Life Out Loud with Gina and Heather
Where two best friends get real about the chaos, comedy, and curveballs of middle age. From raising kids to rediscovering ourselves, no topic is off-limits. We share the unfiltered truths, the laugh-until-you-cry moments, and the conversations you didn’t know you needed. Think of it as a coffee date with your funniest, most honest friends—because if we’re going through it, chances are you are too.
Life Out Loud with Gina and Heather
Are Dads Different Now?
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From the dads who worked long hours and handled discipline to the dads packing lunches, scheduling doctor's appointments, and mastering bedtime routines, fatherhood has undergone a major transformation. In this episode, we dive into how the role of fathers has evolved over the generations and explore what's driving the shift.
We're talking about millennial dads, changing expectations, emotional availability, and shared parenting.
Hi Heather. Hi Dina. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm fantastic. We are fully in summer now. Kids done. Kids are done. I'm gonna scooch scooch it. Sorry. A little, maybe a little less crazy. All the end of this school year stuff is finished. I feel like I'm more crazy right now. I know. I'm sorry. As I was saying it, I was like, this is not actually gonna be true for us. But I'm glad it is for you. Uh yeah, it's a little bit we've had a nice calm like introduction to summer before we gear up and do other things.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, I feel well, and mainly I think it's because of well, sports, but driver's training is like kicking me in the butt.
SPEAKER_01Let me ask a quick question. How like intensive is driver's training? What like what is the schedule? How long do they have to go to class now? Because I did it through school.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I don't remember, I feel like it was like three days.
SPEAKER_02So segment two is three days. Um, and same thing, I did it through my school too, and now you go through a driving school. Some of the driving schools, like when Ava did it, she went through Courtesy, which is a local driving school, and they had classes at Eisenhower. Okay. So that was, you know, convenient. Yeah. Um, we're going through a different school for Gianni, so we actually have to go like to the school. But segment one is intense, it's like two weeks, but because of the way they did it, it's been three weeks. Okay. And it's like either it's like Tuesday through Friday, two hours.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh. I was gonna say, so how short are these classes if they're doing it for that long? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Two hours like a part-time job. It is, and then they have to get drives in too. So that's why it's been three weeks. Yeah, so we had to go three weeks because he couldn't like fit in all his drives in the middle of all that with his the rest of our schedule. So, like, just yesterday, I had to get him there at one o'clock, I had to pick him up at two o'clock, but hey, had to be back there at four o'clock, and then I had to pick him up at six o'clock. Oh, yeah. That's what I mean.
SPEAKER_01I feel like when we did it through the school, too, I think it was just like well thought out. Like you went to class for maybe a few hours, but you went and drive, you were driving in the middle of that, or at the end of it. Like you everybody's got in the car with the instructor, and then then you were practicing. It was all part of the same scheduling. Block.
SPEAKER_02Do you remember? I don't remember driving.
SPEAKER_01Like uh a little tiny bit. I don't remember it at all. A little tiny bit. I remember more like driving with my parents to practice, or like driving with other people when I was allowed to, but um, vaguely, I've blocked a lot of that from my memory. And I don't know. Practicing parking, and honestly, the anxiety of it all, like driving with some stranger. And our guy who taught wasn't even like a coach or a teacher I knew. He was like a real stranger.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So it just felt like you guys are just gonna let us go in this car with Steve, like three teenagers. It's so scary.
SPEAKER_02And it's all such a far like they don't learn anything. Oh, really? Because that's a lot of time. I'm like, what is this curriculum about? They learn everything when they're in the car with you, which is terrifying. Yeah. And like some of the stuff that they're so like specific about, like parallel parking, which I hear they now call blind side parking or whatever. Oh, okay. At least at the cur at courtesy, they were like pretty big on that, but um they like they'll dock you if you back up and you go like an inch over the line. And I'm like, I still can't parallel park and I'm out on the road.
SPEAKER_01It's silly too, because if you can do it like in functionally, if you get the job done, I don't even care if you pulled back and forth like 13 times. Like it's more of a practical skill. It's not like yeah, you were so close, but an inch over unless the line is well, you just backed into that guy's link in, I guess, depending on what these parameters are. But it's so stupid. I mean, who's doing it in one smooth motion, like dudes who like make it their identity or something? Yeah, all right, but let's not harp on the dudes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, sorry, we are here for a reason.
SPEAKER_01We're here for an important reason. We're coming up on Father's Day. We did do a Mother's Day segment, which was really fun. Yeah, I think we stretched that one to two weeks. Yep. We deserve it.
SPEAKER_02Because we can.
SPEAKER_01Because we're in charge. This will just be one. And this we'll see how it goes. This will probably be one. This might be one scamp episode. No, I'm teasing because really we are gonna shout out the dads today. And the approach that we're taking is just how different fatherhood looks for our generation. I will even say like younger coming up generations. Because I feel like we're, you know, we're like older moms. I don't know. But I feel like it's very is very different. Like if you go back 20 years, if you go back 50 years, like some really drastic differences, and not just like to us or in our circle, like these things are very general. I'm seeing a lot of it like talked about on the internet or socials. It's a very like widespread, excuse me, trend.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think it's even rather than evolving from when I had Ava, your children, yeah, to now. Right. And it's diff is it, it's difficult sometimes for me. Some of the things I see, I'm like, come, what? Like you need the dad to do that.
SPEAKER_01I do think that there's like an accelerating or a it's like way more different recently, even like like we said, like maybe the way our dads were as opposed to our husbands, but like even looking forward, now we see some younger moms, younger dads, and we're like, oh wow, look at him go. It's different. Yeah, it makes me feel old. I'm like, I know, you can only imagine if we were like 70, going like, okay, so we'll kind of break it into some different categories, but I think overall, we're here to shout out all the things that dads are doing, and it is for some people drastically different. Some incredible dads out there. Yeah. So if I said something like, it's funny because I saw this posed as a question online, and it was like, if you think back to like the 80s, and I was like, okay, so go back about 20 years in your mind, and then I was like, the 80s or 40 years ago. Ew. Horrible. Don't do that math. Stop it. Yeah. But their question was like, Did you think the average dad would know, like, what is your teacher's, what is your kid's teacher's name? No. Where is their doctor? Uh, did you ever pack a lunch? Were you at like a weekly practice or something? Not like a big game on the weekend or whatever. And it was kind of the overall thing, was like, that's laughable. Do you know what I mean? It wasn't even like, yeah, most people, I think it was kind of just like no to all of that.
SPEAKER_02Well, like the Nate Burgatsy skit when he was like, you know, like the school called him to ask him like what bus number his kid was on. And he was like, I would rather you call a mom that doesn't know my kid.
SPEAKER_01Like, you're better off calling a stranger but a mom.
SPEAKER_02She would get to the bottom of it faster than me.
SPEAKER_01Like, my It's so funny that you brought him up though, because we just went and saw his new movie. And I really want him to do well. He's a great comedian. He seems like a great guy. Yeah. But he made this movie called The Breadwinner, and I'm seeing so much talk about it. Because the whole premise of the movie is that it's that dad. Yeah. He can't handle anything. And now his wife's got an opportunity, and he's got to bumble around and be like a fool. And it's a heartwarming movie. We saw it. But the pushback socially really on the yes, I told Chris, I'm like, I'm sad for him because if he would have made this movie in 1985, I think it would have been like killer crushed the box office. I think now it's almost people are like, ew, are we still laughing about inept dads? Like, I'm seeing so much pushback because generationally, yeah, this is not cute or funny or a thing anymore.
SPEAKER_02It's not, but what bothers me about that is we've come so far as a society, but also like in certain ways, we've gone backwards because it's like that movie is his lived experience. Right. And that's his art, that's his perception, and that's what he found to be funny. And guess what? If you don't like it, you don't gotta like it. Yeah, like scroll around. But this whole like narrative, not to go off on another thing of like this doesn't relate to me, so I find this offensive, like, no, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_01Or okay, this is this is something in years past or something, but like to be fair, I do feel like it's so exaggerated to be ridiculous because that was people's lived experiences, and there was nothing funny about it. It was just like, oh, dad can't do anything, right? But I told Chris, I'm like, if he would have made this movie years ago, I think it would have been an instant classic. It would have been a rip roar and laugh time. Yes, and you're like, oh, this is my dad, or oh my gosh, this would be you if I left you home. Now it's kind of like, I mean, that's ridiculous. Right. And I think people can't find the humor in it because they're afraid that it's perpetuating like this. We still think this is funny. I think, like, no, no, no, we're all past that. Not everybody. I think most of us are past that. Right. That trope of like, dude, I can't do anything. It's just silly. Yeah. Whatever, but I I love that you brought it up because I love when he like jokes around about it. It is very realistic to think like what if the pediatrician called your or my kids are on a field trip, Metro Beach, like a local park. It's like a all day, they make you put your insurance information, and it's like, who do you call? And I was like, clearly, number one is me. Like in the event of an emergency, like you're never gonna say, like, call their to. Right. If you can't get a hold of them, like some people would maybe dad's closer.
SPEAKER_02Well, that is that's fun. Looking back, and who knows, maybe part of that was us too, generationally. Maybe we didn't speak about it as much, but no. I mean, my dad could tell you what school I went to, which is where the school was. He drove me a lot of times. He couldn't tell you my teacher's name, but I mean, us for us, our house sports growing up was very sports was cool. Fun, interesting. It's where he engaged a lot. So weekly practice, every game. Yeah, your dad asked me about my kids' sports. Like my dad has probably been at some of your kids' sports. Right.
SPEAKER_01I'll find out like someone will text me and be like, he was like, I'm 100% in on this. This is fun.
SPEAKER_02So, like he knew that, you know, but nowadays, yeah, Ryan could tell you all the kids' teachers, like all of that.
SPEAKER_01And I feel like there's so many reasons why that's the case. Like, number one, I guess a dad's role in years past, if it was more traditional roles or whatever, it was like your provider, you're the one working outside of the home the most, even if maybe the mom worked, maybe it wasn't necessarily as much, but that's completely different, and it's uh so we have a lot of working parents, like two working parents. Also, I feel like uh dad was like the certain things guy, like maybe he was the disciplined guy or the like the authority, he came down hard, and then mom was like the soft one or something. I don't know. There's just all these like generalizations, but I mean it's fair to say it is wildly different. And there's just some like fun things that I feel like are fun to talk about. Like, I have heard men of let's say my parents and grandparents' generation like brag about never changing a diaper. Yeah, oh I didn't know, I never touched a diaper. Yeah, I'm like, I think you think you're bragging. And in my little like millennial, what are we? Old millennials, what are we called? Elder elder millennial. In my elder millennial mind, I'm judging you so hard. Yeah. What how long were your hours? It wasn't about the fact that you were out of the home war, it was just like dads don't do that. Because there's there's no world where you were never home to change a diaper. It was that, like, even if you were home, dads don't do that.
SPEAKER_02Right. No, Ryan was changing Ava's diapers first out of the gate in the hospital, right? But a funny story to uh confirm that when Ava was born, and I'm speaking about Ava obviously because she was my first, so this is your oldest. Yeah, and my oldest. We're going back 17 years. In case Gianni listens and it's like, what? She we took her to see my Zia Silvana, and at the time she was kind of on on her way out. She was, you know, in her last years. Yeah. So it's not like she was like, I don't want to say she was like out of it, but she wasn't like completely with it, but she was still there, like she knew who we all were, you know. And so we went to her house, and that was when I think Ryan might have met her maybe for the first time. I don't remember if she was able to make our wedding. Okay. Anyway, we brought Ava to see her. We want it was important for us. She wasn't infant. Ava wasn't in still very little.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02And we were sitting at the table, and she looked to my dad and she said, in Italian, and I didn't know until I hear heard him like explaining to her. And then when we left, I'm like, what was that about? Exchange about, yeah. She said to my dad in Italian so that she didn't offend us, but it Ryan was holding Ava. Yeah. And she said to my dad, What's going on? Is Gina okay? Like, is something wrong?
SPEAKER_01Why is like why wouldn't you be holding that baby? Why is he holding this baby? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like she was so like it was so foreign to her. Right. Forget about changing a diaper, but just him holding and caring for Ava while I was sitting there talking to my aunt, like she said, like, is she okay? Like, right? What's going on? Why is he holding the physically incapable of holding the baby?
SPEAKER_01She must be, right? But this is where I'm being, I'm trying to be so careful because I feel like know better, do better. Also, cultural differences are gonna be a huge thing here, right? But also, some of that stuff, I think we can all sigh and go like, glad that's not a thing anymore. And that's kind of an example of it to me now, whether you change 50% of the diapers or the mom, you know, whatever. But like to not hold the baby, she was like, What's going on? So many things that I say to my husband, too, because very same thing. He was changing diapers in the hospital, he always did bedtime routine with the kids. It's like it's this is not about vacation time for me. Do you want to have a relationship with these little people? I'm with them so much. Thank God I was able to be with them a lot. But do you also want to be any kind of like special figure in their minds and hearts? You that takes time. And thank God, I do believe that generationally, because even the way working looks, some people have way more flexibility with being at home or having a flexible schedule. Dads are available to step in and do those things that it's not just about caretaking, it's about like what time do you have with the children? Right. You know what I mean? So, like holding a baby. I love when I see like dads doing um what do they call it? When the baby comes out? Skin on skin.
SPEAKER_02Oh, skin on skin. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it creeps me out sometimes. I'm gonna put a shirt on. I don't think I could get Ryan to do that. It's cute. I like it though, because I feel like even that is about bonding. It's not about hold this baby so I can eat my first like sushi because I've been off this for nine months. It's like, so he has that special little magical time too, whether or not it's skin. It's just another things that dads were maybe never expected to do that now they like happily step into. Or maybe it's uncomfortable. Yeah. Like you said, like maybe Ryan's not gonna take off his shirt.
SPEAKER_02No, but he did feel because I breastfed both kids, he I think felt a little um, I don't want to say robbed, but like left out because he didn't get to feed her. Like it was so much time. Yeah, like I mean, if I was gone, then he would be able to feed her and and Gianni as well. But so that's when he would, he would do the bedtime routine and he would he he dried her hair like more than I ever have, to the point where now she's 17 and when she's like you know doing homework and she's like, and I still have to dry my hair, I'm gonna blow up my hair. I've started to do that for her because I'm like, I didn't get to do that.
SPEAKER_01I thought it was dry your hair, I'm gonna cry.
SPEAKER_02No, like I mean, he probably still would love to do it if she'd let him, but like this, it's just about time share. Yes, all growing up he did that, and I loved it because I was like, though that those are your moments, you know, with her that and I I felt a little robbed too. But now I'm like, no, I'll I'll blow dry your hair now.
SPEAKER_01I'm not gonna lie, I was just saying how Chris did bedtime with them a lot. When they were got older, too, because I feel like bedtime when you have an infant, it's like, what is that, even? You know what I mean? You try to have some kind of routine where you put them down and run away and like pray. Yeah, like bathtime. Bathtime, bedtime story before bed, he would take them and do that, and I would sit down on the couch, like probably the first time I was alone for 12 hours. I should be up there, right? Even the guilt. I would be like, Yeah, I should be up there, right? Like, what if they're asking him questions that like he hasn't talked to me about? How we're gonna get like all that would be in my brain. But when you said something about uh Ryan even having that, like um not jealousy, but like, oh, I don't have that time with her. That's where for me too, some of this is not just about cultural differences or time management or flexible jobs. I don't know if it's the way that men are being like raised and socialized differently, but like even that instinct to not want to miss out on something that you're gonna do. Yes, I don't want to say it it wasn't there before, but it's maybe it's more like mainstreamed or social to say not social, acceptable to say like no, I I want time with them. That's like maybe my time with them that's special or whatever, where maybe other dads would just be like, if I can't feed them, I don't, I'm not on deck for that. Right. I can't be responsible for that. So good luck with all that. You know what I mean? That instinct is I think worth praising. Yeah, oh, for sure. And I feel like we know so many dads that are like that, like our own husbands included. I'll say my father too was definitely not one of those, like, I go to work, I come home, I sit in my easy chair, like he played with us. Yeah, I can definitely remember him like rocking us to sleep. Yeah, that instinct to me is like that's a father. Yeah, I think some people want a family or they think that's what you do. That's like the natural progression of things. But unless you genuinely want to do those things because it means a relationship with your kids or time, yeah. That's the difference between like a guy who had kids and a father, right? Oh, yeah. So, like kudos to that. And I do think the more you encourage that in dads and say, like, no, this is really important. Because one of the other things I was like researching was that part of what's kind of changed our our model of parenting or our expectations is learning about children and how they develop and how important that is. It's not all just about like, well, whose job is less flexible and who's the default parent. It's like you want to know what's the best thing for your children, dad being involved like from the very get, yeah. From infancy. Or and again, like we're talking about ideals, and I know not every situation is the same, and not all dads are available to do that, or God forbid, you don't have your dad from through your whole childhood. But I feel like it it gave a lot of like credence to the fact that this is not just about like, oh moms are so tired, like step up. It's like this is truly what's best for your child to have a bond with you, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it's also best too to allow the the back and forth, the ebb and flow of both parents, where it's like not just one parent. Like, I remember specifically, and I don't know what it's gonna be probably hard for me to get wait.
SPEAKER_01I was waiting.
SPEAKER_02I mean, you can't talk about a girl with that name. It's like I'm a waiting for a minute, yes. Girl can't talk about her dad without crying, but um, you know, my dad was uh a uh he was a very strong presence, but he was a f a force to be, he still is a force to be reckoned with. So of course my mom would be like but if my dad got mad, it was like but he also allowed for her to be like, no, like she said it. That's it, like go to your room. Right, united front. And but he would always, and I loved it, and I didn't ever look at it like he was undermining, undermining her uh decision or anything, but I got to see a softer side. He used that, which I think is cool 40 years ago, you know. He used that moment, he would come into my room after I would get in trouble, and I'd be like laying in my bed, like and he would like come and like lay by me. And like I loved seeing that like softer side, because usually he was the one that was like uh hard, like disciplined, right? But he allowed her that and he supported her, but he came and silently like you know, comforted me.
SPEAKER_01He didn't like set you free from your punishment.
SPEAKER_02Just like I'm here with you in the trench, right? And I still like remember that like getting to see that like softer side, like it is important too to allow, you know, like it's not just like well, mom does this and dad does that. I was able to see both from both, which is important.
SPEAKER_01That is really cute. I love that, especially knowing your dad, right? I wouldn't want to make it mad.
SPEAKER_02You don't want to make my dad mad, but same.
SPEAKER_01I feel like dads came in, and that was, and that'll speak to one of the other categories that they were bringing up. They came in, they were like the authoritarian or wait till your dad gets home or whatever. So, one of the other categories that they were saying things are evolving and wildly different is just like emotional availability. So we're kind of moving past this like man up, toughen up, men don't cry, get over it. Because if that's what's modeled to you. Did your dad cry growing up? I don't feel like I saw him cry in front of me. Let me think about it for a second. I mean, I've for sure seen him cry now. Trying to think about when I was a child. No, not necessarily. I don't remember seeing him cry much, but I do remember that he was like soft and talked about emotions. He wasn't like a man up or toughen up buttercup, which is what I can't say to my kids, ironically. Some kids are too soft. No, I'm saying, like, I I wasn't like, oh my gosh, my dad is so stoic. Does he have emotions? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. What about you?
SPEAKER_02My dad was he no, he didn't. Cry. I saw other emotions.
SPEAKER_01But it was anger. Yeah. Because you made him mad.
SPEAKER_02We could talk to him and didn't take your vitamin. Right. Seriously, getting grown up for that. Like, no, I didn't see him cry a lot. I did see him cry um in church like spiritually, being like touched. Right. And that was so interesting because his his like cry voice is also the same as like his beginning to get mad at you voice.
SPEAKER_01You're like, ooh, this could be going either way.
SPEAKER_02So when me and my brother, my sister first heard him like in church, like everyone else probably thought, like, oh, how beautiful he's touch. And we were like, no, guys, it's about to get ready.
SPEAKER_01You don't even know what's brewing. We were told.
SPEAKER_02Ready to ruin the room. I didn't see him cry like until no, you know what? The first time I heard him cry when I got married.
unknownOh.
SPEAKER_02He called me on my honeymoon, left me a voicemail crying that he missed me. Heartbreaking. Yeah, because I get married, you know, yellow.
SPEAKER_00That was the first time too. I think the first time.
SPEAKER_01I was like, oh. You made him cry. I'm like, we have to leave. We have to go hold my dad's group. Something's very wrong with my dad right now. He would love that we're talking about this right now. He would hate. He can never. I'm so sorry. Don't tell anybody. No, I'm trying to think if I can think of like when how young I might have been. But it probably was in more of like a church context or a spiritual context. But uh I do feel like uh having emotions and like because I have brothers, none of that was like, oh, dads don't talk about that stuff. Or you know what I mean? Like that was not a thing in our household.
SPEAKER_02Something, right? I feel like Brad's one of the people I go to.
SPEAKER_01Like if I have emotions, and I feel like so much of that is model. I tell Brad way too much. Brad can handle all the things.
SPEAKER_02You're like, I don't even tell Brad that.
SPEAKER_01I'm sorry. Yeah. But I do feel almost like uh, I don't know if that's like a generational thing, and we're all all talking about our emotions much more men, women, children, everybody. But I do feel like that's an important thing, especially when I think it's important when you have girls because they're modeling what a partner in a man would look like. Yeah. So if he's not gonna talk to you about how he feels about something or something, I'm like, oh, that's not acceptable. No, but then when you're raising boys too, like we just talked about um, I don't know which topic we were talking about on the pod, where you were saying like Gianni did not want to engage when it came to like, well, what do you like about those friends or how do they make you feel? And it's like, right, because in years past it was like men don't have to talk about those things. Or or men don't. A good man doesn't. Yeah. I feel like I think we're done with that, right?
SPEAKER_02So now wait.
SPEAKER_01Can we be done with that?
SPEAKER_02Does Chris have your girls see Chris cry?
SPEAKER_01Ooh, that's a great question. Have I even seen Chris cry? Yes, I have. Uh yeah, probably like a funeral or something. Yeah. We've lost family. But my kids are really little. I feel like I'm gonna get this wrong. Probably. Yeah. I'm gonna say probably.
SPEAKER_02Because it's interesting, it has evolved, but that to me is still kind of one area where it's like, I mean, my kids see Ryan crying. Yeah, but they see me cry like all on a Tuesday. Today, right now.
SPEAKER_01What time does your dad get home? I'm so tired. Uh no, I'm trying to think for sure if I get that right. But I will say he's not um, it doesn't happen easily. Yeah. He's pretty like stoic. But it's not about not doing it, it just it takes more for him to cry. I'll cry like at the drop of a hat. No big deal. Takes more to get him there, but he definitely like he was telling me hit him and my oldest daughter had a long ride home from something the other day. He's like, we had a really nice talk. Like she really asked me some good questions about like deep and I was kind of like jealous that I wasn't in the car. I was like, Well, what'd you say? Like, but I was like, Good, yeah. He's so important, and I'm glad that she talked to you. Yes, and not like, well, I'll save this one for mom, or you know what I mean? Like the things that we talk about with him in the room and or with him exclusively without me, wide open. Yeah, all the things, like all the things.
SPEAKER_02Oh, and that's so important that she gets his perspective because you know, our kids are both of us, and I do feel like Ava, a lot of times when she has an issue where she feels like like almost like she's being too much like me. Okay, she'll go to him. Okay, you know, counterbalance, yeah, and I'm glad for it because you know, I probably wouldn't, you know, give her what she needs in that moment, but also I'm nosy. I always want to know. Like, what did she say? What did she do? Yeah, yeah, I do.
SPEAKER_01I'm always like, and how did you respond to that?
SPEAKER_02And do you feel like it would have been the same thing I would have said? Great. Well, I'm always like checking, double checking. Most of the times it's not what I know, but that's good. He just has a way of like uh and it's no, I don't, I don't think I do with Gianni. I think I'm pretty harsh. I think I just like I'm like blah blah blah. And I just like say it, and he has a way to like soften it, which is okay. I was gonna say, what is it?
SPEAKER_01It's more like a thoughtful, like take a minute and give then give an opinion.
SPEAKER_00Or you're kind of like, I'm coming in hot, I already got a thought.
SPEAKER_02Consider their feelings, or like, you know, or I'll just be like, aim higher, right?
SPEAKER_01Do better.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, do better, and he'll be like, Well, did you think about yeah, you know, so I think you know, there are certain things that they go to him, and I'm glad that's good though, and that's why I feel like you you need two parents who are not the same person.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and for boys and girls, seeing your dad model all of those same like feelings, disappointments, anger, certainly, I feel like is with the one emotion men are allowed to have. We were just laughing though. We were watching people hug, boys hug. I'm not gonna get too specific, but even when they hug each other, they like hit each other. Yeah, they're hard. It's you can hear it. Yeah, and my daughter is like turned and they're like, What is that, right? And I was like, why is it an audible hug? Why are they hurting each other a little bit even when they hug? It's just like men, yeah, men. They're tough even in that moment or something. I don't know what that is. It's cute, but I feel like it's so important to see that modeled. And so none of that stuff is off limits dads. Like you're not, you don't have to be stoic. No, or the only emotion you do freely show is anger. Like you're allowed to be sad, disappointed, yeah, cry with your kid. Happy, excited. I mean, nobody wants you to be like crying with them all the time. Right, no, that's that's also weird. Are they still mad at us? Just take it easy. Take it easy. I mean, yeah. Um, then I feel like this was an interesting one too. I just saw this news story. I don't know if you're gonna be aware of it, but because guys have taken on so many new roles as like being a default pair, like maybe they're the caregiver full time. Yeah, the mom is working. Maybe it's just more of a 50-50, and so the guys are on deck for more of the like one-on-one caregiving. This story was just a guy, like I think on a road trip with his daughters. But did you see? Um, I wish I pulled it up. I'll just try to real quick. He was like in a public bathroom. The women's bathroom.
SPEAKER_00Oh, is this why I saw some of the things? Yeah, okay. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And we can talk about that all day long. Actually, I would like to get your thoughts on what you would do in this situation. He was a guy with two daughters on a road trip. So they're at like one of these, you know, on the side of the road places, like a I don't even remember the name of it, but like a gas station bathroom, whatever. He was in there with his two daughters, they're washing their hands or whatever. Not even a woman, maybe a woman reported it, but a guy like came in to the door of the bathroom and was like berating this guy about being in the women's restroom. And he videotaped it because he felt like I don't even know if we're safe, and I I certainly don't feel like I'm doing anything wrong, so I'm gonna videotape it. So you see, I didn't watch the whole video, you see this guy like berating him about and he's scaring the children, yeah, and he's being mean and forceful, and he's on the phone with the police reporting this guy. Okay, so I have a couple of questions. First of all, what should that dad have done in that situation if he's on a road trip with his two? I'm assuming they were younger girls because if they were like teenagers, go to the bathroom with your sister, take care of each other. Yeah, younger girls, like what is the right call there? He should have absolutely gone in the bathroom with them.
SPEAKER_02The women's. I'm saying it was a men's and a women's. Women's bathroom, because you don't want them seeing something. And in my opinion, yeah, I and I know if this were Ryan, I also think the way it's handled, and I don't know what he did, but I think if you walk in and you say, excuse me, everyone, I'm gonna have dad here. I'm gonna stand off to the side, yeah, but I have two little girls.
SPEAKER_01No, I think he even, they might have been so young that he even had to like help them in the stall or whatever. But all of that to me, I was thinking to myself, I completely agree with you. I was thinking, what if I was just like a spectator in the bathroom at that point? Not a spectator. What if you know I'm in the bathroom also? I mean, not to not involve. This isn't my husband. I'm saying if I was just like a woman in the bathroom at wherever, Target, and a man comes in with two little girls. Not even a thought. I do be nosy. I am gonna hang out and just check out this situation because I feel like first instinct is always like, are these girls his girls? Oh, well. I would be super nosy about it, making sure the girls look like they were 100% comfortable. Yeah. Yeah. Calling him dad and all the things, check out, but then I would just be smiling at him, like, go on, do your thing. You're gonna be fine. It's this is brutal. I'm sorry you have to do this. And maybe I would hang out the whole time because that would make me personally feel comfortable. Like I oversaw what was happening, feel good about it. Then whatever. If somebody came in, like irate and stuff, I feel like I would be like, uh, let's just hang out and observe.
SPEAKER_02I think everything's cool here. It's interesting that that happened nowadays with so much of you know, there's been so much discussion, you know, worldwide about how people identify and what bathrooms they can use. Yeah. And so I almost wonder if it's made people go the opposite way, where maybe that was somebody who was so reactionary, like so outraged by the fact that like now anybody can go anywhere, but it's like, come on, look at the situation. This guy's like got two little girls.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's what my gut feeling was, too. Is this was a reaction without using any common sense. Yeah. And because it is like a social topic that's so like hot button. And then you look like the idiot. But that and so the guy like posted the video. The police came and basically were like calmed the girls down because they're freaking out that they're like some strangers yelling at them. Which I just feel like irony, the irony is you're the villain in the situation. Because he moved terrified, these little girls who were just with their dad safe a minute ago. So he they come in, they like calm everything down. Nothing happens to this guy, didn't do anything wrong. It's not like they hauled him off to jail or whatever, and I don't know what happened to the other guy, like the filmer. But I was just thinking to myself, like, what would I do in this situation? And like, if we want dads to be more involved, like we were talking about how like there's changing tables and different, you know, all these things are like changing. Then I feel like also we have to get used to seeing, like, oh yeah, I'm gonna eat dinner with my great aunt, and the uh Ryan's gonna go change that diaper, and you you gotta be like ready for the like backlash or the comments or whatever. But like, yeah, this is we want this.
SPEAKER_02I wondered what happened. Somebody, one of my friends or somebody posted something that said, like, FYI, if I'm ever in the bathroom and a dad comes in with daughters, you're safe with me.
SPEAKER_00And I was like, Why are we talking about?
SPEAKER_01I was like, Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02Cool, me too. I don't know what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_01Like, I do be noticed. I know I would just hang around and watch that situation play out. But man, I've also been in a situation. I was just in like a Costco bathroom with a mom and a kid and a blowout diaper. Remember, we were just talking about my own experience, and I didn't want to be like an overbearing creep, but I wanted to be like, Do you want me to hold your diaper bag? Like, I know how hard this is in this moment. Like a crying baby and a blown-out diaper, and you're in the like changing thing. I just wanted to like help her and be like, Do you need some help? I'm here for you. So if that was a dad with girls, I don't want him to trust me with his girls. I would just say something like, Do you need any help? Or do we need, you know, I could stand by the door, give people a heads up or something. Because man alive, people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, gnome down.
SPEAKER_01No, dad made the right choice.
SPEAKER_00I thought so too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I love it because I do think the internet's like supporting him. Yeah. And saying, like, what do you want him to do? Take him into some truck stop bathroom for the men?
SPEAKER_02Like how many dangerous, how many kids go missing from the rest ups? Well, I was there with Ava in the bathroom. Right. In two different stalls, and she was, you know, like, I don't know, 10. Like, so she was old enough to use the stall herself. As I was like, make a mess with toilet paper, don't touch anything. Like, you know, I was guiding her. Just being in the stalls. There was a a lady that was talking to her. It was making me very uncomfortable. Oh, yeah. Where are you going?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because even a woman, you can't be like, oh, that's fine. It's probably a mom.
SPEAKER_02You can't trust anybody. It's like, no, heartbreaking. Dad made the right choice.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I loved it. I thought, I'm sure there's comments both ways, but the news story that I like read about it, the gist of it was like, and people are defending him and coming for the other guy. Like, calm down. Like, where do you get off? Like, calm down. We don't need everybody like you know, videotaping, calling the police. Don't you have somewhere to be?
SPEAKER_02It's a rest stop.
SPEAKER_01Abby, what are you doing? Go, go to where you're and it was a man. I thought it was a woman. I kept seeing these like news stories, like customer, you know, berates man with children. And I was like, Oh, it's like a Karen. It was like that softball game or the baseball game where she like steals the ball from the kid. It was a guy, and I'm like, oh, that's so much worse. What are you doing? Like, nobody needs you. Like he came in like the sheriff vigilante. Yeah. Okay. Are we? I'm asking you personally. Are we trying to? So you said at the beginning of the episode, too, like you even see things differently now from when you were having your babies. When you see that stuff, truly, in your gut, are you kind of like, oh, dad's gonna do everything? Are you kind of like jealous? Like, we weren't doing that that that way when we were or is it more like, oh, good for them? What do you feel when you see dads doing even more all the things that maybe even 20 years ago, 15 years ago? Am I gonna get a hate comments for what I really think? You say whatever's in your heart with an edit.
SPEAKER_02I t I tend to lean a little more old fashioned. I know. I think it's the way we were raised, too. Yeah. And it is cultural. It's probably cultural. Fortunately. My uh instant feeling is annoyance. I'm like, seriously, where's the what's where's the I'm my Zia Silvana?
SPEAKER_01See, because I'm like, but do you then do you fight against that a little bit or are you good with it? Because it's what worked for you.
SPEAKER_02It's what worked for me. I felt like we had a really good balance. We don't have like these specific roles, like when I see certain things, I don't look at it and I don't think like I'm jealous because I think if I needed Ryan to do that, he would do that. Yeah, but I almost think it's going so far to the other end where I'm like, So what's everyone doing? If mom's at work, like whatever. But there are certain things where I'm like, dude, like you couldn't just do that. Like you couldn't, like, I don't know why. In my mind, I'm like, yeah, okay, like too far.
SPEAKER_01And like you never truly know what anybody's doing in their home. So if you see them out in like a public space and the dad's always got the kids and stuff, you're like, okay, but like I don't know what happened before they got here, yeah, or whatever. I don't know. I'm I'm definitely leaning the other direction. Like good for you, anti-traditional. Yeah, yes. Like, why why is that auto? Why is the default for the mom to take care of this or that or whatever? And it goes without without the time spent or the whose job is what as far as like money and uh working outside the home. I don't even actually care about some of that stuff. I just feel like sometimes it's like, well, that's the mom's job. Yeah, and that comes from a place of like tradition and culture for a long time, and so some of that stuff I just want to like push on and go like, why though? Who told you? Yeah, who told you that?
SPEAKER_02I think for me, I I relate it to um I appreciate very much a very like masculine man, and I can say that confidently because I have one who's not misogynistic, like he, you know what I mean? Like he supports me. So when I see that a lot, I almost think like ew.
SPEAKER_01But can I push and say, so who said that taking care of a baby or I don't know what they're doing in that moment? Who said that that's not masculine? Or that's not the type of masculinity that we like because I feel like there's a little bit of a wave right now going on, like culturally, where we're going back to traditional rules. This is what works, and and even so far as to say, like, this is what God intended for you. Take care of kids, you are a provider, and I'm like, oh, I think we have to be really careful about that. Yeah, no, I wouldn't go that far. I'm just saying, like men's men, men don't concern themselves with like children's diapers. And I'm like, oh no, no, no, no, no. I'm not talking diapers, I'm talking like I'm trying to like what another example it would be of like we're like just like, why are you doing that?
SPEAKER_02Like if I if I drive by, and again, please, nobody be offended. I'm just telling you what goes on in my little brain, like my baby. Like, no. And obviously, you know, I I got my own, like, I got a temper, like I deal with my own things here, so just please, this is my personal opinion. If I drive by and I'll opinions a bus stop, and it's like all dads for elementary school. Okay, and it's like, you know, I don't know, 8 30 in the morning, and all dads are standing around drinking coffee. I think that's great. And Ryan has gone to the bus stop with my kids. Yeah, my initial thing is like, where are all the moms? Like, if they're all at work, like go go.
SPEAKER_01What if they're just home on the couch, but the dad says, This is the last time I get to see this kid before six o'clock. It's beautiful, right?
SPEAKER_02It's beautiful. I'm just telling you what my initial, I'm just like, where's where did all the women go? Like, where is everybody? Again, I'm not saying that's how it should be, but you asked.
SPEAKER_01But it it's important to recognize that we're asking that question because of all the input that we were given, how we were raised, or what was going on in our homes, our grandparents' homes. So then I just I love when you kind of go like, but why? Yeah, but who said that? But why? I'm really bad at that, really. Really bad at it lately. Yeah, I'm butt whying to everything. See, which I'm going to do. And I have noticed that. And I'm going through a phase of like, who cares? I don't want to know. I don't even know what's going on. I got a butt why for everything. Yeah. Deep stuff. Like stuff that like I'll we'll go and walk to me. My husband's because we have daughters.
SPEAKER_02Does it revenue up more? Like, because I feel like I'm in my like, I just want to chill. Like I'll walk by and be like, cool, you do your.
SPEAKER_01I feel like I'm just I have like a peaceful butt why. And I usually only butt wise to my husband. I'm not like shaking up the system anywhere I go. Yeah. But I do feel like because I don't, I don't know, more, more like uh we have more knowledge than we ever have. Yeah. And I feel like you kind of start seeing things in a different way. Even when we were laughing about like a man spreading last week, yeah. Or in some future episode, we're talking about rage bait and then and now we were talking about things that drive us nuts in public. I can't think. But anyway, I'm sure every guy's gonna be like, oh my gosh, not that big of a deal. Calm down. It's not about like the physical act of it's about like women are they go through the world differently, and you're always taught, like, don't make a fuss, take up less space, yeah, make yourself small, don't whatever. And I'm like, why? Why are you just sitting there as comfortable as you can be? When I was taught to like, you know, make myself smaller or sit whatever, and I feel like that kind of stuff is interesting to me.
SPEAKER_02No, I think for me, I just I feel very um comfortable in my role, and like I said, comfortable, and I'm not saying that you know, anybody who thinks differently isn't, but for me personally, you're at peace with things. I'm at peace with things, and I know my husband, I know the relationship we have, I know how in absolutely involved he is with our kids, and you know, he did he did go to the bus stop, he had a cup of coffee, like he did all that stuff. I'm just telling you what my you know, yeah. But because I know that I have somebody who supports me with anything I need, and I don't feel like it's so like gender specific. Right. You do that, that I guess I don't question it. And when I see it, if it looks different than what I did, I'm not judging, but I am like a little bit though, not judging, but I'm just like, what's going on over there?
SPEAKER_01That looks weird, which is an important thing to say. I feel like whatever your role is as a father or whatever, wherever you land on the spectrum, whatever works in your home, yeah. If everybody in your little nuclear family, if that works for everybody, like I don't care what you do, right? You know what I mean? I'll be judging, or I'll be like, what's going on? No, yeah, I'm seriously saying it doesn't have to make sense to anybody outside, because even like I keep bringing up that comment, but even what your aunt was saying or something, you don't have to, whatever you do in your home doesn't have to make any sense to your Italian aunt who has nothing to do with your day-to-day life, whatever. And you can go be respectful to her and just say, like, well, Ryan loves holding the baby, whatever, you know. But whatever works for you is what's best, but also as soon as it doesn't work for you, whoever it is, dad, mom, the children, you gotta talk about that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Like, where did this come from? How did we settle into this where this is the thing? And like, I don't know, you're seeing it different all around you, and you're going like, Wait, what are we doing? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, and because I do think it's so important, like I was saying, like with my parents, like to have the ebb and flow where it's not just one person. I do think it can be kind of um a slippery slope slope if I feel like as a woman, I am so like looking out for everything, like, but why is this? But why is that a why that you are almost like taking it to the other end where you're saying to him, like, this is exactly what I want. This is oh, you talked about that, like, no, it should be like this way, then you're almost taking that away from him, and we're going back.
SPEAKER_01For sure you can go too far the other extreme too. Yeah, I don't know if it's about like having daughters or something. I just feel like I see so many things and I'm like, mm, but why? But why are we doing that? Yeah. So I I'll get through it. I'll get over it.
SPEAKER_02Dude, I'm at the point where I'm going to be able to do it's worthwhile asking why people aren't pulling their weeds. Maybe I should ask why for other things. That's mainly throughout the week. Why? Why do you pull your weeds?
SPEAKER_01Why are you not pulling your weeds? Um, okay. I mean to wrap up, I feel like my overall feeling is that I love the direction that we are heading with dads being super involved in their children's lives. Like dads at the coffee thing with donuts in the morning at the schools. And like, I do believe that a lot of that comes from a place of privilege where people have more flexible jobs. Yeah. Certainly not here to make anybody feel guilty when they cannot do those things. There's always gonna be limitations. But I do love the general trend of like, let's not stay stuck in roles that weren't even created by us. Like the the roles that are like, oh, but the dads do this and the moms do that. Like who who and when did we decide that? So I love just the reassessing. Like what actually works in your family? Does that work for you? Yeah. The dad doing that and the mom doing that, or is everybody happy with that? I love the just the direction of yeah. Let's look at that closer or shake that up, or I'm I'm just as available as you are.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I could take on some of these things, or you know, and it's so um, you know, so much of it is your own perspective. Before we before we wrap up, I would like to talk about or ask, what do you think? Um, like do you think you married your dad? And what are the things that you think are different from how Chris is as a father, as opposed to how Tom was as a father, is as a father.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so did I marry my dad in general? I would say he's very his his uh what is that word? Yeah, demeanor is very similar. Very similar. I see a lot of similarities for sure. I feel like some of the differences are about like uh cult not cultural, but like our situation where my dad was like a nine to five at work guy. Yeah, Chris is a work from home most of the time, so much more flexibility and stuff, but then like we would shoot hoops in the driveway with my dad. Like I said, my dad would be like rocking us to sleep when we were younger. I remember those things. So I feel like a lot of that I would be so discontent if I had found a guy, and I think this would have came up in the dating talks or whatever, who was like, No, I go to work, you raise the kids, when I get home, I want like an easy chair and a drink or something. And I would have been like, What are you doing? Like, it's not 1952. I feel like a lot of those things we stumbled into, a lot of those things were very intentional talks. Yeah. And it wasn't about like, well, I deserve a break. It was like, these little people that you created are 50% you as well. Like, you want to have a relationship with them? That's what this needs to like look like. And let's talk about right. What do you think? Same question back at you.
SPEAKER_02Um, I think I would probably say the same thing in a lot of ways. Uh, I did marry my dad in Ryan. Um, just with things like that, you know, like around the house, Ryan is fastidious about like the lawn. The that like my we all my dad kept a beautiful house. Um, Ryan can fix anything, like all of those things. Some some of the temperament is the same as my dad. Ryan's a lot more chill than my dad. Um, as far as being a dad, um, I would say he's pretty similar, but a lot more hands-on, which, like we were saying, I think it's a lot of it is just about opportunity. Opportunity. We own our own business. Yeah, so he's scheduling things, he's around a lot more. My dad, same thing, was you know, nine to five. Yeah. Um, and I I do think that that they're very similar in the way that they father Ryan is, you know, a lot more hands-on just because of the times and and things like that. But it's also an interesting dynamic because you grew up and it was girls and boys. And our daddy seemed to be. Uh-huh. Yeah. And I grew up same thing. I had a sister and a brother, and now I have a girl and a boy. So it's also interesting to see the difference in the fathering of like, you know, how he fathers Gianni is how he is different than how he fathers Ava. Where with you, you know, Chris is dealing with you know two girls. So um, but yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It is important though to note then, too, like we said, you're either a role model to what it is to be a man and a father later on in life, if that's what you choose to do, or you're a role model to be a man and a partner to your daughter. Like, this is what a partner should look like. So you're either being a role model to your son directly, like man to man, or you're being a role model of like you want a guy who's going to meet you on this or talk with you about that or demonstrate this. So, so important. Yeah. And we're so thankful for good dads. So good dad. And honestly, we have so many men. I was thinking about this in our circle, you know, uh, family, extended family, friends, church family, who are so very different. Yes, very different in like their nature and their, but like so many good dads. Oh my gosh. And doing it very differently, yes, not looking like my household or what they do. But when push comes to shove, like so sincere in the fact that they took on that role very like this is so important. Yes, I'm not gonna get this wrong, you know what I mean? Like, we're always making mistakes, but like it is like a calling, it's an important role. It wasn't like, yeah, I mean, this was the natural, I guess you just you get married, you have a couple kids. Yeah, it's like such a big calling to be a good dad.
SPEAKER_02To be a good dad, to be a good uncle, to be a good, you know, big cousin. I mean, just you know, even the the men that don't have kids, there's so many like influential in our life who Gianni looks up to and like Ava looks up to.
SPEAKER_01Like it's uncles, guys from church that are just like a little bit older and you're looking for like role models for your kids.
SPEAKER_02Like, thank God for that. So grateful for that. For my dad, my husband, uncles, my brothers, everybody, everybody.
SPEAKER_01All the good men.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01That honestly, even if they're and they never change a diaper, we know in their heart they were trying to do their best as a dad. And if nobody told them to change a diaper, we'll give them a pass on that.
SPEAKER_02Pass this weekend now.
SPEAKER_01No better, do better. Right. Everybody should be changing diaper. Yes, no, I agree with that for sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00All right. Happy Father's Day, guys. We appreciate you. Thanks for stopping by, and we'll see you later. Bye, everyone.