Meeta Gandhi - Breaking The Cycle

We tell ourselves it doesn't happen here. Not in our neighbourhood. Not behind those doors. Not to someone like her.

But domestic abuse doesn't announce itself. And for our guest, it wasn't just her own story, it was a pattern that had quietly shaped the generations before her.

Until she chose to make it stop.

Finding herself in a domestic abuse situation with children to protect, she had to rebuild physically, emotionally, and financially, not just for herself, but for them.

In the hardest season of her life, she found Yellow Brick House. A place where she felt safe, where she felt seen, with three simple words “I believe you”. The community offered a quiet, steady reminder that she was not alone, and that support changed everything.

This is a conversation about survival, courage, and the extraordinary strength it takes to break a cycle. And about what becomes possible when you refuse to let the past write the future.

#pivotalmoment #domesticabuse #survivor

Lesley Hawkins is a keynote speaker with her signature keynote "The Courage To Define and Own Your Worth", workshop developer (The Leadership Mirror and The Leaders Table), leadership strategist, and storyteller who believes growth happens in the everyday moments that define who we become. 

Drawing on years of experience leading, guiding, and mentoring teams, Lesley brings authenticity, curiosity, and heart to the conversation as each interaction is an opportunity to define what truly matters.

One question. One turning point. One powerful story. 

To learn more about Lesley: www.lesleyhawkins.ca / www.marsley.ca

@the_lesley_hawkins_podcast

The Lesley Hawkins Podcast is a Marsley Canada production.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Leslie Hopkins Podcast. Each week, my guest and I discuss one pivotal moment in their life, what they learned from it, and their words of wisdom. We tell ourselves it doesn't happen here. Not in our neighborhood. Not behind those doors. Not to someone like her. But domestic abuse doesn't announce itself. And for our guest, it wasn't just her own story, it was a pattern that had quietly shaped the generations before her. Until she chose to make it stop. Finding herself in a domestic abuse situation with children to protect, she had to rebuild physically, emotionally, and financially, not just for her, but for them. In the hardest season of her life, she found Yellowbrick House, a place where she felt safe, where she felt seen. With three simple words. I believe you. The community offered a quiet, steady reminder that she was not alone and that that support changed everything. This is a conversation about survival, courage, and the extraordinary strength it takes to break a cycle. And what becomes possible when you refuse to let the past right the future. Welcome to the Leslie Hopkins Podcast. I am so grateful that you are joining us here today. Please welcome today's guest, Mita Gandhi. So Mita is a public service leader. She is also the board chair of Yellow Brick House, which is an organization that offers shelter and support for women and children who are being impacted by violence. So thank you and welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me. It's great. So the podcast is all anchored on one question, which is what is one pivotal moment in your life? And the reason that's the question is first of all, it's a very universal uh question. Everybody has pivots, multiple pivots, irrespective of age. And it's about what we do during those pivots, how people are resilient, how agile they are, the courage that they have, whatever the basis upon which they have that pivot, whether it's one that they control or one that is imposed on them. And I found that there's incredible stories out there and wanted to provide a platform for people to hear these great stories and meet amazing people like yourself. So the that's the podcast, and we are having some incredible conversations. And I know today will be no different. So thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

Um, and uh I applaud you for starting a podcast like this. When when I first found out about it, I thought, well, that that's actually a really interesting question. Yes. And it made me pause and think, what have been my pivots in my life?

SPEAKER_00 3:15

And we all have lots, it seems. It's just some, I always find that there's one salient moment that becomes that one pivot for you, upon which other decisions and other pivots come. So let me ask you, what is one pivotal moment in your life?

SPEAKER_03 3:35

Uh well, as you mentioned, people have many pivots, but I will say the one major pivot in my life was when I found myself um experiencing domestic violence and being identified as a survivor of domestic violence. Um and everything happened, I guess, quickly, but in some ways slowly. Violence isn't something that just happens overnight. It starts in bits and and often just with yelling and shouting and then pushing and shoving, and then something happens that's pretty epic. Yes. But domestic violence is not just about you know physical hitting. It's a it there's all there's a a whole range of violent types that people use. Um, but the one pivotal moment was when I was experiencing um domestic violence, it was pretty severe. And overnight I became a single mom. Oh so um he had to be taken out of us. Um and I had to start a new life.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Okay. And it wasn't just one moment, it's a slow, steady incline that you experience.

SPEAKER_03 4:59

It can't, I mean, and this my experience is typical of other experiences, and I'm not gonna say the whole relationship was awful and you know it was uh constant plus children. Children, and yes, definitely there were happy moments. Um, but there are stressors that happen in relationships, and what you do with those stressors matters. Yes, and in this case, uh, they just got very extreme and it resulted in domestic violence. And sometimes it starts with yelling, and and I'll just say this generically, it can start with uh yelling and screaming, it can become name-calling, there can be financial abuse, there could be psychological abuse, there could be situations where the the partner says to the survivor, I'll say I hate to use the word victim. I'll I'll say the partner and the survivor. Um, you know, um call them names, um uh belittle them, yes, gaslight them. Uh uh and then it can erupt into physical violence. Um and usually people don't do don't don't leave a relationship after the first instance of physical violence or abuse of of any kind. It takes, I think the statistic is 23 instances of abuse before somebody will actually leave. Really? Yeah. Well, somebody will decide that's a that it's enough. Um my goodness. So I I don't know, I haven't it wasn't 23 instances of physical abuse for me, but there are there are microaggressions, there are things that happen along the way, then you finally say that it's enough. And in my case, um I've I've watched my um my mother be abused, I watched her mother be abused, and I thought I can't, I can't have this happen to my children. I can't watch, I can't have my children continue to watch me be abused.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Yes. Okay, so I'm I'm not normally at a loss for words, but um 23 instances that that really that's an incre a crazy stat. Um okay. Uh I'm grateful. Well, first of all, grateful that that wasn't your experience, but you at that moment had the courage to say no more.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

I I can't say that it was a okay, this is it, and I'm never gonna consider being in this relationship again, if I'm being honest. Um actually. I had two pretty young kids who were both under the age of 10. Oh, okay. Um I had just started a new job that week, which was downtown, and I lived in Thornhill. Yes. And um, I was trying to figure out how I was gonna make everything happen. Yes. Uh, from a logistics perspective, how am I supposed to take care of these kids? How am I supposed to manage? What am I supposed to do? Maybe, you know, this was an extreme situation, and he was really upset. And maybe I should be compassionate and care. And like maybe I should do I honestly, it took me a long time to to finally say that I can't continue in this um relationship. So, and I would say that my experience is probably like many other experiences. There's many people who this is why it's 23 times before before somebody would actually leave. And when I say 23, it could be any variety of forms of abuse. Absolutely. Yes. Um, but uh, you know, it for me it it it wasn't uh I'm gonna wake. I knew in that moment that we were gonna be separated. Yes, but I didn't know. I honestly didn't know what was gonna happen in the next 10 hours, let alone the next 10 years. Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Oh my goodness. So after the incident, how how were your children? Were they okay?

SPEAKER_02 9:10

It was pretty horrible.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Yeah, pretty horrible.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

It was pretty horrible.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

My um my youngest my son, the younger of the two, said that uh I'll never forget he was sitting on my bed and he was holding his chest and he said, My heart is breaking. And my daughter was just um so upset and so confused and so sad. And you know, these are very complicated situations because they continue to have a relationship with him. You know, like it doesn't things don't end. It's not that simple.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

No.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

You think maybe in some storybook you you run off and you start a new life and it's everything is you have connections with that person's family, the children are still, you know, obviously related um to that person. It's it's it's very complex.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Yes. Yeah, it's not that he gets removed from the situation and now you it's fine, the three of you just move on. Everything is so intertwined.

SPEAKER_03 10:21

Yes, yes. So it took a long time for me to figure out what to do and what to do. And I will tell you, I mean, I had I literally had neighbors coming as envoys on his behalf to say, oh, you have to let him come back, and he has to yeah, oh my goodness. And then the rules had changed in the time that um uh everything happened with us because you know, they were saying, Oh, you have to you you have to just let him in and you have to drop everything, all the legal action that was happening because of it. And and I said, Well, it's out of my hands. You know, the crown at some point takes over and decides what needs to be done, which wasn't the case before it used to be that the that the that the survivor would have to take action of some kind, but yeah, it doesn't happen like that anymore. And so um I my neighbors would come. I had family members who didn't believe that this was that it had even happened. Um his family wasn't particularly supportive, like in the sense of, and I get it, you know, he's their family and he they needed to circle around him. Uh, but I felt alone, very alone. I mean, I my brother was my rock. I had friends who were incredibly supportive. Some some family was were really, really supportive. Um, but it wasn't like I had the circle around me that we're holding hands and protecting like that's not what happened.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

No.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

And, you know, interestingly enough, my father kept on saying, Oh, you have to go back, you have these two kids. And and of course he would say that because he's also um in the same, you know, he he and he would never say, Oh, because I I abused your mom, then you should go back and be he would never classify himself like that.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

No.

SPEAKER_03 12:17

Um, so yeah, it wasn't easy. It wasn't a straight line to, okay, this is what my next step is going to be. I actually had social service agency people never forget this. One woman said to me, Um, Amita, you have to think about it like you're driving the bus. And he's a passenger on the bus and he's got some illness. And so, you know, you have to make the choice of whether or not you want to drive the bus. And I just thought, what?

unknown 12:45

What?

SPEAKER_03 12:47

And I remember uh the place I worked at the time uh had um sort of like an employee assistance program, and one of the counselors who was unbelievably incredible had told me about Yellowbrook House.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

Um, and I made a conscious decision to not call them because I didn't want to be one of those women who was defined in this way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

I don't want that label.

SPEAKER_03 13:21

I don't want that label. No. I'm not one of I'm not I'm not that person. How could I born in Canada, raised, educated? Yeah, you know, a gr career that's advancing pretty quickly, like I don't want that until I kept on repeatedly getting either gaslit by people around me, uh told by people who are professionals that you know maybe you should just understand that this is an illness, and he has to like you make a choice to what? It was weird. I just felt like I didn't have any support.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

No.

SPEAKER_03 13:59

And then I remember one day saying, Okay, I'm I have to call them.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Yes. I need to go somewhere where I'm heard seen and heard. Yeah. And it was a remarkable experience.

SPEAKER_03 14:14

It was it was a remarkable experience. I called the crisis line, and like the thing that they say they said and in future counseling sessions, which I can talk about at at some point, is like the most important three words you can ever say to somebody who's experiencing this is I believe you.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

So that's what they did. Yeah, they listened and they heard and they they said, Okay, these are the things we can do. Are you safe? Are your children safe? You know, that's the number one concern. Absolutely. Um, we have an event every year at Yellowbrick House, a walk in November. And the part of the ceremony we have it at St. Andrew's College, and part of the ceremony is we take these purple ribbons and we tie them on a lamppost, and the the ribbons represent all of the women who'd been killed uh in Ontario over the past year. And when you start seeing them go up and up, there's not one or two, ten, twenty, thirty killed. Or children, women or children or both. Yes. Um because of their gender. It's pretty remarkable. The pictures are mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Um that's horrible.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

It is horrible.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

I mean, it it it's a representation that really I'm sure strikes a chord when you see all those ribbons. You can't ignore them.

SPEAKER_03 15:54

No, you can't. It's very, very, very evident. So eventually I I called Yellowbrook House and I had that call, and then I was pointed to different resources that could help me and they helped me.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

I find it interesting that the response from many around, and I'm sure uh many women uh experience the same response you got. It was just a one-off. It's all good, just take him back. He's got an illness, like it's your responsibility to compensate or to fix or to um accept. For the people who do come to Yellowbrick House, is it a is it a common occurrence that the community around them just says this is like you just need to, like this is fine, just you'll be okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:52

Uh so yeah, I I think I I can't say, you know, statistically if it's a common experience. I can speak to my experience, and it was definitely there that you know, you'll be okay. I think culturally there's an impact. And I I'm from the South Asian community. Abuse happens all of the time, and you hear about this happening in all their communities, and you are not to talk about it. Oh, you are this is not something that you go in and say anything about. You keep it to yourself. Anything that happens within your house, you keep it in your house. That's very much a cultural practice and um or near norm or rule, I don't know. Yes. Um, so to speak out, like what will people say is usually the mindset. So when you start to hear that, I can almost guarantee that you're you're gonna have instances where people are not going to disclose that there's no um gender-based violence in their homes. Okay. So uh, and you'll often see pockets of of of communities that will just where this is very common, where it's normal. In our community it is, I would say, in the South Asian community. Yeah, it's very normal. It doesn't happen in every house, no, but it definitely does happen.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

But people don't talk about it. No, because they're worried about what will people say.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Right. What the and it's it's one of those things like you have no idea what's going on behind closed doors of anyone's house. And the idea that there would be neighbors that would be experiencing this is mind-blowing. Because you quite frankly, you just don't think it happens in your neighborhood, and yet for sure it is.

SPEAKER_03 18:51

Well, you know, earlier I talked about not wanting me to be identified as that person. Yes. Part of that is probably from that think, from that mentality of, well, then if I identify myself, then people are gonna know. Right. And people are gonna hear my story and they're gonna say, Well, how could that possibly happen? Right. What did she do? Right. He's such a nice guy. He's such a nice guy. The persona of people who are in many cases abusers, yeah, isn't the down and out, you know, person who doesn't participate in the community. It's often somebody who is very dynamic.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

So that's why people don't believe it.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 19:35

So you're you you're in a situation where I'll I'll I'll talk about my mother's situation. My dad's form of abuse was like every kind financial, emotional, psychological, and physical.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 19:51

And uh and so he restricted access, her access to people. He didn't want her to have friends. He didn't want her to communicate with her family. He would look over the phone bills and see, you know, well, why did you place this call to wherever? And so she didn't have the resources to do anything about it. Financially, she was dependent. Like, I mean, it was it was like every kind.

unknown 20:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

And people thought we were the ideal family in the community, right? Right. The only time we have to worry is in the summertime if the windows were open, and god forbid somebody heard you.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 20:34

Okay. But you would just pick yourself up and say, Okay, I'm fine. And it was remarkable. Wow. I think about it, I think about what I saw as a child and experienced. It it was remarkable.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

And and and so can you talk a little bit about the generational impact because you saw your grandmother and your mother and then yourself and you said no, no more. But that there's a pattern, and I appreciate uh the uh cultural not norm, but how does how does it keep going generation after generation? How is it contagious? It's contagious. Okay, contagious, okay.

SPEAKER_03 21:34

Uh so what ends up happening is um, and this is one of the factors that really turned me to make a decision to contact Yellowbrook House. Uh I saw a statistic that um 70% of uh people who witness, children who witness abuse will be become abused or abusers. I don't know if the 70% is exactly accurate, but it was enough of information for me to say. I'm not gonna have my children become a statistic. No. And I knew I was.

unknown 22:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

And I knew my mother was. So I don't have the science necessarily or the psychology behind it, but I can tell you as a person who is a child in a home where there is abuse, it impacts your self-esteem deeply. It impacts who you believe your worth, what what you believe your worth is. Yes. It impacts the choices you make in terms of partnerships. And and um and you you tend, we tend as human beings to gravitate to what we know. How often do you hear people say, oh, I met somebody and they're exactly like my dad? Yes. Well, I met somebody who's exactly like my dad. You know, I just some you you tend to gravitate towards what you know. And you don't necessarily know that it's going to be abusive at the you take your stance and it's gonna be a particular way, but you don't necessarily know. And and then you're in it. And then things happen. And often I I'll say, I'll speak for myself. I wasn't the most confident person growing up. I don't think I really gained confidence until I was in my 50s.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:23

You know, I think that it took a long time to shed those layers of, you know, you you're not necessarily deserving, or you know, these happen, you have to take it on. Even those counselors who said, Yes, you know, you have you you have a choice to ride drive the bus. Like, what are you talking about? What?

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:44

Really?

SPEAKER_00 23:45

That would have been my response with a few expletives. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:48

Yeah, but I didn't even have that. I was just confused.

unknown 23:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:52

And so um I think that the the reason why it's generational is we like you think about this with corporal punishment, right? Often people who hit their kids were people who were hit themselves. It it extends to gender-based violence. Often the people who are uh uh experiencing and witnessing uh gender-based violence are are people who were either abused or um either they witnessed abuse or they or they uh were abusers.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

Yes.

unknown 24:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 24:28

It's tragic.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

It is tragic.

SPEAKER_03 24:31

Add to that other things like my family, my parents immigrated to Canada in the 60s, add to that racism, add to that um, you know, class and and societal structure imbalances, add to that financial, uh, socioeconomic differences, add to that any number of things, which only increases the propensity for these things to happen. During COVID, there was a 30% increase in gender-based violence. People are living closer together, there's more stress. 30% increase during COVID. That's so high. Yes, it's it's enormous. Yes. And Yellowbrick House has 41 beds and 10 cribs in two separate shelters. That doesn't address a 30% increase.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

No, it does not.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

And so talk to us a little bit about how did you cut obviously you you were a beneficiary of the services of Yellowbrick House. Yeah. And I I'm assuming they had a huge impact on you and your children. Because your children would have also been part of that services and support.

SPEAKER_03 25:55

Yes. So after I called the crisis line, um, they suggested that I uh attend one of their group sessions. Okay. And in this particular group session, it was sort of a series of of a number of weeks, and they had essentially a curriculum that they went through, and there were a number of women in the session. And then they had uh separate rooms for the children, age um, sort of divided by age, and they were teaching the children the same curriculum that was age appropriate. Okay. It was spectacular just to be able to A, be in a room with other people who I could talk to and who really understood me. Yes. And the stories I heard, the stories I heard, broken bones, yeah, women dragged by cars. Like I can't even it, it it was it was absolutely horrific. And all of our children were in age-specific rooms where the children were learning things like boundaries, and um the children at one point made these chains and they was called a chain of support. And each ring had a name, the kids' helpline, your grandparents' number, your whoever. And the my kids kept their chain for years. Um, and then after that, we had individual counseling. I got support through their um legal services as well. I was able to stay in my home. Okay. So I didn't have to use the shelter. Um financially, I was in a really tough spot. There was every time I walked in, there was food I could take. There was clothes, there were toys, there was, you know, anything I needed for the children. I could just in their outreach office, um, anybody who walks in has that um access. Um and I felt like I had I had a place. You had a place. Yeah. Um like it wasn't crazy. And then we I had some individual counseling, and my daughter and my son also had individual counseling. And my daughter was going through um at the time a pretty significant bullying experience at school. And her counselor really helped her through that. Like I I can say that I was present for my children, but I didn't always have the tools that I needed to help them.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

Um, and I've learned that in life. Like it's you can't always have the answers for everything. And sometimes you need help and support from people. Yes. So I went through all of that, and then um, somewhere in the back of my mind just said, I'm gonna get through this and I'm gonna survive it. And when I when I do, I'm gonna give back.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

So many years passed. Yes. Um, I met the person who's now my husband, and uh, we have a wonderful blended family, and like I can't speak more, like he's just a spectacular human being. Amazing. Um, and together we have four children and um now a group new grandbaby. Oh, nice. A lot of real feeling, super blessed. Um uh and then I was going through, I would say, probably my most second most significant pivot in my life where I was working for an organization and decided I couldn't work for them anymore. And I had to make a change, but I needed to have something ahead of me. Yes. So that I could deal with that change. Um, and I and I'd always thought about joining Elliot Brookhouse, so I reached out to them and said I'm interested in in joining your board of directors. Um and they didn't have a spot in the in that moment, but I was invited to join the governance committee as a community member, and then I joined the board. Great. This was back in 2020, I think. Okay. Um, and now this is I'm just ending my second year as the chair.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

Amazing. Yeah. So good.

SPEAKER_03 30:07

Yeah, it it it's been a really good experience. I mean, we were just kind of getting through COVID at the time, and we were seeing the numbers rise quite significantly when I first joined the board, and we had to pivot all of our events and fundraising initiatives. And at that time, um, fundraising is a really big part of what we do because it costs money to run two homes and to to have those shelter beds and to have the expert staff we have. And then our outreach services um don't have dedicated funding necessarily. So it's we have to do a lot of fundraising to make sure our very well-trained counselors and crisis support workers and um and legal services and housing, that's the other really big issue. Yes um are funded.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

Um yeah, so it's it it it's a it's a huge privilege to be to be on that board.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

That's amazing. I at one point you were still staying in your house, but you were working full time. I'm going back a little bit here, but did people at work know? Did you just question show up at work with a smile on your face that day? Like how what did that look like?

SPEAKER_03 31:37

So um I had started a brand new job right on Monday, and this incident ha happened on Friday. Um and it was obvious that I had like been in some type of altercation. There was bruising and and other things. I put on a whole lot of makeup and I went to work. And my body was so sore. Um wait a second. What? Yeah, yeah. I went to work. I went to work and I didn't say anything to anybody. Yeah. Wow. Okay. I uh called my children's teachers and I told them what happened. And they were incredible. They were really incredible. Uh and I went to work. Because I just like whenever I I've often been asked the questions like, How did you do it?

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:44

And my answer to that is I didn't have a choice. Like, I honestly don't know what would have happened if I didn't have children. Yes. I probably would have crawled in a hole somewhere and disappeared. But I had two children and I had no choice.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:01

And I couldn't screw up this job. Somebody had given me an opportunity, it was an acting. I worked for the federal government at the time, and somebody had this woman who was more or less a mentor to me, um, had said, Hey, I've got this opportunity. Do you want to give it a try? Right. And so I said, Okay. And I didn't know what the scope of the job was until I showed up. And it turned out I was asked to be the director of um settlement programs for newcomers for all of Toronto and York region. Oh. So I had no idea. I don't even know why I didn't even ask. I was like, oh, okay, sure. I'll take this on. And all of a sudden I have a team, 75 people, two offices, managers supervised. Like, I can't I can't A, not show up.

unknown 33:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:57

And B, I need to do this well so that it helps me in my career because I need to do well because I need to support my family.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

I need financial independence.

SPEAKER_03 34:06

I need complete financial independence. And so uh I eventually did confide in one or two people, but I just kept going. I just kept on going and going until this was uh uh February. It's a good thing that I don't remember all the dates now. Fantastic because it's a really good thing because then dates don't become a thing in my mind, but I have um lost sight of some of the dates. Yes. Uh pardon me. Um but then uh probably August, I crashed.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

I just I think that's the time when I also exhausted all of those different channels of maybe I need help in different places, and I realized that I need to make a decision about where I'm going. Yes. I needed to make a decision about how I was going to approach this from a childcare perspective and a and a counseling perspective. And I crashed. Yeah. And I walked into my director's office and I said, So there's something I haven't told you. I'd never even told my director at the time. Or the person, senior director, or whatever her title was, I don't know. Um and I told her what happened. And I said, I need a couple of days to kind of get myself together. So I did. I got myself together and then I came back. But I will tell you the the the trauma is like it doesn't go away. No, it's deep rooted. And so you know, I mentioned at some point I had to make a decision about leaving one other place at work. Well, I was like, I definitely was, I would put it in the harassment category. And it was painful. Yes. And I felt like I was being undone. Even though by then I had met my now husband and I was in a good place psychologically, but maybe not, you know, like it and when things happen, I can feel myself unravel a little bit. Yes. The difference is now I feel like I can allow myself to do that. Um, I I used to feel like I couldn't because I it was it was all on me. And now I feel like I have a stronger support system. Yes. My kids are older. Right. And I am in a stable relationship, a happy relationship. Yes. And I'm able to model that for my children.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Right, exactly. And your children are thriving?

SPEAKER_03 36:45

They are. They're doing very well. All four of them are doing great. Great. Um, we have one uh who's just uh doing some final sort of thesis type of work next year in university, and other than that, they're all great graduated and working and doing well, so I'm so proud of them.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

And just as a I I'm curiosity because now you're in a happy, stable relationship. How did you learn to trust again?

SPEAKER_03 37:30

That's a really good um question. Uh he will tell you, and I will tell you that I kept on saying I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

Can't be this good.

SPEAKER_03 37:44

I was in that state for years. I can't I I I I was looking for, you know, I knew he was not uh I knew he was not ever gonna be abusive because of some of his own life experiences. I knew that that was not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 38:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 38:04

I knew that. Um I couldn't believe I could I was I kept on trying to, you know, pinch myself. Is this possible to have a healthy, good, constructive, happy relationship? Took me years to not have the when is the other shoe gonna drop feelings. Um and then just over time, I think the trust just built.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Did you find yourself looking for red flags? Oh yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:35

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I think uh it'd be shocking to me if that didn't happen. Yes. But you know, um when you've seen it and you've experienced it and you've seen your family experience it so much, then then yeah. Um but he has his own experience uh with abuse, and so I knew that the red flags were really not so much to look out for with him. But okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:07

Amazing. And you're doing great. You've found your place in the world. Um your children still have a relationship with their father. Um and how is how is that? I mean, we talk about trust. Now your children are going to see their father with whom you're fully estranged for all the right reasons. What was that like as a mom?

SPEAKER_03 39:46

Well, first of all, I can't say I'm fully estranged because we still have children together. Right. You know, so the kids, uh, you know, I I I we didn't have joint custody. I had I had full custody, but okay. I also had a responsibility to inform him of things and he was he was part of their life. So um no, it wasn't I'm never gonna talk to you again. I I initially was talking to him with some regularity. Um uh but as like my kids are in their 20s now, and so I I rarely have conversations, um, but I will from time to time.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 40:25

So I can't frame like to be able to move on these types of I know what happened. Yes, like one of those um forgive, forget situations. Now I can't do either, really, but I can put it aside. Okay. And I've had to. I can't identify myself as, you know, every conversation, enter every conversation in a defensive mode or in a protective mode, because that's really not gonna serve no um anybody. And I really have learned that anger is a exceptionally draining emotion.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

It's exhausting.

SPEAKER_03 41:03

It is exhausting. And so I don't feel that.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 41:10

You know, he's made some he's made some pretty significant mistakes and they've impacted his life. Yes. I don't feel sorry for him. I I feel some way, sometimes I feel a bit sad that you know it's come to that.

unknown 41:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:25

That it that it came to this. Um, but he's moved on with his life and he has his own he has his own life and his own circle and his family. He's got a solid family, and yeah. So he has all of those things. So the kids, it depends like uh you know, I think I would say with my son, things have pretty much been steady all along. Okay. Um, things maybe not so much with my daughter, a little up and down, but I think that that's common. And she was older and knew what more about what was ex being experienced. And um, and so uh it it I would say a bit more up and down with her than with my son.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:09

Um, but you know, they're they're okay now. I one of the things that they teach you when you're going through um separation, you file for separation papers, the the court system will make you go through a mandatory information session to say this is what you're gonna expect as you go through this process.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 42:30

And one of the things that they have is they have a social worker who comes in and reminds you that your children are biologically 50% you and 50% your spouse. And so if you spend your time speaking poorly of your spouse, that that's something that they internalize. Yes. That really rang true for me. That like that was a really good tip that they gave. This is right at the beginning. This is after I finally made the decision that I was gonna proceed with a separation and divorce. It didn't happen right away. It happened many months later that I said, okay, I'm gonna file these papers. Right. But that's something that they taught us in that session. It's very, very wise. And I really listened to that. I thought I can't have my kids, you know, having, you know, internalized negative messages about themselves. They know that they're 50% their father. Right. And although, I mean, I know that this happened, but I I can also say it doesn't define him. No. It doesn't define my child, it doesn't make no, you know, that's not that's not that's not what they're gonna have on their, you know, business card. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:44

Um so I really, really try to focus on that for them and also because they had to they were seeing him. They're still seeing him. When they were younger, that was sort of a this is part of the you know agreement. And And then they made choices as they got older in terms of how often they saw him. Yeah. And now I I don't get involved in it.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

No, no, exactly. Now that they're older. Yeah. Okay. So my last question for you is what would be your words of wisdom for the audience?

SPEAKER_03 44:23

Words of wisdom. You know, um I often tell people who are uh going through a crisis that they don't have to solve everything in the moment. That sometimes they just need to get through the first five minutes, and that's success. I think people look at this massive mountain ahead of them and they think, I can't conquer that. And rightfully so.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:58

And so be kind to yourself. Be allow yourself some grace and give yourself time. And sometimes that time is five minutes. It could be five seconds. I mean, there were times I remember being in deep emotional distress. You know, my kids were with their dad and I was by myself and it was scary, and I was, you know, literally curled up in a ball. Um and I just had to get through the next five minutes. And that was success. So, words of wisdom, be kind to yourself, I think, if you're going through this type of situation. Reach out for the resources that are available to you. Um trust in the people who are around you and who care about you and love you. Don't really don't push them away. No. I think that's also a tendency uh to push people away and to try to deal with everything on your own. But I don't think that that's possible. No. Don't don't put too much on yourself.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

Yeah. Get through the next five minutes. Very sage advice. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your story. I'm glad you're on this side of it. I'm very grateful that you're here. And I'm glad to see you thriving and your children thriving. And um for our audience, we will definitely put a note in there about Yellowbrick House and a link to the website and any help that people can provide is so needed. I think about that outreach room that you talk about, where there's like food and toys and clothing, um, that doesn't fill itself up. So if there's if there's anybody, anything that anyone can do to help, uh, a very, very worthwhile and incredibly important service and support that's needed.

SPEAKER_03 47:00

Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to tell my story. Appreciate it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

Thank you for joining me today. Mita's story is one I won't soon forget. The weight of what she carried, protecting her children, showing up to work, and quietly rebuilding her entire life at the same time is, well, almost unimaginable. And yet she did it. With resilience, determination, and sheer will to break the cycle of generational violence. The work she is leading at Yellowbrick House matters more than words can say. If this story resonated with you, please share it with someone you care about and be sure to subscribe so you can continue to hear more pivotal stories involving one question, one turning point, one powerful story. I'll see you next week with another guest on the Leslie Hawkins podcast.