Who Replaces the Entry-Level Learning Experience?

In this episode of Two Doctors and a Twist, Dr. Marilyn Carroll and Dr. Jamie Chesler examine a growing workforce challenge: If AI removes the entry-level tasks through which people traditionally learned, where will tomorrow’s experienced professionals and leaders come from?

The conversation challenges the idea that routine entry-level work is merely low-level labor. Those early assignments also function as developmental experiences. Through them, beginners observe experienced professionals, learn how decisions are made, understand how customers and colleagues respond, build relationships, recognize problems, and gradually develop judgment.

Key takeaways include:

• Entry-level tasks often serve as informal apprenticeships.
• Automating a task may unintentionally automate the learning attached to it.
• Today’s efficiency decision could become tomorrow’s leadership-pipeline problem.
• AI may eliminate certain entry-level tasks, but it does not eliminate the need for entry-level people.
• Employers cannot expect experienced professionals without giving beginners opportunities to gain experience.
• Development must become intentional rather than an accidental byproduct of routine work.
• Colleges and employers share responsibility for designing the new first rung of the career ladder.
• Students need opportunities to apply their knowledge to real problems before graduating.
• Traditional internships remain valuable, but exposure alone is insufficient; the goal must be capability development.
• Work-based learning should include clearly defined outcomes, meaningful assignments, mentorship, feedback, and employer verification.

Dr. Carroll and Dr. Chesler also share how foundational work shaped their own professional judgment. Their early accounting and bookkeeping experiences provided more than technical knowledge. They learned by observing senior professionals, reviewing documents, communicating with vendors and financial partners, managing processes, and seeing how decisions affected organizations.

These experiences illustrate the hidden developmental value of work that might now be automated.

Potential replacements for disappearing entry-level learning include:

• Registered apprenticeships and micro-apprenticeships
• Short-term employer projects
• Job shadowing with structured learning goals
• Simulations and case-based decision-making
• Rotational assignments
• Mentorship programs
• Client-based consulting assignments
• Community projects
• Real business problems embedded into college courses

The episode emphasizes that these experiences should not become artificial busywork. Learners need authentic problems, access to experienced professionals, opportunities to make decisions, and feedback that helps them understand the outcomes.

Three important questions emerged:

1. Should every college student have real-world experience before graduation?

    Every student should have an opportunity to apply learning to a real problem, although that experience does not have to be a traditional internship.

2. Are internships alone enough?

    No. Internships must intentionally define what students will learn, who will mentor them, what work they will complete, and how their capabilities will be evaluated. 

3. Should employers replace developmental experiences they automate?

    Yes. When an organization automates a task that once taught employees something important, leaders must ask: Where will that learning happen now?

The central message is unmistakable: organizations can automate tasks, but they cannot automate the need for experienced people.

If AI changes the first rung of the career ladder, education and employers must work together to build a new one. Otherwise, organizations may gain efficiency today while weakening the talent and leadership pipeline they will depend on tomorrow.

Stay connected with 2 Doctors & A Twist – Just What the Doctor Ordered!

• Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.
• Follow us on LinkedIn for clips, insights, and upcoming episodes.

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Well, welcome back, guys, to Two Doctors in a Twist. Uh it's another, it's another Wednesday here. And boy, do we have some stuff for you. Hey, Jamie, what's going on, girl?

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Well, well, I I'm excited to be here because I think this is an important topic that we're going to be talking about today. You know, who who replaces as knowing that there are people out there that are trying to get the experience they need, getting their education, but they still need the experience. What is happening with those entry-level positions? So who's who replaces the entry-level learning experience?

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Wow, yeah. I guess if it uh a lot of people are saying it will take the routine work, where will tomorrow's leaders uh learn? Um anyway, we welcome you back. Dr. Jamie opened that beautifully. Uh, we're hearing a lot about AI eliminating entry-level tasks. But I have a different concern, Jamie. What happens to the learning? Those early tasks weren't just work, they were training, really.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Exactly. And I think that's what we sometimes miss when we talk about entry-level work, Marilyn. The task may look routine, but the learning happening around the task mean it all. And you know, you're you're watching how experienced people communicate. We're seeing how they solve problems, how they make their decisions and respond when something goes wrong. That's where judgment starts to develop.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Yes. Yes. Exactly. Uh, you learn, we learn how decisions were made, how customers reacted, how leaders handle pressure, and how to recognize when something didn't uh look right. Slowly you begin to develop judgment. And I remember this. Um, my first job out of college was at an accounting firm. And even though my job was to do 1065s, 1120s, and some 1040s, I worked in that partnership RAM in the corporate level at 1120s, and I was working with audit, auditing plants, auditing the financials of these companies uh before they uh went out to the bigger auditors that were going to audit and if they found findings. So uh a lot of medical offices, law offices, things of that nature. That's what the bigger partnership plans were at that time. And then the 1120s were smaller organizations that were over 500 employees, but they needed to be audited. And I noticed that in reading, when I first started the job, I was learning how to do things. I was always working with senior level accountants, and then the partners were the last group that we had to deliver the results to, the returns to, that had to sign off on those returns. And and so with that experience, I also noticed something different too. Once I went inside the coffee room, I was there, it was a girl in the coffee room, she would just be in tears because she had so much work to do copying those returns and putting them out. Now, yes, guys, I went in the coffee room. I worked with her in the coffee room while my work was being reviewed and getting back to my desk because you had to, in an accounting firm, you were required to work 10 to 12 hours during tax season. So I would go in there and try to help her out. But what I was really doing was reading the documents, reading what the partner said before in his letter or her letter before it went out to the client. And that's where I learned a lot about judgment, Jamie.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Well, talking about your experience, your intern experience coming from college, mine started before I ever started college in that basic entry level. There's a it was a position titled way back then. Let's see if you know this title, full charge bookkeeper. Oh yeah! Using bar handling the the budget, inventory, accounts payable, accounts receivable, credit, you know, uh all the things, the very basic level learning stuff, you know, yeah, weren't as automated back when I started in accounting and finance way back when, until finally I started in college as an adult learner, like a lot of the students that we teach Maryland, so went back and learned Lotus one, two, three. That was oh girl, yes, I remember that myself here and you know the green bar went away, automated stuff. But had I not developed those basic understanding and knowledge and those relationship skills with communicating with the vendors, with developing those contracts or inventory, all the things talking to bankers, loan officers, uh payroll, all the people that were involved internally and externally of the organization. What if I didn't have that basic knowledge and understanding? Okay, that's that's what's important because now things are so automated, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Yes, and you oh gosh, Jamie, Jamie, Jamie, Jamie, you hit on that. I love your story.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Uh because that was part of the development cost hiring those entry-level individuals. So now organizations can automate that assignment without realizing they're also automated an apprenticeship. Today's efficiency decision can become tomorrow's leadership pipeline problem, really.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yeah, exactly. And and Marilyn, that's the hidden cost of automation, is we're removing that opportunity to learn the basic internship or the basic entry-level stuff that that is so important to understand what automation is about and how much it can help. Because if we remove the work and we do that without intentionally replacing the learning, then we're creating that experience gap.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Wow, yes, that's true, Jamie. Um, and that's where we're seeing this apprenticeship thing come back. Uh, we may need new entry ramps, apprenticeships, micro-apprenticeships, short employer projects, job shadowing, simulations, rotations, even mentorships and real business problems embedded into college courses. Um can I give you an example real quick? Please, please do. There's a marketing company, a professor out of, I think it was UCLA. And um the company I was at uh an event in New York, and a lady that was sitting at the uh bar with me, she was talking about what her company did, and she worked for this lady from UCLA. And what they did was they would bring in um the marketing people from all over, not just that school, but from all over. They would spend a year in this marketing program. And during this program, they would go each quarter uh to some company or during the summer, they would go out to a various different companies and implement those projects for those companies. And that was part of their learning experience. So once they graduated from college, they have the experience needed to just hit the ground running. Uh, probably better experience than what they would get from an entry-level job, because in entry-level, you're most of the time by yourself. And with this structured group, you you piggyback on everybody's experience and what they're where they're coming from, and you get to talk about it. And so I think that learning experience was a much deeper learning experience for those individuals.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Yeah, I I I love that example, and we we have to have that, Marilyn. We have to be able to find something that's not just busy work, for the sake of giving people something to do. We have to figure out how are we going to redesign the entry-level experience and make it around learning. So my thought is we can give people real problems to solve, allow them to work alongside experienced professionals where they can use simulations, all the things you mentioned earlier, mentoring, apprenticeships, and projects where they can make decisions and learn from the outcome. You know, AI can it can do the routine work, right? We know that everything's becoming automated, but people still need opportunities to develop capability.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Yeah. And I and Jamie, I here's the twist AI may eliminate entry-level tasks without eliminating our need for entry-level people, but we still need somewhere for beginners to become experienced, as you stated. And I think employers also need, they have problems they need to solve. And so maybe it becomes that we need to partner with these companies as educators and build these particular things or areas or tasks in, like that marketing group did. Uh, I like that foundation that they had. Could you imagine if a person in health services administration actually got to work with a hospital for one quarter out of their year and to come together with others that we had put into that? Sort of like what we're doing with these entrepreneurship ventures that we, incubators that we have uh around and teaching them about entrepreneurship and how to work with bankers and things of that nature. I think it may be an opportunity for that for us to get with these companies and instead of them spending time elsewhere, what's your mission? Um let's see, what's your mission? Uh, let's see, target. Target, based on your mission and and your uh outcomes that you want, what type of people would you like to come in and see and come from our management program at the school into your organization? What are you looking for?

SPEAKER_01 11:34

And and deviate just a tad, but I want to piggyback off of what you shared because if if employers and institutions, educational institutions, can work alongside each other, support each other, because employers know what they need for the for their outcome of their product or service. They know the skills that are necessary. Now, you've got your institution, your higher institutions that need to understand more about what the employer wants. If they can work together to be able to provide those entry-level positions where knowledge can be learned based on what that particular employer needs and what that institution can develop and provide to that employer. Now, then it becomes a partnership with that institutions where they're located in that given community can support that community by making sure that the skill sets and the knowledge that's necessary for the employer for their product and service that the institution is providing that. And it can also, if they think about it like this, save on labor costs because it can be wrapped up into the cost of what the student needs for that particular course. And I know I know schools are doing that out there, but I think you really have to look at it in a more of a partnership way than just placing a student into another organization to do something for a little while, then coming back writing a report on what they learned, and then they get a grade partial credit for that. It's got to be more of a partnership where both are involved, the institution and the employer at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

I agree, Jamie. I agree. So it's sort of like you give them the review process of the outcomes that were expected from the trend from the internship. Right. Yes. So our rapid fire questions. Here we go.

unknown 13:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Should every college student have real work uh experience before graduation?

SPEAKER_01 13:47

I believe every student should have an opportunity to apply what they're learning to a real problem before they graduate. But not that Marilyn, that doesn't necessarily mean every student needs a traditional internship either. Okay. Just like we mentioned, apprenticeship, a consulting project, client-based assignment, assimilation, or community project. That the employer can can partner with the school and have places to get these employees instead of the job boards and recruiters and stuff. They ought they just partnership with the different institutions to get the entry-level work that they need.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

I mean, it it's just a win-win to me. I agree with you. So uh it doesn't sound like internships are enough.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

No, not by themselves. No. And internships, they're valuable, okay? But we just can't assume that every internship is going to provide meaningful development. Okay. Okay. We we got to be intentional about what students are learning, who is mentoring them, and what experiences they're actually gaining from the process. And internship should be more than exposure to the workplace. Don't just shadow somebody and sit and watch what they do all day. Oh my gosh, I used to hear opportunity to build capability.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

So it seems like it sounds like we're up in every game here. We're changing it for the better.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Well, that's what Two Doctors and a Twist is about, Marilyn.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

I know, I know. I love it, I love it. So, my last question to you should employers replace developmental experiences they automate?

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Yeah. If an organization automates a task that used to teach someone something important, then the leadership needs to ask where will that learning happen now? That's the question that we need to be asking because automation is going to create you know uh efficiency for us, it's gonna eliminate inefficiency, but it shouldn't eliminate development. Okay. If we remove that learning opportunity, we have to be intentional when we're creating a different one.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Wow, that's great. So our Lib magazine questions from our audience there is if we ought to make the first rung of the career letter, how will anyone reach the second? Wow.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

And and that and I'm I'm glad that you're asking me this question for our audience because my HR background allows me to kind of share a little bit, not only what my thoughts are, but from my experience, because that's really the question here. We can't expect someone to become an experienced professional without giving them opportunities to become experienced. I mean, really, that's it's a no-brainer here. If AI changes that first rung, that first career level rung, then education and employers again have to partner, they've got to work together to build that new first rung.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Wow. So as we close out, organizations can automate tasks. We're not saying that you should. They cannot automate the need for experienced people. So that's the thing there.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

Yeah, and developing that experience has to become intentional there. We can't ascend the traditional career ladder, it's going to continue to work the way that it always has. Because if AI changes the work people do at the beginning of their careers, then we have to redesign how people learn, how people grow and develop because they're going to be our leaders tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Exactly. And they need to know the foundational aspects of how things got there. So I'm Dr. Marilyn Carroll. I'm Dr. Jamie Chessler. And we'll see you next time on Two Doctors and a Twist.