SOCIAL STUDIES: Ruth Ann Moss

Welcome to The Community Optimist! In our first ever "Social Studies" interview, I sit down with Ruth Ann Moss — a Birmingham mom, serial host, and local leader who has built a genuinely connected life with a lot of intention through some major life changes. After divorce and new motherhood reshaped her world, Ruth Ann got creative about finding that "full table" feeling. In this conversation, we talk about how she hosts often without it taking over her life, what she learned from trying to have someone over for dinner every single week, and why she's decided to stop keeping score in friendships. Plus — why Facebook Marketplace is giving her hope right now. Get ready to feel inspired by Ruth Ann's warmth, wisdom, and intention when it comes to finding connection in today's world. 

https://thegatheringlab.substack.com/p/social-studies-ruth-ann-moss

Social Studies is a recurring series on The Community Optimist where we pull back the curtain on real people's social lives - the ways they gather, the people who matter to them, and what the heck they do on a Saturday night - to help us feel more hopeful about the future of how we connect. 

Want to be part of the conversation? Send us a voice memo with a question you're sitting with, something you're navigating in your social life, or a win you want to share — and yours might just show up in a future episode. Reach us at janet@thegatheringlab.com.

For profiles, questions, and more — find us on Substack at thegatheringlab.substack.com

Learn more about Janet's work at The Gathering Lab: thegatheringlab.com

For Social Studies profiles, questions, and more — find us on Substack at thegatheringlab.substack.com

Want to be part of the conversation? Send us a voice memo with a question you're sitting with, something you're navigating in your social life, or a win you want to share — and yours might just show up in a future episode. Reach us at janet@thegatheringlab.com.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

What are we all doing on Saturday nights? Why is it so hard to move past the surface level with each other? And what does building real friendship and community look like in our busy, disconnected world? I'm Janet King, and this is The Community Optimist, where we explore how to build deeper connection in the modern world with a lot of curiosity and a lot of optimism. Welcome. Hey y'all, welcome to this week's episode of The Community Optimist. Today's episode is a little bit different. I'm trying something new because there is one thing I keep noticing in myself and in others, the work I do at the Gathing Lab, is that, you know, in this time of all of us being so busy and on different rhythms and schedules, we feel it feels like we have almost no idea what each other is doing in our social lives. And at least I assume that everyone has this more figured out than I do, or their weekends are fuller, or their friendships, they see their friends more often than I do, and somehow their social lives are easier. And so I wanted to start asking people, is that true? And people from all different kinds of backgrounds and life stages. And so over the next few weeks, you'll see some interviews. I'm calling them social studies, right? So nerdy, where I ask real people about what connection actually looks like in their lives right now. And we pull back that curtain. So my first guest is someone I really love and admire. She is a dear friend of mine, Ruth Ann. And she's a Birmingham mom, serial host, and someone who has built a genuinely full and connected life with a lot of intention through some real life changes. I think you're going to recognize a lot of yourself in her and also appreciate her her wisdom and warmth that she obviously gives to those around her. And I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. Welcome, Ruth Ann. I am so glad you are here doing this with me today. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. I am excited to have you on and look under the hood a bit of your social life for a few reasons. Well, first, you are a dear friend of mine. You're someone I love and admire in general and always imparting wisdom that I soak up. But when it comes to your social life, I have loved watching you be really intentional about how you're building a connected life in our community with those around you. And I want to get really curious to hear a little more about how that actually works and um looks for you. And then the other reason is, you know, we call you our synthesizer. You are so good. I feel like it's soaking up the best of the internet, if you will, the sub stacks, all the wisdom out there, out there, and distilling it down into like bite-sized, knowledgeable things for us. So I'm sure today will be loaded with nuggets of wisdom that you've absorbed as well.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Well, I'm really excited to talk. You know, uh, I've had the privilege of getting to be a rail and since the Gathering Lab first started. And I feel like I've learned so many things from you watching the Gathering Lab grow and then through the podcast that I've incorporated into my social life. So excited to talk.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Um, okay, well, let's start off with uh an easy one. What did you do last Saturday night?

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Last Saturday night, I went on a date with my boyfriend. We went to an Italian restaurant in Birmingham uh called Bottega, and we did what we almost always do, which is show up without a reservation and try to sit at the bar, which is almost always successful. And I feel like usually leads to some like fun organic interactions, whether it's with folks working at the restaurant or other patrons that you might not have if you've sat at a table.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

It was so bold. My husband loves sitting at the bar for that exact reason, getting to know the bartender, those around you. Did y'all make chit-chat this time around?

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Uh yeah, we chit-chatted a little bit with the couple that was very kindly uh seating their seats over to us. Um, so that was fun. And then we also ran into friends who were there waiting on a table. And so kind of got a spontaneous catch-up with them while we were waiting, which was fun.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

I love it. And is that a typical Saturday night for you? Walk me through what a Saturday might look like in your life.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Yeah. So I think one thing that makes my social life kind of unique is that I'm divorced and I share custody of a five-year-old. And so I kind of have these uh all-on solo parenting weekends where I'm generally with my child for the majority of the day all weekend, and then occasionally have these weekends where she's not with me and I'm kind of flashing back to my, you know, 27-year-old uh childless self. So uh it's less that I have a typical Saturday night and more that I'm typically either all in all in one end or the other.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Um, and when you think about your social life and kind of the stage you're in now and the life changes you've gone through, what matters to you? What has felt important to you as you've built a social life for for who you are today?

SPEAKER_00 5:19

So there are two things that I think matter to me. And they might feel like they're in contradiction, but I don't think that they are. Uh, and one of those is really deep, meaningful personal connection, either one-on-one or in um really small groups. It's important to me to have friends and colleagues that I really feel like I can share what's going on in my brain, in my life, and where I can be a place for them to do the same conversations that go, you know, I I always think about the um scene in the Barbie movie where everybody's dancing at the dance party, and then she's like, So does anybody ever think about dying? And I'm like absolutely here for all of the does anybody ever think about dying conversations? And it's important to me to have those kinds of relationships um versus relationships that maybe only center on sharing uh activities or kids or things like that in common. Um, but then the other thing that comes up for me is really important is that it's important to me that my social life feel full. And when I say full, I don't actually mean, you know, we're scheduled every minute of the weekend or we're always at a party. But I think about the like crowded table or crowded house feeling. Um, and I'm the oldest of five kids. And so I grew up in a crowded table house. And that I think very much as an adult is something that I'm always still seeking, particularly as the parent of an only child. And so anytime my house feels full, or I'm at typically usually like a casual gathering where people are really connected. Maybe we're all hanging out at the park or at a friend's house, and the kids are all running around the backyard and the adults are like making plates in the kitchen. That's a really good feeling for me and something that I'm always looking for in my social life.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

I love that. And I can resonate on a few levels. I also grew up in a busy, full home, and I think we're both, we both thrive in those casual familial settings because it feels so good, I feel like, to what we experience growing up. Um, the more jokes, the more interruptions, the more kind of chaos, the better is how I how I feel. So I can picture that all too well. And so with those two priorities in mind, what are there moves that come to mind that you have made to make those happen in your life?

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Um, I think in terms of meaningful connection, there is like an element sometimes of going first that has to happen. And I've been both the recipient of that and I think the driver of that, where either that's, you know, honoring a way that somebody has shared vulnerably with me in a relationship, my meeting that with both affirmation and my own sharing, or being like that first person to tiptoe out there and share something and then evaluate how that's processed or metabolized in the relationship. And so I think that's been um a big thing. And then also I find that a lot of times things like that happen one-on-one before they happen in groups. So a lot of times there's been someone that I might have sparked with at a party or through a work event that I've been intentional to follow up and say, hey, can we get coffee or can we go on a walk and try to build and deepen that relationship in that one-on-one context? Um, and then I think in terms of my life feeling full, the biggest thing that's led to that is just we we host a lot. And sometimes that's most of the time that is incredibly like low stakes, casual hosting. Like it's pizza, it's breakfast food on a Sunday morning. Um, it's people are welcome to bring their kids, their partner, whoever's in town. Um, but something I think about the casual nature of being in people's homes leads to that really informal, casual, full, connected kind of feeling. I've never felt that feeling at a restaurant. And so I think that there's something about like the intimacy of being in someone else's home or having people in your home that does that. And so I've uh spent a lot of time and like ran the dishwasher a lot of times in service of that goal.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Are you someone who can actually keep it casual? Like, how have you, how has that journey been for you when hosting? You have, I know a young kid and um, and you do it, you I see you host very often. So I imagine you have found ways to do it that work for you. What what works? How do you do that?

SPEAKER_00 10:14

I think one thing that helps is trying to really think about the point of the gathering. And one reason why like keeping it casual can be a challenge for me is that separately I also really love to cook and to bake and to host. Uh, I'm in a cookbook club and just I love all those kinds of things. And so there's like a part of why don't you all come over and I'm gonna order pizza from Domino's and we're gonna eat on paper plates and we're gonna set out a bowl of like cutie oranges that feels deeply painful to me because it's so much nicer to eat on like real dishes and things like that. And so I think I just have to keep asking myself, why am I doing this? And there are a few times a year where the answer to why am I doing this is really to provide this like beautiful, almost hopefully kind of artistic experience for myself and for people that I love. Um, I host a party every year for a group of women, and a lot of times I use real dishes for that because I think there's something so nice about like, you know, you've run ragged all day, you've taken care of your kids, you come to a party where there's like delicious food that you like and pretty serving dishes, and you're eating with a real fork on a real plate. Um, but whenever I'm having a bunch of families over, the point isn't the hosting or the food. The point is really for us to connect, for our kids to play together, for us to be one another's respite at the end of a long week. And so I try to just ask myself, like, what's the point here? And if it's for Cokebook Club, the point is actually that the food is good and we eat on real plates, or if it's a party for my girlfriends, the point might be that people can really luxuriate at the end of the day, but that's not the point when it's 20 people and 10 kids under eight.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

I love that. I've been thinking a lot about, you know, just how the modern world, we are all so busy and pulled in a million different directions. And to the extent that hosting, I think in the past has been this huge effort, labor of love, and perfectly kind of curating the meal and cooking and all the cleaning. And a lot of us are a place where that's just not realistic. And I think asking yourself that question of what is the point and making sure that that isn't the barrier to connection um is so is so smart. Um, I really think that's a great way to start framing that ask of yourself when you're hosting.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Yeah. My uh 23-year-old self, uh, whenever I got married, got a couple of sets of really nice china. And I ended up exchanging them for a Dutch oven that you can cook, you know, like soups or like braised meats or whatever. And I remember really at like 23, kind of grappling with like, what kind of hostess am I gonna be? Like, do I need this china? Am I gonna have all of these like, you know, seated, elegant dinners? And I remember even then kind of thinking, if I am serving somebody a homemade meal in my house on regular dishes, and they feel offended that I didn't serve them on China, we probably weren't meant to be to begin with. And so there's something you shared with me, something the other day, just kind of about that idea of uh showing up in authenticity, being a magnet to the right kind of people finding you. And that's what I try to remind myself whenever I think, oh my gosh, my daughter's room is kind of a wreck, or we're eating on paper plates. It's like that's actually the kind of people that I want to find me, and vice versa, are the people that are not bothered at all that my daughter's room's messy and that are just so delighted to be breaking bread with other people that they're not worried about what kind of plate they're eating on.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Yes, and I have to say, too, as a you know, I I I love to host as well, and I have a high bar with that. And um, you know, I I'm in a messy season myself with young kids and life being really busy. And it's so refreshing to go to someone else's house and see it be messy, you know, like it is to drop the illusion that we are all living in these perfectly peak clean homes um all the time. And so it's actually, I think, such a vulnerable act that brings closeness. Not that, you know, I think we all have like a minimum viable standard here that we want to reach, but um, I can tell as your your friend, I'm like, oh wow, Ruth and sometimes oldest room is messy too. That's great to know. Um, so I I think there is something really uh like an edge there for us when hosting in this time that is gonna require a little more authenticity and finding the people who can meet you there. And that actually can be really special.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Yes, absolutely. And I think without judgment too, you know, there are other people at other life stages that really want to cook elaborate dinners and ethemically clean homes. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Like in another stage of life that might be really important to me, those just aren't necessarily my people for right now in this season of my life.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Yes. Understand that. So, what are some ways that your social life looks different than it did maybe five years ago?

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Yeah, you know, in the last five years, or I guess really in the last six years, I both had a child and got divorced, both of which I think can be uh real catalyst for change in anyone's social life, right? Um and I think for me, I think the child was actually probably a lot more fundamentally shifting to my social life than the divorce, but they certainly both changed things about it. Uh with before, you know, it's like whenever you're working, you look back on college and you think like I had so much free time. What did I do with all of it? Well, and but while you're in college, you felt incredibly busy, or at least I did. And I think similarly, I look back and I'm like, what did I do on the weekend before I had a kid? But it felt very busy and very full whenever I was living in that part of my life. Um, I actually think that having a child has made me even more social, not less social. And I'm really grateful to have a community of people, some of most of whom have kids, some of whom don't, that are all into the idea that we can all just hang out while our kids run around in the backyard or play at the park, versus the idea that we need childcare or a girls' night out for every time that adults are going to spend together. And so I think that my child made my life a lot more inflexible in that I can't just go to dinner on a whim on the average Friday night anymore, but also actually opened up this whole new avenue of much more laid-back connecting that I didn't necessarily have a window on before we were born.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Yeah, I think most people hear, you know, I had a child and would assume that your social life shrunk. Um, and I think there is a tension I've seen, you know, in the gathering lab or in my own life of like how do you navigate life changes with friendships, you know, especially across kids or not kids. So I think it's really refreshing to hear an example of it of this actually making you more social, maybe even more creative about how you weave people into your life that is a little bit more inflexible.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, and I think that, you know, I've read Anton Peterson has some great pieces on what being friends across lines of difference, having kids and not having kids, really requires of both people, both the people that have kids and the people who don't have kids. And I think that's really interesting. Um I think another thing that I guess the way that the divorce shifted my social life or made me think differently. You know, I got married whenever I was 23, was married for almost 10 years. And so most of my foundational, really almost all of my foundational post-college years were as part of a couple. And so it really wasn't until I got divorced that I realized how deeply coupledom and particularly like heteronormative coupledom is embedded through all of these different layers of our social lives. And there's, and I I think I don't think that much, if any of it is ill-intended. I think that there's just this natural human desire to find pairs and matches. Similarly to, you know, if you're going to the park to watch your kid play, you're a lot more likely to invite a fellow parent who has a child to come meet you there because, you know, you and that other parent are going to talk and your children are going to go play together. Everyone has a match. And so it was interesting as somebody who's always been really social and enjoyed so many connections with so many different people to experience some shifts in when I was no longer a part of a couple. I felt like there were some situations where it seemed like it was much less natural for people to include me in things that were historically coupled, right? And I don't think, again, that any of that was ill-intended. I was just all of a sudden like an anomaly or different. I didn't come with a person who was a payer for all of these other people. And at the same time, there have also been so many friends that included me so intentionally during that season of life. I think about a friend who was raised by a single mom that are either my first or second divorced Easter was intentional in including me and my daughter in a gathering with all of these other families. And that was so meaningful to me for so many, for so many reasons. One being that it was really important to me that my divorce not be a reason that my daughter didn't build relationships with other children and other families and have an opportunity to see what a lot of different family structures and romantic relationships can look like. And so it's been a reminder to me whether it's, you know, divorce or childlessness or tons of children or whatever that looks like, to think about who in my life doesn't have a natural fit and where they might be looking for someone to meet them.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

I love that. And I also imagine I think anytime we go through a major life change, we kind of we we are, I think there's stories that come along with it. There's stories we have to let go, and then I think there's stories about whatever the change might be happening to us that we are we have going on in our heads that we probably become present to. Were there stories you've had to work through or ways that you've had to, I don't know, rethink about how you do this on your own, um, given your life changes that you went through, this divorce and being a young new mom. What were some of those stories and how have you navigated those?

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Yeah, uh, I think I think this is true for everyone. But one thing that I think a lot about um as a single mom is just this idea that you can do anything, but you can't do everything. And that helps me remember that I really do believe that there isn't any sort of thing or experience that's ever going to be. Off limits to my daughter or me because of our family structure, right? Like I absolutely think that, not right now while she's five, but a couple of years from now, like I can take her on a 10-day international trip all by myself. I believe that I can navigate her world of extracurriculars, um, whatever that is. But one thing that I tried to do uh last year in 2025 was I decided that I was going to have people over for dinner every single week in 2025. And I think I made it till June, having someone over for dinner, probably 90% of the time, a fully homemade meal every single week. Wow. And in some ways, like it was wonderful. Like it proved to me like I can do anything. It was a very complicated like my daughter goes to school 20, 25 minutes away from the house. I was going to get her, then coming back, trying to get her handled, starting dinner. It was tight. And what I realized after a few months was that I can do this, but it was not serving my family and I in the way that I wanted it to. It was really, really stressful. It wasn't kind of this like full house, stress-free, beautiful, connected experience. It was a lot of me feeling anxious or overwhelmed or tired about the whole thing. And so I ended up uh pulling the plug on that goal halfway through the year. But one thing that I did realize is that well, a clear no. Yes, yes, it was a no. Um but I did realize that having people over for dinner on a weekend or on a week brunch, even better, brunch on a weekend morning, whenever you're not dealing with little kid bedtimes, was a great fit for us. And so we didn't do that every single week, but we did it a lot of weeks. And I'm really excited. Next year my daughter will start kindergarten and our location locus will shift back closer to our house. And so I'm excited to revisit that experiment again in a different life stage. Um, but it's it's hard for me to uh pull the plug on anything, but we had to pull the plug on that one.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

I I love it. I what I love about that is you it sounds obvious to me that you have such a clear vision for what you want your social life to feel like for you and your daughter. And even though you know life has taken different changes, you make you go after that. Like this idea to host people in your home every week is such a you know bold move to make that happen in your life. And like it was an experiment. You were holding it lightly and you were able to say, okay, this has flavors of what I want. And given where my life is right now, like maybe this version of it is easier for me, right? This this version of it suits us better. And so um, I just love that as an example of a way you have gone after to create that feeling you want in your life and also let it evolve to meet where you and your daughter are right now.

unknown 25:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

So you can enjoy, which is ultimately the goal.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Yes, absolutely. I think another thing that I learned from that that could be helpful for people that are looking to connect more, is that there was something about that defined goal around we're gonna have people over for dinner every week that I think made invitations both easier to issue and accept. Whenever I would reach out to someone and say, you know, we one example was we'd moved from our old neighborhood two years ago, and there was a family that we had really enjoyed connecting then and hadn't seen in ages. And it might have seemed a little random just to kind of reach out to them after, you know, two years. We'd stayed in touch some, but not a lot. There's nothing about our daily life that really overlaps. But framing it is we're having people over for dinner every week this year, and we'd love for your family to be one of them. Here are three dates. Do any of those work for you? I think there's something about like humans like to help one another achieve goals. There's almost like a competitive thing there where they felt like, you know, we're helping you achieve this goal. And I got the joy of hosting them in our home. And so I don't think that has to be dinner every week. That could be, you know, I've moved to a new city and I have challenged myself to meet 10 people for coffee in the next three months. Somebody told me that you're such a great person to talk to about X or Y. Would you be open to having coffee? There's something about that that feels, I think, more purposeful than just a random edge.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Yeah, I think you're speaking to also like we've covered a lot in this podcast, just this idea that it won't just happen, like the inertia of life won't just add up to you getting a lot of invitations and vice versa. And that there is reward in kind of taking the step towards something, I don't know, ambitious or creating a container where it can happen. And I do think people these days, with a lot of our structures kind of dissolving, need a little bit more of a container when we are being asked to show up for something socially. Like that doesn't mean everything has to be scripted and have a purpose and all of that, but I do think people are looking for some a little something to hang their hat on when they are receiving an invitation and knowing what to show up for. And so I love this idea of like you created this container of like, I'm I've issued a challenge and I'd love you to help me be part of meeting that challenge. And you're right, it turns it into a collaborative thing. Um, and there gives a little bit more purpose. It also, I imagine, was a great conversation starter. Every time whoever showed up was like, hey, what the heck are you doing? Like, tell me how this is going and who all you've invited and how you're making the meals every week. And so it gives people some soft landing um around the social event, which I think a lot of us are are looking forward to. Absolutely. So shifting gears a little a little bit, um we think I I think a lot about and exploring on this podcast, like, what do our social lives actually look like? Are they do they line up to what we all want and crave? And so a simple question of do you see your friends as often as you'd like to?

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Oh, wait, I'm I'm probably uh I don't know. Um my first thought was I'm a bad person to ask that question because I have a somewhat like insatiable social appetite. I'm like, do we all live together? If the answer is no, then I'm not seeing you all as well.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

You're preaching to the choir. Yes. Um, I do is this how we start a commune?

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Right, right. Yes, yes. It happened right here. Um I think that the answer to that question for me is almost always no. And I also think I see my friends more. Yes, I think I see my friends know more regularly than I ever have since college.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

How did that come about? How does that work?

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Um I think that there are several different reasons for that. One is that I bought a house two blocks away from one of my best friends for a variety of reasons, but primarily because she lived there. And so there was has been like an intentional shift in my life to make proximity to friends or to people I love as a priority. And so I see that friend more formally, probably once a week. And then uh informally, very regularly. I drop things off on her porch, she drops things off on my porch, my kids over there for a little bit, her kids over or over at my house. Um, and then I think some of it too is the frequency. I would say probably six years ago, a lot of my friendships turned over. People that I had been friends with for probably my first five years in Birmingham. Um, some people had moved away. There was kind of like a shift in a prior social group that I was in. And then some new friendships kind of emerged in the year following that. And so I think with uh those newer groups of friends, it's like now almost five years in, we're at a point where our connections are just a lot more organic. And I think about uh, you know, frequency and momentum. You and I've had those conversations about like the momentum, you referenced that on a previous podcast episode, and that really resonated with me. Um, because I think there's this thing, right? When you're just meeting someone and having coffee with them, unless there's some sort of precipitating event, like a um there's a concert that you're both interested in in two weeks, you're not gonna suggest having coffee again the same day the next week, right? There's something about that that like feels odd or feels like you're like moving too fast in friendship. It's like going on a second date with someone and asking them to move in, but the friendship version. But I think that that changes as relationships last longer, become deeper, become more casual, where I think nothing nail with my closest friends of us all going out to dinner, just moms on a Friday night, and then that same Sunday morning having brunch with all of our kids. It just feels like this much more organic rhythm where people are woven into the fabric of my life. So I love that.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Yeah, and I think you're speaking to an important and perhaps inconvenient fact is that we it really just takes a lot of time and mutual vulnerability to build up to something that intimate. Absolutely. And I think a lot of us are craving that. I know for me, I've certainly gone through friendship cycles, and it can feel really hard to be at the beginning of that and like you're doing something wrong because it's not happening instantly. And yet there's often so many good seeds wherever you are, that one day, you know, with that mutual vulnerability, effort, time, become that feeling.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Yes. I think it's almost impossible to skip the beginning, right? The it's just, it's just like, again, not to overuse the analogy, but it's just like dating. It's in it's impossible and in some ways like unwise to go right from swiping on an app to moving in together or two coffees in talking about getting married. Like there's something about that slower cooker and that building that I think is an important part of relationships. And how do you feel about?

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Are you the person, if let's say thinking back to some of these friendships you have now, or if you were to meet someone new, are you the person who takes initiative? Like, how do you think about actually getting that time, those reps in to build something with a friend?

SPEAKER_00 33:03

Yeah, uh I've been thinking a lot about uh this line from a Billy Joel song, um, especially as I'm like getting closer to midlife where he says, uh, you can get what you want or you can just get old. And I I think about that whenever I think about creating the kind of friendships that I want or the kind of social life that I want. And a big part of that for me has been just kind of accepting that I have in somehow like baked into my DNA the uh willingness to initiate. And that's a strength that I can bring to friendships, just like some people bring a strength of phenomenal listening skills or great advice whenever somebody's going through a challenge. And for a lot of years, I got really in my head about, you know, I've invited someone to do something two or three times in a row and they haven't reciprocated. They must just not be into this friendship. Like I should take this as a social signal and back off, or you know, we've invited people over multiple times and they haven't reciprocated. Maybe this means they're not into it. And now I really just don't think that things are that simple. I think that people initiate or don't initiate for a variety of reasons. I think that people uh have people in their homes or don't have people in their homes for a variety of reasons. And what I just try to come back to is when this person and I or this family and my family are together, does the energy feel good and mutual and positive? And if the answer is yes, I'm okay with being the initiator 95% of the time. Um, and then there are other relationships where I'm not the initiator and I'm grateful for the gift that those people come to that bring to that relationship. And I also try not to get overly in my head about, you know, they've asked me to coffee twice. That means I need to ask them to coffee back next week. Um, I think in all of the best partnerships or romantic relationships, there's just a lack of scorekeeping. People aren't keeping up with who did the dishes last or who got 30 minutes more kid-free the past weekend, but are just willing to show up with whatever they have. And so I think that that's been something that's benefited my social life a lot.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

Yeah, I I love that. I hear a lot of acceptance of where people are and not, you know, dropping of ego about it, right? Like you trusting your enjoyment, the energy of the people you're around to keep spending, if you want to, keep spending time with them and kind of let go of the scorekeeping, which I think you're right, can get in the way of something beautiful emerging. I feel like life has a way of, you know, bringing friends in and out of our lives when they're meant to be, right? And there's people that have been warm relationships that, you know, some at some point and then become really close because we're going through something similar or whatever it is. And so to cut people off because they can't fit into a certain mold of, you know, equally reciprocating, you know, all every time, or hosting you like you host them, I think is maybe cutting you off from friendships that can come in and out of your life when they're meant to. Um okay, so we I want to move to some more quick-hitting questions if you're up for it. Let's do it. Okay, what what is the last great party you attended or hosted? And what made it special?

SPEAKER_00 36:43

Uh I mean, there's so many different things that uh come to mind now. Uh my boyfriend who is not interested in sports at all, has hosted a Super Bowl party every year for the last like 15 years. And that was a great party. Uh, I have a friend who recently uh moved to London and used to host just the most like beautiful, glitzy New Year's Eve party at her home. And this year I was so sad that she wasn't here and that that wasn't happening. Like, I feel like I've been lucky to go to so many great parties. But the thing that really comes to mind most recently is something that actually felt really, really ordinary. And you were there too. Uh and a friend had us over for just a very casual Saturday supper at her house. And it was four families, all the kids there, and it was two of the dads' birthdays, and so she had dessert, and we all sang happy birthday to the dads, and the kids had party hats on and were running around. And I think I sent you all a text after and just said, like, we are so lucky. I mean, to be able to be alive and be connected together to bear witness to one another's children growing up. I mean, that is so much richer and deeper and better than like the best, like fanciest gala or gorgeous dinner party. And so there was just something about like the normalcy and like intimacy of that moment that made me feel so lucky and special and connected.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

So beautiful. Do you have next quick hitting question? Do you have a friendship or connection that exists almost entirely in one context, like gym, work, neighbor, and you really value it without it needing to go any deeper or become something much more meaningful in your life? But you get a lot of joy from.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Yeah, that's something that I think is actually one of the biggest parts of my social life that I'm working on right now is fighting the urge to optimize every single relationship. And it's so easy for my like optimizer, achiever brain to tell myself, you know, like you had a great interaction with this person at the coffee shop. You should ask them to do X, or, you know, you've bumped into this person at a party twice now. You need to do X, Y, Z to like level up the relationship. And so lately I've just tried to practice a lot more acceptance and also just realizing I can't have a hundred of these like deep, emotionally connected relationships. And some relationships are different, and there actually isn't a hierarchy there, right? Like they can bring something that's just as beautiful but a lot different to my life. Um, and the first thing that comes to mind are my uh across the street neighbors who are everything that I am sometimes not whenever it comes to like vigilance about the state of uh home knowledge of the trash schedule. And probably every other week they text me to let me know that I've left my garage door open and multiple times have like come over to my house to close it for me because I'm like 25 minutes away downtown and can't make it happen. And they're just the most like lovely people. I um text the male partner that lives there to figure out what day bulk trash comes and he coaches me through that or if it's not running on the holiday. Um and I just so enjoy seeing them out and our communications. They don't necessarily go deeper than that, even though I think that these are the people that I would be like great friends with. Um, but there's been almost like a family feeling of like, I always know they're looking after my house, I'm looking after their house. Things are good.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

I love that so much. Um, and final question: what is one small thing giving you hope about the future of people?

SPEAKER_00 40:54

So I am very hopeful about the future of people. Um and one thing that gives me hope uh for the future of people is actually related to a place where I have made some interesting social connections, which is Facebook Marketplace. And uh yes, those that know me know that I am deep into Facebook Marketplace. If you are listening and you're not familiar with it, it is basically the modern-day Craigslist. People are buying, people are selling. This is everything from like incredibly rare books or valuable vintage furniture to the other day someone had listed a pack of Chick-fil-A sauce for $20. So it just really varies in terms of what is listed on there. But you meet all kinds of people that you would not regularly meet. They always have a story for you about why they're buying your item, or you find out more about the story of this item that you're buying from them. So it's been really a fascinating way to make these little like very like micro-fleeting connections with people. Um, but as much as I like Facebook Marketplace, I am also a relatively busy person and cannot always transact with people in person. So I do a lot of leaving items on my porch for people to pick up, sending them my address and my Venmo, and they pick them up while I'm at work or I'm wherever. And I've been doing this pretty regularly for maybe six years with a variety of different values of item. And I have never once not had someone leave money on under the mat or Venmo me whenever they say they will. And there's something about that that I just think is this beautiful little proof point about how at the end of the day, regardless of like who we are, what our background is, variety of different identity markers, really at the end of the day, people just want to like buy their stuff and go home. And it's been such a neat, just like restoring of my faith in humanity that on this weird anonymous online platform, I can interact with all these strangers and give them my address. And in general, they want to come by whatever random thing it is and want to like complete that transaction together.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

Um it reminds me of Robert Putnam's work in bowling alone and just how a lot of our trust in community government systems actually starts in these little micro, like, can I trust my neighbor? Can I trust the people around me? And what I'm hearing you say is like, this is just a story in trust trust buildings, like remind giving my brain evidence that like people are trustworthy in these micro ways. And um, and that's such a good example of feeling why you feel hopeful about people and the future.

SPEAKER_00 43:53

Yes, indeed.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

Well, thank you, Brittany. I uh this conversation brought me a lot of joy. Has given me a lot to think about. You are so wise and you you host beautifully. So just always admire you there. But I feel like today you've shared a lot of good things that I know will help people as they create their vision for their social life. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

Well, thanks for having me. I hope that anybody listening just knows that I really do believe that creating a mean meaningful social life is one of those things that for everything you put in, you're going to get back tenfold in terms of just the joy and beauty that it adds to your life. So for anybody who's listening and is like, oh, you know, this is so hard, or uh it just doesn't feel worth it, uh, I've been there and I really do believe that it is.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

Thanks, Ruvan. Thanks for listening today. This podcast is a conversation, and I want you in it. If you have a question about your social life, something you're navigating in this particular life stage, or even a small win you want to share, record me a voice note and send it to Janet at thathering lab.com. I read every one, and yours just might show up on a future episode. And if you want to go deeper, find us on Substack at thegatheringlab.substack.com for profiles, articles, questions, and more. Thanks for being here. See you next time on The Community Optimist.