Gina Phillips - The Power In The Pause

Our guest built a career she loved, working freelance across entertainment, sports, and news media. Then the pandemic arrived. And like so many in her industry, everything went quiet overnight.

So she did what felt natural. She went into hyper-drive. Lots of calls, emails. More and more outreach. Chasing every opening, knocking on every door.

And every rejection hit harder than the last.

So she made a decision that went against every instinct, and every piece of advice she had ever been given. She stopped. She calls it the anti-pivot. Less hustle, less noise, less chasing. And instead more focus on the pause.

What she found in that stillness is still unfolding.

This is a conversation about the courage it takes to sit with uncertainty and what opens up when you choose stillness over hustle. 

#pivotalmoment #stillness #humanconnection

Lesley Hawkins is a keynote speaker with her signature keynote "The Courage To Define and Own Your Worth", workshop developer (The Leadership Mirror and The Leaders Table), leadership strategist, and storyteller who believes growth happens in the everyday moments that define who we become. 

Drawing on years of experience leading, guiding, and mentoring teams, Lesley brings authenticity, curiosity, and heart to the conversation as each interaction is an opportunity to define what truly matters.

One question. One turning point. One powerful story. 

To learn more about Lesley: www.lesleyhawkins.ca / www.marsley.ca

@the_lesley_hawkins_podcast

The Lesley Hawkins Podcast is a Marsley Canada production.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Leslie Hawkins Podcast. Each week, my guest and I discuss one pivotal moment in their life, what they learned from it, and their words of wisdom. Our guest built a career she loved, working freelance across entertainment, sports, and news media. Then the pandemic arrived, and like so many in her industry, everything went quiet overnight. So she did what felt natural. She went into hyperdrive. Lots of calls, emails, more and more outreach, chasing every opportunity, knocking on every door, and every rejection hit harder than the last. So she made a decision that went against every instinct and every piece of advice she had ever been given. She stopped. She calls it the anti-pivot. Less hustle, less noise, less chasing, and instead more focus on the pause. What she found in that stillness is still unfolding. This is a conversation about the courage it takes to sit with uncertainty and what opens up when you choose stillness over hustle. Welcome to the Leslie Hawkins Podcast. I am so grateful that you are joining us here today. Please join me in welcoming today's guest, Gina Phillips. So Gina is a host, a producer, a writer, an actor, and you can hear her on CBC News radio program called The World This Hour. So welcome. Thanks for having me. That is definitely a portfolio resume right there. And I only sort of skimmed the surface, but I know we'll get into more today.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

I've just collected things over time. It's great. It's awesome. And you and I originally met because you were writing for Score Golf. And I know you were doing Score Golf TV at that point, which for those who don't know is in the golf world. Yes. And so, you know, once again, there's very few women in the golf world, and we very quickly connect.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

It's so true. I was like, I spotted you right away. I was like, oh my God, she's a woman. She's in a high-powered position. I need to know who she is. Let's connect. Let's connect. Exactly. It's it's important that we stick together.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

I agree.

SPEAKER_03 2:28

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

So this podcast is all based on one question, which is what is one pivotal moment in your life? And the reason that's the question is it is very universal. We all go through multiple pivots, some of which we control and are our choice. And some pivots are imposed on us. And having gone through lots of pivots myself, learned along the way that there is always a story. There's a human element to how everybody decides to manage that pivot. So I wanted to create this platform for people to come and tell their story so that the audience can hear inspiring stories of resilience, of courage, of understanding, of learning, and meet amazing people like yourself.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

Well, Leslie, I have to say this question really stressed me out. Okay, cool. Let me preface this by saying I am like a fly by the seat of my pants, can talk to anybody, loves a random conversation, can dig deep on the fly, right? So you give me this question and it's just like a sticking point in my head for weeks leading up to this podcast. That's so good. And you know when something is like causing tension. Yes. And now I I know it's time to kind of dig in and think like, why did that kind of trigger me in it in a way? So I was like, okay, pivot, pivot, pivot. Why, like, what is it about that word? What is it about this having to think of one moment specifically in my life? Yes. And I realized, okay, first off, what if I'm pivoting? I'm in the process of pivoting as we speak in a certain way. Right. And so it freaked me out to have to um narrate it while I'm inside of it. So you're in the depths of it. I think I am. And I think it's coming from actually an anti-pivot. It's me digging in and staying the course.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

At a time when maybe it looked like I should pivot, I actually didn't and decided not to. And I am learning how to uh find my inner strength instead of changing my external environment and pivoting like I have so many times. Yes. And what happens instead when I uh just kind of stop and stop trying as hard and let the external stuff happen. Like it's like giving up control a little bit. A little bit. Yeah. Okay. So I'm here to talk about the anti-pivot. Okay, so absolutely I am all here for that.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

I knew you would so good. All right. So talk to me about the anti-pivot. What is it?

SPEAKER_02 5:22

And yeah, I think you know, from years of being an actor, you face a lot of if I mean it's 95%. You're not good enough. We're not choosing you, right? So it's a lot of disappointment. Yes. As a freelance host, you get some jobs dropping off, and there are some jobs that rise to the surface. And I've I so I've dibbled and dabbled and pivoted and and put put my energy in in many different places. And after the pandemic, they kind of all went away all at once.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Ouch.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Yeah. And it they're just like these small actions that happened that I felt like I was left with nothing at all. And I know a lot of people felt that during the pandemic. And certainly a lot of people experienced far worse trauma than what I'm about to talk about. But I this is about like the little external no's that we get all the time. And my go-to was to always then pick up a different career or go in a different direction. Or like I always stayed in the storytelling realm, but to um spend my days, okay, maybe I'll email this person who I talked to once at that one at that event. And I'm gonna, and it was a hustling when I had nothing to try to scramble to find something. Yes. And my friends with kids or or my busier friends were like, This is so great. You have all this time. How amazing you've got all this time. And I'm like, I'm like, then why am I so desperate feeling? Yes. I would love this time would be incredible if I didn't kind of feel this desperation that I do. Because when things are kind of pulled away from you, like you have two choices. You can either go, it's okay, or you can go like, What? Oh my god, I'm freaking out. Full panic. Full panic. Yeah. And I even tried to pivot in terms of this is getting pretty personal, but trying to have a kid. I was like, maybe this is the the time, you know, to get pregnant, all that. And that didn't work either. Okay. So what happens when things are just at a complete standstill? How much do you seek to control still? Or do you like lean into open space and just see what happens? So what I did is I just started sitting in silence and like getting real quiet and not letting myself email and not letting myself apply for more jobs and just kind of, I don't know, see what if I could find open space in the jumble in my head. And so I really got into meditation.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

I really got, I found an intuitive guide, a really intuitive, amazing person named Alicia Wood, and she taught me to lean into my intuition more. To um, I started playing music more, like I was really into piano and I learned the drums. So that was kind of an interesting thing that came out of it. But um yeah, I I am only now realizing like that might have been the biggest shift in my life. And it looked like nothing. And now as I get busier, things are coming to me. Yes, and there's a flow, there's a momentum, and I that's all I really wanted was a momentum instead of feeling like I needed to claw my way through things. Right. And now there's a momentum and it feels entirely different. And people around me are like, Well, you're still hustling, you're still doing all these things. And I'm like, No, it's a very different feeling. Okay, I feel really like two feet on the ground. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

So that's the shift I'm going through. That's a big shift. It is. It's interesting. I sitting in the silence. It's it's weird. It's totally not what we're told to do by whoever they are, but with a system. Not at all.

SPEAKER_02 9:20

Yeah. I I was so used to hustling that I I realized the distraction that happens out of that with our phones, of course. But also the like I I have a positive mindset generally. So the positive thing for me to do is go, oh, this isn't working, I'm gonna go over here. Oh, this isn't working, I'm gonna go over here. Yeah. This like go, go, go non-stopness. Okay, and um, yeah, what happens when you actually stop um is like you get to know yourself a bit better.

unknown 9:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Really interesting. Have you ever done that? Although like scary. Scary. Scary.

unknown 10:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Um yeah, so when I left corporate a year over a year ago, everyone's like, oh, you can take the summer off, you can enjoy your time. I was like, um, so I'm gonna go to Portugal for two weeks, I'm coming back, I'm hitting the ground running, and I am going to figure stuff out. And I that's all I did. It was just those two weeks, and the wheels were constantly turning, but at least I was like drinking good wine. Oh my god, I exactly see hello. It was fantastic. Um and then I then it was like the hustle culture takes over.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

Well, exactly, right? You're like, I know how to do this, I'm gonna apply everything I've ever learned, and I'm gonna get up at 7 a.m. and I'm gonna start and I'm gonna work till 7 p.m. and then I'm gonna think about what I'm gonna do the next day.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Yeah, yes, and it's all consuming. And then as the year went on, it got to a point where I was everywhere and nowhere.

unknown 11:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Right? That's exactly how it felt. That's exactly right. So as I said at the beginning, you've got all these parts of your ability and parts of your career that you're so multi-talented across all of these different realms that there's a lot you can do. And so what you to develop those, you'd be pivoting your entire career. Constantly. Constantly. Yes, right. And so then it for me it came to the end of the year and it was okay, well I need to call the herd. Like I need to I need to reduce, uh not because I want to do less, I just want to be more deliberate in what I'm doing. And there's a a calmness that I found came with that. There's also, you know, I'm a bit of a high achiever, so there's always the panic. Of course. Of course. So since you're in, tell me how my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

How are you figuring that out? Uh well, I don't know. Like the the pan, it is less panicky. Yes. What I kind of realized was like I miss being around people. And the structure I had built for myself as a freelancer was me reaching out to companies and being on the outside of these companies. Oh, I see. Okay. As an actor, you're self-taping at home now, which you used to have a community as an actor. You'd go to auditions, but you don't see those people until you're on set. And then maybe you're just on set for a few days and then you're kicked back out again.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

So when I got quiet, I realized like, oh, people matter to me. And I want to be in a building with people. Okay. Like regularly. Yes. And that was such a weird thing because I I'm not looking to work full time. I'm not like I I liked all the pockets I was filling, but I was like, how do I get into a building? Yes. Right. And it was so weird because when I had an opportunity with CBC Radio, I was like, oh my God, cool. I get to go into the building. Yes. Oh, I get to see these people again.

unknown 13:13

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

And although like I didn't know where I was going with it at that time, I it was checking off this like kind of weird feeling I was having just from being on the outside. Right. And so once I got inside, I was in the best freaking mood ever. I was around people. I'm an extrovert. Yes. It was filling this cup that I don't think I would have recognized otherwise. Right. Because I would have been focusing on the jobs that I was getting separately. Yes. Instead of like, oh, every day I get to see some same people. Okay. It's so simple.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

That's so simple. Yeah. And it's so funny because people in corporate are the opposite. They're like, Exactly. Do I really have to go in every day? Do I have to see these same people? Really? I know. We switch this up.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

It's so true. And I do look around and I see everyone coming into the building, but they're going through their own grind, which is being in that same damn building, you know, like, uh, and I, as a freelancer in that space, get to control the amount that I'm there to some degree. And I I'm really I have full energy when I'm in the building. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

Which is you don't get that when you're in a corporate environment. You don't. So I'm like, how do I keep on this frequency? Yeah. This is a good frequency. It's a good frequency.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Yeah. So take us back to the things that you were working in before things got really quiet.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Yeah. So I was working on the golf show for Score Golf. Yeah. Which was great. Uh, I got to travel around. I got to interview athletes and people in the golf industry, write about golf. Um, I never had planned to work in golf. I'm a sporty person, sporty gal, but I wasn't in golf in that way at all. But I remember when I saw the job posting, actually a friend sent it to me. And I was like, what a golf host. It I kind of like checked off all the boxes except for like I hadn't worked in golf and I didn't know if I would be any good at talking. But then I had enough confidence to be like, well, whatever. I can talk to athletes. Work at it. Well, exactly. Right. And so when I got the job, I was like, oh, so cool. Like more proof that you shouldn't decide in advance.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Agreed.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

That you're not a good fit for something. It's not up to you to decide if you're a good fit for something.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Right? Like, go after what you want. It'll decide for you as much. Exactly. In essence. Exactly. So that was really great. But I mean, the show got canceled during the pandemic. Yes. And we were living in a really small condo in Toronto. And I had been traveling all the time. I also did other freelance jobs. But suddenly we were home, you know, in this like 600 square foot condo. And I'm like, oh, this doesn't work anymore. Oh no. Um, and then the landlord wanted to sell the condo. So we had people like we had showings during the pandemic, like masks on in our own home, like spraying everyone with hand sanitizer. And so at that point, we decided to go to Calgary where my family is. Okay. And just see what happens if we leave the city, right? But it was really hard to leave Toronto because I felt like I was exiting out of a life. Well, I was exiting out of a life that I knew and had built. And uh went to Calgary thinking there's no way there's gonna be any acting here. Right. There's no like, I've just got to put everything on a hold, but at least I'll be around family. Yes. And then The Last of Us happened to be filming there, this huge uh HBO show and another one, Guilty Party. And I ended up getting on those shows in my hometown.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

That's so good.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

Which was what and my mom's just like, see, proof that you should stay here. More proof that you should stay here. And that was such a special experience, but I was anxious the entire time because I was thinking, I gotta get back to Toronto, I gotta get back to like these jobs are good, but I I need to be back where uh my network is, you know, I need to be back in it. But when we came back, our within six months. Oh, okay. So I tried to pivot, I tried to start with a media company and work full-time. Okay. This is my full-time story. Um, it that opportunity really collapsed. So I was basically part of a company. I'm not gonna name it, but I had a like a fraudulent contract. So they said, come back here. This is what we're offering you. But the rest of the company didn't know about this contract. So this this guy that had hired me, it was an insane. I will write about it one day. Absolutely. So basically, I I start with this company, it's going really weird, stuff is up, and I'm I'm just like, my tingly senses are like, I need to get the heck out of here. Yep, something's not right. Something's not right. Then I realized my contract it has not even been seen by some of the executives that are actually in charge. And uh I'm like, oh, this all makes sense now. And then my partner got laid off from his job during the bell layoffs. Oh boy. And then our place flooded. And like we were like, You're like, oh my god, whose idea was it to come back to this godforsaken city? What are we doing? Yes, everything's shit. Yes. Let's continue to try for a kid because maybe this is a signal. Yes, right? This is like my brain going, okay, you know what? I'm gonna take cues from the universe here. And that really also went awry and was not working and was such a confidence downer, just in terms of like agency over your own life. You're like, oh, I don't even know if I can make anything happen. Oh boy. This is like bad, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

I and it's that super personal as opposed to professional, right? You can handle the professional.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Exactly. I've pivoted a thousand times, but then you know, personally, I was like, ooh, this is kind of hitting in a different way. Yes. And um, so I really had to stop trying at everything, like entirely. Like that kind of became my new thing. And I just was like, what do I have currently? Because what my life is really great. I'm not here to say like I'm disadvantaged, like I'm very in a very privileged position. I mean, during the pandemic, I went back to live with my family. How many people can just do that? Like we hiked and golfed and skied for a year and a half. Like that's not the bad feel. Things were pretty good. Things were pretty good. Yes. Did I recognize them as that good at the time? I don't know if I did. I was thinking about all these other things. Yes. But um, yeah, so I thought, you know, what happens when you stop trying so hard? And I realized, you know, since I was 17, 18. Yeah. I like I started working in TV when I was really young. I showed up at a TV station and I just went, I'm ready to work. Like I want to volunteer until you hire me. Right. And that's exactly what happened. So good. Yeah. Yeah, it was great. But like, oh my God, how do I how do I recapture that momentum that I once had if there's none? Um so, but I knew like I I've always loved playing music and I I have a great partner. Um, we got married, which was interesting. We wouldn't have done that otherwise. Right. We'd been together for about 10 years, and I was like, we should celebrate with like a big party. Right. So focusing back on what I did have, like really right in front of me and lean into that and stop worrying about all of all the other stuff.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

Easier said than done.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

No kidding. No kidding. But you have so you have experience in TV, in radio, acting, writing, music. Yeah. You do improv. I do. Oh, yes. So I mean your tool chest is pretty extensive. It's jam-packed. It's jam-packed.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

And it still had nowhere to go. Okay. Which is weird. Which is very weird. Well, because I I kept going, oh, well, I can make this work because of all these tools that I have in my tool belt. But the like, I will make this work hustle. Yes. Was just so I don't know. I was taking the nose harder than I've taken them before. And I was kind of I don't know. It is good to have a lot of tools in your tool belt, but it can also be it can be confusing. Yes, very much. Right? Yeah. Do I reach out to Leslie Hawkins? Or do I reach out to that producer on that film set that I met? Right. What is the best move? Who is actually there for you or is the right path to go down? Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Right. Yeah, that's hard. And so you said, okay, that's it. We're gonna sit in the silence. Sit in the silence. Okay. How do you do that? Like, is there a to-do, a to-do list?

SPEAKER_02 22:27

How do we do that? Well, I thought the the worst thing that has come out of this is that my brain can't slow down.

unknown 22:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

Right? I'm thinking about missed opportunities, about potential opportunities, what I should do now to help myself in the future all the time. Uh so I focused on getting my focus back. So I put myself through what I called brain school. And I actually sat. I thought I thought of meditation as a brain thing instead of a spiritual thing. Okay. I got into the spiritual stuff, but I'd say being able to sit, focus on your breathing. It's not that you're focusing on nothing. You actually are really learning to focus on one thing. Okay. And so the practice of focusing on just my breathing, whether there's music or not, uh, so what is like, can you just do that? That's so hard. It's it is. Um, it made me mentally really resilient.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

I would say now on live radio, when I mess up or when I am seconds to air and everything's scrambly and it's really chaotic, I can go like tunnel vision so effectively. And that is not something I was able to do before.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

That's impressive. I have to admit, I have tried meditation, and I keep thinking I gotta get back on that train. Um but I have so many squirrel moments. Yeah. And you know, I I would do it through an app, and this nice calming voice would say, Okay, deep breathing, focus on your breathing, blah, blah, blah. And then, okay, and we're gonna do this for 30 seconds. I was like, Oh, I got 45 ideas floating in my head over 30 seconds. What do you mean we're just gonna focus on so hard to do? It's a a discipline.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

It is. It's a I think it's in the discipline and the practice. It you're not gonna be good at it. So it's letting go of that for high achievers. Okay. You're not gonna be good at it. No, but it's not about that. Okay, it's about seeing what happens. Yes. Which I will say as an improviser, that seeing what happens is is like where my heart lives. Okay. So I could latch on to that idea of it, and maybe maybe that's how you could approach it. Okay. You love seeing what happens, right? Totally with this conversation. So can I sit and just see what happens and not have the expectation of like a certain outcome? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So start sharpening my focus was my first goal because um I was tired of the squirrel moments getting me down ultimately. Because if you squirrel and then things don't happen, or you squirrel and you're exhausted by the end of the day, you just feel depleted. Yes. There's squirreling up where totally bing, bang, boom. I'm feeling amazing. And then there's squirrel squirreling that is very anxious driven.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Yes, yeah. And it it's I find it's easy to recognize those squirrel moments where it's out of desperation or panic, yes, right? Of uh, I need to pay the bills. Whew, gotta figure this out fast. Right. And so in that, as you then focused in your mind, like what were you doing during the days? Were you still sending out emails? Were you still making phone calls, having lunches, networking? Were you doing all of that or not?

SPEAKER_02 26:20

I was, but I it didn't feel like I was.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

So I it was not me waking up and going, okay, this is my whole day.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

It was like I would send that email at 4 p.m. out of actually wanting to and actually having a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

So it was a bit, it was a calmer. Okay. Calmer approach, perhaps. Um, what the quiet moment did is tell me where to go next.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

So I would I I would not say I could sit down and play piano when I was like really anxious about finding my next gig.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

But if you're if you give yourself a quiet moment in between, if you come home and then like, okay, what am I doing next? What am I doing next? Yes. So if I'm in this energy, okay, give yourself a quiet moment. Oh, I open my eyes and I sit down on my piano and I actually am like focused and calm enough to start playing piano. Yes. Okay, from there, oh, you know what? I want to go for a walk. Again, this is like a very, this is a woman who has all the time in the world. I want to recognize that. Because there are moms that are like, how, like, I wish I could do that, right? Right. But like, okay, I have been gifted this time. I'm gonna now follow my instincts to like, okay, piano, okay, then I'm gonna go for a walk. Maybe on that walk I got a really good idea and I knew to reach out to that person. Yes. Then I would email that person. Okay. But it didn't come from a place of like I need to, I need to read to yes. Okay. So it gave me some clarity for sure. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

And so what did that clarity tell you?

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Um, it told me the thing about wanting to be around people. People.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

And that that's what I was currently missing, that my job used to bring me all the time. And I also felt like quite an outsider as a freelancer.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

And that when I would get hired by companies, they could easily shoot me out if like their marketing budget was just different that year. And that I found that really hard because I'm going, what do you mean? I've worked with these people consistently for years, and suddenly they have no need for me. And so I'm just kind of cast out. And I I found that difficult. So I realize how attached I get to people, and I feel very loyal to these companies that I work for. So actually, I need to build something that like that I can or like foster an environment for myself where I feel connected. Okay. Yeah. So where does the improv come in? Were you doing that before? Yeah. So I I started my improv when I first got into television. So this is like 15 years ago. I did all the things at second, all the levels at Second City. Yes. And um I I just loved it. You go on stage with no plan.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

And you learn to trust and trust that things will work out. Okay. So it's funny. I'm like realizing in this moment. I've like taken a maybe applied those to my life now, right? But how do you trust yourself enough to stand up on that stage? I was always like a real attention kind of getting Leo energy kind of girl. Uh so standing up on stage, not a problem, but like just seeing what happens next and um uh letting letting the scene take on a life of its own. Yes. And it really stra I noticed it was strengthening my um on camera uh time, like my uh my ability to talk on camera as I'm like blah, blah, blah. Um, but also in acting as well, right? Like how do you sit in that moment? I think it all comes back to like being really present. Yes. And so it was really serving my work life. So I kept it up, but I also fell for the Toronto improv community and I made some of my best friends there. So good. And when the pandemic happened, I mean, a lot of that stuff just stopped. Stopped.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

And then acting-wise, there was a writer's strike, things have were just completely on hold in the entertainment industry. So I'd say I still pull from those parts of my life in a big way. Um, but they feel like a long time ago.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

At the same time.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Exactly. Yeah. So how long did you sit in the silence before things started to quit a churn?

SPEAKER_02 30:52

I would say um a solid six months of wow. Yeah. Yeah, solid six months. And I would say I am only just climbing out of that now. So I would say like two years that now I can look back and go, wow, I made huge internal shifts. You did. And I'm only still I'm I feel like I'm only scratching the surface of my true potential, I would say. Um, because I feel different when when I and things are starting to come to me.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Instead of me going after them. And I think that's a really good sign. And I'm excited to see where that goes. As long as I can keep kind of returning to those quieter moments. Yes. And being more intentional about what I choose to do, I think I'm on a good, I think I'm on a good path.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Yes. Yeah. So what is your what are you doing? What's consuming your time now?

SPEAKER_02 31:50

So I work at CBC like three to four times a week, sort of thing. Um I'm really enjoying being back in news, which I something I thought I would never say. So I started my career in broadcasting. Okay. I can't believe I'm back there. And honestly, if I hadn't sat in those moments and realized I really miss being part of a team, pulling off a show by the skin of our pants, live radio, this kind of live interaction, that's what lights me up. So it's interesting. Like at the start of my career, I for sure had that. So how do I go back to the start of my career? Oh my God, I'm back in news. Like, I didn't think that. But they also have me doing some sports sometimes. Okay. And I'm going more in that direction because score golf has, you know, served me in the in the realm of sports. Yes. Uh, so yeah, I'm not sure where I will land there, but it's been amazing as a host, as a freelance host, to be able to drop into an environment with such talented journalists and just be ready to go.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

Because I feel very um on and so good. Yeah, right. Like just ready to kind of use these skills that I've been doing for so long, but apply it to a place that I that I really believe in. And that's amazing. And then acting-wise, I always have it in my life. You know, I've had it in my life since I was like 15 or something. Maybe even before that, actually, because I did musical theater. So I've always had hosting and acting together. And um it the entertainment industry in Canada still is like difficult. And you do get a lot of no's. Um, but the more yeses I get in my other areas of my life, I can handle the no's in acting. There's always gonna be no's in acting. Yes. Um, one really cool thing that I didn't expect to happen was uh a friend of mine shot an indie film um in Elmont, Ontario. We we and I was a big part of it. We filmed uh it was a Christmas movie, but a spoof of a Christmas movie. It was such a blast. It felt like summer camp. Yes. I kind of went back to why I became an actor in the first place. Again, to be around a team of people to pull something off. Yes. And I think I think after the pandemic enduring, everything got really siloed. So finding my people again in my different areas uh has been such a win. Uh and so I just want to I need to follow, I think I need to follow the people. Yes, yeah, go where the people are. Go where the people are. Yeah, where your people are.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Where my people are.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

Yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

That's really good. You're very creative. Oh. Which is amazing. Are you writing as well?

SPEAKER_02 34:44

I am. So another thing that happened was the more quiet my brain got, I started bursting with creative ideas, which sounds like you do when you're quiet as well. Yes. And I started, I was able to actually sit down and write. Before when I was sitting in front of my laptop, I would go, oh, I should be emailing this person instead. I should be applying for this job that will actually get me somewhere instead. I should be outside and like just a lot of different pulls. And um, I was able to write my first uh TV pilot last year, which felt like a huge win. Congratulations. It's about golf. That's amazing. It's about women in golf. Fantastic. I'm all in. Yeah, I've been trying to pitch that comedy pilot. Yes. Um, so my creative projects are have even taken taken on a life and have like a certain momentum to them. And I also trust now that I can sit down and write and complete something.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

And I think before I was a little too distracted to really follow through on that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

That's really good. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm looking forward to that pilot getting picked up. I'll send it to you. Yeah, note to self. If there's anyone in the golf industry, yes, exactly. Yes, always are. Always. That's great. And so I'm curious on what is it like to host a news, like a live news update when the news is changing so quickly. Yeah. So much has happened or is happening.

SPEAKER_03 36:23

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

What's that like?

SPEAKER_02 36:26

Um, it's really hard actually, because uh we're doing hourly news updates. So things can change by the hour. Yes. You can build a whole newscast and with your team, and then right before Donald Trump says, actually, no, right. What I said last hour is no longer accurate. Right, right. So it takes a lot of pivoting on the fly. Yes. And you basically have to, so it's a five-minute newscast. You basically have to have other elements ready to go. Yes. So we wouldn't necessarily be running that story about uh the dog in Montreal. Right. Well, suddenly we've got to slide that one in because our plan has just completely fallen to pieces. So as a host, you have to be ready to cold read something. Yes. Um, just yeah, constantly be ad-libbing, pivoting. Uh, but be really in news, you have to be so careful. Yes. Obviously, facts really matter. And you don't, you know, there's bias. You don't want to, uh, you have to have a very balanced newscast as well. These are things that I don't think people realize how hard most journalists work. I will say most, because there are some bad apples, certainly in the states, but how hard we work all day long to not be biased, to be balanced, to, you know, mistakes that are made or headlines that push are pushed out can sound, you know, a certain way. But I think if you were to read and really, really look at all the different properties that are churned out by Canadian journalists and think of them from actually an unbiased perspective, you'd realize how much, how many facts are jammed in there. Right. And how hard people have been working consistently to really get solid truth out there. Yes. And it's it's a difficult industry. I and again, I never thought I'd be back in news. Um I kind of thought news would take off in a different direction and we wouldn't need news as I learned it so long ago in broadcasting school. But I think we need it now more than ever. Yep. And I started to really believe in that again and go actually um the we we need these really boring news outlets. Not that CBC is boring, I'm just saying you need these, these kind of like old school journalistic, traditional institutions. Yes. And uh if everything becomes um a podcast or a not not saying this, yeah, but if if if we just lean on social media for news, we're really gonna lose it. We've lost the plot, I think. So there was something about that that I was like deep down, I am a journalist. I that's what I learned from the beginning, and I want to contribute again to that.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

Yes. Well, and it I think now more than ever, I think the biggest challenge in consuming the news is trying to figure out what's real and what's not. I know. And so it's about anchoring on the people who are delivering the news. Yeah, right. So anchoring on somebody like yourself where you're like, they're trustworthy, they know what they're talking about, they're they're not showing their bias. It's refreshing. Yeah. And is is so needed. Um I think being being in media and being in politics right now must be the hardest jobs. I mean, not to I mean not that other jobs aren't difficult in in that way, but it's trying to get to the truth and trying to discern what's real and what's not.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

It's it's hard. And and I don't think people realize how many rules there are for these traditional institutions that you have to abide by. So our whole job is trying to stay within these boundaries. Yes. And that's what makes the job time consuming and difficult with low resources and and you know, less money and less people working in news, fewer people working in news. Um, but your your whole job is to work within these rules. Yes. So when I hear people say, you know, all news is BS, that kind of thing, then you're going, then what are we doing this for? Yes. All day long. Exactly. If we did just put something out on Instagram as me, Gina, I wouldn't call that news.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

No.

SPEAKER_02 41:09

And people go, you should start your own thing. You should do this, you should do that. And you're going, well, you're not respecting what journalism actually is. If you're truly trying to do journalism, it's gonna be really hard. You're gonna need people and resources, and and so it's it's hard to look at a solo person and going, yeah, they're doing it properly because it's not easy to do properly. No, not at all.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

And you need the team around you. You really need the team. And I have to imagine you need eyes and ears on the ground kind of everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 41:43

Yes, which is why working for CBC is actually incredible because you have people in bureaus all around the world. Yes, and they're the eyes and the ears on the ground, um, talking to the people, really sussing out the situation, talking to their sources. And again, like that, it takes it's not easy to pull off a story about the Middle East. It's it should it should be really difficult, and it is. And then you have politicians, you know, flying by the seat of their pants and saying a lot of different things. So you're really you're trying to keep up and you're trying to keep up in a way that is really responsible. But yeah, some incredible journalists out there. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Full respect to that. I mean, I'm just in my cushy radio studio, and I'm just, you know, I'm like looking at, you know, these some of these incredible journalists on the ground in in bombed out places.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

I mean, I'm not doing what they're doing. It it takes this whole team to to pull it off.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

That's incredible. Yeah. That's amazing. So as you've gone through the anti-pivot, which by the way, I love. And you continue to go through it, what have you learned about yourself the most? What would be like that one salient thing that maybe you didn't recognize at the beginning?

SPEAKER_02 43:05

Um, I I think I realized that if you stop pushing, things can come to you. And maybe that's the biggest nod of where you should go next. Yeah. Uh so having the guts to not push. Yes. And having a sense of trust that maybe you've done enough that you can stop and just see what happens next. See what comes to you.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

Exactly. Okay. That's really good. All right. That's inspiring. So my last question for you is what would be your words of wisdom for the audience? For those who probably need to find some silence and find some focus. Because there's a lot of us out there. I know. We're so down.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Distracted by our devices.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

Yes. We've got a lot of loud people everywhere telling us different things, telling us what we should do, what we shouldn't do. Yes. My biggest fear in this podcast is that people would watch and go, oh, she's just talking about meditation. That's the last thing people want to hear, right? Is go meditate. Yes. But what does it really mean? So it means uh stop scrambling. Right. Trust and be in that moment. Um, and the thing they say in meditation is to focus on your breathing. Yeah. Because that actually gives your brain something to focus on. So it's not that you're thinking about nothing. That's impossible. Correct. That's a lot of pressure also. So can you get into your body? Uh can you truly sit with how you feel? Uh and just give it a shot.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

Yeah. Give it a shot. Okay. And there is some power in the silence. There is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

And it can be really colorful. It's not that it's nothing. It can be colorful and creative. And I mean, I've I was in drama school alongside my broadcasting uh life in university. And I like we do some weird things in acting class. Some really weird things. We do humming, we make weird noises. We have to do weird things with our bodies. So it it's not a stretch for me that I know how to get a bit weird. Okay. Uh so for those, maybe it's like for those people who don't know how to meditate or they're scared of that. Like take an improv class. Right. Do an acting class. Do do things where you are having to be really present. Yes. And put yourself in that environment with people who are not judging you.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

No.

SPEAKER_02 45:52

And it's like that's part of the game. That's that's what improv is. That's what acting is. It's being in that moment and seeing what happens next and making discoveries.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

Yes. And being truly present with yourself. Yeah, being truly present with yourself. That's amazing. Well, thank you. Thank you for talking about the anti-pivot. I love it. Definitely gonna coin that term, but it's amazing to watch what you have done. And what has come out of your silence is an incredible portfolio. You have the talent, you've always had it, you're super creative. But now you've really you're leaning into a portfolio life with meaning and purpose and focus. And I just love the energy.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

Well, I'm gonna steal that portfolio life thing because that is so good. I'm taking that, I'm putting that in my pocket. Yes. Well, thanks for creating an environment where I could narrate this for the first time. I mean, I told you I was scared, right? And I don't get scared easily, but when you're kind of in the middle of a transition, it's hard to know how to talk about it. Yeah. Because you haven't had full perspective yet. Agreed. But I you've helped me realize, like, yeah, there is some perspective there already.

SPEAKER_00 47:15

Definitely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

Well, that's great.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

Well, thank you for sharing it with us. Welcome. Glad I made you uncomfortable, I think.

SPEAKER_02 47:22

Yeah, it's probably good for me.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

Uh that's amazing. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 47:27

Leslie.

SPEAKER_00 47:29

Thank you for joining me today. Wow, that was a fun conversation. The anti-pivot is now made it into my dictionary. Gina is absolutely right that there is power in the pause. And yet it can be so hard to do with the world spinning so quickly around us these days. If this story resonated with you, please share it with someone you care about. And be sure to subscribe so you can continue to hear more pivotal stories involving one question, one turning point, one powerful story. I'll see you next week with another guest on the Leslie Hawkins Podcast.