The Confidence to Lead, with Audra Dinell, Founder of The Thread

Self compassion is at the root of growing into the best version of ourselves, says Audra Dinell, founder of The Thread and host of A LOT with Audra.

In this episode of Let’s Get Personal, Audra reflects on the teacher who first recognized her leadership potential, the joys and challenges of motherhood, and her family's experience with neurodivergence.

She also shares how she found the work she was meant to do and what she's learned about building confidence and community.

Listen to Audra's podcast, A LOT with Audra, here.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hi, I'm Olivia, and I'm proud and learning public. We get our product group innovation and personalized kindergarten through 12th grade learning. On this podcast, we share stories of how educators and parents are helping kids discover their passions. So you can do the same for a child you love.

SPEAKER_03 0:22

Let's get personal.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Hi everyone and welcome to Let's Get Personal Real Talk about reimagining education. Today we are so excited to have Audra Audra Dunnell, founder of The Thread and podcast host at A Lot with Audra. So thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Yeah, thanks for having me on. Of course.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Audra and I, if you're a listener of the podcast, Audra is who I went to New Mexico with for emotional agility certification back in December. Um Chris and I were both participants of the Thread. We're both alum. And her boys are here this week for Future Builders Camp at Learning Lab. So in there, so many connections. So many connections.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Yay!

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Yeah. It's really fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

Let's start. Um for people that aren't familiar with the thread. I I don't even know of another business like the thread. So can you just give like a brief high-level overview of what the thread is?

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Yeah. So what I say it is is a community for professional women. Our focus is to help women develop their confidence in themselves and their personal community so that they can grow and thrive in leadership and life.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

You said that a few times. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:36

Um, and it was a great thing to go through, even you know, I liked about it that the women that participate in the thread are all different ages, completely different backgrounds. You have entrepreneurs, you have people that work for corporations, you have like administrative assistants, all the things in the room. Um, there was a homeschool mom. Yeah, yeah. Uh the then she sent her kids to Learning Lab the next year, which was super fun.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Um but can I to Kristen's question? Like, where did you get the idea for it? As people who have started something that doesn't really exist other places, like Learning Lab, I think this is something we've been able to talk about. But where did you yeah, what inspired the idea? Where did you see it before? How did it get started?

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Yeah, well, we talk about the thread because just like what Kristen said, there are so many different women in the room, different backgrounds and lived experiences, ages, places they work, industries, but there's always a common thread that we can find and connect with one another. And as you probably know, we are in this epidemic of loneliness. And so during the pandemic, I was living in Honolulu, Hawaii, and kind of living my best life. I was home with my youngest and dabbling around with, you know, what do I want to do in this next season of my vocation when the pandemic hit? And my husband and I, after being away for 10 years, thought about coming back to Wichita, which is our hometown. And I wondered, you know, what does Wichita need? What's its what is it missing? What could I do vocationally in Wichita? Um, my background is marketing. So like I came up here in Wichita in marketing and worked in other markets all over the country. And that's when the idea for the thread hit because I went through this really great experience with women in leadership while I was living and working in Honolulu. And going through that experience, I was sort of at an all-time low in my vocational satisfaction, which was new to me. It really had only gone up, up, up from the beginning of my career, but I was about 10 years in. Now I was a mother. I was spending my days on paper looking great, but it just wasn't feeling purposeful. Sure. So I found this organization, and it's really where I decided to take my mask off. There was something about being in a room full of women leaders that allowed me just to show up and not be like my best self, my networky self, you know, the self that has said like the line a hundred times. Yeah. And that was a game changer for me. Gave me the courage to ultimately, you know, leave the job that I was at and take some time to spend at home with my boys and think about and dream about what could be next for me vocationally.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

So what are your um like we did the values activity with the thread, but like what were your what are your core, maybe your top three values? And then what from your professional world do you think was missing that was leading to that lack of fulfillment?

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Yeah. Growth has always been really important to me, personal growth. And a value I've recently learned I have is eudaimonia.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

And yeah, I was like, she has a weird word. Yes, yes, it is a weird word.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

It's my word of the year because I'm so obsessed with it. It's a very, very old word and it means different things to different people. But the way I describe it is just a life that feels purposeful, sort of like a zest for life, like an appetite and adventure. Um, and then joy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

I love that. Yeah. We've talked about um, so when Atra and I were in New Mexico, we were like, we're gonna camp. We're gonna not gonna camp, we're gonna hike all of these trails. We both got the map to the resort area or whatever. And we're like, oh, there's 13 trails. Great. We'll we'll cross them all off. We did not get it done. But we had this conversation of like maximizing, like, I think we were like, no, this is we want to maximize our time here. We want to maximize this moment, which seems to really align with eudaimonia for you. Do you think that's matches together well?

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Yeah, I think it matches together well. So when I was unhappy in my vocation, it wasn't I was unhappy in my vocation. Well, it kind of was. I was working in marketing for a decade and I saw these people who were really great at marketing and who had a passion for marketing. And I wouldn't say anyone thought I was bad at marketing, but I just like knew, like I just saw like the the thing that you can't like put your finger on. And I knew I wanted that for my vocational life. Um, and I've always been ambitious. So even though I chose to stay home for a season with the kids, there was still that stirring. I knew I would, you know, do something next. And so, yes, I think that that matches very much. Just wanting to maximize like this one wild and precious life we have. I love quoting that last line of the Mary Oliver poem.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

I love the idea that you're talking about when I was a teacher. I felt that there were all these people that were born to be teachers and I would like never even identified with the word. Um, but we talk about all the time how do we encourage young people to discover whatever that is. Is there a name for that? Like the thing you're meant to do. Um, but I also love your story because number one, I think it takes courage to make a career pivot. Leah and I have both done it. That's something we all have in common. Yeah. But I think a lot of people are it's scary. And you were moving halfway across the country as a really long way back. Yeah. So I I always wonder like, like Honolulu sounds pretty awesome. What made you return to Wichita to start the thread?

SPEAKER_00 7:47

You know, I think it was becoming parents, and of course, like my family was sort of luring us back here. And just the really it is family is the huge one because it was the difference between being able to see grandparents and have kids know their cousins, you know, a few times a year versus, you know, cousins stopping by on a Thursday night type of life. Grandparents, you know, being our support when we needed help. So family definitely lured us back here. But Honolulu was, I mean, just it was magical and it was just, I mean, truly the spirit of Aloha is alive and a real thing. Um, so it was just a wonderful place. And I feel so grateful that we had time there.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

But I have two little Honolulu babies.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Well, one of my babies is Colorado baby.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Oh, Colorado baby, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Yeah. And one is a yeah, Honolulu baby. But yeah, mountains and ocean. And we try and keep the kids connected. Like we try and go back a couple like every other year to Hawaii. We try and hit Colorado every year just so the kids still feel connected to the spaces that they were born in. Yeah. But I do think it's so important. And one thing that I don't know I was necessarily encouraged to do was find my gift and lean into it. And so that's what I love about how education is turning and the work that you all are doing to help people find what are your strengths? What are your gifts? What are you interested in? Because it's like, I just think I remember a middle school like survey that told me I was gonna be a lawyer, I think.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

I could see that.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

No, I actually went to school pre-law because you know, that stuck with me. Of course. Yeah. Um, but I don't know that anyone really pointed out, like, hey, I see this in you. And yes, you think it's very easy because it comes natural to you. But you can take that natural ability or interest and you can work on it and hone it and grow it. And who knows what that can mean for your future vocation.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Right, right. So what talk about your education experience a little bit. Um, because I do think it's always so interesting to talk to entrepreneurs like, okay, well, what was it? What what did make you build up those skills? So talk about Audra as a student.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Well, I went to public school. I asked my music teacher in elementary school if I could start a dance troupe that would perform at all the concerts.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

I mean, great. Right. That's awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

What did they say? He said yes. Oh, he said yes. He said yes. Okay. So, and he gave me space in his music room to, you know, get my little troupe together and practice during recess. He did unfortunately veto TLC's Waterfalls as our performance song as that song is.

SPEAKER_03 10:51

You can do the whole rap if you want. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

I would love that. The the meaning behind the song apparently is, you know, too mature for elementary schoolers, right there. But um, he was just such a great teacher to pour into me. And he wrote me this letter when I graduated high school. I still have it. He's still living.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

Like that's a dedicated educator.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Really? Yeah. But yeah, he just like saw this little girl. You know, there was divorce in my family and some chaos going on. And I had this little spark and wanted to start something. And he said yes and gave me the space and encouraged me and just sort of like followed me throughout my um educational career and and looking back, like, yeah, what a gift.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

That was a gift. Is that crazy?

SPEAKER_03 11:45

So how old were you? Like fifth grade, fourth grade, something?

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Second grade?

SPEAKER_03 11:49

Probably third, fourth, fifth.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:52

And it's like uh one, you know, I love hearing about people's like mentors or but how even at what 10 years old, this person could have like basically given you an indicator that you can do whatever you put your mind to.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Yeah. Well, and uh fanning the flame. Yeah. Right. So I my guess is not every kid came and asked if they could build a thing. You know, so those are the little things that in retrospect I can look back on my life because there was really nothing entrepreneurial um through middle school. And then in high school, I sort of last minute joined my friends at this DECA competition. And youth entrepreneurs actually started at the high school I attended. I was not involved. I I didn't even know what entrepreneur meant, to be honest. Yeah. I definitely couldn't spell it. Um, I joined my friends at this DECA competition and somehow ended up winning first place in this competition. I know it was wild. Uh-huh. And just when I look back, right, those are the little things that I'm like, oh man, I yeah, I'm grateful for my music teacher for fanning that flame. I wish I had more mentorship or guidance or or someone who could have said, like, pay attention to that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Because I feel like I was just so trying to go with the flow and be do what everyone else was doing, which is very normal, normal like kid behavior, right? It's hard to stand up.

SPEAKER_03 13:28

Especially in young girls. And that's one thing I wanted to ask you about. I mean, we work with young people, but I love that the threat is for women. Like, what what would you say that schools or educators need to do specifically for young? I think about teenage girls probably because I have teenage girls, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:47

But I I I went to a parenting talk once and they said that like it was something like 75% of girls go into a shell when they hit puberty and they don't come out until they're in their 20s. Wow. And that and I really resonated with that, like from my own experience. But I just wonder what we can do to boost the self-esteem of young girls.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Yeah. Through my work at the thread, and then this season on my podcast, I've been focusing on second acts. So it could be a career pivot, like we've talked about. It could be a lot of different ways people are stepping into their second acts. One lesson that is common in almost every second act conversation I've been having is the ability to build self-trust. And that's one thing that I definitely wasn't taught. If anything else, I was actually taught not to trust my body. I I wasn't taught like how to feel my feelings or how to read them as functions. I mean, that's for sure. Yeah.

unknown 14:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

But I was more taught, and I don't know where, this was not on my parents per se, just somewhere along the line I picked up that you know, I was wrong and the world had all the answers instead of growing that skill of tuning in, learning to listen to our own voices and our bodies and our feelings, all the things and developing trust in ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 15:18

Yeah. I love that as a lesson. I wonder if there's like, how do you teach that to a young person who's in a bubble?

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Yeah. Well, I'm I mean, I think it's a great question. It makes me think of I don't know if you remember, I asked Susan that last night. I was like, what is your wish for our kids? Like, what do you want? Like, what would you want the kids to grow up in? And she said self-compassion. Like if the kids if kids could just learn self-compassion, they would grow into, you know, just different human beings. I think about like and I think even like your little dance troupe story is a good example, right? Like kids experiencing failure in a safe, constructive way, I think helps build self-compassion and self-trust, right? To to screw up in a way that but you have to, I mean you have to have the right conditions around you to do that well. I think in our education environments, too often failure, you're getting an immediate harsher reaction than is required, than it's necessary to grow self-trust or self-compassion. So if you fail a test or if you wear the wrong outfit to school, or if you um, I don't know, everything just feels harsher. I don't know. That's just what you're saying. It's just it's that failure, say failure, failing forward, failing productively.

SPEAKER_03 16:35

Um that's hard to change. Like our generation of parents is not doing a great job with no that. Like I tend to want to protect my kids from failure. I think that's a natural like mom response, but it's probably not good for them.

unknown 16:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Well, I think there's the term, what is it, the term for m a lot of parents these days is um helicopter parents. Like you're just always hovering. Um, and we see that in our spaces a lot in different ways too, um, here at in Learning Lab. But I don't know. That's what makes me think. I think about especially as a girl, there was some sort of narrative that I had about like I needed to be perfect and I needed to be right. And so when I think about like that little like ingling that I probably had in the pit of my stomach of like, I don't really like this or I don't really want to do this, but I'm going to do it because I need to be perfect or I need to please the people around me instead of trusting my instinct, which was like, which is why I went to school to be an investment banker. Oh my gosh. I hate it. Did not know that about you. Oh. So it's just, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

I don't know. You are a mom. You are a mom. So you have two boys. How old are they? Seven and nine. How's parenting going? What how is how has being a mom changed you?

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Oh, being a mom, I mean, I feel like there have been two things that have majorly changed me. And one is being a mom. The second is being a founder. Because those things you're just gonna fail all the time. And you have to get comfortable with the failure. Yeah. But you also have to get uncomfortable with the certainty or the uncertainty uh because things just are not gonna go according to plan. And you still have to show up.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Yeah.

unknown 18:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

That's right. Well, and to be a founder is kind of like, I mean, the threat is your baby. It's just a different kind of baby, but different kind of baby and the same experience.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Yeah. Um I think it's really hard to put kids out into the world and support scaffold, I like that word. Potential failure. Yeah. But because of exactly what you said, it's it's harsh. It's like, um, so I think trying to do it at home is a you know, a stretchy thing that that we try. Um even if it's just, hey, you you didn't do what you needed to do, and the natural consequences are now it's bedtime. And so you don't have time to do the fun thing because you need to break up pick up the bathroom after your bath. So there's not going to be reading time. Um Yeah. So yeah, motherhood has just been such a beautiful, beautiful gift. And you know, that quote that like our children are the best teachers. I just before becoming a parent, I just thought, no, no, no, I actually need to like develop myself into this mature, fully formed human and have as many answers as I can, and then I will pass that wisdom on to the next generation. And then you get into parenthood and it just cracks you open in beautiful and hard to look at ways, like if you're really willing to look in the mirror. And there's just truly no better teacher.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Yeah.

unknown 19:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

What do you notice about your boys that like what are the little skills that you see kind of like surfacing for them? Like if you're just observing, you're what do you what do you notice?

SPEAKER_00 20:03

So one of my sons is extremely empathetic. He has been since he was young, young, young. It's just who he is. The other is super curious and entrepreneurial, always thinking, always coming up with a new business, a new, a new idea. It is so fun. Um, so it's just so fun to watch them be different and see little parts of yourself or you know, my husband and and the kids and yeah, try and guess what what's this gonna mean for them.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

So looking back for you as a kid growing up, like what I mean, hindsight is 2020, right? Like, what do you look back and you're like, these were the skills that were showing up that I wish somebody would have noticed if they had been observing or probably more curious.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Yeah, probably for me, public speaking is one that I've started to a lot do a lot more of vocationally and I enjoy. I never would have thought that going into entrepreneurship, but when you start a business and your marketing budget is nothing, you get in front of as many groups as you can and you talk. So I I wish someone would have um pulled that out. I think that getting me into debate would have been oh, so cool.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Which is why you would have been a lawyer.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Right. Even the thought of like, okay, if I got flagged in middle school with that quiz or I don't know what they had us take, you know, how was debate never suggested to me.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

Yeah, like what do you do with that information? Yeah, what happened to it?

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

For DECA though, did you was that your experience at DECA? Were you the speaker of the group or like the presenter? Or do you remember?

SPEAKER_00 21:43

The competition was sort of like a um multi judge competition, and it wasn't a stand up presentation. It was it was one on one with many different judges, and I had to sell a product. Oh, and that's

SPEAKER_01 22:00

It makes sense. But that's why that's why I was like, no, she's good at that. Not that you're always selling, right? But I think you're a great connector and and a good listener.

SPEAKER_03 22:08

You have a lot of charisma.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:10

I also would say one of the reasons you're a good speaker is because I read authenticity when you speak. That's one of my values. So like have a radar on all the time, whether I like it or not. Yeah. But um you're very natural at like just being yourself in front of other people, which is I think like a sign of confidence. And some some women never grow into that because of the bubble.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Yeah. Do you feel like you've always been able to show up pretty authentically, or that was something that you had to again, like you've just you've been shifting over time?

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Yeah, I've been shifting over time. I absolutely do not think I was always able to show up authentic. I think I just got to that point in my career where the title was good, but I be had become a mother and I just couldn't wear the masks anymore. And so now the way I talk about showing up is, you know, being my whole self in spaces, in every space, aiming to be my whole self. Sometimes I get to turn the volume all the way up and jam out. And sometimes the volume needs to be down a little bit because of the space I'm in, right? Um so I like that visual a little bit better because I just hit that breaking point, you know, in my 30s, becoming a mother where it's just like I couldn't, I couldn't do the mask thing anymore. It was definitely robbing against that eudaimonia value of like, I want to live a life of purpose and joy. And if it's not uniquely mine, if it's a mask, it just didn't match up.

SPEAKER_03 23:48

Yeah, I feel like does that also align with why you chose like women's leadership development for your your topic of your business, you know, because you want to help other women get to that place too. I mean, so many I think of like the thread cohort that I was in, and like the women are just like at varying degrees of comfortable with themselves, like varying degrees of their careers.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I I thought, well, I know I struggled with this, so I'm guessing some other women struggle with this. So let's see how many. And I would say, you know, starting the thread, I pulled in some research, and the research is from Kaiser Permanente, and that's where I found that women want to grow in leadership roles, but the two things that typically hold them back are confidence and connections. And so I thought, okay, well, I can help women fall in love with themselves, be confident, claim their gifts, figure out how they're getting in their own way, and learn how to not do that so much.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

Um, so I would definitely say when women come to the thread, it's not like women come in like, oh, I need help with my confidence. Like you said, some of the most confident women are in the room. Yeah. And maybe they're there for another reason. Maybe they want to make a pivot and they're trying to get some space to figure out what that is, or maybe they want their community that they kind of lost along the way, growing their career and their family. And um, but definitely it was me feeling like, okay, I can, I can if I'm having this problem, probably someone else's. So I'm gonna see if I can create something to help solve.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Yeah. So you moved back to Wichita kind of for the village, right? The reason the raising your kids alongside the village. Yep. The thread is a really lovely community. It sounds like that's what you found in Hawaii through that um, that leadership group. So it's like very community focused. What have you learned? So, like every education environment is like a little mini community, right? Um, what have you learned about building community that you would want to see more present, I guess, in education spaces? Like, how did you how do you feel like you built community in the first place? And then how like what would you suggest for people to build it more?

SPEAKER_00 26:04

When I was thinking about building the thread, I really studied Priya Parker's work and learned about the art of gathering and kind of creating containers and owning the space and being a facilitator. But within this space, um, that's where you co-create. And so I would love to see education move to more co-creation. You know, I didn't walk into this conversation having an answer, not being an educator of kids. But I think hearing their voices, giving them some agency will get them excited. And I think figuring out where that excitement lies, whether it be in reading or math or uh the arts, that that kind of leads to the next thing of okay, let's pour into this gift.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

Yeah. But that requires space, right? Like it's like we've taught, I think the thread does a great job of just creating space. So you can be in this room, you can be with these people, but there is space you guys don't overprogram the sessions to where it's like, no, there's not a minute just to have a casual conversation. I think that's something that to your point of like how do you co-create? Well, it's gonna be a little bit messier than you think it's gonna be, and you need to plan less and have there be more space. It's easy for me to say. I I don't mind the mess, and not everybody does um feel that way. But like there's a lot of educators who want it to be so perfectly structured.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

It's like the container, I think, is is the part where it's like, okay, if you can create the container, magic can happen inside of it if not if one person doesn't have like full control.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and to your point about learning from your boys, right? Like if you as a teacher think that you have all the answers, if you as a parent think you're gonna have all the answers, I mean, that's gonna be either a really hard way to teach or parent, or you're gonna miss out on a lot of really magical moments with your kids.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

Well, I do think teachers have to have like a certain amount of humility to be super effective. And so many that's maybe not fair, a certain percentage of teachers get into education because they want to like be in charge of something. They like the idea of like having their space that is they're in charge of the space, and that in my head, that's not the best way to do it. It's like you coming to your teacher with the idea for the dance troupe, or we have our cream creative minds kids. I feel like they come up with a crazy idea once a week, and Olivia almost never says no. So they're always doing something crazy, but how good is that for those kids? Um I like that answer. And I like, I mean, I wonder about reading that Priya Parker like book or whatever in in the headspace of an educator and like what someone would get out of that. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

That would be really cool and interesting.

SPEAKER_03 28:57

Um I was wanting to, if you're comfortable, talk about your boys' education experience. I mean, you don't have to name their school, but is how how is school treating the boys and like what works well for them and what what do you wish to see? Yeah. You I know it's you gotta be careful when you're talking about yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

We we do love our school very much, and one of my children, at least one of my children, is neurodivergent, and so that's a little bit of a different path. And they do go to a public school, and so they're public school sized. So I feel like gosh, the teachers need more support, absolutely, hands down. But the teachers and my kids' life have been just really instrumental to working with our family and helping make our family whole, not even just the teachers, the the the staff at the school, the principal for sure, too. Um when we learned one of my children was neurodivergent, it wasn't because like we looked at him and thought, oh, this is what's going on. It started with some behaviors. And you know, the teacher kind of worked with our family and we tried different routes, and we ultimately ended up going to play therapy. And then the play therapist recommended psychologist. And that's when we got the diagnosis, and we noticed, oh, his scores are actually high. So then we got to look into like the seek program. So it was sort of the school and the teachers who were willing to not look at my kid and just see behaviors, but to get curious and to bring, you know, me in in a way that felt safe and supportive. And it's just been a real journey and it's been a beautiful one. I mean, I just feel so supported by the school every step of the way. But, you know, going into parenthood, you don't know who you're gonna get, what you're gonna get. You know, it's like you only know your lived experience. And so through that diagnosis, then, you know, we went to some other support and I got diagnosed with ADHD. So it it has just been like truly without that teacher, that school, I wonder. You know, I wonder.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

Yeah. And so many times kids with neurodivergence are labeled like as more of the troublemaker. I will never forget, and I think I've told this story on the podcast before, but I worked at Fundamental Learning Center, and this little boy in his like when he was waiting for the therapist to talk to his parents, like drew a behavior chart and was telling us in the front, like, I'm red and I will always be red because I'm bad, but my sister's always green. And it's because they are frustrated, either they're bored or they can't pay attention that long, or they're struggling with reading. So what else are they gonna do? I mean, they're and then they're mad that they feel like everybody else can read cat, but they can't read cat. I mean, there's just so many. Anyway, I um I think that that's like remarkable that your school handled it like that and made it because I do think I from working in a dyslexia center, I think diagnosis should be like a happy moment, like almost like a moment of understanding, like, oh my gosh, I was so worried and now I have an answer. Also, understanding that neurodivergence, like the definition of that is that you do have strengths in some areas. You can't be neurodivergent if you don't have some strengths. Because if you, especially when I think about dyslexia, if you can't read and you don't have some strengths, that's not dyslexia, that's like a low IQ. So the fact that you have a diagnosis for something usually means you're really high in some areas. And so these families should be being educated in that way of like, congratulations. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

That's how it felt to me. I felt, oh, okay, now there's a path. I don't know anything about ADHD, which was, you know, our diagnosis. But now I have a path to like go down and research and I can uh talk with educators and just the support people in my world through this lens. And I can look at my kid through this lens. Yeah. Because, you know, becoming a parent, there is no guidebook. And so it's just been a great help to have a diagnosis because then I can just have a lens to look through. Not on not on everything. Some things are just still behaviors. Um, he's a young kid. I mean, like that's normal. Like, yeah. But it's just been really helpful to have have that lens and be able to dive into that research and just give me different things to be curious about, different questions to ask, different ways to look at situations.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

Yeah. I love that that whole journey has been like a partnership with your kids' school versus a I don't know, like a consequence or I don't know. It just feels more like a team effort than I think it maybe feels for other people in different places. But it sounds like you guys are have a real partnership with your school.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

I would agree. I do not think that's everyone's story. I feel grateful for that for sure, and have so much empathy for it going the other way because I think that's probably most often the way it goes. Yeah.

unknown 34:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

And I will say I've had to learn how to be an advocate. You know, when my kids first went into school, I didn't know how to advocate for them. You know, I really just thought like the teachers know what they're talking about, and they are the boss. And, you know, I was just like wanting to support them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:04

Which is a a good feat, like it's a good intention. Totally. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

But then I, once I started, once we got the diagnosis and I had the lens, I realized, ooh, I need to now advocate for him and help the people who are in his world see maybe some of the whys behind the behavior or the different creative ways we can, you know, support this. So yeah, I've had to learn how to be a big advocate too. And that's been different than I was used to. I didn't I didn't know that that was gonna be part of my role as a parent.

SPEAKER_03 35:41

Right. Well, I feel like when we were kids, or even like when our parents were kids, right? Like there was like almost a wall between the educators and the families. Yeah. Um, and it was just whatever the teacher says goes. No questioning the teacher. If you're in trouble at school, you're in trouble at home. All of that. Yeah. And um really the word partnership is I think the best way that schools can create community is inviting parents to be part of the educational process. I had a hard time, even my girls, I have one with dyslexia, and it was hard for me as a former educator to be complaining about what's going on at school. And I don't, I think it's a little bit on the school to make it comfortable for parents to bring concerns and feedback is welcome and we're working together for the benefit of this child.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Yeah. Yeah, we're working together. It's not that parents, and I don't envision this being you. So this is not me being like, I'm sure Audre goes in there. Um, but it's a it's a we're doing it together. It's not that whatever the parent says is totally right. That's true or like the right thing to do. Or like, I mean, like educator, they're still professionals, they have experience. I mean, it needs to be a joint effort. You could hear, I mean, I'm sure we all have stories of like just, I mean, as a teacher, former teachers, I definitely have stories of parents who are like, you don't know what you're talking about. My child's an angel, they would never do that. And I'm like, well, they didn't. That's what I'm calling them. Um, but it's just such a it's so tricky. Um, but again, even like that partnership requires a certain amount of space and like openness to um hearing both sides, humility from both sides, like this, we're all learning together. Um, that sometimes can be hard in certain education environments.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

So I think you're right. And I think partnership feels like the right word and feels like what we have. I feel like I have a solid team that supports my family and the teachers that we've experienced so far in our school have felt that way, in addition to the other staff in the school. They're always willing to talk, they're always willing to brainstorm ideas. The way I look at it as a parent and not an educator is they see hundreds of kids, and I see two.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Right. And of course, my kids' friends and my nieces and nephews, but like my pool of what I see not being in a world that works with kids is so small. And so I rely on them a lot to tell me what's off. I don't really want to use the word normal, but yeah, you know, yeah, is this age appropriate? Do you see this among peers? Like, is this a thing? Or, you know, like, so I think partnership is just the right word because without one or other, I mean it just would not be the whole pie.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

Yeah. Without me telling, you know, sharing what I know and what's going on in our home or, you know, what's come up with a diagnosis or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Yeah. No, that's that's I completely agree. I think about how um my son had to go to an occupational therapist for like crossing his midline. I thought it was just really cute that he never crawled as a baby. Um, he just scooted his little bottom and I was figured it out. It walked just fine. But it wasn't until preschool, pre-K, when he couldn't like cross his arms to do like X week, right? And his teacher was like, hey, that's not an expected behavior. And I was like, I would, how would I have known that? I'm not I'm not a early childhood education person. So I love that you're have the openness and perspective of like, no, they have a lot of context, they have a lot of data points from their own experience and just overall that they can be like, hey, let's just we're gonna watch that thing or we're gonna work on that thing. There's nothing wrong with your child. Like, I mean, I hope that's not any message that you've ever received. There's nothing wrong with your child. Your child is uniquely who they are, strengths, weaknesses, everything all wrapped up into one. So, how do we how do we help them become their best selves? Yeah. So that they can contribute to our communities and flourish. And flourish and thrive and live a life of meaning and purpose. Eudaimonia. Be eudaimonious.

SPEAKER_03 40:04

I have to do it. Somebody said it in a thread event and it was her. It was probably you and say it a lot.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

Is that that emotional agility workshop? And I think everybody's room, everybody's head in the room, like caught to the side, like, what did she just people see it because it's spelled E-U-D-A-I-M-O-N-I-A.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

And so people see the word and they don't know how to pronounce it. And so they're always pause, and I'm like, eudaimonia.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

I love that. I love that. Um, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 40:40

Well, speaking of the thread, I feel like what you're doing is educational, like and for it's like education for adults. So how daunting was it, like your first cohort to plan like all the programming and think about like the best way to teach adult women?

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Well, I will say I did no teaching in my first cohort. I absolutely was terrified. And I thought I would teach like a session on goals, and I couldn't even do that. And so I brought in, you know, a partner to help co-plan this session I had envisioned for goals, but she had to lead it because I just had total imposter syndrome, but also like responsibility of like, yeah, this is not just me and my lived experience and the research that I've done. You know, I want to have a variety of voices and conversations, and we're gonna learn from one another. So I really feel like starting the first cohort in that mode, co-creating, was very, very helpful. And so it actually, even though I did want to teach and I I probably didn't admit that fully then because I was there was a lot of fear there, I've stepped much more into that uh in cohort 11, which is what we're in now. And I think I lead maybe two or three of the workshops, one being emotional agility. Yay! Yay! But I really relied on other amazing professionals to come in and share on their area of expertise. And I still do largely in the thread. So, but that has been a cool thing. And this is why it's like just so much fun to like follow what you're interested in and see where it leads. Because I never would have guessed, like I thought I was the container creator. And while I am, I can also be a skilled facilitator or a growing teacher of a certain topic.

SPEAKER_03 42:37

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of exciting. So I feel like because I just think about my threat experience. I know like a few of my speakers were different from like what Lydia did to Cohort to Be Horse. So you've probably like gone through quite a few speakers and you know a lot about leadership and self-help, or I don't know what you call the field acceptable. But is there something, and we talked about for women, we talked about like self-compassion, but is there something else?

SPEAKER_00 43:12

Is there a leadership lesson that you feel like is like the most important one before you said self-compassion, that's what I was gonna go back to because I mean it really is the core. Self-compassion leads to confidence, and it's easy, I think, for a lot of women to have compassion in the world and to others, but very hard for them to have compassion to themselves. Not every woman, that's for sure. Yeah. But I really just like if that's one thing I could leave with women, it would be to really work on loving yourself, trusting yourself, showing that self compassion because that's your foundation.

SPEAKER_02 43:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

And I think we just skip away though sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 44:03

I don't think I've ever not ever, but like I don't think about self-compassion very much.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

I think with the work in emotional agility, it maybe like flagged that more for me. Because I think when you so Audra probably has a slightly different, different definition, but when I think about emotional agility, it's managing your emotions in alignment with your values. I don't think I've thought so much in my time about like what do I value and how does that show up and how do I lean into that or fight against it? Or and so I think the self-compassion comes back around to it for me in those moments when I'm like, okay, why am I fighting against why I feel so strongly? We were just having this conversation yesterday. It's been hard for me to accept that I'm a builder, not an operator, that I can be really great at building something, but I don't have to run it forever. You know what I mean? Like, and there's something there, like if that's a value that I hold, I don't know why I keep fighting against it, but it's not very there's negative self-talk when I'm like, okay, but why don't you want to be an operator, Lydia? Like, what's wrong with just like operating your learning lab forever?

SPEAKER_03 45:12

I'm gonna have to deep dive this later.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

Sounds like another podcast episode. I'm not leaving Learning Lab anytime soon, everybody. Everything is fine. But we're still building. We're still building, but that's why it's still okay, is like everything is like still very fresh, but I know I will reach a point. I've done it like multiple times now where it's like, okay, I am I am done with this chapter, this season, I'm ready for the next thing. But there's just, yeah, I think if I reflected on it more, there's a lot of negative talk about myself in that moment instead of being like, no, this is what I value, and I'm gonna be okay with valuing this and the trade-off and the choice that I'm gonna make that is more aligned with self-compassion.

SPEAKER_03 45:52

I am going to choose to not take this as like an exit interview.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

It's not at all, it's just been like a theme lately of like just that as a just a value that I've discovered about myself.

SPEAKER_00 46:05

Well, so let's say you realize that about yourself, and that's one thing, the awareness, like that's the step of like, oh, I like this or I am this, but then it's like the judgment, right? Right. That's like the bridge that you have to like cross and get curious about to pull in the emotional agility framework. But why is that judgment there? What stories are you telling yourself? Yeah. Are these stories updated or are these stories that are rooted in other people's expectations or your past self or another season of life, or even like the vision you had for your life? So it's like examining those expectations and getting curious about those.

unknown 46:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

We're not gonna do that on this podcast. Oh darn. We always need extra podcast topics. Yeah. Um, but all this to wrap back around to like what Susan's comment about the hope for our kids in our education spaces is like self-compassion, I think, is such a great frame of mind for that. Because if they can grow up and do everything that you were just talking about, like I'm gonna have this, that I'm gonna feel this feeling and I'm gonna look at it and wonder why I'm feeling that way. And what are like if we could have kids more actively work through that process to lead to a place that is more rooted in self-compassion, I think I think you'd have I mean anxiety, depression, all these things that you're seeing kids grow up with and carrying into adulthood, I think you would see that go and the a little bit of a different internet like exacerbates the problem because then they're doing the comparison thing.

SPEAKER_03 47:43

Yeah, and there's I I mean everyone needs self-compassion when they're looking at Instagram or whatever, Snapchat. Yes. Um well, I want to make sure and get in something about your podcast, Audra, because that's kind of a big part of your brand right now and what you're doing. It's called A lot with Audra. So just tell, like, what do you what made you want to do a podcast and what's it about?

SPEAKER_00 48:08

I told my dad one time, if I could just get paid to talk, that would be the dream. And instead of laughing, right? Instead of laughing, he said, hold on to that. And um I got to co-host a really great podcast when I first moved back to the Midwest, and it was all about women who were breaking ceilings. And we closed that podcast after a second season, but I I just loved interviewing people, having conversations, digging into topics that were interesting to me. And so I knew one day I wanted to start a podcast again. So 2025, that was my goal. We launched the first Monday of January, and it was called a lot with Audra because I just wanted to have conversations that I thought were interesting around a value-centered life. This is way before the emotional agility work that we did and what success means to different people and how to live into your strengths, basically how to take all these theories and like actually live them out. And I talked about how this is for women who feel like they're a lot and also not enough at the same time. And it just evolved into a second season of focusing on second acts. Um, I turned 40 this year, and it being such a big age, uh turning point, I started diving into this thought of like a second act and found that there are a lot of people out there living in their second acts. And so it's just a podcast that um you can come listen to people talk about the types of things we talked about today. Self-trust and making big pivots and what they were thinking and how they were feeling and how they actually went about it. What habits did they have to have?

SPEAKER_03 49:54

Did I had a hard time turning 40? Have it like was it has it been like a mental like jump for you? Dude, I've been excited about turning 40 for like a lot of years. So, like I is it because they always say that like your 40s are when you know yourself and blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

Maybe. And my my grandmother has always talked about her 40s being one of her favorite decades, and so I've just been since I was a high schooler, excited to be in my 40s, and I'm here, I've arrived.

unknown 50:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 50:24

So thank you.

SPEAKER_03 50:25

It's just such a different conversation. Yeah, like I had the complete opposite reaction of that. I it took me two like hard years to get over it.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

See, okay, and that's why I wanted to talk about second acts on the podcast because not that it's about being 40, but I just think so many people think it's too late. Let's even look at it in the school lens. It's too late to pull my kids out of this school and try something different. It's too late to pivot my career. It's too late to start speaking up in these meetings because I haven't spoken up in them for two years, but it's just never too late. And so I feel like that's where where we shifted this season. And since I am so excited about 40, I sort of wanted to rebrand this whole thing. Like it is not too late. Yeah. Second acts can happen at any time, and you can make them like the most beautiful act.

SPEAKER_03 51:17

Well, I put that in terms of my marriages. There you go. There you go. My second marriage is amazing. So your second, your second act, you kind of know like what didn't go well your first act. What would you like do differently? It's never too late to say, like, yeah, that marriage sucked. Let's do it a different way. Yeah, I can't.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

I talk about act one is about learning the rules that are given to you. Yeah. Act two is about creating your own. I love that. And you can do that in any in any season stage.

SPEAKER_01 51:48

Well, I love to ask people um this question. Maybe we've talked about it. I can't remember. Audra, you uh, in your professional career or you as a person, what are your non-negotiables? What are the things you will not compromise on? Well, you probably know some of this.

SPEAKER_00 52:07

Seven hours of sleep. She is a bare number seven. Well, like ideally seven and a half, but seven is my bare minimum. That's just what the doctors say you need seven to eight. And I've just found like my body rhythm really loves seven and a half hours of sleep. Um, coffee. I'm just not gonna, I'm not gonna give it up. That's okay. Yeah. That's all right. And one of my friends recently asked me, she said, you know, we hadn't gotten together in a while, and there was some sickness and canceling. And I had just told her, you know, we're doing all this traveling, and then this happened at vocationally, and then end of school, and I was just sharing, you know, what had kept my life full for the past several months. And she was like, Oh, and I bet you've just totally not like been able to take care of yourself. And I was like, No, that is not true. I have neglected other areas so that I could like have the space to care for myself well. Right now, that looks one way to me. It's looked other ways in the past, but yeah, good for you. Yeah, yeah. Just prioritizing myself, whether that means meditating in the car after a crazy day before I go into a podcast interview or than what happened today. Doing yoga after the kids go to bed. I mean, it doesn't always look perfect, yeah, but it's just something I don't compromise.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

I love that. That's really important. I think more people could keep that as a non-negotiable. But it's hard. And I think I think what was really great about what you said is it's not a rigid exp it can't be a rigid expectation, maybe, especially as you're a parent is you have to you have to bend a little, you have to be a little bit flexible with how that shows up. But yeah, but um no, I love it. Kristen, anything else you want to ask Audra with?

SPEAKER_03 53:51

No, I mean, I would just plug the thread.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

Yeah. Um great experience.

SPEAKER_03 53:55

Yeah. I mean, I know Lydia's mastermind group is super close, so they put you with women you didn't know and you may or may not have a ton in common. But um I think both of us really liked our mastermind group. So that is like, I mean, I feel like you could do it just for that, but it's also just a really great way to self-reflect and identify areas for growth, um networking. So I I think it's definitely worth the investment for anyone in Wichita that hasn't done that. That's a woman, a professional woman. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 54:28

Cohort 12 starts in October. So enrollment's open now. You can go to our website.

SPEAKER_01 54:34

Yes, and all women are welcome, right? So you mentioned there was a homeschool mom that was in one of your groups. I mean, it doesn't have to be, don't limit yourself by thinking that you don't you wouldn't be welcome or included.

SPEAKER_00 54:45

Yeah, I always love to invite women because that was a key I found early on. Is some women didn't know if they were a fit. And so I always love to invite.

SPEAKER_03 54:57

I would love to see some school districts allow some teachers to do the thing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:04

Who do we need to talk to? Um but I think it'd be really amazing. Well, thank you, Audra. It was so lovely having you.

SPEAKER_00 55:10

Thank you for having me.

unknown 55:12

Yeah, thanks, Audra.