Catholic Perspective of Wellness Culture

In this episode, Carly and Raleigh break down the Catholic perspective of wellness culture. 

Carly shares her personal postpartum journey, touching on nutrition, exercise, yoga, and vegetarianism. Together, she and Raleigh examine how Catholics can approach wellness thoughtfully: discerning God’s will for the body, integrating healthy habits as spiritual practices, and staying aware of the cultural messages that shape our choices.

Main Question: What’s a Catholic to think about wellness culture? In what ways can fitness, nutrition, or homemaking become spiritual practices?

God’s Promises from 1 Thessalonians 5:23

“May the God of peace himself make you perfectly holy and may you entirely, spirit, soul, and body, be preserved blameless for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Carly’s postpartum journey

• Navigating nutrition and exercise through a Catholic lens 
• Questions around yoga, vegetarianism, and caring for the body
• Discerning God’s will in how we use our bodies
• Where wellness culture aligns with Catholic spirituality—and where it clashes

Reflection Question: Are there any dangers in following the classic sayings: “follow your heart” or “do what feels right”?

References: 
<>< https://www.jamesmatthewwilson.com/
<>< Catechism of the Catholic Church 364 The human body shares in the dignity of "the image of God": it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit...
<>< Catechism of the Catholic Church367 Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit: St. Paul for instance prays that God may sanctify his people "wholly", with "spirit and soul and body" kept sound and blameless at the Lord's coming.236 The Church teaches that this distinction does not introduce a duality into the soul.237 "Spirit" signifies that from creation man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Glory and the Grind, the podcast where we explore the beauties and the struggles of living out our Catholic faith.

SPEAKER_02 0:07

I'm your host, Carly Flynn, and I'm also here, Rolly Poche. We're just two friends finding grace and the grind of motherhood and ministry while cleaning spills, changing diapers, and trying not to lose our minds every time one of our children says 6-7. We take your questions from Life and the Grind and look for the glory woven into your story. So let's dive into some moments where holiness and hot messes meet. So we have covered that nobody likes icebreakers. However, Carly and I are glutton for punishment. So Carly, I have an icebreaker question for you. And I know that it is you shouldn't be because like this is probably something that you already have thought of. In our lives, like we both have had extended education beyond just a regular bachelor's degree. We love to learn. If you had unlimited time and funds, what is one course that you would love to take? What's like your dream class? One, only one. So, like if you want to study literature, it has to be like Shakespearean literature. Like it has to be like I did that already.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

All right, so I think what I would be the most excited to dive into would be a class all about Catholic poetics. And I have so many books of like the best Catholic poetry and the best, and that's wonderful. And reading the books is good. But anyone who's ever taken like a really good class with a really good professor, it's just different when you have someone who knows it and can just break it open for you. And that's what I would love. Like, take me through Dante, take me through Hopkins, take me through all the way up till like we're getting into the more recent people. Like, take me to Merton, take me to the 1960s, take me everywhere. Do you know these names?

SPEAKER_02 1:50

I know some of those names. Like, I'm sure our listeners are gonna enjoy like learning some new names. The only one I know is like Flannery O'Connor. That's like that's the one I'm most familiar with. She's wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Um, and we can have a whole conversation about her another time. But that would be, yeah, I would, I would just let it go on forever. And actually, I learned recently about an entire master's degree that is on like the Catholic theories of poetics, and it only became available a couple of years ago. But I got to meet the guy who runs the program. And his name is James Matthew Wilson. He's wonderful. So check it out, everybody. All right, so the next thing we definitely want to make sure to cover is what we're digging into today, which is all about wellness culture. We had a question from a listener that was all about what does it mean to be a Catholic to be confronted with wellness culture? And we want to always start with one of God's promises. What is the Lord telling us about wellness in scriptures? Today's promise is from First Thessalonians chapter 5, verse 23, where we hear, May the God of peace himself make you perfectly holy, and may you entirely, spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. What do you think about that, Raleigh?

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Amen. St. Paul's, well, I mean, you and I both have a special devotion to the letter to the Thessalonians this year, but I I think that this promise that Paul is sharing with those that are, you know, that he's addressing is that in this chapter specifically, he talks a lot about camaraderie and coming together. And he finishes it off with, and I pray that as you're building each other up, you're also remembering you yourself have to grow in your relationship. You have to grow closer to Christ because doing things for others is great, but you also have to check yourself, which I think is kind of hard to do in ministry, but it's very important. Sure. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

And we'll get some more into what this means for everybody in ministry moving forward.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

But why don't you I've got open up to the little uh I got a specific of what this question is. So we have questions, and if you ever do have a question about Catholicism, motherhood, you know, anything that's part of our topics, feel free to message us and we can discuss it on a future video. But today's episode is all about wellness culture. So the main question that we're digging into is what is a Catholic perspective about wellness culture and what ways can fitness and nutrition become spiritual practices? Those are kind of the two main aspects of wellness culture as we experience it as moms in their early 30s. But quick disclaimer, y'all. We encourage you to take our words and hold them against the teachings of the church, sacred tradition, sacred scripture, especially if something doesn't sit well with you. It could be the Holy Spirit prompting you to dig deeper on a certain topic, or it could just be human error on our part. I know that I sometimes speak quicker than my brain thinks. So there are some times where I'll just say something that is completely wrong, or I'll fumble on my words. So I pray you give us a little grace, but also take what we say as a message from a friend, a message from someone who cares, but also as a human. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Um, and just to jump off of that, I do have my own story associated with figuring out what does being a Catholic woman, figuring out wellness culture, figuring out the role of fitness and wellness and nutrition in her life. And I imagine a lot of women our age Raleigh have this type of story. So I'll dive into it a little bit. But as you can probably guess, the biggest moment in my life where I had to figure out what nutrition and wellness and fitness look like for me was after I had my first child. Going through pregnancy, going through birth, going through postpartum, trying to figure out what that was gonna look like. And we've had this conversation before, Raleigh, where you and I had our own like moments of mommyhood and adjusting to that. But just for the listeners to know, whenever I had my first child, I was very young. I was 25 when I got pregnant. And by that point in my life, I did not think about my fitness and my wellness with any real diligence. I was not one of these women who like ran three miles every morning before she went to work. I was living on cheese fries. That was my happy place. I definitely loved junk food, but I cared. You know, I tried to look at my calorie intake and I tried to do some exercise here and there. I made it to the gym every now and then. I I cared. I wanted to be healthy, but I was not by any means running all of the things. But whenever I became pregnant, I also became very sick. So thinking about my nutrition became a whole new thing for me. And for the first time, I was really, I was really bombarded with what is right and what is good and what is going to serve not just my body, but the body that's growing inside of me. What am I gonna keep down? That was the other question. And then throughout my pregnancy, that stayed on my mind. I became very cognizant of what I was putting into my body and thinking about, you know, what are additives or what are the potential side effects of things and like what are people allergic to? I don't have an allergy. Are these now things I'm gonna have to think about now that I have a baby? And it all was swirling through my head. And then so we finally welcomed our little boy into the world and it was a great moment, and we were all very happy. And then I remember my husband and I having a really real conversation while I was postpartum, while I'm at home. I had gone through nine months of being sick and thinking about everything that I ate. And my instinct was to eat all of the things that I couldn't eat while I was pregnant, and I just wanted to go crazy and just say, like, I'm finally gonna have all these things and I'm gonna totally dive into that. And my husband reminded me, you said so many times while you were pregnant, how much you thought about food and how much you thought about what are you feeding your baby and what's gonna help your body to perform well during this time. That doesn't end just because you've had the baby. Like your body is still important moving forward. You have to have that mindset shift. And it was a tricky teeter-totter of yes, I want to do what is going to be good for me and help my body to perform well versus this idea of I want my body to look good and I want my body to return to, you know, pre-pregnancy shape and all of that, and trying to figure that out, trying to find that balance. And that's a very unique conversation we might have to say for a postpartum episode. But that mindset has shifted into the deeper conversation that I think is true for anyone listening to this: that your body is a gift from God that is meant to be used in service of your mission while you are here on earth. Your body will be eternal, your body will be given back to you, you know, at the um second coming and when we're all joined together, body and spirit, as God intended us to be at all times in eternity, body and soul. However, in the current state of things, until that second coming, our body will die. So the purpose of our body today is that it should be in service of our mission. So whether you're maybe like I was in a postpartum state or in a pregnancy state, or maybe your body doesn't have all of the sort of markers of wellness that you see in wellness culture, whether it's how a body looks or a particular weight or a particular, you know, fat percentage, body fat percentage. The point of it is really to consider is your body in service to your mission? Are you taking care of the body that you will have returned to you at some point? And how can you make choices each day that allows your body to be in service of that mission? Because it's a tool, but it's also a gift from God and you want to treat it like it is. So where do you where do you go with that, Raleigh? What what hits home to you there?

SPEAKER_02 10:12

A lot of things, just as someone who has walked with you through, you know, I'd say two and a half pregnancies, because when you were pregnant with Clark, I don't think I knew you as well. But I remember we were working a retreat and it was like an all-night overnight retreat, and you woke up super early in the morning, we passed each other in the hallway, and you were leaving the bathroom, like, you ready to have a good day? She's like, Yep, just threw up, ready to go. I'm like, dang, she gets so sick when she's pregnant, and like that stinks. But here she is, just bouncing back and like making it happen. But I think that for moms, and I can relate to that, that our care for ourselves are like really focusing on our care. For a lot of us, it doesn't come until we're carrying another human. And like, yeah, there was like aesthetics, like when I was in college um and working out or or going for one or just being active, it was to consistently, you know, be able to stay in my clothes and and fit in them and look good and you know, be able to find a husband, and that worked, but just just to look good, and that's that's all health was kind of about. And then as I got a little bit older, um, especially after becoming a mom, because you go through all of these different hormone changes and your body is just different. I had gestational diabetes with every single one of my three pregnancies. Every single one. And like the first one, I was just heartbroken about it. And then it was fine, it was great. I had to go on a meal plan and be very specific at what times I eat, and that was all good and you know, fine. And the second one, I was like, okay, well, I'm prepared for this now. I know how to handle it. But I truly like whenever I would want to do something that would benefit me or give into my desires, like I really just want a bowl of cereal. I just want a bowl of lucky charms.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

But like, that was the best thing when I was pregnant.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

I just wanted cereal. Cereal, I know, but it's so high in carbs and sugars into it. As a diabetic mom. So I couldn't. And like at the time, yeah, sacrificing for my child was fulfilling, but now that I'm no longer carrying a child, I'm no longer breastfeeding, I'm just, you know, taking care of my own body. That sacrifice doesn't feel, I don't know if it sounds weird. It doesn't feel as like the gravity is not there. Like I denied myself a sweet treat for the kingdom.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Like it doesn't feel, it doesn't feel like a big flag.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Like I can just picture like this. I always say I picture heaven at this like corporate office, and like Mary and Jesus and Saint Peter are sitting at like this conference table, and every now and then they like look down at heaven and like just goof off about the stuff that we think we're doing. That's just awesome.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

And yeah, they're like cheering us on, but also like Jesus is like, Peter, come here, come look at this. She thinks lucky charms matter. Look at it. There's people climbing mountains barefoot, but she said no to lucky charms, you know.

SPEAKER_02 13:03

Blessed is she, and like God sees it all, you know, and I'm not trying to lessen our sacrifices, but for to get back on point, I did not take health seriously. I think when we think about health and wellness, they're a little different because health obviously is what you put into your body and how you treat your body. And wellness, I think, speaks more to the mind and the spirit, but it has to be both. It can't be one or the other because we are a body and a soul. And you said something, the body will be eternal. And I think a lot of people may have heard that and like had the hairs on their heads like stand up, like, wait, we're just talking about bodies. I don't want this one. I'm a lot. I mean, I can't exchange, but like our bodies, it says in scripture, and we believe sacred tradition teaches us that we will be reunited with our bodies at the second coming, like when Jesus, you know, just as Jesus was reunited with his body, we will have that reconnection with our body. That's why the church has, you know, specific teachings about things like cremation, right? Like that's a topic with my my students. We talk about burial and cremation and the importance of keeping your body in one space, right? For you know, burial, but like also resurrection purposes. So we treat the body a certain way during death. We should also treat it a certain way during life. And I think that a lot of times we can see a certain amount of vanity when it comes with people who pay special attention to their health and wellness. We also can kind of see it as like a luxury. Like, I don't have the luxury of meal planning and meal prepping. I can see the people who are able to do that and get really like, you know, frustrated in myself, but like, oh, they're so amazing. They've got this, you know, meal prep recipe down and they can go to the gym every morning and they can do all these things, and we can kind of look at that like as a luxury and not as something attainable. But like that's what's their calling. Like you talked about serving your purpose. My purpose, I'm a mom of three kids and they keep me very busy. And I know I serve them better if I take care of myself. Like if I have a good day where I'm active and don't lay on the couch or don't eat junk food, I don't feel sick at the end of the day, I'm able to care for my family. But I think also we focus so much on the body when it comes to health and wellness, we forget about the soul. Right. And it's not a both. I mean, it's not an and or, it's a both.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Absolutely. And that is part of the Catholic Church's official teachings that when it comes to um scripture and we're looking at like what does the Lord teach us about our body, and what does the Lord teach us about disease or nutrition or like any of these pieces that come into the wellness category, the overarching message is that holistic care, and I don't mean, you know, holistic maybe in the way that Instagram means it, but holistic care where you care for your entire wellness, your mental, your emotional, your spiritual, your physical wellness, that has to be the priority of a Christian because we believe that all parts of the self are connected. So if you overprioritize one over the other, the other one will not like the balance is necessary. If you ignore your mental health in favor of your physical health, then your physical health will not reach its potential because it needs all of it. The entire self needs to be considered as one, even if you sometimes have to prioritize here and there as needed in order to keep everything working well. But that's gonna contribute not just to your, you know, physical wellness, how you feel about yourself, it's gonna contribute to all parts of your life. So your interior life will improve when your exterior life absolutely have to go together.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Yeah. And something I really like that Father Mike Schmitz talks a lot about is treating our life with Christ as we treat, you know, training in the gym. Like if you are working out in your quote unquote spiritual life, how are you doing that? Are you are you kind of just going through the motions or are you taking seriously the sacraments, right? And like we said, it's it's a balance. We have to participate in all things that the church has given us. It's important to go to mass and receive the Eucharist. It's important to also go to reconciliation and receive forgiveness. It's important to share in the sacramental life of the church because if we're only just doing one thing over and over and over again, like if I do push-ups every single day, I'm going to be shredded, but I will not. Your arms will be. Yeah, just my arms will be so strong and my chest and like certain areas of my back, but like I will walk around like a toothpick because when will I have ever done anything for my legs? I walk around like a toothpick now, but that has nothing to do with whether or not I do push-ups. But I want to point out two things from the catechism. Catechism of the Catholic Church. This is number 364. It says the human body shares in the dignity of the image of God. It is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become in the body of Christ a temple of the spirit. And it goes on again in Catechism 367. Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit. Saint Paul, for instance, prays that God may sanctify his people wholly with spirit and soul and body kept sound and blameless for the Lord's coming. If we try to think of ourselves as a body with a soul or a soul featuring a body, like you have like on an artist track, we're we're losing the concept of what it means to be made in the image of God. It's not, it's not two separate beings coming together. It's not peanut butter and jelly. It is our whole entirety created in the image and likeness of God. And when we are focusing on, you know, we can see like influencers in the health and wellness culture, and they talk a lot about like we you talked about like additives and things like that in our food. And I think we can get very, very caught up in focusing on niche things that we kind of just lose the overall focus. I think the idea of looking at ingredients and food has become so much more, people are so much more aware of it now, which is great. You should know what you're eating. But I think that with anything, things can become an obsession. Yes. And that is what rules your life. And if that is what's ruling your life, then you're setting your focus all on one part of your health, which is a very important part. Don't get me wrong, nutrition, like what you feed your body, that is where your body gets energy. That is very important. But you also have to let that not be your all-in-all when it comes to taking care of your body.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

And it's the same point that you made before about like when you had gestational diabetes, sugar was your enemy, right? So, like you need to know how much sugar is in something. And that might be true for other things too. Like when we talk about there's this cleanliness, clean wellness, clean nutrition culture that's all over Instagram, especially over Christian Instagram. I feel like where people are very much on this rampage of like you have to, you know, use different cleaning products and use different brands that you buy at the store, start making your own things and all of that. And that's not wrong, right? We can't be mad at our brothers and sisters who are trying to do right by their bodies and by their families. But to allow that to become an idol, that your cleanliness or your wellness or your, you know, all of that is distracting you from the other parts of yourself that needs cleanliness, you know, the other parts of yourself that needs to be purified or brought to the Lord or whatever that looks like. You know, do that if that's what you feel like you and your family need. But also don't let that become the only thing that makes you righteous is the fact that you eat clean and have clean products, right? It has to be a whole picture and like just to have that self-reflection and that self-awareness. Um, the other thing that's true here, in partnership with being a temple of the Holy Spirit, is that we often have to consider when it comes to the wellness piece, that this is an opportunity to practice the virtue of temperance. And that's what we're really circling around here: this idea of balance, this idea of whatever you've got going on that is the thing that you think is going to answer your wellness, whether it's a medicine or a vitamin or an exercise regimen or the new nutrition meal plan, whatever that is, remembering, like you just said about the push ups, that we have to practice that temperance in all things, whether that's our fitness and just finding where that fits in and not allowing it to become the Idol, not allowing it to become the greatest thing. That's where I see wellness culture start to fail. Is that they become, you know, so many of the influencers, and maybe that's how they're making their living. So that's how they have to make their life look. Sure. But so much of what they focus on has to do with how they look, how they feel, what supplement they're using, whatever that looks like. And there's no peace to the rest of it, right? Of like how is this contributing to the whole? And that's where temperance comes in to say you have to have the balance and the self-control and the moderation that allows room, like we said in the previous episode, on balance for all the other important pieces of your life to make sense in the limited time that you have in a day. Yes, and it also you know, and and for some people, the vegetarianism might be the answer or the no or the no sugar diet or whatever that looks like. You've got to figure out what your body's needs are. I can't tell you how many times I've heard about the carnivore diet or the keto diet or whatever that looks like. Like if that works for your body to meet the needs that allows you to feel healthy and serve your mission, do that and don't necessarily become an evangelist for that. Become an evangelist for the Lord. And if your body needs that thing, and if you notice somebody else's body that could use that and you and you're just talking about it, that's one thing. We just don't want to pretend that your diet or your wellness routine is the answer. That is not the healer, that is not the divine physician. Only one person is that.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

I think that's the thesis of our episode today. Wow, Carly, I want to ask you: are there any dangers in following those classic sayings that we've heard since we were children? You know, follow your heart or just do what feels right. What are what are some dangers that you can potentially see in that, especially for people who are following, you know, trying to be well-rounded, body and soul? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Well, if we're thinking particularly about wellness culture, if you just kind of do what feels right, like I said in my story, it felt right to eat a ton of sushi and um twizzlers. Okay, that's what felt right to me at that moment in my life. Was that gonna make very good um nutrition for my body? Absolutely not. Was that gonna help me feel good and wake up and do things with my child? Not that sushi is the worst thing in the world, but the amount that I wanted to eat was gonna induce a coma, okay? Right. In moderation, in moderation, things like that. But we also hear the follow your heart thing. Your heart is so fickle.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

Your heart is dumb.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Your heart is dumb. Your heart desires the approval of other people. Your heart desires um a love of self that you cannot create. Your heart wants for so many things because your heart is a wounded little bird. And the Lord can satisfy the desires of your heart, but you like getting a new gym membership ain't gonna do it. Or like you deciding that you're gonna go vegetarian for a year ain't gonna do it. You have to first align your heart to ask your heart to be like the Lord's, and when you do that, you will realize hey, my body needs to serve the poor, my body needs to um, you know, admonish the sinner, my body needs to do so many things besides burpees. And look, I'm not hating on burpees. No, I am. I hate burpees so much, they're the worst. But besides that, we have to be realistic. Like, yes, working out and eating right and all of that is important. And for some people, it is actually gonna make the difference between them being able to serve the poor and serve their fellow man and be alive tomorrow. So, yes, we need to do those things, but to pretend that any of this other stuff is going to answer the truest needs of our hearts, that's just not true.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

That is not true, it's not fulfilling. And I think when we talk about following your heart, I'm not talking about, and I don't believe Carly is either. We're not talking about like I love my children. I'm not talking about that being fickle and dumb. I'm talking about like our emotions. Like I can be really frustrated and angry because I am hungry and I am tired. And if I take a nap and have a little sweet treat, I'm a lot nicer. Now, if I followed what felt good in my heart, you know, in those moments, your emotions should not be what makes your decisions, right? There's some times in my life that I can think back that like I 100% made the right choice, looking back in retrospect, but it felt like the wrong choice at the time because of how I was feeling. And I think if we are constantly following how we're our emotions and letting that dictate our lives, we're gonna constantly, constantly find new reasons to fall back into the arms of Christ because we're going to need his intercession, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Because that's the disposition of your heart. When you're making a decision based on prudence and wisdom and the guidance of the church and the guidance of people that you trust, it might not feel right at the time because your heart has not aligned with wisdom and prudence. You know, that your heart is fickle and small and weak and wounded and wants something else, but that's not gonna lead. Sometimes the wrong choice is what leads us away from actually getting what our heart needs. It doesn't feel good to eat a spinach salad. It's like it's not like exciting, right? But it also doesn't feel good to like wake up one time for you to take that morning walk before you've got to do all the rest of the things. But you know you're gonna feel bad in two months when you haven't done that and your back hurts, and you know, all the things that go along with just being a person who takes care of themselves. So yeah, there's definitely some pitfalls to that. And again, that's true in all parts of your life, not just in your wellness journey. So we hope you enjoyed today's episode and pray that the spirit has guided your reflection. In the next episode, we're diving into different movements within the church.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

I don't know, like stand up, sit down, kneel, stand, kneel, hold hands, wait. No, don't hold hands, kneel again. And sit.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

We don't ever get to sit down at my church. We're up and down the whole time. Well, that's because we have kids. It's true. No, I don't even know what that was. We're going to talk about traditional, charismatic, modern-day worship practices, all of the nitty gritty that the internet loves to tell us we have to choose a side about. So we're gonna talk about that.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Yes, yes. Okay, that I'm more familiar with. Sounds good. So we'll see you all next episode. Through the grind and grace, we're praying for you. Please pray for us too. See you later.

unknown 28:56

Peace.