Emily O'Brien - From Prison to Popcorn: The Story Behind Comeback Snacks

Our guest was a business owner. Driven, entrepreneurial, building her own social media company. Then she met a client and what started as a business relationship led to a vacation in the Caribbean. But when she returned to Canada, she was arrested with 2kg of cocaine strapped to her body.

What followed was a period of her life she never anticipated: a 4-year prison sentence. Behind those walls, with everything stripped away, she came face to face with herself. And she made the choice to rebuild. To rebuild her health, her family, her community, and her life.

Today, her popcorn company is on the shelves of more than 1,300 stores across Canada. And many of the people she hires are walking the same road back that she once walked herself.

This is a conversation about second chances. About rebuilding from the ground up. And about how the hardest chapter of your story can become the foundation for something extraordinary.

#pivotalmoment #prison #popcorn #comeback

Lesley Hawkins is a keynote speaker, leadership strategist, and storyteller who believes growth happens in the everyday moments that define who we become. Drawing on years of experience leading, guiding, and mentoring teams, Lesley brings authenticity, curiousity, and heart to the conversation, as each interaction is an opportunity to define what truly matters.

One question. One turning point. One powerful story. 

To learn more about Lesley: www.lesleyhawkins.ca / www.marsley.ca

@the_lesley_hawkins_podcast

The Lesley Hawkins Podcast is a Marsley Canada production.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Leslie Hawkins Podcast. Each week, my guest and I discuss one pivotal moment in their life, what they learned from it, and their words of wisdom. Our guest was a business owner, driven, entrepreneurial, building her own social media company. Then she met a client, and what started as a business relationship led to a vacation in the Caribbean. But when she returned to Canada, she was arrested with two kilos of cocaine strapped to her body. What followed was a period of her life she never anticipated: a four-year prison sentence. Behind those walls, with everything stripped away, she came face to face with herself. And she made the choice to rebuild, to rebuild her health, her family, her community, and her life. Today, her popcorn company is on the shelves of more than 1,300 stores across Canada. And many of the people she hires are walking the same road back that she once walked herself. This is a conversation about second chances, about rebuilding from the ground up, and about how the hardest chapter of your story can become the foundation for something extraordinary. Welcome to the Leslie Hawkins Podcast. I am so grateful that you are here with us today. Please join me in welcoming today's guest, Emily O'Brien. So Emily is the creator, founder, and CEO of Comeback Snacks, and she has a story that will literally stop you in your tracks. So I am so grateful that you are here with us today. So thanks for joining. Well, thank you for having me. It's awesome. So this podcast is all based on one question, which is what is one pivotal moment in your life? And the reason I chose that question was because we all have multiple pivots, and some we choose and some are imposed on us. And there are ways that people manage through these pivots that I find incredibly fascinating. And how we manage through them shows our level of resiliency, our level of courage. And I wanted to create this platform for people to hear these incredible stories, meet amazing people like you, and just understand that it's they're not the only ones in the world that are maybe going through some of their pivots and their challenges. So that's the premise of this podcast.

unknown 2:44

Perfect.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

So let me kick it right off. First question is what is one pivotal moment in your life, Emily?

SPEAKER_00 2:52

The day that I went to prison. And that was January 16th, 2018. Okay. So tell us a story because that's a bit of a mic drop. Yes. Yeah. Like most people, I never thought my life would end up in prison. I was one of those people that read books about crime and all those things. Um, 2012, 2013, I was living in Toronto. I just came back from a trip abroad. I worked for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. So I did that, yeah, I did the undergrad degree. I graduated with honors, worked abroad. Did the thing I had um I worked some marketing jobs and then someone told me to start my own company, like not told, convinced. Yes. Because I had these like traits in me and the and the creativity. So I went for it. And so I was running my own company in Toronto, a social media company called Gather. And then like things went really like dark with my family. My my parents got a really tough divorce. And I know this is nothing new, but it doesn't make it any easier. No, I know it's very common, doesn't make it easy, doesn't matter who you are.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

And I really struggled with it, quite frankly. And you know, I I had always like had casual drinks, and like there definitely had been some issues with alcohol in the past, but this was more like at the time it was I was drinking like casually, and now when that happened, it went from like celebration to medication.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Yeah, try to numb. Yeah, okay, and just to get through it. And then cocaine use um was definitely there, you know, it was kind of like Botox for the soul. That's what I called it. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Wow, that's a different way of looking at it. And so your life is starting to spiral a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Yeah, definitely spiraled. Okay. But again, like going through university, I we drank. Like I'm not saying I just went from nothing to all of a sudden. It was like there was things it's part of the culture, also when you're the culture, even like pe people doing MDMA. I graduated with honors, you know what I mean? It was but this part I know that I was this I was not in a good place. And I actually met someone through my work who was sober, allegedly, and we we became pretty close. Okay, and not like intimate, like physically intimately close, but like emotionally in intimate. Okay. And he would help me, you know, with really simple things like help me walk my dog. And he was also like a customer of mine, and then like some of his checks started bouncing, but I just kind of I like I didn't they weren't for high amounts, and so I like I was you know, I just kind of ignored it. Yes, but you know, obviously, obviously hindsight, everything's 2020.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

Oh, I know.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Yeah, I never do. Okay. So but it wasn't a relationship in that way. No, no, no, it wasn't like we weren't dating, like no. There's some headlines that that say that, but like every, you know, every column will say different things. But coming from me, it was not that.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

It was not that. Okay. And so how how do you go from there to being in prison?

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Yes, we went on a trip to St. Lucia. At first, he told me we're going to Puerto Rico.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

But then when we get to the airport, the ticket says a completely different place. Oh, yeah. Um, but then he's like, Oh, it must have just been you're drinking, and I saw his personality kind of start to change.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

But I just got on the plane and three days in, the first the trip is totally fine the first three days.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

And then on the third day, he's like, We're actually here to work. Oh. Yeah. Did you really think this is all fun and games? And I get taken to uh a house that looks like an Airbnb or a Ben Breakfast. I'd say not Airbnb, Ben Breakfast. It's like a nice cottage-looking house. Yeah. But instead of like plates and cups in the walls, it's and the cupboards, it's bricks of cocaine. So what? Yeah. And that's when I find out through people there that, you know, he'd already when he booked the tickets, he sent them my information and had told them that I had agreed to bring drugs back for to help settle some debt.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

So no way.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Yeah, by the Friday, I was like strapped up with two kilograms of cocaine to my body. He had it too, and go back to Canada and land and are arrested.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

So Okay, hold on. It's a lot like literally mind-blown. So the first couple of days were fine. Like it was just a nice vacation. It was a nice vacation. And that's how it was presented to you was we're going on a vacation. Yes. Yeah. Okay. And when you realize that, uh oh, I come in deep, like what's your reaction at that point?

SPEAKER_00 7:00

I didn't actually think it was real. I wasn't really afraid yet. You know, I wasn't like, and I only knew him, so I didn't really have a choice but to still be with him at on that trip. I only knew him.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

And you know, I was told other everyone here is in on it, that people have to tell. Like, I was just told a mishmash of information that said basically everyone knows, so don't try to, you know, sabotage it.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

Oh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Yeah. And so you get on the flight, like you must have been freaking out.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

At this point, I was like mad. Yeah. Like the two days after that, I was just pissed.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Um, I said, listen, I'm not a good lawyer. Like I travel around the world and it like I volunteered around the world, and now it's like, Yeah. Like, how did this even happen? I'm actually mad at my really mad at myself, to be honest. And but again, I just wanted to go home. Like, I didn't read the criminal code, I didn't plan this like operation, so I don't really know the consequences of anything, really. Like, I just know that I want to get home safe. Yeah. So that was my goal.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Just go home. Just go home. Yeah. Okay. So you get on the flight, everything's fine getting on the flight. You get off, and you go to go through customs.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

You go through customs. So you go through the first part, and at this part, he doesn't coach me on who I'm supposed to be, you know. And then he said one thing to me when we were still in St. Lucia and he's like, okay, because I was freaking out. He's like, okay, you can when we get to Pearson, take the drugs off you and put them in your backpack. So they were like in a in like a little, they were wrapped in saran wrap. He's like, put them in your backpack and give them to me. And I'll and I'll walk, I'll bring the backpack as my carry-on, you know, and I'll walk through customs with it. So you don't have the money. So I was like, okay, I felt a little bit better. Yeah. You know, and then we get to Pearson, I go to the bathroom and he grabs the back of the bag. He's like, Oh no, it's too late now. So he being switched to me twice. And so at this point, now I'm done. I'm just like pissed. No kidding. But again, like I can't sabotage the operation because I know it'd just be my fault. And so like I'm trying to hide all this additional fury. Yes. Um, and in the middle of an airport when they have all these people like watching, like behind cameras, like not just people on the floor, but people they have yeah, so many banks and banks of it. Yeah, exactly. Right. So obviously, you know, they could, I'm sure they could tell something was wrong. And then we get called into secondary, and um, they ask both of us a series of questions, but separately. And then the final question they asked me, it's like, okay, Miss O'Brien, like, we're gonna do a physical search on you. And then, like, is there anything you want to declare or something like that? And they're like, We are gonna do a physical search. Yeah. And so I said, Yeah. Because I looked him right in the eye. Because he actually had to ask me again because I just looked at the floor for I guess it was too long. Yeah. And I was just thinking, I was like, the best thing to do here is tell the truth. Because I was this your guy didn't protect me. So why should I protect him at this point?

SPEAKER_02 9:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Yeah. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

Okay. I so you say yes, yeah, and then you hand over the the drugs.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Um, so I get put in a holding cell where they first weigh them and test them to see what they are. And then, you know, they confirm, yeah, it is cocaine and the pro the the value, I guess. And so then I'm formally charged by the RCMP. And you know, I I thought I could just go home. I couldn't. No. No, it's not uh you can't just call a friend to bail you out in this kind of situation. So did he he got through? No, he didn't. He got arrested too. Okay, good.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

Yeah. All right. And then so I have no idea what then happens because quite frankly, all I know is what you watch on TV or read in a book. So you don't get to go home. No. And at some point you gotta tell somebody in your family, because I'm sure they're expecting you home.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

They end up calling. Well, I didn't live at home, I lived in Toronto. Oh, right. And my parents were separated, so they weren't really talking. Like it wasn't like I was I was traveling on my own like many years. Like, you know, I didn't tell them about every single trip that I was on. Yes. But they could see like online, like they knew they knew from like social media and stuff, but um so then uh I get taken to the like the local jail. Basically, I have to like appeal. So then I'm the appeal police is like closest to the uh airport, and then I have to go to Vanier over the weekend because my bail hearing is on Monday, and then that's when they actually call the jail calls my parents and are like, Your daughter's been arrested. Yeah, they call both of them, and they actually both came to court on Monday, and that was a very difficult moment having to look at them in shackles.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

What was your parents' reaction?

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Um glad that I was okay, and then it turned into anger and confusion, sadness. But the first one was like a look of relief.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Yes. Yeah, that you're okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

And were you okay? Yeah, I mean, I think I was still it hadn't really occurred to like not occurred, it like I didn't know what was about to happen. I thought like, I didn't know that this is gonna be like the next 10 years of my life. Right. Right? Like I again, I didn't know the system. Like I was like, oh, it everything was so new. Right. So I I wasn't mad then yet because I didn't nothing really had happened.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

You know, I'd been arrested, like I had to go to my mom's house, but like I didn't know, I didn't find out till like a week later that I like I had to move out of my condo in Toronto. I ended up having to give up my dog, you know, my business was in Toronto, so I had to still run it. I could still run it, but not without living in extreme paranoia. And so, and this went on for two and a half years, and then you know, the legal fees and because you don't know anything. So that was the most the worst time for us.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Yes. So what what took all that like so you go to the bail hearing, first of all, on the Monday, you get bail.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Yes, for fifty thousand dollars. And so in Canada, the bail system is set as like a guarantee, like you don't have it's not a cash bail. Okay, so they actually put up part of their house. Meanwhile, they're like trying to get separated. So, like if yes, I mess up and this is taken away, then like it's so it added another lay like layer of of stress, so financial tension. Yes, right? So yeah, there was plenty of tension to need to add. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Okay. Yeah.

unknown 13:03

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Okay. A lot of fights happened, and you know, but because we didn't we didn't know, and it was like frightening, quite frankly, it was frightening.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

Frightening time. Yes. And so those two and a half years, you're out on bail, but you're still waiting to get processed through the system and the the like legal system is that's takes forever and it takes it.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

It took so long, yeah. So I was on house arrest for two and a half years. So I had to have handwritten notes for when I went out and like to work, I could go to work. Um, but I had my own company, so I was able to kind of figure out a solution to like I wasn't allowed to go to the gym, technically on my conditions, but I ended up like finding a client that was a gym, so I could go there and work and work out.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

And work out, okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

So I was able to kind of like be strategic about who I worked with in ways that could actually benefit my mental health as well.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Okay, yes, which is good. Cause your mental health must have been in the world. It was disaster.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

It was sham it was a shambles, yeah, shambles for the first year and a half. And I even like I was like smoking the packaging. I was still drinking, I was like up in my my my room at my mom's house. I was like up in the attic and I would like probably drink like a two six every two days or something like that, you know. Like it it got pretty bad. Um certain certain periods, and then I was it actually the turning point was actually I went out again. Like I went out without a note because I just want to get cigarettes and my lungs are recovered now. Yes. But um I went out and then we live in her house is in uh Hamilton near McMaster University. So it was near Frost week, I guess. So they had more patrol cars out for the cost, and so they pulled me over, and you know, like yeah, there's a note. And then I got to go to jail for another night. My mom bailed me out, my lawyer was like, Emily, we know that like this is a really awful situation, you know, and but we know that you're a good person because of like all the work that you've done in your life, volunteering, like your track record shows it. Yes, but if you mess up again, like there you are, not gonna let you out, and it's gonna be a lot harder to prove your case. Correct. Okay. So that's when I was like, all right, this is it, this is time. And actually spending time with my mom was awesome because you we would look at old family photo albums and be like, oh my god, this is an amazing time, you know. Like that's how who I that's how I had to find out again who I was. Yes, and not just like this criminal on a piece of paper. Okay, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

And so did you did you know at that time that there was a good chance that you would have to go to jail?

SPEAKER_00 15:19

I didn't find out that wasn't until about like a year and a half later. Yeah. And then that's when we knew the amount, and I just pled guilty because I wasn't gonna go to trial. I wasn't gonna testify against these people.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

No.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

And based on the facts that I said I had something on me at the airport, they're like the evidence is kind of you might as well just plead guilty. And I was like, I want this to be over with for my myself or my family. Yes. I saw it as a new beginning. Okay. And but not without like living an emotional squalor for like a year and a half. And then I just got so bored of it. Yeah. I was like, this is not me. I was like, I'm a happy, yeah, like good kid. Like, you know what I mean? Like I've not had issues, but like I was like, I've I was very happy. Yeah. So and like I didn't like the person that had made me. Like I knew I had to like obviously figure out what how this happened and not like it wasn't just fine. Like, I had to kind of be in that emotional squalor for a bit to realize, you know, who I hurt and how I hurt them. And yes, because I did hurt my family a lot. And I'm sure you know my my younger sister wouldn't even look at me for six months. And so yeah, okay. It was just kind of a necessary I don't know, it's not wasn't necessary evil, it was a it was just a necessary thing that needed to happen.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Exactly. And so then you go, so do you have to go to court once you plead guilty? You still go to court, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

You still go for like your sentencing day, and the courtroom was completely patched. So my whole family came, even like the bishop of Hamilton came at the time. So everyone was really rowling behind me. If people knew he was at your core, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

This was just a mistake, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Yes, yeah, okay. And so you get sentenced to four years. Four years, yeah. And at first that sounds scary, but let's let's remember, I had a lot of time to like plan myself where I was going. And I actually I was at a work event and I met someone that worked for John Howard Society and they had a company called Clink.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

And the person that worked for Clink was had actually also been incarcerated for the same crime as me. And so I managed to meet this accidental, this mentor by accident. So she actually helped me prepare and plan and worked with my family.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

And um, so by the time like June January 16th came around, like I was ready. I was like, this is like my time. So I wasn't afraid. I was like, I was looking forward to it because I began to see it as like an investment. Okay, right. You know, the legal fees were astronomically high, you know, especially for a 25-year-old. And um, so I was like, okay, if you know, I'm gonna this is gonna be like my rehab, it's gonna be like a sabbatical, it's gonna be my education, I'm gonna do something good. I didn't know what it was gonna be, and yeah, so I didn't think it would be popcorn, but no.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Okay, that's incredible. So, Mike, other than what we see on TV, what's jail actually like?

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Like, what was that day like? So there's there's two facilities that I can kind of offer insight into. The one of them is a lot like what you see in the movies. It's a provincial institution, okay, and it's maximum security. It's overcrowded, the doors are metal, the meals are, you know, yeah, there's limited showering, there's a lot of violence. Um and it's just overcrowding. There's the lights are always on. There's it's like a form of like sleep torture, like they don't let you actually sleep, you know what I mean? Um, and so that is like very much, I would say, like a lot we see in the movies. Federal prison, it's a little bit different because it's tiered. So you have maximum security, which is like for violent offenders. So murder murder or aggravated assault. Okay, they have to spend at least two years in there before you can get like moved moved down. Okay. And then other other than that, everyone starts in medium, and that's where I started. But you are you live on like a compound in in a house, and there's like I think 15 houses or something of okay. But again, these are people that have could have been convicted of murder and then just trin transition out. So it's it's really like a mixed bag. Yes. Um, and you just kind of have to, you know, not not like I finally there's like three rules. So it's like don't talk crap, don't like start crap, um, don't have any debts, and obviously, you know it's not good if you rat it on someone, or depending on your crime as well, you know, the okay in the prison population isn't too friendly to crimes against children.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Yes. No, okay, understood. Yeah. Okay. And so how long were you in jail for?

SPEAKER_00 19:28

So I did a year and then I was granted day parole because I was just like, I'm not messing this up.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

And was there drugs in there? Yeah. But there was it was also more the drugs that were already provided by the prison. Like people would just trade their subs prescriptions for things.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

So I think I took one sleeping pill once and I slept for like two days. That's an intense sleeping pill. It's like very powerful. Yes. That's like all I did. Yes. Um, but then there people would smoke like banana peel and and like tea, call it. It was called Banaco. Okay. Yeah. But you could also get tested at any time. Yes. So that's why I was just like, not worth it. That's not worth it.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

So, but up until then, like even when you were on house arrest, you were you were still drinking, you were still doing drugs. Oh, yeah, I definitely did the drugs. So how did you rehab like did you do part rehab when you're in jail or I wasn't doing enough where I was like physically addicted.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Oh, okay. Yeah, I was never like had the physical addiction to it. Okay. I was just like, okay, done, let's go. Next, next chapter. Next chapter. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

Okay. So talk to us about popcorn. Because somewhere in here, popcorn comes up.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Yeah. So part of my I I want to say like substance use disorder was because of a food, like an eating disorder. Okay. Um, and so when I after I'd recovered from that, I didn't want to go to prison and like relapse from that. Like I had one for like 10 years where so and then I'd substitute the vodka, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Um, so I was like, I'm not gonna relapse with this, with this thing. Cause that I found was far more it was way harder to get over that than it was any alcohol or anything like that because you need food to live.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

Yes, you do, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:06

So it's a lot for me, it was much harder. It took me 10 years. Um Do you mind me asking what that was? Yeah, it was like anorexia and then bulimia. Oof. Yeah. But I was like, I was like, I'm ready to go to prison. And I was like, I'm ready to, and so I exercised a lot and then I I got popcorn off the canteen. I would buy because you would make your own food, so the prison would provide certain foods for you to just cook, and you have to figure out with your your cellmates, not cellmates, but like your housemates, yes, who's gonna cook when and everything like that. Cause you you have a house of 10 people in one kitchen, so you gotta figure out a schedule. Um, but then you could also buy things off the canteen, like the commissary with your own funds, and so I'd buy popcorn kernels because I knew I wanted like a health, like a yes, like a healthier snack because I didn't want to relapse. And so I would put like just random spices on it, and then as we as I was kind of doing that, and then like I would bring it to like another living room, and then people would chime in and like sh share their favorite. Like popcorn recipe, and then I saw how it made people so creative, but also connected. Yes. And we would talk about all sorts of things. Like I learned about people's stories and how I was actually really lucky. You know, I was never a victim of abuse when I was growing up and or anything like that. Like the the experiences of some of the women I that I met in there were absolutely horrific. Um, and those aren't my stories to tell, but I could I didn't, you know, suffer like an anything violent or anything like that. So um anyway, so I learned that I was like really lucky too. And um but one thing we also talked about was like employment and working and who's gonna hire us. So now what? So not only do we feel worthless, but like people aren't gonna hire us. So what are we gonna do? And throughout this time, I was kind of just reading about social enterprises when I was in prison. And I was I'd also read um a number of stories about people who had been to prison and built things after, and like how entrepreneurs, like successful entrepreneurs, often have similar like qualities of people that it can be like if you're a drug dealer, you're you're running a business. So it's like I get it. So I was like, maybe I can and then it kind of just put all of them together. I was like, maybe I can start a popcorn company with like bold flavors and a bold mission to fight for second chances.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

And that and I went with it. And you went with it. Yeah, and it's called Comeback Snacks. Called Comeback Snacks. Now that wasn't the first name. The first name was Collins and Colonels, but that's because I did a survey. Oh, okay. I had like all these names, and and then I passed it around, and that was the name that people chose that they liked the most. But that one's good, yeah. But upon like actually selling into the market, not just to be like talking about with ourselves, yes, it was more like, okay, if you want to connect with everyone, like what does everyone do? Make mistakes, yes, make comebacks. And so that's where the name came in.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

The name change. That's amazing. So um like it's one thing to have an idea, and it's another thing to then leave prison. And how long were you in for?

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Um, I was in for a year, and then because my sentence was four years. And like I got out the statistical amount of time if you don't mess around. So like that was just how it works percentage time. Okay. But then I had to spend six months in a halfway house after that closed. So day parole. Okay. And then once you do that, you can get full parole so you can live on your own. Okay. But you're still supervised, like heavily, like you know, you drug test, all those things. So it's not just like willy-nilly do whatever you want.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

Yeah, no, exactly. Okay. So then going from concept to like I'm actually going to start this, I how did that happen? Because I have to imagine carrying this label um has its challenges.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Yeah, I mean, I didn't see it as a liability. I began to see it as an asset.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

Yeah, like I just kind of began to reframe everything. And again, doing like a lot of reading about people's stories and their lives. And and it was all I was also in there at a time where like the prison reform movement was starting to make like real waves and starting with the US. And so I was like, I couldn't have gone to prison at a better time. Okay. If I was just like if it's just 22,000, people wouldn't like whatever.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

But um, so like there's already this movement towards prison performance and second chances starting in the US. Okay. Um, not really so much in Canada, but interesting. Again, I'd read stories about people going to prison, starting businesses in the US and being accepted. And even like Richard Branson in the UK had virgin trains. He had um a whole like division for going into prisons and hiring people to work for virgin trains. So like you had heard about that. Yeah. So leaders were actually starting to do that. Yes. And so that's when I was like, okay, I have something here. So when I got out, I still had to get a job at the gym. Like, I still had to get a normal job with a paycheck. Yes. Like I didn't have like money, like that much money. Like, you know, I had like a little like five grand or something in savings. But what really helped build the comeback snacks was the community. Like, I I shared it with the Hamilton Spectator. I worked with a reporter because I was like, someone's gonna this story is gonna be shared, it's gonna be shared by me. Yes, on my own terms. Yes. And then I got shared of the Toronto Star, and then I was asked to go on like CTV morning show. Great, and so kept on getting picked up, picked up. But the reason why people like were I got so much good feedback, and of course there's gonna be people that were like, whatever, like still hate you. Like, that's fine. Um, but um, it was eight pages long, and so it actually started from the very beginning to like what happened, and then that's when people are like, Oh my god, like I I'm so glad you shared this, so now I can share this with my daughter.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Yes, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Or it's like, oh my god, I've been going through this thing, and how did you get through this? So it went from like a position of like going to prison, it makes you scary or you're bad to like, oh my god, this is actually relatable. There's exactly elements of yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:41

That's incredible. So how do you like where you make the popcorn like when you started? Were you like prison kitchen? Prison kitchen, baby. And when you came out of prison, like, okay, in my condo or my apartment, I'm now making a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Well, I can move back in with my mom. Like, I'd okay, I worked at the um sorry, I was in the halfway house. And so I rented a commercial kitchen space.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

But then I also would like uh tinker around with recipes of my mom's house, but you can't sell those to the public at, you know, it's like I'm not breaking any more rules. I was like, I know everyone's gonna be like watching me like a hawk. Absolutely, you know. So it's like I'm doing everything by the book here. Yes. Um, and then once I was allowed on full parole, I moved like just down the street of the halfway house in Dundas, my friend's basement.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

And then there's a local grocery store there called the Horn of Plenty, and they're like, why don't you just pop here, pop your popcorn here? We're licensed for free. And if you help us with our social media, because they're like, they really want to expand this. So that's what I did. I bartered like my current skill set for what what I what you know, yeah. Exchange of value.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

That's amazing. Yeah. And your community who was there when you were sentenced to now the community that you've grown, they've shown up for you all the way along.

unknown 27:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

I mean, when I got arrested, people are definitely pissed off. I mean, rightfully so, when you don't know the story. And um, but like, you know, I knew I had to work at it. And there's some people that, you know, I didn't talk to ever again. But then there's also people that that came to visit me as often as they could.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

And like that's not up to me if people, if people want to part ways, that's fine. That's okay. Like, you know, because there are a lot of people that have been, you know, I harmed myself with my drug use, right? So it's like I understand that there are people that may have known victims of a drug, you know what I mean? Like I get it. Right. So like I had to be mindful of that. Mindful of that, yeah. So yeah, no, it's uh that's really good.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

Yeah. Okay. So how's business with comeback snacks then?

SPEAKER_00 28:38

It's good. We're like in 1,500 stores now. What? Actually, no, I think we're in that's so good. So we just launched with TJX USA in like 4,000. So I think now we're almost at five. But that was that's very new. So I'll have to get the numbers on it. But Canadian stores. Wow. Yeah, 1300.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

That's amazing. Yeah. So when you look back on your journey, like how how proud do you feel of what you've done?

SPEAKER_00 29:00

I'm proud of myself, but I'm also proud of the people that helped build it because you know, I have amazing staff. Like they're a lot of people that have worked with us are people that have been incarcerated. That was like my main goal. Okay. Popgorn was just kind of the vector, right? Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

So you exclusively hire people who are who need a second chance?

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Not exclusively, because there's different roles that need to be filled that, you know, you need you need to have like certifications or whatever. But my business partner, for example, he's not. But like when we have roles that, you know, like sampling or doing sales at trade shows, events, um, giving it on on the street, like, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

And if we have like the financial capacity to hire as well, too, right? But when you're so small, it's like you could you can grow in incremental stages as well. Yes, yes. Small business is tough.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Small business is tough. Yeah. Yeah, no, I I totally hear you. Living it right now. Yeah. Yeah. That's incredible. Okay. So uh there's so many places I could go, but um what would you say you have learned the most about yourself through this journey?

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Um, I would say that what I've learned about myself that my energy can do really good things when it's put in the right place.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

You know, because energy can also, like you can be very dangerous. And when I what when I got arrested, I really wanted revenge, you know, and that that mindset was putting me in like a very bad dark place who I wasn't. But then when I took that need for like negative revenge and put into something positive, that became like this like unstoppable tsunami of goodness. So good. And so, and that's the best feeling, like knowing that you're doing something that's helping yourself, it's helping other people, and you have that momentum that could have been very dangerous, and now it's like something awesome.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

And so, do you still harbor anger? No, no, only actually, no, I have I have little moments because like things, things will happen. Like, um, last year I was my sister got married in Scotland. Nice, and I was like the bridesmaid because I'm her sister. Yes. And this is a sister that you know didn't talk to me for six months. So that's the big deal. So three months before the wedding, UK changes the rules, and it's like if you've been to prison, you can't come. No. So I had to basically tell my sister that I couldn't come for like the most important day of her life. Yeah. Um, and it was all, you know, so that's when I was like so mad. You know, it took me like weeks to because I didn't want to text her, I didn't want to tell her on the phone and end up this whole crying incident of like earls. But anyway, but it was like the but that was like how how quickly how sometimes these things can still impact you, right? And so that's when I was just but but you know what I did after that? I met her in the south of France right after.

SPEAKER_02 31:39

Fantastic. Exactly. Find a different path. You find a different path. Yeah. Okay. So you figured out resiliency quite well. Yeah, I try to. That's amazing. All right. So what would be your words of wisdom for the audience based on everything you've learned? Because you've you've you've lived a full life in a short life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

I would say it's okay to it's okay to be sad, but just don't live there forever. Don't live forever because life is truly a gift.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

And we have so much that we can do when we are on and we there's so much goodness that we can create and build in others. And so once I like went from like that changing that anger like into like something like it was a sweet revenge kind of thing. Sweet revenge. Sweet revenge. Exactly. I would say find that. Find that.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Find that. Curious, how how did you figure out how to make that switch?

SPEAKER_00 32:37

I just got bored of feeling like that. I got really, really bored. I was like, this is not me.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

No.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Um, and again, I was surrounded by like a lot of people that knew that wasn't me too. So it's like you gotta surround because in the beginning I was kind of hanging out with people that were like, I'm gonna go get your revenge, you know. So you also have to get away from those negative forces, right? Which sometimes isn't easy when you still have that negative force inside you. Totally.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

So yeah, because they're just reinforcing how you are.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

Yeah, it's like it's like gum on the bottom of a shoe. It's like gum.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

Yeah, it just keeps you grounded and not the way you want. Yes. Okay, yeah. So part of it is shedding those around you who aren't really bringing you the what you need. Exactly. That's amazing. Well, your story is uh incredible, uh incredibly grateful that you are here and telling the story. And uh while while you have lived a full life in a short amount of time, um very grateful that you're on this side of it and that you're making a difference. You're making a difference in such an important way in a community with people who desperately need a second chance, and you're giving them that, and also feeding everyone with some incredible snacks. We're gonna do a taste test. I was gonna say, we're totally doing a taste test after that. So yeah, so thank you. Truly appreciate you. Well, thank you for having me here. That's awesome. Thank you for joining me today. I'm not normally speechless, but I was overwhelmed by Emily's story. The fine line between seeing the red flags and actually acting on them literally cost her years of her life. And yet, her resilience and strength are commendable. Imagine looking forward to going to prison to have a chance to turn your life around. What she built since her release is nothing short of amazing. If this story resonated with you, please share it with someone you care about and be sure to subscribe so you can continue to hear more pivotal stories involving one question, one turning point, one powerful story. I'll see you next week with another guest on the Leslie Hawkins Podcast.