S2 EP6. Idolatry In Dating

Part 2 of our dating series focuses on emotional boundaries and idolatry in relationships. We talk about fantasizing, rushing intimacy, and the subtle ways someone can become your source instead of God. A practical and honest conversation about guarding your heart wisely while dating. 

Inside Episode 6:

✔️ The sneaky traps of idolatry
✔️ Fantasizing and rushing emotional intimacy
✔️ Why boundaries still matter even when you’re serious
✔️ Putting God first in a relationship
✔️ Managing expectations and pacing
✔️ Practical ways to check your heart while dating

If you’ve ever felt yourself getting swept up in a relationship or placing too much hope in someone too quickly — this conversation will help you slow down, refocus, and date with wisdom.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Guys, you know what we don't talk about enough? What don't we talk about enough? I know this is crazy to say, but dating. Like, we never talk about dating. Especially Christian dating. Right? Like, Christians don't talk about dating. I don't think I've ever seen a podcast episode. Not one. Yeah. Like, especially Christian women?

SPEAKER_01 0:19

No.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

Why are we not talking about dating? All right, guys. Welcome back to part two of our dating in boundaries episode. Today we're gonna be talking about idolatry and fantasizing in your relationships, which is huge, especially for women. Don't even try and lie and say you don't do it. Because we all do it. Um and you know, we would last last week we talked all about physical boundaries. But the conversation that I actually feel like for real, for real, we don't have is about emotional boundaries. Yeah. Like how do we actually guard our hearts appropriately when we are dating and trying to discern if somebody is going to be our husband?

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Right. Right. And I actually think that this is very relevant too, because okay, there's that term guarding your heart used to run me the wrong way for a very long time. Because to me, it meant me it's it made me feel like the sense of like I was closed off, especially because we live in a culture right now where women are guarded. Right. And I think I didn't really know how to practice that. And so I feel like coming into dating as a Christian now, I'm starting to learn so much more about how this is actually something that God asks us to do, but not in such a way where you're pushing love away, but you're being responsible to your heart. And you're being responsible to the other person's heart. Yeah. Right? Because I think that that can very easily turn into this idea of like remaining cold almost. And that's why I I never really liked that term for a long time. But then you read in scripture, the Lord literally says, guard your heart. Yeah. And it's like, okay, so what does that actually now mean within the context of uh walking responsibly and dating responsibly? Yeah. Where you are actually opening your heart according to God's timing and according to his pace and according to his instruction.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

Yeah. Yeah. I think a really good place to start this conversation is just to like open up about how different it's been dating without sex and without all that physical intimacy. Yeah. Versus with it. Because I'll go, I'll be the first to say all of my insecurities got exposed when I stopped having sex in relationships. I was shocked because I've always considered myself like a very confident and very secure person. Yeah. And I didn't realize how much of that I was actually sourcing from my sexuality until taking sex off the table. So I'm dating this guy, and it's it's great. Yeah. And we're not having sex, we're really pursuing purity, like and I I'm I'm like, this is great. Like I I'm so in awe of like how how respected I feel by him and how uh protected I feel by him as well. Yeah. And the next thing you know, I start feeling a little bit like insecure because I'm like, wait, does he want me? Like, does he does he desire me? Like he hasn't called me pretty today. Like I don't even know if he's attracted to me right now. Like I start feeling like all types of insecurity creep up. I'm also feeling like oh, like I want like I I want more from him. Like I want him more emotionally invested in me. I know if I could just do this one thing, like he would be mine. Like I literally start noticing these like very ugly, manipulative thoughts creeping into my mind. Right. Like where I think to myself, like, well, if we were doing this though, if we were having this kind of physical intimacy, like I could get him hooked. Like I he I know he would be head over heels from me, he would be doing so much more for me, he would be saying all those beautiful things about me. Like, I just I I've noticed that in me of like I want him to validate me so bad. Yeah. And I know if I give him this thing, like he will give that to me. Totally. And it just it like sh it was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, like, oh, that is all up in there. Like, I'm actually not the competent and secure person that I thought I was. Yeah. Because it it really was all being sourced from you know the sexual pleasure I could give to somebody and what they would maybe give me in return for that. It's very transactional, actually. And that's been like it was kind of hard for me to wrestle with because it's like uh in one sense, like I'm a woman and I I want to feel desired. And I think that's actually a like, I don't think that's a bad thing. I don't think that's something we should shy away from in a relationship. Like it's important that you feel adored and desired by the person that you are dating. Is and at the same time though, I'm like I don't want to need that so bad that it like I don't feel confident about myself when I'm not getting that. Yeah. And I don't want to be needy, like I literally don't want to have to tell this man, like, hey, can you tell me I'm pretty today because you didn't say it yet? Like, you know, like that's I'm like, I don't wanna be that girl, but like I've I I feel like I I'm like, am I actually that needy? Like, do I actually need that much emotional validation and emotional attention? And I just didn't realize it because I was getting it in the bedroom.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Yeah, you know, I don't think it's necessarily bad that you want that. Like, I I think it's okay to have different ways of like love languages, right? We have different ways of loving. And I think men and women, and also not just men and women, but just different people have like a different way of expressing their love. And I think especially when we're dating in this new way, it's like, okay, how much intimacy do I actually share with this person emotionally? Like, what is the boundary of it? Like, how do I how do I care for this person without caring for them in a way that I would care for somebody that was my husband that I was committed to? It's like it's it's kind of challenging. Totally. It's really challenging. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

I actually found that the emotional intimacy was harder to manage than the physical intimacy. Like, as soon as you put the physical intimacy down and you have those boundaries in place, I realized that the harder part was how quickly my heart rushes into something where I actually can't reverse it once it's there. Yeah. Um, and so that has been really revealing and exposing for me. Um, because like I said, in the past, I would have thought that was correct.

SPEAKER_03 7:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Like the way that I've led in my relationships is from that place of devotion. And in a way, it's because for me it does come naturally. Like I really do understand the concept of like the gift of yourself to another person. Like I'm here to love you, I'm not here from to take from you. And I recognize that I practice that in relationship settings and contacts that didn't have the capacity to hold it safely and sustainably, right? Because I do think that there's a reason why God asks us to walk with that in covenant and not outside of it. So now I feel like I'm having to backtrack where I'm having to learn what it's like to pace my heart in a way that feels foreign. It actually feels foreign. It feels like I'm going against my nature. In some ways, it feels like I'm even going against the idea of what I thought God wanted me to do when it came to love. Fully. Yeah. Because I really thought it was just like give your whole heart. And now he's saying, no, no, no, keep it with me. Keep it, give it to me, and I will manage the rest. Right. And it's actually, it's funny because there's there's pieces that both of you guys shared that I resonate with a lot. You know, one of the things that did get exposed to me very quickly when taking sex off the table was how much of my identity was wrapped up in it. And I didn't expect that at all. Yeah. Like I remember the first time that the man I was dating said to me, When I think about you, like I don't think about you sexually. I literally was like, What? Like he saw my face because for a moment I took a step back and was like, You don't want me? Yeah. That's what it felt like. That's what you heard. That's what I heard. That's not what he said. That's not what he said, but that's what I heard. No, the truth is when he thinks about me, he pictures a family and children and like just the life that he wants to build for us. And I'm like, dang, that's so attractive. So you know, the first time hearing that, I was like, what does that even mean? Like, you don't desire me?

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Like, no, it's true. Like, it's what is the timeline? It's like, even just like like not kissing, like waiting to kiss for so long. I have I have not waited to kiss somebody for so long in my entire life. Yeah. And yet I've had more conversations with this person than I've had with other people. And I'm just like confused. I'm like, I actually did think, I'm like, do you even like me?

SPEAKER_01 9:24

No, true.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Like, are you even interested in me?

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Because are we what is happening? It's just like interesting to think that like that's now become a green flag in our dating process. Where you actually and I'm I'm noticing that too because I feel like what I've been used to in the past is this person becoming the center of my life very quickly. Yes. Like I have confused love with idolatry many times where I think that I love them, but I'm really, I just need them. I need them to validate some part of me that needs to be loved.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

And they become the center of my life, they become the focal point. I'm just like feeling so intensely for them. And that's what love was. Now, and the big turning point for me, I think, was walking away from my last relationship. Like when that happened, I feel like that chain broke off of me. Like that was the moment that God kind of dethroned men in relationships. And not in a negative way, but it was just almost like I recognized how much of the idolatry I was walking in. Yeah. That when I chose Jesus and I walked away from that relationship, something changed in me. Like, actually, like that was my supernatural encounter. Not in the sense where Jesus came to me and revealed his face, but like there was a before and after that experience for me. And I have been walking in that ever since, where I notice now there's so many beautiful qualities to this man as I'm dating him, things that I'm attracted to that I didn't have attractions for in the past, like the fact that he loves being a father and wants to be a father, right? And I'm drawn to these things, but I'm not obsessed with him. And I'm almost more settled in my nervous system in terms of my feelings and attraction towards him to the point where you do even question, does he like me and do I like him? Like what's going on here? Because Jesus really has become the center of my heart, where I'm I'm more satiated in that relationship than I am in the dating process. And that can be confusing when you're so used to just feeling so strongly for somebody so quickly and letting that be your marker of what love is. It can feel really disorienting. You're kind of like, whoa, it sh am I supposed to be pursuing this? Like is this something that's for me if I'm not literally chasing it down?

SPEAKER_02 11:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

And that's the thing. I don't feel like I'm chasing anymore. Like I'm actually not chasing this person. I'm not chasing his love, I'm not chasing his validation. I'm not chasing his love more than I am chasing Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

You have other things going on in your life. Yeah. I feel like a really big way that ideology becomes like super sneaky is making that person like the center of your world. And all of a sudden, like you let go of your hobbies, you let go of your friendships, you let go of your like the things that you enjoy. Because that was something that I used to do in the past, and I was super convicted of that. Going into dating again, I I felt myself actually date differently in that sense where I didn't let go of friendships. I haven't let go of people like the things that I enjoy doing. Yeah. And it makes such a difference, especially when it comes down to the like uh needing, seeking that validation in a sense.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Yeah. Yeah, totally. And it's interesting too, because something that I was reflecting on is, you know, the way that I date now would actually demonstrate to the man that I'm dating that Jesus is my number one priority. Like I can confidently say that with certainty. Like I know that for a fact. Like anyone who dates me, anyone who's in close proximity to me and my heart knows that Jesus is my number one priority. And if that's not the case, then there's something to question there. Yeah. Yeah. You know, why don't they know that? So it was funny. I was having a conversation with him recently, and I essentially said, I was like, dang, you know, if you just, if you saw my day, my day-to-day, like I spend so much time with the Lord. I spend so much time with him that I don't have time for you or anyone else unless you're meeting me there with him. Like, you gotta, in order to find me, you gotta go find the Lord. And he's like, Bet, we'll meet there.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

And I was like, ha ha, that's good.

SPEAKER_03 13:31

Yeah, okay, but it's true. But okay, so this is a piece I want to bring in because okay, so this was this has been my experience. All right, you're a woman who has left the world, left the dating scene of the world, and you have met this amazing, godly man who leads you spiritually. Right. Who, when you are with him, like the conversations you're having, the way that he's showing up, the way that you're showing up, the what it's bringing out of you, you can just feel that it's bringing you closer to the Lord. Yeah. Okay. You're like, wow, I've never experienced anything like this before. It's so different, it's so amazing. This man is my husband. No way. I knew it was coming. I knew he was coming. Like, I'm getting closer to the Lord with him. I'm growing in my relationship with the Lord with him. And next thing you know, like it's so subtle and it's so sneaky, but y'all, like, this really was happening to me. Yeah. Like, we need a button. It's like the Lord starts to go, like, you're saying, you're saying that this man is bringing you closer to the Lord. But really, like he's subtly becoming the Lord, the Lord. No, he's becoming God. Because you're seeking your relationship with the Lord only through your relationship with Him. Like the closeness you feel from with the Lord only happens through the what you're experiencing in your relationship with this man. Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

I wouldn't say that's all the time because for I don't, I don't feel that necessarily. But am I guilty of being like, that man's my husband? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 15:12

Okay, so we'll we'll go through all the different layers of this. But what I'm basically talking about is like getting ahead of yourself. Yeah. And how like somebody who actually is like a really good man, who actually like potentially maybe would be your husband, we don't know. But like how he can, it's a very subtle way where because like this was like how I was feeling, honestly, if I'm being like dead honest, where I felt the most gratitude for the what the Lord was doing in my life was with this man that he has brought into my life.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

And like where I really felt like I could feel like the Lord's love was like through this relationship that I was having with this man. And yeah, and like that really quickly became unhealthy because I I really got ahead of myself in terms of like that's good. Well, you know, this is bringing me so much closer to the Lord, so this must be the Lord's will, so this must be my husband. So guys, mark your calendars, right? Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Let me look up what ring I want.

SPEAKER_03 16:17

But he's definitely gonna watch this too. Whatever. Like really. But I I really have and and like because of that too, my emotions were progressing so quickly. Like I was I was moving on 5x speed, and he was moving on 0.5x. Right. So I really had to go through this like whoa, I had to, I had to come to terms with the fact that I had kind of put him on a pedestal. Yeah. I had made him an idol because he's was such a good man, and it's like, my gosh, like you're so different.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

No, literally, literally that also is the case. Like the contrast when you go from dating an unbelievable dating an unbeliever to suddenly meeting a man who is truly a God-fearing man and chasing Jesus, you're like, okay, wait, wait, wait. My standards were below the ground. Yeah. And now you've completely shattered them. Yeah. And the the beautiful thing is, like, you guys, we need to know that there are men like that in the world. I think where we fall into this place of like, not necessarily saying this for you, because I don't believe that's the case for you, but like where a lot of women can fall into that place of urgency of like, this is my husband, is because we think that they're like an anomaly. Yeah. They're the one and only. Like, I've never met a God-fearing man before in my life. This must be it.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

They have or that they have no flaws. That they, yes, okay. And like what's actually interesting is that when I I actually like to have the whole conversation with them and be like, listen, I've been making you an idol. Like I'm taking you off the pedestal. No, literally. And like just, you know, go to like have that conversation with the Lord too. And be like, listen, Lord, like I see that that that I have made this relationship an idol and I've put him on a pedestal. And like I'm bringing my attention back to you. Like I'm putting my focus back on you. And like I'm more focusing on like, I don't want him, like my life. I don't want to be like living in a way where I'm like, let me see how I can make my life fit his life. I want to live the life you've, you know, ordained for me to live. Yeah. Be in the season I'm in right now and see if he can fit into it. Yeah. You know? Like, and and so we we had to do that, me and the Lord. We had to like go through that re-entorientation. And what's really interesting was like I actually did start to see the man that I'm dating like differently, you know, like I see where he falls short.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:32

I see where like he does not love me perfectly, and where like there's still a lot of work to be done in our relationship to build a strong enough emotional foundation where I think that we could go into marriage. Go into marriage. Totally. Like I my time horizon for like when we could reach that destination has lengthened quite a bit. And I also like I'm not in a rush to get there, and I'm not the one like leading us there. Cause before I was like, so are we taking steps forward? Like, are we going towards the because that happened? And that like that happens. You meet an amazing man within five seconds of meeting him or 30 days of meeting him, like we know what happens. You're like, this man is my husband. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, you're starting to reorient your whole life around the your future marriage that hasn't even come to pass yet. And is honestly, it's too premature to say, right? Right. I just want to be for real. Like it's too premature.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

I think that's a clear sign that there is some idolatry at play, is when there's urgency and pressure. If there's urgency and pressure on a timeline, on an expectation, on any of that, there's some form of idolatry at play. And whatever that is, wherever it's coming from. Because it's true, like we don't actually know. Like, I don't believe that you can say that somebody is your husband after one encounter with them.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

They might end up being, but I think it's not even saying it, it's like acting in that way. Because I think it goes back to even if you know not awakening love before it's time. Yeah. I think that's something that's the piece that I'm really like recognizing here with that. Because it might not be necessarily that you're putting them on a pedestal, but if you are putting yourself in that mindset of this could be my husband, where does that lead you? It might lead you to cross boundaries more. Yeah. Because you're like, oh, but this is my husband. It might meet lead you to like make exceptions for things that you wouldn't tolerate otherwise.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

Totally. You're seeing the whole relationship through rose-colored glasses. And I want to say too, like, just some context to this, because this is something that I had to recognize for myself is, you know, I think it's really beautiful that there's so many people online these days who are sharing and talking about the Lord and not only the Lord, but like demonstrating examples of like what it looks like to have a relationship and or a marriage with Jesus at the center. And there is a lot of, I think our expectations in a lot of ways are being shaped by that. We see so many Christian influencers literally getting engaged after three months, you know? And it's like, that's great if that was the timeline that they were called to, but that doesn't necessarily mean that that's your walk with the Lord and your walk with your husband.

SPEAKER_03 21:19

I would say most of the time that's not. Yeah. I would say that is an exception and that it's not a rule because the reality is you actually don't know somebody in the first 30 days or 90 days of meeting them. Yeah. It's actually not even until like on average, six months in that start some of the facades start coming down and some of those persons' patterns start coming up. Yeah. Like you need to have more time before you can be sure because you can't say somebody is your husband when you don't know them yet. And like you could be like, the Lord told me, or there's like this just this feeling or this knowing, but like let him cook with that. Let him cook.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Let him cook with that.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Even if that is true, I think. What I'm really hearing and like feeling in this is like that might be true, but at the same time, we have to not act in that way. Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:10

Like it might also not be true.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Because I'm also it might not.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

And it yeah, and like saying let him show you over time. Like let the Lord expose that and reveal that over time. Like I really do believe that there's something to be said for that.

SPEAKER_03 22:25

There's actually something else that's coming through right now that's really important. Because we're all right now we're talking as if the assumption is God has already divinely appointed who your husband husband is. Right. Which I'm honestly not sure. Yeah, I'm not sure. I don't know about that idea. Okay, right, right. Okay. I don't know if God has already chosen your husband. Yeah. Or if we get to choose people that we want to date and get to know and choose for ourselves whether that's somebody we want to marry. Like the Lord has given you free will. Yeah. That is the greatest gift that he gave you.

unknown 23:01

Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

But he spoke that and he honors that. And and then no, but just to finish my point, like I always think about like, is it just that he gives us the free will to be able to choose people, date people, decide if that person is our spouse, and then bless that relation when it's when we make that decision.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

When we make that decision, you know? And I and I think it's I do think it's both like you were saying, and I think that God will also remove people from your life that he absolutely does not want you with. So that is the prayer going into it right from the start is like, Lord, if you don't want this man with me, and if you don't want this for me, like take him out of my life in whatever way you see fit. Like I don't want to waste that time. But I do agree, like part of choosing a husband requires you to step out in faith.

SPEAKER_03 23:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

And then there is a covering that you are under when you enter into covenant with that person where I I know that God would meet you in that in such a way that he will bless the marriage to restore maybe things that are hard for you guys, and and that gets to be the place where you get to walk with him. Right.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

Um because yeah, I also think that is true, but like we're really expecting God to just deliver the one man that he created specifically for you, like right to you and be like, this one. I think I used to believe.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

I actually think that's how I used to see it, but I agree with you guys now. I really think it is something that like I think you choose. I do think you choose, but I think at the end of the day, also God knows your heart and God knows that other person's heart. Yes. And I think you both have to be willing to choose. Absolutely. And I think that is what allows something to be blessed when it is chosen. Because I agree. I don't think it's like this one person. I think there are many. I actually now do believe there are many different people that you could build a beautiful, solid marriage with because God is gonna use your purposes. Like as well, I think as long as your purpose and their purpose are on the same path, then God can bless that. Yeah. But again, it is our choice. Yeah. It is our choice.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

Yeah. Like if he sees something, like you were saying this the other day, is like if he sees something that he knows is gonna be good for you, he will bless it.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

And it if he sees something that he knows is not gonna take you away from him, yeah, but bring you closer to him, he will bless it. I really do believe that. But we do get a choice, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:16

And it's not just as simple as there's the one person that is he, this is it, guys. Like, I met him, I found him. Right, like my husband. Yeah, low, no, it's I don't think it's like that either. I think my mind's changed about that. So, how do we emotionally pace ourselves in dating?

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Yeah, I think this is a really interesting conversation. Um, I think for me, where a lot of the emotional bonding happens is through like deep conversations, and also it tends to happen just through like physical proximity. So I think part of it too is like the pacing with the amount of time that you spend with somebody. Like, are you spending more time with them than you are the Lord? I think that's a clear indication of where like maybe some steps need to be pulled back a little bit so that you can leave space for God to move in this relationship instead of just your own expectations and assumptions. Yeah. Um But we had a conversation with a friend of ours, which I thought was actually really interesting that I want to bring forward here because I'm curious to hear your guys' take on it. And it's something that I've been reflecting on for a while. Um, but she was talking about how her and her her man have been um essentially receiving like counsel and mentorship from a really beautiful married couple, Christian couple um in their lives who I think have been married for quite some time. And um they kind of brought forward this conversation about there's like four different levels of conversations that you would have with somebody that you're seeing when it comes to emotional intimacy. That and there's an order to when you have those conversations as the relationship progresses. Like for instance, she mentioned I think you start with just like what is it, surface level conversation, and like opinions about things. I think the next one might be like opinions about things. Right, more specific topics, and then the third is like um maybe something that the like you've struggled with in your life. And then the fourth is like something that only the closest people in your life know about. And usually the fourth quadrant is like restrict is reserved for like just before you kind of step, like you guys know you're about to get engaged, like you're stepping into more of that next level of commitment before you get into marriage. Now, I don't know how much that can just be prescribed, generally speaking, because like at the same time, too, like are we really trying to police people's emotional connections? Right. No, no. Um, but it is interesting, it's something to think about because I have noticed myself actually practicing that without realizing it. Where in the past I would go right into the deep end with that person, day one and day two. I know everything about you, I know the worst day of your life, you know mine, and we're good. Yeah. And I'm like, I know your childhood trauma, all of it. I was always that way. Yeah. And I noticed that this time around, I'm actually moving very differently. I'm very deliberately reserving certain comments that I would typically make. Like, even if I'm feeling something emotionally, I'm not necessarily telling him in the moment. I'm kind of just letting myself be with it first. Yeah. Um, I'm just like holding back a little bit more, not in such a way where my heart is closed, but where I'm just being extra discerning and responsible about like, is this the time? Yeah. Is this the moment that you're really asking me to share this Holy Spirit? Um, and being in that constant prayer with the Lord. Because I do think that there is value to it.

SPEAKER_03 28:28

Right. Like, not I think what you're saying is like you're not um, first of all, telling this man every single thing about you right from the jump. Yeah, or every single thing I think about him. Right, or everything you think about him, and you're not doing your emotional processing with him. I think that's what starts to happen too. It's like, especially as women, like we're talkers, like we love to that's how we emotionally process. Honestly. So when did you stop going to your friends and your counsel to emotionally pro and the Lord to emotionally process, and so you started going to this man. Exactly. Because that's gonna build more of an emotional dependence on him that maybe is still premature to have. Exactly. And of course, like you want to see how the person you're dating is gonna hold you through those things, but like maybe wait three months.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Yeah, wait a minute a little bit. Wait a little bit. Like a 90-day rule is usually a pretty good standard. I'm not even gonna lie. Um, but a hundred percent. It's like I've actually noticed that like bigger things that I struggle with, I am taking to different people. I'm not bringing it to him just yet because I'm being very responsible for processing that independent of the relationship. And one piece that also goes hand in hand with that, which you brought up a little bit earlier, was I've actually noticed, because you mentioned the idolatry or the temptation to make your partner an idol when he's leading you to Jesus, and suddenly your relationship with the Lord only happens through that relationship, which in covenant, I don't want to say only happens, but in covenant, that is true. Your relationship to your husband should, by extension, be your relationship to the Lord. Like the two are one and the same. You have your personal, intimate relationship with the Lord, of course, but the number one place that you're gonna find God when you're in marriage outside of the word is in the heart of your spouse. So that is correct within that context. But what I've noticed that I've been in more contemplation around is like how much of my spiritual life I want to merge with this person right now. I've actually been very intentional about having those two things stay separate for a little bit. Like we've had certain conversations and discussions, we have read the Bible together, like maybe once or twice, but I've felt the Lord just impress on my heart more restraint around that. Like, not yet. Like, not yet. Just be with me for a little while longer. Just me and you before you bring him into this. And before I bring you into his, because I'm also doing a work in him right now that you got no business being a part of. Yeah. And so I've noticed that because that isn't extremely intimate. It is.

SPEAKER_03 31:00

Being together is the most intimate thing you can do.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

It is. It really, really is. Yeah. So those are some things that I've just like, I'm like, I don't even think about this before when I was dating, and now it's just become so, yeah, I've become so aware of it.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

I think those are good points. I don't think it's black and white. I think every relationship and every partnership has its own timeline.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Yeah, like I'm speaking about personal convictions. But I do think that's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

I think it's something to keep in mind, definitely.

SPEAKER_03 31:26

Yeah. I definitely like for me when I think about emotional pacing, I think about how quick am I to jump to that conclusion of like this is the one. Yes. And like I've really had to practice, like, all right, take it back now, y'all. No, literally. No, literally. Like, I really have to had to practice um restraint for myself emotionally. Yeah. Uh, and and not letting myself like overinvest too much emotionally into uh the person that I'm dating too quickly because I I also like, especially as a woman too, like I want him to lead in that department. And I know that I can have the tendency to like, like you were talking about, like take it there, go two feet and like just dive right into the deep end. Totally. But where is that gonna put me in the relationship dynamic? It really puts me in more of like a leading position, and that's not where I want to be. Ultimately, I want him to lead me. And so that means I have to trust his pace too. Yeah, you know, and luckily, like I'm dating somebody whose pace is a lot slower than mine, which I actually think is a really good thing. Yeah. Um, even though sometimes I don't like it, but it's a good thing. But for the women who are maybe dating somebody who's like they're the the pace that they're if the man is wants to go in is a lot faster.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:54

What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_01 32:57

I think that your your uh loyalty has to be to God first before it is him. Because that's where you're gonna get your instruction from.

SPEAKER_03 33:08

And yeah, because that's tough, right? Like it's tough because it's all we want, really. No, truth.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

Like I just want a man to like choose me fully, completely, and just like lead me straight to the but let's say let's say he is, maybe, but let's say he is, because I feel like part of that question too is like maybe he's leading quicker than she is, like he's leading at a pace that's a little bit too fast for what she's experiencing. I actually think that's a good opportunity to gauge what this man is really about. Where if the Lord is telling you slow it down for whatever reason, you don't know why, but he's saying slow it down, you're moving too quick here. And this is a God-fearing man, you can bring that revelation to him and let him know, hey, when I talk to the Holy Spirit about it, this is what I'm getting. And if he gets defensive, that's a pretty good sign that maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe this may not be a man you want to be uh deeply investing in. If he gets defensive, because ultimately he needs to know and he needs to support the fact that your devotion is to God before it is to him. Yeah. So I think that's an opportunity to kind of just see. Like you we have to I think we have to remember that when we're dating, we're not devoting, we're observing. We're observing. It's all information, Lane.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

This is good, this is very good.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

It's all information.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

We are not devoting, we are observing. Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Because a lot of women go into a relationship trying to correct the man so that they can become who they need him to her or him to be, essentially, so that they can enter into marriage. And we're so guilty of this. We always trying to correct our partners, we always trying to correct our men, we always try to convince them, but that this is how it should be. And it's like, that's not your responsibility right now. That's not your role. Stop trying to change him, just get to know who he is. I think that's just observe. That's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

It's like we're not, we're not, we're we're not trying to shape that person to be our husband. Yes. We are observing to see if that actually fits. Exactly. And but I don't think, okay, where's the line of that and also growing with somebody? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:12

Hold on, like and having certain things that you like want in the relationship that you communicate.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

I I just want to round out this point in particular about like speaking to the woman who's like in a relationship, the man is leaning at a quicker pace, she's feeling a little bit like I don't know about this. I also want to say, like, this is not to shame that man or you if you are feeling that that um like overwhelming sensation of like this is my person, or you're feeling that emotional intimacy and you're trying to manage it, kind of like what you were saying, where you were like, this is my husband, this is the one, like, and you know, despite your best efforts, like your heart went there, right? But you can also practice restraint around it. Yeah. And I think that's the bigger piece. Those two things can be true at the same time. Because I've noticed that even with the man that I'm seeing, there are things that he's feeling where he's like, I I know my heart is getting ahead of me right now. And instead of like indulging those things, he practices restraints in those in those moments. He's like, I'm not gonna say the thing that you want me to say.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

I'm not going to go there yet because it's not time. Because I don't want to awaken love before it's time. So I think both of those things can exist. You can experience that, you can feel all of that, you can even want to give your whole heart and devotion to this person right now and still choose not to, out of wisdom. Yeah. That's really good. Ooh, that's good.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

No, I feel like these two last have been like I feel like it's actually been like, all right, like I'm learning. Like I'm like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:49

Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Okay, but we talked about you're observing, you're not devoting. Where's the line between observing? Like, I'm purely just witnessing like how this person moves. Yeah. And then like, okay, I'm actually dating him now. Like we're boyfriend, girlfriend. And there's certain things that I'm like wanting to see change in the relationship. Yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Yeah. I think I don't have clear answers about this because I feel like this is the area where the Lord is really, I've been asking him to teach me more because I do think there's a gray area. You guys know I've brought this up many times. I'm like, I feel like there's a whole gap where you go from like being fully single and devoted to the Lord to then married and that space in between of being in relationship where I'm like, what does that look like? Like, what's the heart posture and all of that?

SPEAKER_00 37:37

We don't, we don't have dating in here. No, totally.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

And I'm like, this is where we really have to be in deep relationship with the Lord so that He can minister to us. Because I'm like, where that, though, Lord. And so I've been asking him this. But I do think that, you know, something that you did mention, I think one clear distinction is like when you are now in that posture of like boyfriend, girlfriend, we're in a relationship, we're growing towards marriage together. I think that's where certain more things tend to get exposed. Like when you hit the year-long mark of the relationship, you're going to see patterns come to life. And that's an opportunity for us to grow and work on that together. And so I think it is within that context, you have a responsibility and you have a right as a woman to bring these things forward where you get to ask for more of what you want to experience with this person. Totally. You know, you get to mention maybe some of the things that you're noticing that are hurting you and how he responds to that also gives you more information about the quality of the response.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

I think it's part of growing together. Like I don't think there's necessarily a timeline where you have to wait to share something that's on your heart. Yeah. I think if it's on your heart, you can share it. But I think what you guys have said, like what I'm really taking in is go to council first. Yes. And actually talk about how can I appropriately bring this up that isn't criticizing or isn't trying to change them. Right. I'm not like trying to suddenly manipulate them to do better. But I'm actually feeling this in my heart. I want, you know, for us to move forward, for us to grow. This is something that I feel that I need in order for us. Yeah, it's important to me. Yeah. In order for us to grow. What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_01 39:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Because I do think those conversations are necessary for sure. Um, it's like graduation stages that you're going through, right? Like nobody just is a husband. Nobody just is a boyfriend. You learn through experience what it's like to really love somebody, be in relationship with them. Um, and so I think that is part of it. I think the observing stage is more earlier on. Like I think a lot of that happens when within like the 90-day mark for the most part, when you're still getting to know that person.

SPEAKER_03 39:52

Yeah. Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:54

I I had to do that recently where I just like honestly, it wasn't even like I was like, I I don't need this to change immediately. Yeah. Like I I honestly just like have these desires on my heart for like what I want to experience in a relationship. Yeah, and it's and it's vulnerable, but like I want to tell you what they are. Yeah, exactly. And it and like my approach is kind of just like, I'm just gonna leave these with you and like I'm just gonna actually step back and observe what you do with it. Right. And like I'm not gonna get mad if it doesn't happen. Right. Like there's because he's not an idol. Right, because he's not an idol. Exactly. It's like, listen, this is I'm communicating with you what I desire. If you, if if nothing changes, that's data for me. That's information. Right, exactly. You know, and then you know, I could see that out over a timeline and decide whether I want to stay in that relationship or not. But I I I don't have to, I think that honestly is a big difference between how I was dating before and how I'm dating now. Now I'm not trying to mold the relationship into the marriage I want. I'm literally just observing whether this relationship can get to that to that point. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

And part of that responsibility is communicating and vocalizing what you would like that to look like and what you would need to feel nourished in that marriage. Right. Of course. Yeah, I think that's a really healthy way of bringing those things forward. And like you said, because he's not an idol, there isn't that expectation. So there's almost like a freedom in sharing it. Because it's like it doesn't hurt me if you don't meet this.

SPEAKER_03 41:24

Yeah, it doesn't hurt me if you don't meet this. You know, I mean, of course it will hurt me if I have to step away from the relationship, but I still got the Lord. Exactly. So I'm gonna be okay. That part.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

It's like that piece right there. I feel like dating with God versus dating without God, like I feel like my heart was like dating without God is just it was so reckless. And so just like when I'm hurt, it's just through I'm I literally am just like out of commission for two weeks. Like it's like I feel like that's literally how I was. Where dating with God, there's just a sense of trust that's just like I know that you see my heart, I know that you've got me, and I know that you have not forsaken me. And I know that you have plans to prosper me, plans for hope, plans for a future. Like it's just like my conviction in that has just strengthened my heart so much more than I've ever experienced before. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 42:29

Yeah, to the point where it's like, listen, like if it's not you, it is going to be somebody else, and I'm sure that person is going to be amazing because I'm the Lord's daughter. Yeah, and I know that He has great things for me. And even if I don't find a man, I have the Lord, and I will find a way to be fully satisfied and complete in my relationship with the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

Amen.

SPEAKER_03 42:52

Because ultimately no man is gonna be able to satisfy me completely. No man will satisfy you completely. You can only find that in the Lord. And like that's something we tell ourselves all the time. It's something I honestly like still gotta work on believing. Yeah, like just to be honest. Yeah, but um, I one thing I do believe in my heart is that no man is gonna be able to fully satisfy me.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

Yeah, that I know for sure.

SPEAKER_03 43:16

And so I have to trust that there is a satisfaction that I can have in the Lord that I'm only gonna be able to have in the Lord. Amen. Amen. Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of Meet Me at the Altar. Wow, guys, this combo, it's great, but there's so much more we could have gotten into. Like I know we say that at the end of every single episode, but I just feel like specifically in that gray zone between like we're dating and then all of a sudden we're married, we just don't know how to navigate every single trial and challenge and question that's gonna come forward. But we wanna keep having an open conversation about it. That's why we do this, you know. We just want To let you know that you're not alone, that we see you, that we feel you. We're literally right here with you. And we hope that as you hear us kind of wrestle with these things, something lands with you and it helps you find greater peace or greater discernment, or it just draws you to seek the Lord and to get his answer to the question that you might be having. So let us know how this episode impacted you. As always, leave us a comment or a DM, and we will see you very soon at the altar.