Let's Get Personal : the Learning Lab Podcast
Through our work at Learning Lab Wichita, we get a front-row seat to innovation in personalized, kindergarten-through-12th-grade learning. On this podcast, we share stories of how educators and parents are helping kids discover their passions—so you can do the same for a child you love.
Let's Get Personal : the Learning Lab Podcast
Redefining How We Teach Reading
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Dyslexia affects one in five people, and READ Redefined co-founders Jane Hayes and Amy Taylor are committed to expanding access to effective literacy services.
When the duo founded READ Redefined in 2022, one of their goals was to reach people in rural communities who did not have access to services grounded in the science of reading. Their work has since grown, including a partnership with Newman University to help properly train educators and other adults to provide dyslexia therapy.
Their work is especially timely as Kansas passed legislation in spring 2026 strengthening literacy screening, educator training and reading intervention requirements in public schools.
In today’s episode, Jane and Amy share their experiences raising children with dyslexia, their journeys in the literacy field and why they’re passionate about helping those who struggle to learn to read.
Hi, I'm Lydia and I'm Kristen. Through our work at Learning Lab, which talk, we get a front row seat to innovation and personalized kindergarten through 12th grade learning. On this podcast, we share stories of how educators and parents are helping kids discover their passions so you can do the same for a child you love.
SPEAKER_02Time to dive in. Let's get personal.
SPEAKER_06Hi everyone and welcome to Let's Get Personal Real Talk About Reimagining Education. Today we have our friends Jane and Amy here from Reed Redefined. You guys have kind of been around Learning Lab for a little while now, but you have good connections with Kristen. So maybe let's just take a little moment here, introduce yourselves. Who are you? What do you do? How'd you get there?
SPEAKER_00Okay, well, um, Amy. So I started as a classroom teacher, started kindergarten, second grade, fourth grade, kind of did that. Uh, went over as an intervention specialist, and then um got my master's in as a reading specialist. Anyway, super long story shorter. Um ended up getting some training, and that is where initially I met Jane, and I kind of fell into this business um a few years ago, and we can get into that later. But um, yeah, I've been working with students and been writing um curriculum and working at Newman and kind of doing all of the above for a little bit now.
SPEAKER_01Jane? My name is Jane, and my path originally, I was a classroom teacher with USD 259 here in town, and I had three kids in five years, so I was working to pay my wonderful, lovely, love her daycare person. But it was time for me to step out for a little bit, and in that time I came across the the working, being able to work with a student with dyslexia. And the more I investigated, the more I went, oh, this is kind of cool. And so I just kept digging and digging and digging, and in digging, I just fell in love with it. And fast forward a little bit, and I went, oh, look, what lives at my house? So I also have that going on as well. But through time, through being back in the classroom, out of the classroom, being in higher education, um, all the things uh being in business with Amy.
SPEAKER_06We can talk about that more too. Exactly. You know, there's all the things. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's really fun. So talk a little bit about read, redefine, and what do you all offer families as services?
SPEAKER_00Yes. So there are several things. Um, we advocate for students, we work with students, so we both have caseloads of kids that we work with. We also have some other therapists that work for us that provide services. Um we have several different courses that we offer. Um, some of them are through a university, some of them are through read redefined. Um so we have a lot of different things.
SPEAKER_01Some of them are on the KSDE.
SPEAKER_00Oh. Yes, we have two courses that we wrote, um, the Read Redefined course and literacy redefined, that are both on KSDE website. They both are at-risk list funds, um, both sealed literacy classes. So we were very excited to be on that. Um and we've gotten in our read-redefined main course, that's our dyslexia therapy one. That has um been the one that we have accredited through IDA, which is International Dyslexia Association. So, and then of course we have our Newman stuff. Yeah. We have a lot of different avenues.
SPEAKER_06Talk a little bit about I don't know exactly the right question, right? But set the stage for people. I feel like if you have a family member or a child that has dyslexia, you know about the world and the issues that have existed with teaching kids how to read. But I feel like if you don't have an inlet to that or you haven't experienced it, it doesn't feel like as pressing up a problem, I guess, as it actually is. That's how I feel like it's like been an unaddressed pain point. And there are things that are happening to change it. But can you guys just set the stage of context a little bit for people who maybe aren't familiar with reading and teaching kids how to read and how we've done it so far and why your guys' work is so important? Does that make sense as a question? So that's a three-hour conversation.
SPEAKER_01Give me like so let me give you a shorter version. Um the first thing I would say is that in the history of education, we did not call it dyslexia. So if you go back, it would be a grandparent who struggled to read, or a parent or an aunt or an uncle or a cousin who had to get intervention while they were in school or after school, or we hired a third grade teacher to help us with phonics or whatever. And do not get me wrong, it is not just phonics before others will go that way, but it's that whole being able to understand. So part of it, yes, a family member who struggles is going to be your first number one predictor of oh, I should probably pay attention to this. Then when you get into the school system per se, our struggle has always been in I'm of a certain age, that when I went through college, it was whole language. With whole language, whole language was a completely and totally different setup than structured literacy. And because of that different setup, not everybody's on board to that switch because not everybody likes change. So there's a shift that's happening. That shift is coming. So we want to make sure that we're watching out for a family member 100%. If you've had a family member who has struggled, you're kind of going, hmm, mm-hmm. I wonder if this could be something I pay attention to. And so if that's the case, then obviously then we do need to pay attention to that. Is it the is it the guarantee? It is not the guarantee. Um, so therefore, then we get in and we start looking at what what are our skills, what are what are where are our weaknesses, how can we help with that? The fabulous, wonderful thing about structured literacy is that it really works with students who struggle with reading, whether it is um English as a second language, whether it is dyslexia, whether it is anything that falls under that reading, that system works well. We know that the human brain is the same human brain, no matter who it is and how they were developed, what country that fabulous, wonderful human brain was is created with knowing every single language, every single sound in that. And so we know that we can all get there. Yeah, but the question has been the struggle or the path that way.
SPEAKER_00It's interesting because five perhaps of people just absorb it. I swear they can lay their head on a pillow and just absorb it and know how to read. Yeah. Everybody else is gonna need help.
SPEAKER_02It's only five percent. Five percent. I worked at a dyslexia center and I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And everybody else, now is the struggle gonna be the same? Of course it's not. Yeah. So there's gonna be lots of varying degrees of that. But we're still talking that the majority of people are gonna need a little bit of extra boost somewhere. So why not teach everybody what works for the lowest so it would it can benefit everybody? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, you think it would even help the strongest learners be better. It does. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_06I think that's just really interesting. I when I was teaching in my high school, we had over 50 different countries represented in the building. We had, I don't even know how many languages then. So I think that your point about learning a language, like if you're learning, if you're a non-native English speaker, there are structures to language. So therefore, yeah, that's just a really interesting connection.
SPEAKER_01I hadn't thought about that. By teaching those who are genetically not wired to have that same understanding, you're teaching all kids. So you're teaching the other 95%. Yeah. So that's the fabulous part.
SPEAKER_06Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01Uh-huh. It's good on multiple levels.
SPEAKER_06It's good on multiple levels. Um why do you guys care about dyslexia? Why you? Why you two? What's your personal connection? Personal connection.
SPEAKER_00You're right. Um Well, I am dyslexic myself. Um, and I did not realize that I was dyslexic uh until Jane told me. And I go, Thank God for Jane. I didn't know. She didn't learn anymore.
SPEAKER_01I put many characteristics on the board and she said, I do all of those things. And I said, Okay. And then I just stopped talking to let that kind of scene in.
SPEAKER_00Equals. And and so I was 30 when I found that out. So until then, I had struggled, everything was difficult. I just thought that I lacked intelligence to be able to do things. So the decisions I made, the paths I took were all with that filter of, well, I I can't do anymore. Like this is this is my path, and that's okay. Um so once I found that out, like, oh, well, that kind of puts a spin on things. Yeah. I went through life working with that. But then the the main shift, as everybody I'm sure gets, is when I became a mom. I'm like, okay, well, my babies are gonna be part of me. And if they're part of me, then I have to fix this because they will not experience school, they will not experience get that self-esteem like I had. Like that's not acceptable. So it kind of was a fire of no, no, no, we're we have to do something about this.
SPEAKER_06We're gonna break this cycle. This is not gonna continue. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I kind of wanna like pause and just like let the people reflect on this idea because I know you like pretty well, and you are very intelligent and you're creative. And people respond really, I mean, you have all these strengths. So I know that you're intelligent, but you spent 30 years of your life thinking that was untrue because you did not understand how you learned, right? And if you had that experience as someone who I can testify to the fact that you're a competent, charming, lovely human being. Think about all of the other people, not even just kids, because we focus on kids, we love kids, we can remediate better when they're kids. We can break cycles for kids, right? So think of all the people of all ages who think they are dumb.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that's yeah, honestly, that's the number one thing that I that comes from this is that dyslexia. So, yes, I I get that, but do you think those scars go away? Right.
SPEAKER_04They don't.
SPEAKER_00So these people that are walking around, like I am this, I am this, which is wonderful and empowering in itself, it still doesn't mean that it gets the best of you some days. That it's still a struggle all the time. It doesn't make it easier. So that is one of those conceptions of just because you receive or you know where it's gonna help there's parts of it that help.
SPEAKER_01But that's why you're like, well, if I could start having these conversations and work on this before, maybe it's and to jump on that just a little bit, it's one of those that dyslexia is often tied to school-age children. We have the reading, writing, and spelling, it's the first things that we ask them to do once they enter kindergarten. However, it's one of those we also know that it's all language that has to be processed. So if you think about setting up a new computer, how do you talk to your friends? What is socially appropriate, what is not socially appropriate? How can I, my the relationship you have with your spouse, how you hire someone, how you give directions to someone. We have even had conversations where we're like, okay, something's amiss, what's going on? And we go, oh, that's just a vocabulary. I got this all the time.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah, sure, sure.
SPEAKER_02So, Jane, what about you? You're not dyslexic. I know you are. I know that about you. How did you know that about me? I just know you. I know I mean not dyslexic. I and I also aren't dyslexic. But we might be in the 5%, to be honest with you.
SPEAKER_06I don't, I mean, but to your point, I don't ever remember struggling to remember. I don't either. Truly, truly in my heart of hearts. I know to make you jealous. Yeah. I just think that 5%, like it, that's just a really interesting factor.
SPEAKER_02I'm actually jealous of you, just to be clear. When I worked in a dyslexia center, I dyslexic people have some cool strengths, but that's we're gonna talk about that later.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So originally um getting into this as the classroom teacher, and and I was able to, again, three kids, five years, was able to stay at home. And I loved being able to go and do the Valentine's parties and put out the little heart-shaped cookies and does mom. Exactly. And get to see them and all that kind of stuff. Love to be able to do that. But if you're a classroom teacher, you get to host all of those events. You don't get to go to any of those events. So when I came across the program, it was one of those, it was fabulous because it really fit the niche for me. Short version is the my three-year-old that I mentioned earlier is profoundly, profoundly the less than one percent or of those who struggle with reading, writing, and spelling. It's really cute when they mix up words like seat cart. It's not so cute when they mix up lawnmower and call it a monlower and they're 13. You're gonna get made fun of, right? Yeah. So I do have that personal connection, that personal importance. However, I also knew I could teach her to read. So I was gifted in that. I was also gifted with, we started intervention when she was four. So when she was going through the process, when she was going through all of this, it was something that she was developmentally on par with her peers. Was it always perfect? No, but she was hanging in there and she was not profoundly behind her peers. She only asked me one time, Mom am I the only one in the family who's dyslexic? And I said, yes. And you're also the only one with blue eyes. So that's a that's as much control as a parent that you have over it. Like, and it's but I also struggle with telling my story because I did not have the kid who came home crying every day with homework. And I did not have the kid who stomach aches before going to school or headaches, or I didn't have that experience. And I know I am a teeny, teeny, teeny, tiny subgroup. And it's one of those that, you know, my kid went to my kid went to college, graduated with honors on an SAT scholarship. So it's one of those that we know it works. So the question is, how do we get at all the other ones? If I had waited for a school or school system to be able to be what she needed when she needed she's now 27. She's completely outside of all the realms of high school, middle school, elementary school, all of that. So for me, it's not it's no longer about being the parent, which is still important, but it's also too about as an educator, how can I help the profession? How can I change that so that when I was sitting there in my very first week of class, I was like, oh, and oh, that one probably was, and that one meets those characteristics. And you know, if I go back to a different grade, I can think of these kids. And so how can we, how can we just get the information to other educators so that they too can feel those successes? As an educator, we did not go into education for the money. So you apparently go into it for the little light bulb moments, and that's what you want. How can how can I share with educators so that they can get those light bulb moments as well?
SPEAKER_06With to your point about early intervention, like what did you because it is cute and they my daughter calls fruit snacks snoot snacks? And they're forever snoot snacks in our family. Right.
SPEAKER_01So like so that's cute.
SPEAKER_06I understand. So like so like some things are just like cute toddler talk, right? So what did you notice with your daughter that if somebody's listening would be like, hey, these just early intervention could look like this for that young of an age.
SPEAKER_01So mine is still a little bit different because I'm gonna have you also share on this. So for for my child, it was sitting in that Valentine's Day party and we had the most wonderful, loving grandma of a teacher for preschool for the pre for the four-year-old preschool class. And uh she was it was a three-year-old pre preschool class. We had we had Barbie for four-year preschool class. I should have known that. But um, she was sitting there and she was doing a fabulous job. She was reading the Barernstein Bears book, she was asking comprehension questions, she was talking about characters and settings, she was doing all the things all great educators do. And when the students were raising were raising their hand, they were sitting in a little semicircle, there were 12 kids in her class. She asked the question, and 11 raised their hand. And guess who was the one who did not? And then when she asked the second question, my sweet one was the first one with her hand in the air. And she answered question number one. And it took her that much time to process her language. And that's where it gets back to the language. So, did I have a definitive she is dyslexic because she's done this? I did not, but I did have a you had a little hmm over here. I should maybe I should maybe pay attention to this. And at that point in time, somebody said, Have you ever considered working, you know, and doing this with her? I was like, you know, I'm just like, am I being oversensitive? Because I work with kids all day with this. Is and the comment that she made was but what hurt does it do if you do it? And I went, Okay, I can't answer that question. So I guess I'm now also working with her too. Yeah. And it was one of those, it was to our benefit. She wasn't the kid behind because so we were very fortunate in that. Yeah, yeah. You had the different situation with your cutie patooties.
SPEAKER_00Um, so when I first um hold on, Amy. Closer your microphone. I'm sorry. Thank you. So I was in uh I lived in Baton Ridge, Louisiana for a while. And when COVID hit, I decided, I don't know why, that I wanted to do preschool with a whole bunch of toddlers in my house. You're so generous and kind of choice that were interesting. So that's a good word. So I did, and so we were in the middle of, I was leaving circle time on the carpet in my living room, and we were talking about eye igloo, and they were had, you know, they had the feely thing, and we were talking about that, and it was great. Next day we went to review it, and my three-year-old, she was equally amazed every time that it was an igloo. No concept at all. I'm like, okay, that's all right. We'll just work on repetition, not a big deal. She just needs some more. So I did it again. We worked on the concept I igloo eye for three years. And the number of repetitions until she finally got it. Um so there were those moments like when she was three that I was like, oh boy.
SPEAKER_01We're gonna need to be a good thing. And for mine, it was, you know, she was the youngest, so it was one of those, it didn't matter how long it took her to answer a question because she was generally sitting in the back of the car while I was dropping off at soccer and picking up from gymnastics, and I'd ask the questions and she'd respond. And but it was in both situations that it was how this one is doing compared to their peers of their age. So as a mom, it didn't matter how long it took. Right, right. But compared to other peers, you go, oh, she is doing this, but the peers are not. And that's the same as to what was happening with my situation as well.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00And it was tough because her her sister, um, who is 16 months older, she was wow, you did that quickly. Those were all the choices.
SPEAKER_01You know, it doesn't have consequences. Sometimes I have names.
SPEAKER_00That was funny. So that's she is the polar opposite, where she was reading chapter books by the time she was five. And not because of me, um, because she was the one that just absorbed the information. She was, she would watch the magic schoolhouse and she would run and she would fact-check sources at five. Good for her. And I'd be like, honey, what are you doing? And she's like, Mom, that was clearly wrong. It says right here National Geographic.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01So I mean, we had to. I thought she could tell the difference between a primary and a secondary.
SPEAKER_00And he was wrong, and she was right. It was a day.
SPEAKER_02But it was cute. Oh, that's So you also had that comparison because your older daughter's the one that took to it easily. Yes. And so I mean, as a parent, you had you had already had training to where you could do IE glue eye. But what about parents that have a three-year-old or a four-year-old or a five-year-old doing this? Like, what should a parent do if they kind of start recognizing? And also you might share, you're sharing what you saw in your ch children, but like what else can parents look for? Because there are other ways to identify dyslexia.
SPEAKER_01Um so with littles, you have to think about things like left and right, tying your shoes. All of those are abstract and they have language. Tying shoes has a lot of directions. How are those directions? They're all me talking. The same thing with left-right. Some adults don't still struggle with that concept because, again, it's an abstract object, an abstract concept. With that, it's one of those that um you'll also see things like they are struggling with the names of the letters, they're struggling with any of the sounds, they're struggling with multiple conversations about the same letter over and over, and they're still not getting what those letters and sounds are. Um, as they get a little bit older, do they know uh a house number? I laughed. Uh, I was trying to hold back because um a kindergarten requirement is that they know their phone number. And if you ask a kindergartner what is your phone number, the first response is I don't have a phone. And then the second say, okay, but if I was to call your mom, what phone number would I? And then they would give you the four-digit pin number to get into the phone. Yeah, yeah, there's too many numbers now. There's too many. So that that, you know, standards are shifting a little bit on us as we speak. But but those abstract things are things that are that struggle. So anything that requires a remembering. Um, she would also be the kid I would say, okay, I need you to go get your shoes, your socks, and your backpack. And she would come back and she'd be holding a Barbie.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. And at times that just feels like, okay, they're just not focusing, or you know, you can dismiss it easily. It'd be like, well, they're so good, especially when they're three, four.
SPEAKER_01And she was the kid who taught me, what did you hear me say? Yeah. And what's a great question. And she said, Well, you said today's preschool. It's show and tell. Great. I am I am loving the fact that you have already picked it out. We're not going to spend 45 minutes on coming out the door in order to do it. I love that you already know what you're going to share, but I still need you to put your shoes or socks and your backpack. So it were little things like that. That it's that abstract or remembering concepts. Um, if you think as an adult, um, one of the assessments that I have worked with with most often high schoolers above, I'll give a list of like things in the grocery store. You know, as an adult, things in the grocery store.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, they generally remember the beginning of the list and the end of the list, and they never heard anything in the beginning because there's just I had to hold on to this, which means you're still talking, but I'm not listening anymore. Okay, I think I got those three.
SPEAKER_02Now I'm re-engaging and now I I see that my husband has dyslexia and he's a high school English teacher, and uh, which is a whole thing. But um that's how I knew is I would say go to the bank, go to the store, and you know, go to the mailbox. And like, first of all, he you can't give him a list of things to do in order verbally because he will not do it in order. No. And you really can't just give him anything verbally. I have to send a text that's like bank, but and then he is real good. But it's the it's the processing of the language, which is wild because he can, you know, his mom, and I think I've said this on the podcast before, but his mom took off of work, quit her job when he was in kindergarten, had the wherewithal to know, and just did phonics. Yep. And that's the only reason that he can read, I'm sure of it.
SPEAKER_01But he's loves to read now, but as you said, as an adult, it doesn't go away. It's not something they're going to outgrow. It's going to be something that goes away. You're still gonna be able to tell. You're still gonna be able to do that. I can't even after repeating ADK.
SPEAKER_00And people often forget about the comorbidity between dyslexia and ADHD and autism. How they they kind of often they'll be like, oh, well, this is this. Okay, but if it's this, be careful. Because a lot of times things overlap. So you have to be careful too. If they'll be like, oh, this is ADHD. But is it just ADHD? So that's also something that one might be shining stronger than the other, but it doesn't mean that they don't have something different.
SPEAKER_06My son has dyslexia. We've learned this recently. Something that I wish I had known as a parent. I don't know, nobody just made it a word. He had a hard time crossing his midline. And like now we're like, well, of course he has dyslexia. Like that's that's I think those things are tied together, right? Because you're trying to get things, information across the brain. But he went to an occupational therapist. Like there's little things that it's like, no, if they're there are just developmental cues that you could just be curious about more.
SPEAKER_01Well, and it's one of those that it's it just keeps building. Yeah. So you can have like the tying the shoes, the left, right, the the abstract concepts, the address, the phone number. Question mark. I mean, anymore, it's like, what what what's your husband? Uh he he's number two. Like number one. Like, uh, okay, yeah, I just press the button. There you go. Um, and so you have that. And so it's one of those at any time, it's what did you hear? How are you processing that? I ask those questions as often as I can.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Well, and I think something that in Kristen's seen crew since he was like a little tiny baby. So she's watched it, he's just always been really quiet. Like if you if he's not quiet with us, but he's very quiet, he's very observant. He does not miss anything. But Kristen, God bless her, will tell him hi and ask him how he is every time that she's seen him for his whole life at this point. And he just like won't respond to her. But I I think it's I what I've just been learning, I feel like I've been learning is like, no, his brain is trying to reach for that language. And so when he's feeling like slightly uncomfortable, it's like it's just harder for his brain to find the words. And he's gotten so much better at it. He has.
SPEAKER_02And I also think like I usually ask him, like in transition, when he's like entering the office or like he's thinking about Fun Friday in class or whatever, if I would wait until he was like seated.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, and like focusing. But but after we would leave, after we would leave anywhere where he would have this kind of um, I don't know, quiet interaction, awkward interaction, he could tell me what Kristen was wearing. It could tell me exactly what he wanted to.
SPEAKER_02I mean, he could he knew what he, but processing-wise, he just it's like it just took him longer to get his brain to it's been interesting because you know, I worked at a dyslexia center and I worked with Lydia's husband. And so I immediately diagnosed Connor with dyslexia when I met him, um, which he does have dyslexia on his side of the family, but he was never diagnosed. So Connor may or may not.
SPEAKER_01Sometimes we know him, we just don't tell him the people.
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, I probably don't need to tell everyone on the podcast, but he just has those like classic strengths. He's Mr. Charisma, he's very good at athletics. I mean, just some of those strengths that often come along with dyslexia. But then whenever crew was having like these OT uh appointments the whole time in the back of my head, I'm like, he has dyslexia. But how do you share that? I mean, I wasn't gonna be like, hey, Olivia.
SPEAKER_00What's so difficult about that is that my my oldest, she also OT, trouble with the myth line. Incredible reader. Yeah, right. It's not always the same line. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, yeah. But is there some strand in there somewhere? Yeah, there 100% is. Yeah, sure. There's a little bit because her spelling, but that's what makes it so hard to diagnose and so hard for people to be like, well, this is you have this, this is dyslexia. Mm-hmm. Not really. Yeah. It's a spectrum.
SPEAKER_01Or there would be things like um another one that's on there is uh chronic ear infections.
SPEAKER_06Oh, uh huh. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I've never had that mind either. Uh learn to talk later. Well, yeah, no, not either with mine. This daughter learned to talk after the first daughter went to school because she finally got an opportunity to talk, you know, things like that.
SPEAKER_00My youngest is a chatterbox. Yeah. He talks all the time. Yeah. So it that's not the case. You just yeah, so knowing that it's not gonna look the same is a really important thing for people to understand.
SPEAKER_06Would you say it's a spectrum or like a wheel of like a like I'm thinking like a tool I've shared with a lot of friends is the autism wheel. Like, stop thinking about autism as a spectrum, but think about how it's like there are there are skills within this wheel. Would you say the same thing for dyslexia?
SPEAKER_00Yes, and those wheels collide.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's never been presented that way, it's presented as a spectrum. But at the same time, yes, because just because you're good in one does not mean you you're the other. The one that I that really hurts my heart is when we talk about, oh, well, those with dyslexia, they have a superpower. Well, what happens if you just have the plain old average Joe kind of kid? Yeah. That's okay too. Sure. It's the how do we provide access for that child to get to whatever they want to be when they grow up. Right. Because as parents, that's what we want. Whatever you want to be, let me help you get there.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Well, and I think we were I think we were talking about it at some point today, but it really education, the way that you learn, what you're learning, is such a foundational core identity builder for you. So I care more that kids are growing up feeling confident and capable and like they can contribute. And yes, that will look at varying levels, but if you can't even feel like you can have success in learning something like reading, like that is I'm I know I know there's a statistic about the number of people in the correction system that have some sort of they call it the education prison pipeline. Because they did not receive the support that they needed to be to feel confident, capable, and like they can contribute in a positive way.
SPEAKER_02And really, I think that comes down to self-esteem, but also they don't feel they feel dumb, so they don't they don't know how else to make money than the things that they're then it's a generational thing.
SPEAKER_00So you're talking about breaking a generational system. That's hard to do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. So you both have happen to have children with dyslexia, which is not unusual because actually all four of us have children with dyslexia. Go figure because do you still say one in five? One in five have dyslexia. Um, I'm interested in your business story. So you two knew each other. Amy moved away. I did, and then you moved back, and then and Jane, you were working, and I'm sorry, I'm just trying to get to the point of the story, but you were a teacher.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was a classroom teacher. I taught in public education and I have taught in the parochial system. And it's one of those that when I went through, it was like check, check, check, check, check. But it was really because not even because of Katie, because I had actually had about two years' worth of time with students when I recognized what was going on with her. So the story of the business actually starts with my friend Amy.
SPEAKER_00So we got word that we were moving, so we were in Louisiana, we got word we were moving back to Kansas. And at this point, I had not, other than like the preschool that I randomly did a pop-up shop with in my living room, I decided to um, okay, if we're moving back, then I need to kind of dive into some stuff. So I thought, all right, my uh sister had actually said, you know, this has really been on my brain, it's really been on my mind. I really think this is something that you need to gravitate towards. Okay, okay, okay. So I got it got my wheel spinning. I'm like, Jane. So I knew You knew the exact person negotiated meeting.
SPEAKER_06Exactly who I needed.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. I can tell you the exact place in town where I was driving when she called. I love us.
SPEAKER_00And I pick up the phone and I said, Hey, I'm moving back to Wichita. You want to start a business? And she goes, Yeah. I have a crazy idea.
SPEAKER_01Are you in? And I said, Yeah. I haven't told you what it's yet. And I went, that's okay.
SPEAKER_00I said, Great. So I pitched the idea that I had. And uh luckily, she's always able to put the rest of the words together that I often forget to add. So she was able to do that. And then I we go, we move back. We haven't found a house, so we're in an apartment. We're in um the ones by the um by the stadium, the baseball stadium. Oh, uh-huh. Yeah. And so we're in there, all the family, and just this tiny little apartment. And Jane comes over. She's like, okay, so I'm gonna need this going ahead and this business starting like in a couple months. I'm like, I was thinking we could like brainstorm for a year. She's like, No, you need to talk about it now. Yeah. So um, so I did the initial and then she And then I shoved her off a cliff. Let's do this. Here we go. If we're gonna do this, let's do this.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, so it was one of those that it really touched on a lot of things. It it was um Amy grew up in a small town. We recognize that oftentimes in rural communities, there is no access to anyone who does struggle. Um, they don't have access to a person who has had any sort of dyslexia, background, training, structured literacy, anything. So, how can we help those? Well, the one thing COVID did teach us is kids can do online. Is in person better? It is yeah, but can they do online? This has helped us break barriers. So online, people find us kind of from all over. I have one student in Boston and one student in Bakersfield, California. So that's fine. Coast to coast. So literally coast to coast, exactly. Um, and we've had a parent call from Aja Bajan.
SPEAKER_05Oh, fine.
SPEAKER_01Because of how the time difference worked out for us and that like it has just been amazing how many doors it has opened um for those in the military who are not always in the same place, who land in different places. Um so that was kind of where we first started with okay, let's start here. Um, and then at that point in time, then we started writing a teacher training program. And that's how we got into Newman.
SPEAKER_06So talk about your work at Newman. So you guys are teaching students.
SPEAKER_00So I have to, I still have to back up just a little bit. That's fine. Because so when we went to teach, so she's like, you know, this is kind of what I've been doing. I'm like, yeah, yeah, this is good, this is good.
SPEAKER_01Oh, so this is where she shoved me off the second class. Ah, yeah, okay, got it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, she forgot the shit.
SPEAKER_01So No, I didn't forget, I blocked it out.
SPEAKER_00So she goes, Well, I just want to do a little bit more research on this. I want to see if I can find a program like this. I'm like, okay, I get it. You she's the research person, and words are words to me, whatever. So she's going to research and I said, Okay, here's the thing though. So you get one more month to research. And after that, if you don't find it, we're writing our own program. And she goes, Okay, I'll find it. So she's on the phone with Harvard people. I mean, she's just she is trying everything out of the world. Harvard and all the researchers. Yeah. And month came and I said, Do you well, do you have it? She goes, Nope. And I said, Okay, so what part are you gonna start on? And pretty much how that conversation went. So we wrote two books in a summer. Good for you, six weeks.
SPEAKER_02Wait, they're curriculum books. Correct. Yes. For adults?
SPEAKER_00For that's an interesting question. We'll have that conversation in just a second. Press pause. Okay. So um, no, it is it was meant for an intervention as an intervention program um for dyslexia therapy, however, it's structured literacy, so it would work for anybody. What we wanted was we collectively have been trained in many different things, and we've taught many different things. And we're always like, oh, but it could really use this. Oh, it could really use that. So we took that and we put it in one book. And one book that's easy to follow, that's not gonna take 75 other things all over the place. Um so we started writing those, and then when you go to conferences, you're like, oh yeah, we wrote our own, you get this little, I'm sure you did. So then we're like, oh, not kidding, yes. We need to be taken seriously. So how do we do that? So that's when we went through the accreditation process with IDA. Be like, well, okay, okay, we have to it had to be peer-reviewed, we have to show that this is legit and it actually is gonna be working. Um, so that's when we went through that process and we got that. Um, and then we went with Newman, and Newman says, Hey, you know, we're actually getting ready to get rid of this reading specialist program.
SPEAKER_05We're like, hey, how about we rewrite it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So they luckily we have an incredible dean that was like that said yes to us many times. Yes.
SPEAKER_01And let us kind of She keeps reminding us we don't fit into the standard box that others fit into. That's true. And you're like, well, thank you. What a compliment.
SPEAKER_00So exactly. I think I said that yesterday. So we created the reading specialist dyslexia emphasis program at Newman. Um, and now I'm gonna boost it to you.
SPEAKER_01Because of the IDA accreditation, because the state of Kansas, the law has changed regarding reading specialists. In the spring, I believe it was April, governor signed a law that every single building, every single elementary building by 2029 will have a reading specialist. In the past, in school districts, what has happened is the teacher has had experience, she's worked lots of grades, she's good at um instruction, working with all ages, and she will move herself and she will be the reading specialist. Yeah. Then what happens also too then in schools is that the um budget cuts happen and that teacher costs a lot of money, sure, and they're mandated in terms of you need to have uh teachers in schools, and you can't, it's really hard to have a reading specialist, but you don't have a second grade teacher. So something has to happen in that. So therefore, all oftentimes those positions are then cut. So what this does is at least provides the coverage that they have to have one somewhere. Um, and it's not an access to, it's a they need to have a reading specialist. So that has helped with um that from that. We got uh we were um I I say bequeathed. I don't know if that's the right word. I feel like it was a great big giant gift from uh Kansas Board of Regents, and we have 60 scholarships for teachers that will cover the reading specialist licensure, or it will cover at least the five of the 10 courses if they're going for the full masters.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so that's really exciting. Great deal. Congratulations. It's yeah, very gift. It is a gift. Yeah, yeah. It will be how long ago was that approved? The April beginning of April. So yeah, it's one of those that it's we didn't have to wait 12 years for something to be implemented. That was kind of cool. Yeah, um, there are two other universities in the state. Um, being that having that IDA accreditation is definitely what helped put human in those conversations. Tell her what is IDA? Uh IDA, International Dyslexia Association. It is often misunderstood that IDA is only dyslexia. It is not only dyslexia. Um, back in 2014, the president who was Louisa Moates, any educators might know that name because she was the one who wrote the letters training program that many teachers have had, because also through state funding. She had the foresight to know we know how the brain learns. We know how the brain is activated, in which parts, or how does a student learn to read? In doing so, she trademarked the words structured literacy because getting back to the 5%, 95%, yeah, we know that this really works for everybody, and we need to get that structured literacy. So whether you are a gen ed teacher, structured literacy. If you are an interventionist, a SED teacher, still structured literacy, but we're just gonna get you that if you are have that student sitting on the other side of your table, that you know the exact words to come out of your mouth in order to get success.
SPEAKER_02So that's that's our goal. I love it. That's kind of a loaded question, but like what do you think that uh teachers in the state when do you think reading education will get better in Kansas? We have bad test scores and they just passed this law, and I know that. So when is it gonna get better? That's a great question.
SPEAKER_01There's also a difference between passing a law and those who implement it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01We have a lot of different barriers to instruction. Do you have a do you have a superintendent? Do you have a school principal? Do you have team members who are willing to also shift with you so that you can have the same lesson plans? Do you have a building principal who says that they're helpful and then gives you 23 minutes of intervention time to work with your kiddos? 23 minutes isn't very long. I, you know, research tells me an hour. So no less than three days a week. So 23 minutes is extremely limited and short-sighted. So some are in name, yeah, very much 100% on board. Some are not, and then you have the, but that's not the way we've always done it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And that is also frustrating. So it's frustrating for those because it comes off as we are not acknowledging the experience that those teachers have. Those teachers have fabulous resources and knowledge. Our goal is nobody wants to spend their entire Sunday searching teacher pay teacher in order to find the science of reading information that they can use to echo with whatever's going on in their class. It's also a misnomer that it's only K2 that teach these skills. Well, unfortunately, because we know certain research and what we refer to as Scarborough's rope, we also know that there's higher level things like vocabulary, morphology, syntax, how to write a sentence, grammar, um, comprehension, or yeah, comprehension is not necessarily in the strands, but it leads to comprehension. What teachers see is and how we know that is because that's the phone calls from the parents that we get. My teacher tells me my child struggles with fluency and comprehension. The only way to improve those is to teach the strands that we need to and build. So when is it going to get better in education? There's so many components to that. Higher ed is is playing a component because they're just like some of the, but that's not the way that we've always done it. I've always taught my classes this way. There's a shift in mentality. Um, I also believe that there's some um, let's go with territorial issues. One college does not want to teach what was developed at another college, they want to teach what was developed at their own college. Totally understand, respect that. Um, but then that means every university has to reinvent the wheel. Well, that's not helpful. So there are groups that are banding together and they're working. Um, there's a that work with the with K-Bore, um, the L7, and they're getting together. And one representative from all of the region schools love that they are working together in order to change things. Um, and so I think it's a trickle-down thing. So when is it going to be fixed? I can't tell you the answer. There's a lot of barriers, you know. Oh, well, we can't do it in the building. You can't do it here because, well, this is when we have all of our band concerts. Oh, you can't do it here because we have recess. Oh, you can't do it here because, you know, the buses come at this time, or there's all these barriers that have to start aligning. Our first is let's get the help to the teachers. It's nothing that they cannot do. We know they can do it. So let's get them the help because knowledge was wonderful, letters was fabulous, but it gave us all the same working vocabulary and it gave them um kind of some pixie ducts into all the different parts. Uh, but it wasn't your curriculum specific. So that's when we wrote the literacy redefined coursework. That is bring us your coursework, bring us what your district provides for you, bring us your assessments, and we will help you find where all those parts are. Or if you're one of those who needs very specialized training, then we would have the read redefined program. But it's one of those that I I say that because those teachers who have had all of that experience, there's so much of it that they're already doing correctly. Sure. I just need to help with the part that they probably, if they're my age, never got instruction in it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So you can't teach what you don't know.
SPEAKER_06That's exactly right. Um I like to ask this question of all of our podcast guests. But what would you say with the work that you do, your business overall, maybe? What are your non-negotiables? What are the things you will not compromise on, the hill you will die on? What are your non-negotiables as founders and champions of your work?
SPEAKER_00That every single person, every walk of life is able to read it at whatever age, whatever stage, whatever. If they have the drive to want to, it is not too late for any of them. And they should all be given opportunity to, regardless of age, region. I love that.
SPEAKER_01You took my answer.
SPEAKER_06Look at this, you guys just like shared half a brain now at this point.
SPEAKER_01Well, actually, there's a lot of times we dress the same time. You have no idea. One of the things that I so I refer back to, and Amy's heard this story a thousand times, but if um in 2017 I had a daughter who's a jeweler who went on her study abroad was to Finland.
SPEAKER_06Oh, I love I want to go to Finland so badly because I think they do so many things right. And I just want to see it and be part of it. I did.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, I get so jealous. So I even said, I said, okay, well, I'm here, let's go. Yes, go talk to these school people, please, and thank you. Like, yeah, yeah, I know we're here for vacation. Please. Yeah. So on her fall break, she very kindly walked with me to many different schools in order to have this go to public.
unknownExactly right.
SPEAKER_01Fall break where it was really, really snowing. But oddly, it's warmer there, even with snow. Isn't that yeah? They have no humidity and no wind.
SPEAKER_06So the the snow falls straight down. I have a Peloton and I love they have like the scenic. And I will inevitably end up in that area of the world. I'm like, no, I would throw like what I have all these options. I'm like, nope, Norway.
SPEAKER_01Love it, Finland. When I was getting off of the plane in Helsinki, and I am going down the great big giant ramp to go get to baggage claims, uh, there is a huge banner across. Um, and my daughter has shared with me that they Finland was not the first, Estonia was, but Finland also adopted it. And there is a sign, it's written in English thing, and it says in Finland, Wi-Fi is free. Because Wi-Fi is access to knowledge, and knowledge should be free. Amen. And that's where I feel like we work a lot of times with these teachers. They're hungry. Many of them are hungry for what do I do? How do I help? Because they see how this has been a pattern over time. Let me share, let me help. So I want them to be able to walk. So mine is I want all kids, all adults. Yeah. We talked about that, all adults to be able to come back to be able to learn to read.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah. You saying that makes me think about how there is so much. When we think about like getting access does not just mean like financial access, I guess, to the grownups. Like when I think it does sometimes it does no, but I'm but I'm saying is in life you have three scarce resources time, attention, and money. And yes, money is money, is an easier one to solve for. When I think about the time that it takes, this is not a light program. This requires an investment of time.
SPEAKER_01For an educator, yes. For an educator.
SPEAKER_06Like when but and then and then in the to your point about the principal who's not going to give you enough time. No, you need time. Like we need time. We need to be able to focus attention for both the adult and the child. Like there, there's there's the all three of those things have to line up. We spent all summer picking up our son from you guys had children. Nobody warned me about the summer camp shenanigans once your kid is bounced. Oh my gosh. Like I had a spreadsheet to be like, where is he supposed to be? And hopefully, what items are.
SPEAKER_01If you have one mistake, more than one kid, and you're hoping there will be some mistakes.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. So I would have to pick him up from camp to take him to his literacy specialist so that he could do his summer sessions. But I have the ability as an adult to pick up. I have flexibility in my work. I have the time and the attention, my husband and I do, and the money to be able to provide that. So, to your point, like access, yes, financial 100%. It's also we can't underest understate the logistical mental load that getting your kid the support that they need requires. And for the teachers too, right? So many things have to have to align.
SPEAKER_01So the other component is too, is Amy and I um ultimately in a perfect world, I would not have to work with any students because they're getting it. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Because the the the sweet pee who is seeing me is they've had to be good all day. Oh my gosh, yes. Yeah or listen to and process the language from all day. And now you want me to do it for another hour and you want me to do it three days, but my friends are outside playing. Yeah. Or it's Wednesday, I want to go to soccer practice, or yeah, like all of those things are happening. So what actually then happens is a lot of times a parent will contact us in order to sign up for those private or group setting situations. But a lot of times parents can't afford that. Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, I would love to have this great big giant scholarship fund. Of course. That I was able to make everything free, but unfortunately, I have to pay the people who are also working with us and under us to be able to work with those. But yeah, that's a that's a huge undertaking. Oh, absolutely in order to get to financial access.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah. No, for sure. Well, maybe one last question for today, because we could we could chat all day, gals. I I we have to cut off at a certain point. Um, if you could change one thing about schools, or I'm just gonna say learning environments, maybe with a larger swath there. Um, if you could change one thing about those learning environments today, what would that be? And what would a perfect learning environment look like for the kids that you all work with?
SPEAKER_01It goes along with my access question. Having enough people having a redistribution, it's gonna mean that a principal's gonna have to take that schedule, dump it on its head, and it also means I'm sorry, even though you've had PE every year for the last 17 years at three o'clock, you're not gonna get it then. Like in order to make sure that we're having that adequate access within the school, that would be what a luxury for a kid. Yeah, yeah, you know, what a luxury for an adult to be able to provide that. What a luxury that could be. And I would love for that to happen.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely the same. Yeah. Just the idea of um I can send anybody to any school and know that they're taken care of, that they're gonna get what they need, so they can feel confident, so they can go to the next thing and not have to extend their day. Um because because it does that in itself, not just because it's tiring, but it also does a mental load with those kids and what that's what they're internalizing when they have to have extra.
SPEAKER_01And also parents, because parents have oftentimes, because we talked about the genetic component as a teacher. I have to remember if this friend is struggling with reading, there's every probability, yeah. So are the mom or the dad or someone in their in their world has also struggled with reading. So a lot of times then it's like, oh, they're just like me. And then that adds more to the parent. Some negative self-talk that can be. Very much negative self-talk. But also too, then to have the um support of um groups like Decoding Dyslexia Kansas, where they other parents can bond. You're not in this boat alone. You have other people who have also walked this path, who have also had these same conversations. Yeah. If I could say one thing to any mom in the world, trust your mom instand. Moms know. You just know it. And it's the and even going back to my little mine when they were little, obviously they're not little anymore, but mine, it was one of those I could go. It wasn't like, you know, she had a third arm. Yeah. But I could just go, there was something. Yeah. Someone just processes a little bit differently. It's okay. We love her anyway. But but I could say that they I had this like, huh? Well, I wonder. Yeah. I never had dyslexia on the brain because the previous two were all about how do we possibly, you know, one was reading with the sight words, one was reading when her brother got the sight words. There's nothing that will make a five-year-old boy more upset than when their half-year-old sister gets the sight words faster. You know, so we didn't have like that as an expectation. So I'm glad I did not dismiss the words of someone, yeah. A mentor that said, but what's it gonna hurt if you do it?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, right. Oh, right.
SPEAKER_01It's not.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, right. I should probably pay attention to the thing. No downside here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I should probably pay attention to that because this is what they would get in school anyway. So I'm just gonna help her get it before she gets there. Yeah. Like, okay, let's do that. No, that's that's really good.
SPEAKER_06That's I we I think feel like we've talked about it recently on the podcast, or I don't know, we talk about a lot of things here at Learning Lab. But like you for some reason we get put in a position where you start to question you, like, don't trust your ability as a parent for some reason. Like you're like, I'm not, I'm not educated in that, or I'm not the expert in that. And so you do take your end steak with a grain of salt sometimes and say, but you know, like you They went to college, you can feel they're professionals.
SPEAKER_01Not that the teacher is trying to hide anything, yeah. They just might not have that information with them yet. So, how can we help the classroom teacher and how can we help that parent have those conversations because we're not in every school with every parent who and we we want to get rid of that. Yeah. We want to make sure that every kid has the access to be what they want to be when they grow up.
SPEAKER_06That's right, that's right. Well, okay, anything else you want to share and or at least share where people can learn more about you all and what you do.
SPEAKER_00Yes, all that stuff. We have a website, so it's um readredefined.com, and you will find all sorts of good things there. Um, we will post kind of things that are happening, courses that are happening. That's where all of our information for um advocacy and all the classes that we offer are all through the website. Um so yeah, that's that's the main hub.
SPEAKER_06Great. I love it. You guys have anything fun upcoming that you would want to invite parents to or make people aware of or class? It sounds like fall classes probably have started. So not yet. Okay. But they're coming. Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_00But it's looking like um there could be a potential of a spring one as well. So if that person is gonna be in that position as a reading specialist in 2029. That's right. And they're currently employed as a teacher. Yeah, and there's some spots available. Okay. And even if that's not you and you want to even you have a master's, you don't need that, or you would just want the dyslexia therapy component, we always have those options outside of a master's program that reach out.
SPEAKER_01For parents, we also have things like articles on our website, um, educators. We have so many things. So many things. Um, even we've also been hired by, we are on the Idaho Department of Education for their dyslexia training as well. So we have a couple different things that are that are always brewing.
SPEAKER_00Um one of my very favorite sites of all time is uh the Reading Link Compass. It is phenomenal. Um, and the amount of information that you can get there is wild for any walk of life, any question you have. Um that one, of course, the IDA website is fantastic as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um they have something called fact sheets, F-A-C-T sheets. Uh-huh. And it's just one pagers written, not as though you are an educator. You don't have to read between and understand the alphabet soup that is on there. You it's read, it's written in plain old let's talk like a human. We love just nice.
SPEAKER_06But yeah so things like that. Okay, fun. Well, thank you gals for coming on. It was super fun. I we always love seeing you around Learning Lab. Jane and Amy have also been part of our Ed Collab. So now I need, as can I say, now I need we need somebody else. Um, we're we're now in our third cohort. We don't have somebody from Redefined, but we're always thankful for your support and thanks for joining today. And keep up the good work. Thank you very much.