Be Her Village

In this episode, we’re opening up an important conversation about women’s mental health, postpartum struggles, and the power of supporting one another. We share practical tips for recognizing when someone may need extra care, ways to show up with compassion, and simple things you can do to better support the women in your life. Whether you’re a partner, friend, family member, or a woman navigating these challenges yourself, this episode is a reminder that support, understanding, and connection can make all the difference.
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https://www.alexisjoyfoundation.org/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hi Heather. Hi Dina. How are you? I'm good. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 0:13

I'm good. Good. We're here. We're back. We are here. We're back.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

A little bit impressed because I feel like we're coming up on what's close to a year. Yeah, I was just thinking about that. Because I was thinking about one of our first episodes being holiday stuff, like traditions and transitions. I mean it wasn't the very first. But I'm like, oh, we're coming up on like Halloween and stuff, and I feel like we were talking about all that back then.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

We'll probably have to like start marketing season two. Season two coming soon. Most people take breaks. We haven't taken a break. I know.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

I think we have one week off this whole year. I'm really proud of us. We're here.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

We're back. We're back. And we're back with a a really important, but a little bit of a uh I don't I guess we can say heavier.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Yeah, it's weightier. Weightier.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

It's not, it's not necessarily just like fun fun chat chat. No topic. In light of, I'm sure most people are aware or have heard whispers of the Lindsay Clancy trial that's happening right now, which we're clearly not gonna get into because we're no way experts, and it's a devastating situation no matter how you look at it. Um, but it's brought up this topic to our minds of women's health.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Yeah, I feel like it seems like every few years or something, there's something that kind of comes up. Sadly, it's usually something tragic that happens that just brings this conversation back to the forefront. So as tragic as like you said, no matter what the outcome of that case is, and it's a lot of people on like social media with like they're very into the case and like the outcome, and for sure that's interesting, but I think we're here more as just like good, is this an opportunity where we can help other women talk about just uh being a mother, your mental health, how hard of a time this is, and like what can we do? We're just coming from uh we're certainly not qualified to give anybody any advice about anything, it's more just like how can we be helpful in this conversation?

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Yeah, disclaimer we are in no way mental health experts.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

No, no qualified.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

If there were rankings, me specifically would be at the very bottom of that. Um, but we are living our life out loud like we've always promised, and in that uh same vein, we like to make sure that we're a safe space to be able to give not only laughs but advice that it has worked for us or that we've, you know.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Because like we said, we're not qualified to be certainly giving any um advice about like mental health or how to, you know, seek out help or whatever. I do feel like we both have been mothers and we've gone through varying stages of like the hormonal ups and downs, the what is my life, who am I anymore? And so just talking about those things, whether it's somebody else's experience or not, it's like this is not something that we're not discussing anymore. I feel like maybe generations past it was a little more taboo to say things like I was not happy or I did not want to hold my baby. You know what I mean? I feel like I was like, Right, you know, like please, let's just give voice to some of the stuff. And it might not be everybody's experience, but I think it's it were it's worth talking about for the first time. So we kind of just compiled, I would say, some ideas, did a little research about just things that we can do as two unqualified, not um professionals, just two women, two friends, to you know, people with a voice that can definitely look around at the women in our lives, and then also hopefully spread some awareness if somebody else has the opportunity to look at the women in their lives, and just think about some things that we can talk about or do, yes, or say to get this conversation even more awareness and also just be helpful when we can, baby. Yes. So, do you want to start us off with one of your one one idea for how we can just support women during pregnancy, during postpartum? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Uh so first one being stop asking. Am I gonna cry through this whole thing too? Like, sorry, everyone. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

I'm gonna get it together. Well, I mean, for I always tease you because you cry more than I do. To be fair, like this again, lived experience. Also, uh we can touch on it more later, but we have a dear friend who we lost to um postpartum depression. Yes. So this touches us in a way that maybe for other people it's uh like, yeah, gosh, that that story, that trial. We I feel like it's fair to say tears are valid and like expected because this is something that touched us closer than I think we ever thought was possible.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Yeah, thank you for saying that because for sure, and anyone who knows us probably knew her too. So it it does, it hits a little harder, and we will link her um foundation and information after this. But to pull myself together and go into the first one would be stop asking only how's the baby, but ask how are you? Yeah, which is huge, and actually wait for the answer because sometimes you can be completely in love with your baby and still be depressed and be completely excited about the situation and the new life and and all the new things that you um are waiting for and memories to make, but still be anxious about the future or how that's gonna look. So it's really important to uh be that safe space for someone to feel like they can have time to and space to answer that accurately.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Truthfully, yeah. Because I feel like when you're asking it, I think you expect to hear, like, you know, I do feel like everybody wants to know about the baby, how's the baby sleeping? Or you know what I mean? How's it, how's it going? But I feel like if a woman felt like they could actually say, I mean, the baby's great, I'm struggling. Do you know what I mean? Then that is a huge opportunity to just be like, yeah, tell me more, you know what I mean? And I feel like if they don't even feel like they're allowed to be that transparent, that's a problem. Yes. But if we're not giving them the opportunity to say, How are you? Like, I care about you. I love you. Of course I love your baby. I'm worried about you in this moment. Yes. It's a whole nother conversation to open up. Yep. To and I feel like you actually mentioned um the next one in a way. It um it was kind of quoted like, make it safe to tell the truth. Meaning, you know, we are not gonna have these hard conversations with people that we don't have close connection to. Like, you're not gonna like meet a woman in the grocery store and be like, How's the baby? How are you really? You know what I mean? These are for your maybe your close acquaintances and stuff to like even like lead with your own story or something. Well, I remember, I mean, I loved that baby, and there was nothing better than you know, but also there were some days where I was like, I would have been happy to just like drop the baby off somewhere, yeah, and not see it for 48 hours. Or I feel like part of that is like making it safe by being vulnerable yourself, yes, and saying it's totally normal to have those feelings. I don't understand why. One of the things I will always say that I love, love, love about our pediatrician. We've kind of moved past having a male now because I have daughters, but he would check on me every baby visit, and I did not understand that at the time, even like it was like, how's breastfeeding going? Ugh, it's rough, you know. He would say it's a natural process that doesn't make it an easy process, right? You're doing great. Like it was very much like he would pay attention to me too, and I feel like uh it gave me an opportunity to be like, oh, it is harder than I thought, or whatever. It wasn't like just say the right thing and get through the office visit, you're a good mom. It was like, oh, I'm struggling, and he was just my pediatrician, but it it did make me feel like seen as another patient in the room. Yes, he wasn't even my doctor, but he was like, You're also valuable, and your experience is important here. How is it going for you?

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Well, he made it a safe place for you to tell the truth by obviously that wasn't his actual experience, but maybe from seeing his wife or other previous patients, and I think that that's so important because sharing your story can be creating a safe space for someone to say, like, oh, you too. Right. Because there's a lot of times I remember when I was uh getting ready to deliver Ava, my mother-in-law gave me a piece of advice, and at the time I was like, Oh, okay, like, or maybe not even a piece of advice, but shared a little of her story. She said, I want to tell you if right when you have her, you don't feel an instant connection. Oh, yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, you're not like broken, you're not broken, everyone processes it differently, and oh my gosh, am I so glad that she said that because I was one of the ones who it's not that I I didn't feel an instant love, yeah, but I'm such a left brain overthinker. I was so overstimulated and like chucking her fingers and her toes, and then I had a C-section, like that didn't come for a minute, but that comforted me hearing that, like, because maybe if I didn't hear that, maybe I would think I was broken or I was selfish or something was wrong with me.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Like, but creating that safe space for someone by sharing your experience, so and I do feel like she got out in front of that and said, like, hey, heads up, just so you know. And I feel like sometimes we're afraid to be that transparent because you think they're gonna think, right, oh, there's something wrong with you, I was fine. You know what I mean? But like, just the miracle of having children, but the what your body and your mind and everything that's happening in that short window of time is so overwhelming. Yeah, that like if your body and my body don't deal with that the exact same way, our minds, our emotions, why on earth would we expect it to be like, oh, well, there's must be something wrong with you. I mean, I feel like there's such a range of what people experience. It's good to hear that other people are like, no, no, no, no. I did that too. I went through that and she was very good to like get in front of that and say, just so you know, yeah, that's good. And that shared experience, like you said, made it feel like, okay, there's nothing wrong here. No, yeah, I love that. That stuck with me. Um, just a little addendum to that one. I feel like sometimes too, we, as I'm really gonna say I'm guilty of this, because I'm like a older mother looking back at that with such fond, like rosy eyed glasses. Uh, I feel like we tend to like, oh I know, but it's hard, but it's all it'll all get better, or like you kind of romanticize, like, but these are the best days of your life, don't like wish it away. And I feel like that's probably damaging advice. It's not helpful to hear, like, oh, you're in the thick of it, it'll get easier, or oh, you're in the thick of it, you're miserable, but don't waste this time, appreciate your baby. I feel like when you're looking back, you tend to like, oh, I know, but you'll be okay, or or you do remember those days fondly, and you think, I know, but every moment's precious. I feel like saying that to somebody who's struggling, I'm trying to make myself more aware of that, is more help, more hurt than help.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Right. And also, like you said, realizing that what our bodies have achieved and gone through, but also the stories are never exact, they're never, you know, complete. My story looks different from your story. Be cautious in the way that you create that safe space. Like by sharing your story, like I I breastfed both children until almost a year old. I know you breastfed as well. But I have to be careful because don't make a mom feel bad if she chose a different method to feed her baby or if she's too, you know, share your story, but in a way that you're not making someone feel like, oh my gosh, am I doing it so wrong?

SPEAKER_00 12:24

No judgment at all. Just like yeah, just be cautious. Genuinely tell me, how are you? How's it going? What is hard? Yeah, what did you what's not going the way you expected? Maybe asking more questions as opposed to saying, like, well, it's all gonna be great. You know what I mean? You're doing great, mom. Like, I feel like I tend to try to help them with advice or something. It's like that's they don't need that.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

That's a great comment for the grocery store. As opposed to you're gonna try for a girl, you're gonna try for a boy, like the comment. Just say you're doing great, mom, when the kids have a tantrum.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

That's a grocery store, Kevin. That's a good one. You're doing great, mom.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

But to your close friends, not you'll be glad someday, like you know. No, but to your close friends, yeah, yeah, keep it, keep it open-ended so she feels she can, you know, yeah, right. Vent. Um, the next one I will go in with don't confuse functioning for being okay. And it is, you know, a pretty a pretty important one because as women we are amazing creatures. We're strong, we can push through. Obviously, we were tasked with giving birth to life. So we can take a shower, we can make an appointment, we can get the groceries, we can get all that done. That doesn't mean you're okay, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Some of that outward stuff where you might look at somebody who showed up to a family event or to church and their clothes are all on. Yes, and it seems like, yeah, they're doing great. Like, yes, you we can we all know we can put up a good front and get things done still and be absolutely just like falling apart or crumbling.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Mental health symptoms are not always visible, right? So don't just say she seems like she's doing all right, like you know, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

I like that. Um, I love this next one because I keep hearing it in reference to people who are also like grieving or going through anything hard, family illness, and I struggle with this so much because I feel like it's so easy to uh offer help, and then when you're the person who needs to accept it, you're like, no, no, no, no, don't trouble yourself. But the advice was don't wait for somebody to ask for help and don't even do the let me know what I could do to help you kind of thing. So you have a new mom in your life, you come with the idea, like let her reject it if she's completely against it. But you just say, I'm bringing dinner Thursday, right? You don't say, like, what can I do? Do you guys need meals? And then it's like on that person to think, like, do I need meals? What meals would my family? You know what I mean? Just come with the help.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Or how can I help you? I want to bring you dinner, yeah, and I won't take no for an answer. So tell me what day works.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Yes, and if you have any food allergies, give them some minor choices, but like, don't put the burden of I do need help, but now I have to think about how could that specific person help me? They're not gonna come clean my bathroom. I don't know. Right. What can they do for me? Or I'm gonna come if you're comfortable with it. I'm gonna come one day this week. I will just take care of the baby for a few hours. You can nap, you can take a shower, I don't care. You can go out, do whatever you need to do for yourself. I've got the baby. Yeah, like just come with the either suggestion or the like a little bit of an aggressive like, please don't tell me no. I'm telling you I want to do this. And so I just want a little bit of information from you about how to best help you. But like, do not turn, don't turn me down. Yeah, and don't put the burden of, I feel like you do that when somebody passes away or they're going through a really hard time. I mean, I've done it. I know I'm saying I'm like literally the worst. I'm like, let me know how I can help on attacks.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

Which I'm saying in the most genuine way.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Yes, but then when you're in the because I you realize it, yeah. More recently, my family has been in a situation where so many people were reaching out to help us, and it was like, Yeah, I think we're good. We're good, you're so quick. No, I just was aggressive there. You have to say, no, there will be food on your porch. Pick it up. Yeah, I'm saying though, but then it's like it does take the burden off of like, well, what could they do, or how should I ask? Or it's just like, here's help. Yeah, I'm I'm I know this is important. I'm gonna be a little bit pushy about it. Yeah, I'm doing this for you. That's let me know how to best help or whatever. So important. Yeah, and I don't think it's specific to that, like maternal or postpartum time pregnancy, and uh, but it's it works in all phases of life, but gosh, is it important then? Because I feel like you know what it feels like to be like the laundry is not done, the dishes are not done, I have to figure out something we're all eating, but the whole day has just been like spit up and crying and you're filthy, and it's like, why do I have to think about all these things? It feels inhuman. Like, what am I a superhero? Like, why is this my and you are you are, but you should also have a village of superheroes around you who are going to also step in when they can.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

Yep. Okay. This next one I love, and we've talked about this in several it just always comes back to sleep, like with health, with everything, but protect her sleep. And if you're a parent that's there helping a child who just gave birth, if you're a husband, a spouse, anything, helping them with protecting their sleep when they are sleeping, caring for the baby, taking over nighttime feedings. If it's a breastfed only baby, yeah, there's still things that can be done. Say feed the baby. I'm gonna bring the baby to you to feed, and when you're done, I will take care of changing diaper diapers and making sure that the baby goes back to sleep. There, you're not completely um, you know, inept because the baby is being felt fed, you know, by a breast. Like there are other things you can do but protect sleep because that's so and that's tough too because I feel like you have to be pretty close to the situation.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

You're like a mom, a sister, a spouse at that point where you know what the sleeping looks like or whatever. But um I remember when we came home from the hospital with my first, we actually still lived with my parents, which we're building, and my mom brought like a mattress down from upstairs so she could be where we were, and it was like just whenever the baby wakes up, come get me. And you know, you even if it's your own mom, you're like, Oh, this is my baby, I'm supposed to do this. But I I feel like there's a little bit of a stigma there with like it's like a badge of honor to be like, no, I'm supposed to suffer through this, or but like when your sleep is affected, and like we all get it, women have been doing this for thousands of years. When your sleep is affected on top of everything else, it's not it's not like a what is the word I'm looking for? This is not like a lack of effort, this is a medical issue as much as any other like postpartum complication, like an infection or a serious illness. Like your sleep affects your health. Yeah. And so we can only be expected to do so much when our health is being impacted so drastically. And so everybody who's had the experience of a newborn knows it's like, oh, pie in the sky stuff, like try to sleep more. No, it's important enough, especially if you see that your spouse is struggling with the lack of sleep. But I feel like even that people are very different in what they can tolerate. Like my husband exists on way less sleep than I do sometimes. Then sometimes I'm like, you need more sleep. I don't think this is good for you. Like that range is big. So if your experience was that your baby gave you these nice long four-hour, like, you know, whatever, and somebody else is living off of 15 minutes at a time, like that is very it's like an emergency medical situation because it's not sustainable for your body, and like what can you do?

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Those were some of the moments that I felt the most like uh the prevalence of my postpartum were w at night when I was because I'm so literal and they said that I had to like you know feed her every hour or whatever. I like listened to it to the point where then when I went back for one of her checkups, they were like, wait, you're waking her up? And I'm like, they just told me she know what it said. I knew she was feeding. I was literally waking her up, feeding her, and she would feed for so long that by the time I would like put her down, I'm like, I think I have to wake her up again. Like, I was that's how it was, and I felt like I was I could literally harm someone because I was on so little amount of sleep. Sure, you know, yeah, it is, it affects you.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

It's so relatable, and then I sometimes feel like when we tell other people, we're like, oh my gosh, I know that's motherhood, or it's the hardest thing you'll ever do. But like, no, let's not glorify it. Doesn't have to be the hardest thing if if there is support or help or ways that dad can be like assisting, get you know, keeping an eye on you to make sure that like he's saying, like, wow, this is really this is getting really rough. I'm gonna have to do more of the midnight, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

There's nobody there keeping score or taking away motherhood points. Exactly. Someone rocked the baby to sleep besides you.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Right. And it's not a badge of honor to have like suffered more, particularly, particularly when you are literally like suffering and you feel like you cannot be telling anybody about it because you'll they'll you'll just get like a well, yeah, it's motherhood, that's hard. And you're like, oh, okay, so everybody guys just agree. And I'm there's something wrong with me. How long does this last? The rest of my life. Life out loud. Like, just say it. It is very, very hard. Yeah. Very hard. Okay. This one again, I feel like more particularly for the people that you know the best in your life, your close acquaintances, good friends, family. Notice changes. Try to notice. Try to be extra aware of not just like um, you know, whatever symptoms. You're you're looking for do they not text me as much? Or when I text, are they short and it's not just about being a busy mom, like they're not, you know, like conversing with you? Do they seem more anxious? And I feel like if you know somebody well, like if I would say, okay, you're my best friend, I know, I know exactly what your demeanor is like. But then to see you as a new mom, like naturally you're more anxious, texting me less. But then having conversations where you feel like, okay, I'm not hearing from you. I just I just want to make sure that you're just you're busy, but you're okay, like just checking in on like noticing those patterns of behavior with people that you're you're particularly close to so that things aren't going unnoticed by the people that are closest to you.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Yeah, you know, because you will notice it. I mean, we're we're all a team. If somebody around you is, you know, giving birth, you're on that team now.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Like you need to support them in any way you can, and that can look like looking for changes and giving them permission to like you know, say, like, I know that you're not gonna maybe we used to text a couple times a week and now you're a new mom. I'm not looking for like, wait, we have to keep everything the same, but I'm just I want you to know if I don't hear from you, I'm gonna check in. I just want to make sure you're doing okay, what else I can do to be helpful, or just the way that they're talking, if it sounds alarming, like you know, that doesn't sound like them or whatever. I just feel like we have to just maybe be more aware and notice things like that, especially if you know that person pretty well.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

Yeah. And you kind of a baseline for and if I can add, you know, checking in on I remember like specifically with my sister, feeling like, okay, I'm the older sister, I've already been through this. Yeah. So when I'm asking her if she's okay, you know, I want to make sure, like, maybe she doesn't want to tell me because she wants to feel like, no, like I can do this too. So I would go the back route and double check. I'd be like, Mike, you know, Mike, if she said she's okay. Yeah, how's she doing? She seems all right. You're still checking in on her, like indirectly. Yeah. I mean, I would ask her, but then like I said, you know, double check and just say, like, how do you think she's doing? She's doing doing all right. You see her more than I do, everything seem okay. Yeah. You that was smart. I don't think you can overcheck on somebody in in that time. Knowing that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

I don't I don't know that I've ever heard anybody's experience where they said, like, I wish people would have just left me alone, or I wish they would have helped less or checked on me less. If nothing else, all the constant checking and whatever is just another, like, it's like it's just another expression of like we love you dearly and we want to be like the first aware. If there's anything, you know what I mean? It's not like we're worried about you. Are you doing okay? Are you gonna be able to manage this? It's like we love you, this is hard, and we want to know. This is a universal experience. We're checking in on you because we've been through it, yeah. You know, it's yes, and we have a lot of confidence in you. It's not about that, it's about like it's also very hard. Yeah, and we want to make sure you're okay, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

Yeah, and on that same line, the next one um that we've you know compiled was ask the uncomfortable questions. So, you know, it's okay to say, are you having any thoughts that scare you? Are you afraid you're gonna hurt yourself, or are you having any thoughts of harming the baby? I mean, those seem like really like G's.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

I know personal questions. You're like postpartum visit by the OBGYN. Yeah. Which I turned the whole thing into a joke because she was like, Do you have any thoughts of like hurting yourself? And I could genuinely say at that point, I was like, no, harming the baby, no, harming your husband, and I kind of laughed. And I was like, Are you gonna tell me that's abnormal right now? I think it's normal, right? When I'm like he's snoring and I'm breastfeeding, yes, I do have thoughts. We kind of like chuckled through that, and and I honestly I appreciate that they are asking those questions because it if nobody else in your life is, they need to be. Yes, but wouldn't it be a shame if they're the only ones? Do I mean that medical professional is certainly there to help you with that? But what about your close relatives, your family, your best friends? Like, we can also get into we've talked about some pretty hard, uncomfortable, awkward things. Like, I feel like it's I don't know, it's it's sounds like oh, I couldn't say that or something, but like if there's a past it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

If there's ever a time where you're willing to risk offending a friend, it would be then. Yeah, you know, like okay, yeah, it might offend you now, but when you're when you're past this stage, you're gonna look back and say, Well, she loves me too.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

I get it. Yeah, I totally get that now. Yeah. Because I do think that people could take it in a way where, do I look like I'm struggling more than the average person or something? Like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I know how hard this is. Are you okay? Like, are you are you feeling like yourself? Are you feeling so overwhelmed that you like? I mean, there's a lot of jokes about it. Like, uh, we talk about him. Napergetzi has a whole thing about like how hard they work on you in the hospital to not shake a baby, but like, why do you think that that's even a thing? People are so overwhelmed and stressed physically at their limits where babies get shaken, right? It's like a thing. So it we have to stop like acting like it's a funny conversation or it's something that's I'm never gonna ask my friend that. Like, no, yeah, it is a legitimate thing to be very, very transparent about.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Yeah, and asking doesn't put the thought into somebody's head, it can just open up a door to somebody who may be terrified that that's something that they're feeling, you know. Like, and and again, it's creating that safe space to say, like, hey, you feeling that? Because that's not abnormal. Yeah, like that's not abnormal.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

That's what I think there's the spectrum of what people experience, but I do think people never want to feel like they're again, I'm broken, there's something wrong with me. I watched my friends go through this, they didn't look like this or they didn't feel like this, so I feel like it's not abnormal, even if I didn't experience it. There's a world of women out there who've had very similar experiences, yeah, and it this is not on you to figure out on your own or whatever. Yeah, so I'm actually gonna jump to a different one um in our little list that we compiled, which because I feel like this one is hard again. I feel like it's like something I need to do better. It is keep checking in, kind of after that like grace period that like everybody's first couple weeks with a new baby, maybe first month, you're getting like, What can I do? and is your family helping you? But I feel like it's kind of the same with grief too. For some reason, these go the same way, so you're there right away when all the excitement's happening, and you're offering help and you're saying, What can I do? But then life kind of goes back to normal, and it's very easy to be like, Yeah, yeah, they seem like they're you know doing it the way you know, like they're plugging away. But I feel like postpartum is I'm again not a medical doctor. Please look this up. It's not a few months, I mean it's year, a year or years. I don't even know the exact what they consider postpartum. I know that it's not like three weeks after your baby's born. So that whole time, yeah, you are uh what is the word I'm looking for? Not at risk, but you are susceptible to any of those like hormonal changes, you know, mental, like emotional changes, that is not a very short period. So, as friends, watching somebody go through it, I feel like you have to kind of like okay, this is still this is still really rough for a long time, not just like the first four weeks or whatever. Check on your feet with teenagers. Actually, actually actually bring me some postpartum specifically has a defined time. Yes, the difficulties of mother because I like to check on your weight have the postpartum. I mean this with my baby, right? No, it's it's funny, but I feel like also uh check on them longer. Oh, that's so important. Check on them longer than you think because it doesn't get easier forever.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

It's not like a magic button, like the hormones just poop at a certain point in your body, your hair and your whole life is different.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Whatever it was before you bought a newborn home, you're not the same person by any stretch of the imagination, and it is a lot to process. Yeah, it doesn't just like like you said, like, oh, six months and life is just like swimming along. Usually you are still not sleeping normally, and like who knows what your body's going through.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

So I mean, I feel like at least the first year. I don't know that I mean I feel like I just feel like myself now again, right? But that's you know an exaggeration and and trying to bring a little lightness in. But um, you know, speaking honestly, you probably do not feel like yourself for a year at least. So this is a really important one to keep checking.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Yeah, and it's hard. I do feel like, especially if you see somebody and you're like, oh, they seem like they're in a groove and things are going well. I feel like it doesn't hurt to just check in and say something. And if you do and it opens up a conversation, great. If they go like, yeah, actually, we're really we got our we got our groove, we're doing great. Then it's like, I'm glad I asked. I'm happy for you, but I'm still here if that changes next week or things get really hard again. You go through seasons. We certainly know that where it's like we thought we were sleeping and now we're not sleeping, right? Or we thought we were, you know, eating good and now there's teeth and everybody's just crying all the time. It's always like seasons, absolutely, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

Um, and I'll skip too because I'm seeing that I kind of already uh prefaced this, touched on this a little bit. But you know, speaking of breastfeeding and being careful about the way that you're sharing your story, do not make motherhood a competition. Like, you know, we're we're all on the same team. We are women, we are superheroes, we are capable of anything. Don't make it a competition. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

Somebody else's hard was not less hard than your hard. Yeah. You know what I mean? Sometimes people have like a traumatic birth story, and you're like, oh wow. And I feel like for some reason, well, because we are superheroes, we love to tell those things. Like we love to be like, and then it sounds like, but honestly, if somebody just has the most easy, seamless, oh, it just came out, and then they struggle with postpartum depression. Like there's no comparing. Like, you know what I mean? There's your heart is your heart.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

No, and it can be it can be difficult to um shy away from because it almost becomes like religion or politics, like this is your like you made this, and now like I I remember we had different opinions on a lot of different things, your sleep schedules or sleep training, and you know, and then you just realize like who cares?

SPEAKER_00 33:12

Like, I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do what works for that specific baby that you've created.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

And you support each other and not say, like, well, I designed into just you know, don't, it's not a competition. Yeah, it's it's our mental and physical health, it's the future of our our families and our children, and it's don't take it lightly. Don't make it, don't ever make someone feel like they're not doing a good job because it's different, because it's different from what you think it should be. Like, let's not do that.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

I have a lot of feelings about that too, because I do feel like I'm trying to be careful, but I feel like generationally I think we're getting better. Yes. About not just saying, well, when I was this is how hard it was for us, or something, you're like, that's a shame. Doesn't need to be that hard anymore. You know what I mean? Like, maybe we've come kind of like, but also when you were saying that, it's like nobody in the world has ever given birth to or adopted that baby that you have right in this moment. So as much as their your experiences can benefit you, great. Yeah, as soon as it starts to feel like I don't feel like anything they're saying to me is helpful or I don't really care that like this was easier, harder for them, or whatever, yeah, leave all that uh behind because they're not they never raised your baby.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

Well, and that can yeah, it doesn't matter. That can like generational experience or how you did it, you can think you're being helpful, right? But that can look like competition or judgment in the way of you know, just a specific example. Back when we were born, sudden infant death syndrome was not as prevalent. Okay. Now, based on the knowledge that we unfortunately have, they didn't have that knowledge. So saying, ah, we did that and you were fine can look like that to a new mother who's just trying to do her best. With the information you have. And Lord help me, I had to give birth to two identical child. They weren't identical, but like they both in their mannerisms were identical in the way that especially Ava wanted to find any crevice anywhere she was and bury her face in it, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

Or flip on or something. And I was like, ah, seriously, they didn't tell no what? Like, you're not supposed to do that. I was like, it's not allowed. Purposely tapping right now. So you're like, not allowed. That can look like judgment or competition to a new mom who's just really trying to do her best.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Yes. And I do feel like because this is an area where if you have any lived experiences, you want to be helpful. It's just so hard to make sure that you're keeping the awareness level of like, I'll offer something if it's helpful. To the extent that this feels like I'm saying, like, try it this way, do it this way, and it doesn't track for you, or you're like, nah, my baby's not gonna respond to that, ditch it. Yeah, and just tell me, like, just I'll just listen to you. How hard is it? Just meant to me. I don't need to have any advice or solutions or whatever for you. Exactly. And listen, we'll try to remember all this when our daughters are done. I know I'm trying to say, who do we know that's pregnant? So I can like get into like action being actually like doing the things that I think are important and saying the things. It's been a minute. It has been a minute. Someone get pregnant. I mean, I'm so far past it that when I hear anybody's having a baby, it's so exciting. Yeah, and I'm like, I can't wait to hold that baby, but also I have to like also tell myself, like, you remember all these things that became top of mind not that long ago? Like, you gotta live those things out. You can't just say them because it really is so so scary, but it's literally it's life and death. The difference between being aware, not not that I'm putting that oness on us, like we are not mental health professionals. No, it is not your responsibility to save your friend who is having extreme. What I'm saying is if a conversation or awareness or you calling their husband and saying, like, I'm I'm a little scared, or if that is the difference between somebody's like, you know, a good outcome, a bad outcome, then like it's the least we can do, right? Exactly, and give voice to it because we've like we obviously want to champion like women helping women here. Yes. And there's I think there's a lot of like miss misunderstanding around this particular topic, and I feel like sometimes maybe it was downplayed in the past, like, yeah, normal baby blues, hormonal stuff, like you'll get through it, and it's like I think we know more now to know that this is it's something that needs more attention and awareness.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

Uh absolutely, it's a it's a health crisis, yeah. And I'm so uh grateful that things have changed in the way that we're talking so much more about this, about perimenopause, about all the things that we've all silently been experiencing and for whatever reason feeling like it made us less of a woman or uh Or it was like too taboo to talk about like oh we don't talk about that stuff, or like, oh, we all just suffered in silence.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

You can't talk to your husband about who are we talking to about it. Yeah, he's not gonna relate to you about like this stage of your life or yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

So I'm very excited to be a part of this new space that you know is continuing to grow where women can share and and provide safe spaces to be able to talk about these really important issues. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

And if you just feel like a little bit more like, oh okay, yeah, like I have a few ideas for like how to start a conversation or oh my gosh, my friend just had a baby six months ago. I should still be checking in. Then I feel like exactly we all have to, we could all do a little bit better with that stuff, starting right here. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

So yeah, so I think um that's kind of what we have. I'm sure that there's so much more, and and like I said, we're gonna link it's the Alexis Joy Foundation that we'll be linking that her husband has so lovingly, and I mean he's amazing what he has accomplished in the honor of her life. In her honor, and you can read her story there.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

We don't want to, you know, take any uh I don't I don't even know what to say, but yeah, like certainly we want to drive you there because we're again this was uh personal, like a way that this touched our lives personally, but also he has found a way, her husband has found a way to make a tremendous platform for now getting knowledge out there, getting resources out there. So it's not just interview after interview of oh, this is so sad. It's this is so sad. Here's how it should be different. You know what I mean? Here are some really concrete ways to go find help when you need it. So we'll be sure to link that.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

True pioneer. So we will link that and thank you for you know taking the time to listen. We hope in any way we've given some helpful tips or just uh you know advocate for or advocate for women's health and mental health and creating a space that we can and helping each other because this is something that men couldn't understand if they wanted to.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

They don't, they just don't have the same experience, so we gotta really look out for each other. Yes, we do. Mm-hmm. All right. Well, thank you for being here, everyone. Yeah, thank you, and we'll see you later.