Why This Former Teacher Chose to Homeschool

Melissa Lair's son knew his alphabet by the time he was 18 months old. As a former kindergarten teacher, Melissa knew he would be ahead of the curve in a traditional school classroom.

So Melissa made the bold decision to homeschool her children. 

In this episode of Let's Get Personal, Melissa shares how she navigated the early uncertainty of homeschooling, how she chose the right curriculum, and how she found a community that supported her family’s path.

Spoiler alert: Today her son is thriving.

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:03

Hi, I'm Olivia, and I'm through hardwork at learning app, which is how we get a front road to innovation and personalized kindergarten through 12th grade learning. On this podcast, we share stories of how educators and parents are helping kids discover their passions. So you can do the same for a child you love.

SPEAKER_06 0:20

I need to dive in. Let's get personal.

SPEAKER_05 0:27

Hi everyone, and welcome to Let's Get Personal Real Talk about Reimagining Education. Today we have Melissa Lair in the studio at Learning Lab to talk about her experience. I can't wait to see what we talk about. It took me, I paused for your name because I was like, I don't say her last name very often. So I'm like, I hope I had the right last name.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

It's like a contact when you still have like the old last name and it's been 20 years. Right, right.

SPEAKER_06 0:57

Actually, you guys go way back. Well, yeah, Melissa went to the high school I taught at. And so I sometimes think of her as her main name, but I'm good now. And then um Melissa went to education, elementary education after college, and then she made the brave choice to homeschool her two children who are adorable. They are. So we just thought Melissa would be a really good guest because she's been an elementary school teacher in the public school system. She is homeschooling her own children and they have like unique reasoning behind why they're homeschooling. And also, she recently joined our resident um homeschool group, which taught independent secular educators. And so she just had a lot of interesting things about herself that she can share with our audience.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

I'm a wealth of chaos.

SPEAKER_05 1:52

So well, tell us a little bit about, I don't know where you would like to start, but maybe talk about your upbringing through education and the decisions you made along the way.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Yeah, I can do that. Um I was born and raised in Wichita, and so went to uh Wichita schools all through elementary, middle, and then we moved out to Andover for high school. Um, and there was a big difference. I was like major perfectionist was is uh major perfectionist, like the straight A, you know, any extra credit, even though I would already get the A, um, really worked my tail off constantly through school, just trying to be the best of the best. And then um graduated from Andover High School, went to Wichita State to start elementary ed. Same thing. And then now I'm like, do I use my degree? Technically, probably I do use an agreeable degree in elementary education. But it doesn't always feel like that because it feels so different than you know what what we learned of how education should look like.

SPEAKER_05 2:54

So what do you feel like are those big distinctions where you're like, I learned this way, and now you're homeschooling. So like talk about that a little bit. Like, what is different?

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Um what so with in being in a classroom, so I taught kindergarten for six years um in 259, and I student I student taught fifth grade and then ended up teaching kindergarten, which was fifth graders made me think I couldn't be a teacher. Right. Fifth gradest like practice. Never mind. I can do the kindergarten math. Yeah, yeah. No, but no, it was like doing that was actually really good because I could see the end game for elementary school. So like I knew the goals of the things that the fifth graders struggled with when I worked with them. So I could start working on that with the kindergartners then. So like academically and relationships, I don't feel like that's changed. Like I still focus on the end goal and I focus on the relationship and I focus on the fun, both in the classroom that I had taught and then also with my own kids. Um I think the biggest difference is structure. My kids still need structure and I I need the structure, but I was so used to like the time clock of you have until this day to get all of this curriculum done. You have it, you know, this small window to get all of this information with your entire class, and I still function that way, and my kids do not. You know, my four-year-old, she just floats and like a little butterfly. And so she's like, Mom, you are rushing me. Oh, yeah. Yes, yes, sorry. So that has been a lot of unlearning for me. Back it up, slow it down, they'll be just fine.

SPEAKER_06 4:25

So that would be kind of along the lines of the personalized learning that we talk about all the time. And I know that you felt that stress as a classroom teacher because um you are kind of a perfectionist and you're very organized. I mean, as as far as what I know of you as a homeschool parent, you are one of the more structured parents that I've talked to. Yeah. Um, so in your classroom, how did you struggle to personalize learning?

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Um, it it was really hard. So the a lot changed in the six years I was there. We had, I think it was like four or five different principals, four or five different assistant principals. And so we never you can never really get into a flow. You would do something, work on something for one year, and then the next year we would have a complete shift and would be completely different again. So I think it was it was just really hard to figure out exactly how to reach the kids. I mean, it was it was very cool. Like when you reach a kid that has really been struggling, um, you know, from a kid who's switched multiple schools, you know, before kindergarten to refugees from Africa, like it didn't matter who the kid was or where they came from, when you finally reach that light bulb and you figure out, oh my gosh, this is how I can reach them, it's incredible. But you don't always have the time to do that because there are some kids that need you know that one-on-one all the time and they just don't get it. And when you have a class of, and I was lucky we had, you know, between 17 and 20 kids, but it was still just it was hard to personalize except for maybe like during our what we call tier time, where it's like 30 minutes of math, 30 minutes of reading, and you split them based on kind of like academic levels, and even that was a struggle because you could only work with certain kids. So it was it was really hard. That was the hardest part. And knowing now what I know through homeschooling, I'm like, oh my gosh, I did not do do those kids justice as much as I wish.

SPEAKER_06 6:15

I highly that's true. However, I do think um being in different teaching or education scenarios teaches you a lot. I worked for the Principals Association after I was a classroom teacher, and I always thought, oh my gosh, I never knew how hard the principal's job was. So it's just like giving you like different perspectives. Um so you taught for six years?

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 6:42

And did you ever think that you would choose to leave the classroom to homeschool your children, or what was your plan?

SPEAKER_00 6:50

No, so COVID hit. Um I I mean, like third grade, I remember distinctively a teacher, Miss Hood. I'm like, that's I'm gonna be her. I'm gonna be her when I grow up. And that was, you know, third grade nine. Um so when we got to COVID and we went online, um, I was like, you know, high-fiving kids, giving them hugs, like have a great spring break. We celebrated my son's first birthday, and then we went online and the world shut down. And um probably halfway through that quarter, um, our principal came in and said, Hey, we need to cut a teacher from this grade. I need someone to volunteer. And we had already cut a teacher the previous year. We had a team of five, and we'd cut one at the beginning or the end of the previous year. And then they re-added them at the beginning, and it was just so difficult for the kids, for the staff, splitting the kids when we'd already had them in our rooms. Um, and I thought I just I can't do this again. And so I quit, um, volunteered. They I was told it wasn't supposed to be me, but I did. Um, and it was like, we'll see if I can get through without crying, because usually I don't. But I cleaned out my classroom by myself because you can't, it was COVID. And so I I just remember dropping to my knees and just sobbing because I wasn't gonna get to see the kids. I wasn't gonna get to finish out the year like I thought it would.

SPEAKER_06 8:05

So I just can't believe they could do that to you in the middle of the school year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

I mean, I I finished off the school year, you know, like, but it was all on digital. Yeah. And so it was like, and so I not knowing, you know, I mean, I had no idea what to expect with COVID, but I told the kids, as soon as we get back together, we're gonna have a big party, like I'll get us together this summer or something. And then of course that never happened. So yeah. But it was the one group that I also had a Facebook group for to try and keep in touch in contact. So there's the some of the parents that I still get to talk to, which is really nice.

SPEAKER_05 8:32

Well, you know what would make a great place for a reunion party. I know, right? Learning lab watching. Yes, yes, and we would be fun.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

That would be a good story to tell. Yeah, yeah. Middle years class, kindergarten class. That's right, meet up.

SPEAKER_06 8:45

The disruption and education that COVID caused, I feel like there's no other industry that took the same type of hit. And it's because, you know, the good educators, it's all about relationships, and it's really hard to have a relationship through a computer screen. Yeah. So have you ever regretted doing that or what?

SPEAKER_00 9:03

I have not. So I've I miss the kids. I miss the kids wholeheartedly. And then I my goal before I started teaching was I wanted to be at a school long enough that I would know every I would know I would have had kids from every grade, day five. Um and I I actually met that goal. Like I had fifth graders that graduate that year, and so it was like, oh my gosh, all my babies. Um so I didn't I I miss the kids in that aspect of it. I probably regret leaving. But also I know how much time I get with my own kids, and I know I would not have gotten that. Once I left the education field, I realized that for nine months of the year I was just not me. I was so checked out with my home life. Um, and like I said, we celebrated my son's first birthday uh when I quit. And so those first 12 months, he was with my mom every day when I taught, and I would basically work, work, work. The kids would go home. I would continue to work until it was about the time for my husband to get home. I would go pick up my son, sit there until he said, I'm off, headed home. And then I would take my son home and pass him off because I just did not have the mental capacity to keep to parent and teach. And I didn't realize that until I had quit.

SPEAKER_04 10:13

So I feel that.

SPEAKER_06 10:14

I feel like that is like such a compelling testimony of what teaching is like. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

I mean, teachers I know.

SPEAKER_06 10:23

I always say that too.

SPEAKER_05 10:24

No, but I do think I mean I remember having I I didn't have a child yet, but we got engaged. And I think that that was my fourth year of teaching. And I think that like whatever was in my brain of like, okay, you're about to start this next chapter, which means like kids at some point. And I just that was my kind of that was part of my breaking point. Was like, I I promised myself that once I stopped like giving my all to the kids, then I then it would be like my time to go. And I just knew like there would come a time where well I can't give my all to my kids at school and then still have something to give to my kids at home. And like it that was part, that was definitely part of my logic for being like, no, it's time to go get an accounting degree.

SPEAKER_06 11:09

It was like Lydia was like, I don't have the emotional capacity for this, but I can look at it.

SPEAKER_05 11:14

I can look at numbers and I can find pennies.

SPEAKER_06 11:18

Um I wish there was a study, I'm sure there is, but on like the emotional toll that teaching takes because if you're in the right head space, you're gonna care about every student. If you're an elementary teacher, you have these deeper relationships because you have these kids in your room all day. But then I think about when we were teaching high school and we might have 120 kids. And how do you care for 120? I can't be cool. And so it's just um that, and then you go home and you're supposed to love your family. Yeah, like I don't know how to do it.

SPEAKER_05 11:53

And only we give so much love. I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 11:56

Yeah, it's a very special person it takes to be an educator.

SPEAKER_05 12:00

So through being a kindergarten teacher, I feel like there's probably a lot of families who like school is a it when they put their kid in kindergarten, it's kind of jarring for different reasons. But when you think back on teaching kindergartners, if you and maybe this is what you're creating with your own being a homeschool mom, um like what would you want kindergarten to look like for kids in any space?

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Yeah, I I would love so by the time I quit teaching, you know, the goal was for them to be able to write full like paragraphs and stories, you know, when they started kindergarten having no idea what the letter A is, some of them. Um and so I think getting to be intentionally slow would be so much more beneficial for kindergarten than the way it's just pushing, it's just a constant race. And so like they already feel that pressure by the end of by the end of kindergarten before they even get to the rest of school. And it's the pressure that I think almost every adult that's been in any kind of school, if you felt that pressure, you know what it feels like, and you're like, why you know, why did I pressure myself so much? Did it really truly matter to be that uh like high stakes, you know? And so I think let letting them be kids, you know, for a little longer.

SPEAKER_05 13:11

Yeah. Well, your daughter doesn't like to be rushed. My son doesn't either.

SPEAKER_06 13:15

Yes, but a thing is a gift you have reframed that.

SPEAKER_05 13:22

What's the word? Beholderism. Beholderism. That's it's like part of like there's like slowness, like crew and Hudson get to be in classes together, but Crew likes for environments to match the vibe. Yes. Um he wants to relish. He wants to relish his and like wants to talk to you. And it's just it's infuriating. But like I love that he wants to go slow. But I appreciate that you would want like kindergartners, they're just still little kids. And I think that is totally fair to say we're we're pushing them through the stuff too quickly.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

And that's that's the part that I think has a hindrance for me homeschooling now, because I still have that like that drive to like you have to be, you have to get through this and know this by this age. And and part of it is if we ever decide not to homeschool, which is not our is not our intention at this point, that I don't want them to get into a public school or private school and be behind. Yeah. Sure.

SPEAKER_06 14:18

And you want them to be ready for what their next step is, which I think is natural. But um your deadlines just don't have to be as stringent. I actually think, you know, learning goals are important. Yeah. You know, we think about that all the time with new alternative education models. It's like you have to still care that the kids are learning. You can't just go willy-nilly. But I love we have kindergartners in our 259 model in the building. And my favorite thing is I do think they get to play and run. And, you know, yesterday they were telling me I needed to eat my head. I mean, they just get to be silly.

SPEAKER_05 14:55

Yes, they were teaching me a monster language, and I was like, okay, well, who came up with this language? And they're like, Oh, well, you know, it's from I don't remember what they said, and I said, Okay. Thank you.

unknown 15:04

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 15:06

As long as there's not a test bleeder. Yeah, they it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_06 15:10

Um well, so then you were not teaching when Hudson is your oldest, yeah. Yeah, yeah when he was even like one or two years old.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

Um, just for through up until he was one.

SPEAKER_06 15:22

Okay. And then when did you decide that Hudson specifically needed to be homeschooled? I mean, because I love I think people, especially people my age, I'm old, um, feel feel feel that most people homeschool for faith-based reasons or because they don't they want to protect their children for something or something like that. But you were a good example of someone who had a completely different reason for homeschooling.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Yeah. I mean, you know, we're we're in that Bible belt area. So a lot of people I think do choose to homeschool based on faith reasons. Whereas with us, by the time Hudson was 18 months old, he knew and recognized every letter and sound in the alphabet. He knew his name, you could spell it out. And he's like, that says Hudson. I'm like, oh my gosh, this kid knows more than some of the fifth graders I had taught. And so at that point, I was like, I would not have been able to do what I needed to do for him in my classroom. And I felt, I mean, I felt like I was really dedicated and was a really good teacher. But the way the system is set up, if your kid is above average, um, on the you know, the test that they set up, like I think all kids are are above average in whatever strengths that they have, obviously. But you know, if if on those academic levels, if they're considered above average, you know, even during those those tier times where I feel like you could personalize a little bit more, your above average kids are usually in a group independently working at five. You know, they're they're five and six, and yet you're expecting them just to sit there and hope that they stay on task so that you can bring up those um below average kids and get them where they can still continue on. And so while it's important, I knew full well that that wasn't gonna work for my son. So, and like behavior wise, he's great. Like I'm sure he would have been like you know the little angel in the classroom. But academic, I'm like, he would be bored. He'd be bored, and then he probably would start acting out. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_06 17:12

Yeah, you didn't want him in the corner with a work sheet.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

No, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 17:16

And so at what age did you make that decision for him?

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Oh my gosh. I we him hawed over it over and over. I mean, I think it was like, hey, you know, it's I think it's the time you're supposed to start enrolling kids in public school. Like the time is now to decide. And so we had talked about, like I said, since he was 18 months old, and by the time um it was time to enroll in school, we're like, let's let's do it. And so I said, you know, I know I can at least do K1, you know, I've done that, you know, you know, on my own. So we'll just reassess every year. And if we feel like it's not working, um, then we can always, you know, switch it up and figure out what to do instead. And so far it's been working every year. The kids love it. I don't know. Honestly, the biggest reason we homeschool is because they would not be able to eat their lunch in time. No, no, seriously though.

SPEAKER_05 18:04

But they would have to wake up too early, you would rush them out of the house. Yes. And everybody's just annoyed. It's 7 30 in the morning. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

I'm like, okay, like a little bit of a little bit of go, you know? Yeah, yeah. That's fine. But yeah, no, it no, yeah. The I we've we've made a really good choice for sure for our family.

SPEAKER_05 18:24

When you socialized with people that you were going to homeschool, what did you what were people's reactions? What did you hear? Was it received wow? Was there skepticism?

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Um it's I have gracefully explained it to a lot of people in a way that they've they understand now. Um but yeah, at first it was a lot of oh, okay, well, I mean, you were a teacher, so you could do it. But also like I know tons of people who are fantastic homeschoolers and have no education background. You know? Right. Um and then you know, I've got others that they still are like, well, we you know are you gonna do all the way through high school? Like, I mean, that's the plan. Obviously, I'm gonna outsource more when we get there, but you know, it's it's it's hard because it it's it's not traditional. And so there's so much unknown. I don't have anybody in my family that's ever done it. So I don't have anybody to turn to to ask questions for. And so there's been a lot of like, well, what do you do when you get to high school? How do you how do they have a transcript? How do they have a GPA? And and so it's it's it's been nice to hear that there are colleges that specifically will look for homeschool kids because they're like they know they have this massively well-rounded education, they can socialize with kids outside of their age range. For me, that's a struggle. They're they socialize me, let me tell you. So it's like some of those pushbacks. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 19:48

You know, I heard you because I ran into you and Aaron at the homeschool expo like two years ago now.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

He probably it wasn't last spring, was it? I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 19:57

It was probably two years ago.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Um it was before you guys started here. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 20:01

So it was two years ago. Um, and even at the time, I just felt like you were struggling, like you know how to teach. You knew what a curriculum looked like, you knew what the you know what a kindergarten quote unquote should know. Yeah, but you were worried about finding your people.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 20:19

So I mean, and I still find it to be the largest mystery how people get associated with the homeschool group or a co-op. Because like I'm trying to be their friend and it's really hard for a learning to get to know them. So it's like, how do you yeah? Talk the oh, talk about because to me, I thought teaching was a lonely job because you're the only adult in the room. Right. People don't think about that. But being a homeschool parent, if you don't have like your people, so talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

So yeah, this is well, this is what I consider our official second year. We did two years of pre-K at home with Hudson, and then we he's in first grade now, so we've done K in that one. Um, so I technically fourth, I guess. Um finding your group, your people who is there to support you to be like, are you also going crazy today, or is it just me? You know, we have people from Wise now, they're like, it's February, it's okay. Everybody feels this way, everybody questions their decision and hates life. It's because it's February, it's not so I'm very sober. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, yeah. So it is like finding our people has been it was really hard. It was very isolating the first uh probably at least the first year until we found Wise up up here. Um because you don't there's there's a lot going on. I think I've I think I might have told at least you this before. It feels like the Harry Potter like nine and three quarter platform um where he's like, where is this platform? How am I supposed to go to train? And people are like, dude, it's right here, you know. That's how it feels with homeschool. You're like, where are all the other people who you know want to be kind of structured or care about their kids? Or like where where are these homeschool families that that that I can be friends with? And you have no idea, and then all of a sudden, Cammy. Shows up and she's like, Hey, it's right here. You've been you've been you've been close, but not quite there the whole time.

SPEAKER_06 22:04

So um, which I'm that's such a great story because it's uh I mean, I feel like so many people come here when they're deciding to homeschool and they're looking for a community. Yeah, and I would love to help them and I tell them join Learning Lab, come hang out. And you know, luckily Wise is at Learning Lab, so that's good. But yeah, but if you're just up here, like we have a new homeschool family member here today, and I chat chatted with them several times, but it can't just be the staff of Learning Lab that are your yeah, it's it's hard.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

I mean, I know there's there's countless Facebook groups, but until you are with that group, with the people, see how they function, you you're like, I don't I don't know if these are the people who are my people or if I'm their people. So I mean, Wise, the way Wise does it is was really nice because I mean it was kind of anxious. Kind of made me anxious because you have to do like three trial events to make sure we're all a good fit. But after we did that, I was like, that makes perfect sense because we've we've quit co-ops before because we're like, I just you know it doesn't seem like that's are the right fit for us. And and so it's it's it's stressful, but but yeah, when you do find your community and there's a wide like I said, there's a wide range, it it's really worth it.

SPEAKER_05 23:14

Yeah. You got a date before you get married. Yeah, pretty much who knew that applies to homeschooling. Yeah. Um so okay, so you you found a community, but I'm sure I think another thing we also I have heard a lot is just like it seems overwhelming to figure out like where do you like where do you start? You have again a unique perspective because you taught at the age range where you're you know your kids are entering into education. So, but like yeah, like I don't know. How do you start? Like, what do you do? Where do you start?

SPEAKER_06 23:47

What's the advice?

SPEAKER_05 23:48

I still don't know.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Winging it. Yeah. No, I mean, there's so many, I mean, I know a lot of people will say, you know, figure out your your method. There's I there's you know, we I consider us as eclectic because we just kind of like pick and choose and grab from whatever works. Like we've got two reading curriculums that we're using right now. Um, one that's really trying to help Hudson become a better reader and understand the rules because he's such a rule-oriented thinker. Um, but then we're using the reading curriculum I had been using because it's free. And it's I mean it's been decent, but it teaches some of those other skills that I know I taught when I when I was in the classroom. Um so it's you just kind of have to it's it's hard because you don't want to blow a bunch of money on trying to figure out what fits your family, but there's not a way to test it unless you've blown a bunch of money. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:39

So my comparison for this is um as a new with a mom with a newborn, I'm supposed to find the bottle that'll work or the you know, the pacifier or the swaddle, and you can it's the same in Googling thing you can do the rest of your life. But your kid is your kid, and they are just like unique in their own way. And it sounds like it's it's maybe a similar experience of trying. So, yeah, like how can you find spaces and places to try little things to be like, oh, okay, like this works well without spending too much money.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

I mean, it's it's hard. There's having the community is is really helpful because you we curriculum, you know, curriculum share um to test it out before we go buy our own. Well, that's fair. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:26

Nobody's infringing on copyright laws here. The coach work.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Just just to test trial. Um so like that helps a lot because you can, you can, you can see it be like, okay, this is physically what it looks like. Because you can, I mean, you can flip through like little images on Google and stuff, but it's not the same as holding it and seeing you know the new paper smell. And um they have there's like lots of um, I don't know about a lot of, but like the homeschool expo has some different curriculums and they talk about it, which is nice. Yeah. There's been some uh I think there's like a used homeschool curriculum sale or something every year. Oh sure. Um it's I mean real chaos because I bet it is. It's just it's like just a big garage sale. I can imagine.

SPEAKER_05 26:05

I can't yeah. So I'm like, I don't know. Invite us to the next one. We just want to watch. We just want to see that is a good idea.

SPEAKER_06 26:12

We could make a really fun reel out of it.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

We could so it's I mean, it's hard. I like for us. Um, like I mean, I get on Pinterest a lot and I get ideas or I file, you all find a homeschool blogger, um, some social media and just see, you know, what are they doing and is it gonna work for us? And like what's hard is Alina's gonna start, um she's my four-year-old, she'll start kindergarten next year. She is a very different learner than Hudson. Hudson's uh, I mean, the same way any kid is, but Hudson's very first time he hears it for the most part, he gets it. He's very auditory and sometimes visual. Alina is very, very kinesthetic um and visual and tactile in every way. And so, like if there's music involved, like that's gonna be better. But Hudson is very much like, don't play me the music. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:55

So it's like of course, there are like different types of learning.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

Of course. So it's it's it'll be good. It it's I don't I don't know how to put it. It's like a it's it's a puzzle, it's a puzzle every year, but it's like so rewarding when you like put that piece in and figure it out.

SPEAKER_04 27:14

Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:15

Well, and I think there there's evolution in it too, to be like, this is what it is for this moment and this time, and but they're gonna grow up and they know that could change. Yeah. But I love Alina. She carries a certain I love Hudson too, but um, I love Alina's got just an air of whimsy to her that I just really uh you know, her in her outfit the other day with her.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

With the Christmas pants and the rainbow dress, Christmas pants, and the butterfly wings.

SPEAKER_05 27:42

Yeah, and I was like, girl, you are living life today. Um but I just I really, I really love, I can see, you can like visually see the difference. I know it's she's this. She's whimsy. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

That's the best word I have for her. And Hudson's very, like I say, he's very structured. Like technically, the month, the calendar says it is winter, so we will wear long sleeves and pants. It is winter. Doesn't matter the temperature. Like, you know, so yeah, like he's he's he's like, I need the structure, I need the schedule, I need the give me the rules.

SPEAKER_05 28:11

Well, and maybe this is kind of along that same vein. I went into so they both come to some of the Fun Friday classes. I went in um the later afternoon one with Miss Candace, and they must have been getting ready to like watch, they're watching Ron. Yeah. Ron's gone wrong. I think is that what it's called? I think so. Crew is very into it. Crew and Hudson are in this class together. But I go in and Candace, Miss Candace is like, Hudson, I will tell you when to shut off the lights. But in his mind, I could see him be like, no, we're watching a movie, so like the lights need to now. And she was like, I will tell you. And he was like, now? Now she's like, I will tell you. If you give him a visual timer though, maybe yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Oh, it's very sweet. He's very telling that every night. What are we doing tomorrow that we wake up? What are we doing today? And if it's like not full enough, he'll be like, so then what are we doing the next day? He likes he likes this, he likes the schedule.

SPEAKER_06 29:07

What do you think? Um, like especially with Hudson being ending first grade this year, what do you think that he like what are some of the tangible benefits you're seeing that you maybe don't think he would have gotten out of a traditional school setting?

SPEAKER_00 29:23

Um he he's a very anxious little kid. Don't know where he gets that from. Yeah. Um, so he's he's he's got you know he's got some anxiety, which I feel. Um and I know like mine was only I mean it it just compounded when I was in school. Um so I think he really truly gets to be himself and what what he wants to be and how he wants to dress. And and it's not one of those things that he's even questioning. He's just like, this is who I am and this is what I do, and these are the noises I make, and how I, you know, flap around and and he's he's like, I'm cool with it. Yeah. And so I think like on a personal level, on a personal confidence level, like that this it's it's trim, it's a tremendous benefit.

SPEAKER_05 30:04

So I was gonna ask you about I feel like that ladders into um oh, just the social and emotional development that we start to shape for our kids when they're younger. Let's talk about tier time because I feel like tiering is one of the things that as a homeschool you can personalize everything. But when I I feel like tiering is a very hot topic because of that, like there's there you're stuck with that group and um it it I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

Do you know what I'm asking? Like like or like in a like in a school, like in a classroom, it's like this is your group and you're there for a short amount of time until you've essentially tested it right to the next level. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:49

Yeah. And like so kids, I don't know. Have you heard the similar vein of thought of like tearing is detrimental to a kid's self-esteem wouldn't be all dependent on it?

SPEAKER_06 30:59

You know that you're like not in the smart tier. Yes, exactly. What do you think that does to a kid's?

SPEAKER_00 31:08

I mean, it crushes them. I mean, you can you can see I could see the kids that, you know, and they might be in the lower group because of language purposes, or because you know, had a refugee that came over and didn't speak English, and so she's obviously in the lower group, even though she is just this brilliant kid. Like, and it you can tell that they're like, why bother? I mean, now some of them like they have a drive that they're like, no, I can I can keep, you know. So trying to find that um that balance of you're not in a low group, you're in a group that just thinks differently. And that's such a hard, um it's just it's so hard to explain to kids in a public school system. At least that's how I felt, because you have the kids who are in other ranges and then they're like, well, you're in the low group. I mean, it's kind of like you know, sometimes you like put the trouble kids at the same table so they can bother each other. But they don't realize, you know, that they're always the trouble kids. And and sometimes it just it gives everybody else a break to get their, you know, but it but also occasionally they're like, wait a second, yeah. I'm I'm the problem kid. And that that they internalize that. So trying to find a way around that in a trip.

SPEAKER_06 32:12

I will never forget. Oh, it almost makes me cry still. When I worked at Fundamental Learning Center, so I was usually talking to families as their kid was getting a dyslexia assessment. I would just kind of walk through and make sure the mom and dad were okay and whatever. And after the kid got out, he was showing us a drawing that he did in the assessment, and he had drawn a behavior chart and he was on red, and he was like, My sister's on green because she's a good kid, and I'm on red because I'm a very bad kid. Yeah. And like, yeah, for some reason that just tore me up because that poor kid had the HD. That kid had dyslexia, he was not gonna sit still in school. That doesn't mean you're red.

SPEAKER_05 32:55

No. Well, it just yeah, that's they start to form their identity very young. And I think that's the challenge with tearing and in a at least a stagnant, constrained way. To your point, kids are not dumb. Oh, no. They know like why they may be in certain groupings of people. I appreciate when I hear people talk about it more as like you're at this level right now, you haven't mastered that yet. Once you master that, you know, like that's the benefit of this world that we're kind of moving towards, which is a bit more mastery-based and having kids move at the rate that they need to go. It's not true in every space, but when I hear tier time, it it's a little triggering for me. And I was a gifted kid. Like I was the kid who I was never in the low group, but I I can very like I can just like feel it now, um, having been a teacher and being around small kids to be like, oh my gosh, our babies are thinking badly about themselves.

SPEAKER_06 33:52

Are probably identifying their interests a little better than at school because they're not saying they like soccer because their best friend Tim likes soccer. They're not um and I also think talking about strengths and weaknesses, like I like the way that you said it, they think differently because a lot of the kids in the lower group truly think differently. They have like a neurodivergence. It's not just mean you're stupid, but the kids like a fundamental learning center that could come in and build whatever you asked them to out of Legos, that's a form of intelligence. So it's like teaching that you know, if you're not in this like homogenous classroom, then you're gonna be able to teach that like no other kids might be really good at this, but you're really good at this, and yeah, everybody's different.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Yeah, I've read a book recently called Gifted Indistractable, and it's about twice exceptional kids. Um, and it's it's eye-opening it's eye-opening for me. Um like as in within my schooling, but it's also so eye-opening because it talks about how just because you know you might struggle in one area doesn't mean you aren't gifted in something else. That's right. But like Hudson, there's I he's gifted probably in engineering enough. So like he's gonna be in engineer someday. If he's not, I will be shocked. Alina, she holds her pencil in the weirdest way, but her art skills are impeccable. Yeah, like she can draw, she can write, she can color, she can cut. I mean, like, made a you know, a uh Carnival Brazil mask this morning and gave it all the details of like the mask she had seen in the video. And I was like, holy cow, girl. So you know, and I think that's what's hard in the public school classroom is you're you're only focused on the academics, you're not focused on the other areas that they could be truly gifted or you know, just incredible in. But if it doesn't fall under reading math, it's like ooh, rough, you know, rough for you. And then they just they just sit there. My brother was the same way, he very, very smart. Um, but he would get you know B's and C's, and he's like, This works. Why do I need to try harder? You know, that's what people expect of me. So I'll just keep it here. And it worked out great for him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:56

So yeah. My brother, so I was I was the valedictorian kid, right? My older brother's two years old, older than me. We had classes together, which was joyful.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

He loved that. I did love that.

SPEAKER_05 36:08

But it was like I remember teachers comparing my brother and I to each other, like, well, you know, trying to motivate Andrew to do better.

SPEAKER_04 36:16

And he was like, I don't who cares?

SPEAKER_05 36:18

Like, I don't care. And he is now a high-ranking Navy officer and worked at the Pentagon, and he does just fine. And he like has, I mean, it just doesn't always matter, right? The good and I think that's just the grades don't always matter. Like, like what I think to your what I was thinking was we're we can get so easily focused on the wrong thing. Yeah, and it starts when they're so young, and then we keep focusing on the wrong thing. Um, I've talked about it a lot as like I think our little should be learning through play, keep it as simple as that. Our middle should be learning through exploration, and our big should be learning through application. And if we just would focus on like those as broad categories, I'm just really curious about how the world would be different.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

But I guess I think it I think it would be tremendously different. I mean, even I think that's like one of the things that hinders me is coming from school, is because I still am very much like, we've got to get through it, you know. So my kids probably don't get to play as much as they really should at this age. So that's the price of the thing.

SPEAKER_05 37:13

But I think what you do as a great job as a homeschooling parent is one, you're humbled and realizing like you don't have a perfect thing figured out. You're curious and like you're trying things on, and that's why we like to talk about education innovators as like entrepreneurs. Like you have this problem, quote unquote, of like you're trying to educate your kid and you're figuring out the right solution and you're pivoting as you go. But like I appreciate one that you are like figuring it out and you're bringing your kids around like Hudson and Alina are here at Learning Lab and they're around other kids, and you guys have the wise community. Oh, yeah. And you seem to value the idea that education is still a community rooted experience. So doing it homeschooling doesn't mean isolation to you. And I think that's an important distinction too.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

Even I mean, like I so I realized that I did pretty much only post updates on Facebook for like my family that I don't talk to as often. So they know and I had posted like our January-February update. And I told my husband it actually was really good for me because I was shocked at how much we had done. You know, it's like we had been to Ulrich, we had been um to Exploration Place, we had been to Wise, we had, you know, they learned how to make uh balloon uh animals. Yeah. Um, you know, they there's I want them like yes, reading and math are important, learning to write is important, but I want them to be as well-rounded and understand that they're not the center of the world, that they live in a world that they need to help just constantly try to improve.

SPEAKER_04 38:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Um and like we like we I read something that's like you're gonna homeschool, write a mission statement, so when it gets hard, you have it.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

And that was something we had written. Yeah. And so my husband and I sat down, we really thought about it, and we were like, we want it to be, we want to raise respectful, empathetic kids who truly understand that they are good and they bring something to the world no matter what that looks like, and they're gonna make the world a better place being here. And so whether you know they're top readers or top at math or whatever, yeah, I don't care as long as they they truly know how to love others. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:15

Oh, I love that. That was so beautiful. So very good.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

I know.

SPEAKER_04 39:19

That's so very good.

SPEAKER_06 39:20

Well, if only that was every like teacher and parents mission statement, then we'd probably be a lot better off. I have been impressed. I mean, I'm just like some random person and like, you know, an acquaintance or friends. Stranger on the screen. I would say we're friends now, but previous to you being at Learning Lab, just an acquaintance. So I've just kind of watched your social media. Um, I think you've done things that a lot of people don't do. Like you immediately created a Facebook group for the north side of town for homeschoolers.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

No, I'm not created with the names. I was thinking if you're gonna search, you know, search like North Wichita Bell area, trying to tell. I don't know the name of the group. I don't remember that takes too long.

SPEAKER_06 40:04

But I mean, like that takes initiative. So it's like you were trying to solve your own problem. You came here, you were open to different things. Um, you're kind of like a it's like you are not like a pick me girl, is what my girls call it. You're not like gonna be the person that needs the attention or needs to credit or whatever. But like Melissa's in our leadership program ed collab, and her to can you tell them like your idea for your project?

SPEAKER_00 40:33

I like Oh, I can't wait to hear it. I told Aaron this yesterday. I was like, I told this whole room of people what I want to do, and now I have to be held accountable. So I uh if one of the one of the things that's hard is trying to find, you know, decently priced and truly beneficial educational resources in Wichita. And there's so many, you know, hole in the wall places to eat or hole-in-the-wall places to shop. Where are the hole-in-the-wall places that we can learn? You know, whether it's a bookstore that we can just go and ask questions for, or whether it's you know, here um at Learning Lab, or, you know, I mean, like, you know, when we did the was it the Ed Clan Ed Clamp Camp. Yeah, and uh we talked about all the places on the map. That's where I got that idea. I was like, that's so smart.

SPEAKER_05 41:16

You know, I'll give you my pile of things I still have them and the map. You can take it all.

SPEAKER_06 41:21

They were very pretty.

SPEAKER_05 41:22

Yeah, I know. It was very aesthetically. It was a very satisfying activity. It was. So here was the activity. So to add color to this for people listening, we printed off a map of Wichita. And so one of Learning Lab's core beliefs is um learning happens everywhere all the time. And Wichita as a community is full of people, places, and things to learn from. So to Melissa's point of like, there are things in Wichita that you might not know about, but somebody else might know about it. And so having, so we took this map of Wichita and like drew little dots and like made little markers to be like, um, there's the troll in the in the gutter thing over the river keeper. Yeah, or like, but there's just unique things that are in Wichita that you know, you could go over to Delano. And I learned at that session that Hat Man Jack will take your kids in the back and show you how to make a hat and like talk to you about the history of Wichita at the same time. I'm like, more people should know about that. So I love this idea.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

That's the exact thought I had in my mind when I was thinking of this right class. I was like, that's trying to have essentially a database for all of this where I'm not Googling for hours and then trying to find reviews and then also pictures, because I'm that person like, where do I park? How much is it gonna cost? Is this worth my effort? And so if I even if you just had those three categories, yeah, seriously, though.

SPEAKER_06 42:42

I love it to be targeted. I, as someone who has done a lot of research on the Wichita homeschool community, I just feel like there's not like a central location to get information about this. I mean, and if you created it and attached it to an open group that anyone could access, you know, there's a really large Wichita homeschoolers Facebook group. Oh, yeah, but they aren't even allowing people that serve homeschoolers into the group. And so I think it really limits the information that they're getting. There is nowhere in town that I know of on the internet that you can go as like the source of information for Wichita homeschoolers. I think you could do it.

SPEAKER_04 43:23

Yeah, probably. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:25

I believe in you, Melissa. I really do.

SPEAKER_05 43:27

I believe in you too. Now I'm seriously, I come to my office, I'll give you this stuff after. Yeah, I will take that.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

Well, because I I'm probably gonna email like the Ed Club people, hey, who has you know any ideas? Yeah. And then email like, you know, our wise group. Anybody else have because I mean we like we did a field trip to Rock City. I had not heard of Rock City.

SPEAKER_06 43:44

Those pictures are cool.

SPEAKER_00 43:45

Oh my gosh, it's incredible.

SPEAKER_06 43:46

I didn't know about it except I saw Wise's pictures.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Cool, it's like I don't know what this is. It's like what two two hours, not quite two hours away. And it's it's just a bunch of massive rocks. And so you just you get to call and like love a rock. Yeah, and when I say massive rocks, Massive, like like twice the height of my six foot two husband. Like massive, you know. And so we just threw out some lawn chairs and camped out and brought lunches, and it was amazing. And the kids were like, that's the best thing we've done all year.

SPEAKER_06 44:11

I love kids. I love it when like Wise talks about they can do something super expensive and the kids are like, and then they're like, I like that one time we like colored glue.

SPEAKER_05 44:21

Right. Oh yeah. I know. I feel like my my son and my nephew did this recently. Like, you know, you buy kids toys. Their favorite thing recently was they made like just like fake swords out of cardboard and like painter's tape. And I'm like, this, this is it. Yeah. And then you're running, they're throwing daggers at Connor out in the yard, you know? Like they're not just cardboard ones. Everybody's cardboard. But like, that doesn't, you know, kids are just more creative and more easily pleased than we want to think about.

SPEAKER_06 44:47

Well, and that's one of the benefits of homeschools. Is homeschooling is I think you can nurture those creative juices more. I'm wondering if kids are gonna know how to be creative here in a few years just because of screen time.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

Yeah. Well, in between screen time, AI that thinks for you, you know, the Siri in the corner or the Alexa in the corner, it's like they really don't have to think for themselves. I saw a video and the guy talked, the guy talked about how trying to explain like a pre-Google time and how it's like you just you just had to know more. Like if you had a question, you just you had to like hope someone else knew.

SPEAKER_06 45:19

You know, I was getting my husband and I were having an argument about AI because he lives in 1985.

SPEAKER_05 45:26

He's an English teacher too.

SPEAKER_06 45:27

So like let's just a great teacher. But yeah, and he was saying like no one's gonna be able to think. And I I was arguing like when Google came out, you probably thought that, but here we are still thinking in 2026. Um, but your argument is actually valid of like people probably did know more like encyclopedia type knowledge. You I definitely think they were better with maps. I mean, there are things that um skills. But I just argue that you can learn from the technology. Are you going to use AI in any way in your homeschool environment?

SPEAKER_00 46:01

I have some for yourself or for the kids?

SPEAKER_06 46:04

Like, do you use it to help plan or are you letting the kids use it?

SPEAKER_00 46:07

Um, we've done both. Like with the EdClab project, I incorporated them into it and turned it turned it into a writing assignment for Hudson. Um and so I was like, we're gonna use AI and we're gonna figure out how to ask the questions properly so that we can figure out the responses that you know we want. Um narrowing it down to different locations and stuff. Um and then I've used it on my own for like we you know, we're doing like a watercolor for certain animal, and I spent, I mean, an hour and a half trying to find the picture of the animal, and it was like a very like rare trying to find the picture to watercolor. And finally I was like, I wonder if I could just put this in AI. So sure enough, put it in chat GPT, and it spit out in 30 seconds the exact image I needed. And I was like, Yeah, yeah. Okay, so there are benefits. There are it's the world impact that I struggle with.

SPEAKER_06 46:49

Yeah, that's fair. And you are such an empathetic person. I read your Facebook story, and I mean you just care deeply about everybody. Yeah, I really, yeah. Yeah, I do. It's a blessing and a curse, isn't it? I'm also a self-described empath, and so I I can't read the news every day. I have to like skip a day.

SPEAKER_05 47:10

I think the quote of the year that Kristen said the other day, and you can cut this out if you want to. She was like, it's a hard time to be an informed person. And I was like, that's true. Okay, it's so true. So I've quoted you several times. I just want you to put out. Okay, so for you, this is the question I love to ask most people. Um, like for you as a homeschooling mom, parent, it could be you and or your husband could be included here too. Like, what are your non-negotiables? What are the things that you will not compromise on? It's a hill you'll die on.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

Like I would say non-negotiables are are the kids knowing that it doesn't matter what they do, the number one is it is is parents, whether I'm their teacher or just like we still truly love them. There are children.

SPEAKER_04 48:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:01

But also like they as long as they're sharing that love with the world in some way, then I'm happy. I mean, yeah. It's not as much about what they're achieving, it's about how they're treating others type of I mean I would much I would rather much rather don't tell them this, but I would much rather skip school on that day so that they can go do something that's beneficial for the world that they're in. I mean, there's just there's so much there's so much wrong with the world, but there's so much good that can be done. Yeah. If if you know, we trained our kids to be like, hey, look for what you can do that's helpful in the world. So I think like, you know, and helping them understand that one of our core values would be doing for others. I say that, but like also not not giving up yourself. Like you have to keep peace with yourself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:49

One of my core values is interconnectedness. And so that idea of like I appreciate that about your mission statement and what you see for your kids is like we don't get to be human beings in a bubble. Like we should have a care for each other simply because we are human beings in the same existence and making the world.

SPEAKER_06 49:09

I really think that one thing would just really improve the world.

SPEAKER_00 49:13

Yeah. Well, like I so I have a necklace on that's like it's from a place called Where the Peace, but it's the earth. And my daughter there, she goes, Is that a quarter? And I said, No, it's the world. And she goes, Why do you have the world? And I said, Well, because I want to remember that I'm part of the world, and my job is to make it a better place for the people and the the part of the world that we live in. Um and I don't mean physically, just like the time that we're here. Um and so that's I mean, like, you know, we're studying uh Brazil right now, but I did it intentionally where we started in Asia and we've worked through Asia and Australia and Antarctica and Africa and Europe and we're on South America and we're going to the US last because I don't want them to have that was ethnocentric um thought process. Like I want them to know that we are just part of something bigger. Yeah, we're not the the center.

SPEAKER_05 50:01

So I totally support that.

SPEAKER_06 50:03

I love that. Beautiful. You have some beautiful stuff in you, Melissa. You do have a lot of hope.

SPEAKER_05 50:12

And it's important for there to be hope in the world. So don't lose your hope.

SPEAKER_06 50:18

Well, thank you so much for being here and for giving your time today. And I think you had some really great insights for people who might be either considering homeschooling, new to homeschooling, because I think it's a scary, I mean, I really think it's a brave decision. So you're brave. Very brave.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

It's there, yeah, there's there's easier days. Today was a great day. I am a great homeschool mom today.

SPEAKER_05 50:39

Yesterday, different podcasts. You were not, I meant to tell you this earlier. Yesterday I Googled it. Uh, there was a full moon at 6 43 a.m. Because yesterday was a day.

SPEAKER_06 50:51

We have you can tell about that full moon thing. We were talking about it before we started. It's real.

SPEAKER_00 50:57

It's well, Aaron, if you're listening, you better be listening.

SPEAKER_06 51:02

You know, he's the most important listener that we got. And thanks, Melissa.