Fly with Brittany Thurman

Brittany is the author of Fly, a Golden Kite Award-winning picture book, Forever and Always, and the middle-grade detective series, Opal Watson: Private Eye. She was born in Louisville, Ky and later studied theater in London, England, and Dramatic Writing at Carnegie Mellon University, before working in youth education at art museums and public libraries. When she’s not writing, you’ll find her discovering the magic of musicals, learning embroidery, tackling home renovation projects, and holding tight to my elders and childhood home. You can out more about her and buy her books here. 

Look for upcoming events at the Louisville Free Public Library here. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Hi Brittany. Thank you so much for being here today. I'm really, really excited to talk to you and just feeling really happy that you agreed to come on.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Yeah, thanks so much for having me, for inviting me, and I am excited to talk to you.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Okay, well, I'm gonna introduce you via your bio to our listeners. Brittany is the author of Fly, a Golden Kite award-winning picture book, Forever and Always, in the middle grade detective series Opal Watson Private Eye. She was born in Louisville, Kentucky, and later studied theater in London, England, and dramatic writing at Carnegie Mellon University before working youth education at art museums and public libraries. When she's not writing, you'll find her discovering the magic of musicals, learning embroidery, tackling home reservation projects, and holding tight to her elders and childhood home. So welcome and thank you again. I'll just give everyone a little background. I was at the Louisville Book Festival the same year. I think you've been a couple of years, but it was a few years back when you were there. And I got to meet you in person. And I had already known about your book, Fly, which was is a children's book. And my daughter is likes the book. And you had come to her school to talk. And so it kind of felt like it was a whirlwind of a time for you, I know, when that book came out. So why don't you why don't you just talk about how you got into writing and what writing that book was like? And was that your first book?

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Yeah, so Fly was my first book. So Fly came out in 2022, and it was supposed to come out in 2020, but of course, things life happened and that didn't work out. I actually wrote the book in 2018. 2018 was when the book was acquired. I remember so I used to work at the library. I was living in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I was working at a library as a children's librarian, and I was reading the kids across Pittsburgh. And as I was reading to them, I kind of like got this knack for page terms and just really how to capture a child's attention. And so I remember that one day on my lunch break, I went outside to the park that was like right in front of the library, and I wrote a poem. At the time, Fly was called You Girl. And it was a poem about this girl named Africa who wants to recognize, she wants people around her to recognize that they are capable of so many things. And when I wrote this poem, I thought that I hit gold and I would show share this with any editor or agent, and automatically they would like publish it. I had these very like, I don't know, I just had these very lofty ideas. And so what I did was I would go to conferences. I went to SCBWI, the Society of Children's Books Writers and Illustrators. And at these conferences, they would have editors around a round table. And so I would share my work, and then the editors would comment. And when I shared my work, when I shared this poem, their response was, this isn't ready. This can't be published. And so I realized there was a lot of work I needed to do. I develop it from a poem to prose. And I gave my character this desire, this want to double dutch. And within the story, she's still she recognizes within herself that she she's capable of achieving her goal of double dodge through just who she is. Like she can ask the people around her, but within her, she she goes for she doesn't necessarily have this fear of what will happen if I do this. And I really wanted kids to recognize that we are capable of so much. And the goal is to always put one foot in front of the other. And as a child, I wish that I was like Africa and I wish that I wasn't so afraid to do the things I wanted to do. I was afraid of everything as a kid. Sometimes I was like afraid to walk out my own front door. I was just a scared child. And so with Fly, I just want kids to know like whatever that thing is, just put one foot in front of the other and see where that takes you.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Wow, that's such a great story. And the book is very inspiring for sure. If anybody hasn't read it or hasn't gotten it for their child, was the original poem. This is such a great story. And I love anyone listening who is in the writing process right now who thinks, like, I think we kind of go back and forth between this is the most amazing thing I've ever written. I wouldn't show this to my dog. So when you wrote the poem, was it about double dough? Or was did that come later?

SPEAKER_00 5:13

I don't think so. I don't think so. It was, it had really the essence of who Africa is. But no, I don't think it was about double dough at all. That's something that's something that I incorporated later when my editor was saying, give her this want or this desire. And I remembered, I like to go back to my own childhood with my stories. And so I remembered as a kid, I loved jump rope, but I was really afraid of double dutch. And I was really afraid of what people would think of me if I tried to do this thing that I was afraid of and and I failed. I was nervous about would they laugh at me, would they stop being my friend? So I think that's how double dutch came in. For most stories with me, I kind of start with the character first. Um, so I had Africa's like essence in this poem with Forever and Always. Olivia, her voice came to me. And so that's how that story began. So I think my stories typically start with the character and then then I add the rest.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

That's great. So I love that you went to these conferences. I think that's such a good idea, and that you were able to get feedback right away. Did you feel discouraged when they were like, This isn't ready? What was it like to get that first blow?

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Yeah, I think it was an eye-opener. I'm around, so it was myself and maybe like eight other authors, one editor. And it seemed like to me, I felt like everyone else understood what you were supposed to do when it came to writing a picture book or writing a story. And I kind of felt like I'm reading the kids all the time. I thought that I understood what it was that the story needed. So I think in a way, I felt this little like hint of like dis I felt discouraged a tiny bit. But I'm always, I think that whenever someone says I can't do something, I'm it push me to just do it. So I think that that was really like my motivation. Like an editor said they don't want it. Okay, what can I do to get this to a place where someone can't say those words?

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Yeah, that's a great motivate, internal motivation. And I I do think a lot of people when they hear that, especially when they've written something that they think is so good, they present it and then they shut down. Like when they hear that, they're like, I've already worked so hard on this, like I couldn't possibly do more. And I I think that's is why it's so important to just like prepare for maybe those those rejections early on because they are information.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Yes, yeah, it is so and also I just so to anyone listening who, for instance, is trying to find an agent or editor, the rejections don't stop. And so this is a constant process that I'm always in. So I can write a manuscript. I've worked on worked on manuscripts for months, sent them to my editor, and they've rejected it. And Fly was a success, but there are many manuscripts that I have like let go because I felt so down through thinking that that this story would be published and it is still collecting dust. So I'm trying, I'm always trying to like push myself through the rejection and through not being discouraged. And I think it's a lot easier said than done. Yeah, but I also yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Oh, I just I think that I always go back to fly to kind of ground me. I always go back to okay, this is a story about perseverance, and I need to apply that to myself.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

I love that. Yeah, yeah. And it is something that's easier when you I think have the mindset of like this is gonna be the process. It's not particular to me personally. This isn't something that I'm not flawed as a human, which is a lot easier to do if you can separate yourself from the work a little bit, but it is just so personal. And writing, you sit behind a computer, usually alone, pouring your heart out onto the page, and then to have someone just be like, Oh, I don't like it. I just I just got a rejection yesterday. I always save, I take a screenshot of my rejections um to to like save them up and to like remind myself like it's okay. I got one yesterday while I was I was writing actually as a passenger and I checked my email and it was like it was kind, but it was like basically you're not, you weren't chosen. It's always uh a little bit hard to hear, like you weren't picked. So it's kind of like if you're the kid who doesn't get picked on the for the for the sporting event or when you get left out of something, it's just an innate in us to feel that.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

But you did get picked eventually, which is really cool. And you've been able to go on from fly and write a lot of books. Um tell me how you transitioned to like the middle grade stories.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Yeah, so I think that my path to middle grade is really different from everyone else's. I write picture books, and while I was writing picture books, I was writing a middle grade novel, but it wasn't, it didn't amount to anything. Um, but one day, this was maybe about 10 years ago, I was looking through. Um, I'm a part of a lot of Facebook groups for writers, and one I think at the time was Kitlet Alliance. I think it's still up now, but they had basically a call for writers to submit to this idea at the time for a book about a group of kids who were on Broadway. I had like a sample that I could go off of. Then I had from that sample, I had to create like my own little scene. And I submitted my scene because I have a background in theater. I went to uh Carnegie Mellon for dramatic writing, and then before that, I went to Carn Kingston University in London for theater. And so I love theater, I love musicals, and so I felt like okay, I want to apply what I know to this idea. And and so eventually I heard back, I wasn't selected for to write that book. Someone else was, but then about a couple of years later, they reached out to me and said, we want you to work on the second book. The book was Fearless with Mandy Gonzalez. So Mandy is an actress. She is she was in Hamilton, she was in in the heights, and and I said yes to working on the second book of Fearless, which follows a group of theater kids who are on this in this Broadway production, and they have their own little adventures and they own a little mishaps. But the theme throughout all the stories is that it's it's okay to be afraid, but to do it anyway, and to kind of push through that fear. And so I worked on that book with Mandy, so Fearless Boulevard of Dreams. And so that was really my introduction to middle grade. I never wrote a middle grade book before Fearless Boulevard of Dreams. I felt really honored that they selected me to co-write this book without me having written middle grade prior to that. Then from there, they asked me to write the fourth book in the series, too. So I think that what it was great for me to be able to apply my knowledge, but then also to learn about Broadway. Never I talk about fearless, I always say, like, I can't sing actor dance. Like I love theater, but I can never be on Broadway. So this was like my chance to kind of step my foot through that door a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

That is so cool. I I love hearing that that it was able like that writing brought you back to something that you love so much, even in a different like area. What was it like co-writing with with Mandy?

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Yeah, it was really interesting. So we would connect. Sometimes we have like Zooms early in the mornings, and she would, I would ask her particular questions about Broadway, and as it related to what the kids were going through within the book, she we would have like this back and forth. Then she would also, it was just like this kind of just like a working relationship, just our ideas bouncing off each other and then seeing what we each come up with. So yeah, it was really, it was really good.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Yeah, that's I think gotta be a different and cool way to write because a lot of times writing is so lonely. So it's that would be cool to be able to bounce ideas off of someone.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Yeah, it was. And it was really good to hear, like you're not waiting for your editor to give you that feedback or those thoughts, like you you get that from each other. So that was that was nice too.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Yeah. What about like I guess I do a lot of ghostwriting, and so sometimes the length of the book or the amount of words that I'm supposed to do feels daunting. So was it daunting to go from a children's book with just a lot of depth but in fewer words to writing something that's however eight or nine or ten chapters long?

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Yeah. I don't think so. What actually it's the reverse. So middle grade, I feel like I have so much that I can explore. There's so much space and so much that I could put on the page. But picture books I'm confined to 500 words, which is super hard. Yeah. So I think it was really the opposite. I felt free. I felt like I could, I could just uh put this character down and his life throughout the books. There's just so much that you can incorporate, but with the picture book, it's like you're so limited.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Yeah, that makes sense.

unknown 14:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Yeah. Can you tell us about the award? How did the how did that come about and what was that like?

SPEAKER_00 14:43

So SCBWI, Society for Children's Books, Writers and Illustrators, they have awards that they give each year. One of them is the Golden Kite Award. And you can get this award through different components of like of literature. So it can be for picture book illustration, it can be for picture book text, it can be for middle grade. And I had no idea that I was even submitted for this award. I just looked in my inbox one day and they said, hey, like you've been nominated. And I thought, okay, that's cool. And and so prior to the award ceremony, so this was all on Zoom, but prior to it, they said, Oh, prepare a speech just in case. And I honestly didn't even intend to make a speech. I didn't think that I would be selected. Fly was so I think that with publishing, the book comes out, and then you have that buzz initially. So when Fly came out, there was a lot of talk about it, a lot of buzz. I did school visits, I did library visits, and then slowly those things quieted down and I heard like nothing. And so I didn't feel like Fly was reaching anyone unless I went to like a school event and someone said, Hey, I love Fly, that was the only way that I was getting some feedback. And so I had no idea that Fly was nominated. I didn't even know, I didn't think that people read Fly. And but so when they said prepare a speech, initially I wasn't going to, but that morning I woke up and I said, You know what? Let me just prepare a speech just in case. And I'm glad that I did. So we're doing the award ceremony, and then they have my book up, they have another person's book up, and then it's just my book. And I realized, oh my gosh, like Fly won this award, and I kind of have it in the background. It's actually so it is a it's a kid holding a kite.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

That's super cute. I love it. Yeah, golden. Yeah, that's really cute.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Yeah, and so I don't know, it's just really it, it was one of those moments where I recognized that books do reach further than what we the authors think. And I really had to get it out of my mind that my book wasn't going anywhere. It's out there, people are reading it, people are are receiving what they need to receive from the story. But like you said earlier, like writing can be very lonely. You're sitting at your desk every day, just yourself. You can sometimes you just think that that that nothing else is happening.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Yeah, that's a great story. And congratulations, because that is really cool. And I know that every writer wants to know like, is this good enough? You know, is this good? And even, you know, I like hearing that after even after you're published, and like, of course, I think this is how it is with so many authors, because you know, I can't wait to order a book and I order it and I read it and I tell my friends about it, but that information doesn't always make it back to the author. And so that's such a good point of like, especially if like I forget to write a review or if we don't reach out. And so I think the the general public has this idea that authors just walk around just feeling so successful all the time and like they've arrived and made it. When really you're you still question yourself, just like in any other job, if you're doing good enough. And so I'm really glad that you got an award, something to say, like, hey, this is good, and it would help you change your mindset.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I like, yeah, I'm I am too. Like, I don't know what my mindset would be if I didn't win. And I hope that if I hadn't won, that I would still be writing and that I still would have persevered and pushed through. But yeah, it was definitely an honor.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Yeah, for sure. So tell us about hang on now, I forgot. I know her name is Opal, but I can't remember the exact Opal Watson. Yes. Tell us about Opal Watson Private Eye. I'm loving this.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Yeah. So Opal Watson is a 12-year-old kid who lives in Chicago. My favorite, I love Chicago, my favorite city. And she is also a detective. So she goes around her community and she solves mysteries, some small mysteries, others larger. In the latest book, Opal Watson, A Case Most Foul, she is solving this mystery of endangered birds. Opal Watson is also an adaptation of the podcast by the same name, but within the books, you will find a completely different story.

unknown 19:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Opal is supported by her parents, her grandmother who lives in New Orleans, her cousin Frank, and just her group of friends. There's various themes throughout the book. So beyond her solving mysteries and piecing together a case, she also has retinitis pigmentosa, which is a degenerative eye disease, where she has difficulty seeing out of the periphery of her vision. At the time that the book is set, her vision is stable. She still needs assistance. So she still at times uses her cane to navigate the world around her. And that is also to prepare her for if her vision changes and if her sight, if if the blurriness within her eyesight gets worse. Opal also is I think that she's a kid that I wish that I was when I was a child. So she's curious. I was curious, but I wasn't necessarily brave enough to go out there and just do what I wanted to do. But so in the first book, she is solving this mystery of strange sounds occurring within her apartment building. And these sounds lead to a secret room, which leads to Opal discovering something that could help save her building from being taken over by developers. And the second book, Opal Watson, the case most foul, she is dealing with finding a bird, a lost bird for a friend, and discovering that this bird is endangered. But then she's also tackling this issue of she was formerly bullied in the past, but her the person who bullied her has changed. And so she is trying to see if this person really has trained, changed, and if she can trust him to help her with the case.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Okay. This is great. And like I love how I love how empowered you're she is. She sounds to be. And I think what I'm hearing, something that I'm loving that you're saying, because I work with a lot of people who write mostly personal narrative, and that's that's what I've written too. And I've always kind of thought like I could never write any fiction because I've, you know, I've kind of I've kind of gotten so used to just writing these like personal essays and that that kind of thing. Um, but what I'm hearing you say is instead of writing about who you were, you're writing about what you wish you would have had or how you wish that you would have felt. And I think that that to me sounds very appealing. Like that there's a way to incorporate, like, it's still something deep inside of you. It's not something that you just grasp out of out of nowhere, but it's something that that came through from something that you desired. And I think that's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Yeah. Yeah. I think that like as a kid, I mean, there were so many things that I wanted to do, so much that I wanted to explore. I think that also, I think that's why I'm a writer today. So as a child, I wanted to do so much that I couldn't make up my mind, but I realized that if I write, I can kind of be anybody. And so that's kind of like where that came from. But yeah, I do kind of with many of my books, I think I incorporate who elements of who I was, but then also. Who I could have been. I guess if that makes sense. So yeah, like I don't necessarily think that I wanted to be a detective as a kid, but also I was curious. I was asking a lot of questions. And Opal kind of takes that a step further.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. Tell me, I noticed that when I look at your website and just like when I was reading things about you, you talk about your roots and your grandmother. And so how is that important to you? And does that create any kind of motivation or drive to continue doing what you're doing?

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Yeah, absolutely. I think that without my grandmother, without my elders, I probably would not be writing. I'm not sure what I would be doing. But they have always encouraged me to be myself. As a kid, I was very reserved. I don't like to use the word shy. I was very reserved. I just, I like to just be within my own head and just think of these stories, these ideas. And my elders, my grandmother, she never stopped me from doing that. And so when I said I wanted to write, when actually, so in undergrad, before undergrad, when I said I wanted to study abroad for theater, she didn't say no. She told me to go for it for grad school. When I said I wanted to go to Carnegie Mellon for dramatic writing, she didn't say no. She told me to go for it. And to this day, when it comes to things that I do, for instance, I do a lot of resident residencies, which means that I'm leaving home. And here in Louisville, I take care of my grandmother. And so when I have to leave, she doesn't tell me that I need to stay. She tells me go. Like she doesn't want me to miss out on an opportunity. And I feel so thankful that I have their support. And I know that a lot of people don't have that. And so it feels like I have, I'm just standing on their shoulders. I have this quote that's on my computer that I look at before I turn my computer on. And it basically says that like I'm standing on the shoulders of the people who came before me. And I know that there was a lot that they couldn't do for many reasons as they were growing up. And so I feel like I don't take it lightly that I have this opportunity, this very like, I don't even know if they would have necessarily imagined someone in their family being a full-time author and writing for kids. And this is the career path. But they've given me that ability to do what I desire. And I think that's really special.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

It really is. That's so cool. And I love that you continue to honor that and to use it as motivation, inspiration instead of letting it hold you back. Because I think a lot of times, for whatever reason, elders or community members or your neighbors, anyone, sometimes writing, you feel so sensitive about it, and then you mention it to someone. And the first time you hear like a naysayer or someone be like, Really, you think you can do that? Like, why would you be? I think it can really like deter people immediately, even if they're, I mean, they could be a better author, the best author, but they they don't do it because someone maybe questions questions them or just doesn't give them the support that that they need. I mean, obviously, there's a lot of people who are like, you can't do that, you need to make money or focus on other things. So I do think that it's wonderful that you have that support.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Yeah. Yeah. And I've actually so I've had even kids come up to me during school visits and they'll say, Oh, I want to be a writer. Do you think I can do that? And automatically it's a yes, even if it no matter what it is that they're saying. I want kids to know that you are capable, that you can do it. I think that there and there's so much negative negativity that goes on in the world already. And like, why let someone's dream be diminished just because of our own insecurities? There's there's nothing like Opal likes to say, there's nothing that I cannot do. And I just really believe there's nothing that nothing we cannot do.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Yeah, you're right. That's very inspiring. Thank you for sharing that. So, what is life as an author like, I guess, and how has your life changed in ways that you didn't know just because you're an author now?

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Yeah, I actually I think about this a lot. I like to look at my old pictures, and I think in the past, like I I go by intuition a lot. So I knew that I wanted to do more, but I didn't know how that would happen. But it's so different ways. And I think that it's changed. Like there are some times when nothing is happening and life is very ordinary, life is very quiet, and then everything happens at once. So I'm either at like a conference, a book festival, meeting readers. My goal is to reach as many young readers as possible, and that's what I love to do, and I love to go to school visits. And at the library, I do a lot of work with the Louvre Free Public Library. So I'm either doing like a library event. Recently, I worked with the orchestra to produce a musical version of Fly. And so over the fall, people could see this orchestra performance of Fly. And I was reading the book along with the orchestra playing music. And I think that that's something that I never imagined before being published, even when Fly came out. I did not imagine that any orchestra would pick up this book and make this book into a musical. But I think that the most important thing when it comes to change is that I'm able to reach kids, and that's always my goal. And I'm able to see how my books change them. Even when I think, sometimes I think, like I said earlier, my books aren't doing anything. And then they tell me what the book has done for them recently. My cousin told me that Forever and Always was like a love story to her and her father. And I just I think it really puts in perspective that that this is, I'm doing this for a reason and that it's important work. Yeah. So sometimes things are busy, sometimes things are not. But if they're not, then I'm sitting at my computer working on edits, trying to meet my deadline, hoping I meet my deadline. Publishing is very iffy. So recently, King Win Random House closed the imprint that my next book is out with. And so I'm having to deal with meeting a new editor. And yeah, so just a lot of ups and downs, some good, some not so good, but I'm always trying to push forward.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Yeah, I love that the orchestra did that. That is such a cool thing. And I do feel like Louisville is a very loving city to our authors and talented people. And it's a we support our people, I feel like. So that's very cool that you got to do that. And such a great thing. Like, I just was thinking about I went and saw Jagged Little Pill, which was uh the musical version of Elena Smorsett's album. It was written a long time ago. But it was cool how her words then turned into like this play, and how she was able to like recreate her thing into something else that then reached more people. And so it's like there's just so many opportunities and so many things that can come from your book that aren't necessarily just someone sitting down and reading it. And I think that people, when they start to open their mind to that a little bit more, they can start to dream a little bit bigger and really lean into it as being important. Like you said, like it is just I mean, so many books have brought me comfort, both like books that helped me like literally learn how to do something so that I could be better at something, but also just books where I was felt seen and heard just by watching their story. I felt like my my own story was reflected. And that's just so important for connection. And so I love that that you're experiencing that and that that's happening. And then also just to note that publishing is so tricky, and and so I'm glad that you're continuing to push through because you never know, you're not really in full control all the time, and so you can only do what you can do, and then you have to kind of surrender, I guess, to what comes.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Yes. Yeah, it's definitely been a learning experience, and whether it's a rejection or dealing with like a publisher, I'm always learning something new, learning new ways to like cope, I guess, and pushing through. I'm always keeping kids in mind at the end of the day.

unknown 31:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

That's great. That's great. Well, this has been awesome, and I'm just so thankful to be talking to you. And I'm really thankful that you made your way into the world so that we could read your words. And I can't wait to get my daughter on board with Opal Watson because she's a 12-year-old, and so I think she can she can relate. And so I love this, and I'm really excited for the next book that you have coming out. And I'll definitely share for our read for our listeners, anyone, anything else that you have coming on your website. But is there anything else coming up that any events that you want to tell people about?

SPEAKER_00 32:04

So things are this is like one of those quiet moments, so things are really quiet. I really don't have anything going on. Things tend to pop up. I do, I am doing a school visit in Texas in the week. It's called Reading Rock Stars. So it's through the Texas Book Festival. But other than that, this summer, I think in July, I have a series of workshops with the Louvre Free Public Library. And so those will be a fly jump and fly story time where we read fly and we jump rope and we do it with a craft too. I also have a story time where we are creating our own books. So if you look on the Louisville Free Public Library website, they should have the dates. I don't know them off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

Okay. I'll I'll definitely link those. I'm a lover of the Louisville Free Public Library. It's a wonderful place, and they're always doing fun things like this. And I'm so glad that you're gonna be a part of that. And people will how cool that kids will get to come and read from you, listen to you read, yeah, see the book and jump rope. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Yes, it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Yes. Well, thank you again so much. This has been a great conversation, and I know that a lot of the listeners have questions about children's books. So so many people ask me, and it's just not an area that I can help people with, but I will send them to this podcast and let them know that you're out there if they have any pressing questions that you might be able to answer for them.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Yeah, I would love to answer and help in any way. I feel like people have helped me along the way, and so I want to do the same.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Awesome. Well, again, thank you. And I look forward to seeing you maybe at the Louisville Book Festival when it comes around next year or other festivals around town. So um, we'll talk soon.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Thank you.