#24 - John Williams, Desmond Moore, & Patrick Blancas

If You Denton Know John Williams, Desmond Moore, and Patrick Blancas, now you do.

For more than a decade, John Williams, Desmond Moore, and Patrick Blancas have quietly shaped where Denton goes to unwind. What started as a single house bar just off the square grew into a family of four sister spots known today as EastOak DanGeline's: Oak Street Drafthouse, East Side, Miss Angeline's, and Dan's Silverleaf. All three are UNT grads, and all three came up through the Denton service industry before building something of their own.

In this conversation, they share how a Fry Street era bar scene shifted east of the square, why they chose to compete with themselves rather than let outsiders move in next door, and how a pawn shop full of lawnmowers helped them keep nearly their entire staff employed through COVID. They also talk about stepping in to keep Dan's Silverleaf alive, what makes Denton's culture different from a suburban market like Lewisville, and what they hope downtown looks like ten years from now.

Guest Bio

John Williams, Desmond Moore, and Patrick Blancas are the team behind East Oak Dangelines, the Denton hospitality group that operates Oak Street Drafthouse, East Side, Miss Angeline's, and Dan's Silverleaf. John grew up between Ponder, Krum, and Denton and studied entrepreneurship at UNT before opening his first bar in 2012. Desmond serves as general manager of Miss Angeline's after starting on the door at Oak Street, and Patrick, an El Paso native and UNT marketing grad, came up alongside John behind the bar at Lucky Lou's.

Key Topics Covered

• How each of them landed in Denton and found their way into the bar business
• The Lucky Lou's years and the mentorship that shaped their approach
• Opening Oak Street Drafthouse and the Austin house bar idea behind it
• Why they opened a second bar 500 feet from their first
• Building a team by giving key employees a piece of the business
• Keeping staff paid through COVID with a lawn mowing operation and community support
• Taking over Dan's Silverleaf and the decision not to change it
• The story behind the Miss Angeline's name
• How Denton's nightlife shifted from Fry Street to east of the square
• What a Lewisville location taught them about Denton's culture

Timestamps

00:00 - Meet the group behind East Oak Dangelines
 01:45 - Denton roots, Ponder, Krum, and UNT
 04:06 - How John got his start in the bar business
 06:52 - Dan's move to Industrial and the shift east
 07:49 - Opening Oak Street Drafthouse
 08:25 - Desmond and Patrick talk their way in
 11:39 - Why East Side opened just down the street
 13:02 - Building a team and sharing the pie
 20:10 - The house that became Miss Angeline's
 24:29 - Surviving COVID and keeping the staff together
 31:00 - Taking over Dan's Silverleaf
 35:01 - Lewisville versus Denton
 37:30 - The next ten years downtown
 39:01 - Denton favorites and shout outs

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

For over a decade, one group has built a family of some of the Denton's favorite bars, growing from a single spot just off the square into four sister bars known today as East Oak Dangelines. Today on if you didn't know, I'm sitting down with the group behind it all, John Williams, Desmond Moore, and Patrick Longas. Denton's got it all. The food, the music, the art, and of course the people. And behind every corner, there's a story worth sharing. And that's what this podcast is all about. Denton's best, one conversation at a time. I'm Brad, and this is If You Didn't Know, Now You Know. Welcome back to another episode of If You Didn't Know, excited to have a big group. This is the largest crowd I've had in the room, guys. Thanks for being here. John, Desmond, Patrick. Really, really excited to visit with you today. You bet. Well, uh, John, you you wanted all the spotlight, right? You want you want us to just shine it all bright on you?

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Uh no, not so much. Luckily didn't have uh 12 people in here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Well, no, John was very gracious in in being willing to join, but certainly wanted he wanted Desmond and Patrick to join as well. And I know you guys are a huge part of what uh what's been built down there. So we're gonna dive into all that. Want to get to know uh each of you just a little bit better and just talk about you know what you what you love about Denton, why it's why it's working for you. So maybe we start there. I mean, John, you you and I kind of known each other for decades, uh sort of kind of, but really more your brother Paul and I went to went to school together in Crum until y'all moved to Denton. But uh you you've been in Denton really a long time.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

Yeah, uh I spent the first eight years of my life uh down in a little town called Ponder, Texas, which is uh just right outside of Crumb and Denton. Yeah. Uh then we moved out to uh Crumb for I think two, three years uh when I was eight, and that's where you kind of met Paul, and that's where I would play basketball with your little brother Booger. Uh Booger. Him and Danny Knight and Tyler Jones. We had a little dominating squad back in the day. Oh yeah. Uh but yeah, I moved uh moved to Denton uh back in, I think it was 90 90 or 91. Uh moved here, uh went to school here, went to Ryan High School, finished that, and then I went on to UNT. Yeah. And just had and got out and stuck in Denton's, but I'm kind of happy to kind of happy to be here. And you were you did their entrepreneurship program I did entrepreneurship and uh strategic management with a minor in hotel restaurant. And kind of using my degree a little bit. Actually using your degree, like I that's right.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

I I've got a master's in journalism from UNT, and I don't really use so much. Well, I guess maybe a little bit, but yeah. A little bit falls under that umbrella, doesn't it? But I think we're all UNT grads here. Is that right? You guys both went to UNT as well, but not not from Denton originally.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Uh no, I'm actually from uh Rallette, but I went to Rockwell High School. Okay. Uh so I came to Denton here in 2008. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

For UNT?

SPEAKER_02 3:08

Yep. Yeah. Yeah, and I got my degree in accounting, and then I went back for my master's in business administration with a folks in accountant.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Dang, no wonder y'all are running such a good shop over there. Very cool. Okay, what about you, Patrick?

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Um born in El Paso, Texas, uh, lived there until I was 19, uh, moved to Denton, uh, went to UNT, graduated alum, um, business and marketing.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Yeah. So excellent. Yeah, man, this is all good stuff. Well, I, you know, I said at the beginning, like if you don't know these guys, well, most people probably do. They certainly know which y'all which all to build. And I'm sure if you've ever been to Denton, you've been to one of one of your uh bars or uh facilities over there. So I don't know that that that we need to teach a lot of people about you guys, but uh anyway, yeah. I think pulling back the curtain a little bit and and knowing a little bit more about your upbringing, why why you decided this business, and and some of it may have just been a little bit of coincidence, but yeah, how'd you kind of get into the bar business?

SPEAKER_03 4:06

Uh how did I get into the bar business? Uh I would probably blame that on my brother, uh Paul Williams, but I've always kind of followed in his footsteps wherever he worked. I kind of followed behind and tried to do it a little bit better or the same as him. But yeah, uh back in uh 98-99, he was he bartended on Fry Street, and then he started bartending at uh Rockin' R, which was downtown. Uh and then when I turned 17, uh I got a job there. Bar back in uh it was bought out by some by actually Lucky Lose people that own Lucky Lose and Rip Rocks. Uh they owned it for a couple years, and that's kind of where I got the start of where I wanted to be. I was like, I want to be in a bar, I want to uh I want to run a bar, I wanna, this is this is my passion, this is what I want to do. I mean I was 18, 19 years old. So when it closed down in 99, uh Paul went to Lucky Lose. I went to Cool Beans, uh bar backed, worked at Kenschen there for a couple years. And then uh when I turned 21, uh Lucky Lose Cross Street, which was kind of the number one bar uh in town, or one of the top bars in town, uh they were losing their manager. And I went up to Lou Delaney and I said, Hey, I heard you you're looking for a new manager. Uh uh, I'd like to put an application in for the to for that job. He goes, Well, I think I've already found somebody. I was like, Well, I can do it and I can make you a lot of money. So uh if you choose me, I think you'll it it'd be a wiser choice for you. And yeah, a couple days later he called me, and that's I mean, I was 22, uh, still had a couple years in college left and got the job there and spent spent about 10, 12 years there, kind of learning all the ins and outs. And then I mean I started kind of looking for my own place when I was 27. We went up to Murphy's Boro, Tennessee. We went to uh a couple other cities around here. Luckily, uh none of them panned out. Uh, we almost actually bought uh the tavern back in the day, too. Uh, I'm kind of glad that didn't happen. I I I feel at home down on the square. Yeah. Uh it it just it feels at home. The the weird thing about it is I guess growing up uh and being in college too, I I didn't spend a lot of time uh going out at the square. Yeah, there wasn't a whole lot too much going on. Uh uh, I mean, you had Sweetwater, uh, you had loophole, uh, you you had Dan's, and I think that was about it. Yeah. And then uh Dan made the move from next to Sweetwater down to uh industrial. Right. That kind of opened up the whole kind of corridor of the east side. Yeah, people thinking, okay, maybe. There was nothing going on inside of town. I mean what you have? You had a bunch of car places and feeds to restaurants, nothing, no restaurants, nothing, nothing at all. So I think that vision that he had back in the day to open up dance down there kind of created uh for us an opportunity. And then we just kind of started looking for the right place. And I spent a little time down in Austin at Luster Pearl. Uh love that place, old house, ping pong, backyard. And that's where I got the kind of ideals like I want to open up a house bar and so just driving around, like looking at locations. And I had like four or five in mind. Uh the one at Oak Street Draft House was one in mine, but it wasn't for lease for sale until kind of driving by one day and saw a sign, called it. Signed the lease a few uh days later. Uh, we had some friends that we moved in uh that worked for us at Lucky Lou's uh to kind of give me some time to to figure out some city stuff because there was a lot of stuff trying to figure out how to convert it into a bar. Uh and that's kind of how it all how it all happened.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Well, so I want to peel that back a little bit, and we're gonna come back to you guys here in a second. But uh, I mean that that oak no that that oak street. Yeah, it is. It's really interesting. And so the oak street, I mean, were you looking for a house? Is that yeah, based on what you'd seen at Austin? This is kind of what I wanted to do. Yeah, okay, because I know that was the first, and east side was behind it, it was a different, different concept, or at least setup, right?

SPEAKER_03 8:12

But uh I can get to that in a little bit too.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Yeah, okay. So one of you joined in pretty much day one, right? Is that am I thinking about that right at Oak Street, Desmond? You you joined kind of day one at Oaks.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Um I had been going to Loues a lot and knew John was opening a bar, and I'm pretty sure I was incredibly annoying at the time because yeah, yeah. Anytime I would see him, I was like, hey, I know you're opening a bar, and for a bar you need employees.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

So you weren't working at Luz? No, you're you were just a customer and and knew John, gotten to know him, and said, if you do something, I want to come.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

Yeah. Uh I was actually working at Macy's at the time. Okay. Uh just do on the loading dock, so pretty much solitary work. Yeah. Uh headphone in all the time, show up your eight hours, get paid, go home. Right. Uh, but I had actually picked up a job a summer earlier at Buffalo Wild Wings, and that was my first introduction in the the service industry.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Uh, but I was only doing I was cashier and like host, so I was just kind of on the front lines. Um, but I got to experience that initial like camaraderie with servers and working with people and stuff like that. Right. I really loved it. So yeah, cool. Kind of just bothered John for I don't know, probably months. Uh started on the door and then kind of worked my way through bar back and bartending, and here we are.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

And so where are we now? You're are you the general manager of that location?

SPEAKER_02 9:29

I'm the GM of Miss Angelines. Of Miss Angelines. I was at Oak Street until 2019 when Angelines opened.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Gotcha. Okay. All right. Well, that's a great little success story. Kind of how do you how to get into it and just muscle your way into a position, right? A little bit muscle earned a little bit of a little bit of a little bit more. No, you definitely earned it. I mean, and the initial position kind of muscled in, but you earned it over.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

It wasn't a lot of thought. It was a lot of hard work, but also like it was always fun, so it made it pretty easy.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Yeah, yeah, that's cool. Well, Patrick, when did you get involved and where did you kind of see?

SPEAKER_01 10:03

I worked with John at Lucky Lou's, started there in 0506, right? Oh five oh six the Mavericks were on a uh playoff run. Yeah, the first one. And there was another uh I bothered Lou quite a bit. I currently had a job while I was bartending at Outback here in town. And um Lou uh preferred to hire or bring somebody on that actually needed the help and didn't have a job. Like zero incoming. He's like, Well, you already have a job, you've got money coming on. Um I would like to help other people that you know don't actually have money. And I would bother him, I would hound him, I would walk through that parking lot coming to and from class. And one of the days I was going through that parking lot, um one of their uh key employees, uh guy named Shep hurt his back. And I saw Lou and he kind of saw me. He said, I need you in tonight, can you make it? And that was kind of uh end of outback for me. And I started uh that night and it was uh started a Maverick playoff run, either second or third round. Yeah. Um and it was great, everything worked out well. Uh really, really enjoyed it. Um loved the business, learned it, met a ton of really, really good people. Um, kind of got introduced to a lot of the you know, the great culture here in Denton. Um finished up at UNT. Um John had opened Draft House in 2012, but there's a property up the street, up a little bit closer to the square. And um he snatched that up, put a lease down before uh someone else was able to come in and open a business. And 2012.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Was it another bar or what was that other business?

SPEAKER_03 11:42

It was a five-star commercial they sold. That's what was five-star.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

I mean, that's what was there, but was the the new group? Was there another group looking at it at the same time?

SPEAKER_03 11:49

So uh from what I remember, that it's been I mean, 13 years. From what I remember, I want to say I called Alex Payne, yeah, and I was like, hey, uh, what's this building all about? And he's like, hey, this out-of-town uh business uh wants to open up a craft beer place here. Yeah. And I was like, really? So hung up on him, thought about it for hours, like, hey, we gotta do something. I want to do something there, I want to sign a lease. Yeah, ASAP. And he's like, You ever wanna open up a place 500 feet from another place? I was like, Yeah, I'd rather compete with with ourselves than try to compete with somebody else coming down town and maybe take business from us. So that's kind of how that came apart. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

And then um and that one opened in what year then?

SPEAKER_03 12:33

We opened that what, 2013? 2013. Yeah. It was like a year, year and a half year and a half after Oak Street. Okay, okay. And how that kind of came down was uh, like I said, Patrick and I uh worked together at Luz from 2005 to 2012. He was also my roommate. Uh we lived over on Emory. I think we lived together over there for five, six years, something like that. And then uh I kind of asked him to say, hey, you have any interest in uh doing something with this? With and then he he thought about it for a little bit and it's like let's do it. Okay, yeah. And that's that's kind of where I I my my biggest focus is on the people. Like if didn't have these two guys or didn't have a Craig Ross or a uh uh Jeremy Dean or a Brian Stoltz, yeah, or a Kenny and Scott or a Tory or a lot of those guys, those those folks uh are have the most I mean. They're the ones really running and making a difference, they they make my life easy so I don't have to concentrate as much on every little detail and can focus on the bigger picture and that's yeah and that's that's and these guys do their job and they do it great. Yeah, and that's picking the picking the right team is kind of where that's key, absolutely especially if you want to expand. Yeah. A lot of I mean a lot of food and beverage places they they get it, they get in, they they hire their GM, they hire their assistant manager, and most of the time you see them, they're gone in a year or two, and somebody has to replace them. Well, we do we structured ours a little different where uh because I uh Desmond started with us at the beginning and he's gone up and now he's moved on to his own place and stuff like that. But also they they get a little piece of the pie each one. Yeah, so they have two, three, four, five percent here and there. Yeah, and then hopefully that can bring money in to them as well. Right. But just picking those right people, that's that's gonna dedicate themselves.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

At least for both these guys and probably others where they they they had been around you, you've been working with them for years, you kind of knew what what they were all about before you just hire them off the street, right? So to speak. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

I mean, Desmond was kind of like that. But he has a you'd at least kind of gotten to know him.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

But yeah, no, I mean, uh for both of you guys, that's a really cool story how you got got in and just kind of pestering, you know, John for you and Lou for you, where it's like, Gip, give me a shot, you know. And when you got the call to the big leads, you stepped right into it and and made the most of it, right, Patrick? So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

That's funny because there's a couple of those employees that we have now where it's like, can you work tonight? Yeah, here we go. Here's your job. Yeah, it's like this is your shot.

SPEAKER_03 15:10

Be there at the right time. This is your shot.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

So it's yeah, it's uh you know, it's I don't know if you want to call it a kind of just a uh a very uh fortunate happening and what was going on, but you know, draft house opened in 2012 and then yes, uh Eastside a year and a half later. But that was around the time of uh uh craft beer industry boom. Yeah. And you know, again, John was saying, why would you want to open another place down the street from a place you're already already going? Um obviously you wouldn't want to do that on simple principle terms of cannibalizing yourself, right? But having those uh distinct different features and concepts are what has kind of helped uh these bars thrive as well. Uh and obviously the expansion of Denton as well with the growth and um you know that all the surrounding areas and towns keep growing with your crumb, your Sanger, your Ponder, your Argo, your Aubrey, your Justin, your Pokemon, as these smaller areas tend to grow. Um a lot of folks are looking for entertainment, things to do, places to go. Um with this particular East expansion in Denton uh providing these um unique places for people to go for entertainment, have drinks and being with friends has been just extremely crucial. Yeah, and really, really good.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

And and I mean you mentioned on Dan when you know when Dan went down to industrial and and just kind of that that started probably ignited that little shift of people thinking east of the square or even downtown in some ways. Because it when y'all really started, I mean everything was really Fry Street focused, and so you kind of you know brought it brought it over here and helped, and now it's like, gosh, everything. I mean, everything seems to be over there, right?

SPEAKER_03 16:50

So yeah, I think you had at that time, I think you had four of the top five bars in town were on Fry Street that was kind of booming down there, and then it's kind of shifted and shifted down to the square area now.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

I didn't really come to the square very often until Oak Street opened either. Yeah. So I've been here for four years. Yeah, like I've been to for dinner and stuff at loophole, but that was about it. I didn't really come to hang out. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Yeah. Come down to Sweetwater for the two ounce whiskey and tequila shots and to see uh Yogi and all those that that crew over there because they were always good, and then come to see show a dance every once in a while and or Andy's and then yeah, I mean it wasn't it. It's just a just a lot more to do around town downtown now.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

That uh the the expansion a little in Ditton was ready to happen, and by offering that variety has been extremely beneficial.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Yeah. Well, I wanted to get I want to get into a couple, you know, Miss Angeline's will talk about that and then uh Dan's a little bit more, but before I get there, I mean yeah, you've started kind of competing with yourself, so to speak, and that first one moving up to East Side, but now you've got a lot of competition, and and and maybe you pay kind of paved the way in a way just like you show them you know the market that this can work over here, and so now you've got a lot of competition. How's that how's that work out?

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Well, we I mean a lot of times we don't view it as competition, um you know, as more and different concepts open close by, it brings more people to that area, yeah. The growth of the other smaller towns, um other folks around the area just looking for entertainment things to do brings people to the square, the east side of the square. So if another business similar wants to open up close by, we welcome it.

SPEAKER_04 18:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Um, and you know, that all in itself will just bring more people out to the area. I love that perspective.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

Ultimately, each spot is gonna have its own vibe. So like when East Side opened from Oak Street, like that's a totally different experience. Yeah, like Oak Street's more casual, Eastside you have more like that. I don't want to call it a sports bar, but yeah, like there's plenty of TVs there if you want to watch something that you've got you've got things to watch. Yeah, uh, but I mean now like some of the events that we like our bigger events, we partner with all the places on the square, so it just kind of helps out to uplift everybody.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Yeah, everything lifts up and and we've got more stuff coming, right? I think it I feel the same way. I would love to hear that you you say it, Patrick, because it's and and being in real estate and focusing a lot of my time in downtown in particular. Uh you know, I I think the more entertainment options we have just brings more people and it so it's gonna feed on itself and just bring it up.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Yeah, uh the community involvement is also is also huge in uh what we've done and accomplished out here. Um working with uh different organizations and and giving back and I think the community involvement's been really big.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Yeah, and y'all have been huge on that. I've got a note about that, but I mean you know, some of the things that you're involved in and giving back and ways you're giving back, and want to touch on that because that not only is it especially that y'all have done that, but I think at least in Denton, that's how you it's part of your success, right? Yeah, it's very, very important. That's awesome. Well, let's jump over to Miss Angeline. So, when did that? I mean, it's like again, you're gonna cannibalize yourself literally right next door here. What are we doing?

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Uh yeah, it was it's I guess kind of a funny story. We all used to live in that house.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Y'all lived there, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

Oh, okay. Uh I didn't realize that. They were there for longer than I was.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Um, but yeah, we this is why y'all were running these other two.

SPEAKER_03 20:25

You already had these other two, or before we we opened up East Side and there was a um there was like a thrift store or something in there. Uh and she closed down to to move it, move up north, or something like that, and we got the lease on it.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

What was it called? Boyden's Sons Vintage.

SPEAKER_03 20:39

Something like that. And that's when Patrick and I moved in there. We hadn't I mean I know eventually we wanted to do something with it, but we had no idea of what or how or but just having the space, having control of it, yeah. Control of it so nobody somebody else doesn't pop up a bar next to us so could compete with ourselves again. That's kind of how that went down. And then Desmond moved in uh while we were he was at Oak Street and we were running the east side, uh, and then kind of just figured it out one day, like, hey, let's try to.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

I mean, you kind of knew because there was I still remember specifically, I think it was an April Fool's Day. Like I'm just up in my room and he sends me this article about a pie shop opening up in Denton and a house. Yeah. He's like, it's our house. I was like, what? What? It's like Porian Pies or something like that. But I was like, I think I'd only been there for a few months, and I was like, I gotta move again. You were more worried about where you're gonna live than like a business. So and he had mentioned before that there it was gonna turn into something, but I was like, dang, I didn't know it was gonna be that close. Yeah, yeah, that soon, yeah, right. Right in the city. Oh yeah, he got me pretty good with that one. But yeah, I I had moved John and moved John and Am Amanda moved out. Uh I moved out probably a year after so after that, and then Pete moved out and the house was essentially like bartenders would live there for a while.

SPEAKER_04 21:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Uh before we pulled the trigger on it and changed it into Miss Angelines and what we did demo in eight months or so.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Yeah, I think so. Summer eight months. That's cool.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

And that one's got a little different I mean, almost a little more. It's different cocktail. A little more cocktail, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Uh yeah, we leave the craft beer to East Side and Oak Street. So we have we also offer craft beer, but it's a smaller amount. Uh-huh. Uh but yeah, we've been going since uh September of 2019. Naturally, we went through we made it through COVID, fortunately. Not naturally on that one.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

Six months in?

SPEAKER_02 22:24

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

So that was that was tough times, but we got through that and then we've been chugging along ever since.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Yeah. The uh the story behind uh the name for Miss Angeles is uh pretty unique in itself as well. I'm probably where that come from.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Uh I can give you the simplified version, but it was a uh a bartender that was on the square during prohibition instead of uh offering you alcohol, she would sell you peanuts and you get a shot of whiskey with it. I see. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:53

There was uh some I guess some northerners that were trying to run her out of town from stopping sell whiskey. So she stopped selling whiskey and started selling peanuts for ten cents, and you get a free shot of whiskey with it. And that's the barmaid Miss Angeline, is where she's a real real legend in Denton in the bar.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

That's what Sean Tree says. Yeah, hey, if Sean. Yeah, if Sean says we gotta believe it for sure. Yeah, I think he's probably right. That's cool, very cool story.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Yeah, Angeline's essentially like the the in-between of what Oak Street and Eastside are. So we offer a lot of mocktails, wine, more of the cocktail scene.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

So is that I mean, probably growing in your your revenue stream is the mocktails and kind of other non-alcoholic beverages, right? I mean, seems to be a just a little bit of a shift on on alcohol consumption.

SPEAKER_03 23:38

Yeah, RTDs and uh cocktails are kind of the growing industry right now with a little bit of tequila and uh you got a little bit of uh your THC cocktails and your mocktails that are kind of showing a forefront runner. Crop beer is still out there, cock beer is still selling. It's just you can't if you put all your eggs in the basket and focus on that, then it's gonna be a tough business right now.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Yeah, the unique variety of options available has been extremely important in the uh success and growth of angel alien for sure.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Well, so yeah, let's let's go back to that COVID thing because we wasn't long after yeah, let's not go back literally to that. But no, uh not long after opening code hits, and and you guys obviously, like everybody, you kind of shut down. And and uh, but I think what y'all did to kind of pivot or at least try and help some of your crew at that time was really cool. Tell tell us that story.

SPEAKER_03 24:28

Uh I'll get into a couple pieces of that, but I mean I would say this if Miss Angelines was a standalone bar by itself without a support of East Side of Road Street, I probably would have closed down shortly after that. Just because we were in the window of we didn't get any kind of support being closed down because we were too new to open.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

Yeah. So that you hadn't proven that.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

Yeah, you didn't have cells to do it. We I think we shut down for over six months. Uh luckily uh we were able to to fight through it, uh, figure it out and get open on the other side and stay continued success. But one of the biggest uh things that made us so so successful coming out of COVID was we kept uh 99% of our our staff. Uh and the way we did that is that we a lot of the a lot of places took off and didn't do nothing for five months. Right. We did the totally opposite thing. Uh we are, I mean, especially me at first, I I was like, I I can't sit around and do nothing for however long this is gonna be. We're going into it, I thought it was gonna be three or four weeks. Obviously, that was not right. Uh uh, so what we did was about a weekend. Uh uh, I had a line on business when I was a kid, and I know how easy that is to kind of pick up, and most people most people can push.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

There's a few that didn't quite make it.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

So when we went out to uh pawn shop and just got four or five mowers, some some wheat eaters and some other stuff. Uh a bunch of our customers um uh dropped off stuff. Yeah. East in inside of East Side smelled like gas for about, I don't know, seven months after even after we opened. Anyway. But we we had, I think a week one or week two, we had I think over a hundred yards, just our the the amount of stuff that we did to give back to the community, the community was giving back to us, which was awesome. So we were able to get people paid, uh we were also still paying them uh um uh salary or some kind of uh money monetary for I want to say we did that for three or four months, uh going in, we opened back up and then close back down and we had to kind of figure some other stuff out. But so we were able to pay our pay our folks, we were able to find work for them, keep them busy. Uh summer hit and a couple people fell off because it got got a little hot. But that was the main thing that after we got out of COVID, and I don't know if you remember going to restaurants and bars after COVID. Yeah, there was a lot of people that uh weren't there that was before, yeah. So training was difficult, uh hiring new people was difficult, finding new people was difficult because a lot of people were staying on the government support, yeah, because they could make a lot of money on that. Yeah, uh uh most of our people didn't do that, and we were able to retain that staff, and we didn't have to retrain, we didn't have to go through hoops, we have the same faces coming back. So that that made coming back so much easier and made us much so much more successful. So taking care of our folks, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Love it. I mean you you guys just adapted. I mean, you just I mean and I think being able to kind of saying we're gonna we're gonna pay our people, we're gonna keep them and try and figure out some creative way to to do that. And then we spread kudos to you guys.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

Spread a little love throughout the community. Uh I think we had Golki and Shrimp Matter, uh a couple other places uh uh donate money to us, and instead of just donating the money and kind of splitting it up, we we went to took that money, went to uh our friends over at Sweetwater, went to friends over Chestnut Tree, and a few other places, and we opened, hey, I want to open tap for my staff, they can come over and get a meal. So we used that money to to feed the staff, and then yeah, and then one week it was it was it was good, but it was a nightmare story. But we uh one of our uh guys, Patrick, his wife, worked for uh Cisco, and we had her do a big order, like grocery order, and we had to a couple people had to split it all up, and then that was the day, yeah. People come get meat, eggs, bread, sandwich, beans, just I mean, I think enough to get you a couple weeks because it was gonna last a couple weeks and then it didn't last a couple days. It didn't know what's gonna happen after that. So, I mean, I I would say my busiest time of my life might have been those five months, yeah, just dealing with government stuff and three bars and 60 people trying to put focus on taking care of them and not taking care of myself.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

So yeah, man, that kudos to you guys for because I I remember thinking this having a small business ourselves and what are we gonna do? How are we gonna pay people, you know, all that? And so like leaning into it, just figuring out like right, we're gonna we're gonna make it happen.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

So John had said, like the community definitely helped us out quite a bit because I mean you could start a lawnmowing business, but it's COVID. People are kind of doing their own thing anyway, so they can get their own yard, but they were always repeat customers and they would always like tip us very well, and it was it was kind of nice. And there was also like I went to work for Total Wine because they were like, Hey, we're gonna need extra hands on staff and stuff like that. And then uh a few people went to Fisher, so it was right. There was a lot of hands that were like reaching out to help us out, and that was kind of nice. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Yeah, I was gonna say something very similar to what Desmond said. Um, at first with the yard attending, um, majority of our clients were our long-term um bar regulars and customers and established relations that we had already built up and uh uh needed the help, wanted the help, and they actually involved with us and help as well.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

So without that community involvement, you know, I mean you'll probably kind of got you'll probably already kind of knew it before COVID, but I mean what what did that show you about the way the way this town works?

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Um you know, just uh helping out and getting help back. Um it it's it it really uh in itself with that community uh goes to show that it it can be extremely benefit beneficial working with the community and giving back, getting back as well.

SPEAKER_03 30:18

We sold a ton of shirts and uh the men and I drove around delivering shirts for a few weeks and then everybody else kind of started helping, and then it was I mean, I don't know how many shirts we sold, but I had to be upwards of five, six, seven, eight hundred, but we used that money to help pay staff and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Yeah. And early on to um masks. Uh I know we had our shirt company as well, uh, was able to provide the masks because I know that was extremely difficult to find is right and to literally to leave your house or go anywhere and anyone needed a mask. And you couldn't order them, you couldn't go, you couldn't buy them anywhere. So with the help of our uh t-shirt printing group as well, we were able to uh uh sell masks as well. And that was huge.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

That's cool. Well, we we get through all that, get through COVID, and when did the when did the Dan's thing become an opportunity? How did that turn out?

SPEAKER_03 31:11

Uh shortly uh what was that? It might have been the end or the beginning with 21. It's it's so Dan's always I've known Dan since probably I was nine years old. I used to play baseball with his son, uh little Danny. Okay. Uh so we've known each other. He's known my dad. He's he's real close to my uh uh uncle that passed away a few years back. But so we've always known each other, known each other's family, and uh he's uh not only with me, but he's like, hey, uh not just anybody, like you wanna you wanna buy a bar? And it just joking around. Right. But then I think they kind of got serious and kind of wanted to find some somebody to help them with that uh uh just adventure and trying to figure out how to how to keep dance around because that's that was kind of our focus. It's like if he's interested in selling it, then if somebody else gets it and do it, yeah, then dance is not a part of this landscape anymore. It'd be kind of weird because yeah, like I said, I've been going there since 17. Sorry, Dan. You weren't drinking uh seeing shows there, and it's just um it's just one of one of those staples of Denton that you don't you don't want to lose, especially uh just uh the way music venues are closing down left and right now. You you don't want to lose something special like that. So we we figured out a uh kind of a deal where Dan could still keep keep around, he's still getting paid. Uh he still goes in there and kind of does his his thing. He just doesn't have a as much stress as he wants to. And he's he's go down south and enjoy his uh little piece of heaven down in uh Trlingua every once in a while. So yeah. Uh hopefully he's happy. Hopefully, uh Marcus and Chris. Uh we've I've known those guys for a while. Uh hopefully they're happy to see that Dan is still alive.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

And so I think they are, and I know the community is for sure. So good work on that, guys. I mean that that yeah, I think everybody was a little bit like, well, what how's this gonna change? Or what's again, but I mean, man, it just feels like dance.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

Yeah, I mean, we we didn't change a whole lot. We we uh uh kind of put some more focus onto the bar and and span sound booth, span, yeah, smash sound booth, stuff like that. Do a few upgrades, but it's it's dance silver leaf and it always will be, hopefully.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

Yeah, that was kind of the goal, was not to change it up since it's already got its own clientele, and right, you know, you don't want to reach in and take what they already like and put in your own spince, like just improve what we can.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Yeah. Well, uh, as we kind of start wrapping up, what I mean we've talked kind of what you've done. I know you you've got you've got a uh deal going to Louisville now, um and and probably looking at others, or what do you not right now? You're pretty happy with what you got going on.

SPEAKER_03 33:41

Yeah, we got uh there's a lot of stuff on everybody's plate right now. So we're trying to just put a little focus on uh family and focus on just uh what the next five, ten years uh landscape looks like for what we do have, and yeah, kind of be blessed that we're still in business and and kind of hopefully concentrate on yeah, family.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Well, I I don't think you're just saying that because I've called you numerous times and be like, hey, what about this or that? You know, I've got this property that I'm selling or needle ease, y'all want to do something. It's like well, we're pretty happy with what we got.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

You can always take a look. Yeah, uh, yeah, and like I said, we we opened that place up in Louisville. Yeah, and that was a that was a I'm not really interested, I'm not really interested in the city. City really came hard at you, right? Yeah, it's a city property, so they reach out to us and like, hey, come down and look at it. And it took a few, like probably about a year, year and a half for me to be like, all right, I'll I'll come down and look at it. Uh went down and looked at it, and then about five minutes, like, oh god, I think that's here we go. Like it just it just one of those things when you put your eyes on a property or in in my yeah, my my visual stuff, I just kind of see what it's gonna be. See what it could be, and then and that's kind of all she wrote after that.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Well, and not to not to knock knock Louisville in any way, but what having done that now, what what does it make you appreciate about Denton even more, maybe? Or or maybe you're like, I want to get out of here. Or you want to get out?

SPEAKER_03 35:00

Uh no comment on I would say uh I never really had a issue in the building process uh with Denton. I mean, I did have my first project uh somehow lined up to where my father-in-law was this inspector, but he was probably the he was probably the toughest inspector I've had in in my, I guess it's now six properties that I've GC'd and done. Uh the the benefit of Louisville, I guess, was that the city owned it, the city wanted us there, and they bent over backwards to to make sure that that we got open on time and stuff like that. Uh, but then I've never really had an issue with with building or I think they I mean I'll I've always said that don't one, don't be disrespectful to your inspector or any city official because that's gonna come back. I mean it's gonna come back and haunt you, and and just just I mean, that's how it goes in life too, just being nice and being respectful to everybody that you come across as good you never know who you're gonna talk to.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, establish that good relationship.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Well, the uh I mean different, a little bit different clientele. I mean, at least with the schools here, probably a little bit different.

SPEAKER_03 36:08

A little bit older.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Yeah, I would say the the culture in itself would probably be one of the biggest differences, obviously, with uh having the two schools here. Yeah. Um just the culture in itself is is different.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

There's not like a lot of just like bar spots in downtown Louisville. So it's usually restaurants that have a bar in it and that's where people would hang out. So it's just a different concept to them.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

And trying to get them to experience that and see that we can just go out and have a casual beverage every now and again. Right.

SPEAKER_03 36:39

And just being here 45 years and all the relationships that I've sure done in the last 45 years has definitely helped here in Denton. It's it helps in Lizzo a little bit too, but that's trying to now create those same kind of relationships down there.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

Yeah, bit of that uncharted territory for sure into luck that's not too far away.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

Well, don't don't get out there too far and go anywhere. You you guys are a Denton treasure for sure in what you're doing. And uh uh now that you've got Dan's, like it's got all that history too. And but it's you know, Denton doesn't like change. I mean, we've we saw that kind of when Hara's house was changing their little ownership. I mean, a little flare up there. It's like these things can work, right? And and I think they'll be successful there too, the new owners. But uh, you know, we don't like our change, so don't don't go anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 37:21

Yeah, change is hard. It's just yeah, uh, I mean, especially when change is hard, you got you have social media now that's amplifies it, yeah. A fire starts real quick.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

Yeah, it does, yeah. Well, what do you what do you see for downtown Denton in the next 10 years? I mean, continue growth, we die off here. What are we doing?

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Growth, good things, uh, a lot of positive. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:43

Hopefully, uh moving in the right direction. Hopefully, filling up storefronts, uh, getting those all full. Uh hopefully, maybe the talks about parking garage. I know parking, yeah. Sometimes parking can be a nightmare, but it's a nightmare wherever you go into a to a larger, I guess, downtown area. Yeah. Uh, but hopefully those can be on the horizon and I mean and just keep doing what we're doing as far as working together with the community and yeah, and not try to fight each other and try to be more business friendly with everybody.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

Love it. Well, I I have seen that uh really even more than ever in the last few years as I've gotten involved in the what we're doing with the fine arts, and the way their approach is that community focus and just working with everybody. Like it's just like we're not this isn't just us against you or whatever, everything. And I know you guys have been operating that that way for years. And so, I mean, as as everybody thinks that way, you know, we're all just gonna be happier and more successful, and we're just gonna build that much more of a special place. So you guys are so integral to that and appreciate what you what you do and how you do it, how you go about it. Well, I like to kind of wrap up with any any any restaurants or bar bars other than your own, maybe now that you you'd like to give a shout out to that you like to like to visit in Denton or that is kind of one of your favorites.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Um you know, everyone in this particular area has been you know very crucial in all of us uh working together and bringing people to this area and being successful. Um, I'm really looking forward to what uh Cody Smithers is bringing in next door to Dan's too. He's got a new barbecue concept going in there, and yeah, I think it's gonna be great.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

Yeah, yeah. And like you said, mentioned Harvest House. We started about the Harvest House is still sticking around and gonna be here for years to come and be become more of a dent stable. And then you got uh uh you got your great folks over at Hickory Street Lounge, uh Charlie Hoochie's. Uh just lost Mike over at Fuzzies, or I'm sorry, at uh uh Roosters. Right. Uh he's got doing his own thing a little in Little Elm. Uh but there's a lot of great people in this area. Uh also lost a key piece to the square. I mean Suzanne over at uh Chestnut Tree.

SPEAKER_04 39:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:50

Uh that that kind of hurts uh the the landscape of the square, but I think she's excited about what comes is coming to her for for the her new her role and what she's planning on doing.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

Yeah, she's got she's got a bright future and certainly sticking around it. You know, if anybody wants her food, she's she's gonna bring it, make it and bring it to you, so more catering focus. But those are those are some good ones, yeah. I'm I'm excited about Smithers too, like some good barbecue downtown, you know. Uh and juicy pigs good. Yeah, I mean, no knock on them, but yeah, I'm excited about actually about to go try the Aglio Pizza Place.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

Okay, oh uh Congress?

SPEAKER_00 40:28

Is that right? Yeah, I've been there once. It is good.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

I haven't tried it yet, but I'm going on Saturday, and then I always enjoy going to Pacone. That's always good stuff. That's great.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Yeah. We got so much good stuff going on.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

To name a few.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Yeah, to name a few, and many more. Well, guys, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate you sitting down. You each get a hat, and you're gonna have to kind of fight over which one. These are Norman Roscoe hats that I like to give out at the end. So if y'all want to fight over which one you take there, but uh that's a little gift for me for taking the taking the time to join. Maybe I need some some of your merch to we'll have to get you one of those Eastoke dangelines hats.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

Eastoke dangelines, that's right. Uh maybe.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

Well, again, if you for some some reason somehow didn't know these guys, uh now you do. We're really excited to get to know you, get to know you a little bit better and appreciate you joining us. Yeah, thanks for having us. All right, thanks.