Versatile Views
Best friends Jack Knave and Charlie Darling are your co-hosts of a brand new LGBTQ+ podcast, promising top-tier takes and bottomless banter. They will be talking about queer life in London, LGBTQIA+ issues, queer media and pop culture with frequent cheeky anecdotes along the way. 💜💚
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Versatile Views
Heartstopper (S1&2) - A Versatile Re-View
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You asked for it, and we're finally delivering. In this episode Jack and Charlie talk about Heartstopper Seasons 1 and 2, which they've watched in preparation for the Heartstopper movie coming out in July. They cover why it took them years to jump on this bandwagon and whether they enjoyed doing so. Do these two 30+ year olds enjoy a show for teenagers? What was relatable, what was realistic, and what was ridiculous? Listen to find out.
That's how how he does it. No, that was on it.
unknownHi.
SPEAKER_00I'm Jick Neveson.
SPEAKER_01And I'm Charlie Darspring. And this is Vertatale Views, the podcast where we start parts.
SPEAKER_00And ask, why are we like this?
SPEAKER_01And this week we're talking about Heartstopper. Your best English accent.
SPEAKER_00Well, I've got to. There's there's no Scottish accents in this show. No. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01No representation. You know, something about this show, it just lacks representation.
SPEAKER_00Very good, very good.
SPEAKER_01Why are we talking about Heartstopper? Due to popular demand, if you can believe it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're gonna jump right in. Wait, actually, we're gonna do a whistle stop tour of our tops and bottoms this week.
SPEAKER_01We're doing quickie tops and bots.
SPEAKER_00Billet points. Me first.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I'll go first. Yeah. My top of the week is I wait, what is it? I've forgotten.
SPEAKER_00Well, we haven't got our bloody day.
SPEAKER_01My top of the week is Kylie Ray Jepsen released a new song this week. So excited. She has a new album coming out in September. Okay, and watch your bottom. Bottom of the week is I haven't been loving the heat wave. Maybe it would have been okay if I could have sat on my sofa and done nothing all week or gone somewhere with Aircon all week. I could do neither. I walked around the city, I pounded those streets in the heat. I was a sweaty mess.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you did. You painted those streets much like they painted the streets of Paris and I stopped for season two. There's references and links everywhere. Okay, my bottom is also this heat wave. Gosh darn it. I am a melty Scottish man. Can't deal. I look, it's gotta be said, I look a freaking mess. I am just having to live with it, and so are you if you're watching.
SPEAKER_01So it's very warm in here. We're doing the best we can. And watch the top of the week.
SPEAKER_00The top of my week was watching Heartstopper. Oh yeah. No, no, but it was one of the tops of my week. No, the top of my week actually is this. I've been so excited to come and speak to you because not speaking to you about something that we are both experiencing is hard.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. We've watched two entire seasons of this show without speaking a word about it to each other in the last week.
SPEAKER_00And gosh, my my TV was burning up. It was like, girl, I'm gonna show you this, and I'm switching off.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I started watching it on Wednesday night, and since then I've watched however many hours of TV is.
SPEAKER_00And for you, that's unheard of.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's how much I love the listener and the viewer because you wanted this.
SPEAKER_00We love you.
SPEAKER_01We released a little clip on socials last year, actually, and it got a lot of engagement.
SPEAKER_00It did. It's one of the very few pieces of media that we fit out there that has had lots of engagement.
SPEAKER_01And in that clip, we're talking about how we hadn't watched Heartstopper and that we didn't want to. And so many people told us to grow up. Get a grip. Build a bridge. Get over it and watch it.
SPEAKER_00And we did it. We're watching it. Because this is this, sorry, there's a fly in here. And it will not move until we start talking. And then the minute we do, it just anyway. Sorry. Back to us talking about us.
SPEAKER_01We started watching it because next month the Heartstopper movie comes out. Heartstopper Forever. The exciting finale of the entire show. So we thought, let's do that before the film comes out. I mean, this is the perfect time to do it.
SPEAKER_00It is. Let's let's latch on to that 15 seconds of infamy that we managed to secure ourselves by being pretty neutral on the show itself, but we were just saying how it we were afraid it might affect us.
SPEAKER_01I think I just suspected I wouldn't relate to it at all. And so I wouldn't be interested in watching it.
SPEAKER_00For me, it is to do with envy. Oh, interesting. Yeah, and I was reflecting a little bit more on what that meant. I'm not just envious of what the show was portraying and the fact that I didn't have it. I'm also envious a little bit of the actors themselves. Interesting.
SPEAKER_01Should we get into that more later? Later. Later, Kidding Whiskers. Disclaimer, this is not a recap of the show. We're not going to do a blow-by-blow of what happens. We're assuming you've watched it and you're a big fan.
SPEAKER_00And if you haven't, go and watch it. This is your opportunity now. Spoiler alert, we do recommend it. We do. Wait, do we? I don't know. I do. I recommend it. I also recommend it.
SPEAKER_01Okay, okay. To like most people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, to the majority of people.
SPEAKER_01To human beings.
SPEAKER_00Why? Let's get into it.
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah, we can. We can talk about overall impressions of the show. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Overall impressions versus our first impressions.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Just to reiterate, we've watched the first two seasons and nothing further than that.
SPEAKER_00And I have not researched anything further than that. Don't know what happens in season three.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. So yeah, I'd recommend it. I've been I have been enjoying it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, me too.
SPEAKER_01I think it's a very good show.
SPEAKER_00I think it's a good show.
SPEAKER_01Overall, the show is great. I think it's brilliantly casted. Yes. I think it's very well paced. Oh, okay. I think the dialogue is believable. You do? Mm-hmm. Right. I enjoy the cute effects they use. Okay, so me too. I think the characters are likable.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Most of them.
SPEAKER_01It's a wonderful soundtrack. The soundtrack is banging. There's great character development. There is, actually, yes. And I think it's full of genuinely touching moments. I thoroughly concur. But you did disagree with a couple of those points.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So where I disagree with you, well paced. I do not think the first season was particularly well paced. I do think the second season was exceptionally well paced. Perhaps too well paced because I felt like it was going at breakneck at certain points. But I would rather that than the opposite.
SPEAKER_01I have to respectfully disagree with you there. Why? I think the pacing in season one, while it was slower, I think it was a very good setup for everything that was to come. So it was laying all the groundwork slowly, introducing us to all the characters we need to be dealing with. Okay. And just laying the foundations, just like hinting at the storylines to come.
SPEAKER_00You know what? This is where I think I'm getting confused. I agree that the story was well paced. Right. I disagree with how the reveals were paced in the story. So for example, you would just get like dumps. Oh. So all of a sudden it was like, oh, and then I was billied and blah blah blah blah blah. And I was like, okay, but if you're gonna take your time revealing it, then take your time revealing it. Don't just dump everything. So it's a bit of a tell-don't show for you. And that's where I get into believable dialogue. Yes. Because I feel like it's very I was watching a really interesting YouTube video. I'll I'll find it and I'll link it below. But someone was talking about the three aspects of good dialogue, and it has to be believable, it has to drive the story, and it also has to relate to the character. And the problem is it's really, really good character dialogue, and it's very good at driving the plot. Yeah, I don't believe a lot of it. So I g I feel like we're in this fairy tale dialogue where all it's doing is advancing plot and advancing character, but it doesn't feel true.
SPEAKER_01Actually, I have to agree with that.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because I was gonna say I thought the dialogue was believable, and you're saying it is, or we're watching a bunch of teenagers awkwardly fumble their way through these quite complex issues and conversations, and it would be stilted, it would be uncomfortable, it would be it wouldn't just fall off the tongue, they wouldn't be eloquent.
SPEAKER_00No, they would not. They would not be eloquent.
SPEAKER_01And that's that was for me. I was like, I like that. That is relatable. Yes, it drove the plot for sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But the third point was What I'm saying is a character wouldn't necessarily go, and then this person bullied me, and that's why I've come to this conclusion about myself. It just was so expository.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so that's where I'm like the pacing was t difficult for me because of the expository nature of a lot of the dialogue, and that's why I didn't believe it.
SPEAKER_01Fair enough. That's something I observed in some other instances. For example, I'll just say it when when Tao is talking to Nick about, oh, I think I'm so afraid of people leaving me because my dad died when I was 12. And it's like, yes, that probably is why, but there's no way a 15 or 16-year-old would be able to figure that out.
SPEAKER_00On the spot at that moment. Exactly. Because there's nothing leading up to that moment. All of that is true, all of that is believable for the character. The character saying at that moment in time is not believable for me. Yeah. Great. We're on the same page. What was that? Just something on the floor. Oh, yeah.
unknownOkay, good.
SPEAKER_00I'm not being clumsy today. Okay, likable characters. I do think that the characters that are supposed to be likable are, for the most part, there's one character I had Esh is why. Go on, name them. No, no. Okay, Imogen. Interesting. I was like, girl, if you don't get off masking and away from Matt Neg and Matt Charlie, but it was fine because I do think she had a really interesting arc. So, but we'll get to that later.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we're gonna talk about characters in more detail a bit later on.
SPEAKER_00So not all of the characters were likable for me, but for deliberately dislikable reasons. Yeah. So that was good writing and good acting. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Okay, fabulous. First impressions then. Okay, so when I think way back to 2021, I think when all of this was happening, I was just like, babies, I'm not but I'm not getting on board, I'm not doing this, I'm not getting on this train. So much was wrapped up in it. Like I said, I was jealous, I was just jealous. I have always wanted to have this sort of wish fulfillment television, but I want to be in it, fulfilling my wishes. Yeah. And so I was somewhat resentful of some of this cast getting to live their best lives on the television. But then also, I didn't have the best experience at high school, didn't have the worst experience at high school. I did have, you know, when we think back to it, I did kiss the basketball player.
SPEAKER_01Yes, we've heard that story.
SPEAKER_00The bisexual basketball player. Ultimately, I made a decision that I didn't want to watch it because I thought I would not like it, and I was wrong.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it passed me by as well. I felt like it just wasn't for me. I'm a bit older than this target audience. I do actually still think that's true.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I concur.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It is a fantastical TV show. Well, I thought it was. I thought it was gonna be like extremely positive in every sense. Like happiness, rainbows, everyone's happy all the time. That's what I thought it was. And I was like, I'm not really interested in this. I say wish fulfillment, a fantasy.
SPEAKER_00Oh, because you and I teenagers. Yeah, we like the we like the real stuff. That's the point when we watch stuff. We like to see why is it hard? Are these people acting in keeping with their morals and beliefs and what's happened to them before and what's happening right now?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I will say that belief was kind of debunked pretty quickly, as in the first episodes and as I went through the first season, that no, like the story takes place in a inner approximation of the real world. Actually, the setting of the story I found a little bit triggering because it was quite realistic to my experience.
SPEAKER_00As in the Midlands, etc.
SPEAKER_01It took me right back to high school, my high school or secondary school as I'd call it. The the setting, just the kind of bleak architecture. Well, oh yeah. Yeah, physically the building is very similar, the uniforms quite similar, and just the sea of straight boys. Oh god. I don't know. That's just how I look back on that.
SPEAKER_00Just this the ocean of conformity.
SPEAKER_01Great way of putting it. Yeah. And it's it's quickly established that Charlie has been bullied in the previous year.
SPEAKER_00Quite badly.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I mean, the extent of which is revealed slowly. I was filled with a feeling of foreboding from the first episode, which didn't dissipate until season two. Yeah. I was like, something bad is gonna happen. Oh yeah. Except I kind of knew it wouldn't because this show was very like rainbows and unicorns and very happy.
SPEAKER_00Well it wants to show people that it does get better.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And it does. And it does, it does. But I just couldn't shake that feeling. So the whole plot of season one of Charlie having feelings with someone, he's not even sure if that person can reciprocate those feelings. That's a really awkward, horrible situation that I can obviously relate to like when I was a teenager. And then when Nick decides not decides.
SPEAKER_00Well, he does decide, he he chooses to act upon it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I say when when Nick realizes his feelings.
SPEAKER_00He realizes his feelings, but he decides to act upon them.
SPEAKER_01Sure. I was like, oh god, he's gonna come out and they're gonna be a out couple in school, and I'm dreading it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I mean that is one of the central conflicts of this story of season two, right? Sure. They both dread it, and then they both want it by equal measures, and in the end, it turns out to be a bit of a combination of what they both feared and both hoped for, but that's beautifully cut. But I do understand that feeling of foreboding. Once we got to the I can't remember what what episode it was, but there was an end of an episode, and Charlie was really thinking to himself about what it would be like for them to come out, and then he remembered the bullying. And it's juxtaposed with Nick flouncing off down the street, feeling so happy and optimistic. And I'm getting goosebumps thinking about it now. All I could think was, oh my gosh, Nick's about to get jumped. That is what that is what would happen in this moment, and actually it's you know very refreshing to watch a story where the the relationship isn't the conflict, it and they aren't having a bad life. Yeah. What is actually difficult is building a relationship and having friends and keeping everyone happy, which you can't do. And your families. And oh, and your families.
SPEAKER_01Perhaps you just because of our generation, we've engaged a lot of media, like queer media, where the stories are quite bleak and sad. And I think that's one of my actually one of my gripes with the kind of genre is a lot of queer movies, gay movies, uh don't have happy endings. And or even if they do, they go through some like real tough times that are like really like horrible to watch.
SPEAKER_00And even before that, if there was any gay representation in a straight show, it was literally to progress the story and character development of the straight characters. Oh, yeah, completely sidelines. So it's nice to see some joy.
SPEAKER_01As maybe one of the first pieces of queer LGBT media a teenager could watch, this is great. Because it doesn't shy away from the difficulties. No. But it doesn't go down that like really dark road. It doesn't harp on them. Yeah. Okay, so we did agree on a few things. You said that the soundtrack was good. I loved the soundtrack.
SPEAKER_00Well, actually. There were you about to argue with yourself again. Yeah, no, you know me. If you're about to agree with me, I've got to disagree with myself. There's an amazing moment at the end of episode one where, gosh, so much actually happens in episode one. I didn't even realise. Looking at my notes, I thought, surely they weren't like chatting yet. But Nick finds out about some of the horrors that Charlie has been facing with the current person that he's dating, and is conflicted and wants to be there for him. And so he sends Charlie a message and it has a kiss at the end. And the song Don't Delete the Kisses by Um I'm pretty sure it's Will Fallis, I'm almost certain. Is it not Will Fallis? Don't delete the Willis. His name can't be Will Fallis. Wolf Alice. It's our band. Wolf Alice, yeah. Got it. Wolf Alice, Don't Delete the Kiss. And it just was like a beautiful moment, but there was so much on the nose moments where I was like, alright, okay. Genuinely. But a lot of the bands are British. A lot of the music is really well picked. Yeah, curated. It adds, yeah, curated, thank you. And it really does elevate the rest of the story.
SPEAKER_01And it really frames the story, it being a British story. As you said, the British indie vibes are really, really there. And then some pop music as well, like Rina Sawayama. Um our church is British. Yeah, church.
SPEAKER_00Uh churches are Scottish.
SPEAKER_01There's our Scottish representation in the show. Although there is some Canadian representation in season two.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh, I could not believe when I heard CRG. Was it Combi Maybe?
SPEAKER_01No, no, it was uh Run Away with Me.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh, no, of course it was Run Away with Me.
SPEAKER_01Which is also a very on the nervous moment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but I was a bit like this is a bit my best moment in this story. But you know what, girl, I am living.
SPEAKER_01And I loved when they when they were in Paris, they had a lot of French music. Oh my gosh. Oh gorgeous. I need to look at all that.
SPEAKER_00You and I love a bit of a French pop moment, don't we? Yeah. I love okay, and then another aspect that you mentioned that you loved, and I loved it too. I loved the animation that was added into it. Really cute and really effective. So effective, very evocative. One amazing moment is when we have the non-redemption of the bully, which we'll get to later, and the pride flag sort of washes out from the college and doesn't quite reach him. And then he walks away from it. Then he walks away from it, and I was like, I'm getting goosebumps again.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that was brilliant. Also, when Darcy walks to her house and there's like the miasma around the front door, she's like, it's like an evil place. Yeah, I thought it was brilliant. And it's exactly how you like you look at it and you're repelled. You don't want to go near that, and that's how she must feel walking up to her own house, which is like obviously dreadful.
SPEAKER_00Well, one thing that I think this film, film, this series beautifully captures is the colours that you see as a teenager. I don't know what it is about being a teenager, but the world, unfortunately, for us adults did look brighter. It's because you're experiencing everything for the first time. And so everything just feels so much more intense and so vibrant. And so seeing that pulled back in those moments where they are experiencing fear or anxiety is again extremely effective. And I I did there were so many moments where I watched the show and I thought that's exactly what I did when I was that age. It was used just the right amount. Yes, not too much, yes, not too much now, just a little, and it was nice to see because it was originally only really used for Nick and Charlie, and then it started to expand to the rest of the cast as they sort of understood a bit more about themselves. I mean, I guess that's what it represented when they were understanding or really intensely feeling something.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, loved that. Earlier on you said something about the casting being quite interesting, and you had some exciting little tidbits to share with me.
SPEAKER_00I did the actor that plays Charlie. Joe Locke was found in open casting. Now that is rare, baby. That doesn't happen hardly ever anymore. Right. And especially for a leading character. Yeah. However, Nick, who's played by Kit Connor, yes, is a very well-established actor. He's been around for quite some time. You're right, as a child star. As a child star, and it is extremely apparent for the first couple of for the first season that he is much better versed in the world of acting. However, I do sometimes think that holds his character development back. Whereas Joe's development of Charlie, you just see so much more of it because he's also learning as an actor.
SPEAKER_01Okay, interesting. Yeah, he's like the character is finding himself as he gets a bit older and has his experiences, but so is Joe. So is literally Joe Lodge. Yeah, okay, that's the nice um parallel to draw.
SPEAKER_00And a few of the other characters were also found through open casting, and I just think that's such an incredible thing. I think it gives people an opportunity, and it also allows you to watch a show without projecting your own expectations onto that actor from what they've done before.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So you're saying that the majority of the main cast were not acting before this, like at least in TV shows or anything. Exactly. Amazing, apart from Kit Connor.
SPEAKER_00Mainly Kit Connor, but there are a couple of other ancillary characters that have definitely been in the world of acting, Olivia Coleman. Oh yeah. She is known.
SPEAKER_01She is known. I think the people they cast is really good as well, because they're very diverse in how they look. If this had been made in the US, you know that it would have been very like cookie-cutter, beautiful cast members. The point is these characters are misfits. This is what the UK does so much better than the States.
SPEAKER_00And we're not saying these people are unattractive, we're just saying they look real.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they look like real people. I mean, actually, I think the actress who plays Elle, Yasmin Finney, is breathtakingly beautiful.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's just a couple of moments when I'm looking at her like the fudge off my screen. Yeah. With your perfect skin, glorious mane of hair.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And like model-like physique, she's so tall and slim.
SPEAKER_00Just completely clear complexion.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Age 16. And like on hormones.
SPEAKER_00Oh gosh, get out of my face. Not that beauty. It's not, it's not fair.
SPEAKER_01Out of all the characters, who did you resonate with the most?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I mean Charlie. Yeah?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Why is that?
SPEAKER_00Because I was bullied quite badly. I just understand the anxiety. I understand wanting everything to be perfect. And also just longing for people and not knowing and not knowing how to open up and be understood.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00Who did you resonate with? And why is it Nick? It wasn't Nick. Is it Tal?
SPEAKER_01No, I think it's Charlie as well. Oh! Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, tell me more.
SPEAKER_01I mean, at school, I really had not sort of found my groove. I was not a super awkward misfit, but I was definitely scrawny and geeky and pining after different boys to some extent. Wasn't out at school. But yeah, I was also had a lot going on like internally, hiding a lot of things. I did have a crush, a sporty guy who I think is a bit like Nick to be fair. But obviously that guy was straight. In my reality, that guy was straight and we didn't nothing ever happened. I'm more related to Charlie and how he was seen by the rest of the school. So not so much, oh, how the way he behaves, the way he looks, the way he acts is like me. It's more like the way he moves through the school and the way people treated him, I could relate to, and that felt quite familiar to me.
SPEAKER_00Interesting. And you were also in the band.
SPEAKER_01I was also in the band.
SPEAKER_00You were not playing the drums though. Playing the sex.
SPEAKER_01In terms of which characters I found more realistic. Okay. I actually think Imogen is very realistic.
SPEAKER_00No, that's why she was doing my friggin' boxing. Because actually, you know what? It was Imogen. Imogen I identify the most with. Because I can't shut up.
SPEAKER_01He says and then stop stalking.
SPEAKER_00And I'm just so awkward, but also extremely observant. So I will completely miss things because I'm so hell-bent on what I'm focused on, but I will notice everything else around it and come to people and say, I think you're gay. Or by actually, but you know.
SPEAKER_01I also think Harry was extremely realistic. Yes. About 60% of my secondary school was Harry.
SPEAKER_00You know when um people had like a different accent and you're like, that isn't your accent. That's not even an accent. That is an affected way of speaking that nobody else speaks like, but you're putting it on because you think other people expect, oh yeah, look, what's going on? Oh yeah. Sorry, I can't say that. No well, we'll be put out for TikTok, but go on, say more.
SPEAKER_01No, I'll just say, like being a ringleader to a bunch of sporty guys, taking it upon himself to make other people feel small. That was a lot of kids at my school.
SPEAKER_00And just being the world's biggest frigging gossip. Why'd you care?
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00Oh, you're going off, Nick Charlie. Charlie, you gonna have Nick, Nick, you gonna have Charlie? Why'd you care? Get a life. Get uh get one. Just one life. Well, actually, and also I've dealt with people like Ben before.
SPEAKER_01Have you?
SPEAKER_00And it's not necessarily even to do with sexuality, it was people being embarrassed of me. When you were dating them? When I was dating them.
SPEAKER_01At what stage in your life?
SPEAKER_00Um when I was dancing at that time.
SPEAKER_01Just in that nine-year period where I was dancing.
SPEAKER_00Just in that life of mine? It's hard because you do start to think that's what you deserve and what is and that's all you're allowed.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think the way it impacted Charlie was very believable and very sad. I haven't had an experience like that. Like dating someone who's like closeted and like pretend you don't exist. I mean, that's foul.
SPEAKER_00Tough stuff.
SPEAKER_01So we discussed a few of the characters, they have a very diverse range of characteristics in terms of sexuality, gender expression, race. Do you think the show's done a good job with everything there?
SPEAKER_00I don't know if it's my place necessarily to say if I think they definitely did a good job. I can say what I liked is I really liked Elle's story. I liked that her being trans wasn't a big friggin' deal.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it just was very slowly revealed. If you are watching it for the first time and maybe you're not an adult, you might ask yourself, wait, what do you mean she went to the boys' school before and she was bullied there? And you know, and we don't hear much about Elle before she transitioned. And I also think that's great. We don't need to know that because that isn't who she is. Yeah, it's who she was. That's a pretty good point. So for me, I loved seeing that representation. Obviously, there's some challenges there, and I don't think the world is as nice and as kind as a lot of the characters are, and very accepting. But I like to see that. So for me, I love that.
SPEAKER_01I had the exact same note, which I wrote down. Um, I loved Elle's character, I loved how she's portrayed, I love how she's treated. Yes. I do wonder what a sort of trans viewer would think about watching this. Would they be satisfied with that representation? Would they be like, okay, as a trans character, but they haven't shown any of the hardships? But maybe it's nice for them to have something to watch where it isn't all about their hardships. I think, as for me, watching it, and if there had been lots of like transphobic bullying in this, I would have really struggled with enjoying the show. It would be really, really absolutely dreadful to watch, especially in these current climbs. Yeah, I can forgive it for sure, but it's not really my place to forgive it.
SPEAKER_00I also found that I liked Tara and Darcy. I certainly liked them a lot more in season two, especially as they fleshed out Darcy a bit more. Yeah, quite one-dimensional in the first season. Very one-dimensional, and it was very much this is the conflicted lesbian, and this is the out and pride lesbian. And I did have an issue with the one-dimensionality of quite a few of the characters, but as you say, they developed. That's what's good about having these longer lasting TV shows that go on for a few seasons. You really do get to understand and grow with these characters.
SPEAKER_01So I wanted to talk about race a little bit because there are diverse races in this cast. However, I don't think the show does a brilliant job at the intersection between race and asexuality and like how these kids might be treated and how their families might treat them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, what it is to be a black lesbian versus what it is to be a white lesbian, and I think it's so hard to do. That's the thing, because the show and the the graphic novels themselves, although we are yet to read those, more on that another time, it's it doesn't allow you to really explore everything because you've put everything in and you're sort of saying it would be amazing if the world were like this, but you can't actually show everything. And I do wonder if they see themselves portrayed, are they seeing themselves represented?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think you nailed it. But for example, Tao and his mother, who's is Chinese, um, is wonderful, yes, um, absolutely supportive of him in every way, and of L. And of L, exactly. And of course that is possible, but is that likely? I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it's a really good point. Uh but maybe that is the I mean that certainly will be someone's truth. Yeah. So that's what's interesting to see. I mean, she was one of my favourite characters. She was so sweet. But again, reduced to just being like so happy and loving, and I would like to see a little bit more of you know what it's been like for her to raise Tal, but we can't we can't go into that. It's it is Nick in Charlie's story, I suppose.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, yeah. Well, speaking of Tal's mum, we could talk about a family across all the characters.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so quick one for you. I mean, you discovered it as you were laying out our beautiful accoutrement, our set dressing. But in the in the series, in the graphic novel series, Charlie has a younger brother, and we do not see them in the show. Yeah, but we do often see his elder sister. His elder sister Tori is the protagonist of Alice's first novel. Oh, I didn't know that. Yes, and so Nick and Charlie are alluded to at the beginning of that novel, and that's what sort of sets up this whole universe. Oh, interesting. Is it popular, that series, that book, or whatever? I'm I'm not entirely certain. We will do more research for the next time. We just did not want to do any spoilers, but I the reason why is I looked up and I was like, why is Tori always drinking juice? Yeah. And I actually never got to find out because what is this bit? And uh and I also wanted to understand why she was so standoffish, but again, I I just thought I would ruin it for myself. But she is an interesting character and she stands in very stark contrast to the elder brother of Nick.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I love when they interact at the family dinner. Essentially, Nick's older brother is a bit of a a dick. I mean, I literally wrote like pre in my notes.
SPEAKER_00I was aghast.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it makes you wonder because I don't know what the dynamic is between them, they're both sporty. I mean, Nick is a bit of a wonder kid, like it could be it is annoying having a younger brother who is kind of perfect. Just ask my brother.
SPEAKER_00Your elder brothers, yeah. My two elder brothers. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, so that could be where it comes from. I don't know, but he's a bit of an antagonist, and that hit home for me. It's like that sort of dread of telling your brothers, older brothers about your boyfriend or whatever it is. Actually, David was much worse than I ever had to deal with.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it sounds like your brothers were if not supportive, they were massive.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, reasonably fine with it. Um yeah, I love when they interact when David's kind of riling up Nick at the family dinner in front of their father, who's not an absent father, but he's like hardly there. And I just love if she like grabs his arm and is like, don't you dare!
SPEAKER_00Yeah, fabulous, fabulous. And again, we have a wonderfully accepting mother in Sarah.
SPEAKER_01Yes. But but okay, well, my issue with Sarah is that she's So there's an issue. There is, yeah. I don't know. I think as a character she's quite one note, she doesn't really say anything. She's like quite passive and but like passively supportive.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And she again is there just to really advance the plot. Oh, next your special friend. I knew that was gonna trigger you.
SPEAKER_01Because when I took my boyfriend home to meet my mother just a few weeks ago, I introduced him to her. We had a lovely dinner, and he thanked her afterwards. And she said, Don't be silly, it's just wonderful to meet Charlie's current special friend. As I said, you're a whore.
SPEAKER_00Just joking.
SPEAKER_01And I was mortified. So maybe my mum watched this show. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, that's so funny. What should I call my son's same-sex partner? Special friend. Sometimes I think some characters just exist to show off certain actors' range as well, and it just is Olivia Coleman being the sunniest, wonderfulest mother.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then also, one thing I find very interesting, Charlie's parents are extremely flat.
SPEAKER_01I was surprised by that as well. I thought the main character's parents would have a bit more to play.
SPEAKER_00We don't meet them until like episode four or five.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Which is really telling of like their relationship. His mum is very severe, and she shows her love for her son by like nagging him, which again didn't make sense to me because he's a high-achieving kid as well. He has good grades until he doesn't. Until he doesn't. But she's so hard on him, and it's like, babe. He's already had a really hard time. Yeah, and of course, I'm sure she's very concerned by that, but why would you turn it on him? Surely you'd be like more supportive. I don't know. She just showed no kindness to him.
SPEAKER_00Well, one thing I found interesting was the immediately stereotyping of Nick. She was like a sporty boy. Oh no, why would you do that? Yeah, weird. And then the father, again, he seems to be the more supportive one, actually, of the two parents, or the the more understanding one, if anything. I don't know. Let's see what happens in season three with these parents. It almost felt like Tori was the mother of Nick.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, she's the only one in that family who of Joe!
SPEAKER_00No, of Charlie! Why, guys, I'm so sorry. There's so many names are just so white.
SPEAKER_01Although he's obviously he's part Spanish, you know. Good figure. But yeah, you're right. His sister Tori is the only member of the family who showed him any support, emotional support, which is wild. And again, well, a bit relatable in the sense that you don't not everyone's family is a source of support. That's why, you know, seeing Taryl's mother or Nick's mother being very sweet and supportive, I was like, it's not very relatable, is it?
SPEAKER_00But the thing is, it is, that was my mother. Yeah. My mother's very sweet and very supportive, and sometimes too supportive. And I do have to remind her that like I'm not all that in a slice of cheese. I know you well, and she'll love it. Oh, that's the thing, she loves it when people like slag me off a little bit because she's like, Oh, that's funny. But then she's like, But he's still better than you, and I'm like, I'm not, mum, I'm actually not, I'm not better than anyone. So it is nice to have that, but sometimes I just I do want to just be like, Come on, see me for who I am, not for who I will be. See me outside. How about that? Okay, let's whiz through just a couple of the other uh relationships. We have Charlie, he's got his three best friends from childhood, Tao, Isaac, and L. And it's an interesting quartet because actually Isaac has no one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's interesting because you said they introduced him for the show, and then they were like, we're gonna make him not a loner per se, but he's just like very introverted. Someone that does not want to talk.
SPEAKER_00And I think that those people exist, but absolutely they do. They have some depth. I mean, he showed a little bit. We get some in season two, that's true.
SPEAKER_01He kind of has a bit of an outburst. Power to him, and I really liked that. No, me too. Pushing his boundaries back because I think he just acquiesces all the time. He's just like happy to be there, they're happy to have him there, there's no conflict. He just showed, like, actually, I do have, you know, thoughts and feelings and stuff.
SPEAKER_00I am autonomous.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's more to me than like I'm not just gonna do what you guys want.
SPEAKER_00And also stop presuming. Yeah. You are continuing you you're just making me tell you things that aren't actually happening, and I have to say to you, that's not how it is, that's not the way it is, and you are all projecting something onto me. I just am not interested in representing. Yeah, I thought it would be interesting. And then we have Tao, who honestly did my box in for the majority of season one. I knew he would.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I enjoyed the fact that he was a conflicted character and difficult to handle.
SPEAKER_00Well, do you know who he reminded me a lot of? Who?
SPEAKER_01Me. Really? At that age or like now?
SPEAKER_00Well, in some ways, at that age, he does have extremely high standards and he does continually reduce things down to being extremely black and white.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And he's very hard on people. I have softened quite considerably over the years. It's still something I'm prone to doing though. I really wasn't as relentless as he was. Like it wasn't constant.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It wasn't as constant as that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, true. In season one, he's like pretty abrasive to his like best friends. Like he has these intrusive thoughts about like I'm gonna say this mean thing. You see other characters have similar thoughts and then not say them, not text them. Whereas he just goes for it. Constantly. And gets himself into these fights with his friends, and then they have to apologize, and there's there's conflicts that he creates.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, essentially he apologizes for doing a crappy thing, but they're forced to apologize for their response to his crappy thing. Charlie has a tendency to think that he is the cause of everyone's problems. Well, no wonder, Tao, when you tell him he's the cause of all of your problems. So that I find tough stuff.
SPEAKER_01But he has development, he does mellow outs, he realizes that well, he kind of at one stage tries to be someone different because he wants to be more palatable to someone he likes or to Elle, and then realizes actually she likes him for who he is. And that was interesting to see because he is abrasive, and at times you're like, oh my god, like shut up. But then Elle is looking at him like, Oh, I love when you're bitching about movies and that you don't like, yeah. And that is actually quite fun. It's someone's being really honest about what they like and not caring about the consequences of that. Yeah. And that's that's how he is in all respects. He's fiercely protective of his friends. Yeah, consequences be damned. I loved his verbal comebacks with Harry. Yeah, I thought that was amazing actually. If I had that power, like I don't have that power. If someone insults me, I'm like, I can't have I can't say anything back.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's what's so interesting because I used to be like that with people at school. Like, you know, one of my favourite retorts when someone would come up to me and they'd say, Are you gay? or Are you dating this person? I'd say, Why are you asking me out for dinner? And they'd be like, Uh uh uh uh no, no, I'm not, no, I'm not. And I'm like, Well, why are you interested? What are you asking for? Because well, it is like, Well, why do you care? Love it, stop going around looking for an issue. That's my job.
SPEAKER_01No, your job's creating the issues. Oh okay. Or is it someone asked me if I was gay?
SPEAKER_00I was like, No, uh, it's not being me. I'm gonna go tell my mum. Tell my mummy. But do you know what I love? Can I just very quickly interject? I do love an extremely funny, wetty remark from a straight person. I asked your boyfriend if he's gay, and he hit me with his handbag and said, No. Stuff like that makes me chuckle.
SPEAKER_01We can all enjoy that. Bullying is a big theme in this show, a lot more than I expected. It basically is the cause of most of like Charlie's mental health issues, for example.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the way in which you can be bullied in different ways by different people as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I thought the way that it was portrayed in season one, like the way Harry uh mocked Charlie a lot, being like, What's it like to be gay? and that kind of stuff. It's that plausible deniability.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I can't stand a plausible deniability. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That was very not triggering, but just like, that's exactly the kind of thing that I would hear at school. Like, why is your voice so gay? It's not directly, it's not like saying gay's a bad, but it's just like mocking you for something that you can't help.
SPEAKER_00And how are you supposed to answer that question?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's no way you can say it without incriminating yourself or embarrassing yourself. It's just as Nick points out to Harry, why are you doing this just to humiliate people? Like, where do you get off on this?
SPEAKER_00How does it bring you satisfaction? Because I just don't understand.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the bullying, it has a consequence for Charlie. It affects his mental health, and it's a theme throughout season two, and I'm sure it's gonna reach ahead in season three, if not beyond. It manifested in self-harming in the season before the show really starts, but he had he confesses that to Nick in a tender moment at the end of season two, and an eating disorder. Probably you as well. You you saw it coming.
SPEAKER_00I do specifically remember there was a moment and I was like, I see an ED on the horizon. Then when I saw him in his special classroom not eating his lunch at lunchtime, I thought, hold the friggin' phone. You're supposed to be in there eating your lunch, and you're sitting on that tree that's beautifully drawn on the ground, and you were not eating your lunch.
SPEAKER_01That's true, actually. Yeah, he gets his lunchbox out, he looks in it, he looks at the sandwich, which does look pretty unappetizing to be fair, and then at the next shot he doesn't have it.
SPEAKER_00The explanation that Charlie provides is good in season two. I think it does make a lot of sense that when you can control so little in your life, you turn to the one thing that you can control, and often that is what you eat and when you eat it. And it's just it's hard because that that sort of doesn't ever really leave you.
SPEAKER_01And it's heartbreaking the way Nick responds to it, like his you know, eyes shining with tears. By this point, they're like in love. They haven't said it yet. Um and Nick cares for him so deeply. And to have someone you love admitting, like, oh, I don't really like myself for these reasons, or because of my life, I don't like these certain things, so I I harm myself either directly or indirectly is heartbreaking to hear because you're like, Oh, I if only you could see yourself the way I see you, and I want to protect you, but I can't protect you from yourself. It's really difficult, and it's really heavy for like a teenage relationship.
SPEAKER_00It's heavy at any age, but when you're that age, you're just not equipped with how to to help, because often what you think might help just doesn't.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, very sad. So we'll have to watch out for what happens in season three with that. But hopefully he'll be okay.
SPEAKER_00Well, we do hope, but also what is wrapped up in all of that is of course we have the eating disorder and the desire to control and to have some semblance of order in your life, but also just the anxiety in general, the way that it encroaches on everything that he does. He robs himself of joy at certain moments because he just can't quite believe it's happening. Yeah, and unfortunately, that's not really a great position to put your partner in if you can't believe it's happening and you're relying on them to validate that it is and that you deserve this. It's not good for either of them.
SPEAKER_01Definitely, because Nick's not doing anything wrong, he's actually being a great boyfriend on all counts. But yet Charlie kind of demands more. He doesn't directly demand it, but because he's not content, and it's like he'll say when he was talking to Nick, he was like, What are you talking about? Like everything is going really well for me. I'm dating this beautiful man, everything's perfect. And Nick's response is then why are you hurting yourself? Why are you starving yourself? Because clearly you're not happy, but you're saying you're happy. So, like, how on earth do you where do you go from there?
SPEAKER_00And also It's not just because you are with someone and you love them, that does not mean everything is perfect. You are failing at your schoolwork, your friendships are actually crumbling in some ways around you. And if not your friendships with people, their lives aren't exactly great either. And you have to be there for them. It's not just about the person you love, it's about your community.
SPEAKER_01The moment where Charlie's doing his coursework on the day of it being due, I was like, that gave me anxiety. I never did that.
SPEAKER_00I did definitely do that from time to time. And you've lied multiple times to your teacher and parents about it. That's crazy. But not because of boys. Well, maybe because of boys speaking to them on MSN. Should have just handed those in instead. But I think what's tricky is that by Charlie just existing as who he is and what has been done to him, that does inform what is causing Nick some ire because he has to reckon with the fact that he has someone in a relationship that he is falling in love with that has been treated so poorly by someone that was his bully but was also his boyfriend. Yeah. And so all of that wrapped up with not coming out and not being true to yourself and not being true to other people, it's just really heavy for both of them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it is, yeah. Which is why we know this TV show isn't real.
SPEAKER_00Well, the the thing is, I thought some of this was the most accurately portrayed. Yeah. The only thing I thought wasn't accurately portrayed was I I would perhaps have been a little bit more impatient than Charlie was about Nick taking his time to come out. Oh, I see. Okay, interesting. And at that age, I would have unfairly been impatient to be able to, you know, declare my love to the world.
SPEAKER_01I thought Charlie was going to say something, going to allude to it in some maybe backhanded or passive aggressive way, but he never did. But then his joy at when Nick finally did it, and Nick kind of did it in a similar way to like how I act when you want me to do something, I would like to give you no clue. I'll just be like, Okay, now I'm gonna do it. And it could be quite annoying, I believe. Yeah, it was quite annoying. But one time when Charlie is extremely direct with someone is when he gives Ben like what for. He has a chance to tell him what what, like, you really hurt me and you don't get to have my forgiveness. That moment, while it was great, I think was one of the most fantastical moments of the entire show. And it happens quite a lot. These kids who are going through these difficult instances, they stand up to their bully or father or whoever it is, brother.
SPEAKER_00Very eloquently.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they don't miss their words, they don't stutter, they don't forget what they want to say, they don't cry, they just like very level-headed, be like, This is what you've done, it's not right, this is why you can't do it. And I'm like, that wouldn't happen. I'm I I can't be that eloquent even now with my years of practice. And then the aggressor, whoever it is, is always like dumbfounded by the truth bomb dropped on them. They never have any rebuttal, they're just like, uh, uh, uh. And I'm like, that again wouldn't happen because I swear if I were to stand up to someone like a bully like that, at that age, and I was like a weedy 15-year-old, they would have just decked me.
SPEAKER_00We've had discussions, and it will be on the Patreon, about people in my life that have raised their voice at me in professional settings, and I haven't known what to say. And I am usually very quick on my fate. I love a pun, I love a joke, but when I'm being deliberately misinterpreted, that's when I find it difficult to find my words. And of course, what is happening with Charlie and Ben is Charlie is, you know, listening to what it is that Ben's saying. Ben is apologizing, and it does seem true. Sincere, it does seem heartfelt, but Charlie does have an extremely good point. And of course, he has Nick like behind him being a total bodyguard. I actually read something interesting that again I shouldn't have maybe seen, but Alice and Sebastian, the actor that plays Ben, both agreed to extend that arc, and that is that we do not see any more of Ben in the future. This is uh resolved, and they did not want him to have a redemption. And I do think it is important sometimes that we see that even if someone is contrite, even if they are sincerely and and they are desperately apologizing and want to make you feel better, often the apology may be for themselves. Oh, absolutely, and we've had this conversation many times because there's a fly I'm gonna kill. No, because there are people in my life that I have had crosswords with and are no longer in my life, and I want to make amends with them. And who am I doing that for? Yeah. Who would I be doing it for? Yeah, because they've moved on. Well, if they haven't, I hope they do. That's the thing. I hope I'm not a thorn in their side in their head. I'm sorry that I acted poorly, and I'm sorry that you acted poorly too. But yeah, it is so rare in our life that we get to truly stand up to a bully or someone that wronged us and say exactly what it is that we need to say. So whilst I loved the closing of that arc, how it was executed was also very beautiful to see, but did not feel very true to life. 100% agree. Actually, quickly, can we talk about the teachers? I want Mr. Farrick to Farrick me. I bet you do. I was like, oh yeah, scream shut up at me. That's what I like.
SPEAKER_01I actually much prefer Mr. Ajay. A Jay. I love his sort of gentle way, and he's so supportive to Charlie, and like in a very respectful professional way, he's one of the biggest supporters of Charlie. Like where his parents failed, yeah, I think Mr. Ajay stepped in a bit.
SPEAKER_00It's very like tough love. It's like, you're really gonna sit in here, alright.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you can't run away from your problems.
SPEAKER_00But but can I just say Mr. O'Jeigi and Mr. Faruk, that was a bad idea.
SPEAKER_01Yeah? As in two colleagues hooking up.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes, yeah. No, I was I was sitting there thinking, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Off of school grounds. Well, it is off of school grounds, but off of school sanctioned activities. None of that. I know, I quite liked it. Oh my gosh, invite him to chaperone the problem.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, I love missing. Coach sing.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh, okay, so okay, right.
SPEAKER_01You got thoughts.
SPEAKER_00I do have thoughts. Are you ready for us to talk about our hottest takes on the show? I'll go on, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I really think for a minute. But you found it. I found it.
SPEAKER_00It's on the tip of your tongue. I've found it. Sizzling. There's too much LGBTQ representation. I'm sorry, what are the odds of like everything? Everyone is getting angle way to be represented. And not only that, you also have a lesbian sports teacher and a gay homeroom teacher and a gay science teacher. And not only that, the gay, the gay, gay teachers, the gay double gay, gay mom, the gay men also take you to Paris and be gay in Paris. They'd be being gay in Paris. I could not believe my eyes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's definitely a bit full on.
SPEAKER_00Are you kidding?
SPEAKER_01It was like every person that the camera landed on just got sprinkled a bit of LGBT dust on them.
SPEAKER_00Mate, Emogen's becoming bi. I mean, look, I love it. If you like it, I love it. I want everyone to be bi. Actually, that would be my ideal world. Everyone being bi, I'd love it. Because we don't have babies and we don't have fun. However, it just it really can't be true. It can't be true. There is unless there's something in the water.
SPEAKER_01I had heard this take as well, like online. People some people weren't happy with every single character being something in the in the spectrum.
SPEAKER_00It's like me and my wife were playing rugby at university. Alright, Miss Sang. Missy Sang, actually.
SPEAKER_01But actually, for me it makes sense because the whole cast of the show, they exist in the straight world. That's kind of the grey backdrop to all these stories. And they're not saying, oh, the whole school's gay. It's just that we are seeing only the storylines of the gay characters, the queer characters, the trans characters. That's all we're seeing. Okay. And it's believable there would be eight or nine queer people in a school of a thousand. It's like that one little girl says at one point, she's like, Higgs school for girls has 1,200 girls in it. So, you know, so that's where there's a lot of lesbians. And then her friend's like, Are you a lesbian?
SPEAKER_00No, her friend says, You could be a lesbian, which I thought was but that's that is true. She could be. She probably is. She had a she had a line. Thank you's crap. Yeah, she's gonna go in season three, but like this tiny little girl. It's like, it's track, it's her. Okay, your hottest take, go.
SPEAKER_01Okay, um, my hottest take, and I feel like I have to fight the allegations that I'm not like dead inside. Oh. But well, where are you going with this? Just all like the super super cutesy scenes aren't my favourite. Like what? The adoring eyes and the long, long kisses. I'm like, I don't need all of that. I just I'm a bit tired of it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, all of the upside down smiling because they they're trying to hold it in. No, they're like, and I'm like, oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's just a little bit sickly sweet for me sometimes. And that's kind of weird because I'm actually in real life relatively romantic. When the scene happens in the show, I'm like, okay, next, like, give me some story. I'm not bothered by cuddling and smooching or the montage. I don't need that. Well, I also just don't like it because I just don't like watching children do that. Well, exactly, yeah. Well, speaking of that, yeah, let's do who do you think this show is made for?
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. Well, not me.
SPEAKER_01Right. I agree.
SPEAKER_00It's all made for you. Yeah, no, who do to answer your question properly, I think it really is made for the youth of today.
SPEAKER_01Specifically, like the questioning youth.
SPEAKER_00I no, I think it should be cursory viewing for all youth. Because I think that you should see a viewpoint that isn't your own. You need to be humanizing each other, you need to be humanizing people. Yeah, okay, I agree with that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because I can see if you're a straight kid watching it, you can be like, oh, those comments that I think are innocuous and not harmful. I'm just asking like what's it like to be gay to the one gay kid in the whole school? Because I'm genuinely kind of curious about it, because I don't know anyone else who is, how it can have an effect, how it can make someone feel small and humiliated. And they might not realise. I mean they're kids, right?
SPEAKER_00So who do you think it's made for then?
SPEAKER_01Is it made for you? Um I have enjoyed it. I think I prefer a bit more of an adult take on it. There are aspects of it that are relatable, but not completely. Is it for me not 100%?
SPEAKER_00No, I would definitely prefer to watch Heated Rivalry, but what I would prefer is something in between Heated Rivalry and this.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Something just a bit truer.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like it's got a bit of romance, but it's not so like hardcore with the kind of shame and hiding and stuff.
SPEAKER_00Or or being like incredibly successful and owning a cottage that is a feat of architectural beauty.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, being like professional athletes. I can't relate to that at all. Uh yeah, I'm with you. Just kind of like normal people, but having a bit of a fantastical love story would be cute.
SPEAKER_00You're not desperate to see season three and the film. I'm not desperate either, but I am excited and intrigued. I'm entitled. Sounds like you've got some kind of gastro issue with that. Maybe. No, but I can't wait to see. I think it will be interesting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it'll certainly be interesting. I'm I'm like, we're halfway in, you know. In for a penny, in for a pound. Let's find out how it ends. Although I think there's more books than there are in the whole TV and movie world.
SPEAKER_00Well, her universe is pretty large.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean that's cute. Probably not gonna read them, to be honest.
SPEAKER_00Uh I just might look into some of the differences between what is being shown and what is being told in the graphic novels. Yeah. Because I do find that interesting. I d you know, I really find the addition or the changing of characters very, very intriguing. Imogen actually adds a lot to the series, but having you know Charlie's little brother probably wouldn't have because what's he gonna do? Hold the baby, you know, it's it's interesting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_00Okay, well, let's not be Imogen's dead dog. Yeah, let's bring this to a close. No, we're joking, we love dogs. It's just uh like if you're here for us and you're enjoying us, you're gonna laugh at that joke. And if you you're if you don't enjoy us, you wouldn't have ever made it that far.
SPEAKER_01So no, it's been it has been fun to watch. I'm glad to like be exploring this world because it is very icedy, and like especially with the movie coming out next month. When we told some of our friends that we were watching this, they got very excited. I mean, my boyfriend, example, he loves Heartstopper. So shout out to you.
SPEAKER_00One of my very good friends, it's Reese. I know you're out there. Reese! Reese, we've got to. No, Reese. I uh I'm sorry, I ignored you during the pandemic when you said you gotta watch the show. Well I'm I'm sorry, maybe not actually, because it's been good fodder. It's been nice to have this conversation, sort of revealing things to each other. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yep. So we will be watching season three and the film when it debuts on Netflix. And we'll be releasing an episode pretty swiftly after. Yeah, as fast as I can edit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So look out for that.
SPEAKER_00So I hope you enjoyed it. Yeah, fingers crossed. We did, just to stay unequivocally.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, before anyone sends us a 20-minute voice note telling us we sound like we hated it, but we didn't.
SPEAKER_00I liked Heartstopper.
SPEAKER_01I liked Heartstopper.
SPEAKER_00I liked it a lot.
SPEAKER_02Just a lot.
SPEAKER_00Quite some.
SPEAKER_01But until then, have a good one.
SPEAKER_00Just a good one. By actually.
