Michael Burgess - Nice It Up with Nerpy’s

For our guest, food is where his story began, working in his uncle's grocery store from an early age. After college, he returned to Jamaica to run his uncle's food manufacturing plant before eventually making his way back to Canada to build a career in sales. 

Then the economic downturn of 2008 arrived, and with it, a pull back toward his entrepreneurial roots that he could no longer ignore. What followed started with a single article in a magazine, one recipe, and a university food lab.

Today he runs a Jamaican hot sauce business built on a commitment to authenticity that goes back to the soil, truly farm to table before that phrase became a trend.

#pivotalmoment #entrepreneurship #roots #niceitup

Lesley Hawkins is a keynote speaker with her signature keynote "The Courage To Define and Own Your Worth", workshop developer (The Leadership Mirror and The Leaders Table), leadership strategist, and storyteller who believes growth happens in the everyday moments that define who we become. 

Drawing on years of experience leading, guiding, and mentoring teams, Lesley brings authenticity, curiosity, and heart to the conversation as each interaction is an opportunity to define what truly matters.

One question. One turning point. One powerful story. 

To learn more about Lesley: www.lesleyhawkins.ca / www.marsley.ca

@the_lesley_hawkins_podcast

The Lesley Hawkins Podcast is a Marsley Canada production.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to the Leslie Hawkins Podcast. Each week, my guest and I discuss one pivotal moment in their life, what they learned from it, and their words of wisdom. For our guest, food is where his story began. Working in his uncle's grocery store from an early age. After college, he returned to Jamaica to run his uncle's food manufacturing plant before eventually making his way back to Canada to build a career in sales. Then the economic downturn of 2008 arrived, and with it, a pullback towards his entrepreneurial roots that he could no longer ignore. What followed started with a single article in a magazine, one recipe, and a university food lab. Today he runs a Jamaican hot sauce business built on a commitment to authenticity that goes back to the soil, truly farm to table before that phrase became a trend. Welcome to the Leslie Hawkins Podcast. I am so grateful that you are here with us today. Please join me in welcoming today's guest, Michael Burgess, who is the founder and CEO of Nerpees, which is Jamaican spices and seasoning. And we're going to learn a lot more about that. So welcome. Glad to have you here.

SPEAKER_04 1:23

Thank you. It's a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

So good. So this podcast is anchored on one question, which is what is one pivotal moment in your life? And the reason that is the question is because, first of all, it's highly universal. Everyone has lots of pivotal moments, some which we control, some which are imposed on us. And it's about sharing the stories of resiliency and how people manage through those different pivots, good or bad. And so this platform was really created to share those stories and for people to meet amazing people like yourself and learn about this incredible business that we're going to learn about today. So welcome. Really glad you're here.

SPEAKER_04 2:10

Yeah, thank you. It's a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

So let's just jump right in. What is one pivotal moment in your life?

SPEAKER_04 2:19

So I've had several as it relates to this business. Um the pivot for me was uh the economic downturn in 2008-2009. Um it I was working a corporate job, um, doing corporate sales, um, and while working for um this company, um our sales cycle and the close ratio started to stretch further and further apart. And it got my um mind moving back towards the entrepreneurial spirit that was kind of um in uh in I guess um uh hibernating while I was working in this corporate environment for all these years. And so I started reading about um just you know what was happening in in in that space, things like read going through um publications like entrepreneurial magazine, small business magazine, things like that. And I came across an article that um was about the hot sauce business in the US, and it mentioned how big the market was there and how big it was um forecasted to go or to get to. And um so I'm like, wow, this is um kind of interesting. Now um in in my uh earlier life, I've always had exposure to food. Um uh I I I I enjoy food, I like to eat, I like spicy food. So for me, the the association was was was pretty easy to to to um um um to get into my head. And but I'd never really made a hot sauce before or anything like that. So but like I said, I liked I liked spicy food and I like pepper and things like that. And you know, growing up in Jamaica, uh, you know, scotch bonnet peppers are pretty much part of every meal, like we cook with it and our rice and peas and pretty much everything we eat. So yes, um, so I understood it. Um, you know, uh, I was very familiar with that side of it anyway. Um, and so, but also too, I was looking for a side hustle because um, like I said, I you know, or um or close ratio was uh with with with with that business was um um was a little bit more challenging during that time. And um so I thought this was a good opportunity. So that became something that I shifted my mind towards and started investigating this um this business and looking up recipes and things like that. So so yeah, in that um downturn, there became an opportunity for me. And uh, you know, when you look at businesses in general, a lot of times um when they're when there's um a downturn in things or whatever, the those those times actually create opportunities.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 5:24

Um so yeah, so that became um the shift in my mindset, and uh I started doing my R D and yeah, I just kept on plugging away at it, and now here we are.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

So how big is the hot sauce business, or how big was it then?

SPEAKER_04 5:43

So uh globally it's a billion-dollar industry. Um I would say if if my memory serves correct, it's about a three billion dollar industry globally. Um in in North America alone, it's you know it's millions of dollars. Um and what is what was interesting in that uh article that I read, they said that hot sauce is going to become the catch-up of the future.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_04 6:08

And when you think about it, um as as demographics change and as populations move, you will always have uh an integration more so of different cultures. Yes, and with that the different cultural foods. And as you can see here in in in in um in Ontario or in Canada and across North America, there's uh been what I would and I you know, I remember um you know, with a friend of mine at one point, we were working together, and uh he hadn't had jerk chicken before.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Right.

SPEAKER_04 6:42

You know, Canadian uh guides never really got exposed to that before. And then when you when we introduced it at our office, um, you know, I said to him, I'm like, Well, do you like spicy food? He's like, No, not really. And so I got him uh some Jamaican food, but it was um um uh it wasn't jerk chicken, it was uh something else, stew chicken, so it was milder. Yes, and then eventually he worked his way up, he tried that, and then he's like, Okay, I want to try this jerk chicken, you guys are talking about. So, anyways, you know, now I remember you know, layers later he sends me this picture and he's you know, grilling in his backyard, he's got a jar of my jerk and he's doing his own stuff at home, right? So um the the the movement and the appreciation for the spicy foods, while it takes a little bit to sort of um uh acclimatize to the in the palate, so to speak, um, once it happens, there's almost no going back. Right, exactly. And that uh I has happened throughout um I think throughout uh the foodie world, so to speak. Um, and especially in the younger um demographic of people, there are more like I see kids when I do shows and stuff like that that like you know come up and they're like, yeah, get the hottest one. Like they're telling their parents.

SPEAKER_03 7:56

What?

SPEAKER_04 7:57

Right? So um I see it more and more, and then you have you know, shows that we're like as we were talking about earlier, like that are um where you know there's there's there's fun kind of things like you know, with a program hot ones, like you know, there's everybody that's doing it, and it's become it became a viral thing after just being like this underground little YouTube thing. Now it's uh you know a syndicated program. So it just highlights how um throughout the world, like you know, people are eating more and more spicier food. So uh here in Canada, that market continues to grow. Um, you know, for me, when I um had an opportunity to pitch uh one of my retail partners, uh I remember sitting in with the buyers and they they said to me that this is literally um pun intended the hottest category we've seen in years.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Really?

SPEAKER_04 8:46

Yeah, and it continues to grow. Okay, it continues to grow. The market, you know, and what you know, I remember when I got into the business, um, one of the things that people said to me, it's a very competitive space to be in. Um, you know, there's a lot of hot sauces out in the market. I'm like, really? Well, that's good because um that that means that there is a space, yes, and it's just a matter of me carving my niche within that space so that I can get my spot.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 9:15

You know?

SPEAKER_01 9:16

So you you start this as a side hustle.

SPEAKER_04 9:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Like how do you figure out a recipe? How do you source it? How do you make it? Like, what does that journey look like?

SPEAKER_04 9:30

Yeah, so it's a lot of reading. I spent a lot of time um looking at um other companies that I knew of. Um so I'll take you back a little bit. When I was in high school, um one of the first jobs I had when I came to Canada from Jamaica was one of my uncles had a grocery store. So I worked in grocery. Um, and you know, when you work in family business, you start at a very young age. So 12 years old, I was in a grocery store packing there, unpacking boxes of of yam and bananas and cans of uh whatever and bottles of whatever from all our suppliers and putting in stock. I was a stockboy, right? So I did all that work. So I um so I grew up in the grocery business, but at the same time or in the food business. But um what I knew were brands um that were hot sauce brands that were um whether they were from Barbados or from Jamaica or from Trinidad or wherever, um, or you know, um and and I knew the you know the North American brands like um, you know, um, you know, a lot of these US brands. But um so I knew what brands and what products that I liked.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 10:41

And so I kind of I went back and I looked them up and you know, not having access to the internet and and things like that, or and and going going to um going to indigo and pick just reading books, right? You know, um so I did a it it was a little bit of of or a lot of reading, but I also had some familiarity with uh those other hot sauces. So I knew kind of what their what their um kind of overall um profile was.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 11:12

And um uh and so I started to uh in reading some of these books, um, you'll find recipes. So I wrote down some recipes and um thought about what I wanted to create. And when I decided, okay, this is what I'm gonna do, one of the things that I found um through that was common throughout a lot of these products was that um there was a high sodium load, number one, uh a lot of vinegar, and a lot of preservatives. So for me, an artificial preservatives or food coloring and things like that. So what I wanted to do, I didn't want to create a product that had those things because to me, I wanted to create a healthier alternative with what I was gonna make. So um the first thing was no artificial preservatives and no uh food coloring. That became the challenge.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 12:10

So figuring out how to make a product that would be shelf stable uh without any artificial preservatives, so I had to learn what natural preservatives were that I could implement into this recipe. Um how I would create the color without using dye number seven or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

Right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 12:34

Uh so I, you know, uh I looked at um, so I started doing that, so that became another part of the research.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Right.

SPEAKER_04 12:41

And figuring out what the ingredients were that I could use in terms of like fruit and vegetables that would um help to um create one uh uh thickening work as a thickening agent. Um because a lot of hot sauces use things like um gel and gums, or they'll use like cornstarch, or they'll use um Right to provide some solutions, yeah, to kind of um keep everything together because naturally when you add water or vinegar, the the you know the product's gonna separate.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 13:10

So they they'll add those things as a binding agent to um to bring those things together. So, anyways, um yeah, so I started looking at what what fruits or vegetables I could combine, one to give the flavor, but also to act as you know, a binding agent, um, and help with the color um and what other spices. So um I created a recipe. Um, one of the first recipes I made was a mango scotch bonnet, uh hot sauce. The scotch bonnet, obviously coming from my Jamaican roots. Yes. Uh the mango as well, too, actually. Um but then I used something uh I used a squash. Uh in Jamaica we call it chocho. In um the Spanish call it chayote. So I used that scot, that, that squash as uh as my binding agent. Oh um and thickener. Um and then I also added carrots to it. So it became like a fruit and vegetable-based hot sauce. And those those two items, the carrots and the squash, became my my binder and thickening agent. And then um I added um, I did I one of the hot sauces I would look was looking at um are a lot of hot sauces from the Caribbean have mustard in them.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 14:22

Um, I didn't, I'm not a huge fan of mustard, so I didn't want mustard, but I wanted that kind of that yellow color.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 14:28

So I used turmeric instead.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Okay, good call.

SPEAKER_04 14:32

So um, and then eventually as I was building out these recipes, I I eventually realized that I needed a little bit more scientific assistance. And so I ended up going to the University of Guelph, um, working with their food lab there. Um and by this point I had three recipes that I had developed. So I went to the University of Guelph and um they helped me sort of tweak um my ingredient deck in terms of uh shelf stability, um, colors, um, and things like that. And uh after multiple iterations of and and a lot of money in the RD, um the uh the research was done and I was ready to go to market. Okay, which is about a year and a half later.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Yeah, so that's a major labor of love, yeah, right to start. Yeah, where's the name Nerpies from?

SPEAKER_04 15:28

Yeah, this is a funny story. So um in 1995, I got a job opportunity. Sorry, I was I was in college, '94, sorry. I was in college, and one of my uncles um owns a company in Jamaica, uh, came up here and he was looking for someone to help him run his manufacturing plant in Jamaica. And at the time I was in college, but I was also doing something else. I was modifying and racing cars at this time. I had a I had a side hustle doing that.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

So this is Okay, that's a totally different side hustle. Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_04 16:09

So I used to um yeah, I used to race cars and uh I sell car parts like uh to to like back in the day before Fast and Furious actually became a whole movie series. We were already doing that here.

SPEAKER_02 16:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 16:19

So I had to shop in Scarborough and um I used to sell well, how I got into that actually. I used to friend of mine actually in Florida before okay, so the segue is kind of funny. I started selling the neon lights that were that people used to put underneath their cars, right? Um, a friend of mine in Florida told me about this thing and how it was like all over South Beach and in Miami, where all these guys were doing this thing, and he I'm like, What? And I'm like, he's like, Yeah, and he sent me this picture of this thing, and I'm like, yo, that's pretty cool. Can you send me a kit or can you get a kit? Like, how do I get access to this thing? And uh anyway, he sent me this kit. I I took it, I put it on my girlfriend's car at the time, drove into a tint shop and stereo shop, and I said, Listen, I got something real cool to show you guys. Yeah, um, but I need you to like let me go in into the back garage, turn the lights off, and I'll show you what it is.

SPEAKER_05 17:05

And everybody's like, What's happening? I'm not gonna rob you, like, don't worry about it. You know, like you got trust me, I got this. Yeah, you can get a uh like you know, whatever wrench out in your hands, and you know, if anything goes haywired.

SPEAKER_04 17:17

So, anyways, I go in the back, flick the lights off, and then I flick my lights on for the neons, and everybody's like, Whoa, like what is that? And then told them about it. So cool. It became a segue into that industry for me. And then um through selling those those kits, I end up I started selling some other parts as a as the business evolved. And so um, as I was doing that uh while I was in college, um it created this other opportunity to work with someone else um who was a who was a mechanic who was into the performance parts or car scene, and I liked that scene. I already had a um uh jazzed up car, and you know, I liked that whole I had that adrenaline junkie kind of mindset. So, anyways, I got into that and then um yeah, so while I was doing this, however, uh we had this, so we had this um shop, and then we had an issue at the shop, and so at the same time when my uncle came to me from Jamaica, he's like, you know, like are you going back to school? Like, what are you doing? You know, I'm like, well, I have this car park business, whatever. But at this point, the shop had closed down. I was kind of doing this business at my mother's house and in my mother's garage. He's like, you can't be like fixing cars, you move cars. I'm like, this is just temporary. He's like, well, listen, I have an opportunity for you. Um, if you want to consider coming back to Jamaica and uh working with me at the factory, um, managing a factory. I'm like, I've never run a factory before. Right. He's like, you've managed people before, you understand business. Like, I need somebody that I can trust, I need leadership, and you have that skill set. So um the opportunity is there. And I said, well, let me think about it. So some time passed, and uh we we never ended up going back into another shop. And so uh winter was coming, and I was like, Well, you need to figure out something. Like, what are you doing? Do you want to come? You know, like do you want to go through another winter?

SPEAKER_05 19:10

I'm like, yeah, that's a good selling uh uh feature there.

SPEAKER_04 19:14

Yeah, no more winter. So I pulled the trigger and I ended up going to Jamaica. Okay, working in this factory, and uh yeah, it um um kind of opened up a lot of doors for me in Jamaica in terms of uh network contacts. I mean, I had always kind of maintained a friendship with Jamaica. My mom had worked with the Airlines for years, so I used to fly back and forth to Jamaica all the time.

SPEAKER_03 19:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 19:36

Um, when I was I I also used to be a DJ. When I was DJing, I used to fly to Jamaica, buy records, and come back up and play music at stuff in the clubs and stuff like that. So um I've done a lot of different things.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

I was gonna say, you're quite the entrepreneur. Like there's multiple hats happening here.

SPEAKER_04 19:51

Yeah, so um, yeah, so I I still had like I had all these contacts in Jamaica. So going to work in Jamaica, um, outside of working within the family business, if I had some challenges and stuff, I could I had friends and contacts here that I could speak to about some of the challenges and things that I was uh um uh going through in the business, or if I need to contact somebody about um, you know, whether it was security at the plant or it was uh material or whatever it was for production and things like that, um, or even just relating to the people in the fat in the in the plant. Like um, you know, I had a network of of friends that I could um um and you know, talked about different things. So the segue in going back to Jamaica was pretty cool, and so it kind of um, and that was sort of it uh a catalyst to doing other things within food. I mean, it's funny too, because I ended up I when I first got to Jamaica, everybody's like, yo, so when's the party? Yeah, people who knew me from my party and DJs. I'm like, this is not gonna come back here to do any parties.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Actually, working here, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:53

So sure enough, a year later I started having parties.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Yeah, of course you did, of course you did, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:58

But um, yeah, so anyways, um uh that was uh how I ended up in Jamaica and and uh um in my journey back into food in in one respect, and um um we eventually sold that plant and then I got into wholesale frozen food distribution because we opened up another business. Um and so um did that for a couple years. Um and so kind of it that that transition um allowed me to do a lot of different things because um we were I was selling and it can't it's funny because it kind of comes full circle because uh we were now selling product that was selling like wholesale frozen food, like frozen chicken, chicken parts, and then I expanded the line to like other meats and seafood and okay. And then um, so we were selling to grocery stores and hotels and restaurants and things like that, which is exactly what I'm doing now.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Yes, exactly, exactly coming full circle.

SPEAKER_04 21:59

Yeah. Um And then I had a friend of mine that uh left uh Canada as well, too, and he wanted to come uh back to Jamaica, but he wasn't sure what to do. He had a farm actually um just off ninth line here um down by the Holland Marsh. And I asked him, I said, Well, do you guys still have the farm? He said, Yeah. I said, Okay, well, here's what you do. Because I knew what inventory grew in the Holland Marsh and how nice that was. Yeah, yeah. What how great the crops are that come out of there. So I said to him, Listen, how about you call your wife and tell her to pack a small container for you and ship me some onions, some carrots, some potatoes from the marsh, and I'll bring it here to my uh facility and I will sell this to my to my within my network, and then this will be your segue to go and do the exact same thing, but outside of um I was in Kingston, so I'm like, you can go and do sell to the rest of Jamaica. Yes, go to the country, yeah, Montico Bay, Otarios, wherever, but like um I I I will take care of Kingston.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Correct.

SPEAKER_04 23:00

So it gave him an opportunity and um gave us some more diversity in our product offerings at uh the wholesale. And um ironically, later on, he started a restaurant and he had uh had asked me about sampling something when I went back there in 2008. And uh um one of the things I said to him was that the so they started cooking food, and I was like, the one thing this needs is is hot sauce. And he brought me this hot sauce, and um I tried it and it was like amazing. And I said to him, I'm like, listen, you need to bottle this and you need to put this on the road. Yes, and uh foreshadowing. So yeah, foreshadowing, very much so. So I came back to Canada with that, and I brought obviously some of that pepper sauce back with me, too, and it became actually uh a model that I tried to um um base my sauce was as I was doing my development.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 23:56

Um, so yeah, a lot of those things just kind of it was funny how everything became so intertwined in that whole in in this whole journey. And a lot of these things um happened for me just really organically that way.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 24:10

So the name Nurpes came from being in Jamaica and hanging out with all my friends there in Jamaica, and we were at a party one night. Um, so while there, uh we're at this golf club and outdoors, and all of a sudden these kittens just were coming out of nowhere. So I guess a cat had had a litter. Yeah. So uh myself and a couple friends were up on the uh uh veranda talking, and uh where we were and where these kittens came out, um it you kind of had to go past us to go to uh the washrooms. So, of course, as the you know, as as young single men, um, you know, um we were you you as the ladies are going to the washrooms or coming back, um we had an opportunity to, you know, just chit-chat. Chit-chat. Exactly. Um the hook became the joke with these kittens running around. And I there was a story up here that I had been in a similar situation. I had a friend who we were at a pool hall and that actually happened. He started, and the the fellow who was trying to round up the kittens, um, my friend is a is all is a comedian, and he started mimicking the the cat's meows. Of course, every time the the guy went over that side, he would do the meow and he would come back over here. So we had this guy spinning around in circles looking for these kittens. So I kind of did the same thing, except I did it in a way to create some attention with these young ladies so that they would come over and like where is there a kitten? Of course. Um, next thing you know, uh, you know, and we're of course we're drinking, and yes, so uh as we as as the night progressed, the meows kind of got a little uh slurred, and um it became a NERP. And uh so good. It was yeah, the meows became a NERP, but next thing you know, um I well at the end of the night, or the next day, sorry, we go to the beach, and my friend uh says to me, He's like, How are you feeling today? I'm like, Yeah, I'm good. He's like, You remember last name? Like, yeah, yeah. He's like, I'm gonna make that, I'm gonna make that name stick. I'm like, what are you talking about? Yeah, he's like, Nerp. So he walked down the beach, and uh he told everybody on the beach, call Michael Nerp, call him Nerpy, call him Nerpus, call him whatever. Uh, and he just walked down the beach. And every time I went somewhere, he was behind me, Nerp. And uh it became his running joke. And to this day, like every time I went back to Jamaica thereafter, I would reach you know the house and I'd call him like, hey guys, I'm here, and everybody would be like, NURP. And so uh when I was starting the business, um, I wasn't sure what I was gonna call the brand. And uh uh my girlfriend said to me, Why don't you just call it uh Nerpe? That's what everybody calls you. I'm like, no, it's stupid, like it's ridiculous thing.

SPEAKER_05 27:04

I'm not gonna the whole thing is just yeah, the whole name is just based on just a stupid nonsense, ridiculous story. She's like, Yeah, exactly. So exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:15

So, anyways, I um I went with it and um yeah, now NERP is in every household so good.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

I love it.

SPEAKER_05 27:24

Yeah, households all across the country. NERP is now this brand, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

Okay. So you spent a year and a half building it with or doing some of the RD with the University of Guelph.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Then you're ready to go. And are you bringing product in from Jamaica? Are you buying it here? How do you actually like hit the ground running and launch this brand?

SPEAKER_04 27:52

Um so through um the food lab, they had to source ingredients as well too. So they gave me um some connections to some suppliers. But remember, I told you about the fact that I worked in grocery as a kid. When I was working in that grocery store, my uncle used to take me, or we used to go down to the food terminal to buy product. Right. So I already knew about the food terminal. I had I had walked the food terminal when I was, you know, 12 years old, 14 years old. So I already knew about the food terminal. So I knew that as a source to get um product or get produce. Um, and then these guys at the food lab, um, there's other wholesale suppliers that you could buy from. So they put me in contact with them, and then I eventually went down and set up an account with the food terminal, and I was buying stuff through the fur terminal when I needed to buy more volume.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 28:46

Um, so I did that, uh, worked with the different uh wholesale suppliers, and I also um bought stuff from the food terminal, and then um so throughout excuse me, throughout the um early stages, that was that was what I did. But part of my plan when I started this business was I I didn't think as I was building this thing out and was looking for opportunities, whatever. I I I also had in the back of my mind how can I create something that could potentially send some money back to Jamaica?

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_04 29:23

So um in 2018, I was I had the opportunity to I got approached by Farm Boy, okay, and then um so I got in with them. Um but it was only a couple of stores. They only had a couple of stores here in the GTA at that point, like three locations, so that wasn't too bad. I already had a portfolio at this point now um of about you know 50 odd stores carrying the product. And then Metro came around in 2019, and I know and Metro is a much bigger deal.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Much bigger.

SPEAKER_04 29:57

So um I needed to source more peppers. Yes, that's the core that's the core ingredient to my product lab.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 30:03

Peppers only grow here in Ontario uh seasonally. So I um at this point I was working with a contract packager. Um they put me in contact with a supplier out of the US that had like a crushed or pepper mash, as we call it, in the industry or a puree. So I bought uh shipment from them, and as when I got when so when this deal with Metro came around, I needed to like move to scale like really quickly. Really fast. So, anyway, so I bought um like I think a hundred gallons worth of pepper mash from these guys, brought it up, had it trucked up here, and then so that helped me like scale that operation. But um, the challenge was it wasn't what I liked, yeah. So uh the year that in 2018 also I had a a friend of mine who worked uh it's a spoke about my network in Jamaica. He worked with the um the Jamaica Gleaner, which is a national newspaper in in uh in Jamaica, and he came up and we went out for dinner. And uh he's like, So are you, you know, what is business? How's it going? And you know, are you getting peppers out of Jamaica? I said, No, ironically, I'm not. He's like, But I thought your whole thing is Scotch Bottom Pebbles. I'm like, yes, the problem is I can only get those at a certain time of the year here after the farmer's uh harvest, and I haven't found a supplier that can get me product out of Jamaica directly, although I'd love to have that happen.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Right.

SPEAKER_04 31:28

So, anyways, he's like, Wow, this is that's like like shocking. And I said, Yeah, it's I said a lot of times I have people that have approached me, but no one actually has been able to deliver.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 31:39

So, anyways, um, he's like, This is crazy. I gotta have one of my writers reach out to him. I gotta write a story about this because this is like a story that needs to be told.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 31:50

Gleaner, the the writer calls me, and then you know, next thing you know, like the the article is published, and I have everybody and their son calling me out of out of Jamaica.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

All of Jamaica got your phone number now. Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:02

So a lot of farmers reached out to me, but um uh and it was great because I in my mind I wanted to be able to have that happen, have a ability that now that I've started this company, how do I send some money back home to Jamaica, right? So for sure, this was the opportunity to do that. Um, the same um my aunt who I was um working for at the time where we did this wholesale frozen food business runs uh one the second largest poultry production company in Jamaica. And at the hen houses, basically she's sitting on you know a few acres worth of land where these where the hen houses were or at. So she said to me, you know, I didn't realize you were struggling with that inventory challenge of peppers. Why don't we grow for you here? And I'm like, absolutely. She goes, You just have to tell me what to do because I we have never grown peppers before. Right. So um that started this project, which was for her to grow peppers there on that um on you know, some some of the some of that land there. And um the challenge that they had initially was that portion of land that it had allocated was too the soil was too clear-like, so it wasn't ideal for growing.

SPEAKER_03 33:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 33:18

But the good thing was what we had started there with the seedlings, um, we were able to sell those seedlings to some other farmers who were on some other uh more fertile um soil, and then we would buy the inventory back from them.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

So good.

SPEAKER_04 33:35

So now we had about if memory serves me correctly, maybe about two dozen farmers that we had um been in contact with about growing, and then we you know started buying. So we started this project 2018. Um by 2020, we got it off the ground, and I went back to Jamaica in 2020, signed off on this project. We now had someone else that was so we were growing the peppers, bringing them in, sorting them at our at the facility there, and then we sent them out to uh third party to crush them and turn convert them to a mash.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 34:10

So I developed this recipe for a uh pepper mash. Okay, gave it to my aunt, she gave it to the these guys, and then I went and met with them and then the the processor to crush them, uh crush the peppers for us, and same thing, um, clean um deck, so no artificial preservatives. Yes, um, basically just salt and vinegar and the peppers.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

So good.

SPEAKER_04 34:29

And so in 2020, we started um exporting that pepper mash product out of Jamaica to me, and that's been the lifeblood uh of my business now since um and being able to access like the the true authenticity of what's was the start of my vision and that product line with the Scotch bonnet pepper coming directly out of Jamaica. Yes, and now being able to um you know to send some money back home.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Yes, exactly, which is amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Give back to your roots, which I love.

SPEAKER_04 35:06

Yeah, and so um now we have um so we we did that project with these farmers for a few years and then um eventually found um uh some better uh uh area on uh property um where the hen houses are to grow pepper. So now we actually have our own farm in-house uh four acres um that we grow scotch bonnet pepper exclusively there.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Amazing.

SPEAKER_04 35:33

Yeah. And that project has also developed um into the ability for my aunt to sell that pro sell peppers domestically in Jamaica. Um and I also brought in at the time I had one of my uncles there is an agronomist and has been uh a consultant uh for a lot of the different agricultural boards in Jamaica. And so I I suggested that he um I said to my aunt that she contact him so that um he can consult with them on in terms of like um disease uh mitigation processes, uh pest mitigation processes, uh, and and what things that you know to use to to um to address those concerns. Um so brought sort of two elements of the family together in this business, which has been fantastic. And then um now we also have so we can sell um fresh pepper on a local market. Um I have the crush um pepper mash that is sold to me here, but it's also sold in the domestic market in Jamaica as well now, too.

SPEAKER_03 36:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 36:41

I also advised uh or recomm suggested that we look at moving to dehydrating the Scotch bonnet pepper to create a powder or a flake.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 36:52

What that does is eliminates a waste issue. Um, like with any agricultural product, you have a short shelf life for until the product itself starts to spoil. So by dehydrating the pepper, um now you convert it uh to a completely dehydrated or dried product that there's no waste.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:13

So that's brilliant. Yeah, so um, yeah, so we have a huge industrial dehydrator there on our facility as well now, too, that we can dehydrate Scotch bonnet pepper, convert it to a powder, which I also bring in as well, too. And that is going to spin off a whole nother set of lines for me as well, in terms of some of the other projects that I have for the future planned.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

So you really are fully like vertically integrated in that way, right? That a lot of what's in your product is uh from your own business, family run supporting back in Jamaica, which is tremendous, right?

SPEAKER_04 37:51

Complete from like farm to table.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, before it was cool, right? So now the business has been up and running for 17 years. 17 years.

SPEAKER_04 38:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

So the original recipe that you had, you then added a couple. So how many, like how big is the product offering now? And is it it's just hot sauce or you've added seasonings and everything else?

SPEAKER_04 38:19

What is 17 years, 17 plus products?

SPEAKER_01 38:22

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 38:23

Yeah. So um I started with just the the original uh um hot sauce.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

And is it called the original?

SPEAKER_04 38:30

No. Okay, it's just it's called Nurpe's Gold. So it's my the gold. The gold. It's I love it. When you think about gold, right? Like award-winning, gold medal, like all that.

SPEAKER_03 38:40

So that's for the best.

SPEAKER_04 38:41

Um, yeah, uh, you know, as we say in Jamaica, top a top. Uh um, so the um, yeah, so now I so I have a gold, I have a red. Um I wanted to do a green one, which I didn't make one at one point. So I wanted to do like a red, gold, and green, which is you know, like uh Rafa Colas and all that red. But so I made a green one, but it was I made it as like a a mild hot sauce, but to me that was a bit of a conundrum. So I kind of didn't, even though I developed the recipe for it, I didn't really put it out there because it to me didn't I couldn't wrap my head around it like a mild hot sauce to me, it just doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_05 39:17

Wait a minute.

SPEAKER_04 39:18

Um, so anyways, I um so but I I I have a pickled veg. Uh that was my third product, um, kind of like a uh ceviche or like uh a jardinera um um in Jamaica we call it Escović. Um so I made that, and then I have uh I did uh an all-purpose seasoning, which is my mildest. I did a barbecue sauce. Okay. I have a jerk seasoning, which is now my top seller.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

Okay, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 39:44

You know, everybody loves jerk. Um and then I now have, as I mentioned, with the dehydrated um processing now that we have, I have dehydrated scotch bond and pepper powder and scotch bond and pepper flakes. Um I also have a um and then sorry, so so there's three seasonings. Um there's my two hot sauces, which were the original, there's a pickled veg. Um and then the three seasonings have spun off uh additional skews on the bulk side. So we I have uh jerk, curry, and a green seasoning that we do in a bulk format that we sell into restaurants, so on the food service side now as well. Um and then um in 2020, when I went back to Jamaica, I also started looking into coffee. Uh Jamaica Blue Mountain Coffee is very, very rare. Uh ultra gourmet coffee, um, second most expensive coffee in the world, one of the rarest coffees and one of the smoothest coffees you will ever drink. Um, very, very highly regarded, but it's very, very rare because the Japanese uh buy over 80% of that coffee. So only 20% of that coffee is actually left for the rest of the world. Okay. And we are one of uh only a handful of people in Canada that distribute that coffee.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Oh, very nice.

SPEAKER_04 41:07

Yeah. So I went to Jamaica there, spoke with uh a friend in the business, and we got that project off the ground at the end of 2020 as well. So we have two skews of coffee, a a dark, a medium to dark roast and a medium roast.

SPEAKER_05 41:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 41:19

Um, true purest will tell you that you only have good coffee as a medium roast. Yes. But I like a little bit more robust.

SPEAKER_05 41:26

So when I went to the roaster and I talked to him about doing uh dark roast, he's like sacrilege.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 41:33

But I said, don't burn the bean and we should be fine. So we did that, and now we have a dark roast, a medium to dark roast as well. And then um, some new projects that I have in the works. Um, we did a Scotch bonnet infused maple syrup this uh last year. Okay, so that's really, really nice. And then I have another like ridiculously crazy, I call it stupid hot hot sauce, which incorporates more than just a scotch bonnet pepper. This one now has six different peppers in it.

unknown 42:01

Ouch.

SPEAKER_04 42:02

Um, during COVID, we talk about pivots. During COVID, I started selling scotch bonnet pepper seeds.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 42:07

Uh over the years, you know, dealing with peppers. I I had a mass and collected seeds, so I started selling seeds. Um, and funny enough, through co throughout COVID, um, I sold a ton of seeds. I guess people wanted to plant. So good. And there was a lot of guys that were planting pepper, I guess, during that time. So I sold like thousands of seeds during COVID. I still have it, but I don't I don't sell as much of that. But that's also something that we do. Um, last year I got the license to import uh allspice, which is pimento. Yes. Um, so we bring in the pimento berries now as well, too. Go to Jamaica. And that actually comes from my other uncle's uh farms as well, too. So again, you know, this whole family business. Um I've you know, my grandfather was a farmer, and literally this this whole segue back to farming and agriculture, um, it's a family business.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

Yeah, absolutely it is. Yeah, yeah. And so you're I love the fact that you're integrated and that it's truly farms table, and that you are supporting family, you're supporting your community here. Yeah, you're supporting family and community in Jamaica. And it's uh uh gone from just off the side of your desk idea to now like a fully integrated going concern business, which is amazing. And you're in places all across Canada.

SPEAKER_04 43:38

Yeah, so we're in most of the major grocery retailers here, the um bigger banners like uh Metro, Farmboy, Sobeys. Um, I just got listed with uh Gordon Food Services this year. We just launched with them. We spoke actually with with uh GFS is the acronym for them. Uh spoke with them back in 2020, just before COVID hit. And they wanted to list um me with them as a supplier. And uh but obviously with COVID, I suggested that we put that on pause.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 44:09

And so um, because you know, we we didn't know what we were getting into at that point, and with then with all these restaurants and stuff that were closing or shutting down as a result, um, it only made sense to to you know uh press the brakes on that. Yes. Anyways, I we went back to them after things reopened and there was a little bit more sustainability with where the food service sector was.

SPEAKER_00 44:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 44:31

Um, so I uh reached out to my contact and I said, Hey man, I'm I'm still here, I'm still in the game, and we survived. And can we rock and roll? And he's like, Yeah, amazing, let's do it. Okay, yeah. So um, yeah, so we launched with them uh earlier this year, and then um Wells had a bunch of other independent grocers and independent uh stores that we worked with over the years, um, a lot of butcher shops. Um that became my niche too when I was sort of segueing into into the retail side of things. Um the the the the um um uh butcher shops became um a vertical that uh really helped me leverage and and move the business forward quite a bit, actually.

SPEAKER_02 45:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 45:18

Um and it also became a good area for me to to test some of the bulk food service items.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 45:24

Um, because then I could offer that to them where they could pre-marinate chicken or whatever in you know, behind counter. So you could go in and get pre-marinated jerk from herpes at a at a butcher shop. Um smart. Yeah, so that that was pretty cool. And then um last year I also got uh uh signed with Walmart.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 45:48

So we haven't rolled out with them yet, but that's coming. It's coming.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

Um is there a recipe book coming from you? Is that on your horizon? I mean, you're you're a creative, so there's probably 4,000 ideas in your head at this point, I'm gonna guess.

SPEAKER_04 46:07

So um what's coming uh is there's uh four or five, so there's there's gonna be a dry line that's gonna come out.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 46:18

So all of the sauces that I have now are pretty much in a wet format.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 46:23

I'm going to so having um I've always people used to come to me and ask me if I have a dry jerk. And uh I didn't want to make one without having scotch bonnet pepper in there.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 46:35

So until we were able to move to this dehydrated format, got it, and create um, you know, the powder to integrate into a dry rub. I didn't want to make the recipe.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

Oh, I got that. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 46:47

Now that I have that, I so and also during COVID, I developed those recipes.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 46:52

Yeah, you know, or I was in lockdown, so for sure. All kinds of time. So it also created what you asked about earlier. Um, so I have recipes for the dry products already all done, and eventually that I will bring them to market. Um, but at the same time, uh, or during that time, I wrote someone had mentioned to me about writing a blog.

SPEAKER_02 47:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 47:13

I didn't have time to do that previously. No. But when we were in lockdown, I did. Got time. So I wrote about 18 blogs.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

Ooh.

SPEAKER_04 47:23

Recipes. I worked with a uh friend of mine who's a chef. Um, and we put together some recipes. And so there's videos out on YouTube, there's recipes already already written that are in a blog post that may become a book of some point or something like that, or something. I mean, and plus there's other there's other things that I do on a creative side in the kitchen that I like that are in my head, um, that I haven't written down, but like I cook all the time. Yes, uh something that I enjoy doing.

SPEAKER_00 47:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 47:59

So a recipe I and this is how I'm able to create these recipes year after year after year, is that I'll have an idea, um, it the wheels start to spin. Yes, and then it's like this maple syrup thing. Like, yeah, super creative. Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

Well, what you've created is fantastic, so good. All right, my last question for you is what would be your words of wisdom? Looking at the journey that you've been on in your pivotal moments, what would be your words of wisdom for the audience?

SPEAKER_04 48:32

Um if you want to consider uh a journey into entrepreneurship, um uh man, there's so much. Um you've gotta be daring, um, you've gotta be fearless. Um but most importantly, you gotta be gotta be bigger. Um you've gotta have the perseverance. It's a tough go out there. Yeah, it's it's challenging. Um I make the joke with everybody, okay, everybody knows um Usain Bolt and you know these these uh hundred meter sprint stars, Shelly and Fraser Price. Yeah um but the journey within entrepreneurship is not a sprint, it's a Mofara race. You know what I mean? It's uh it's uh it's not Usain Bolt, right? Yes, yes, it's uh it's a 10,000 meter hurdle. Yeah. And um as you go through this journey through entrepreneurship, you're you're constantly going through like you're running a sepal chase.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:40

There's constant obstacles, but and you know, you jump over one hurdle, um, there's gonna be another one.

SPEAKER_00 49:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 49:48

Just know that there's gonna be another one. Um but you gotta have the uh the perseverance and the drive um to keep at it.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

Agreed. Well, you have done that and then some. I mean, you know, having selling car parts and all of these different things that you've done. I mean, you you are through and through an entrepreneur. And what you've created with NURPE's is amazing. And I wish you nothing but continued success. We're gonna keep watching from the sidelines as you bring up more and more recipes, expand your business. Um but I think what you're you're doing, unlike many other businesses, that you're being really deliberate about the product you're bringing out and and being highly uh deliberate also about the sourcing of where the product's coming from. And I I applaud you for that. So congratulations and thank you so much for sharing your story. And we'll be cheering super hard. Maybe not doing the super, super hot sauce. I will tell you. I'm a bit of a lightweight, but yeah, maybe the mild.

SPEAKER_04 51:01

I don't do it on a regular either. But thank you. It's you know, it's uh it's been a fun journey. It continues to be fun. Um, you know, and uh yeah, I'm still enjoying it. It's still uh there's still lots more to come.

SPEAKER_01 51:12

Perfect. We look forward to it. Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 51:15

Thank you. It's been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

Awesome, thank you. Thank you for joining me today. That was so much fun. From stocking grocery shelves to modifying race cars to corporate sales to building a Jamaican hot sauce empire. Michael is an unstoppable force. I love that his business supports communities in both Canada and Jamaica. Well, now I'm off to try some hot sauce. Although I'm going to avoid any that claims to have a powerful kick. Mild for me, please. If this story resonated with you, please share it with someone you care about and be sure to subscribe so you can continue to hear more pivotal stories involving one question, one turning point, one powerful story. I'll see you next week with another guest on the Leslie Hawkins podcast.