helping professionals umbrella when we're talking about it.

Maria Zabeti-California 7:05

The helping professionals. Gosh. Okay. Medical professionals. There are even, it's interesting because basically one of the clients that I see it is a helping profession, but they do a different type of job, but it is in service of people

Bethany Valenti 7:21

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 7:22

And so, so there's medical, there's of course

Bethany Valenti 7:27

I'm

Maria Zabeti-California 7:28

therapists there's gosh, there's just business people, technology, even though, you know, it doesn't, it feels like okay in sitting, but they are in service, right? They're

Bethany Valenti 7:38

yeah,

Maria Zabeti-California 7:39

in service of people. They're facing their problems, you know, they get angry, people calling sometimes. And so it can feel a bit daunting, right? It's like, okay, here I am working programmers people that really, I mean, are there constantly call center people,

Bethany Valenti 7:56

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 7:57

restaurant managers,

Bethany Valenti 7:59

does teacher fit?

Maria Zabeti-California 8:02

Absolutely I've seen quite teachers doctors I have seen doctors as well. So it's, it's really, it's really a, gosh, you know, as far as giving, it's, it's such a broad,

Bethany Valenti 8:15

I know. when I was thinking about asking the question, there's part of me that's I feel like every role for the most part provides some kind of service. You know what I mean? There's some sort of service at least, or help that they're doing. I think of the people who take care of my trash, you know what I mean? that is a giving service profession,

Maria Zabeti-California 8:32

exactly.

Bethany Valenti 8:32

But I didn't know if there was a definition that we think of more often, it feels like a lot more, medical field tends to come to mind very easily with this.

Maria Zabeti-California 8:42

Yes. And, definitely medical field for me is the ones I, the clients that I've been seeing have been from the medical field teachers. and people from they're sort of like, investigators

Bethany Valenti 8:54

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 8:55

those kind of things. they're people that usually you know, they wanna be able to achieve a higher goal in their lives. They're constantly searching, okay, how can I, you know, what could I do to be able to, to be of service of others and be my best for my family? Be really looking for, I mean, business folks business owners,

Bethany Valenti 9:16

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 9:18

they're constantly trying to achieve a higher goal in their lives.

Bethany Valenti 9:22

Yeah. Yeah. And then, so when you were describing earlier about not feeling appreciated, is that like in their work specifically, or do you feel like it's outside of their work or both?

Maria Zabeti-California 9:39

Both.

Bethany Valenti 9:40

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 9:41

Yeah. So they do feel that they do, they feel as far as work, they feel a tremendous amount of stress

Bethany Valenti 9:49

Mm.

Maria Zabeti-California 9:49

When it comes to their work because they're just doing, they're constantly working and working, and they're doing, they're trying to be their best.

Bethany Valenti 9:57

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 9:57

And so they come home and sometimes you know, it's not always pleasant because they feel like they're, it is just another emotional weight

Bethany Valenti 10:09

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 10:09

they feel when they come home and they don't feel appreciated. Or somebody like leaves the house completely a mess.

Bethany Valenti 10:20

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 10:21

And, and they just like, I mean, come on, let, let, let me at least be able to feel some calm when I come home.

Bethany Valenti 10:29

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 10:30

But they feel like they're constantly having to do things for others and it's not even, it's again, it's not even appreciated.

Bethany Valenti 10:39

Does it feel like they're naturally just gonna fill in the gaps for people? Like they're naturally more like giving, they're not like coming home like, man, I worked all day. it's your turn, to do dinner, or whatever it is. Like it? Or is it like, oh, like I gotta make sure everyone's happy.

Maria Zabeti-California 10:55

exactly. So that is one thing. I gotta make sure that everybody's happy. What could I do? But then, gosh, I'm tired.

Bethany Valenti 11:02

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 11:03

and, and I love giving to people 'cause it makes me feel good.

Bethany Valenti 11:07

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 11:08

makes me feel needed. You know, and, but at the same time it's like, ugh, I am so tired. I don't know how I'm going to be able to continue until, you know, the rest of the day. a constant,

Bethany Valenti 11:20

How can I keep up with this? Yeah. I would imagine that's like super affected by what phase of life they're in too.

Maria Zabeti-California 11:26

yes. Yes,

Bethany Valenti 11:28

Like if they're parents or not, for instance, or if their students are not,

Maria Zabeti-California 11:31

exactly. I think they, the parenting, definitely. that's a whole different level there of stress. Because of course their, their children are there and they need to be able to come home and you know, especially women, they need to come home and they need to make sure that the kids have dinner and that their homework is taken care of and that, you know, and maybe the spouse is, you know, needing something.

Bethany Valenti 11:57

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 11:58

And so they have to go and they have to, you know, take care of and make sure the spouse is, is okay and happy and ready to move forward with the, the day or the evening really.

Bethany Valenti 12:10

Yeah. where does the, like lack of appreciation come from? Is it that, does it come more from a. Buildup of people not saying thank you, or is it like a, they're constantly asking me for things. Is it I can't get any sort of break. I'm thinking of what I would guess could come up for somebody with this.

Maria Zabeti-California 12:32

for me, I see they tend to feel yes, they, that nobody really says, thank you, just a simple thank you, or, I really appreciate what you did for me there.

Bethany Valenti 12:42

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 12:43

But also it's the expectation. The expectation,

Bethany Valenti 12:48

of those two, I would guess.

Maria Zabeti-California 12:49

exactly. It's sort of the unsaid expectation

Bethany Valenti 12:52

mm.

Maria Zabeti-California 12:53

that they need to, they need to give, like, you know, and they'll say to the, to the over-functioner, it's like. What, where's, where's this and where's that? And there were function as like, oh my gosh, I, you know, I, I put it out there for you. I mean,

Bethany Valenti 13:08

know,

Maria Zabeti-California 13:09

just,

Bethany Valenti 13:09

you find it,

Maria Zabeti-California 13:10

yeah. It's, I,

Bethany Valenti 13:11

they,

Maria Zabeti-California 13:12

I,

Bethany Valenti 13:12

lack of an ability to be like, I, go ahead, look for it. Here's where I put it. Like, you're then setting everything down and coming in to try and find it, kind of thing.

Maria Zabeti-California 13:20

exactly. If the kids, you're doing homework, the kids, it's very hard to have to, you know, get up and then you have to go. Although you, you know, you love your family, it's just sometimes it becomes just very heavy.

Bethany Valenti 13:32

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 13:33

And then when, when they even get a chance to take a break at night,

Bethany Valenti 13:37

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 13:38

then they start to, ruminate. The day starts to ruminate, and they're like, gosh, you know, I feel like I'm doing so much, but I'm so exhausted every day. And then I feel like I can't even go to sleep. Or if they can't go to sleep, they wake up.

Bethany Valenti 13:53

Mm.

Maria Zabeti-California 13:53

Middle of the night, and then their minds are going, their minds are ruminating constantly about the day and about did I do enough and did you know what, what did I do here? Or I hope, oh, I hope that project got, was done.

Bethany Valenti 14:07

I'm getting a huge like sense of push and pull between, I wanna be appreciated, wanna keep people happy, and I'm also like kind of mad about it, like I'm kind of getting a little resentful about it. At the same time, like I'm anxious that I didn't do enough, but when I'm really in that tired place, it's like, you know, all y'all can just take care of yourself.

Maria Zabeti-California 14:30

Yeah. Yes,

Bethany Valenti 14:31

they can't because then they're in that situation again and feeling like they need to fill in the gaps,

Maria Zabeti-California 14:38

yes. Yeah. It's, it is the sort of push and pull for them because it's like. They're constantly, again, they have to give and give and give and that's that's very normal to them. Right? And so they don't, yes, they wonder why is that? I'm so tired. Like, you know, I'm so tired and I'm giving them constant giving. But they don't, but they don't have the opportunity to stop and really think, okay, why am I tired?

Bethany Valenti 15:04

Yeah,

Maria Zabeti-California 15:05

Why am I feeling some resentment coming in here?

Bethany Valenti 15:08

yeah. Especially when it's like, well, I like, I like being of service to people. why am I so mad about it? I don't wanna be mad, I don't want to be resentful. And it sounds like they also aren't getting their own needs met.

Maria Zabeti-California 15:20

Exactly. They, at least they don't feel like they are, they're not like they're getting the, you know, the needs that they would love to be able to, you know, receive from their coworkers.

Bethany Valenti 15:31

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 15:31

Bosses, their spouses, children,

Bethany Valenti 15:35

Right.

Maria Zabeti-California 15:35

everyone in their lives. And so there's that guilt as well, that sort of piece that comes into, why am I not being appreciated? But then they're like, oh, okay. I'm not being appreciated, but then I should be grateful. I mean, I have such a good life.

Bethany Valenti 15:51

Yeah. Look at all these things I have. I have healthy kids, I have a good career that I've worked really, really hard for. Let me think. There was something else that you said that I was drawn toward. Oh yeah. It reminded me, I was recalling like that sense of feeling like you're maybe giving more than you're getting. I've worked with a lot of clients and this has been with like younger clients too, who have been able to notice it earlier on in life. but if you don't notice it sooner of like, oh, I tend to give more than I receive. it can be really possible for people to take advantage of that. Sometimes kindness is seen as a weakness. Do those themes come up at all in your work?

Maria Zabeti-California 16:29

Yes, absolutely, yes. I, I particularly have, you know, a client that's dealing with that. And so where they do feel, and they express that, they feel just, they feel like. They know that the people will ask them because they'll say yes

Bethany Valenti 16:46

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 16:47

hesitation,

Bethany Valenti 16:48

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 16:48

right? They'll say, yes, okay, I'll help you.

Bethany Valenti 16:50

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 16:51

know, because they do love, you know, and that again, that, that desire to, to serve pushes them and despite just the exhaustion,

Bethany Valenti 17:00

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And what like how do they find themselves do? Like, do they take care of themselves? Like what, how, how, how? Like where, where are they in the middle of all this? Like, what, what's up?

Maria Zabeti-California 17:17

And I think that's, that's the main reason I really believe they get to a point where they, they wanna see, you know, a therapist because they're not taking care of themselves. They're not really stopping and, and reflecting as much and or they're not stopping and taking care of themselves by doing things that they want to, to do that they enjoy.

Bethany Valenti 17:40

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 17:40

It's always usually activities of someone else, and they're sort of

Bethany Valenti 17:44

They're tagging along or

Maria Zabeti-California 17:45

tagging,

Bethany Valenti 17:46

or whatever. Okay.

Maria Zabeti-California 17:48

they're tagging along and they're just, okay, we'll do what you want.

Bethany Valenti 17:52

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 17:53

but really they haven't had a chance to stop and ask themselves, well, wait a minute. What, what do I want?

Bethany Valenti 18:00

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 18:01

What, what do I like doing?

Bethany Valenti 18:03

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 18:03

some of the hobbies I would like to take up?

Bethany Valenti 18:06

Yeah. Do they feel like they've sort of lost themselves sometimes?

Maria Zabeti-California 18:11

Yes. Yeah. That's one thing that I do hear a lot is that they feel like, they're like, oh gosh, they just, they feel so like, well, every, they, they're constantly talking about others. One thing I don't hear is talking about themselves in the sense of what they enjoy doing and what they, they like doing. Separate from that,

Bethany Valenti 18:36

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 18:37

from their jobs and their families. What do they like really? What do they enjoy? What, what is a passion of theirs?

Bethany Valenti 18:43

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 18:44

Some of their own, you know, besides giving what are other values that they have?

Bethany Valenti 18:50

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And do you do a lot of values work?

Maria Zabeti-California 18:55

I do some, yes, I do some values and let me just take a drink.

Bethany Valenti 19:00

What do you mean your needs?

Maria Zabeti-California 19:02

Yes. I'm meeting my needs. Yes. Very important, right? In order to

Bethany Valenti 19:07

you. I'll join you in meeting your needs. Okay.

Maria Zabeti-California 19:11

this, as the old saying, is wetting my whistle.

Bethany Valenti 19:14

Yay. I haven't heard that one in a minute. Yep.

Maria Zabeti-California 19:20

So, God, what was I saying?

Bethany Valenti 19:22

Was asking about your values work,

Maria Zabeti-California 19:24

oh yes, I do some of that as well, especially when I ask 'em a question, well, what do you value? And they kind of stop and they really have to think about it.

Bethany Valenti 19:32

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 19:33

'cause they really, or they'll say, you know what, I have no idea

Bethany Valenti 19:38

Right?

Maria Zabeti-California 19:38

do, I've never really thought about it.

Bethany Valenti 19:41

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 19:42

So, values work is one of the values clarification work that I like doing.

Bethany Valenti 19:47

Mm.

Maria Zabeti-California 19:47

One of the main things that I really enjoy doing with them, and I usually like to start doing with them, is actually helping them to see how they feel. I usually use a feelings chart, so it's a chart of faces and motion.

Bethany Valenti 20:03

Oh, okay. So you do one of those. I was gonna be like, do you have the feelings wheel?

Maria Zabeti-California 20:06

Yeah, I usually like, the emotions, I usually have a pretty extensive chart. I used to have those where the faces when started with those. But I then started to go into like a, you know, some more different to under what, either under anger or under stress or under sadness. So, so it kind of helps them to understand, it's like, okay, what category am I in today? You know, so they look at that. They look at, okay, well no, you know, I feel this. And, and they usually are able to express, once they see the chart, they're able to express, oh, wait a minute. I do feel this. Oh. And then I feel that,

Bethany Valenti 20:45

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 20:46

maybe then once they mention a certain, certain emotion. Then I just, you know, I really try to help them along in understanding what it is that, where, where does that feeling come from? Like what, what do they think you know about that?

Bethany Valenti 21:03

When, just to bring it back briefly, which I think that's super awesome. I love how like feelings are like branched out. My mom was a clinical social worker and I still remember when I was like a teenager, one thing she said was, the three base feelings are mad, sad, and glad,

Maria Zabeti-California 21:18

Yeah.

Bethany Valenti 21:18

and everything just sort of branches out from there. So I just. I love that, but I would sort of, I would like, I think it's so fascinating how like, sometimes we can think that we have a certain value, but our emotions will tell us that like, either they're not in line with what's important to us, like things aren't in line, or our feelings are actually telling us like, maybe those aren't the values that we sort of have anymore. like, oh, I thought this was important to me, but maybe it's not.

Maria Zabeti-California 21:45

Yes, yes. Because then they're able to process, they're able to process a little bit deeper and they're able to really look at it and say, oh, wait a minute. Yeah. Yeah, I feel this way. But then I feel maybe guilt because I feel that way.

Bethany Valenti 22:01

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 22:02

And so then the feelings chart then starts to I think for them I see their eyes light up and they sort of, it comes alive for them

Bethany Valenti 22:11

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 22:12

because they're able to talk. And then before they know it, they're like, wow, I didn't think I was gonna do this much talking.

Bethany Valenti 22:18

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 22:19

So, and which is, which is amazing. I, you know, and they even feel guilty for talking too much. They.

Bethany Valenti 22:25

I know. They're like, oh, I feel like I've been talking so much. Yeah. They're like, so sorry.

Maria Zabeti-California 22:31

And I'm like, no, no, you're doing great.

Bethany Valenti 22:33

Yes.

Maria Zabeti-California 22:34

doing great.

Bethany Valenti 22:35

keep doing that. I'd

Maria Zabeti-California 22:36

Yes. That's

Bethany Valenti 22:37

like

Maria Zabeti-California 22:37

talking,

Bethany Valenti 22:38

need more. We need more of this. That's

Maria Zabeti-California 22:39

yes,

Bethany Valenti 22:40

we're here.

Maria Zabeti-California 22:41

that's right. You to be able to, to reflect and process

Bethany Valenti 22:46

One of the things that like came to mind when you were talking about the values too, was that I would imagine that so many of them do connect with relationship as one of their values. like relationships or connection with people maybe, but that. So you could say like objectively, or they might in some ways be able to say like, oh, but I'm like helping my relationships, I'm fostering my relationships. Like I am doing all of that. Why am I not happier? I think what I was thinking of when I said that a moment ago about oh, maybe the emotions aren't actually saying that. Like that that value isn't actually getting met in the way that we thought it was. Yes, you're tending to your relationships, but are they like filling you up in the way that you need to be filled? Is that value the pocket of relationship value, taking up so much of your time and energy that you don't have time or energy to even engage in other values that would help you feel even more fulfilled outside of that.

Maria Zabeti-California 23:41

Yes, No, that's exactly, I feel that, I see that a lot in the clients I see where just they have to go through a. Really deep process. They have to kind of really think about it. And sometimes it's amazing to see when my clients have that, you know, realization that when they have something that they've never thought about or, you know, I'll ask them questions, right? To help them dig a little deeper

Bethany Valenti 24:09

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 24:11

into what they were, they're talking about or they're feeling. And they, they have a sort of what's it called? When the light comes on, for lack of a better word,

Bethany Valenti 24:22

Right.

Maria Zabeti-California 24:22

the light bulb comes on, right? they realize, wow, I just, you know, I didn't realize that this is how I feel. Or, I've never looked at it that way.

Bethany Valenti 24:31

mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 24:32

So they, it's really wonderful when they're able to really see that on their own. It's like, yeah. When it clicks completely for them. Yes.

Bethany Valenti 24:41

Yeah. What are some of the things that you, so we talked about values a little bit, we talked about emotional. What, what else do you find yourself using in your work with them? Work

Maria Zabeti-California 24:53

Well, definitely one thing that I really enjoy, I do an approach called cognitive behavioral therapy. with them.

Bethany Valenti 25:00

Okay. So you do CBT?

Maria Zabeti-California 25:02

Yes. So I do tend to do a lot of visuals. So, I do tend to maybe like, again with the feelings chart, I also. Do what's called a negative thought journal. So,

Bethany Valenti 25:15

Mm.

Maria Zabeti-California 25:15

so when they have negative thoughts, right? Because that does tend to come up a lot, is they have a lot of negative thoughts. They're in bed and they're just thinking, oh gosh, you know, my life is just, you know, why am I not happy? I'm just not feeling it. I'm, I'm irritated with my family, even though I love serving them, right?

Bethany Valenti 25:33

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 25:33

have that they have that what's called cognitive dissonance, right? Love learning, but, oh, I love doing this, but, oh, it's just too tiring.

Bethany Valenti 25:42

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 25:43

And so I help them through what's called a negative thought journal. And what that does is it helps them sort of really go into, okay, what is the negative thought that I had that really increased, increased my stress level anxiety. And then they, then what, what happens is that, okay, so I ask them what the feelings chart, you know, where, okay, you feel these things, but at what level? And then then they're like, wow, I feel this. I like an eight. Ugh, you know, this, I feel this really strong. And then I go on to ask them questions like, do you really believe that? what do you feel is really like, how much of this do you feel is true? Like, do you, that this is true?

Bethany Valenti 26:27

Kinda what those like sort of reality testing sort

Maria Zabeti-California 26:29

Yeah,

Bethany Valenti 26:30

Okay.

Maria Zabeti-California 26:30

exactly. Reality testing. And then they're like, okay, I see. Well, but I, I see this is, is, is true because of this, this, this, and that. Right? And then.

Bethany Valenti 26:40

like, I think it's often like, in CBT is describes kinda like, almost like evidence, like gathering evidence or am

Maria Zabeti-California 26:46

Yes. Gather evidence.

Bethany Valenti 26:48

so when they're saying I see it, this, this, and this, that's their kind of like their, our brains like trying to find the evidence for it, right. Of

Maria Zabeti-California 26:55

Yes.

Bethany Valenti 26:56

this is how they did this and this is, you know.

Maria Zabeti-California 26:59

Right. Trying to find evidence for and against

Bethany Valenti 27:02

Okay.

Maria Zabeti-California 27:02

they believe. And so once they're, they go through that, you know, that thinking process, then they're able to come up with a more alternative thought that it doesn't increase their stress and their anxiety,

Bethany Valenti 27:16

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 27:17

and they're able to, and usually they feel much better afterwards because it's like, wow, I, I really went into really thinking through this. and then I, I tell them A lot of us humans, we don't have it. I mean, with this, with this society is we're, you know, we're, we're raised to believe that the more that we do, the better. Right?

Bethany Valenti 27:36

Yep.

Maria Zabeti-California 27:37

that it's very hard to stop and think about what is it that's really bothering you

Bethany Valenti 27:44

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 27:44

and what is affecting you the most.

Bethany Valenti 27:47

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 27:47

And so that for me, it feels just really, really, for me, it just, it's so great to be able to see them be able to think and be able to reflect and be able to see that this negative thought was what was, you know, harming them in the first place. And so they really come to that and they're like, wow, this, this was very helpful.

Bethany Valenti 28:10

Yeah. Do you have an example of, like a thought of like how that can, going through that process, like starting from here to here,

Maria Zabeti-California 28:18

let's see. Okay. So for, there was one, I'm gonna get an example here from one of my clients. And I'll try to be as private as possible, but,

Bethany Valenti 28:26

Yeah. Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 28:28

Because I, yeah. So, this person who was really upset it, it was their, it was in their job and they were upset,

Bethany Valenti 28:37

Okay.

Maria Zabeti-California 28:38

Because they felt that their boss was really not appreciating them.

Bethany Valenti 28:44

Okay.

Maria Zabeti-California 28:45

And appreciate everything they do and how much they sacrifice and,

Bethany Valenti 28:50

the work they do. Yes.

Maria Zabeti-California 28:51

yes, everything. So then they're like, well, gee, I don't think my boss really appreciates me. I just don't think, you know. Yeah. He doesn't care. And so then, you know, we go into, well, how does that, you know, how do you, how do you think, you know, what are some feelings that come up for.

Bethany Valenti 29:07

Yeah. How does that make you feel? You know the standard?

Maria Zabeti-California 29:09

Like, what are some of those feelings that, you know, those, those negative feelings? Well, what I feel unappreciated, I, I feel irritated. I feel tired, stressed un you know, and then, then, you know, at what level and I feel like an eight.

Bethany Valenti 29:26

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 29:27

then so what's the evidence, for that, that your boss doesn't care? Well, my boss doesn't, you know, he doesn't even talk to me. He just throws stuff at me and says, no, I need you to do this. And then he leaves. Then when I try to talk to him, he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. He just sort of dismisses me.

Bethany Valenti 29:44

Oh, so very dismissive.

Maria Zabeti-California 29:45

Very dismissive. Right,

Bethany Valenti 29:47

don't feel like you have a voice

Maria Zabeti-California 29:48

exactly. So

Bethany Valenti 29:50

even a person.

Maria Zabeti-California 29:51

exactly. And so then, then is, is now going, okay, what are evidences, you know, against. That thought that your boss just doesn't care. And maybe they'll say, well, you know, maybe they're busy, they're really busy, and they're kind of having a lot on their own plate,

Bethany Valenti 30:14

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 30:16

they wanna be able to help, but they have also expectations. They have all these, so, you know, so we go into those type of deeper evidences against that negative thought that my boss just doesn't care about me. Right. And there had been other times where the boss had mentioned, you know, I really appreciate what you've done there. I, and yeah, I need you because, you know, you're, you, you do real, you do these certain tasks well. And so, you know, they, it's really easy to forget, right?

Bethany Valenti 30:48

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 30:48

The positives When there's so much negatives, or at least that you, there's so much more negatives thrown at you. It's very easy and so it helps them, the negative thought journal or the process right, of sort of restructuring, right? Those thoughts really helped them because they had forgotten that they were at one point appreciated. It's just not maybe, you know, not to what they really need or feel like they need.

Bethany Valenti 31:18

Yeah, I feel like especially if you're someone who might be like, have some more insecurities or if you might. I guess more like a people pleasing tendency potentially, or needing that validation. so it's like, well, well yeah, my boss may have said that he appreciated or said that I did good work like a year ago, but since then it's been nothing. I haven't heard anything since then. You know, some of those like situational factors of like what has changed or you know, or did he say it last week and you're just like really stressed? You know?

Maria Zabeti-California 31:48

Yeah, exactly.

Bethany Valenti 31:49

you for something last, but like, this particular situation was hurtful because of the context. Like, 'cause it still sucks to like sort of not be talked to directly.

Maria Zabeti-California 31:59

E, exactly, exactly. And there's just so many, and it, so it, it really does depend on the situation of that person. Right? It we start to dig. A little bit deeper into, okay, so what did happen? You know, what,

Bethany Valenti 32:14

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 32:14

was the last time you felt appreciated or when was, you know,

Bethany Valenti 32:17

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 32:18

so really it's some, for some it does, they do need to be able to kind of stop and really look deeper into, okay, well was I appreciated? Or, you know, like you mentioned, right? It's the stress. The stress really doesn't allow us to really feel any positive feelings

Bethany Valenti 32:40

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 32:40

we're stressed, we're working so hard, and so it doesn't leave room for us to feel too many positive feelings or feel good.

Bethany Valenti 32:50

yeah. Or even like be able to just hold onto that,

Maria Zabeti-California 32:55

Yeah.

Bethany Valenti 32:56

for much for very long. I know for some people too, like if you said, yeah, you did a good job one time, but every other interaction I have with you feels critical or abrasive. That can really take away from the positive.

Maria Zabeti-California 33:12

Exactly.

Bethany Valenti 33:13

like, huh? Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 33:15

Exactly,

Bethany Valenti 33:16

maybe. What does it mean that if he doesn't appreciate you, like really, you know, what, if you're not really getting what you need at your work manage that, is that kind of like the next step?

Maria Zabeti-California 33:26

exactly. And so we, we look further into that. Okay. So yeah, what, what are the pros and cons? And, and, and, you know, so if you feel that you know this, this job has more cons than pros, then let's, you know, let's, let's look into that.

Bethany Valenti 33:46

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 33:46

let's talk about that

Bethany Valenti 33:48

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 33:48

see where you would like to, you know, what, what you would like to do. What would be your next step?

Bethany Valenti 33:55

Are there changes you can make at the at work versus like looking for stuff elsewhere? Like just the variety of options that you'd have?

Maria Zabeti-California 34:03

Yes. And so we go into that. And so what, what are some of the things that we, you know, that you feel like you can do

Bethany Valenti 34:10

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 34:12

to find that appreciation, to feel like, wow, okay, my work matters.

Bethany Valenti 34:17

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 34:18

What I do does matter.

Bethany Valenti 34:20

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 34:20

it shouldn't be the only thing, right? That matters, right? It's just the person is helping them also to be able to get to a point where they recognize their own value

Bethany Valenti 34:31

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 34:33

rather than what they do, because it's easy to get wrapped up into Into their work as something that gives them value, that gives them, in other words, their own self-esteem.

Bethany Valenti 34:47

Yeah. That sense of self

Maria Zabeti-California 34:49

Yeah.

Bethany Valenti 34:49

Like it how it like defines you.

Maria Zabeti-California 34:51

Yes.

Bethany Valenti 34:52

talked with clients before about there are some people that can just go into work and have that not connect, but most people do sort of still need some sort of sense of meaning or something in, in the work that they do.

Maria Zabeti-California 35:06

Yeah.

Bethany Valenti 35:06

and yet doesn't mean it has to be like your whole self. Who are you when you go home? You know?

Maria Zabeti-California 35:13

Yes.

Bethany Valenti 35:14

Or do

Maria Zabeti-California 35:14

Yeah,

Bethany Valenti 35:15

work? Really?

Maria Zabeti-California 35:17

exactly

Bethany Valenti 35:18

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 35:18

Some, some of them don't, you know, come home and their boss calls them,

Bethany Valenti 35:23

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 35:24

so then let's,

Bethany Valenti 35:25

about appreciating them and their time and effort.

Maria Zabeti-California 35:29

exactly. So then, you know, that's, that goes into another another basically approach that I have and, and I really enjoy, really, you know, helping clients learn is boundaries. Boundaries is really, really very important. Right. So I do have a client that the boss does tend to call this client after hours and it's like, hmm, I wonder what what's causing him to, you know, feel that he can call you at these crazy hours.

Bethany Valenti 36:02

Is it because you said, yeah, let me know. Call me anytime,

Maria Zabeti-California 36:05

Yeah,

Bethany Valenti 36:06

you know? Or is it because you answer the phone every time? Like, or is it really, because if you don't answer the phone, you start getting text messages, or like you hear about it the next day? Like what is the force? Is it within you or is it like from the boss?

Maria Zabeti-California 36:20

exactly. And so those are some of the things that we explore, you know, and and so then they're like, you know, they realize it's like, hmm, I'd like to introduce, maybe exploring more about boundaries.

Bethany Valenti 36:32

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 36:33

And they're usually very open to really discovering. It's like, okay, what, what are boundaries? What is that? You know?

Bethany Valenti 36:39

Yeah. Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 36:39

So let's look at how we can, be able to set those boundaries.

Bethany Valenti 36:44

But.

Maria Zabeti-California 36:44

we can do it slowly, right? Because it boundaries, it's kind of look like working a muscle muscle. It takes time, right? In order to set boundaries. 'cause again, as a society, we're really just taught to not say, no,

Bethany Valenti 36:58

Yeah. Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 36:59

we're needing to be of service even as children were needing, especially when they, they've grown up or they were growing up and they were children and they needed to really need to be a child, essentially. They, they weren't able to, right? And some certain families, they're not able to, to be a child. So they, they learn early on that their needs are not, they're not valued, their needs are not important. And that needs everyone else is.

Bethany Valenti 37:27

Yeah. So the roots of it you find often come from childhood as well,

Maria Zabeti-California 37:31

Yes.

Bethany Valenti 37:31

often than not.

Maria Zabeti-California 37:33

Mm-hmm. Yes. and I'd like to always like, explore a little bit more about, you know, what their life was like as a child. What was, you know, who were they in, in the family?

Bethany Valenti 37:47

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 37:48

Were they the peacemaker were, they were the first child, which is the responsible one? You know, where, where were they in, in that family? And so it kind of gives me a good indication as to, wow, okay, so they were serving since very early. And so this has been ingrained and this has been the belief of theirs that it's hard to, to, to really undo.

Bethany Valenti 38:13

Undo.

Maria Zabeti-California 38:14

that's why for me, when I work with someone, we do it. Very slowly, and I'll ask them what is it that they need? Maybe that, you know, when they're confused or they're feeling something, they're like, well, what, what do you need right now?

Bethany Valenti 38:29

what do you mean?

Maria Zabeti-California 38:31

Right.

Bethany Valenti 38:31

do you mean? What do I need?

Maria Zabeti-California 38:33

What do, and they have, they kind of stop and like, yeah. Like, oh, that's a hard question. I have no idea what I need right now.

Bethany Valenti 38:39

yeah,

Maria Zabeti-California 38:40

Right.

Bethany Valenti 38:41

yeah. you were talking about CBT. Do you use, it sounds like, is there like some family system stuff in there too, or No? Am I making that up? What I'm hearing, like when you're The role that they played or just like the messages they got around, like what they were

Maria Zabeti-California 38:53

yes.

Bethany Valenti 38:54

maybe

Maria Zabeti-California 38:54

But also too, I think a little bit of, of that too where yes, a little bit of the looking into, okay, were they the placater? Were they.

Bethany Valenti 39:03

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 39:04

Were they a little bit of that. Not so much that, you know, but a little bit of that, and it kind of got me to understanding where they had actually started. Where did that, the root of that belief start,

Bethany Valenti 39:17

Yeah. Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 39:19

you know, and the difficulties that they've gone through that make it hard sometimes too, we, you know, as people, we have society, family, right?

Bethany Valenti 39:29

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 39:29

every, people receive messages that it's very hard you know, really hard for them to change. They change their thinking of, I need to serve other people, because there's just so many, you know, there's roadblocks that are put there, right? Especially with the spouse. The spouse may expect, the giver to continue to do what they've done.

Bethany Valenti 39:53

Mm-hmm. How's it gonna go if you don't do it?

Maria Zabeti-California 39:57

Exactly. Like,

Bethany Valenti 39:58

to handle that?

Maria Zabeti-California 39:58

well, gee, I don't know how to do this. Can you help me? I mean, you, you've always been the one to do it, or you've always been doing the finances.

Bethany Valenti 40:07

yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 40:08

You know, can you, you know, I don't know how to do that. Or you've always been the one to always keep, you know, keep the kids in line,

Bethany Valenti 40:14

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 40:15

or, or you've always been the one doing all of the housework and everything else.

Bethany Valenti 40:20

Yeah. Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 40:21

Why can't you do it now?

Bethany Valenti 40:23

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 40:23

So it, that could be a, a major roadblock, right? And the people feel even more pressure. The, the giver feels more pressure. It's like, well, when is this ever gonna end? It's this, it's, it's sort of like a, a hamster, right? Being right on a hamster wheel

Bethany Valenti 40:39

Right.

Maria Zabeti-California 40:39

you feel like there's no way out.

Bethany Valenti 40:42

Yeah, and there's nothing, like if there's no real change that you introduce, then it's just gonna stay the same like it does. I could see how you might feel trapped

Maria Zabeti-California 40:51

Yeah. And so it's, difficult, but it's, I really feel it's not impossible, right? Because I think that once the person gives, they give themselves that opportunity

Bethany Valenti 41:01

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 41:02

to really, really stop and think

Bethany Valenti 41:06

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 41:07

they can find solutions.

Bethany Valenti 41:09

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 41:10

They need that space. They absolutely need that space to be able to stop and be able to find ways that they can just, just little by little start to and begin to make small changes in their lives that can lead to great, you know, outcomes.

Bethany Valenti 41:28

yeah. Steps.

Maria Zabeti-California 41:32

It's baby steps.

Bethany Valenti 41:33

Baby steps. And I know, so that's, these are some of like conceptualizations or different like directions that you could take. I know that you also do brain spotting, right? at what point might you introduce that to some of like your, you know, helping professional people, your clients

Maria Zabeti-California 41:51

Usually when they start to for me, sometimes it may be getting through, really feeling amount of this, amount of sadness or anxiety about the relationship with the spouse mainly. Right. Or as a parent. Right. They, so brain spot- is pretty, you know, it's, it really does help for people with performance issues and, but mainly for people with trauma. So when they've gone through traumatic experiences, maybe a loss a loss of a, of a, a loved one. Like I'm working right now with someone that also has gone through that. And so we're going to start and begin brain spotting and, and really explore further, you know, how, how that loss has started to, you know, again, she, she feels just so much stress. She's doing so much. And so, so we start to do the brain spotting. When it comes to that, they have, maybe they constantly bumping with they're, they're having this this back and forth with their, with their loved one, or could be a mother, could be a spouse, could be a friend, and,

Bethany Valenti 43:04

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 43:05

There, or there's like a toxic relationship going on and they need to be able to process that. Through brain spotting. And so it really helps them, you know, to really stop and, and think about and be able to, and, and the beauty of brain spotting is that you don't, you don't have to, you don't have to talk about the, the actual trauma that you like. You don't have to go deep into it.

Bethany Valenti 43:35

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 43:35

And

Bethany Valenti 43:35

point you often give them

Maria Zabeti-California 43:37

Exactly, yeah. So I help them, I help 'em to realize it's like, this is, this is the beauty of it, that you don't talk about this because they can retraumatize them.

Bethany Valenti 43:47

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 43:48

And so I wanna be able to make sure that they're okay. So what, what, so I like to be able to prepare them with some good coping skills, breathing techniques, things like that. That are, they're able to connect to when they're feeling maybe their, their anxiety's a little. Really, really high. It's really high. Or they feel just this tremendous amount of sadness that they don't like those feelings. Then usually we will switch over to something that feels less difficult for them to face.

Bethany Valenti 44:19

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 44:20

And then once they're able to face that, they're still able to process that.

Bethany Valenti 44:24

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 44:25

And and so I, I've really seen some really great really, really great outcomes with certain clients that I've had who have had the past trauma, especially trauma. And they've been able to process that trauma and they were able, you know, some were able to process it within a few months

Bethany Valenti 44:45

Yeah. Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 44:46

and were able to, you know, overcome. Now it depends, of course, on the trauma.

Bethany Valenti 44:51

Right.

Maria Zabeti-California 44:51

You can't really you don't really know. Every person's different, right? And so I've, I've seen, you know, brain spotting really, really help them. Or maybe just even there was one another client that I had done brain spotting with, and they were having issues they didn't even realize and understand why they didn't like they didn't like their, their loved one's boyfriend or girlfriend,

Bethany Valenti 45:16

Hmm, hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 45:18

they just didn't know why. But they had had a very strong action.

Bethany Valenti 45:21

yeah. I just have the feeling kind of thing,

Maria Zabeti-California 45:23

Yeah, I

Bethany Valenti 45:24

don't,

Maria Zabeti-California 45:24

don't,

Bethany Valenti 45:24

it. Don't have any, you know,

Maria Zabeti-California 45:26

I just don't like this person that just can't stand them. And, and I was like, Hmm. So then let's explore that.

Bethany Valenti 45:33

that

Maria Zabeti-California 45:33

What is it? Yeah. Let's see what it really, you know, what, what comes up? So they were able to explore that and months later I asked them, how is that situation? They're like, you know what, I don't feel that strength. I don't feel that that situation anymore with that person. I was able to see the person and I don't, I don't have a reaction. So it's,

Bethany Valenti 45:58

feel like it was like, because that person may have reminded them of a trauma? Was that

Maria Zabeti-California 46:05

that's, that's,

Bethany Valenti 46:06

unconsciously?

Maria Zabeti-California 46:08

well that's the thing is with this particular client, I ask them, you know, also ask them that, and no, they just didn't know why.

Bethany Valenti 46:17

Didn't know. Didn't know why.

Maria Zabeti-California 46:19

sometimes it's, you know, sometimes they're not gonna know. They're not gonna know. But it's nice to be able to be able to figure out what it, you know, figure out for themselves to not have that strong reaction that. Really, ultimately harms them,

Bethany Valenti 46:34

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 46:35

And be able to really lower that, that amount of reaction, that strong reaction, and lower it a little bit to where, when they approach the situation again,

Bethany Valenti 46:46

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 46:46

not like they're, they're just not having that really strong reaction.

Bethany Valenti 46:50

Mm-hmm. How do you introduce brain spotting to like your clients? Like how would you describe it with the way, like, you kind of say like, Hey, I wanna try this thing.

Maria Zabeti-California 47:00

Okay. I usually ask them, you know, so, oh, I noticed that you're having a really strong reaction to that. I was wondering if maybe we could explore, you know, an approach that I what I, that I usually have with clients and it's called brainspotting. So what I do is I give them a little bit of education, what we call psychoeducation. So I, I let them know what it's about. So I let 'em know that brain spotting is a really powerful tool that I use to help people to be able to process trauma or process difficult emotions. So those difficult emotions can be processed through. like, for instance I'll show you here, but it could be processed through what we, we'll start with a little pointer and and then, you know, so I tell them that and then, or I can be able to have you look at, at a certain. Certain place maybe look, look behind me or look at something and you can continue. Or maybe like when they, when let's say for instance, they have a very strong reaction and they notice that they are looking a, at a certain, a certain area. Let's say they're looking up, right, looking up and, but they're really upset and I'm like, I noticed that you are looking up there. Can you stay there? You know, then that's after, after I explain what Brainspotting is

Bethany Valenti 48:26

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 48:26

and then so you, you, you know, I tell 'em that you can look in that place and then you can just process and see what comes up.

Bethany Valenti 48:32

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 48:33

I know it sounds simple, right?

Bethany Valenti 48:34

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 48:35

but it's, it's really, really a powerful way to be able to help them see that where they look, you know, they can be able to actually process from and heal from.

Bethany Valenti 48:46

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 48:47

From, you know, 'cause people typically, when we all, when we talk, we're always looking, right, we're, we're looking this way, we're looking that way, or we're looking down. Right. We typically don't always stare at each other

Bethany Valenti 48:58

entire time.

Maria Zabeti-California 48:59

the whole time. Right? Yeah. So they're always looking when they're, and then when they're talking about something that really distresses, that really, really causes a lot of pain for them,

Bethany Valenti 49:09

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 49:10

then they're looking at, at a certain place. So we try to figure out where, where that where they're looking at is bothering the most. Right. So maybe they may be looking at them, looking at a certain, let's say they're looking up and I'll ask them. Okay. So when you are looking up and you're thinking about that, tell me what intensity you feel, you know, the feelings of sadness or the feelings of anxiety. And they'll say, oh, I think I feel it. Like, you know, and then I'll say, anywhere from zero to 10. How, how do you, you know, where are you? What are you experiencing? Oh, they'll say like, it's late. Okay, so then tell me where. And so basically I also let them, you know, let them know. And I bring them to their body. So I ask them, so where in your body, you know, what are you feeling in your body now? What's going on there? Do you feel anything in your body? And they're like, well, I feel tightness. I feel tightness in my shoulders. I feel tightness in, like, my chest feels tight. Okay, so let's, let's stay there. And then they'll start to process. They'll still continue to look at that one spot and they'll, they'll continue to process. Some of them are, will talk through the whole situation if they want to, but some will just stay quiet and they'll look and process that.

Bethany Valenti 50:31

Hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 50:32

Then, then later we, we just talk about it after, you know, after we

Bethany Valenti 50:36

Yeah. So there's kind of like a debrief as it were

Maria Zabeti-California 50:39

yes. Much more deep, deep really going into, you know, some really deep processing about that specific situation that was troubling for them.

Bethany Valenti 50:50

yeah. How do they tend to respond when you introduce it? are most of 'em pretty open to it or?

Maria Zabeti-California 50:57

Yeah. I think, you know, amazed them yet they are very open to, because I think when people, you know, when we feel a high amount of stress, sometimes we're just open. We're open to, like anything that will, some relief.

Bethany Valenti 51:12

Help.

Maria Zabeti-California 51:13

Yes. Help. And I'm like, okay, I am. Yes, let's try that.

Bethany Valenti 51:17

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 51:17

So usually what I do also is I give them more information about it. So I give resources. And, and so if they're, let's say for instance, they're like, well, I don't know. I'm not sure. You know, so then I said, you know, why don't I give you some more resources on it? Give some information on it. You can, and then you can just make your decision from there. And then when we see each other, the next, lemme know what you think, you know, and if you don't want to, then we can move on to, you know, something that will make you feel more comfortable.

Bethany Valenti 51:47

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I've really enjoyed listening to. How you work with people and the work that you do. it's really, really deep stuff, like you said, like getting that connection that you, were wanting

Maria Zabeti-California 51:59

Yeah. I love it. I love just working. I think for me, the most enjoyable thing is when they get to that other side that kind of, use that analogy where it's like, you're in the valley, you're climbing this hill, right? You're trying to get to the other side. You're trying to feel like, okay, there's something, there's gotta be something better on the other side.

Bethany Valenti 52:20

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 52:21

So I use that analogy and as they're climbing, and then when, once they're up there, they're like, okay, I let them know, you know what, you're up there. You're up. I mean, how do you feel? Do you feel like you're, you're at the, at the top of the mountain? And so they'll maybe say, yeah, I feel like I am at the top of the mountain. And now you can see clear into, on the other side, you can be able to see so many things that you weren't able to see before when you were in the valley, when you were having such a difficult time because the stress was just really keeping you down.

Bethany Valenti 52:54

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 52:55

That it was making it hard for them to really connect, really connect with their loved ones,

Bethany Valenti 53:03

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 53:04

the way that they really desire that connection.

Bethany Valenti 53:07

Mm-hmm. I like picture them looking back down at the valley too, and being able to like, how far removed you are from it, you know?

Maria Zabeti-California 53:17

Yes. And they're able to even, yes. That's another thing that's a good point that you made, is that they're able to look down and say, wow, I really, I've really come a long way,

Bethany Valenti 53:30

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 53:31

and I'm feeling like, wow, okay, I can do this. I can do this thing called life.

Bethany Valenti 53:37

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 53:37

And so I love being able to see them at that, you know, at that point in their lives

Bethany Valenti 53:44

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 53:45

That I can be able to start, you know, connecting or, or they're happy. They come in happy. another amazing thing that I love is that I see, and I even let them know, it's like, I remember when you were, when you came in, you were looking very down. You were looking down and you were looking like stressed. Yeah. I can see the stress in your face. I can see the pain. And then once they are on that other side,

Bethany Valenti 54:11

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 54:12

see this, this light, almost like,

Bethany Valenti 54:15

Yeah. They just feel lighter and, yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 54:17

oh, it's almost like, oh, you know, they're on the top of the mountain and they're feeling

Bethany Valenti 54:24

That's what you want for them, right?

Maria Zabeti-California 54:27

Exactly. And it just, you see that, you see that major change and it's, I just, I love being able to see that in clients.

Bethany Valenti 54:37

Yeah. Lovely. I love it. Are you ready for our wrap up questions?

Maria Zabeti-California 54:46

Sure.

Bethany Valenti 54:47

Where are you licensed?

Maria Zabeti-California 54:50

I am licensed in California just California only.

Bethany Valenti 54:53

Okay. And do you have openings right now?

Maria Zabeti-California 54:56

I do.

Bethany Valenti 54:58

You do. nice. And so you mentioned one of my questions is about theoretical orientation. So is it core CBT?

Maria Zabeti-California 55:05

Yeah, just CBT, A little bit of positive psychology. Just, you know, looking at self love, right? Self-esteem, self love.

Bethany Valenti 55:13

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 55:13

So I incorporated a little bit of that. And then of course, brain spotting.

Bethany Valenti 55:18

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 55:19

That's thing I really, really love incorporating to help them.

Bethany Valenti 55:23

Yeah. Do you take insurance?

Maria Zabeti-California 55:26

I do,

Bethany Valenti 55:27

Do okay.

Maria Zabeti-California 55:28

I do. Yes.

Bethany Valenti 55:29

and for those in private pay, what is your current fee?

Maria Zabeti-California 55:34

175 a session. Yes.

Bethany Valenti 55:37

Are you online or in person?

Maria Zabeti-California 55:39

Online only.

Bethany Valenti 55:41

Online only baby.

Maria Zabeti-California 55:43

Yes, online. Just need an array of people to, you know, be able to help.

Bethany Valenti 55:48

You can reach all across California at this

Maria Zabeti-California 55:50

Love it. Yes.

Bethany Valenti 55:52

Excellent. What is something that you, like to nerd out about or get excited about?

Maria Zabeti-California 55:58

Oh boy, that is, I love to nerd out on, I guess maybe, I don't know if I would call it nerd out on that, but sometimes Well, yeah, I guess I do. It's interesting 'cause I like to look at the brain there. I, maybe it's 'cause of brain spotting, you know,

Bethany Valenti 56:20

Right. Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 56:21

to nerd out on that, I even have, it's so funny, I know that your folks there that can only have all the audio, only probably not. They really see it. But

Bethany Valenti 56:32

We'll

Maria Zabeti-California 56:32

I have my little brain.

Bethany Valenti 56:34

brain. Oh, it opens up, yeah. Labels, all that good stuff. You got the lobes. Got the lobes, there's the cerebellum.

Maria Zabeti-California 56:40

Yes, got all the different main, you know, the main portions of the brain. I love being able to look at that. And I, like, I also, you know, I also teach clients as well, a little bit of that too, so they can understand what their, what's going on with them, you know, and how brainspotting does help them.

Bethany Valenti 56:57

Yeah. Anything that you're like super into right now? Like, are you watching anything reading or trying something new,

Maria Zabeti-California 57:04

Wow. Gosh, yes. I, I'm doing a lot of things. But one of the things I really do enjoy, and I think just for me, my own self-care, which I think is really important that's another thing I really talk a lot about very heavily on, is self-care. So one of the things I love riding, and it's gotten me through many difficulties in my life, as long as I've had this, I have an electric tricycle.

Bethany Valenti 57:27

Thank you. I was so hoping you were gonna talk about your tricycle. So it's electric tricycle. I didn't know it was electric.

Maria Zabeti-California 57:33

Yes, it's an electric tricycle. And that tricycle, I mean, I can, I can really move in high speeds with that electric tricycle, but I love it. I feel so free when I'm out, you know, and no matter what I'm going through, I feel that I can just, I just get on that, on that tricycle

Bethany Valenti 57:51

Mm,

Maria Zabeti-California 57:52

and all the worries seem to melt away.

Bethany Valenti 57:54

yes. Yes. I love it.

Maria Zabeti-California 57:57

It's amazing. Oh, I mean, it's, I mean, it's gotten me through grief. It's gotten me through quite a bit quite a bit of, you know, different situations and I, I just get on that tricycle and just feel the air and

Bethany Valenti 58:09

Yeah. Do you listen to stuff on it or are you just like, it's just purely you and the tricycle and the road, basically.

Maria Zabeti-California 58:17

usually I do it with my husband. Obviously he has his own his by bicycle, electric bicycle. But I, when we go together, we just go and we just ride down the street, ride towards a nearby college, which has animals. They have cute goats and sheep.

Bethany Valenti 58:34

yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 58:34

Just, and we feed them. So that's another pastor that I love. Again, I know it's giving, but it just makes me feel really happy.

Bethany Valenti 58:43

yeah, yeah. There's like

Maria Zabeti-California 58:45

Those are the,

Bethany Valenti 58:46

piece about it too.

Maria Zabeti-California 58:46

You connect with nature. Exactly. But then you see the beauty.

Bethany Valenti 58:51

Yeah. I tried a tricycle because of you. but we went on vacation and I'm, I'm not saying I'm not willing to try a tricycle again, but I tell you it was not as comfortable to ride a tricycle as I thought I was going to be like. So, I don't know. I, it was not electric to be fair. So maybe that has something to do with it.

Maria Zabeti-California 59:14

yes.

Bethany Valenti 59:15

but I, there was definitely much more of a learning curve than I thought there was gonna be because I could not turn the way I was used to turning on a bicycle.

Maria Zabeti-California 59:24

Yeah.

Bethany Valenti 59:25

I was like, this is, I like, ran over myself a few times, you know, I just, you it was, it was, it was kind of a time I did it on vacation, but, you know, I did it and I'd be willing to do it again, but was like, oh, a tricycle. I think that's, I think that could be for me because my husband and I have this kind of like running back and forth. Because I he doesn't like my dismount on bikes. He doesn't think I'm very safe on them. Like, and so I was like, oh, if it's a tricycle, I won't have to worry about that. And so maybe I'll do better on the tricycle. And I did not ride it well. I'll just say that, but I literally like rented a tricycle, you know? So I don't know, maybe I need to get one that's fitted special for me or maybe get an electric. I don't know. We'll see. So

Maria Zabeti-California 1:00:17

Yeah. It, it's different. It is different. You do have to get used to it. I didn't realize that myself. I mean, I had, I had a spill on it. It fell, but once after I've learned it was like, oh, this is amazing.

Bethany Valenti 1:00:30

I can do it. All right. Okay. I'll try to take inspiration for that. do you do coffee or tea?

Maria Zabeti-California 1:00:37

Tea.

Bethany Valenti 1:00:38

Tea, yes.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:00:40

I'm a tea drinker all the way.

Bethany Valenti 1:00:42

Tea drinker. Yeah, that's me. What kind of tea do you drink?

Maria Zabeti-California 1:00:46

Green tea.

Bethany Valenti 1:00:46

Green tea. I got a feeling I, I had a feeling green. Yeah. A good one. You have a favorite skill to give clients?

Maria Zabeti-California 1:00:56

Yes. For me, I think one of the things that, well, it's free

Bethany Valenti 1:01:02

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:01:03

is, is to be able to just go out or maybe even. You know, if they have a window where they're at. And if they don't, they can always go out and just, just look up. Just look at,

Bethany Valenti 1:01:17

Oh,

Maria Zabeti-California 1:01:18

listen to what's, you know, what's around you.

Bethany Valenti 1:01:22

yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:01:23

See if you can get to a place where it's quiet

Bethany Valenti 1:01:26

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:01:27

and if they're at lunch or something, maybe from work drop to a place that's quiet,

Bethany Valenti 1:01:31

Mm.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:01:32

right. And that they can be able to like stop

Bethany Valenti 1:01:37

Mm-hmm. Slow down.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:01:38

slow down. Right? So, so also, you know, deep breathing.

Bethany Valenti 1:01:44

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:01:45

So they can't, let's say that, you know, they live in, in an area where it's just heavily populated, they can so do some deep breathing. So I like, I like that. And being able to help them and ground them, you know, do some really some good, really good deep breathing with some of the grounding and some body, you know, sensations. Like really exploring the body sensations.

Bethany Valenti 1:02:06

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:02:07

They can, you know, get into their car, escape a little from the other,

Bethany Valenti 1:02:10

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:02:11

just get in there and just be able to start to breathe deeply and really get in tune with their body

Bethany Valenti 1:02:18

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:02:19

what's going on.

Bethany Valenti 1:02:20

Yeah. Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:02:22

So those are,

Bethany Valenti 1:02:23

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:02:24

you said one, but you know, there's

Bethany Valenti 1:02:26

Do you have a least favorite misconception about mental health work

Maria Zabeti-California 1:02:31

I think for me, and I, unfortunately I still hear it a lot, is, oh, you know, they think that. If they're going to therapy, it's because, you know, maybe the family members say, oh, you know, I don't wanna, I don't wanna go to therapy. Those are for the crazies,

Bethany Valenti 1:02:48

Oh, yeah,

Maria Zabeti-California 1:02:49

right. And so there's this misconception that, you know, that people, only people that go to therapy are crazy.

Bethany Valenti 1:02:57

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:02:58

Right. And, and not, not hurting, not needing, needing that space. So that's one thing that kind of, Hmm, yeah. I don't, I don't like hearing that

Bethany Valenti 1:03:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or like the people that are like, oh, I support you getting therapy, but I would never do it. Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:03:14

exactly. Right. That keeps another person from getting, you know, really what they need.

Bethany Valenti 1:03:20

Mm.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:03:21

And they, they, they so desire to really be able to stop and, and, you know, reflect on their lives

Bethany Valenti 1:03:27

Yeah.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:03:27

feel the support of some, another human being being there. And that, that, that really can be very hurtful for the person. That's what bothers me is that they're not able to get that, you know, because they believe the, misconception

Bethany Valenti 1:03:42

Mm-hmm.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:03:43

that therapy is really, it's nothing. It's, you know, it know. Why, why would you wanna do that?

Bethany Valenti 1:03:49

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's a tough one. So where can people find you if they want to learn more about you or what you do?

Maria Zabeti-California 1:03:58

Well, they can find me on my website at of course, www.zabetipsychotherapy.com. I do have my phone number on there. They can find me on LinkedIn several places now. I have a Facebook business page and I was gonna mention somewhere else, but I think those are the main places they can find me at least now.

Bethany Valenti 1:04:21

Awesome. Yeah. For now

Maria Zabeti-California 1:04:22

Oh, and Psychology Today. That's right. Psychology Today. That's right,

Bethany Valenti 1:04:27

Can't ever forget Psychology Today,

Maria Zabeti-California 1:04:27

right.

Bethany Valenti 1:04:28

Yep. Maria, thank you so much for your time today.

Maria Zabeti-California 1:04:34

Oh, thank you so much for really giving me this time to just, you know, be able to talk about what I love doing. Appreciate it.