The ROCKSTAR Mom

From Disagreements to Connection: How to Better Communicate During Conflict with Marielle Melling

• Megan Caldwell • Season 1 • Episode 12

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What if the hardest moments at home are actually your biggest opportunities to build trust and closeness? That’s the shift we make today with guest Marielle Melling, founder of Extraordinary Family Relationships and author of Peace Amidst the Mayhem. Together we unpack why conflict isn’t the enemy, our reactions are, and how a few grounded choices can turn friction into connection, especially with kids.

In this episode you will learn,

  1. Why conflict isn’t the enemy and how to reframe disagreements 
  2. How to regulate emotions during conflict and still show up authentically
  3. Marielle’s High 5 Framework - a simple, practical tool to stay grounded, compassionate and clear during disagreements

Ready to trade closed doors for closeness? Follow the show, share this episode with a friend who needs it, and leave a quick review so more moms can find these tools. Tell us or tag on us social: what is your biggest takeaway?

You can learn more about Marielle and connect further at:

  • https://yourefr.com/
  • https://instagram.com/extraordinary.relationships

We’d love to hear your feedback! Send us a text

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SPEAKER_00:

You are listening to the Rockstar Mom, a podcast for high achievers who are ready to get off of autopilot and live a life with more intention, peace of mind, and happiness. This is a space to expand, dig deep, get clear, and take action towards living your most authentic, aligned life. I'm Megan Caldwell. As a mom of three, two-time burnout survivor, and empowerment coach and speaker, I've cracked the code on what it actually takes to thrive at work and home. Ditch perfectionism and people pleasing. Get your schedule under control, and live with more ease. So you've got more time and energy to do the things you love without the mom guilt. It's time to get out of your head and into action. Now is the time to live your most rock star life. Let's go. Welcome back, my friends. Today I have a really special guest for you. We are going to be talking about relationships and conflict. I'm really excited to welcome here to the Rockstar mom, Marielle Melling. During a crazy season of life, Marielle found peace by radically prioritizing deep relationships. Now she helps parents get on the same page as their kids so they can exchange closed doors and battles for closeness and cooperation, and everyone wins. Marielle uses her degree in health education, genuine care, and relatable teaching style to transform family relationships from ordinary to extraordinary. She's the founder of Extraordinary Family Relationships and the Mom Spot membership and the author of Peace Amidst the Mayhem and the Butt Book, B-U-T. As a mom of five and her own best guinea pig, Marielle is committed to lifelong learning and doing life on purpose. Marielle, I'm thrilled to have you here. Thanks so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you for inviting me. I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, I'm so excited for our conversation today about relationships, about conflict. I think it's something that all of our rockstar moms can really relate to. I'm just curious, what really makes you so passionate and lights you up about the work that you're doing in this space today?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it started long ago with my own life. And I was in a really crazy season with little kids, lots of little kids, and juggling for part-time jobs. And my husband was working really insane hours for our family. So he was not around much. And so everything was on me. And during this time, I had this like sudden realization that I loved my life. With all the craziness, like what should be insane from the outside. Inside what I was experiencing was incredible. I loved it. I felt so much peace. And in that same realization was like, this is a gift that's not just meant for me. That I need to share these mindsets and these routines and these things that have helped me reach this point where I absolutely love my parenting life. And so it started with that desire to help other parents feel peace and love and connection and confidence and all those things that we want that sometimes the realities of everyday parenting life kind of like put a wrench in all of those things. So that's where it started. I love the work that I get to do today. Lots of one-on-one interacting with families and really connecting and helping us transform the way that we interact as a family.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, I love this so much. And this whole concept of connection, we know that that is one of the top human desires. And when we feel that sense of connection with others, whether it be loved ones or with our clients or with random strangers in the grocery store line, it helps make us feel more alive. And I also know kind of the juxtaposition to that is this whole concept of conflict, is that it's not just easy to have connection. And I've had this conversation with my own partner many, many times, is like there's often conflict in this. Why is conflict? I was gonna say, I don't know, even if this is a great question, but why is conflict so hard? Why is it something that is such a challenge for so many of us?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I think that is a great question. And I think it also depends a lot on your upbringing. So, as we'll probably dive into today, conflict isn't really the problem. It's the way that we handle conflict. However, that being said, a lot of us were raised in a way where conflict, if we disagreed with our parents, for example, that was felt like it was a bad thing. Like you're not supposed to do that, right? Children seen and not heard. We see examples of conflict being handled really poorly, whether it's through as as drastic as violence or, you know, shutting the door and silent treatment or all these things where conflict seems to be the root of disconnection, where it doesn't have to be. So I think we have a lot of fears and we have a lot of lived experience around conflict being problematic, right? And so because we don't really know how to handle it, it is hard. And we kind of are afraid of it. And oftentimes we will do all we can to maintain a peace, even if that peace is at cost, like where people are pleasing or doing something where conflict would be healthier.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think that so many listeners in our audience can relate to that, where it's like, I'd rather just avoid the conflict so I don't have to deal with it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

And again, so much of it, as as you said, stems from conditioning and upbringing and societal pressures that have made many of us women people pleasers, wanting to again avoid and just keep the peace, make things happy. I was also thinking of kind of the whole like good good girl mentality. How do I just how do I just remain a good girl here? But I love and I just want to repeat back is like that conflict actually isn't the problem, right? Conflict is going to be a part of everyday life because each of us are our own humans. We have our own opinions, we have our own desires, but it is the way that we handle it. So I was just on a client call the other day, and we were talking exactly through this, where she's like, I wanted to, I wanted to share with my husband that I was feeling like that what he was saying was kind of aggressive. And then I said something and then he responded back, and then I shut down. It's like, how do we stay calm and almost like aligned enough, I guess, to have those conversations when we feel that conflict arising?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I love to teach kind of an overall mindset shift and then five things that help us in the moment. And they're not necessarily because they overlap. But the first is this mindset shift around conflict. And it is what we just stated that it is not the presence of conflict that's gonna deteriorate our relationships. It is instead how we handle conflict. And we actually see in the research that, like you said, conflict, and just by conflict, I'm gonna say disagreement, right? The way that we handle disagreement.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

At the root what conflict usually is, right? So the way that we handle disagreement, disagreements are present in relationships, and we just need to kind of like take that fact and accept it fully, especially with our children. I think it's easier to see, okay, with my grown adult, like spouse or partner here, like, yeah, we're different people, we're gonna disagree. That makes sense. But for some reason with our kids, we kind of expect there to be this whole alignment of thinking at all times. And if not, something about that feels dangerous or uncomfortable or something like that. But if we can say instead, hey, look, we are a team, and a team by definition is different people with different responsibilities and different personalities on the same side. Right. So we just accept this fact that we are gonna disagree about things, we are gonna handle things differently, and that's not a problem. Instead, it actually becomes an opportunity for deeper bonding. And that is the mindset that this is an opportunity for us to appreciate each other more, for us to understand each other better. But for us, we see in the research that when we are going through a hard time, when we are feeling not at our best, and we see those people who stick with us and stand up for us and are still on our side, that's the people we can trust. And so we actually, in our hardest times, often find stronger relationships. So that overall mindset shift is to say, okay, instead of being afraid of this conflict, I want to see this as an opportunity to connect.

SPEAKER_00:

I love that perspective shift. I often will refer to it as a reframe or as you call it, like a mindset shift is like if we go in thinking that conflict is quote unquote bad, we could have a whole nother conversation about classifying things as good or bad. But if we look at it as actually an opportunity, and I think it's almost giving ourselves permission and shifting the expectation that conflict is actually a part of all relationships. Yes. And again, oftentimes we'll like think about it in terms of all healthy relationships. Yes. And I can think back to, I've been with my husband for 20 years. We got together when we were very, very young. And I remember one of the very first years in our relationship, he was like, Megan, we're gonna fight. Like, we are gonna have disagreements. And I literally was like, No, that's uncomfortable. I don't want to fight. And so there were years in our relationship where I shut down, where I didn't articulate, where I would not lean into the conflict. And now, thank goodness to my own journey and the work that I've done in conjunction with coaches and therapists, like I am able to actually stand up and be assertive in communication. And it is actually sometimes after those fights where we feel deeper connection. So I love that you bring that up and like invite our listeners to really lean into our life is made up of the stories we tell ourselves. So if we tell ourselves a story that conflict is bad, we're gonna find ways to make it bad. If we say this is actually a normal part of the human experience, how do I move through and learn from it? Brilliant. Okay. You said that there were kind of five things that you can do to kind of help move through. What are those?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. So I refer to them as high five and I remember them by our hand. And so the thing I love about this framework is that it helps us in the moment of conflict and then also encompasses what we need to do in the big picture to strengthen our relationships. So we use it both ways. The first one's the thumb actions, and that is that thumb just pointing back at yourself. And that is coming to, in that moment of conflict, take a deep breath and recognize what am I actually feeling right now? What am I experiencing right now? What do I care about right now? Giving yourself that mindful moment to check in and offer self-compassion. And then over time, you're gonna understand what are my triggers, what are my desires, where am I coming from, what kind of person do I want to be? You're gonna put some effort into that personal development, but in that moment of conflict, it's checking in and offering self-compassion.

SPEAKER_00:

I love that that is your kind of first the thumb. It's pointing it back at yourself, is is I think oftentimes, and again, nothing against any of us as humans, is we'll like point. And so I'm curious as to what the pointer is, we'll get there. And blame versus like there is so much power in taking back our power and truly getting to know ourselves best. So, yes to self-compassion, yes to checking in.

SPEAKER_01:

And to recognizing that, like you said, it is so we have these, and this is going to be overlapping the first and second points here, but as humans, we have these dual needs. And paramount is the need for connection. And we actually know that healthy relationships are the number one predictor of both health and happiness, right? So we need these strong relationships. We are wired for connection from birds. We are dependent and we're wired to connect with our caregivers. That need doesn't go away as we get older. So we have this need for connection.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep.

SPEAKER_01:

We also have a need to be ourselves. We have a need to feel like we have purpose, to feel like we have meaning, to feel that we are seen, that we are known. And the relationship myth that I often see is that the more I do for somebody else, the more I give away of myself, that's going to build a strong relationship. Whereas the strongest relationships are two people standing in their strengths and choosing to be in relationship. And so it's moving away from that sense, you know, when we're a child and it's really just wired into us to connect. Instead, it's stepping into who am I? How can I be fully me? And now I'm choosing to be in relationship with you, with this other person who's choosing to be fully them. So giving of ourselves is not forgetting ourselves, it's not burying ourselves, it's not ignoring our desires and our wants and our feelings. Instead, it's being that strongest version of ourselves and recognizing where are my strengths, where are my weaknesses, how can I use these to help this other person? It's not self-ish, but it is a true understanding and a real connection with ourselves as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's like that whole law of attraction. Like we're going to attract the things that we are most in tune with. So when we can connect best with ourselves, it allows us to connect better with others. Makes sense to me. I love that so much. What are some of these other steps?

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Number two is pointing the finger and to put blame, but to understand who is this other person, what are they experiencing, what's going on with them. And then importantly, helping them feel around me, it is safe to be you. Because that is that dual need. And in a healthy relationship, we have both of those. In unhealthy relationships, we suppress ourselves in order to connect. But in a healthy relationship, we both get to be seen and heard and understood and valued and centered. And so our goal in the conflict, especially as adults and as, you know, being here, we want to be intentional, we want to do life on purpose. We're trying to do this work. So it is really, really powerful if you can listen first, if you can say wholeheartedly, I want to understand what you are feeling right now. I want to understand where do you stand on this? What is important to you about this? And then you're validating, you're kind of echoing back to show, look, it I am hearing you, I'm understanding you, and your position is valid. It is safe for you to be you. And that includes all of the hard emotions, all of the hard things that might come up, especially with our kids who don't necessarily have emotional regulation skills yet. And part of our role as parents is helping them gain that. It's being willing to step back a moment and again check in with myself and go, okay, this is not personal. If this person is like right control or something, right? This is their trying to figure out this thing. They're trying to get their needs met. So I can take that deep breath, find my center, find my call, and then show up in that rate that is a safe place for this other person. So that's the second one is really understanding the other person where they're coming from, and it is safe to be you.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I think especially as we think to our kids, is really again, it's like almost taking the bird's eye view back to remind ourselves, like, yes, I am me. I have my own opinions, I have my own lived experiences. And these kids are actually their own unique beings. I think oftentimes we find so much like attachment to like and pressure to feel like we're raising them correctly and doing all the right things. And it's like, at the end of the day, we actually can't control these little beings. We are here to help and guide them. And so by being able to truly give them the space for them to express what they need. And again, sometimes it might look ugly or be with emotion, and that's okay. Then we can better serve. So awesome.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Okay, the third one is the middle finger, and that is the tallest finger, finger in the center. We're redefining the middle finger, and it's really helping us remember what matters most. And it's getting down in the heart of that moment to say, you know what, we are going to disagree about things, but at the end of the day, it's our relationship. And so one tool, practical tool that I teach around this is what I call the butt mindfulness technique.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Always said when we were growing up, she said, but stands for bottom underlying truth.

SPEAKER_02:

So yes.

SPEAKER_01:

So with this, we take that moment, that mindful moment. Again, when we're checking it with ourselves, we feel what we are feeling, we name that emotion, we take some deep breaths. And then that's first step. Second is we find our butt, right? So I am feeling totally frustrated because my kids are not listening. I'm feeling totally frustrating because I already talked about this with my spouse, and now they're doing exactly what I was hoping they wouldn't do, whatever it is. Right. And then, but my bottom underlying truth is what matters to me is our relationship, or I want to be patient, or whatever that is for you, whatever your bottom underlying truth is. Like we have lots of things we care about, and what do you care about most? So finding that in that moment is incredibly empowering and really helps us find this big picture perspective that helps us day to day manage these little conflicts, and then also in the big picture, find big picture solutions. So we're finding that bottom underlying truth for ourselves. And then we get to follow that up with therefore, this is my intentional choice. I'm going to take a break. Now is not the time to handle this conflict, or I'm going to lean in. I'm going to be present, or I'm going to hold my boundary. And I'm going to say, I don't feel like being spoken to like this, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

That holding healthy boundaries is healthy for healthy relationships. So we're finding that in the moment, finding that perspective, this relationship matters. And this is what's going to help us have a healthy relationship.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh my goodness. I love this so much, Marielle. This whole butt concept. And again, as I read your bio, I giggled because it's fine. But it is just a I know I love it. Uh BT. Yes, yes. One of the reasons I do the work that I do helping women live their most rock star lives is because I truly believe that when we as women learn to care for ourselves best, it has this ripple effect into our families, into our communities, into our other relationships. And I'm curious now that you've outlined kind of this butt tool for us, is this something that you would actually articulate with your children? Like, do they know what the butt thing is? Because I just I find it so again, I think for my kids, too in particular, my boys are gonna like giggle at it.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, talked about the bodacious butts. I mean, we go. You've gone deep.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, okay, so that's something you would definitely recommend because I think again, that alone can bring even deeper connection and help us see through the conflict, is just like remembering we each kind of have our underlying truths and desires. And when we can hold true to those and live in alignment with those and take what I call value-aligned action, then we'll all be happier, right? Not happy all the time, but like when we go back those roots.

SPEAKER_01:

So yeah, and it really is a healthy way to address conflict, right? Because you're not ignoring it, you're not suppressing it. And we know when you ignore and suppress, especially emotions, whether it's jealousy or fear or anger or any of those, it's not healthy. It's a healthy healthy emotionally, it actually comes back bigger and stronger down the road. So it's really healthy to take it in those three steps where you are really paying attention to yourself and figure out what's actually going on right now. What do I care about in this moment? What am I feeling in this moment? And then finding that perspective and making a choice around that. Rather than trying to suppress it or ignore it, you're partnering with your personal experience and really still being intentional in that. So it's actually a really, I mean, it's pretty simple three steps, but it's a really profound way to address life.

SPEAKER_00:

Totally. And I appreciate that so much because I think thinking to our listeners here who are high achievers, who tend to be overthinkers, who tend to be perfectionists or recovering perfectionists, is sometimes we just really need to peel back and keep it simple, right? We all know the acronym KISS. Keep it simple, stupid. And like this is by no means stupid, but like this is a simple way. To think about reframing conflict and how to actually move through these, what can be really sticky conversations or situations. And so I love the simplicity behind this model.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And it can't be tricky if you are not used to doing it, right? If you are not used to being mindful, if you're not used to listening to yourself, if you are not used to digging in and self-reflecting and saying, okay, what do I care about in this moment? Because sometimes it's uncomfortable, right? Sometimes I care about getting revenge. Sometimes I care about praise. Sometimes I care about these things that are not all perfect. And yet there's a real strength that comes from being willing to get to know your real self and then saying that doesn't define me. That experience doesn't define me. It gets to define me. Therefore, this is what I'm going to do. And it's very freeing when you get to this point. And it also becomes easier. The more you do it, the easier it is to find your values and to fight your bottom underlying truth, even in these heated moments of conflict.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. That's such a great point to kind of just reiterate for those in the back who maybe didn't hear is that this takes practice. This isn't a, okay, now I have the tool and I figured it out. And again, that lends itself to the all or nothing approach and mindset rather of just I'm going to do it and I'm going to do it right. Perfectionism right there. Or it's like, this is an opportunity. This is a tool. This is going to take practice. The way that this works with one of my children versus another, versus my spouse versus my colleague. But I do know for a fact, and I hear you agree here, is that the more that we take action, one of my favorite sayings is action creates clarity. Is so we try it out to find out what works for us in different situations, different individuals. And that's really, really powerful. And that's what this the living your rock star life is all about is getting into action, not just listening and feeling inspired, but we've got some great tools here to actually take you're you're gonna like influence outwards as well.

SPEAKER_01:

So like my kids will go, oh, mom's doing her deep breathing. Like that's what I do in my moment of finding my butt is I take that deep breath and I okay, what matters right now, right? And and you're going to start showing up in a way that's more aligned and that is again treating this light that you want, and it's gonna bless and influence and help your kids and your and everybody else that's within your sphere. It has this kind of ripple effect.

SPEAKER_00:

They are little sponges, and we know for a fact we can tell them whatever we want, but they are gonna model what we do. And so as they see us practicing this, similar in my household, where I will take those couple deep breaths, or I'll say, I'm gonna go just take a quick break and I will be back to re-ask this question, giving ourselves permission to take what we need in the moment. So, so good. Okay, Marielle, did we make it through all five fingers? We had two more.

SPEAKER_01:

I'll make it.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, I was I was like, I think, I think the butt. No, no, no, this is great. This is great. We could talk all day. Like the butt was the middle finger, going to the tallest, the most important. What is that that next finger?

SPEAKER_01:

So the ring finger, and this is a stretch every time, but it works for me as you just imagine that Florida's watch rings and it's both fine. And it is really choosing to be present in the discomfort, and then also being wise about when we handle conflict. So the way that emotions work, just like emotions 101, if we have these big giant emotions, we are typically in a fight or flight response. And in fight or flight, the portions of our brain that are active are based on survival. It is not the prefrontal cortex that's based on forward thinking, that's based on goal setting, that's by some logic. So, for example, we all know the classic example of the kid who is crying about the pink plate versus the blue plate at line. Right. And in that moment when the kid is so angry, yeah, it's it's not logical that pink and blue, you're still getting the same plate, right? But the logic parts of the brain are pretty much offline. And so this ring finger reminds us be present in the discomfort. It's okay to have these big emotions. It's okay again to have conflict, and then be wise about am I gonna resolve this conflict right now is now the time. Or do we make intentional time to resolve this once our emotions have settled? And it's really important not to just sweep it under the rug and forget that it never happened, but we do want to come back to it and say, hey, let's talk about what happened with the pink plate, right? Or let's talk about what happened with curfew, or let's talk about what happened. I felt really ignored. It wasn't a time for me to talk about it, but now I'm ready to address this. And then again, it might be kind of uncomfortable when you get to that point that being willing to and being willing to be present and be willing to put the phone away and just be all in on these relationships. That's awesome. Ring finger is the time bonus on time.

SPEAKER_00:

That's great. Such a good reminder that just because it's something that's happening in the moment doesn't mean that that is the best time to actually address it and work through it. I think that you broke down the fight or flight concept there really, really well that sometimes we just actually don't have the logical thinking to be able to move through. One question I have for you that was just coming to mind in terms of some of my own personal experiences with my own children is when children are in those big emotions, what is your tip or best way to deal with them? My thought is to validate what else you can share with our audience? Is there something more than that? Do we want to help bring them down? Do we let them just kind of like let it all out? What are your thoughts there? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So we already touched on actually the thumb and the point of finger. And those are actually the first things that we can do because for especially our children who we have this relationship and connection with, co-regulation is really, really powerful regulation technique for all of us. So if I am checking in with myself, if I'm taking my deep breathing, if I'm offering self-compassion and I am in this call space where I know it's okay to experience these big emotions. I'm here for you. That is going to have a remarkable impact. So again, if they're in that fight or flight, remember they are sensing things through the part of their brain that senses things like tone of voice, energy, and the physical touch, things like that, not so much words. So we can say words, but it's really how we say the words that are gonna influence and impact our kids. So self-regulate, and then you named it, validating that emotion. So an emotion is it's fascinating that we often can't describe what an emotion is, but I like think of an emotion as it is a message from your brain about what your brain thinks is going on.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Your brain is encapsulated in the school, and how does it communicate with us is through emotion. So if I am feeling sad, my brain thinks I've lost something important. If I'm feeling excited, my brain thinks something cool is about to happen. If I'm scared, my brain thinks something dangerous is going on. And so one of the most important things that we can do for that message is to receive it, is to say, hey, I got it. Okay. And so by naming the emotion, that is a huge naming and validating it, saying, It seems like you feel really frustrated, right? And they can say, Yeah. Or they can say, No, I am mad, right? Like you're on the track when your four-year-old is like, no, this is how I'm feeling.

SPEAKER_00:

And yeah, and letting them mad right now, right?

SPEAKER_01:

So validating it and naming it is a huge step in helping them recognize it. And in that is this whole idea as well that the the emotion is not the problem. It is good for us to have emotions. All emotions are welcome, are healthy, are useful. They are messages from our brain. So we're saying, hey, I've got this message. Thank you. And that happens through through these things that we're talking about, right? Validating, being regulated, being calm, naming it. And then as far as regulating, you can think of it as a boiling pot of water. And so when we turn off the stove, that pot of water doesn't instantly drop to cool, right? And some of the kids are near boiling all the time. We have different temperaments.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep.

SPEAKER_01:

But it takes an amount of time for that emotion, it's a chemical reaction, a full body reaction. It takes an amount of time for that emotion to subside for things, the sympathetic nervous system to come back in, all those kind of things, right? So the goal is to find a way to help be in that emotion that's aligned with their values. So they're not going to do something like that. And what works for your kid, but examples are deep breathing is one of the easiest, most accessible ways to regulate emotions. And so for a younger kid, you can talk about like candle breathing, like blow out the candles. It's especially the exhale that helps us. Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

So slowing it down.

SPEAKER_01:

Other kids like the we call it starfish breathing. So they trace their hand, and as they go up a finger, breathe in, and as they go down a finger, they breathe out. And that tactile punch and focus on the fingers combined with the breathing can be really calming for some kids. Some kids want to go in a calming corner where they can hug a step down a little or relax. Other kids move in for a walk. Some kids a hug. I have one kid who a hug is it is magic, right? That positive, like you're safe feeling. It's okay, come back, like all of that. Just no words, just a hug. We'll just say, hug it out. You know, other kids are gonna not want to feel don't touch me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So it takes a little bit of experimentation. But if you can like internalize this idea that the emotion is not a problem, which we don't do a great job as a society teaching that. So it might take a little bit.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I was gonna say, Marielle, that like this is so good. One in terms of us having tools to help support our children. But what I'm also thinking back to is these are such amazing tools for us, even as grown women, for decades have been taught to suppress our emotions and don't share and don't speak up. Is I loved like the first piece of this here is just to name it and validate it. And as we do so, it's just such a great reminder that that doesn't define you. Just because you're really angry doesn't mean that you're an angry person who lives in that state. It's it's a similar way that I that I work with clients and helping them shift their perspective. That just because you deal with anxiety or ADHD, those don't define you. But if we acknowledge them, we can learn to accept them, validate them, and and move through them, similar to the emotions here. So powerful. I've taken away some tools for myself and I think it's valuable for us to think too.

SPEAKER_01:

Like, what is anger? At its core, anger is this something is not right. Right. Something is not right. And so there is, there is very, very healthy anger. And if we never experience anger, if we never have this feeling that things aren't right, it's gotta be really hard for us to stand up and to have a positive impact and to protect our children and to make a difference because there are wrong things in the world, right? And so yeah, I think a lot of us grew up with the idea of, you know, don't be angry, like anger is bad. It's not anger is bad. It's what you do with your anger, right? Like right, simple that anger and go make a positive difference, or do you use that anger and lash out and do things that you regret? So going back again, just reiterating because it's so important, all emotions are good, all emotions are valuable.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

In listening to those, you also get to say, hey, I'm angry about this thing, and that's a good thing. I should be angry about this. Or you get to say, I'm an adult, and I get to say, you know what, I'm angry about this thing, and I don't want to be angry about this thing. So what underlying belief is going on here? What underlying thing happened to me, or what underlying thing, what story am I telling myself? There's all kinds of, I mean, I don't know how deep we want to go into that, but it's not the anger, right? It's the it's it's the deeper belief. It's the deeper thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Maybe we'll have a follow-up conversation another time about this because there's so many different directions we can go. I love this so much, but just yeah, all emotions can be valuable, valuable. And I've heard the saying, I don't know if it was Brene Brown or somebody else, where it's like, in order to experience the highest levels of joy and love, we actually have to allow ourselves to experience the other end of the spectrum of whether it be anger or sadness or grief, right? Is like that allows us the full human experience versus the box that we were taught to be in, which is like, don't, nope, don't feel that way. Yeah, which then doesn't allow us to feel the other end of the spectrum of extreme joy and happiness and fulfillment, which I know is so much of what our audience desires.

SPEAKER_01:

So when we numb out the hard stuff, we numb out the good stuff too.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, I might quote you on that one. All right. I think we made it to the ring finger as we were talking about time. What's that last one? The pinky pinky.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, this is already to keep it light, to keep it in perspective. We love each other, we have a great relationship, we disagree, great. We're gonna have fun together. We're gonna do other things. We're not gonna let this one disagreement take over. We're gonna especially like we all need play, but little kids so often like we can play our way out of so much and just recognize like this is just one more piece in their building block. I don't need to exaggerate what this means about them or about our relationship. And so that is the pinky, it's a playful pinky, and just to keep it fun, keep it light, make your relationship a place where you both want to be.

SPEAKER_00:

I love that. That's so in line with frameworks that I use in terms of the fact that play and fun, they have to be a part of what we are and who we are and how we live. Otherwise, what's life for? Just taking ourselves so seriously all the time. And again, I think as high achievers, we do do that for so long that we forget the importance of play and how to actually start to weave that in. Is it you don't have to go play a pickup game with with your kids outside? It could be how can I make this kind of uncomfortable conflict situation a little bit more playful, you know, by making a funny joke or giggling.

SPEAKER_01:

Don't take yourself so seriously, right? Be you willing to say, Hey, I totally messed up on that one. Let's do a do-over.

SPEAKER_00:

Let's move on. Oh, Marielle, this is so good. I love that you have completely laid out kind of your five-finger process here in terms of working through conflict with loved ones. And I'm sure these can translate into other situations, plus such as in the work environment or again, with an angry cashier at checkout or whatever it might be. One other question I want to ask you before we wrap up is just when we find ourselves in a cycle of conflict, because this is something that we're just bringing awareness to. I always say that awareness is the first step of change, right? Where we're recognizing, okay, the way that I'm doing conflict right now with loved ones is not how I want to do. What would you say is like, how do we start to get out of that cycle of contention?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. That's such a great question. So, what we kind of talked about today is like in the moment, how am I going to handle this? And then also in big picture, how can I strengthen my relationship? And it is those type of things it comes back to. So when we're looking at patterns, it is helpful to say, okay, like really pinpoint what is the pattern? What is it that I don't like about this? Am I consistently, you know, are we getting into conflict around the same topics, right? Are we contentious around the same topics? Is it a certain time of day? Sometimes with our younger kids, we see that, especially, or with a teenager, somebody who'd come, you know, they're coming home tired from school and laying and on right then that we notice. So the place to start, I think, is to look for what is the pattern and what is really going on. And then we have a lot is from there, it really depends, right? We have different kinds of treatment plans for different prognoses. Totally, totally. But in general, we want to look at the root, right? So just with the after school example, if they're in conflict because they're tired, well, then we want to help us not be tired, right? We want to meet that need of right rest and then go into things. If the conflict is consistently over these little things where I feel ignored, and the root is therefore I am not feeling valued in this relationship. Then we're gonna need to go into. So we have like our conflict resolution 101 is to really get clear on like what's the problem and what do I want, and then take that into a conversation where we're willing to listen first. Gottman has done some incredible work around conflict resolution and really, you know, problem solving as a pair. And the first three minutes, he says to usually predict how that conversation is gonna go. So if you come into a conversation and you say, Hey, I am noticing that I'm feeling really irritated every time this topic comes up. Have you noticed that? Do you feel that? Like again, start with understanding where they are coming from and be brave enough to say, This is what I'm experiencing, and stick with curiosity. I'm wondering if it's because I feel like I'm not being valued in this relationship. And let me tell you, it is it is hard to be that vulnerable. It is hard to be that honest, but in that vulnerability and in that honesty, you are opening the door for an incredible amount of connection, whether it's with your child or your partner or a coworker or whoever it is. Again, Brene Brown is excellent on vulnerability. You know, like this is we fear that this is going to hurt our relationships. But the reality is we all want that. We all want to be seen and we all want to know who people really are. Like, who is this person that I'm really hanging out with? And so if you are willing to offer that vulnerability first, it opens and kind of invites somebody else to do the same. And we often find that it's rewarded with love and compassion. And if not, we get to go into other things. But the fear that we have that, you know, they're gonna think I'm weak, they're gonna laugh at me is typically not what happens, especially with people who want to be in relationship with each other.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And it is just taking that first step and giving it a go and also recognizing when we are wanting change, it is going to be uncomfortable. Because as you shared, like our brains are wired to keep us safe. Meaning, even if we want and desire change and it's for the better, it doesn't mean that it's gonna be easy. But I think, you know, I just want to reiterate to our audience here is that like my friends, you have within you everything you need, and you have the power to take these first steps to get to know yourself best, which is gonna allow you to deepen these relationships that so many of us desire. So Marielle, this was absolutely phenomenal. You have provided so many tips, your frameworks, your high-five framework, your butt tool. I love it all. Well, before we sign off, do you have any final thoughts for our listeners today?

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. I would just say to recognize that you being here and you listening to this and being that kind of person is incredibly valuable for you and for your family. And it is often, we don't often see right away the fruits of our labors. We don't always see the effects of our efforts. But I will tell it to you and hope that you hear it in the moment that you need it. Your work matters and you're doing great work. You're doing, I'm sure, better than you think you are. And keep at it because it is a benefit to you and to everybody around you.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you so much for that, Marielle. So thrilled that you were here with us on the Rockstar Mom. Thank you. Thank you so much for tuning into the Rockstar Mom podcast. If today's episode resonated with you, here's how we can keep This momentum is going. First, be sure to subscribe to the show so you never miss an episode. Next, I'd be so grateful if you took a moment to leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts. Your feedback helps us reach even more women who are ready to live more intentional, fun-filled lives. Lastly, please share your insights on social media and be sure to tag me at Megan Caldwell PDX so we can connect and inspire other rock stars to live their best lives too. Again, I am so glad that you are here, and I'll see you next time.