Raising Daughters Part 2!

Part 2 is here! We’re continuing the conversation on raising daughters in today’s world—touching on everything from building confidence and resilience to navigating dating and the ups and downs of girls sports. It’s honest, heartfelt, and full of real-life moments that remind us we’re all figuring it out together.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Hi Heather. Hi Dana, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Okay. Very good. I feel better now that Easter is over. I got through my first Easter hosting. Oh yeah. I'm sure it was fabulous. But how did it go?

SPEAKER_02 0:19

It went really good. I always throw a good party. Thank you. I'm sure that was a great spread. Yeah. It's kind of fun because you have young nieces and nephews still. So we got into the like Easter marshmallows of it all. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

I always have little themed candies and stuff. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

Yeah. And non-traditional food? Traditional food? A mix? What was like, just give us a few highlights from the menu. Uh ham, no ham. No ham.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

The burning question is ham or no ham. I take that back. There was ham. Did somebody come with ham?

SPEAKER_00 0:47

I asked my Zio and my Zia to do uh appetizers and they always come through. And um my zealie, one of the things he brought had there was ham. All right. Yeah, nod to the ham. So there was ham in the apps, but um ham was there in spirit. No, we did a few different kinds of pasta. Yeah, Italian mostly. It was yeah, pretty much Italian.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Breaded chicken, emogue sauce, that kind of stuff. Sounds amazing. Yeah. I'm still getting away with not hosting Easter and showing up places with dishes. Right. I love it. Did you make your pies? Uh no, no pies. I did do desserts, but uh I don't know what I don't remember what I did. This Easter dessert. Yeah. I think Thanksgiving Easter.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Okay, wait, I know that we're we have a totally different uh topic today, but this is actually making me um think Did you grow up because I know that you obviously I know you're Italian, um but did you guys ever eat pizza rustica pizza rustica? Yeah or pizza gain as some people call it. Okay, us either. And I wonder if now my mom's Sicilian, my dad's from northern Italy. So it would have been more my dad's side, but like we never ate it, and I saw it all over TikTok. Oh, like specifically for Easter? Yes. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

But it sounds delicious, whatever it is. It looks really good. Anything with pizza on the front? Yeah. It sounds like a winner. A lot of meats and cheeses. Oh, all right. No. But we said last time when we were talking about raising daughters, that we felt like there was definitely more we could cover, and we barely scratched the surface of that. So we're back for a part two today of raising daughters. Yes. And I kind of realized we kind of take for granted that a lot of people might know who we are or what's going on, but we should at least start with my daughters are 11 and 13 almost. We're within a few months of 11 and 13. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

And your daughter is Ava's 17.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

So we are in the thick of like the And it is so helpful to always have people that are a little ahead of you or a lot ahead, a lot ahead of you, where you're saying, like, ooh, we're in this phase. Yes, give me some tips. Because I remember being a new mom with like a baby, you're always like, people are telling you so many things, right? Like, oh, just do this or hold the baby for the naps, like all this advice. Then I feel like as your kids get older, that kind of goes away, and you're like, Help, help.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Well, it goes away, or then you have like unwanted opinions, like, sure, you're gonna let her wear that, and it's like so depending on who's giving you the advice, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:15

Which is one of the things we'll talk about right off the top, it's a different world than it was when we were children when our parents were children. So uh it's always good to talk about it with somebody, and whatever, like whether they're giving you advice about themselves or their own kids, that's really good to talk about. Yeah, for sure. So, one of the first things we covered this a little bit last time, but we were just talking about how different of a world it is that we're raising our daughters in. And we kind of focused in on a lot of like the social media stuff is so different. One of the things that I read this week that actually sparked this in my brain was what else is wildly different is is do you feel like your world or the world is just more like child-centered than it was when we were growing up? Meaning when you have children, your household kind of runs around the children as opposed to like adult-centered, where it was like go out and play all day long. I'll see you at dinner, and like I'm not here for your entertainment, I'm not here for like a crazy schedule or something. I feel like that's a little bit different than the way that I grew up.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

It is, but I I'm actually interested to hear your answer to this, what you do personally. I feel like I kind of know, but like I do think that the world is different in that way, but we got some incredible advice when we were pregnant with Ava, or when I was pregnant with Ava. Um, and they just really I hate when men say we're expecting.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

I know because I know they are expecting a baby, but I feel like it's not that much of a shared load. No.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

So just and you know Ryan, he would never be the guy that would say that.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

I feel like it's very common.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Men say it, but every time they do, I'm like, Yeah, no, when I was pregnant with you, um, we got some incredible advice exactly about that. Okay, our really good friends sat us down and said, You are bringing this baby into your world, and your world should not shift to the point where you don't even recognize yourself, your marriage anymore, like or you're not doing any of the same activities you used to love or do. They said if you guys like going out to dinner, which we do, and they did, I mean, who doesn't, but they did too. They said, Your kids will be good at a restaurant, don't not bring them because, like, no, you bring them and you teach them this. It's a priority.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

You have to learn how to be in the setting because I want to be in this setting like that.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

So I do feel like we carried that through. And while of course there's gonna be times that your life centers around your kid when they're in sports, or there's gonna be things like that.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Yeah, like your schedule is just uh very much driven by activities and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

But we kept that really like in the forefront of our mind in raising the kids, and I felt like we had like a pretty good mix, but I I do sometimes feel like an alien because I feel like around me it does feel like everything is centered around like I was never I would never skip out on anything because a kid needed it was their nap time or anything, and absolutely zero judgment.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

Right, in that area, whatever works for your family and whatever makes you the least crazy.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

You have to survive, right? But just a little example of where sometimes I would feel like um almost like, oh, am I doing it wrong? Because I felt like, no, you'll just be tired later when I want to be at the party.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Like so I you'll fall asleep on somebody's couch or something because we're gonna still go out and spend time with our friends, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

So, but I I do it is a different world.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

It is, yeah. I see that too. I do think we're in the thick of where their schedules are very busy, so that feels like it dictates a lot of our life, and we are constantly having to reassess like what are our priorities? We should remind our children what our priorities are, and but like to your point, we were also very much like uh we're not gonna stop doing things. One time we were at a friend's house for dinner, and my kids were a little bigger, but like toddlers, not babies, and they were passed out on the floor all watching cartoons together, but like at one in the morning, and I said to my husband, like, is this like child abuse now? We have to put these kids to bed, right? But like it wasn't, they were fine, right? Wasn't like we were waking them up the next morning for school, it was like a a weekend, they were fine, but I don't know. I feel like uh there's definitely we we see a lot of trends about like people who grew up in uh maybe our generation or even farther back for sure. Like the adults were very much like, no, this is what happens in our home, this is what doesn't happen in our home. We don't have time for that, we don't have money for that. Like, and I do feel like there's a whole different focus of like yeah, making your kid happy, giving them all the opportunities, and certainly there's like a line to walk there where maybe too much, not too much, you know, you find your what what works for your family somewhere in the middle. Yeah, I mean, we yeah, we just grew up very differently, I think, than I don't know what we're doing with our kids and stuff. And sometimes I am going like, okay, but did I get pushed into this? Did I consciously choose this? So it's good to just keep reassessing, I think, with your spouse or whoever. Yeah, how that's going. Because it could definitely you can see how like your life could be completely on hold, or I won't want to say on hold, because I I feel like a lot of parents say this is my life. I love this. Exactly. I am everywhere with my kids, I do love it. That's great. Yeah, as long as everybody's happy and you're not feeling like resentful, or is this even what we think is the most important thing? As long as that's all on check, I think you do whatever works for you.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

I think that's the most important thing, and kind of what they were saying, like they weren't telling me, like, no, you must. They were saying, like, you're bringing them into your world. If what you want to do is, you know, A, B, and C, then you do A, B, and C. So, hey, if you want to, you know, work around the nap or or whatever, that's beautiful. Yeah, and you do that, but like you said, as long as you're on the same page with your you know spouse and you guys agree on how this should go, then by all means, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

It doesn't have to look the same from your house to my house or whatever. One of the other things that was actually making me chuckle is the difference from the way we grew up in like maybe having a lot of freedom. I don't know, maybe you didn't because your particular like parents, if they were more concerned or less concerned, but you would kind of just like have the freedom to like go play around the neighborhood or even no, never no. I couldn't even speak for a lot of millennials because I know from reading like social media, sometimes you would just leave your house for hours on end, no cell phone to check in. Mother-in-law just said that the same thing the other day. I'm saying, so I know that my parents weren't like negligent. I know it's for sure a trend that is because of the world we live in, and you are hyper aware of everything that could be going wrong, or whatever, all the people that you don't want your kids around. I feel like we had so much more freedom to just like be gone for long periods of time. And I feel like with daughters, that's even harder than with boys. And I had a big brother, which I feel like helped a lot because he was always like checking on to make sure he knew where I was. But okay, so tell me that was not different for you.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Dude, I couldn't go anywhere. We had do you remember you remember Bushemis? They still have Boucemies, yeah. So uh for people who aren't local to us, there's it's like a little Italian market, but a party store. It's a bodega, if you will.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

I was gonna say, people call that different things, so party store, convenience store.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Yeah, but they had great slices of pizza, and it was all it was on the corner of like where we lived, there were major like subdivisions, North Branch Valley, Rivergate, like really big at the time, and we would, you know, we all went to the same schools, and there was just like a ton of kids. All my friends lived in the most of my friends lived in those two subdivisions. Yeah, and um, that would be the thing. Everyone would walk up to Bouchamis and get like a slice of pizza or pop or whatever. We did it too.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

We had our own Bouchemies.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

I couldn't ever go. I had to stay home. I'd stay home with the mom. I'd be like, just bring me a slice. Here's my money. I couldn't go. I'd call my mom, she'd be like, absolutely not. So I would just like sit home.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

All right. Sorry. You can't share in the millennial experience of like we were just gone for hours on end. And I don't even know if we came in and checked in on for hours now without my mom asking me more. It's a different pod, it's a different podcast topic. But I do feel like now it is the complete opposite where we're not, like you said, we're saying, okay, go to your friends down the street, but you're tracking a watch they're wearing or you're tracking a phone they have, and you're saying, like, check in with me, let me know when you're there. So also I feel like maybe we've over like the pendulum went too far the other way.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

For sure. Even even with the things I wasn't allowed, the pendulum is so far over now. Like you said, I'm tracking Ava, but then I also want her to text me when she's there and she'll go, Wow, you can see it. And what if what if someone stole your car and you're there, but it's not really Eva. If somebody's wearing your tracker, I need a code word, I need a yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

Well, but I feel like some of that is legitimately, I don't know, it's always a balancing act, but because you have so many horrors put in front of you of like what's going on in the world, and I just feel like there's a fine line where I'm trying to walk, where I give my kids the stranger danger, but also I don't want them walking, especially as girls. Yeah, I don't want them walking around the world always like I could be in danger at any moment, you know. I don't want them to have fear, yeah, but like I do like a healthy amount of fear, but I don't know what that is. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I saw like even as grown women, we talk about like how you would not go grocery shopping after dark, and I'm like, I 50% of my grocery shopping is like talking to the very in a sketchy Kroger.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Yeah, no, I did see a TikTok and it made me like giggle, and I'm like, that's actually kind of I might have to try that. Girls coming home and they like live in the city and they're coming home from you know a party, the bar, whatever, and they're like, This is how I walk home now so that I don't get approached, and they act like they have they're like a homeless, like schizophrenic person. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

So they they don't get approached, and I'm like, I've seen some funny ones about girls jogging, like they're out on a trail jogging like Phoebe and just like screaming the whole time. Yeah, just like don't approach me, I'm insane. Yeah, but I mean that I do think that's unique to daughters. A lot of this stuff is like, oh boys, girls, with daughters. I feel like there is a very fine line where you have to tell them. We just had a conversation about this recently, too. You have to be aware, you have to be strong, you have to know what your boundaries are, but like you don't want them just perpetually being in fear.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Well, they even say when you're walking, I mean, think about it, if you're in fear, you're you almost go on. Yeah, you go inward, and they say if you are a woman and you are out, you know, you put your keys in between your hands, like you need to be aware. Yeah. Looking around. More aware. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 14:19

Which do not look like you're unfair to an extent to say to your daughter, like, you're, you know, your dad, your brother, they don't have to think about this. You do, but like, it's just facts.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

You do, you have to be more aware, yeah. Like the one our a mutual friend, um, like long if this is years ago, but I think of her every single time I'm out. She too liked to shop at night. Okay. Do you remember? And she had a story where she was coming out of the store and felt like somebody was following her. And instead of being fearful or running, or she met it head on and she turned around and looked that man in the eye at like, you know, 3 a.m. coming out of a 24-hour grocery store and looked at him and said, It's a good day to die. Oh, and like, wait, I don't even remember the story. Oh my gosh, she's such one of my favorite yeah, I'll show you share the whole story. But like, that's basically like she looked at him like almost acted like it's a good day to die.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Like you think you're the crazy one.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

Yeah, and he kind of she said he looked at her, turned around, and walked the other way. Yeah, like you know, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Yeah, she met and had to remind me. But I do feel like, uh, like I said, unique to girls and a conversation that is just ongoing the older they get, then they're in different situations. Then it's you're with school friends or at a party, it's not just being out in public, it's like then you have to have these conversations about. We just talked, me and my teenage daughter, about I was we were all we're always teaching our kids to be polite and kind and nice. Yeah. But if there's somebody who's making you incredibly uncomfortable or even a little bit uncomfortable, there's a point where your kindness can end and you are firm and you say, like, please leave me alone. Right. I don't want to have this conversation with you. Or leave me alone. I'm with my friends right now. I swear, no sooner did we have that conversation that like something weird happened to us. We were like out on the beach and somebody approached my daughter. All of us are here, a whole family. And he walks right up to a teenage girl with the family around. I think he was either inebriated or mentally ill. I'm I don't, you know. The point was, it was like, this is not a time for politeness or making conversation with this gentleman who was like clearly making you uncomfortable. So I was like, kudos that we had this conversation because it did not take long for the real world to just like happen right in front of our eyes as parents.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

And I was like, and you have and it's good that you equip her with like, hey, you can do that, you can you know stand your ground.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Yeah, we're not going out into the world with an attitude like leave me alone. Uh you know, mean to everybody, but I was like, there is a point where like kindness is not necessary, you have to be safe first, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

That reminds I'll never forget I was out with Ryan's cousins and we were dancing and like having the best night, his cousins and and his sister, and um, we were like having the best time, and then there was a guy, and he was he was getting like close to one of his cousins, and I didn't notice it at first, but he was scaring her, yeah. And then in turn, kind of scaring all of us, like, well, like what you know, at the time we were all married, like what you know, nobody's looking for that. And she turned, and I'm like still like laugh about it to this day, but she turned and looked at him and she went, You're creepy, and you're scaring us. And he you could tell by his reaction, I don't think he meant to do that because he was like, I was just having a good time or whatever. I was like, Oh, sorry, but she was just like, You're scaring us, right? Like, you know, sometimes it needs to be said in an assertive way.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

Yeah, she's like, You're creepy and you're scaring us. I love that he backed off though. Oh, totally. Yeah, he was like, I am creepy. Wow, I'm not sure. Then you gotta get somebody else. No, he was like, ugh. Sorry, guys. No, I like that. I do not feel like I have that in me, but I'm trying to pretend like I do to like tell my daughters like you need to have it sometimes. I don't think you I would I could see I now as an adult, oh okay, yeah, for sure, more like confident to just be like, ew, you're giving a vibe and I'm not here for it, or whatever. But like as a younger girl, yeah, I don't think I did. Yeah, you should have. It's important to empower them with that. Mm-hmm. Which also I was gonna ask you, I feel like we talked about this on a different pod. I feel like you brought it up just real quickly, and I was like, Oh, I don't know. Uh, also a trend of like gentle parenting. And I feel like we were raised not gently, you know, whatever the opposite term would be, and that's fine. I'm trying to figure out like where do you feel like you fall on that spectrum of like seeing what gentle parenting looks like? And this is probably you're you're starting with this with younger, much younger kids. Yeah, but it continues on into these like teenage years where you feel like you guys are I mean, draw a line for you because you have to ask.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

I think our I think our listeners want to know. I mean I know I respect incredibly gentle parenting. Um, I think that there's a time and a place for it. I am like I don't know. Embarrassingly the opposite of a gentle parent. Yeah, no, I mean that's definitely where I like tend to lean to. Yeah. I mean, maybe some people would say that I am in certain ways because I do um I am very like lovey and affectionate, and I can be soft. I have little nicknames for each kid. I yeah, but I'm also the parent that they come off the court and they're like, I think I might have had a bad game. And I'm like, you stunk out there. And yes, you did. So let's like let's do this again. Right. We're not gonna talk about feelings right now. That was embarrassing.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Yeah, you're embarrassed of family, like I'm not, yeah, I know. It is so wild. Because I do feel like too, if I would do a deep dive and research gentle parenting, I'm sure there's a lot of very good things to learn about it. Sure. When you tend, and I do feel like a little bit of that influence has come into like even the fact that we were saying on our last one, we're not gonna like pretend like we weren't wrong or we don't need to apologize sometimes or say, like, I'm sorry I flipped out on you. I'm also just a girl who's like really stressed out right now. I actually think all of that comes along with like, okay, but what's the motivation behind it? Where's the what are the feelings? Better understanding. Yeah, so I feel like, but sometimes when you see examples of it and stuff, it is very extreme and almost like comedic, and you're like, what are we doing out there? But I do think there's parts of it that I've I feel like I'm like, oh yeah, no, I see how that could be a better route.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Yeah. I've had I've adapted, you know, certain things just because you know we're more aware now. What I will say is I think that gentle parents will outlive us because they're obviously able to rein it in. They're not stroking out, like screaming at the kid, they're not in the kitchen. Their eye isn't twitching because your kid, you're teaching them the alphabet and he won't say the words the letter C, and I'm like, and my like eye is twitching, like right.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

They're not doing that. That was that was a while ago, too. And it has not gotten any easier because now the problems are just bigger. Bigger kids, bigger problems.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I do appreciate the influence of gentle parenting, where it's like, okay, let's reconsider some things. Yeah, but I cannot see myself. I was gonna say, I don't, you're not a gentle parent. No, not at all. We should have our daughter. I could see Ava and Alessia being like, oh do not give them a microphone. Yeah, Alessia wants so hard to like rebut all the things I say. She's like, give me the mic, and I was like, never over my dad dead body. Right? You can't go on there.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

I'll undo everything I've ever said. I turned around to her on get your own podcast, right? Some something that Aria was doing. I won't say it on here just in case it's on anything you. Want to share. Um, but what we were like what was kind of discussed on Sunday with Aria, like what she's you know dealing with or whatever. And I turned around and told Alessia, I was like, You should start doing it too, and she does it just to make it more fun for your mom.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Oh, because she was sleepwalking. Okay, yeah, yeah, he actually talked about it because remember when I said that Chris his reaction time was garbage when we thought there was like an intruder. I couldn't remember. Yeah. So she just we've been dealing with what might be sleepwalking all of a sudden at 11 years old.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

That came up and I turned around to Alessia. I was like, You should start sleepwalking too just to make it more fun for your mom. And she was like, But you know my mom. I'm not gonna do that.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

And I was like, I'm just kidding. She's like, My mom won't live. Two of us doing it, right? She's so stressed out right now. Yeah. Um, okay, I actually have this is and if we don't want to talk about it, that's okay. One of the things, I don't think this came from gentle parenting, but I do feel like it's like a more modern new age thing, which I feel like I'm trying to, my kids are much bigger now, but I am trying to um kind of decide where I fall on it, is a lot of this like body autonomy, where I think um in the past it would be like go hug everybody, we're saying goodbye, and now it's more like you can hug them if you want to and give them a high five. You can just walk by and say hi, bye, love you. And for a while I felt like I don't really even understand that. Just like make them hug so they learn how to give people affection or whatever. But like I totally do understand it as they get older that like you have to have a hundred percent autonomy of your body, right? And be able to say, like, no, or I'm uncomfortable or whatever. So I feel like I'm kind of coming around to I don't know how I would approach it if I was like raising my kids again. I don't know if it wouldn't be like go hug everybody, but I kind of understand how like it's a mixed message to say like anybody has access to you at any time to just give you a hug, even if you don't want one, or that's I think a little bit of a tricky area for me. I'm trying to sort out my feelings about it.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Yeah, yeah, I'm I don't have those sorted out for sure. And also because I think it's so tied culturally.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Yes, so I but also, yeah, culture, tradition, all of that is gonna change how it goes from like family to family and stuff, but also I feel like respect to some extent, where it's like, yeah, well, they deserve your respect or something, but like that, I don't know, that doesn't have to come in the form of like a hug or a kiss, or so I'm like, yeah, I'm definitely in the weeds on the I'm trying to sort it all out. I again my kids are big enough, and honestly, I've kind of given them the message that like you know, go say goodbye to everybody if you want to give them a hug, yeah. Like, but I don't force them to physically interact with anybody.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

I was gonna say it's been so long since I've done that. Now, right like top of mind for us has been very big on looking people in the eye, you know, saying hello, making sure you acknowledge when they're speaking to you, like put your phone down, look up from your phone, like all of those things. So it's been a while since I've said, you know, go hug someone. Yeah, go hug someone. Right. Because I think now they're just hugging who they're comfortable with.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Yeah, they're they're probably at the age where it's like not a concern anymore. But it it starts pretty early when you're saying like you're either telling you're setting the tone for what that looks like, or you're giving them choices. Yeah that we talked about like piercing ears and stuff. I feel like that's a whole new thing that like nobody ever talked about. She's like, boom, put the earrings on. She looks adorable. She's three months old. But I feel like I get it.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Some people are like, oh, they can just wait and make those decisions. I guess so. Flip it for a second. Yeah. Because these are the things that I think of that make it difficult for me to determine where I stand. Because when you just say it at face value, I'm like, yeah, it makes sense. I mean, you shouldn't be forcing anyone to, you know what I mean? Like show affection.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

Yeah, or just yeah, they don't have like access to your body, right? Like if they they want to hug you or something, you should always have an option. Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

But if I flip that and it's it, you know, let's say Ava, because she's the oldest, Ava's kid, yeah. In my house, yeah, and that kid's leaving, yeah, and that kid and Ava says, Well, we are teaching, yeah, like, and that kid's like, I'm not comfortable giving you a hug at this moment. You're gonna die inside. That's where the gentle will leave your body. I'm gonna have I'm gonna sleep on that a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

That is the hard thing because we've been blessed too to have safe families, and like it would never even enter our mind that that would be something that you would even think about. Right. But the fact of the matter is it's a conversation because other people don't have safe families, safe uncles, safe dads, safe Uncle Joey, but he's not really my uncle, he's my dad's friend. Like, and again, it can happen with women too. It just seems to be a little more heavy the other way. But all of that to say, it's like as soon as that becomes like it's on your it's in your awareness that not everybody is safe, even when you want everybody around you to be like, oh no, I trust. Yeah. The fact of the matter is it's not always, so then you do start thinking, like, okay, but as long as I make that child always feel safe, they should feel like my affection is not a problem or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

No, I mean it's a very good thought, and one that I'm not afraid to say, like, yeah, I need to I gotta give that some more thought.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

And I do think it would be so hard as like a grandparent. Again, we did not do this, but I understand and I respect that there are people like our peers that are doing it. It would be so hard to be a grandparent, and all you want to do is like squeeze that little kid or whatever, but it's like, is that more important than the lesson that they have their own bodily autonomy? But it's just so wild because again, these are topics that nobody discussed. No, and you didn't maybe you felt like you didn't have to, you didn't know it was happening or things were it's it's like it's always going on, we just weren't aware of it or whatever. So I don't know. I do feel like we all have this like heightened awareness of uh even just talking to our kids about like safe people. My gosh, you can't even go through the news with like out teachers, coaches. It is daily where you're telling your children like just because they work here, just because they attend here, or just because you saw them there, does not make anybody a hundred percent safe. Like feel what you feel, go with your gut. And if you are at all uncomfortable, that's worth talking about. It breaks my heart to see how prevalent not to go like down a super dark rabbit hole, but like there's so many untrustworthy adults.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

I know, and all very important conversations to have, and it's not like a you know, it's just something it's so it's so I don't want to say new, but it's such a uh different thing, different than how I was raised, and like I said, culturally all of it. Yeah. Um, I I haven't wrapped my head around that.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

No, and again, I feel like it's maybe more an issue when you're gonna start raising younger kids and you have to decide what your like family policy is. Like I said, we're a little bit past it in the sense that my kids are big enough to like make choices and know how they feel in their body. Okay. And if they're I don't have to think about we should talk about that right now. Yeah. No, I just feel like it's uh something I keep like hearing more about, and I'm like, oh yeah, that I'm glad that I'm thinking about that more than I ever had.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

I mean, me is like, you know, I guess outside of my family, I am aware enough that like, you know, if I see a friend and it's the first time that I'm meeting their child or whatever, like I wouldn't be like, come here and get out. Like you just have like a level of awareness. Yeah, I'm aware enough and I respect that enough. I'm just thinking deeply about like that in my home or with my own kids or with my grandkids. That's definitely something that I'll have to like think more about.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

But yeah, I mean, I think it's just I do think that we have like a uh I don't I don't know, we're just like on alert all the time in a way. Yes, in a way that maybe generations passed. Either they were and we just didn't talk about it as much, or they didn't have to be because the world didn't seem as crazy, but I don't know. It feels like it's so uh one of the positives I was gonna say, which is really fun for me, and I get really weepy every time I see like a good meme or a video about it, is that I do feel like raising daughters now there's more opportunity, there's more like that's not so much like this is what men do, this is what women do. Do you feel like that's something that comes up often with you guys? I it's cool too, because you have a boy and a girl. Yeah. So conversations about career, conversations about sports, like, is it feel very like even as far as like that's not something Ava can't or won't do? Because I feel like in years past, yeah, there was very much like I don't know, there's still all the data about women just getting paid less for the same position or whatever. There's the whole men women's sports thing, which is like so disturbing, but we're still where we are as far as like what happened at I don't want to get political, but what happened at like the Olympics with the hockey teams? Men win, women win, somebody gets a call, somebody doesn't, somebody gets invited to the White House, then it becomes a joke. Like, yeah, that's that stuff as a mother of a daughter. Yeah, I hate that we're still there. It's so much better than it was in years past, but we're still there.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

So, like, I don't know, does that stuff come up? I was gonna say, um, I mean, I think of it more in the sports world, and um you know, when Ava started playing sports and she chose volleyball, it was like so cool to watch it be so celebrated by the school, um even the people that you know, the crowd that came when you had like support. Yeah, like her peers, like the they would have a huge student section, and like the support that they got for me was so cool because thinking back, you know, 25 years ago when I was doing what I was doing, it was very much centered around the boys the boys, you know, and we were blessed enough to have a coach who you know she was like ahead of her time back then, making us like no, this is serious, this is our sport. We are girls, we are not like she really went to great lengths for us to have pride in our sport. Why do I feel like I want to cry? But not feel like we were tied into that because back then that's just how it was.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

So it's very and you could feel so like diminished because you're still working so hard, you're perfecting skills, you're putting in all kinds of time into like uh conditioning and learning routines, whatever the sport is. I know you're talking about like cheer and whatever it is, it's not that the work is less or the effort is less, it's just celebrated less. Yeah, that's the difference. So, like I love hearing when the girls' teams or whatever get the hype and the focus that yeah, that was a cool experience.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

And then, you know, my son being a part of the football program, like you know, you you still see um you still see that there are disparities and stuff. Which it's like, you know, I mean, football, it's they it's the the biggest thing, like especially for a high school and the whole community gets into yes, and it's not just the football team, it's the band, it's the cheer team, it's the dance team. So it's like a whole event. Yeah. So I I very much love that, and I love that so many people are included in that. But a lot of times what I'm what I'm seeing just even personally, and I'm gonna speak very, very carefully, but um I think sometimes as women, we almost ruin it for ourselves. I some of the the uh negative experiences that we had along the way in Ava's sport were because of how other women couldn't handle their emotions in how they ran things, or you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 34:10

Okay, are you talking about in the and again I'm gonna try and respect that you're talking carefully. You're not talking about like parents or athletes, you're talking about like the people who would be in charge of that program or okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Yeah, so I think like, you know, as women, we should step up and embrace how things are now and and the I don't want to say the the freedoms, but like the the things that are more accepted, like embrace that and like let's act like we are equal and bring in emotions and cattiness and things like that that the guys don't deal with.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

Yeah, except for I've seen a soccer coach like throw his coffee across the field. I love that. When women I was like, but I feel like when when I feel like there's a little bit of a double standard too when women have strong emotion, it's like ugh, because they're women because they're emotional, but men are allowed to have strong emotions, yeah. It's just it better be anger or like something that, like, yeah, it's aggression. It works for us in this situation. I'm talking like just like the social dynamic. Yes. Okay, I'm trying to poke at it without saying. I don't want to talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

Okay, different treatments or getting catty because oh, so-and-so didn't think bad experience. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 35:25

Like, yeah, which is exactly what you don't want to happen because one of the things I was just talking about with somebody from church, I was explaining, and I'm gonna say this kind of carefully, but like because my daughter loves sports, if she would we could let her play everything, she would play everything. It's just where she like thrives. She loves it, she's good at it. You can see her confidence come out there. I was saying, like, it does feel like a lot of our weekends are so busy. And then I saw this really cute video. I should have saved it. It was like, you know, the odds of a kid playing college ball or whatever, one in I don't, I'm gonna just say something stupid. One in a hundred. But is she more likely to run a business? And like they had all these other stats that if you were just in sports or you just had built your confidence to know, like, A, I can be part of a team and contribute, B, I'm strong, my body's capable. Like all these things that you do get out of that experience, whether or not it's college level, not important, is it's like something that our girls can feel like, oh no, we're very capable, very strong. They tend to do really good af um academically. I feel like there's a some point where girls are outperforming boys. It's not about that, it's like some of that other stuff they need to know. Like, you're very capable, you're very strong.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

It changed you're a leader, it changed my life, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 36:49

So then it it helps me go like this. Is not just about like kicking a soccer ball around or being the best. This is so good for them because it builds characteristics, I think, in girls that we don't outside of sports, maybe don't focus on because it's less feminine, it's less whatever. Yeah, it's just not as important. And I don't know, it is I think it's crucial.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

I actually think we have society nowadays has it flipped backwards. The it's the emphasis emphasis is so much on the accolades, the college, the D1, the this, yeah, which is all wonderful. And there are some extremely talented athletes out there that I love that there are those opportunities, yeah, opportunities are out there for them. That being said, everything you said is equally as important. I was not a D1 athlete, I did not get it. Still such a valuable experience. I rely on that so many times throughout my life, throughout my daily what I learned being a part of a team and having a strong female leader as my coach literally shaped me as a person.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

Yeah, there's like a mental toughness, there's like push-through, grit, like, and I guess of course you can get those through other activities too. I'm this is not unique to sports. I'm just saying sometimes because there's this disparity with boys, girls, whatever, I kind of feel like that's it's I see that it can be so important in building their confidence and their uh sense of like self. Like I'm I'm contributing something, I'm very capable, my body is strong. Like I love saying that as like a girl mom, like hashtag girl mom. Yeah, I feel like that stuff is so important.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

Well, and it helps you in so many areas of your life. You know how many days I didn't feel like going to practice, I didn't feel like you know, and she would instill in us, like, yeah, well, when you're in the workforce, you're not gonna feel like going to work every day either, but you show up zero days, right? Like you do a good job, like it's just there's so many life lessons in it that it's so much more than kicking a ball or a college scholarship or any of that.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

Yeah, and again, I feel like unique to my experience because I only have girls, but like we just took our daughter to gymnastics competition in Miami, and to see those old girls like on the beam or on the floor with like music and thinking their parents have been doing this for like 15 years, maybe, and it seems overwhelming to commit and stuff, but like I got teary-eyed watching them, it was like their like senior level, whatever, like highest level, and probably came from all over the world or whatever, just because like look at that. That is that is something that almost nobody in the world can do. I think like most Michelle Obama or something just had a cute interview about like looking at the Olympics and saying, like, okay, somebody could you could fumble through like luge or like you could fumble through these activities, some of those things most of the world cannot do, right? Any of it, and to think that your body is that strong and your mental toughness to get out there and know that you could fall and get very injured or whatever, like I was like, Yes, it's so important.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

Yeah, I got like weepy, they were not even my kids. Well, and it goes by so yeah fast. Like you think of it when you're you know at the bottom of the mountain thinking about the commitment, but the time from that to like when it ends, yeah. Sorry, is it goes so fast, right?

SPEAKER_02 40:18

You know, yeah, and like you said, so now we're uh 25 years out, you're still thinking about a coach, oh my gosh, a team, a commitment that like still like it's still back there. Those lessons were important. Oh I don't know, it just feels more important than ever because as much as there's a lot of like equality and women can do everything men can do, and I feel like I'm not even that's a whole different conversation. Yeah, I do feel like there's at least space for us to say you can do a lot. Oh, yeah, more than you've been told. Or my choose to say you can do anything for two minutes. Fair anything for two minutes is good for two minutes. I need that right now in my life. Like you can clean this kitchen, set a timer. No, I mean I feel like I'm not getting into the weeds of like everybody doing everything at the same level. I just want to say, like, you can do much more than people expect from you, or that or that maybe you've seen other people do. So I don't know, I get real like yeah, weepy.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

Oh, being a part of a team is important for everyone, but you know, women especially, I think in any way, shape, or form, whatever that looks like for you, it doesn't have to be, you know, athletics or whatever, but just showing up and being accountable and like like I said, it it absolutely shaped who I was. I think about it 25 years later, yeah, still talk to all of them.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

I mean, there's the evidence, right? Yeah, but you're still like talking about how it was such a good experience. So yeah. All right. I mean, I think we talked about most of the other things I wanted to talk about with daughters. Do you have any other thoughts about raising daughters? Nowadays, millennial moms, it's wild, it's so different.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

Yeah, I mean, just so many different I mean, we could go on and on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

Is there anything you do that is like completely the same as how you were raised? Like something that you're like, oh no, this will not change. I'm doing this exactly the same. Any like rules, any like it's funny, it was I was thinking of this is very arbitrary, but like we was just talking to my husband about like we should talk about like what is our rule for like when is when are girls allowed to date, you know? And he's like, I don't know. And I was like, mine was 16. I feel like it should be 16. And I was like, probably an arbitrary number. I don't know that my parents did any research or if it was about like driving an independence, or but I was like, 16 feels right. It's like I don't know, there's things where I'm like, it seemed to work for them.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

Uh why change it, right? I don't know. I mean, there's some things I'm doing the same, and some things so the the dating thing. Yeah. Help tell us what it's like. No, it's it's tough. I started dating around that age, and I mean I've been with Ryan.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

Dating, and I mean like you were allowed to go out on a date. Because like right now, my 11-year-old is telling me like they have boyfriends and girlfriends at school. I'm like, they're not picking each other up and going to the movies. So dating, leaving the house with a boy.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

Yeah. What's tough for me is I my like first serious boyfriend at 16 was from our church.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

Yeah, very good guy. So it's a very known f by your parents his whole life.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

He wasn't coming in off the street like, hey, no, I want to take your daughter out. And they were like, Who are you?

SPEAKER_00 43:37

Yeah, so it's almost like pointless to think about that because it was so different. Where now, like, okay, Ava at sixteen, depend like, ah, I hate to say this, but like depending on the boy. Sure, that's fair. You know, but there are very strict, like, there was like and still, I mean, she's seventeen and it's still the same way. It's like it's like a case by case.

SPEAKER_02 43:58

Yeah, and there's no like. Magic age where you were allowed to like and honestly, that didn't I don't think that happened for me where I all of a sudden had like three boys showing up. It was more like, I kind of like this guy, let's see if I'm allowed to. Yeah. And it would a lot of times be groups and stuff anyway. So I wasn't like testing the age where I was like, all right, 16th birthday. But I just feel like it felt like an arbitrary.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

I'm hoping to gently navigate her into making good decisions and like looking for you know qualities in guys, like don't just like date to date because you know, like I don't know. I I'm hoping that I'm um helping her make better decisions with some of the rules we've instituted. So I mean, still at 17, it's not like you know, guys are yeah, it's not like one cast some kind of threshold where now it's no and that's different, but like I said, just because of a a different you know scenario. But what I am doing that I didn't think that I I would, but I see now that it's necessary, so like sorry, mom. My mom was always um commenting on my appearance in in a healthy way, but kind of guiding me to say, like, okay, but like we're going here. So like that's not an appropriate dress for this occasion. Okay. Or I would come down and she would say, Okay, I love it, but you're wearing summer sandals and it's like fall. So like, let's, you know, or she would say, You need a, and I know your mom was able to see, like, you need a little color on your lips, you need a little color on your face, you know. So, and I would always be like, Oh, yeah. But now I have a daughter and I understand it, so I'll say, like, uh, it's like lipstick's like a little heavy for the ooh, can you get what you're doing here?

SPEAKER_02 45:45

Spaces and places. And I never thought that I would do it.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

But again, I see, I'm trying like I for sure knew I would do. Yeah, I'm just I'm trying to like, you know, she also represents like us right now. She's living under our house, so what I what I allow, you know, I'm I'm choosing to allow. So I I don't I'm tr trying to cautiously allow her to uh express herself but while also showing her like time time and place and reverence for certain things that you're going through.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

Which is a whole conversation too, where it gets so difficult because I was talking about that too with my husband about like how you dress, what does that mean? What are you representing, but also is it everybody else's responsibility? Uh, not everybody, is it your responsibility to make sure that you're pleasing everybody else all the time at any given moment? Or is there some balance there? That gets so hard. Oh gosh, yeah. So hard with girls in particular, because you don't want to send the mixed messages about their body or what they're responsible for and other people's actions or choices or thoughts, even, but also, like you said, like times, places, respectful. It's very, very hard.

SPEAKER_00 47:03

It's very difficult, and especially if you have a daughter who is particularly interested. Like, of course, I knew I mean, I guess I didn't know. I kind of had a a thought that I would have a daughter similar to me, and I've always been interested in fashion and what's in style. So that is also difficult when you're trying to say, like, hey, time and place, I love but like I get that it's in style to like dress like a Kardashian. And she's like, but I don't want to wear that, it's like not in style, and then I won't look like it's just it's a a daily term. Daily battle. It's a struggle, it's a daily battle.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

We persist in the struggles. Yes, we're not giving up, we're gonna keep working on it.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

That's honest, that's the key. Like women like to talk when you're raising a woman, you just gotta keep talk through it, communicate.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

No, right, you're not saying anything once, you're always like, let's re like revisit this.

SPEAKER_00 47:55

Yeah, keep an open line of communication, it's negotiations, it's you know, but you gotta you just gotta keep swimming.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:02

Up it's like uh against the current. Yeah. And it's like the world is not helping us. Yeah, it's getting harder.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

But we help that's why you need your village and you help each other.

SPEAKER_02 48:11

Your village and the people around you who you're like, I'm not crazy, right? Or like you're saying, like, okay, I just I just told them this, and like maybe a lot of the parents that we know are not doing this the same way, but like what did you do? You know what I mean? It does really, really help.

SPEAKER_00 48:25

The amount of times on a weekly basis I say, like, tell like tell me if I'm crazy is uh quite and sometimes it's yes, and we're open to that.

SPEAKER_02 48:33

That's all right. You gotta tell each other sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

All right, well, it's been good as always.

SPEAKER_02 48:37

Yeah. All right, we're also gonna do the um if you have been listening and you like the pod, will you review it on like YouTube or Spotify, all the places where it is? Will you share it? Will you chat with us? All of that is so helpful for just like getting it out there more. If we say something funny, give us a like, yeah, any of it. We love chatting too. Yeah. If you're chatting with us on socials, we love that too. Yeah, thank you. We appreciate it. Thank you for being here again.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

Yeah, and uh, we will be back soon with I don't know, more chat or something crazy. So bye everybody. Thanks again. We'll see you later.