Animation Career Community

ACC Podcast S001E006 - Festival Talk

• Katherine • Season 1 • Episode 6

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On this episode John and Kathy chat all things Festivals.  We discuss what it's like to be someone selling a project, navigating industry events to the creative side of showing films and making new connections.  

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to the Animation Career Community Podcast, where we answer your questions on how to grow, maintain, and transform your animation career at every stage. I'm your host, John.

SPEAKER_02

I'm your co-host, Kathy.

SPEAKER_00

Today, Kathy and I will be talking about animation festivals and events. Get ready, it's going to be a good one.

SPEAKER_02

Awesome. Well, I'm pretty excited about this topic, John. I know that you have a stronger experience in that area than I do. I've worked, I'm sorry, I've been to a few festivals as a student, as a filmmaker, but I think where my area of understanding of festival engagement goes sort of falls off is especially around the industry side of it, like how people utilize it on an industry level. I wonder what your thoughts are on that area.

SPEAKER_00

Um, I think uh yeah, I think what am I trying to say? Okay. Um, you know, everyone's gonna have a different experience at these events, whether they're a festival or maybe even a conference. Um, and depending on your background in the industry, again, that's going to determine uh which of these events you go to and what you're gonna, you know, put into it and what you're gonna get out of them as well. I think for the most part, probably a lot of our uh our audience will be more from the artistic side. So events like um the Ottawa Animation Festival that's coming up at the end of September, and TAFI, which will be happening in April of next year, 2026, uh, will probably be on everybody's radars because there will be obviously the festival portion, which will have short films, long films, you know, different events that are catered more towards the artist. Um, for me specifically, um, I do a bit of both. So I kind of straddle the line. I'm kind of on the fence. So I generally uh will attend a lot of the conferences more on the producer business side because I do like to stay in touch and keep informed and learn more about what is happening on the business end of our industry. So uh for anyone that doesn't really know the Ottawa International Animation Festival, um, there are kind of two parts to it. Earlier in the week, the first three-ish days, kind of two and a half days, there's something called TAC, which is the animation conference. And that tends to be more the business side of things. Um, this year, uh, I think a lot of programming is kind of um designed to kind of tackle what is happening in the industry with uh talks from different producers, different broadcasters, and different uh businesses about what they're doing in terms of managing, surviving, keeping their heads above water during this time in the industry. Um, so that's kind of the first part of OIAF. And then during that period, there are also events catered towards the festival side. Again, that's more for the artists. So you'll have screenings of films and events. You have the annual picnic lunch on the Friday, um, and then the Friday night party, and then there are like uh weekend events because it usually spans from about the Wednesday, so middle of the week, into the Sunday. And obviously, Sundays, um, the programming isn't quite as dense because most people are probably already on their way home wherever they've traveled from. But uh, but it's it's a very uh it's probably one of the biggest events I can think of in North America. It's been going since I believe 1976. Oh, wow so pretty much about 50 years now, almost 50 years, 49, I guess. Give it or take it.

SPEAKER_02

Is it is it still considered like the industry's biggest festival? Like uh, or is that purely a Canadian thing? Are there bigger festivals elsewhere?

SPEAKER_00

I think, yeah, there are a few big ones elsewhere now. I think for North America, it's certainly one of the biggest ones. Um, I can't speak to many of the American ones because I've not really experienced those as much outside of again something like Kids Screen. Um, but I mean, all over the world there are tons of other festivals now. And I think the world, because Canada has always been um uh a pioneer in a sense of animation around the world and especially on the uh TV side and the preschool side, I think uh lately over the past number of years, other countries and other industries and regions have actually kind of caught up in a sense. Okay, I would say, like right now, internationally, one big one that everybody talks about and people would love to go to is the one in Annecy, uh, which is coming up in June. It's usually early June every year. And again, that one I've not been to myself. I keep trying to make plans to go and something happens and I can never quite make it out.

SPEAKER_02

But um, that one and are these festivals like uh I know a lot of people go to them because their work place is pushing them to go. Um, but like places like Annecy, can you just go on your own? Do you need like are your is your job saying you should be be going to those festivals, or is this something you make priority for yourself?

SPEAKER_00

I think this is more like something like Annecy and even the Ottawa International Animation Festival, these are things you should probably make a point to go to yourself. Like um your company will only you know kind of push you or send you there because um, again, the business side requires it. Uh, I think for me, having my own company, um, I push myself as a representative. Obviously, you need to be visible to your peers on that end of the business. Um, so for me, as far as Ottawa and again, the TAC portion, so the animation conference portion, that's where I make new connections. I can network, uh, re-re-connect with other, you know, professionals, other producers, other, you know, business owners in our industry. And kind of again, we all share ideas. Um, and oftentimes those ideas are you know related to where the industry is going at that time. Um, and I think again, for artists, um, the festival circuit is you know really good to take apart of an experience. If you've not been to any of these, definitely try to get out to one of them because you'll meet other animators, other animation artists, other creators, and you'll get a sense of who's doing what and what the industry is a little bit about from other countries as well. Because the other thing with Ottawa, as its name implies, is that it's an international festival. So you do get short films and even long-form films from people from around the world and getting to meet those creators and see how they tell stories in a different way, right? Culturally, I think that can be really beneficial to everybody.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I I was gonna ask, uh, what is like your process of going to a film festival look like? Because when I think of when I've been to a festival, I bought tickets to events or I've you know gone to screenings and sometimes I'm lucky enough to run into people I know. But I'm wondering, are you scheduling meetings with people ahead of time? How are you doing that? Are you reaching out uh ahead of time?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's a bit of everything. Um, with the Ottawa festival, I find I'm generally reaching out a little bit. Um, some of it is casual too, like these people I may have known for a long time. So we always try to make time for each other. And it may not be like a hard meeting at, you know, five o'clock on a Tuesday evening kind of thing. We might just say, hey, let's get together for dinner on a particular night, and we just try to organize it. Um, with some producers or broadcasters that I'm looking to meet with, um, that's a little bit more of the, you know, hitting the pavement, reach out to them, ask them if they've got time available. Um, it obviously some of that comes from research. You know, I think the big thing for a lot of people is if you're looking for meetings with them, you know, I don't, I shouldn't say important people, but with important people that you find um you really want to have a meeting with, if they're a producer at a studio or if they're a broadcaster, you want to pitch an idea, anything like that. You really do have to do your research, like find out who's going to be there, who it is that you want to meet with, whether or not if you're pitching something, um, that it's kind of in your your ballpark, right? If you have a pitch project, you want to make sure you're pitching to the right studio or the right broadcasters for that. You don't want to just kind of throw something at them and they're like, well, this is kind of cute, but that's not what we do at all.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So let's think if we were coming at this from the perspective of someone who'd never been to a festival before, it's just an artist getting started. Yeah. Uh what would you recommend in terms of connecting with people? Because I think it's maybe if you have a project you want to pitch, that's you sort of get it. You're like, okay, I got to find the people who might be interested in this. I have to tailor it towards people specifically. That's sort of uh easier to gauge where you want to head. But say you're just an artist and you're like, okay, I want to make some contacts, I want to see what things are like. Uh, how would you approach that?

SPEAKER_00

I think there are a few different ways. Again, um, you know, you can always on some social media platform, even LinkedIn, maybe a good platform to use. Um, you know, I'm thinking back to our first guest, Jamie, um, who's like our LinkedIn expert. Um, but you can use a platform like that and just reach out and say, hey, you know, everyone, I'm going to be attending Ottawa, the Ottawa International Animation Festival. Sorry, I keep saying the entire name, OIAF at the end of September. I would love to meet you. Uh, please feel free to reach out to me and maybe we can grab a coffee and have a quick chat. Um, you know, it can be as simple as that. Um, I do that sometimes. I also will just, again, I'll reach out to a few people, maybe via email if if I haven't seen them in a long, long time and say, hey, you know, uh, will you be attending? And if you are, let's just get together for a quick chat.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and do you and do you feel feel like people are pretty open to that? Uh, even if you don't know them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. Generally, I mean, there are there have been a few occasions where I've not heard back. Um, because cold calling is something that, you know, obviously not everybody takes the same way, but I've actually had people reach out to me as well. Like, you know, and it does make me feel good when complete strangers reach out to me because I feel like I'm a nobody, right? Um, but sometimes you get someone reaching out to you and say, hey, you know, I I noticed you worked on this and I would just love to meet you. Right. And I've had that happen from like different studios, even Canadian and a few international ones that have reached out and said, Oh, we would just love to meet with you and have a quick chat with you. And I think that's that's always amazing. And I think, you know, obviously, you know, try not to take anything personally if you don't hear back from some company or a studio or even a broadcaster, you know, try not to take that personally because chances are if they are going to be there, um, and I can think of Kid Screen as a good example. Um, because Kid Screen is such a big event for the producers, the broadcasters in the studios. Um, you know, their time will be super limited and they're going to be getting requests from so many different angles that, you know, unfortunately for, you know, even someone like me, you know, I'm not really at the top of their lists. You know, even if I have a project I want to pitch to them, I still have to go through other channels like, you know, the fast track pitching or uh, you know, pitch this in in Ottawa. We'll still probably have to go through a process like that. But I always say it doesn't hurt to try. You don't know who you're gonna get to meet, and even while you're there, you end up bumping into someone you know or someone you know who's also with someone you hope to meet, and so those opportunities tend to arise just out of luck as well.

SPEAKER_02

So yeah, and and what are what are your coffee chats like? Or like what do you recommend people do in that that situation? Because I personally at some of these festivals have had some encounters where people are just trying to see, I can tell they just want me to find a job for them, right? And I think everybody sort of that's in the back of everyone's mind, probably. Yeah, uh, but but what's a better way to have a coffee chat like that?

SPEAKER_00

Uh I think I think if it's someone you've never met before, then it's just to get to know you, right? I I try to keep it very um, you know, informal, conversational, you know. Um, you know, it's good to get to know people, it's good to let them know who you are as well, what you do. Because again, down the road, you don't know what's gonna happen. That person may end up on a project and remembers your conversation with them and says, Oh, wait, I do know someone that can do something like that. And that has also happened to me. I met someone a while back at one of the conferences in the States, and uh, that was Kid Screen, and they remembered me, you know, it was a full year later, I think it was, and they remembered me and said, Oh, maybe John can, you know, help us out with this. And sure enough, it led to a couple of small projects on the side, you know, nothing major, but it was just amazing that we could kind of keep each other's in each other's thoughts, essentially, right? Yeah, and we could help each other out that way. So I think as far as my technique, if I can call it that again, it's just keep it a very casual conversation, get to know that person, get to understand where they're coming from. And if it is that sense that, yeah, they are looking for work, but and you know, realistically that is going to be the case, you know, this time around, and has been the case for a couple of years now. Um, I think it's okay. There's there's no shame in that, letting people know you're available for work, uh, letting them know that these are your skill sets. And I think if that's the case, I always, you know, try to ask them, well, can you show me something? Show me some of the work you've done, even during that 15-minute coffee meetup, because then I get to know them and their work better. Um, and it's not, you know, you know, I want people to understand that, you know, when you're doing it that way, you know, try not to feel embarrassed or ashamed because everyone's in the same boat right now. You know, people are looking for work, and that's the reality of our business, even when times were better. You know, there's always going to be people looking for work because maybe they're brand new to the industry. And so for me, you know, there's no judgment, right? Maybe if you drink a certain type of coffee, because I'm not a coffee drinker, but no, it's it's just one of those things. It's like it's always good to meet more people, it's always good to introduce people to the industry. And in a sense, I think sometimes maybe for people like us who have had a lot more experience, whether it's, you know, five years, seven years, ten years, and in my case, you know, almost 30 now, I guess. Um for me, I see it also as a chance to help possibly provide a little bit of mentorship. If there's some information, if there's something in my experience I can provide as advice, then that's what I'm there for. And that's what we should all be, you know, doing for every everybody and for each other, giving people advice and trying to help each other to build again, what we're doing with ACC here, which is building a stronger community.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think something uh that stuck out to me about what you said was uh about making a connection so that you're remembered. And where that might takes my mind is to not just a passion for animation, not just a passion for our jobs, but a passion for life. I think people who have interests uh and can relate about stuff outside of work too, can forge uh connections as well. Um, and it come it goes back to a lot of what we've talked about in previous podcasts, is like having a life outside of work as well elevates everything you do in the industry, not just your art, but your connection with other people. It's easier to connect with people when you're like you have life experiences to share too. Uh and uh and I think this I understand that festivals are a place of business, but I think a lot of people are there to have a good time as well. So remembering that also seems important.

SPEAKER_00

For sure, yeah. Like, and I think that's what I was kind of alluding to at the beginning. You know, that oftentimes, you know, some of these events have a conference portion, and that's where businesses uh, you know, kind of I I shouldn't say dealt. I mean, business is dealt with. Um, you know, deals aren't necessarily made at these things. And again, for anyone that, you know, doesn't know the business too well, or if you're new to it, or if you're new to the the festival and conference circuit, you know, yes, you can have great meetings. Producers can meet with other producers at these conferences and they can talk business, but oftentimes deals are not signed there. Yeah. Um, it's pretty rare for a deal to be signed there unless you bring something really amazing that blows everyone's eyeballs out of their skulls and everyone's clamoring for that, you know.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, but you're that's the exception, not the rule.

SPEAKER_00

That is exactly it. It's an exception. Um, and I've I've heard that happening just a couple times in the time I've done some of these conferences as well.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think of it more as you've got a lot of irons in the fire, and they're all sort of heating, you're keeping them all warm for when that right opportunity happens, when the timing lines up.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um actually, timing is a good point. Um, you know, not just kind of stick with the conference side, but in terms of pitching your project. So for a lot of our audience and our listeners, um, you may, you know, kind of attend all the festival portions of this and you're hoping to show your project to somebody. Um, maybe you're not getting a pass to the conference side. And oftentimes the conferences require a separate purchase. So there's an extra pass for those, just to keep in mind. Um, but if you have your own short film, if you have your own um, you know, pitch project and it's you're early on in its infancy there, um, but you want to show that around, right? Then, you know, that's something that you have to be aware of. Like you can contact um producers, you can contact broadcasters and try to meet up with them outside of those conference events and hours and maybe even the festival hours. Um, but you have to go in knowing, I think ideally, you should go into everything knowing what your priorities are, and you can layer that. Like, if you do have a project you want to try to pitch, then you have to look at these festivals and conferences and decide how much effort and how much time you're gonna dedicate to that. Um, and that again, that can vary depending on the conference. Like for me, when I was pitching stuff, um that was almost my sole focus, right? So I would only take in a few films during the festival portion. Um, but I was like, okay, I'm gonna like pitch to as many people as I can, as many broadcasters. And I think uh kind of in my most recent memory, my one writing partner and I, we we pitched in Ottawa during the fast. Uh sorry, I keep forgetting what it was, pitch this, I guess. It was the pitch this thing. Um anyways, but we we pitched that year to about 22 different people, studios and producers, and a couple of broadcasters.

SPEAKER_02

So, can you explain what what the difference between like pitch this is or just a pitch to an individual producer might be like?

SPEAKER_00

Right. So with Ottawa, um, there is um, sorry, I'm just gonna pull it up. Sorry, forget the um, just because I want to make sure I'm not saying something that is no longer uh you know updated. Totally.

SPEAKER_02

Because we did have a guest uh previously on this episode, Tarun, who uh was a winner of pitch this. And we did talk about it, but we didn't really talk about like what does that actually look like? What's the process like?

SPEAKER_00

Right. Yeah. So what happens with uh I'll just speak about pitch this first, I think. Sure.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_00

Pitch this is kind of like a big, big event where you have to submit your pitch project or your idea, your concept to basically a jury. And that that happens well, well before the actual festival. And during that process, they kind of weed out, they kind of like decide which projects they're interested in.

SPEAKER_02

Um and does and does pitch this have a specific format your pitching your pitch should look like? Like, because like for example, when you apply to Sheridan, they have like very specific drawings they want to see. Uh, is pitch this similar? Like, is the package meant to look a certain way?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it well, a little bit. There is a basic format. The generally they they do look for um you know projects that are uh series related. Okay. Um, not necessarily feature. Um, I I I can't recall off the top of my head if anything has come through that way, but when I was doing it, and that was in maybe 2018 or 2019, I think it was just a year or two before COVID. Um, basically it was mostly just series type development.

SPEAKER_02

So that standard like pick pitch package for a series?

SPEAKER_00

Yes. And oftentimes you could start with just a very rudimentary kind of package. You have a concept, you have like a maybe even a rough script, you can have some drawings, but through that process, they would expect you to keep building on that.

SPEAKER_02

I see.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Yeah. And I think for me, because I had worked on my pitch a little bit before, like I had worked on that pitch to pitch to other broadcasts. Masters earlier that year. I already had a lot of material kind of on the go. So as far as I recall, the process then involved me just um working with the development executive that they assigned to me, um, just fine-tuning details about it, what that development executive you know would recommend to basically get me to the next stage of that competition.

SPEAKER_02

The development executive was assigned to you after you were accepted into the Yes, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So you you basically do your initial application, then they kind of decide which projects they want to kind of forward into the next stage. So a little bit like an American Idol kind of thing, right? Um and then they would uh assign a uh a development executive to you and your project. And you would have like a couple of, I think we just had a couple meetings where that development executive would then uh previously review my my project and then give me, you know, advice and areas that I should work on, change, blah, blah, blah, a lot of that based on their experience. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And what did you find that useful? Was it interesting perspective?

SPEAKER_00

Uh yeah, there were, I mean, I think there was some uh useful stuff out of it. And I'll be honest, like, um, and I won't say names, but you know, the what the funny thing that happened is that the development executive assigned to my project that time was someone I had actually pitched to in the past and I'd known him for a couple of years.

SPEAKER_02

Um, interesting.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, he was um he was helpful in some ways, but we joked about it because it's like, well, John, I really don't have much to tell you about. Um, which was, I mean, it was nice, but I really, you know, you still need a different set of eyes looking at your project. I mean, if you if you've done your own pitch projects, then the best thing is always to show it to different people, get a sense of how everybody else kind of sees it. Because, you know, and I I I've been guilty of this myself where earlier on when I was developing my own pitch pitches, um, you know, you kind of work on it, work on it in your own vacuum. And you you you don't want to show anyone until you feel you're ready to. And then when you show it to someone, they just they may throw in a little bit of a wrench and say, Well, have you thought about this? Or what about this? And you're like, Oh, darn, I didn't think about that, right? Yeah. So I think it's always important to um to keep that in mind. And so when you get the development executive attached to your project, you really want to be a sponge. You want to like ask some questions, get their take on it, make sure they're giving you advice that you you really can take to heart. Um, and it's not that you can you will use all of it, but some of it is very related to how the business works. So again, you don't want to take it too personally. Like some things they're gonna say, they're like, you know, no one's really looking for that right now.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I before we get further into the pitch this process, which I'm interested in, what you're saying about the development executive really makes me think. Did you talk to anybody else from the industry before you even applied to pitch this? Like, were you running it through other people in the industry?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. I'd already kind of soft pitched that project to a few different people, a few different producers. I hadn't actually pitched it to, oh, wait, that's not true. I think we may have pitched to one Canadian broadcaster. Um, and they were interested. You know, it's kind of the typical broadcaster who will say, Oh, we're interested. That sounds kind of cool. And then they kind of want to see you develop it more and see where it goes because it was so early on. I believe when I initially soft pitched it to that broadcaster, all I had was uh like a cover page, um, a couple springboards for stories, uh, character character bials for all the main characters, and I think a couple of um character um kind of expressions and drawings. So it was still again very early on, but the concept of the show itself was kind of there. Um, so they were interested in how it was going to look, you know, down the road.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So we continue to work on it. I think it was about a year later that I entered it into the uh Ottawa festival for pitch this.

SPEAKER_02

And how did how did it go? How long was that process with the development executive before uh like what's really only a couple weeks?

SPEAKER_00

It was actually very short because the lead up time to the actual festival uh wasn't very long. Um, don't quote me on this, but I think it was only about a month and a half.

SPEAKER_02

Oh wow, okay, that's pretty short.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was, I mean, I recall it was pretty short because it literally, I think my project may have been chosen near the end of that initial process. Um, and I know I submitted it, you know, kind of late in the application process as well. So I was actually kind of surprised they they chose it because it was like, uh I don't know, they probably got a lot of projects coming in already.

SPEAKER_02

And well, that just goes to show that, like, you know, you have to silence the inner voice a little bit.

SPEAKER_00

You do, yeah, yeah. And we all have that. Like, you know, even with my experience, and everyone with my experience will say the same thing.

SPEAKER_02

You still still feel like you have a bit of that, um even with uh other studio saying we're interested, which to me sounds really promising.

SPEAKER_01

Like, of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So it it's yeah, it is hard to keep that confidence uh going for sure. So was the next stage of the pitch this like at the festival?

SPEAKER_00

Uh well, more or less, yes. Um, so I think just before the festival started, there was one more kind of um jury selection. So they weeded it down. I think there was like a top 10. Uh, if I recall, I was in the top 10, and that's what brought it into the festival. And then the top 10 pitched on stage uh at the festival or attack.

SPEAKER_02

Had you ever done something like that before?

SPEAKER_00

No, no, I'd never pitched on stage.

SPEAKER_02

That sounds really intimidating.

SPEAKER_00

I was super intimidated and nervous because I'm like, oh my god, I've only pitched these things, you know, one-to-one. You know, you're sitting at a table and with a coffee kind of thing, or even with a colleague, because I've had other projects I've worked on, whether my own or with other people for their projects.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and so it's been mostly like face-to-face, one-to-one in either a private room or in a giant conference room with 25 other tables of other people pitching at the same time to other people.

SPEAKER_02

It's really different too. Yeah. You know, I when we were talking to Roon, he talked about how much he prepped for that part of it. And I imagine presenting to an individual versus on a stage with a crowd, yeah, it's more of a performance than it is even uh a conversation. So, did you do some practicing as well?

SPEAKER_00

I did a heck of a lot of practice. Okay. I uh because I was so nervous. And it's funny because I think people see me as someone who um is probably a good public speaker, but I'll be honest, I don't feel that way. I think maybe a lot of it comes from practice and preparation. Um, some of it also just stems from when I get on stage or if I do have to talk in front of a larger group of people, I think I always have to remind myself, hey, these are human beings and we're just having a conversation. Um, and I think the preparation, which is know your project, know what you're going to talk about because someone's going to ask a question, chances are it's going to be something you never thought about, right? Uh I think if you prepare yourself as best as you can so you know the project and you and it shows that you have confidence in your project, then your presentation itself will go a lot more smoother. Um, I think for me, because I was on stage in an auditorium. Uh and at that time, I'll be honest, I think because I didn't really know what to expect, while I was prepared with um the project itself, I did not really relate it to conversational presentation. So I think when I did that particular pitch, and if anyone did see me, then you would probably agree. I probably felt too um, I felt like I was a professional public speaker and not really selling the project. Um, so I probably came off being very clinical, and I will totally admit to that. Um, and I think that's why I didn't really want to do it. You know, when I realized, oh, wait a minute, I gotta go on stage and do this thing. I'm like, I should have hired someone else to be the pitch person. Because other projects that I saw during the same um, you know, pitch this competition, their presentations were far better than mine because they they knew what it is they're trying to do on stage. Um, the winning, the winning project, um, they were a lot more relaxed than I was. I think the runner up, uh, who had a great, I think they had a very, very good pitch project. Um, and I think a lot of people that year felt he should have won, but um, but his presentation, although very loose on stage, made a better connection to the audience. And I think that's what I'm getting at. It's like, it doesn't matter how polished you think all your words are, if you don't make the connection to your audience, then it's probably not going to win, or it's probably not quite going to reach the level you want it to reach.

SPEAKER_02

You know, this whole process is not really the standard process for projects getting made, right? It's it's it, it's a competition.

SPEAKER_04

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02

Uh, so it's a different skill set on like being a performer on stage uh is a skill set that uh not everybody is practicing in the industry. Um so I can see why do it you'd have to do it a few times. It's like doing stand-up in a way. You you want to really get it in front of an audience, see what's connecting first. Uh, and that's really different from what we do on a day-to-day level.

SPEAKER_00

Of course, yeah. But when you think about it, it, you know, I had mentioned American Idol earlier and any of those types of talent, you know, competitions. It is pretty much the same idea because if you've got your own project, if you've got your own story to tell, when you present it at a competition or otherwise, even if you're at a table with one other person, your job is to tell that story in a manner that that person connects to it, right? And so for a singer on American Idol, Canadian Idol, whatever you want to call it, um, the it's the same exact thing. We we oftentimes see these performers and musicians and singers and say, Oh my god, they're such amazing singers, right? And someone can technically have a great voice, but when they get to one of those competitions and they perform in front of that audience and in front of those judges, you know, again, if they don't connect emotionally with the story of that song, the audience will not buy it and the judges won't buy it either. And I know that's something that maybe a lot of people don't really realize, but that's an important part of being a performer on stage is connecting to the audience emotionally. Um you know, a little sidetrack, but when I was taking some singing lessons, that was the one thing my coach, my instructor, said that I really needed to work on. She said, you know, John, you've got a really good voice and you can get a lot of training and you'll make it sound good. But if you don't tell the story emotionally and connect to your audience, they won't care.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's really interesting. I, you know, I think uh pitch this and that kind of competition isn't something necessarily everybody's gonna do. Uh, but I think you must have learned a lot about communication from that experience, right? Beyond just pitching on a stage, but uh you might learned about your your process of communication, and I'm sure you must have taken that with you to Johnson. Oh, absolutely, yeah, to other things. So even though you your pitch didn't win, it seems like it was a really valuable experience for you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I think every yeah, everything you do at the festival, every connection you make, every experience you have there, you should always take at least a part of that with you and move forward with it. Because the festivals are there for you to meet, network, learn, grow. Like everything we do on a daily basis is about growing up in life, you know, continuing to move forward. And you have to take both experiences good and bad. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you learn more learn more from failure uh in most cases. Um, well, let's talk about the festivals, uh, the main ones that we're aware of. Uh, I know you've been to quite a few of them. I've been to Taffy uh as a filmmaker, which I was really fun. Um and I've been to the Ottawa Animation Festival as well, which was a huge, sort of overwhelming experience. But what are some of the other ones that you you know of, John?

SPEAKER_00

Um, well, I think those two, the Ottawa, Ottawa is obviously you know the longest running, as far as I can tell from my brain. Um, and then Taffy is the Toronto one, which I remember I attended their first event long, long, long, long time ago now it feels. Um that's another great one. And again, TAFE's coming up in April. Um, if you can't get out to Ottawa and you're you know kind of GTA based, then Taffy is the place you want to go. It it would be very similar to Ottawa. You know, there's a festival portion, there's a lot of networking opportunities. Um, they also have the portfolio review days, usually, and I had been part of that uh years ago helping to review some portfolios. Um, but on top of that, like in terms of other events, uh, another big one that maybe a lot of people don't know, and uh it's not so much an artist thing, but it's something called the Youth Media Alliance. It's a group based out of Quebec, and they usually have a conference in November. So they'll be doing that. And they've had other events throughout the year. They have an award ceremony for the awards of excellence. And the YMA, for anyone that doesn't know, it's the Youth Media Alliance. I've been a member of it for a few years now, um, on and off. Um, but their their mandate is to basically make sure that content created for kids meets a certain quality. They we have a certain bar we want to meet. Um, and it's about uh, you know, and I'll just kind of read it a little bit off their own website, but it's about enriching the lives of Canadian children and teens by helping improve the quality of content created for them on all screen-based media. So their mandate is to me, it's a very important thing. We're not just creating content for the the heck of it. Um, it's making sure there's quality behind all of it and that kids who watch can take something from each of these programs.

SPEAKER_02

And they have an event yearly?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so they they have a number of events uh through the year. So their their biggest event, I guess, would be the uh the Youth Media Alliance Awards of Excellence, which happens usually uh, I believe it was in May or June. Um, and then they have their own conference in November. So that's where a lot of producers and broadcasters will come together and they exchange ideas about, you know, the industry training, how to develop uh, you know, skills and professionals to again, you know, kind of help build up the community as well. And it's also basically a forum for discussions from you know, from everybody across the board, across the industry.

SPEAKER_02

And uh are people submitting films? Is it the same process?

SPEAKER_00

No, this this is this is not necessarily a film process or a film festival. This is a bit more on the conference side for producers, business owners. So, you know, uh owners of studios like Guru and Elliott Animation and Industrial Brothers oftentimes will attend these to help kind of again expand on the industry and network with other uh, you know, studios and broadcasters to talk about how to continue to strengthen the industry, especially in times like this.

SPEAKER_02

Are there any other film festivals that uh artists should know about?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah. Um, so another big one that happens about, if I recall, about the same time as Anasi, which again is in France. Um, and I know that's expensive to get to. But if you want to stay a little more local, then Banv has a world media festival. I think it's early June. It's about the same time as Anasi, if not, maybe it's a week later or a week before. Um, but that's another place where there's a marketplace, there's a bit of a festival that happens there. And again, also another conference portion for business owners and producers to attend and uh create opportunities for production. So, you know, again, the the important thing for people to remember is even though these are conferences, it may not relate specifically to an artist and what they do. Um, this is where some business is actually created. So, you know, if if a studio or if a producer has a project and they're looking for a studio to come on board as a production service studio, then uh, you know, deals can kind of be forged around this time as well.

SPEAKER_02

And do artists come to these kind of conferences as well?

SPEAKER_00

Some do. You know, again, it depends what their their goal is. Like for me, I, you know, my initial uh attendance at something like Kids Screen, which is not really an artist-based conference. Um, but as an artist myself, I was like, well, I'm gonna go to Kids Screen and I'm gonna learn what it's all about, and I'm gonna take a couple of my projects with me and you know start the pitch process because I was fairly new to it at the time.

SPEAKER_02

Um Kid Screen and MIP are different, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, Kid Screen happens in the States. It currently happens in San Diego, it was previously in Miami for a number of years, and before that it was in New York, and then MIP is uh out in Cannes in France, and that's a very expensive uh there are a couple variations or um uh uh versions of MIP. So there's like a MIP TV, MIP Kids. I think they I can't quite remember again, don't quote me on it, but they've kind of merged a few of them. Uh, and there's usually two MIPS. There's one in the fall, one in the spring.

SPEAKER_02

It's quite often owners bringing their projects, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, because I've worked on projects that have gone to MIP or Kids Screen. Uh, because quite often it's an internal project the studio is doing, yeah, and you're working really hard to meet a crazy deadline, uh, maybe even on top of a project you're already doing.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, so that's my perspective of it. I haven't actually been there. Are are the owners putting up uh a pitch similar to what you were talking about with Pitch This, or is it purely like, here's our visual presentation?

SPEAKER_00

It's usually a bigger, bigger than what we would see at Pitch This. Like Pitch This, sometimes you'll see like a teaser trailer or whatever. But oftentimes, by the time you get to MIP, you really are expected to have at the very least some kind of teaser trailer or even a pilot episode done. Okay. So we're talking like further along in development because it's super expensive to go to MIP. Earlier on in my career, I was like, one day I'm gonna go to MIP, and then I looked at the price and like, oh my God. You know, a pass is a few thousand dollars flying there, accommodations you're looking at. Uh, you know, I haven't looked at it lately, but I imagine you're spending for an individual, especially if you're going on your own and you're paying your own way, you're looking at probably close to ten thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_02

So it's more that is definitely a business investment. So you you're a business owner and you're hoping to get a result from that. Where I think when I think of festival engagement, it doesn't have to be that, doesn't have to have a result. I think it can be more of a connection experience-based thing that may have long-term benefits in the world. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think for artists, independent artists, if you've got your own project, you can you definitely go to Ottawa, go to Taffy, go to Alberta, even Annecy, if you can afford to go. Because at Annecy, the festival portion also, you know, it attracts a lot of creatives, a lot of artists from around the world. You get to meet them, you get to connect. And I think from those connections, again, you might end up meeting a producer who may be willing to pick up and option your project. Um, so the process of that, you know, it can be quite lengthy, and I'm sure that's a whole other discussion. Um, but in terms of what you were saying, like, you know, you work for a studio and then they're going to be attending MIP with a project, that project could have been developed in-house, but it could be something they picked up from a creator out of house and you know, decided, hey, you know, we really like your project, we'll option it for a certain period for a certain amount. And then they use the studio resources like yourself to help develop it further, to then take a bigger package to something like a map or even a kid's screen. Um, so again, yeah, that's a bigger process we can certainly chat more about.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that seems more about the uh how to get a show made process than maybe what you're doing at a festival.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but even again, at a festival, you never know what can transpire. If you need a producer who then you show, you know, it's like, oh, nice to meet you. Hey, do you have a few minutes? Would you mind just having a chat with me and maybe I can show you what I've been working on? And then they become interested in that. And I've had that opportunity myself where I had met someone for the very first time in Ottawa, uh, just by stroke of luck, really. I was actually meeting with a different producer, and that producer interest uh introduced me to another producer, and that you know, spawned into like um, you know, multi-year working relationship. Uh, you know, so you you never really know what's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I so I made a short film. I had it play at the at Taffy, I had it played at a couple other festivals, and then my process, uh, although I think I could have should have done more work on it, was just going online and looking at festivals that accepted material that I hadn't. Absolutely. Uh so it played in a stop motion festival, uh, which I didn't attend, but you know, it was it was fun to get into a festival. Um and beyond just uh the festival aspect of it, creating a film that got recognized. So I won uh or a Tide for Audience Choice Award at Taffy that year.

SPEAKER_01

Amazing.

SPEAKER_02

But that has that got me a job uh because the work got recognized in a festival. But not only did it get me a job, it was something that was used on my application to work in the States. Like there's there's benefits that you aren't necessarily gonna get the day during the event that will carry on for years to come. And even still, like there's a lot of credibility you get as an artist when you've created and put something out you've made yourself. Uh it's it's a hard thing to do. It takes a lot of effort and uh it's a hubris to a certain degree, of course. Yeah, but um, but I think it shows people that you beyond just working in a studio system, you you understand the process and even a film pro even a festival process.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are, and that's the thing, there are so many other festivals. Like if we look it up right now on Google, we will have this gigantic list. And I encourage people to just if you're interested in submitting something to a festival, just start with a search. Like, you know, one one festival I've completely overlooked, which may not seem totally relevant, but TIFF, we have the Toronto International Film Festival, and now they've got animation, you know, films showing there. So, and and they've always kind of had a segment for that, right? In the past, I've gone years and years ago. Actually, I remember going when they kind of were still, I think it was called the Festival of Festivals, and maybe that was not quite when I was a kid because I would have been too young, but before they rebranded into the Toronto International Film Festival.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I think even uh if you if you're not going for the animation aspect of Toronto International Festival, it's still a really wild experience to see to be in that community, see what that side of entertainment industry is like as well. Yeah, you know, animation and live action are different, but there's a lot of overlap and there's stuff you can learn from both. So yeah, absolutely, even just as an observer, it's really interesting to go to Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I that's what I assume. The first time I went to TIFF as an actual uh, I guess what whatever they call it, a delegate, right? So you get the official delegate delegation badge and you feel all important because hey, I'm I'm a professional, and they do have to like check your credentials before you actually get one of those. But um, so I made that assumption too. I'm kind of like, oh, I'll go there and I'm just gonna hang out. I'm gonna get to watch some interesting films, and but it turned out to be much like going to Ottawa or TAFE. I made a lot of different connections, a lot of live action connections. I met, ended up meeting and having a couple meetings with live action producers who were interested in adding animation segments to some of their projects, right? Um, I even met with some distributors who were like, oh, you know, we don't know much about animation, but we're thinking about it. Can you tell us something about it? Right. So there are all these things that started happening. I met with composers, music composers, and again, all these things that seem like to me, it just kind of came out of nowhere. But then you realize, well, wait a minute, this is a festival on a conference, and people are looking to make connections and meet other people. And um, you know, even attending, like, you know, it's where I got to see um, sorry, years ago, I think it was um the one Japanese anime film, the The Boy and the Beast. I I can't remember if that's the correct title, but they actually premiered, I believe, at TIFF that particular year. Um, and it was a presentation by the Japanese Cultural Center. So, you know, you just never know what's gonna happen with that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think one thing we haven't really talked about also with the festival experience is just feeling inspired. Uh, when you work in animation, it can feel uh a bit clinical, it can feel a little bit uncreative sometimes. And going to these festivals, watching people's uh personal projects can just really ignite that love again because you're gonna see stuff that you don't see in the mainstream, yeah. Uh, which is it can be really fun and invigorating.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm I'm I'm I'm gonna like say this, which I say oftentimes, and most people who know me now will probably have heard it many times from me. But you know, the great thing about seeing these other films and being at the festivals is that you're not seeing kind of typical Saturday morning preschool shows. You know, we do work on it, and a lot of them can be fun, and you can have a great team and a great crew. Um, but it it's still kind of our work day, right? So when you go to these festivals and see things that are different and done in different styles and with different types of storytelling formulas or structures. Um, but I think, yeah, I mean that that can be so inspiring. But for me, I think the most inspiring thing is meeting these other filmmakers and kind of hearing their stories about how they put their blood, sweat, and tears into making the film, right? Because they're not paid to do it. Most of the times they're not.

SPEAKER_02

No, it's not really a lucrative. I think that's why it can be more interesting because it's not a product that's designed necessarily to make money in the end. Right. So it's not always chasing market forces, it's chasing people's passion more.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. And you get that out of the pitches too. That's what I enjoy about listening to pitches and seeing what people are doing there because it's, you know, you have to put a lot of effort into doing that. And while, yes, you kind of have to tailor it to a certain market, you know, ideally your your seed, your core idea came from a place, a story you really want to tell. And ideally, that seed remains in that pitch. And that is, again, part of that emotional storytelling I was mentioning. You you need to believe in that essence of the story to sell this pitch.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

And um, and the amount of work that goes into that alone is still very noteworthy.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I I mean, uh of course, films are being uh like weeded through, right? Like you have to submit your film. There's a panel of people usually who are deciding whether it will play in the festival. So you are in a way making a product for a specific event. So you know, maybe keep that in mind when you're applying, where you when you're submitting your film. Um but it and there are a lot of people submitting, you're competing with a lot of talented people too. So you have to remember that as well. But um, yeah, especially something that uh helps, I think, is doing more work, like reapplying, I think, can make a difference as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think you always like even if you're submitting for these competitions, you just have to keep trying. Like and and as I said, you you do, even if you don't get accepted into any of these competitions, like outside of those, you should be trying to pitch your project to other people. Yes, like get it to where you you ideally feel somewhat comfortable starting to pitch. Um, and you can do the soft pitches, they don't have to be super formal. You can hit up somebody and say, hey, I'm working on this, I'm looking, you know, to just be able to bounce the idea off somebody and hopefully get more advice and get some more direction and maybe what it needs or where it has to go. Um, because even that experience can make a huge difference.

SPEAKER_02

So something that uh we haven't talked about either is the the kind of party side of festivals. Because I had that experience when I was at Ottawa. It like beyond just the festival side of things, there were parties to go to, there were after parties, there were people hanging out in hotel rooms afterwards. Uh what's your experience with that? Are you engaged with that side of it?

SPEAKER_00

Uh only a little bit, I'll be honest. Like, um, I think it's been a while since well, I'll be honest, I've it's never a party boy. So it's it's not that I would avoid them. I would go to some of the after parties and the nighttime events, which are you know, they can be kind of fun, but for me they tend to be kind of loud. Like the bigger parties, there's always like a DJ and loud music. So I find you know, you start the evening trying to speak to people and then you end up going outside the venue to try to have a better conversation.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, but I think it's still good. Like, you know, if that's your thing, totally go for it. Again, you can meet different people there.

SPEAKER_02

Um, it can take the pressure off a bit, I think. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think I mean ideally you go to these things because you you're gonna try to have fun, right? Even if you're attending some of the conference stuff, you know, you want to try to have fun with it because you you don't want everything to just feel like a weight on your shoulders. And when you're pitching your project, just try to have fun with it because that energy is going to be read by the table. It's gonna be read by the other people at that table and in that room.

SPEAKER_02

Even in a just a quick coffee chat, they're gonna feel that too. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

They they want to know who you are as a person, why you're pitching your project and how you believe in it, and the energy you would bring as a creator and as a possible showrunner for your own project, right?

SPEAKER_02

Or even just a work partner.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yeah. Um, but in terms of like the the nighttime events and the parties, like the picnic is a lot of fun. Um, it's always good to meet people there. And again, always for me, it's always like a bit of a 50-50. It's like I get to meet new people, but I get to reconnect with people I haven't seen. Because a lot of them will be from overseas, and you know, there's a bunch from even the UK I get to reconnect with every year in Ottawa while we're at Kids Screen. That idea. Um, but in terms of like uh, I would say, you know, the parties are fun, but there is so much happening at these festivals. Try to remember to pace yourself, yeah. Right. It's always a great idea to think, oh, I'm gonna hit as much as I can, and that's amazing, but you can get tired very, very fast.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and you might spread yourself too thin in terms of what you're getting out of it. Yeah. Uh yeah. And there's always another one next year.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. There's other ones, and if there are people you know, you know are you gonna be able to catch up with them again later on. Um, you can always, even with new contacts, if you've exchanged information, you know, you can always just remember that. It's like, oh yeah, you know, we'll we'll talk more. I'm gonna shoot you an email tomorrow or in next week when everything's settled, and let's uh let's try to book a Zoom call or some kind of video chat afterwards.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Oh, I have a question.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02

You've been, I think, more recently at these events than I have. When I was there, a lot of people were giving out business cards.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Are people still doing that?

SPEAKER_00

Uh, I would say less so. Yeah. I mean, a few people do, but I'll be honest, like I haven't handed out a business card in a long time, and I still have a giant box of them.

SPEAKER_02

So, how are you making that connection? Are you just getting an email address? Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Or like a LinkedIn email.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's either LinkedIn or email. Oftentimes I'll just share my email with them because we all have phones now, right? Yep, yeah. Um, it's so easy to do that. If you have a business card, people like myself will be appreciative because I grew up with business cards and as a kid I collected business cards. So um, so for me, and there's the tangibility of it too. What uh I find, to be honest, um, which is something I again, you know, I'm I'm talking about this and I should do it more. Is if I do remember to bring business cards, I try to hand them out because it's not just the tangibility, but you know what? The business card is an immediate visual anchor for me to make a connection to that person. I'll look at the card later that evening back at the hotel or wherever I am, and like, oh yes, this is that person. And on that card, I will write what I remember about that person. Um, so I don't know if that's something that people may want to consider doing. Like um, at kids screen, we're not always getting business cards nowadays, too. I'll have a little notebook, you know, tiny little thing I can put in my pocket and have my pen, my good pen, so I never run out of ink. Um, and at the end of every day, in my little notebook, I'll write a list of who I met and what happened during that day. And who I met is followed with one specific thing I remember about that person. That's great. And it can be work-related, but it could be something a little more unique, like, oh, that person ordered this particular thing at lunch and it it struck me for some reason. Or there was something about the conversation I had with that person.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, because it can it's all going on so fast and so much is coming at you at once that it's easy for things to get lost in the shuffle. That's a smart idea. I think that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I think as artists, you know, oftentimes we'll have a sketchbook. We may have an iPad and maybe a physical sketchbook. Um, and if you're used to doodling things in that, I suggest, yeah, doodle a note about that person you met that day and maybe even doodle a caricature or a quick little sketch about that person. Um, because those anchor points are really going to be helpful for you later. Um, you know, when I was younger and I just collected the business cards and I didn't think, you know, what was unique about that conversation with that person. This was way before kind of animation for me. But um, you know, I'd look at the card and there might have been something I could remember, but sometimes I wouldn't remember anything. And I'd look at that business card. And unless that business card had an amazing design and was printed on amazing paper, like in American Psycho, you know, I oftentimes would forget and be like, oh, I guess it doesn't really mean anything.

SPEAKER_02

It is even with a business card, you can forget that person, yeah. But I think that's such a good piece of advice because, like, say that person did reach out to you and you cannot remember what that meeting felt like, uh, and you have a little note written down to jog your memory. That's quite smart, I think.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think that when I started doing that, uh, probably well, just over 10 years ago, um, you know, I found, oh my God, why didn't I do this sooner? Why did I think of this sooner? And I'm sure other people out there have probably done something similar, but the value of it once I really start thinking about it and being conscious of doing that every time I met somebody has really been amazing. Um, and I think, you know, again, regardless of whether you're pitching something or not, you know, if you're meeting these new people, you know, make a mental note. If not, if you're not writing it down, the very least, make a mental note about that particular person or that group of people that you've met. And it could be a studio too, you know, why it is you may want to work with that studio, even though they're kind of not on your radar necessarily.

SPEAKER_02

I think what I'm hearing from this whole conversation is when you're going to a festival or a conference, you kind of want to have a plan. You want to have a uh a prep plan, you know, re-research who you want to talk to, what you want to talk about. You want to have a uh festival plan, like these are things I want to do at the festival, these are people I want to meet. You want to keep track of all that. And then post-festival, you want to just recap everything, figure out who you want to talk talk to again, but have a plan basically, have a process. So you're not just I mean, you can go in willy-nilly your first time if you're if you don't expect anything, but like if you really want to like get something out of it, you know, have a little bit of your own system.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. I think have at the very least, like because most of these, you know, will have a festival portion, or some of them will have a festival portion. So speaking to something like Taffy or Ottawa Annecy, um, at the very least, you should know what their programming is for the films you want to see. Because some of the venues can be far apart, some of them can be really close together, and then you gotta like scramble to get to the next screening of whatever film it is you do want to see. And also be realistic, you may not be able to get to see everything you want to see. Yeah, I've had that happen many times where it's like, well, I want to sit in on this workshop or this talk, this panel, but the only screening of this thing happens at the same time. So then you have to decide which one you want to go to.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, definitely. Well, uh, you've definitely given me a lot to think about. I I'm more interested in heading back to the festival circuit even without a film, uh, just to meet people again. I think also because work from home has been so prevalent now, it's also a good way to get out there and talk to people in person.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I think it's you know, to to really keep your finger on the pulse of the industry, I it's easy for us to kind of sit behind cameras right now and and kind of you know gauge what is happening based on what we may read and what other people say. But to get to a festival, uh, again, even if you're not pitching anything, if you have no specific thing you're going after, um, but just connecting with, you know, the people out there who may be looking for work or who are working on their own projects, maybe they have something independently they're working on they need people, like get a better sense of you know, where the community at large is kind of sitting at this time. I think that's really important.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely. Well, this was a great conversation, John. I am certainly enlightened about uh festivals and it feels more approachable now to me. Um, is there any any other last thoughts you have about what it's like to be at a festival?

SPEAKER_00

Um, I think, you know, kind of what we generally always kind of come back to, which is just try to have fun. You know, it it can be a busy time. And again, if you're only looking to go to check out some films and you're really relaxed, but that's totally cool. You know, I'm not saying everyone has to like build up some kind of, you know, schedule on what they're gonna do and see at any of the festivals or conferences. Yeah. Um, obviously, more so with a conference because it's more business related. You have to definitely be prepared for those. But ultimately, you really just have to have fun with everything you're doing there, whether you're in the pitch this competition or you're part of the fast pitch, you know, kind of programming with TAC, which, you know, it I believe it's like a two-day event, couple sessions where you're you're pitching to as many different people as you can. Um, you just gotta have fun with it. You gotta roll with it. Try not to take it overly seriously because we're still working on cartoons at the end of the day. And again, people want to read that energy from you. They want to know, again, what kind of person you are and how fun it would be to work with you.

SPEAKER_02

John, we we should go to the our next the next festival together.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, well, again, I'm planning to be in Ottawa, so if you're gonna be there.

SPEAKER_02

What when's the when's the Ottawa one this year?

SPEAKER_00

Uh, I believe it is the 23rd uh 24th, sorry, excuse me, 24th of September to the 28th of September. Uh, I'm only thinking 23rd because I'm probably gonna be on the road on the 23rd.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, well, if it's a weekend, I can make it work.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, the um, yeah, it runs into the weekend. So the weekend will be the Friday, Saturday, Sunday. That usually is how it works. So the 26th, 27th, 28th. The picnic is on the Friday for anyone that doesn't know. Uh, Friday night party usually. Um, and then there's like all sorts of events and even more screenings during the weekend as well.

SPEAKER_02

Cool. Let's make this happen, John.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we'll do it. And for anyone else that is listening, or uh, if you happen to listen to this after the fact, there's always next year as well. So please feel free to reach out and let's try to get together at some point.

SPEAKER_02

Awesome. All right. Well, thanks so much, John.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, thank you, Kathy. Appreciate it. And uh we will talk to everybody on the next record.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

The ACC podcast is created and hosted by Kathy McDonald and John Lee. Music by Mike Romaniac, mixing and editing by Kathy McDonald, and produced by Kyrene Kim.