The Strength Catalyst

What Built It Won’t Sustain It: Growing Beyond the Founder Role

• Colleen Boselli • Season 1 • Episode 9

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0:00 | 43:51

Sue May, founder and Executive Director of Love & Cornbread, joins Colleen for a candid conversation about building an organization from the ground up — and the shift required as it grows. What began as a simple act of service has evolved into a complex operation with employees, structure, and new demands on Sue as a leader.

As she reflects on this next phase, Sue shares the challenge of moving from doing everything herself to succeeding through others — learning when to step back, how to build the right structure, and how to use her strengths differently. This episode explores the tension between building and sustaining, and what it takes to evolve alongside your own organization.

Episode Show Notes

SPEAKER_00

Hello and welcome to the Strength Catalyst. I'm your host, Colleen Baselli. This podcast explores real challenges that nonprofit leaders are navigating right now and how they can use their strengths to move forward with more clarity and confidence. Today's guest is the founder of an organization that grew really quickly from a simple act of service that she undertook into a much more complex operation. She came into our conversation trying to think through what it means to shift from doing everything herself to building a team. And she wanted to consider how her role needs to evolve as the organization grows. So if you've ever built something and then realize you need to lead it differently than you started, this conversation will give you a practical way to think about that. So let's get into it. And I'm very eager to learn about your mission and about your insights and your opportunities as a leader. We'll talk about those. So, uh, as the founder and the executive director of Love and Cornbread, you built something from the ground up, and that's taken a very particular kind of unique energy and your own special mix of strengths. But before we talk about the chapter that you and your organization are stepping into now, can you take us back to the beginning and tell us what did you build?

SPEAKER_01

Sure. Thank you so much for having me. I'm always excited to talk about loving cornbread. And it's not as often that I get to talk about my role within it and be self-reflective and self-critical in a positive sense. So thank you for this opportunity. What we have built is a 501 organization that started in 2020 with a simple act of sharing food on the streets of West Baltimore with people in need that has now grown over the course of six years to still a 501, but now a very different organization that is driven by a social enterprise engine. We sell our own cornbread mix, hence Love and Cornbread, cornbread mix, natural connection, and we uh use that revenue to fund our core programs that feed children, seniors, people in need in Baltimore City. So we're doing the same work of service, but we've really changed the way that we fund it, uh talk about it, and even conceptualize our existence as a nonprofit organization.

SPEAKER_00

Very interesting. I'd also love for you to share with the listeners like why did you feel called to build love and cornbread or start out, you know, with the cornbread from the beginning? What was it that called you to do this?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, I think there's I think what called me to the cornbread, the cornbread specifically, is I grew up with a mom who was a fantastic scratch cook, came from Memphis, and food was her love language. And cornbread was always kind of the little love tap, the little extra. And she and I uh we both seem to love it a little more than everybody. And it it always has represented to me sort of that little something extra that the cook does to show they love you. So that that message of cornbread has kind of always had a personal meaning for me. The moment where I decided that my beloved city of Baltimore needed some cornbread was really the outgrowth of sort of an unintentional pause that I took during the pandemic. Many, many, many of us used that downtime, whether we wanted to or not, during the pandemic, and had a moment to reflect a little bit and try something different or step out of routines or patterns that we'd been in in sort of the non-pandemic life. I felt compelled during that period of time, which was following the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis and a real moment of what we called at the time racial reconciliation across the country. I felt compelled to put my feet on the ground in a part of Baltimore that had high need and that I didn't typically traverse in my daily life. And it was simply sort of a one-time moment for me. Personally, I was nearing my 50th birthday, and I just thought I need to show up, show some love for the world rather than sit here and stew. And so it was really intended to be a one-time gesture. I didn't plan for it to become what it became.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for sharing that backstory. It's so impressive that you have not only that you did, you that you identified this need and you decided to try and find a way to solve it, but that you have presumably shifted your life, uh, or at least your career anyway, to be putting all of your energies or many of your energies uh into this endeavor. So I'm hopeful in this conversation that we can do a little bit of live coaching and figure out how you can evolve as the organization has evolved. And in advance of our conversation, Sue sent me some notes. Um, one of the things you said was, I'm now responsible for seeing my own blind spots. And I thought that was so interesting because you know they wouldn't be called blind spots if they were easy to see. And so much of the time we really need other people to help point those out to us. Um, you said, I now have to succeed through others rather than run a solo operation, which is, you know, obviously where you started. And you also said the other thing that caught my eye and I wanted to just put back on the table is that you find that you need to find a new set of leadership principles for this new phase that love and cornbread uh is now in. As I was thinking about that as a strengths coach, I know that strengths that build something are not always the strengths that sustain something, or maybe think about it as the strengths that got you here might not be the same exact strengths that are gonna get you to there, or that might be. So I'm wondering, you know, as you thought about those reflections and you wrote them down and offered them to me, I'm wondering if there were any moments in time when you realized that solo entrepreneur approach and that chapter was sort of ending and a new chapter was starting. Was there something that triggered that or some things that triggered that uh observation for you?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, this this conversation comes at a good time because it certainly been on my mind a lot the need to shift my style to the new uh structure of the organization. I would say that I have never wanted to be solo in this. I'm very much a person who is good at building partnerships, who enjoys partnerships. The success of Large Love and Cornbread has a lot to do with our fantastic partners on the, you know, input of resources side, on the volunteer side, on the community partner side. But the thing that has always been me alone is the operational, the administrative, the financial, the fundraising, the we're out of forks, um, we're out of eggs, the taxes. I mean, the list is endless of the operational administrative things that as we grow only got more and more and more complex. And every day I would find myself having to decide between, you know, which am I gonna go to Costco and buy eggs? Or am I gonna try to recruit a board member? I decided about a year ago, I think when I was really starting to burn out and just knew that I couldn't keep doing it alone and I couldn't figure out how to get more people on board who would do those operational things because I eventually figured out those people are called employees. They are not partners, they're not volunteers, they're not friends, they're called employees. You need an employee or a close approximation of an employee to do your finances. You need people who will bear the responsibility for aspects of the organization, and that that has to be in a formal compensated structure. About a year ago, I just decided no matter what, that's where our resources are going to hiring people and making sure that there are roles that are clear and that I would spend the year working to push myself back out of particularly the kitchen responsibilities. When this all started, I did all the cooking and then I recruited volunteers to help cook. And then I had volunteers and one chef in a commercial kitchen. And somehow I was still ordering the cumin and the tortillas and everything else. And I said, we're gonna start with the kitchen. I am investing in a chef who is going to be solely responsible for food in, food out, everything. I am not gonna be doing that anymore. And that proved to be enormously, enormously helpful and freed me up to have all kinds of different conversations, different opportunities. And I just pushed forward and continued to build out the structure from there. So I'm thrilled that now I essentially have six employees, two what I'd call middle managers. One is a culinary director who's over the kitchen operations and all things meal and food related, and one who is my operations manager. And they are over our cornbread mix production, which is growing and changing and requires a lot of specific expertise as well as just hands-on work. So the biggest change in the last few years has been the hiring of those individuals and the hiring of people underneath those individuals to allow us all to focus on what we do well.

SPEAKER_00

And which of your strengths, um, so in preparation for our conversation, you know, you took the strengths profile assessment. So you've got a list of your strengths in front of you. And I'm curious to know which of your strengths have you been using in the last year plus as you've evolved to the scenario where now you have other people carrying some of the burden and doing those jobs well.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, certainly resolver jumps out at me. You know, I I like to identify a problem and start tackling it and get my teeth in it. And I felt that I did that. Uh, improver. I felt sure that I could find a solution to this and I was willing to stick with it until I did. And connector. You know, my my life before love and cornbread was as an executive search consultant in higher education, which is uh basically recruiting and identifying candidates for high-level positions in higher education. And that business is all about networking, identifying talent, matching people to roles, developing roles that are not just a wish list of what one would love someone to do, but actually a coherent uh role that matches both the labor market and the needs of the organization. So, in in uh recruiting people and building that structure, I definitely called on those strengths.

SPEAKER_00

And um, as we acknowledged a few minutes ago, one of the things that you said in terms of a goal for this conversation was thinking about, you want to think about how you could continue or expand your efforts to succeed through others. So, what would that, if you were you know playing that out, um, succeeding through others, what would that look like? And then we can go back and look at your strengths, but tell me like what does succeeding through others now mean, now that you've built the beginnings or maybe, you know, maybe more than the beginnings of the staffing needs that you have.

SPEAKER_01

The mission and the story can no longer be the story of Sumei. It's not, I'm not particularly interested and never have been in it being the story of me, but it particularly must be a story that everyone can own genuinely and connect to in their own way, because that's the only way we're going to be able to continue to reach others in a broader sense. If I'm the only one who has the genuine finger quotes, authentic finger quotes uh experience, then this is all in service to me. But if we have a coherent set of values that everyone connects to differently, that everyone expresses differently in their work, then we have something that can live whether I'm there or not, that has meaning and purpose for the people who work in the organization, whether I'm there or not. You know, I I want my chefs to feel driven by the joy of serving the meaning of what we're doing, but that has to, they have to connect to it in their own way. To me, that's what succeeding through others would look like.

SPEAKER_00

So taking a look at your list of strengths, I'm curious to know which ones could you use.

SPEAKER_01

I think um personalization, recognizing everyone as unique, noticing their differences combined with some persuasion, some emotional awareness, some relationship deepening, and definitely some humor are tools that I could use to help others find their connection and their purpose. I do have a recognition that everyone brings, and I think it comes from my work in executive search, that everyone brings unique strengths and that the unique strengths may or may not uh be an ideal match for a particular role, that people show up differently in different jobs, and that in order for folks to be successful and feel fulfilled in the work, they it has to come from something within them. So rather than, you know, the thing I was most allergic to, and you know, you probably as a coach could have guessed this by looking at my profile. The thing I have always disliked most in any job I've ever had is the mandatory corporate values seminar. You know, I remember working for an enormous company at one time, and you would just have these monthly all hands, and you all had to get in there, get excited, and maybe you get a squeezy stress ball, and you're supposed to leave feeling connected to this mission of selling a million widgets or whatever it is, and that never ever worked for me. I think that's probably some of it is the reaction to that, but I think that it is an individual take on these folks. It's probably awesome narration. I think to be truthful, I think I've probably already used these strengths to the extent I can in this service. The part that would help me do a better job in realizing this goal is probably to tap some of the strengths that I'm not as um conversant. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Like I don't know, listening. Yeah. Well, uh, do you want to talk about listening? Or is there or is there something else that's a strength that as you look at your list there that is appealing to you that you haven't been using in this context, that maybe we could think of ways you could use that particular uh lesser used strength, you know, in this particular context?

SPEAKER_01

I feel like I've been kind of dancing as fast as I can with a lot of these. These all really resonate to me as very true. Um, report builder, resilience, spotlight. I love a spotlight. I do love public speaking. I can't, I can't lie. I do think these are are true for me, and I have used them. And I maybe I'm I may not, maybe there's a strength here that I'm not quite connecting to the task, but I do feel like this era I'm moving into, like I said, is more about me stepping back, me listening more than talking, me observing and being very strategic when I talk, um, creating the structures and trying to. I used to say to my team sometimes uh in my previous work, you have to let it hit the ground. That if you're always rescuing a person, a client, a situation from the consequences of repeated behavior, you're never gonna have the opportunity to address it. Sometimes I see something coming and I think I need to let that hit the ground so that the feedback comes from another source, not me jumping in to say, oh, if you do that, this will be the consequence. You know, it's like kids, right? Let the natural consequence happen so that I'm not always the focal point of it.

SPEAKER_00

What's your perspective on that? Am I you identified resolver early on in our conversation as one of the strains that you really enjoy? So it makes sense that if you're good at and get energy from solving problems, that it would be hard not to jump in and try to solve that problem before it hits the ground. But you have, as you've identified, so many different strains that you get energy from and you're good at. So I wonder if you are trying to pull back a little bit on, let's just take resolver as an example, when you're pulled to do that because it's come so easily to you, because you're energized by it, because it's an action that you can take that sort of solves it more quickly and enables you to move on to the next thing, like you said. But what strength or strengths do you need to use maybe instead of resolver? Yeah. Not only because they're relevant in the situation, but also just let's think about your own, your own leadership um fulfillment, but also because you get energy from that other strength or those other strengths instead. I think curiosity jumps out at me.

SPEAKER_01

Recognizing that others have perspectives and ideas that are maybe 180 degrees different from me that I've never considered before and you know are not things we've historically done. Pausing long enough to really not go. I mean, even as I'm hearing myself say, the important thing is you all have your own way of doing this is still imposing on others, right? Um, having a little more curiosity about how that looks before making any assumptions about what my role should or shouldn't be in it. Being curious about what motivates someone to work with us, what they like about it. I could very quickly reel off for you what I think each person's you know motivating factors are and you know what's going on inside their head, but I'm overconfident about that. I don't know. I could be a lot more curious instead of assuming that I know what's going on. Uh and there's also one up here enabler, creating the conditions for. People to grow and develop for themselves. That's another good one of creating some structure, some humility would also be. Hopefully, I'm demonstrating some humility.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I can I can I can see your humility for sure. Yeah. Maybe actually you don't want to be careful not to overplay that humility and let it get in your way. But tell me a little bit more about Enabler. What would that what might that look like tactically if you were to be for an individual or for a group of people creating even stronger conditions for them to develop? What might that look like next week or next month?

SPEAKER_01

I realize that one of the ways in which I undercut my own ability to delegate or depersonalize or empower others is not having the structure in place to allow others to fully do everything themselves. So when we get to weaknesses, it's going to be adherence to detail, following procedure. You know, I'm the person who doesn't read the directions on the IKEA furniture, right? And it keeps coming back to me and I keep learning in small ways. It used to be I was the only one who experienced the consequence of not having a detailed structure for X. We don't have job descriptions, whatever. That's fine. Um, we don't have performance reviews, whatever. I've got one employee, it's fine. Now we have six employees. Everybody needs a clear job description that was not just created by Chat GPT and slapped into a file to check a box. Everyone needs that. And I have done that. And I am I am proud of myself for that.

SPEAKER_02

And there are benefits to that.

SPEAKER_01

That's not just checking a box anymore. That is important to those individuals. It's important for setting the structure that then I can do. I just had a conversation with my chef the other day about a request that the prep chef had. And I said, that'll be a great conversation for the six-month performance review. And she said, Oh, we have those. And you proudly said, of course we do. In my head, I thought about it. I thought, well, yeah, she needs the six month. The prep chef needs, we all need the six month. I need the, of course. And so realizing that a lot of these detailed compliance things, um, and and I should be clear, we're fully in compliance with you know, it's really I don't like, I don't like reading the details, but I I do them. But realizing that there really are as we grow and the more people involved, these things exist for a reason, and I am not immune.

SPEAKER_00

Right. So are there any structures uh that right now ideally would be in place or that you could um find some strengths to help you put them in place, additional to what you've already done?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, definitely. Um, I did the job descriptions, I did the or chart, that was helpful. You know, again, in my head, it was perfectly clear who reported to who and how and who was equal to who. What's the problem, you know? And then I realized that two people were sort of in conflict because one person thought they were sort of a peer to the other. And I was like, oh, well, this is why you have job descriptions in an orchard, right? So, and again, those are all things that it was in process. It was coming. I was gonna get there. I knew it mattered. But these little real world lessons caused me to speed up. Um, and so I think the next thing on that list is definitely the performance, you know, some sort of six-month check-in, because it is important for the employee as well as for me, as well as for the organization as a whole. So yeah, I mean, it's my my past content. I don't know, I don't know if I can count as a strength, but my past professional experience gives me is a strength that allows me to pull those things together pretty quickly and create that structure. I'm also highly adaptable. I know that one of the complaints from team members in my previous role was I always had a new better idea, which was great, unless you were trying to keep up with me. And I told you last week that I had a new better idea. I had a new better idea, better than that idea. And so let's no, no, no, forget about that one. Oh, you spent the last week working on that. Oh, never mind. We then we got a better one. And if you're of that, if you're of my same temperament, you're good because you weren't working on the details anyway, right? Right. You're like, yeah, cool idea. I'm not touching that, and then you could follow me on that path. But if you were one of my beloved essential team members who was incredibly detailed compliance person who was brilliant at their job and absolutely essential to grounding our team, which was full of big idea extroverts running out and recruiting people, it was super annoying that I was always coming up with these new things. I do have a strong kind of project-based mindset. And this is what I'm trying to do right now. Like it's it's kind of not a thing to start. It's the thing I've been struggling to do, but maybe haven't fully articulated. That I really, again, it's an intention in my head that has not materialized in a way that any other human could recognize it. Uh, I do think that is a good way to think about it, that I put as much drive and commitment into making sure that I am listening and getting feedback and improving as a manager of people that I did into finding, you know, partners and forging relationships externally. Yeah. And I know in those conversations, I was looking at some of the other strengths. Authenticity and compassion usually serve me well in trying to have feedback conversations that I don't know if it's the best way to do it, but when I do end up in a feedback conversation, you know, as much as I try to avoid them because I've not created them and I don't love them. Um, but I know I need to do it. I do usually find that when I can tap into an authentic gear, that conversation goes so much better. You know, whether that's and often, you know, I can think of sp, you know, I can think of like with past employees. I remember a conversation being very, very stuck in feeling like we were talking past each other. I just kind of took a deep breath and and I was definitely listening, but it was not it just wasn't working. And when I took a deep breath and just said, here's how I'm feeling, right? This is this is my heart, right? This this is what is happening. It created a space where I got through and the other person responded with more on the authenticity on their side. I do see that as something that that can be part of project be a a better listening manager.

SPEAKER_00

That was really interesting uh when you said a few minutes ago that you could use the strains that you were that you have been using successfully, that you identified in the beginning of our conversation, improving, resolving, etc., that they grew the organization. And now if you just think about all those the same, I can use those same tools, those same strains that come to me so naturally, but I think about my population of employees now. And my mission is as much to serve the population with love and cornbread as it is to serve the people that are inside my own little house. Um and as you're saying here, you've got those strengths, you've got a compassionate, uh, caring, authentic way. And I'm glad to hear you say that you've had success with that already. And sometimes just taking the time as we're doing now to reflect on what we're prior successes are or have been gives you confidence to say, you know what, huh? That was a strategy or a strength or a skill that I use that could be uh employed again. Um and with a questioning, the curiosity we talked about before, too, that helps with those that blind spot situation where if I'm not noticing something, I'm not seeing something, I need to ask the questions. And even though it's hard for most of us to give feedback, sometimes it holds us back from asking for feedback or fearing that we're gonna make the other person uncomfortable, which also actually reminds me of something. Um years ago, uh, and I've seen it repeatedly, that asking people for feedback is something that tends to cause people to be reluctant. But when you ask them for advice, what advice could you give me? Tends to get people excited because they're feeling like they're gonna offer you some suggestions rather than some criticism. So maybe that's even another way to, or you know, another another tactic to employ when you're using your other strengths and curiosity and you're setting the goals with the drive, you know, around this. I know that you have a set of introspective cards there in front of you that I sent you. Uh, and each of those cards has a different strength on it. And on each card, um, the name of the strength is identified, and then there's a question on one side, a thought-woking question to help you maybe think about using that strength, and the other is an inspirational quote. I wonder what might happen if you were to randomly just pull one. What comes out and reflect on perhaps how that particular strength and either the question or the quote or both are relevant to how you are wanting to evolve your leadership style in the ways we've been talking about, or maybe in an additional way.

SPEAKER_01

I got strategic awareness, and I love that it has a Gilgi Berra quote. If you don't know where you're going, you might wind up someplace else. And the question is, how can I align my daily actions with my larger goals? I feel attacked. Yeah, that's that really goes back to my feeling of when how do I make sure that having the intention to do something is unacceptable? I, you know, sometimes in my own attempts to organize myself or get my priorities sorted out for the day or the week or the month, I think sometimes I absolve myself by saying, I put it on the list. It's on the list, right? Um but how do I make sure that I actually do the thing and don't let writing it down on the list? And something that just occurred to me was having some sort of accountability to somebody else. I mean, talking to you about this is very helpful. And like I said, I I don't like going it alone. And what I do find lonely about what I'm doing is that there really isn't anybody to talk about this with. I I love to brainstorm and problem solve with my employees. Um, but this one I can't take to them. To a limited extent, I can take it to board members. But again, you don't want to reveal every vulnerability to a board member either. Right, right. And they may not have the particular expertise. So yeah, that's something that jumps out at me is how can I make that intention that is in my head or on my to-do list, how do I make that something that other people can see and remind me of or hold me accountable for?

SPEAKER_00

So when when we have an intention, no matter what that might be, whether it's an intention about intentions or intention about anything, right? The best way to from a strengths perspective to address that attention is to find some of your strengths that are going to enable you to solve the problem or to achieve the intention. So tell me, you we talked about quite a few already today, and maybe there's even others. What are three or four strengths that tomorrow you could put in play to help you find the accountability partner or become accountable to yourself to execute these intentions?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I I mean, certainly connector, relationship deepener, eternal improver. Yeah, it occurs to me that there are plenty of other executive directives, directors out there who have similar challenges. And at one time I did actually talk with one of them about having sort of a little monthly get-together of nonprofit leaders, you know, particularly those of us in kind of a food space in Baltimore. There's maybe five or six of us who all kind of loosely know each other, like each other, have similar interests. And that could potentially be a space in which there could be some real mutual support and also a place where I could talk much more openly about, you know, my new project and the thing I am driven about and committed to, which is being the best manager and advocate for the growth and development of my employees that I can be in the same way that I have been to the community and to our partners.

SPEAKER_00

I personally uh love that idea for you. And I say that simply because this podcast wouldn't exist if I didn't have an accountability group. Um, because the way that this whole thing got started was I fell into through a yoga class an opportunity to set some attentions for the year in 2025. There were five or six of us afterwards who decided, oh, we should probably try to check in with each other in two weeks and just see where we are. And we've kept it up every two weeks for the entire 2025 and now into 2026. And it's been for everything from, you know, I want to be a better leader to I want to learn how to make sourdough bread, you know, do I need to be a better mother? Um, but uh, but you know, as you're suggesting, then you have people who are similarly who are in a similar stage of life or similar type of work, and you can support one another and you feel like they understand, they get enough, um, that that their questions or their or their accountability styles or whatever can be useful. So I don't know. For me, it's rewarding.

SPEAKER_01

I love that because I do, you know, I practice yoga, I love yoga, and the idea of setting an intention in yoga is very different, right? It's when I think intention in the context of work, I think something I'm I've gotta do. It's, you know, if I don't do it, it's a failure. It's something that uh is pending, it's heavy, it's weighing on me. But an intention in yoga is free of judgment. It can be small. There's no judgment about what it can be and whether or not you keep to it is okay. You know, the the idea that you're not in the sense that there's no accountability, but that you're going to learn something and grow in some way from it, regardless, right? And I think maybe holding the idea of intention a little more lightly would would be good. That you know, whatever, however you get there, that's helpful because I I I like that reframing.

SPEAKER_00

Fabulous. Good luck with that. All right. I have one last question I really want to ask you before we close, and that is if love and cornbread had its own list of strengths, what would be its the organization's top strength right now?

SPEAKER_01

What what's a synonym for scrappy?

SPEAKER_00

Adaptable.

SPEAKER_01

We love and cornbread has a moral compass. We we really do stick to a clear sense of what we're about, why we do it, and how we do it. And we work hard not to get it distracted in 10 different directions. You know, I spent this morning turning down several requests for service because they just don't, they're wonderful things to do, but they aren't what we do. And so we're not doing them. For sure, compassion. We're all about compassion and we have a lot of pride, you know. I when I see this producing work of the highest standard, very much, I think, one of our strengths that we try to, it comes down to the food you serve in a very pragmatic sense, but we truly do try to cultivate an idea that we're doing something different and we're doing it with compassion, and we're doing it to the very best of our ability.

SPEAKER_00

Beautiful. Well, I'm gonna be sure to put the love and cornbread website in the show notes. Um, and I'm gonna invite all our listeners who um hopefully want to learn more uh about your uh very impressive nonprofit that's serving an important purpose in Baltimore, that they avail themselves of that information. Um and Sue, thank you so much for being um open and vulnerable and eager in this conversation. And I hope it's helpful to you. And I hope that listeners, whether they are whether they are in the nonprofit world or just looking to better themselves, but can benefit from what you shared today. So thank you very much. Thank you for having me. It's such a gift. Thank you. As you listen to Sue today, you may have recognized something familiar. The moment when what helped you build something is no longer what's needed as it grows. What stood out to me is her willingness to step back and rethink her role, to move from solving every problem herself to creating the conditions for others to succeed. And how that requires not new strengths, but a different use of the ones she already has. So whether it's leaning into curiosity, building structure, or creating accountability, she's beginning to shift from doing the work to enabling others to do it well. Thank you, Sue. And in today's show notes, you'll find a link to her nonprofit love and cornbread, uh, a link to the strengths profile assessments you can take it yourself, and a link to the introspective cards, which are a simple way to stay connected to your own strengths each day. So, in closing, thank you for listening to the strength catalyst. And until next time, keep leaning into your strengths and using them wisely.