Nina Purewal - When Your Darkest Moments Become Your Greatest Work

She was climbing the corporate ladder, working all hours of the day and night, but one question kept surfacing: Is this all there is?

So she did something radical by stepping away from everything, sold her house, left her career, and spent a year at a monastery learning about ancient wisdom. What she found in that silence was the emotions she had carried for decades, rooted in an unimaginable childhood trauma, that led to a long and painful work of grief, anger, survivor's guilt, forgiveness.

What she chose to do with all of that is what makes her story remarkable.

Today she runs a company in the mental wellness space, bringing what she learned in her darkest moments into the workplace. Because we have always known, even if we rarely say it out loud: we don't leave work at the office. And we don't leave home at the door.

This is a conversation about what happens when you finally stop running. About the courage it takes to face what's been buried. And about turning the heaviest parts of your story into a lifeline for others.

#pivotalmoment #mentalhealth #letthatshitgo

Lesley Hawkins is a keynote speaker with her signature keynote "The Courage To Define and Own Your Worth", workshop developer (The Leadership Mirror and The Leaders Table), leadership strategist, and storyteller who believes growth happens in the everyday moments that define who we become. 

Drawing on years of experience leading, guiding, and mentoring teams, Lesley brings authenticity, curiosity, and heart to the conversation as each interaction is an opportunity to define what truly matters.

One question. One turning point. One powerful story. 

To learn more about Lesley: www.lesleyhawkins.ca / www.marsley.ca

@the_lesley_hawkins_podcast

The Lesley Hawkins Podcast is a Marsley Canada production.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Leslie Hawkins Podcast. Each week, my guest and I discuss one pivotal moment in their life, what they learned from it and their words of wisdom. She was climbing the corporate ladder, working all hours of the day and night. But one question kept surfacing. Is this all there is? So she did something completely radical by stepping away from everything. She sold her house, left her career, and spent a year at a monastery learning about ancient wisdom. What she found in that silence was the emotions she had carried for decades, rooted in an unimaginable childhood trauma that led to a long and painful work of grief, anger, survivor's guilt, and forgiveness. What she chose to do with all of that is what makes her story remarkable. Today, she runs a company in the mental health wellness space, bringing what she's learned in her darkest moments into the workplace. Because we have always known, even if we rarely say it out loud, we don't leave work at the office and we don't leave home at the door. This is a conversation about what happens when you stop finally running. About the courage it takes to face what's been buried, and about turning the heaviest parts of your story into a lifeline for others. Welcome to the Leslie Hawkins Podcast. I am so grateful that you are here with us today. I would like to introduce today's guest, Nina Purewall. So, first of all, hi, Nina. Welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_05 1:56

How are you, Leslie? Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

So good. So for those who don't know, Nina is the founder of Pure Minds, which is a social enterprise in the mental wellness space. She is also a co-author of an international bestseller called Let That Shit Go, which is an amazing book. We'll hear more about that today. She is also just so busy in the coaching workshop and wellness space. So I'm glad that you're here, that you've carved out some time to come and chat with us because you are a busy woman for all the right reasons.

SPEAKER_05 2:34

Well, I'm honored to be here as a part of your podcast. I love your vision and mission. So happy to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Awesome. So the podcast is built on one question, which is what is one pivotal moment in your life? And the reason it's built on that one question is because, first of all, it's really universal. Everyone's got pivots. Um, some good, some not so good, some that are within our control, and others that are sort of imposed on us. And having gone through lots of pivots in my life, there has always been this sense of wonder, of am I the only person? In some cases, sense of loneliness. And then quickly finding out that actually there's an entire community out there that can help support. And so I wanted to provide this platform for the audience to hear incredible stories about resilience and agility and courage and how people have managed through their pivots in their life, and also to introduce them to incredible people like yourself. So that was the premise, and we're having a great time having incredible conversations. So it's lots of fun.

SPEAKER_05 3:54

I think this is such an important topic. I think the point you make about our pivot sometimes being intentional and sometimes being a result of things out of our control where we have to surrender, uh, we learn. So this thank you for sharing this platform with the world.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Well, let's kick it off then. And let me ask you what is one pivotal moment in your life?

SPEAKER_05 4:22

I've had several pivotal moments, but I'd say the most pivotal in terms of where I am today and what I do is about a decade into my corporate career in sales and marketing. I've worked in startup for a bit. I had my business degree. So I followed that path, very eager to climb the corporate ladder, very passionate about the work I did. Uh, started off in data analytics, ended up in marketing, working on some incredible campaigns. And then suddenly I hit a point of is this life? And that's okay. Sometimes that is life, and that's a wonderful life. But for me, I thought, you know, I wonder if there's another path. Because I had always been a quote unquote spiritual person. Okay. Kind of paralleled the path with the work I did. Lo and behold, in 2010, there was an opportunity to do a one-year course in a monastery in Northern California. Okay. And I thought to myself, it's now or never.

unknown 5:41

Really?

SPEAKER_05 5:43

I had this very strong intuitive feeling that this is something I had to do. The world was in crisis. We were in an economic crisis. Um, you know, housing prices were going up. You know, I was getting older, so you know, if I wanted to family plan, right? Um, so sold the house, quit the job, got a one-way ticket to California. And even though everybody told, you know, me that I was absolutely crazy, yeah, I had to follow my heart.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Absolutely. So most people when they're having a crisis, would say, like, I'm going to like bike across Canada or I'm going backpacking. I don't know that going to a monastery for a year is the most typical response to I need to go and figure stuff out. Yeah. That's incredible. So tell me about life in a monastery because I have no form of reference.

SPEAKER_05 6:55

Yeah. And I'm a big I love traveling. I think traveling the world, my mom used to say, you will be better educated from traveling the world than formal education. Uh, not that I discredit formal education in any way, but I think you learned so much from traveling. So that was in the books. It was kind of like do my MBA, travel, or do this one-year course. That was, you know, all things I was considering. And I knew I would get answers if I did the course. I wanted to fiercely study ancient wisdom, ancient Buddhism and Hinduism. And we had Swamis and monks from all around the world come teach us. It was very formal. Uh, you know, we had meditation at 5:30, we had class at seven, you know, for hours. We had chanting we had to do. We had class all afternoon, we had tests, we had presentations. It was like seven days a week of school. Um, and and I intentionally unplugged. Yes, because I was very addicted to my blackberry or crackberry, as they called him at the time. And so I wanted to disconnect. I was had a very stressful, I was in a very stressful position when I left. I was reporting into the head of marketing in the US. And you know, I wanted to just I was emailing at 1 a.m. I was doing, you know, I just got caught in that circle. Yes. And I thought, no, no, no, I need to do this for me. You need to do something. And I completely disconnected. So I had no idea what was happening in the world all year. And I told my friends and family, if you want to get a hold of me, you can write me a letter. Wow. And I sent and received 120 letters that year.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

That's so good. Handwritten, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Like that's that's back to the core of true communication. Yes. And actually being able to step away from your Blackberry at that time, right? I that was um quite a feat. I mean, today it would be unimaginable, to be honest for most people. It is so addictive.

SPEAKER_05 9:08

100%. It's basically like putting your leaving your phone for an entire year, right? We talk about half an hour breaks or no phones at the dinner table or no checking a full year of disconnection. And what surprised me, I thought I was going in to learn things, the quiet, the no distractions of career of people of tech. Suddenly the shit started coming up of the past. Because that's what we would do on autopilot. We're on autopilot, we go from home to family ourselves, or you know, and suddenly, and this happened a lot in the pandemic with the quiet. Suddenly, people were not as socially engaged or digitally engaged. And it's like, wait a second, what's really important to me? Wait a second, do I even enjoy this friendship? Yeah. Wait a second. And so that happened to me very intensely. It was in the red woods in California, so I had a lot of reflection time walking the forest. And suddenly I realized maybe that's why I was so adamant about having a career so I could suppress and repress the other stuff. So there was learning, but there was also healing.

unknown 10:25

Incredible healing.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

So in the silence, now you have to face your past. And so what were you what were you walking away from or what were you suppressing?

SPEAKER_05 10:40

Well, probably another pivotal moment in my life is when I was 16 and I lost my dad and my brother very unexpectedly and very traumatically, very tragically. And this was the 90s. And there was no such thing as mental health support, wellness support. Um, I saw a child psychologist and a child psychiatrist, but I didn't really address it or heal or even know that I went through trauma or even know that I went through survivor's guilt. There were no words for all of this. I just kind of was like, okay, that happened. Now let me finish my last two years of high school and go to Laurier for business and keep going. Right. And that part got really quiet, but it completely now looking back took over who I was exactly in uh unhealthy ways.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

So your moments of peace and quiet in the monastery take you back to all the trauma that you managed. How do you then deal with it? Because you're right, in the 90s, we didn't talk about mental health. No. We didn't talk about a a lot of things, quite frankly, around the brain and and brain injuries and brain trauma. And it was not it was it was you just soldier on.

SPEAKER_05 12:20

You soldier on, you put on that smile, especially walking through office doors. Yes. Right?

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Yeah, you leave everything, leave it at the door. Yeah, yeah. The expression of you fake it till you make it has been like echoed for decades. Yes. And it's so wrong.

SPEAKER_05 12:39

It's toxic. Toxic. It's toxic. And that's my goal now is to go into companies and take these walls down. Cause guess what? We're all human.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 12:49

And companies expected us to bring work home in the pandemic. So it's just become a lot more integrated, the work home boundaries, right? It's like you get up, you walk your dog, you just do some emailing, you walk your dog, you come back, and then you get the kids to school, then you come back, and then you do some more work, and then maybe walk your dog. You know, you it's integrated.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 13:09

Um, and we brought work home, and now we naturally bring a bit of home into work, and that's okay. We can figure out healthy boundaries. Yes. But the fact is we're human. We're all human and everybody struggles. And the more we see that, the more we feel a psychological safe space at work. And that's what I want to do because I didn't feel that.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

No. So do you mind sharing what happened when you were 16 and and how you how you learned this journey, honestly? Because you've you've been through a lot, a lot more than most people in the world, quite frankly.

SPEAKER_05 13:51

Yeah, thank you. And I think that's such a relative phrase that people go through a lot. Uh, I'm happy to share that I lost my my dad and brother at 16 to a murder suicide. My parents were going through a pretty tumultuous separation. My mom wanted to leave my dad after 22 years of abuse, all, you know, from started out as physical to you know psychological, uh, mental abuse. And again, it was the 90s. So we looked like the perfect family on the outside. My mom was a bank executive, my dad was an aerospace engineer, my brother and I did well in school. He was a soccer coach, we played instruments, you know. Um, but behind closed doors, it was a nightmare.

unknown 14:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 14:36

Um, and my mom kind of made a promise that once my son turns 10, if this is still happening, I'm leaving. And so my brother turned 10. Nothing had changed, things had gotten worse. And so she saw a lawyer. And on December 1st of 96, she served my dad with divorce papers. And then it was six months of absolute hell, if I can say. Um, he was just psychologically um instable. So that culminated in him ultimately wanting revenge on her and taking my brother's life. Um, he did it on a day where she was supposed to come home late. So whoever canceled her meeting that day saved my life because all the detectives on the case basically told me I was lucky to be here still, because that was his his plan. So from a really young age, I've had this ingrained in me that I'm lucky to be here and we should never take a day for granted.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Wow. So, how do you get up the next day in the morning?

SPEAKER_05 15:55

Honestly, I don't know how I did it. I I look back and I think we were just forced to. We just had to. We just did. I mean, you know, my mom hold held a beautiful space for me, and we were, you know, she was my hero and my bestie and very safe space with her, and she was very positive and spiritual. Spiritual path really helped me. Okay. Um, but I think what I completely dishonored was the emotional path. And that's why I repressed and suppressed because there was shame around it. I was the murder-suicide girl at high school. I mean, I had wonderful friends and so much support, and everyone was so loving, but no one understood what I went through. No. People were talking about prom and their crushes, and here I was, like, you know, reliving the crime scene and reliving what happened and feeling tremendous guilt that I couldn't save my brother. You know, so I had nowhere to put those thoughts. Right. I'll say the one place that was incredible and probably saved me was a season center for grieving children.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 17:05

So in high school, my guidance counselor, if I couldn't focus in class, my guidance counselor was great to say, just come down. And she handed me a pamphlet for the season center for grieving children. Nice. And my first meeting was the first time I felt at home. I felt normal.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:24

Because everybody else, other every other teen had lost their parent to drunk drivers or to traumatic car accident or on vacation doing, you know, so it was incredibly healing, but it was such a tiny little part of my life where I could go every once every two weeks and feel safe for an hour. Right. The rest was just, well, I don't want to be, I don't know where to put this. I don't know how to deal with it. So I'm just gonna focus on school and my career.

unknown 17:52

Right.

SPEAKER_05 17:52

And that's what I did. I got my business degree and I went hardcore into my career. Um, I did go through a stage where my brain operated differently. And now I understand looking back that so when you go through trauma, it does impact your functionality of your brain. I wish I knew that because I went from a straight A student to basically not grazing through classes and you know, grazing through uh my exams. And you know, my I I wish I gave myself some grace because I had a lot of shame and just I think I must be dumb now. Right. So um, you know, I had a a prof many years later wanting to do a fireside chat at Laurier. And I'll never forget the pre-call that we had. And she, you know, I said, you know, I would sit in class and I would leave lecture and have no idea what the prof talked about. Yes. And, you know, she said to me, she looked at me through the screen and said, The fact that you got out of bed and you put your books in your backpack. Yes, you put your clothes on and you showed up in class is an absolute miracle. Agreed. And I didn't, I just I balled when she said that because it was a validation that I didn't hear as a 90s kid. No, you know, so my role now is how do I make space so people don't feel alone? There's many, many um avenues to the work I do now, you know, men and mental health, losing my dad to suicide, women empowerment.

SPEAKER_04 19:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 19:35

Um, because I feel like, you know, I grew up seeing my mom never speak up. Um and then in the workplace, it's yeah, creating safe spaces. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

The center that you went to, remind me the name. It's the Chinmaya Vedic Center. Okay. And was that a place you felt safe, but was it also because you you felt understood? Was there resources there that could explain or justify sort of how you were feeling?

SPEAKER_05 20:11

So I will say I was part of the organization as a as a child. Okay. So it was kind of like the church you went to, if you will. Okay. So I knew the organization well, and I knew that they did an incredible job of s separating the religion from the spirituality. Okay. I mean, it depended on the kind of teacher you were working with. There wasn't really a place to talk about emotions in the sense that the focus was high spiritual knowledge. So we are all one, we are all consciousness, you are not the mind, you are not the body, you're not the ego, you know, that kind of um stillness. So I think what didn't help in that year was I continue to repress and suppress emotions and maybe even devalidate them, which I now know to be spiritual bypassing.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 21:10

Or toxic positivity.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Oh, okay. That term I know.

SPEAKER_05 21:13

Right. Uh good vibes only, or you know, God will take care of everything. Yeah. Could be spiritual bypassing, or you know, um, you know, everything is going to be okay, and we're all one, and you know, your brother's connected to you. These were the kinds of answers I got, which really is probably what I needed at the time because maybe the emotion was too much. And it definitely like my spiritual path saved me. My meditation practice, which I still do pretty much every day for the last 20 years, you know, saved me. No doubt about it.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 21:49

Um, but I didn't deal with the emotion, and neither did my mom.

unknown 21:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:54

Um, and so that's coming back from the ashram was a little bit shaky grounds of like. Where uh where do I I brought all the thought where do I go from here?

SPEAKER_00 22:04

Right. Yeah. So that's my that that's where I wanted to go is you come back from California, you've you've been separate from the digital world for a year. Yeah. You've now got all of these emotions. Yeah. And so what happens now?

SPEAKER_05 22:26

What happens now? I had a deep knowing that I wanted to share everything I learned in a practical sense. Okay. How do I make spirituality practical? Because it helped me.

unknown 22:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 22:40

How do I really become aware of the thoughts? How do I know that, you know, you can go from the mind controlling you to you controlling the mind? Okay. Um, how do I lean into my mind as being my, you know, there's a verse we learned your the mind can be your worst enemy or your best friend. How do I do that? Yes. But this was 2011, and nobody was talking about wellness in the workplace.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_05 23:08

Nobody was talking about mental health in the workplace. Um, so I knew from the projects that I worked on at Cadbury before I left for the ashram that I wanted to work in cause marketing because I got to work on the Fair Trade launch and I was always part of CSR initiatives. Yes. So then I worked in startup for a while for an environmental company. Okay. And I called TerraCycle and I continued to parallel my spiritual path, not kind of knowing what to do with that. And in that time, funny enough, I came back from the Ashram and thought, said to the universe, You can throw anything at me. I've got all these lessons now. Like, let's see what you got.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_05 23:48

Yeah. Then my mom got diagnosed with ALS. Yeah. Wow. So then, yeah, it's been, it's been, it's been a lot of grief. Yeah. Um, and I think that's when I suddenly was like, if I don't seize the day now, when the hell am I going to? Now I've lost my entire nuclear family.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:19

Um, I was four months pregnant when she passed.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Oh no.

SPEAKER_05 24:23

So becoming a mother without a mother. Yes. And then I had this epiphany becoming a mom. Um, and just, you know, how do I want to raise my daughter and how do I want her to see the world? And I had this epiphany that I am holding on to so much anger and resentment with my dad. Because all the grief came up again when my mom passed away. I can only imagine. Um, my dad's dead and gone, but I'm still feeling this anger, and I'm still feeling this resentment, and I'm still impacted by it. Yes. So I'm the one that needs to let it go. There's nothing, he's gone. There's nothing he can do anymore.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Right.

SPEAKER_05 25:07

I'm holding it. So then I realized the only way out is through.

unknown 25:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 25:13

And I went on a two-year forgiveness journey with my dad. And that's when I had the grief therapy. Um, I read a ton about forgiveness and how to let go. I was very patient and compassionate with myself. I wasn't trying to right his wrong. That's not what forgiveness is about. I wasn't trying to like, you know, if you want to forgive someone in your life, you don't have to have a relationship with them. You can forgive and never talk to someone again. That's you can forgive someone who's never here. You can forgive and talk it out, but you don't have it's for you. And I realized forgiveness was freedom for me.

unknown 25:53

Right.

SPEAKER_05 25:53

And someone said to me, you know, energetically, we all have a drawer, and there's only so much we can fit in that drawer. Right. And if we're holding on to the old chotch keys from Florida, no offense to them because everyone gets duped with those. And they're collecting dust. They are. What good are they? I get it. And I had so much shit and dust and crap in my drawer that I had to let go of. And so I went on the two-year forgiveness journey with my dad. I went at it through empathy. Okay. He was a man in the 90s, working, struggling, definitely had depression, probably had a bunch of other undiagnosed mental health stuff, should have been on medications. Right. Indian man didn't want to too much shame, didn't want to go there. Yes. Um, and I felt for that. And I turned, you know, 44 a couple of years ago, which is the age he was. And I thought, God, he was my age.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:53

And he had no help. And he was struggling. The rage, you know, all of it. So I went at it through empathy. And lo and behold, um post that the book opportunity landed in my lap. Never wanted to be an author.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:12

I started my business because I thought, you know, I thought I can always fall back on corporate. Yes.

unknown 27:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:19

I can always go back and get a marketing job. You know, I know it's not always that easy. It might have taken me some time. But I thought if I don't try this, I'll never know.

unknown 27:28

Right.

SPEAKER_05 27:29

And so in 2017, I launched Pure Minds. I had two company logos on my website, so excited. Um, and I've never looked back, and here we are, 70 companies later.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

And you're how are you feeling emotionally now? Because you've you've been on a really tumultuous journey. Yeah. And so are you able now to you've gone through the forgiveness journey, but are you able now to sort of regulate your emotions and be really in tune with with where you're at?

SPEAKER_05 28:14

It's a great question. And I asked one of the monks I studied under, like, when do you get there? Yeah. Destination there.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Are we there yet?

SPEAKER_05 28:24

And he, of course, looked at me and said, It is not a destination, it's a journey. So I'm so much better than I was at regulating. Yes. Um, the first chapter of the book is awareness, how to become aware of the mind. And it's something we learned at the ashram, how to become a witness, or the Sanskrit word is a sake, how do you become a witness to your mind? Um, and that, you know, has helped tremendously. Now the world is never gonna change. There's gonna be the roller coaster, it's always gonna be there. And I think that's where we go wrong. We get to a place of comfort, we're like, okay, we're good. Yeah. And then the uncontrollable stuff starts happening, right? Right. So um my practice is very sacred to me. And um, it's something I, you know, love sharing with the world, but of course I'm human. And of course, things still get to me. But um, you know, and some of the older traumas too, when we rewire the brain, when we do the neuroplasticity of recognizing our old patterns and yes, you know, moving into the new, some of those patterns are still there. So I will still have a thought of trauma. It doesn't, it's not like it disappears and mindfulness erases the past. Right. But when that thought comes up, it doesn't make me spiral as much. Okay. It doesn't affect me as much. It doesn't sit there for hours or days or weeks. I can go, I can look at it and go, Yeah, yeah, I see you. I know exactly what's going on here.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 29:53

And I can even hold emotion, right? Like I feel sad or I feel angry. And then we can also go, no, no, no, but we can keep moving here.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 30:03

So the way I process things are different. The way I'm triggered. Yes. And how I manage that is different. Um, but it's learning, and I I keep learning, I keep learning from the books I read, the people I follow, the my clients. Um, but I'm in a really good place with grief and emotion. I feel like I've I've accepted.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 30:25

And even forgiveness, it's not a black and white thing, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

No, not really. Yeah. Interesting. Um and so you now, thankfully, in 2026, mental health and wellness and mindfulness are words that people at least are aware of. Don't know that they necessarily are at the stage yet where we're all wrapping our heads around it. But you move into the corporate world and you offer workshops. And so talk to me a little bit about what Pure Minds does and the work that you do.

SPEAKER_05 31:01

Yeah, thanks for asking. So uh we're a team of six and we curate and customize all of our workshops. So loosely we have 50 workshops on all different topics from how to manage stress and anxiety to driving resilience, you know, fear around AI, empathetic leadership. Um, we have people on the team who do parenting pods for those struggling with balance. Um, we have, you know, meditation, weekly mindfulness and meditation. But the bulk of, I'd say, where are the kind of perfect harmonious places is workshops and just coming into companies, understanding, you know, have they just gone through an acquisition? What are people struggling with? You know, who are am I talking to? Right. Talking authenticity to a group of Gen Zs is very different than talking to authenticity to women, people who identify as women 40 plus.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 31:55

So it's really we curate depending on what the objectives of the company is, whether it's wellness or mental health, general stress or mindfulness. Sometimes I do a mindful 101. Um, and you know, we help them with their mental health and wellness. We kind of try to create a common language for them around, you know, how do you manage your chatty mind, how to let go of the dead thoughts or the things that you can't control. Um, and you know, sometimes we go back every quarter for companies. Um, we also are all coaches. Okay. Um, and everyone on the team is just salt of the earth and their why is from the heart. So you know, you know, when we're coming in, we mean what we do and we do what we mean.

SPEAKER_03 32:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 32:44

And we all have a passion to impact and humanize the work experience, which I think is exactly what we need because the world is spinning. We're spinning, we're being asked to do so much more with our time. We can't find our grounding and balance.

SPEAKER_03 33:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 33:02

So a big thing that we pride ourselves on is the practicality of our workshops. Like you will walk away with a toolkit of how to be mindful.

SPEAKER_02 33:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 33:11

Of how to take a deep breath, of what to do when the anxiety is bubbling.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 33:15

Of how to maybe navigate. In my coaching, I do a lot of navigating corporate um, you know, things like optics and how to manage up, how to advocate for yourself. Um, but in terms of workshops, it's, you know, navigating imposter syndrome, unapologetically showing up as you. Yes. Um, were we just launched a men and mental health workshop called Dudes Don't Feel. Nice. It's actually dudes don't feel dot dot dot. They actually do, they just weren't allowed to. So it's all about, and this is like, you know, the people who were my dads of, you know, who were sitting in those offices struggling. And why, you know, why are we struggling with loneliness? What's behind it? And what are some practical tools we can do to get ourselves out? Right. So um, there's a whole range, and really we're there to support in the way they want to. Yes. It's not like, hey, we have all these well, it's how how can we help you?

SPEAKER_00 34:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 34:09

And we go from there.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

And all of your coaches have lived experience. So it's not theoretical, right? That there's real um personal experiences that they can bring to the discussions, which uh I think uh is completely different, uh, quite frankly, than most workshops and and you know, not trying to generalize. But I think there's a a level of authenticity, yes, because of the lived experience that you all have.

SPEAKER_05 34:38

Exactly. Everybody's there because their why is as such. They their why is they want to help with well meant mental health and wellness because you know, on some level we all struggled with it because of our pivotal moments. Exactly, right? So um, we want to be a support system. They're gonna be upset with me that I'm sharing this, but we call ourselves the corporate care bearers.

unknown 35:03

I love it.

SPEAKER_05 35:06

We sign off as and you know, as a team, it's just wonderful. Like we're trying to embody what we would want other teams to show up, like how we want would want other teams to show up. And so, yeah, we we talk about how we're just there and we want to just put out all this love and good energy and healing and whatever it is that people and companies need.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Incredible. So while you're doing the work for the companies, which is really important in that your pure minds, you're also doing work with the center that helps you for grieving children. So talk to us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_05 35:46

So in 1997, luckily, uh the season center was founded a year prior in '96. We just had their 30th anniversary gala on Friday. Congratulations. Incredible. Rolly Ramy is the founder. He lost his daughters to in a car accident. Oh no. Um, two drunk drivers. And so he founded the Season Center and they're going strong. And Joe, who is also on the Pure Minds team, uh, he's also a best-selling author and founder of his company called Data Gives Back. Um, we are both executive grief ambassadors for the Season Center. So we really help with their strategy, we help with awareness. Okay. Um, we help with uh we're also volunteers for the kids. Okay. Um, so that's full circle. Joe is also a suicide loss survivor. Um, so it has been a full circle moment. And I really I don't know where I would have been if I didn't have that one hour every two weeks to feel safe and feel at home and feel normal.

SPEAKER_04 36:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 36:53

Um, and I learned of a big lesson at the Season Center that, you know, about half the group was spiraling out into addictions. Um, and the other half was kind of picking up the pieces, and I really could have gone either way. Anyone could go either way. And I realized that only I'm in control of my future. No one's going to make me pick up the pieces. So it's my choice to turn this pain into purpose and figure out what to do with it. So incredible.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

Here we are. And the center is is uh going strong, which is great. But it's also uh sad in that way that there's that many grieving children that need those resources. But there's a place where they can go and be seen and be amongst people who have a shared lived experience. Yes. Which I think has got to be so powerful.

SPEAKER_05 37:58

Yeah, it's very powerful because they're in a classroom where they might be said told, make a Mother's Day gift. Oh you know, or kids are saying the word, My parents, my parents, my parents, and they can't they only have one. Yes. You know, so this is a place where all of that is known. Okay. And they'll seldomly have those moments where they don't feel like they belong, which is probably how kids feel at school. And yes, um, in Canada, mental health uh concerns are on the rise, depression's on the rise, anxiety's on the rise, unfortunately, youth suicide rates have doubled. Um, so all the more reason, right, to protect the little people, but protect the the little in us. Yes. And that's what's showing up in corporate, right? Is our little selves that fear that haven't gotten a handle on the imposter. Right. Um, you know, so it's I'm very incredibly grateful that so much of it has come full circle.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

Yes. And that that a center like that exists. Um, it's incredible. So through your journey, how what have you learned about yourself and about your community?

SPEAKER_05 39:18

Oh wow, that's a great question. What have I learned about myself? Ooh, so many things. Um, I learned about I'll start with the community. We have a lot of work to do in all elements. Yeah. Um, and that's why it's like corporate care bears, let's go. Let's just I totally hop in. Um, in some countries it's worse than others where capitalism is really persistent and the work ethic is um driving people into the ground. Yeah. Um so as a community, we know um there's a lot of work to do and and we're here for it. And I loved, I have to say, after seven years of going at it solo, yes, and then launching a team, I really feel that sense of um community and safety, and we're all on this mission together. And, you know, we struggle with wellness because we're there for impact, but we also got to put food on the table, all those tough conversations, right? So, community-wise, um there's a lot of work to do in terms of women empowerment. We are still gravely underrepresented. Yes, as you know, you were an executive woman. So good on you. Um, I think only 8% in Canada are female C C uh CEOs or presidents. Um, I think it's 25 in Canada or 27% in the US. Yes, um, according to Canadian.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Like on the most basic metrics, we've got a long basic metrics.

SPEAKER_05 41:01

So women empowerment workshops, um, men and mental health, I believe addressed that the loneliness pandemic, yes, our epidemic. Um, you know, there's a lot, there's a lot of numbing and repressing going on there. Um, you know, with youth, we have work to do. Um, so just in general, I think specifically with corporate wellness. Yes, there's there's some companies that get it and they've like the Googles, they've got it off the bat. There's some companies I work with, they are having monthly um, you know, keynote speakers on all kinds of topics that other companies I work with wouldn't even touch, right? So I think there's a lot of openness, and I find it's really dependent on the leaders of the organization. Agreed. Um, sometimes it's not the organization that hires me, often it's the leader, like a head of marketing or a head of um finance that is passionate about wellness. So for their offsite, that's what they that's what they bring in. Um, some companies are taking big stance with wellness, some are pulling back. Um at the end of the day, you know, there is so much connection to people, wellness, and happiness, to productivity, to, you know, all of that stuff. What's more important is people wellness. But I don't know if all executives currently out there understand the impact um and the importance and the, if you will, the the financial impacts of both ways of investing in well-being.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 42:29

Um agreed.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

I I mean the basics of it doesn't matter what business you're in, you're in the people business. And if your people are well, if they feel like they belong, if they're seen, if they're heard, if they've if they feel like what they do and who they are matters, then you don't need to worry about business results. You don't need to worry about that because then what will come. Yes. The idea of here's our metrics, and everything is based on your output and hitting these numbers and making investors happy. Oh, and people come secondary is like massively flawed. I love it. And I yet it's pervasive, drives me insane.

SPEAKER_05 43:18

Oh, I have had many uh outwardly challenging conversations with leaders I've worked with around the image. You know, because I I put people over the PLs. Well, obviously, you know, yeah, right. It's just you are nothing without your people. Correct. Um, and so the more you invest in people, the more they're gonna want to work with you. When I was at Cadbury, I did people training. And the one quote I always share in leadership, because I do leadership and executive workshops as well, is your manager is the lens through which you view the organization.

unknown 43:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 43:50

Right? It's as simple as that. So you can work for a challenging company, but if you have a manager that has your back, that you feel safe around, that is investing in you, you're gonna want to come to work every day. And and the But it can be true. You can work for the coolest companies. But if you have a manager that doesn't see you, that doesn't hear you, that doesn't give you autonomy or whatever it is that you're motivated by, not going to show up. You know, yeah. You know, it's important work. And I'm glad you know you're on board. And I think there is a shift happening. And I think by the time Gen Z is in leadership, we won't have these correct challenges because they seem to get it on the level uh we can't. Um and then what have I learned about myself personally? Oh my gosh. I mean, I wrote a book of all the things really Kate and I talk about how that was a long love letter to ourselves. Yes. Because it was all the ways that we weren't showing up for ourselves. Yeah. And I go back and I still read tips and I'm like, God damn, I'm still not doing that. You know, so intellectually it's all up here. Um, but you know, I was a massive people pleaser throughout my whole 20s and 30s, and I still can fall into those patterns. Um, and I realized when I did try I did 20 weeks of trauma therapy about four years ago because I because of the crime scene, I couldn't, that was the last thing I was like really struggling with. I did that with Julie Scott, who's on the team, she's a a healer. Um and the big epiphany was that I walked eggshells around my dad. We all walked eggshells around my dad growing up. So I learned at a really young age how to sit in my own discomfort for the comfort of someone else.

unknown 45:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 45:40

Right? Because it was all like just stay quiet, don't say anything, da-da-da. Like you don't take him, you keep the peace. So, guess what I did my entire fucking life? Yeah, I kept the peace at the expense of my career advancement, yeah, at the expense of pay equity, yeah, at the expense of advocating for myself, right? So there's just so much that kind of rolled in, and that was a big learning for myself. That I struggle to show up authentically, even though you think I would, yeah, and I do. Um, you know, I learned that about myself. I learned that this whole spiritual path, it's work. This whole path of healing, it's work. It's not, it's not fun. It's not always rainbows and sparkles and unicorns. It's going there and doing the heavy stuff and looking. And there's a line we have in the book, you can't let that shit go unless you bring that shit to surface. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 46:43

Right. And that's what happened in the ashram, is I suddenly everything came to surface. That's what happened for people in the pandemic. That's what happens when you leave corporate, maybe, or you make a big change, and suddenly you're like, Oh, yeah, I didn't know all this was here. But that's amazing. Cause as challenging as that is, when that happens, it's like, oh God, now I gotta look at this. Yeah. Yeah. And so I learned, you know, about myself that I did repress and suppress a lot. And I'm just on the still on the journey to kind of pull out anything and everything. And also not just the things, but like how it impacted how I show up now. Yes. As a business owner in relationships, you know. So um just trying to be really diligent with myself to practice what I preach. Yes. Um has been a big, big learning. And of course, like, you know, I'd say lastly, um I've learned about myself that I need to lean in more to my intuition because I do know inherently what it's like to almost not survive the next day. Um, and I think being in corporate for so long, I think with social media, I think the, you know, the environment we're in, we listen outwards, especially if you're a people pleaser, you seek validation externally and you ignore the intuition, the you. And I'm working with a somatic healer right now. And she said, you know, the knowing that you had when you knew you had to go to the ashram. Yes. Find that with every moment, yes, every decision. Because that will tell you. That will tell you.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

Tell you everything.

SPEAKER_05 48:25

We have the most brilliant compass. We we tend, especially as women, people who identify as women, tend to ask everyone, what do you think? What do you think? What are your thoughts on this? We collect the data. And I always say that's why meditation's helpful because that inside voice is louder.

SPEAKER_00 48:41

You just need to let it you you need to be silent enough to let it bubble up.

SPEAKER_05 48:45

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 48:46

So interesting. I have a keynote called The Courage to Define and Own Your Worth. Wow. And a lot of what you were talking about, about just keeping the peace and you know, being a people pleaser and all of that, I learned that very early in my career. That's what I thought, right? To grow my career, I'm just gonna focus on fitting in. I'm gonna be just like everyone else, and I'm going to silence who I am or just be one of the guys, right? That's part of the problem of being in industry where you are the minority and very visible minority. And uh anyhow, so I tell a lot of stories about how I learned the price of silence, how I built the courage to ask for what I deserve, what it felt like, what confidence really is, and that it's actually okay to be unapologetically you because enough already. Where were you earlier in my career? That's what I needed. Here's the thing, we got to go on the journey, right? And it's only as as I've, you know, been on this corporate journey that I've had these aha moments, right? And I started writing, uh I haven't been brave enough as you to write a book yet. It's coming. But is I started writing all these stories and telling all these stories, I was like, there's there's a pattern. And then you start pulling this right, and you're like, ah, got it. Right. And so the f one of the first episodes I did of the podcast was me talking about my pivotal moment, which was that aha moment of all of these things bubble down to I was a people pleaser. And so I shaped myself into somebody that it wasn't authentically me. Totally because it just it it made everyone else around me happy. And as long as nobody was angry and there was no conflict, then like life was good. Yep. Problem is, is you become a pathological liar to yourself, to those around you, and now you can't figure out what's up and what's down.

SPEAKER_05 51:11

And who you are, and who you are. Yeah. Wow, that low therapist.

SPEAKER_00 51:16

Yeah, it's like there's an entire industry. Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 51:19

This is why we're here.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

This is why we're here.

SPEAKER_05 51:21

And yeah, again, women in the workplace. And I saw my mom go through this. So, you know, she was an exact an IT exec at the bank. It's a it's it's been challenging. And we we all there's epigenetics, right? Men are the providers, yes, women stay home. It was only maybe our parents or grandparents' generation that we started seeing women in the so we almost feel like we have to have permission. That's how we show up. Like, oh yeah, is it okay? Like, no, no, no. We have to own that. Yes. Um, and again, there's so much here to unpack, but I love that we've at least acknowledged and we know there's work. And I, and this is where I say men also, people who identify as men play a big role in women empowerment. Agreed. Because they're currently making the decisions, right? They're currently in the power. Yes. Um, so that's I love that you do that, and I love to see the shift that's happening. But authenticity is something we struggle with, and I think it's a lot to let go of what people think um in the workplace, especially as an executive woman in this day and age.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

Yeah. I think there's also like I'm a Gen X. So we grew up with head down, like you work all the hours God gave you to move up the corporate ladder, work, work, work, work, work, work. Yeah. And then you see the Gen Z. Wait a minute. So you're telling me it's not all work. And there was this narrative a few years ago of, well, they're lazy. I'm like, no, they're not lazy. They just get it. They're smart. By the way, they're far more intelligent than we are, and they've got it figured out. We're the ones in the wrong. The challenge is that the Gen Xers are the ones that tend to be the leaders in the organization. 100%. And so they're driving the culture of work, work, work, work, work because that's what I did, right? So I had to pay my due, so you're gonna pay your dues. Like doesn't work that way.

SPEAKER_05 53:24

Doesn't work that way. I see this constantly with my clients, this dichotomy of how what a healthy work life is, and maybe what can feed into the toxic patterns and this this conflict. Yes. This conflict going on right now. It's very um potent. Yes. So I'm interested to see how things shift. And the leaders who are shifting with the times are the ones that are winning. They are, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:53

The ones that are at the forefront, yeah. Well, and I'm very grateful that you and your organization are pushing the conversations, having the honest conversations, leading these workshops, because the conversations need to be had, right? And I think there's no lack of interest, I think, from people in corporate world or people in general. It's just the how and who do I talk to, and what do I know up from down? And I mean, one of the things about your book that I love is that you mindfulness can is one of those words that gets thrown around. You're like, what is that? Yeah. Is it yes, is this all woo-hoo? And am I just meditating? And what is that? Yes. And so uh I congratulate you on your book.

SPEAKER_05 54:44

Thank you. It's interesting that you say that because when we launched the book, we almost walked away from the book deal.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

Interesting.

SPEAKER_05 54:52

Uh, because they wanted to call it fuck meditation. Oh, shh. Uh, and Kate did a great job of, you know, saying that's a really disrespectful way to talk about a sacred practice to some people. Um, and it's kind of like we were both marketers, right? So who are you targeting? Yeah. I got their their intent was like, forget meditation. We have no time as women, as humans. We don't, you know, so they didn't want to have people overwhelmed with meditation. How do we easily kind of get have mindful moments? Was the whole intention. Yes. Um, and eventually, you know, we ended up pitching the chapters, and the first chapter was mindfulness, and the second chapter was meditation. And they they came back and said, This is too overwhelming. This is 2019. This is too overwhelming for people. Can you write the whole book on how to be mindful but not use the word mindfulness? And that's that was kind of the looks on our face. And we said, This is a 10,000-year practice that we didn't come up with. So we're gonna give it honor.

SPEAKER_02 55:56

Right.

SPEAKER_05 55:56

But the last two chapters are mindfulness and meditation. And if you read the book carefully, which nobody has to, but there's no mention of the word mindfulness until the second last chapter. That's why it's called the reveal. Because then we say, Hey, yes, by the way, these are all the things you did to achieve it. And that's where the practicality of mindfulness is so important and telling people it's for everyone. We can all do this. Yeah, we can, and that is has been a challenge going into offices and saying, you know, breaking down any type of mental barriers around the fact that mindfulness does help with productivity, yes, with efficiency, with overall happiness. And now, I mean, I've been studying this stuff since the 90s, but now there's, you know, uh, you know, Harvard psychologists and psychiatrists that are getting behind, you know, the science behind mindfulness. They've done MRI scans of the brain to see there are structural changes in the brain with practicing. So good. There's just been so much progress that has helped. Yes. Um, but this is science. Mindfulness is science. Yes, it's grounded. It's it's grounded in a lot of science. And so um, yeah, that that was kind of the mission is like, how do I take this incredible wisdom? And, you know, how do we make it applicable to the workplace? And it's because people are struggling. And I was one of those people that was living this double life of struggling at home, but showing up to work and, you know, doing well. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:33

Sunshine and unicorns and everything's great.

SPEAKER_05 57:36

Exactly. And doing the things and and just like you, you know, behind the scenes, going, hang on, I don't feel like myself. I don't think.

SPEAKER_00 57:44

Yeah. Now, I didn't go away to a monastery for a year. I will tell you that. I just went down the road to the my therapist.

SPEAKER_05 57:53

But eventually you were like, you know, I want to try something different. Yeah, totally. Right. It catches up at some point. I think when we reflect, yeah. We're like, are, you know, what are we, what are we here for? What is my purpose? Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:10

And the hope is that you don't have a catastrophic event that forces you into that aha moment.

SPEAKER_05 58:18

Yeah, I always say that. I say if you can gain the wisdom without having to go through the, you know, uh you said it perfectly, catastrophic event. That's the ultimate. That you can just learn the lessons. And that's something I'm, you know, I try to do now is like, yes, let's all learn the lessons here.

SPEAKER_00 58:35

Amazing. Yeah. My last question for you is what would be your words of wisdom for the audience?

SPEAKER_05 58:43

My words of wisdom would go back to my original why and my passion, which is giving people hope through adversity. So I would say no matter what you've gone through, no matter where you are in life, no matter what tragedy or what trauma, it's not always an easy path, but you can turn that pain into something purposeful and do something with your life that you feel is close to your heart, that you are passionate about, that you love doing by doing the work and shifting that that pain and going there would be my wisdom because we all we all have a knowing and a purpose inside. And sometimes, you know, when we go through challenges, it gets us closer to that. I always, you know, now I'm almost grateful for the incident with my not grateful. It's a kind of a funny way to say it, but I am. I think about like if that didn't happen, yeah, I wouldn't be who I am.

unknown 59:54

Right.

SPEAKER_05 59:54

So it's almost like, how do we take these atrocities and turn them into uh, you know, an empowerment? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:03

Exactly. Well, thank you. Uh thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for being here. You are making a huge difference in the world. And you're touching so many people's lives. And I think you're giving people the tools to help them manage everything that life is throwing at them. And I commend you and your team at Pure Minds. And I I am a huge champion of yours. I will cheerlead you forever. I think what you're doing is really making a difference in the world. And it's it's so sad and heavy, everything that you've been through. Um, but the world is a better place because of all the work you're doing. So thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:48

Thank you, Leslie. Thank you so much for having me on. Thank you for asking us all what are these pivotal moments and making a change in the world yourself and just having that ripple over to impact. So so appreciate the work you're doing and having the courage to make the jump from corporate to passion. Uh, so thank you for your work. Appreciate you. You too.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:12

Thank you for joining me today. Nina's story is both inspiring and quite frankly, gut-wrenching. She has lived through so much, and yet she continues to do the work to heal herself and help others at the same time. I totally agree with her assessment that we have so much more work to do. And yet, with amazing people like Nina, I'm more optimistic of the progress we can make together. If this story resonated with you, please share it with someone you care about. And be sure to subscribe so you can continue to hear more pivotal stories involving one question, one turning point, one powerful story. I'll see you next week with another guest on the Leslie Hawkins Podcast.