Making Business Better with Holly Hill

Holly Hill didn't wait for the world to catch up with her vision — she designed her own path. In this episode, Holly shares her remarkable career journey from environmental compliance at IBM in the 1990s, to sustainable design at an architecture firm, to her current role as Head of Sustainability at Zoom.

Long before corporate sustainability was mainstream, Holly was marrying business strategy with environmental purpose, even building her own graduate program to make it happen. She talks candidly about navigating career pivots, writing her own job descriptions, the real talk on AI in her field, and what she tells her own sons about finding work that brings them joy.

Whether you're a student figuring out your direction, a professional eyeing a pivot, or just someone who wants business to do better — this one's for you.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Just finding what you're interested in that will drive you longer than the job. The jobs will come and go, and bosses will come and go. But as long as you find what interests you, you'll continue to thrive.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Hi everyone, and welcome to Pathfound, the podcast about the real, messy, unexpected journeys that lead us to the work we love. I'm Monica Argandonia, and every week I talk with someone whose story proves there's no single right way to build a meaningful life. What if you can make business better? Not just for the bottom line, but for the planet? That question has been at the center of today's guest's entire career. Today I'm sitting down with someone I've had the privilege of knowing for a few years now. She's a third-generation Southern California Edison family, a Cal Poly grad with a self-designed master's degree, and a sustainability leader who has literally written half of her own job descriptions because the roles she envisioned didn't exist yet. She's worked everywhere, from IBM to architecture firms, from a Philadelphia nonprofit to an engineering consultancy, and today she's heading up sustainability at one of the world's most recognized tech companies, Zoom. She is Holly Hill, and her story is one of vision, grit, and just enough willingness to leap before she could see the other side. Holly, welcome. I am so happy you're here.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Hi Monica. So good to see you.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Fun to hang out with you in a studio setting. So, like I start everybody's. What were you like growing up, middle school, high school? As a child.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Well, I think I was very active. I would ride our tricycle, my tricycle all around the driveway. I remember doing that. I was the baby of five. And so yeah, they my older brothers picked on me a lot. So I grew to be a little bit tougher. So that was always fun. I used to play teacher. I remember that specifically growing up as a child. I would have a whiteboard and a chalkboard, and I would play teacher, and all the students were in front of me, and I would dictate to them what they had to do. So that was that was a fun time, I remember. And we always went camping. So I remember being out in the environment a bunch and just enjoying being out in nature. Were you a good student then? Yes. Okay. So I was a good student, but the feedback was always she's a great student, but she's a little chatty. She's a little chatty in class and she distracts the other students.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

So funny, I got the same criticism. Every report guard. She's great, but talks too much. Talk too much. Yeah. So social.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

So social beings. It's fine.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

So, all right. So you're in high school. Do you kind of know what you want to do? Is college on your radar?

SPEAKER_00 2:36

College was definitely on my radar. That was, I never wavered from that. Like that was my next step. Neither of my parents were college graduates. And so I was like, no, I'm going. I have a plan and I don't know what I want to study, but I definitely know I want to go and get a degree. And that was definitely intentional. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Okay. So where do you go? How do you figure it out?

SPEAKER_00 2:56

So I remember getting awards in junior high and high school. And that opened doors for different applications and different scholarships and things like that. And then when I started seeing where those led, it was, it was the school was kind of the tail end, if that makes any sense. So I would see there was National Scholar Federation, for example, or something like that. And then you would fill out that form and it was, do you want to send your, you know, your resume or your application to these different schools? And I was like, oh, yeah, those are, those could be on my radar. And then you start looking at the different schools. My French teacher was actually very instrumental in helping me now that I think about it. He said, you make a long list and you make your short list and then you make your absolute, your, you know, your guaranteed list. And so he pushed me on that, on the aspirational list and, you know, to apply at Rice University and you know, have the long shots and everything. And then the other schools were middle of the range, and then the ones you you knew you were going to get into. So yeah, and reflecting back now, yeah, it was it was him that really helped me formulate a plan for that. So where did you go? Yeah. I went to Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. Okay. Yes. What did you major in? Industrial technology. Actually, I started in environmental engineering, and I still showed that off to my boys because I got into an engineering program at Calpali San Luis Obispo. And so I started environmental engineering, and then the physics was just too hard for me. So I was like, okay, I'm not gonna pursue that. And then a bunch of us were interested in this industrial engineering, and it was just kind of evolving. And it was, it was bridging kind of the tactical world of packaging and marketing with the engineering side. And so it opened, opened up kind of a new arena, a new field for a lot of us that were in the environmental engineering program. How did you even find that? Like how did you pick that? I like the technical nature of engineering, but I didn't necessarily want to sit behind a desk or go into environmental law or, you know, design levers or anything like that. So when just looking at the course catalog, literally, like I like this technical. I don't want to lean towards the liberal arts. I want to do the technical work, but I want to broaden that a little bit more. And so that's yeah. So you stuck with that, graduated four years. Yeah, and then stayed there and got my master's. Oh, okay. Straight through. Straight through. On the same thing. So my master's, my graduate degree is uh environmental studies, actually.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

So I layered on the environment on top of the business and the engineering.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

What do you think brought about the environmental piece? I always knew I wanted to do that.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

I always wanted, not I can't say always, but I would say in high school, I just had this aha moment and I was like, business spends so much money. And imagine if all of their money was helping the environment. Imagine if those business decisions could help the environment. Imagine if I could parlay that, you know, to be better business and better environmental choices. And so when I did the industrial engineering route, that was the business side of the house. And then I was, and then I created my own master's program marrying the two with the environmental studies on top of it.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

So when were you in high school? 91 to 95. So you were ahead of your time. I mean, there was no sustainability program. There was no sustainability. There was very little environment. It's not like people chose there weren't a lot of colleges who offered those degrees.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

And even when I looked for a master's, the only ones, there was one in Australia that looked promising, and then there was one in a in a European country that looked amazing. But that was it. There was no, even now it's hard to find a doctorate in sustainability. So the master's, the master's was was fun to create. And yes, I was trying to get ahead of what I wanted to do, basically.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

That's so interesting. Like you actually figured out this is what I want. Now I gotta design it. Yeah. Huh.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

But it's funny you say that because I think it is a theme, because I actually have written four of my eight job descriptions. Okay. All right. So I'm jumping ahead. All right. So you graduate. Yeah. So you graduate your master's, and then what? Then there was a recruiting fair on Cow Poly's campus, and IBM wanted to hire me. They gave me a great offer. Housing, move up to the Bay Area, all of that. And so I started in their real estate organization. It was environmental compliance at that time. So that's where the degree took me, which was fine and great, but I knew I didn't want to do that long term. So and you had no experience in real estate.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

No, no, that's just where it sits. Yeah. Yeah. But it was just the compliance of policy correctly. Correct. Okay. So how long were you there?

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Almost seven years. Oh wow. That's been my longest job, actually. Still the first one out of college. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So did you like it? I did like it, but I didn't want to clean up anymore. I mean, I was raised with, you know, big business is bad, big business is bad, right? Like in the whole environmental movement of the 70s. And then to come to a company and they're building, they're manufacturing chips. And yes, they're not necessarily dumping into soil, but they're just doing less harm, right? So how do you get ahead of that? So I found myself when I was in the environmental compliance space cleaning up the messes. You know, there the pollution is happening and then you filter it on the tail end. Or, you know, you're generating hazardous waste and then it goes to an off-site facility, but the waste is still being generated. And that's what was frustrating me. I didn't want to be on the cleanup side. I wanted to be on the front end side to design that waste and that pollution out to begin with. Okay. Yeah. So you start looking for something else. So I picked up a side project at IBM doing lead certification for one of our facilities in San Jose. And it's called EBOM, Existing Buildings, Operations and Maintenance. And that was the certification project. And I just kind of did it on the side and got really excited about it. And then I saw a job opening at an architectural firm for somebody with EBOM experience. I applied and I got it, which was completely unexpected because I was going from environmental compliance at a manufacturing plant, basically, to an architecture firm. Very pivotal time, I would say, right? Like that was I did not expect to get that position. And I did. So it was cool.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

So all right. So now what are you doing in that job?

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Oh, at in the architecture. Yeah, I was a sustainable design manager. So I led the building group that did the energy modeling for them and did the lead certifications for them. Yeah. It was it was a great dream job. Yeah. How long did you do that? Four years. Why did you leave? We moved to Philly for my husband's job opportunity. So we moved back east. So I had to leave it. We can't go job by job. It'll go forever.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

No, no, but I think it's important. Okay, so now you're in a new city, no connections.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

New city, no connections. And I tried to navigate that same path. I tried to do the architectural arena. I tried to do there are amazing architecture firms in Philly and environmental consulting firms. And I wasn't able to get a job in there. So I ended up at GBCI, the Green Building Certification Institute, doing lead certifications.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Which I didn't mind, but I found myself pigeonholed because now you're just doing buildings. You're not doing large-scale developments. You're not doing sustainability more broadly. You're just focusing on this lead certification checklist for these incoming projects. So I knew the system, I grew the system, it was, it was fine, it was great. It was remote. So that was that was excellent. And then we got the opportunity to come back to the West Coast. And so I changed jobs again. All right. So you come now what? Now, now I go to engineering companies. So I had a connection at an engineering company called Integral Group. And she brought me on as a lead consultant because I had worked with her previously at HMC Architects. So that connection absolutely paid off. I was out of my element. And I would say that each of these job moves, I was out of my element by at least probably 10 to 15%, you know, like you know you can do the job up to a certain point, but then you always push a little bit. And so from going from the nonprofit of GBCI to an engineering firm was very different. And so I liked the diversity of projects as now I'm seeing all the projects come in. I'm working with many of them. And then we're doing big scale projects, so net zero developments and trying to do zero energy or zero waste or zero water for the Levi's facility, you know, up in the Bay Area or something like that. So that really broadened my horizons and and pushed me technically for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

So what do you think it was about you that, you know, because we've I've had this conversation with other women on the podcast, how men will apply for jobs that they don't have any experience for sometimes. They just, yeah, I'm gonna apply. And women have to check off all the boxes. Yeah. But you really you you just jumped in.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

I did. And I I this the scariest one I would say was probably going to the architecture firm because these are degreed architects. I mean, these are people that have been doing architecture for 20 years. And who am I to come in and say, hey, you know, you need to do a reflective roof? And oh, by the way, you need more insulation in this wall so that it's a better performing building. You know, like who am I to come in and change design standards when I'm not an architect? And so I feel like I have always pushed to do that, to try to push myself and push the role to do what I want to do and make it work for me and just just go for it, really. Did you have people helping you?

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Did you have mentors?

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Yeah, support. I always felt that people wanted me to be successful, very fortunate with that. Every manager I have had has really been helpful and navigating upward for me and very much guiding me, you know. And so I think that's been very instrumental. I I have not knocked on wood. I've been very fortunate with the leadership I've had. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Okay, so you're in this engineering firm.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

In the engineering firm. Go to a small consulting firm next, and then saw another what I felt was dream job open up. And that was Southern California Edison. And I am third generation Southern California Edison. So my father worked there, my grandfather worked there. There's a lot of history in our family, a lot of pride in, you know, providing the electricity distribution network of Southern California. And, you know, there's placards, and I've been to the dinners and all of that. And so they had a sustainability role open here in Rosemead. And so I tried, I applied for it and I got it, and it was, it was great. It was awesome. But there wasn't support. There wasn't support for the role in how I wanted to do it. So I found myself there for four years, but I had the same project plan. It wasn't moving forward. And I needed resources, I need a I needed budget, I need people that were sincerely wanting to move this path forward with me to be successful. So then I applied for another job.

unknown 13:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

So you talked about earlier you mentioned writing your own job descriptions. Did that happen in all of these jobs? I would say, yeah, I mean, a half of them at least. Okay. Yeah. So just kind of creating that role again because it's such a new field. Yes. So you stayed Edison a few years.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

And um, and then, oh, and COVID hit, right? And so then it was, okay, everybody, everybody go home. And so we were working from home. And again, just some self-reflection. Like I could I could take this job into retirement, but would I be fulfilled? And I realized I had more to give. So although the company didn't need me to give more, I wanted to give more. And so it was time to move on. And so I applied for this position at Zoom and fell in love with it. And so I have amazing leadership. I've got amazing autonomy. I get to drive the program and build the case for it and then continue to execute on it. So I love the balance of strategic thinking. So, you know, every year you're looking at the plan, you're understanding what the needs are, what the customers want, and then actually doing the due diligence and the work to get it done. Again, probably again, speaking with you, going back to, I guess I do like the technical and the strategic at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Yeah, that's fun. Do you think your degrees prepared you for all these jobs? I don't think the content was there yet.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

My the work I do now was not in a classroom. It was not available in a classroom. Could could we build a pro, you know, a curriculum that speaks to the job now? Absolutely. But it wasn't built at that point. I mean, the environmental compliance, maybe, but I wasn't going into policy and law. So I feel like the the backbone and the job that helped me the most was actually IBM because it gave me the ISO compliance. It gave me an understanding of the regulations and those environmental regulations I can always point to in all of the positions I've had as that as that experience. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

So I don't think a lot of people relate sustainability to Zoom. Oh, yeah, that's true. So what does it mean, like sustainability and Zoom?

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Yeah. So Zoom does have buildings and operations. So even though we are a SaaS company, we have, I want to say 22 operations around the world. So sustainability at Zoom has kind of three pillars. Number one is customer engagement. So what do our customers ask of us? Are they asking us to set a net zero target? Do they want to know our carbon footprint per call? Like what do our what does our customer base look like? What are our investors asking about? So engaging with customers, having those conversations, educating them about what we do do. That that's one pillar. The second one is reporting and disclosure. So looking at all of our data and our metrics, making sure it's accurate, making sure it's ready to be audited. That's another pillar. We are evaluating regulations globally to understand what that looks like as a global multi-billion dollar company. So that's always changing. And then the last pillar is operations and execution. So reducing waste in our own offices, choosing to do compost, all of our data tracking from our own facilities, collecting our energy, water, waste bills, making sure all of our site coordinators are doing that. If we have any on-site events, minimizing waste for that, choosing recycled materials. So it's not it, there is a global footprint. It is smaller than one might think, but yes, there is a global footprint.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Yeah. So you love your job. Yes. Are you, is this it for a while? Is it what's on the horizon for you? It's gonna be really big or it's gonna be really small.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

So I bid at every size company, and there's pros and cons to all of it, right? It's nice to have the formality of a big company. It's also challenging to work in a bureaucracy. And a startup is similar, right? Like you have to do so much in a startup, you have to be the jack of all trades. I think next is two options. I feel like it's going even bigger to like a Roche or a Genentech or, you know, a very massive company that has a large team related to sustainability. And they have a fully built-out program. And, you know, it's so it's a well-oiled machine. The other idea is to go to a nonprofit like the Nature Conservancy or NRDC and and be a support person there and use my use my skills to help them maybe even quantify their own impact. That's what I'm toying with, but not for a while. Not for a while. You're good. Not for a while. I'm so good. I'm so good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

So you knew very early on what you wanted to do. And you found, you know, you kind of designed this thing in college and grad school and really carried that through through all these different workspaces, which I think is unusual. I mean, I think people don't necessarily find that. Is it just because you kind of figured it out early and you think, yeah, this is it, and no question about it? Do you think you just didn't think to go somewhere else or do something else? Like, what was that?

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Because I think I feel like the backbone theme has always been there, right? Like using business for good, right? Like that that backbone theme has carried me through. But when you talk about the sectors, they're so different, you know, the building sector, the nonprofit sector, you know, architecture, compliance, that they're all business doing good. Right. And it's that theme that I've been able to do it in so many different veins. That's what's been fun. Like it's always different. It's all the conversation is always different. The customer base is always different, the client's always different. So that keeps me motivated. It's the same theme, it's a different conversation, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

So what do you you have two young boys in high school and what are you telling them as they're trying to figure out the path they want to take and colleges and careers?

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Again, going back to finding your passion. And so I feel like my job as a parent is to help them find what they are passionate about. And it doesn't have to be a full stop. It doesn't have to be it's just one thing. But I feel like people are successful if they're living their dream, if they're, you know, if they are actually doing the work that makes them care and love and brings them joy. And so if they can find that, then I feel like I've been successful. That and that's also my fear, right? If they don't find it. Because I have several friends and they they say the same thing. They're like, I never found that, Holly. I never, I never found that job. I never found that passion of what I want to do. And so I hope I can expose them to enough things that they can they can find that. And again, they're young. I mean, they might not find it till they're 30 and 40. Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

You know, but and I think one of the concerns and something that keeps coming up is AI. Are you concerned about AI in your career?

SPEAKER_00 20:42

I'm concerned about the perception of AI. So I've been using AI and it is straight up incorrect. What I've been curating, the prompts I've been giving it, and the information I'm receiving are completely wrong with what is truly happening. And that's what makes me nervous, is because if people take that information without a human with expertise and experience reviewing it, then all of that false information gets disseminated. So it takes that level of human intervention and not just any intervention, you know, an actual keen eye with very knowledgeable experience to then, you know, interpret the AI results. So what worries me is that everybody's saying, yeah, just use AI, just use AI, just use AI. And I'm like, you can't just use AI, you know, like I am getting incorrect dates on regulatory filings from AI. I mean, black and white. You know, carb is telling me one thing and AI is telling me something different. So I don't worry about it for my job. I worry about it for societal, societal, you know, impacts more so. For my job, as long as I can have that layer of exposure to it before it becomes public or whatever we're doing with it, then I'm comfortable with it. But if I don't get to see it before it's going out the door, then yes, there might be some concerns. concerns.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Yeah. You've also worked in nonprofit, you worked in corporate, you said all these different sizes. Are there pros and cons to those? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

So again, the big, you know, the big bohemoths, they give structure, they've given give formality, there's rules, there's policies and everything. I will say the one company where I felt you knew where the ship was heading, everybody was on board. 385,000 people worldwide was actually IBM, where you had clear understanding of the goals and the priorities of the company. Granted this was 20 years ago, but it actually felt very cohesive for its size. I've also been at an 18 person engineering company where it's very disparate and there is no formality to the HR policies or who's taking vacation or who's managing what projects. So I think there is something to be said for the large corporations and how they've learned to manage and evolve over time. And then the newbies coming up, right? Like everybody wants to be an entrepreneur on a startup. Well, there's a growing pain after you're a startup, you have to go through the teenage years and you do have to build out things that employees can rely upon or reduction emission reduction plans or whatever you know that nuance is. But you're going to have to come to that point if you want to continue to grow. And then once you get to those growing pains, hopefully you're successful again. So there's there's evolutions and there's ebbs and flows into when companies are successful in different times in their maturity and you jump in to to what feels right for you, you know? So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

And you also said your goal is to make business better. Do you think business can be better? Have you achieved that?

SPEAKER_00 23:39

No, no, you've never achieved it. I don't feel like and that that's another driver, right? Like you could I can do more, you know, I want to do more. I want to expose leadership to more ideas. And there's people willing, you know, I mean we've got site coordinators in the Netherlands that are doing amazing work and they're going out of their way to make sure everything gets composted or something, you know. So there's no, we can always do better. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Yeah. Sustainability, the term has become very political. Has that affected you? Job options, your kind of your role?

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Directly, no. Our business is driven by customers and what the customers want. Luckily our customer base is international. So we still get tons of pressure to set a science-based target, to reduce our emissions, you know, to evaluate water for our data center use and everything like that. So there's a lot of pressure still for us to to be responsible citizens. So it has not affected me directly, but I do have very close sustainability colleagues who have been let go in other companies. So it's happening, you know, and people are feeling it but we are in in a certain spot where where we are still carrying ourselves accountable and holding ourselves accountable. Pinchelin will swing again. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Right. Right. Yes. Yes. So what advice would you give just a college student right now who is kind of trying to figure out college and majors and what to do during that time and then graduating and how to find a job because I think you know you told me the story about you posted a job and got something like 800 applications in one day. In 72 hours we had 834 applications. Yeah. Overqualified overqualified like yeah insane. And I think you know they're getting frustrated they graduate and they apply and yeah who knows where those land. Yeah. What advice do you have as for those those young people coming out of college?

SPEAKER_00 25:33

So on the on the front end your earlier question, just finding what you're interested in. I because I think that will drive you longer than the job, right? So the jobs will come and go and bosses will come and go. But as long as you find what interests you'll continue to thrive. On the second piece the jobs what I have seen is just the networking the networking has to pay off because it's just the connections and the networking and who you know even all of us now in our 40s we are talking to each other about jobs. Those that have laid off they're reaching out to like you know we're reaching out to each other. It's not an open an open job on LinkedIn or anything like that. I've been lucky that I have gotten jobs via the traditional path and and you know LinkedIn openings and stuff like that. But I think that is becoming increasingly rare.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

But even networking, you know, because I tell I tell them that also but yeah you know it's really hard to connect to people I mean nobody responds to emails. Give a little bit more like how do you network?

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Yeah so when I came back from Philly I found the local organization in Los Angeles the US Green Building Council and they have many many programs. But I would say finding a local organization a local organization that you're interested in and it might not become your career network, but at least you have a friend base that's going through the same thing. And and that becomes harder and harder as you graduate from college, you know? And also yeah I would say it's getting out there and going to events and activities. Yeah. And you know the different programs we have. Yeah. It's hard. It's it's so hard. I mean I do not and I don't want to minimize that that is absolutely hard work. And again, experienced professionals, it is a full-time job to find another job. So it is very challenging for new grads as well, you know. I still think the big four want to take up you know the young ambitious graduates, you know, the PwCs and the EYs and stuff like that. And that's a great starting point because then you can figure out too what you want to hone in on.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

So going back, you know, when you were in college and maybe there's maybe you have no advice for yourself because you did it right. But what would you knowing what you know now, what would you go back and tell your your 21 year old self?

SPEAKER_00 27:50

I would probably say good job staying a fifth year because I loved college and I loved the campus and I loved the central coast of California. And so I was like why would I leave? Like yes I'm graduating but why the heck would I leave? So I I stayed and just finished the master's in a single year. And that was awesome and great and you know I was getting older. So I would say kudos to that. I would also say I wish I had taken more classes on fundamental environmental work and even even law probably not that I wanted to go into it but just more environmental classes just for interest you know yeah Holly thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

I really appreciated this conversation because you know you have been a great mentor and really helped build our students network. So we appreciate that. Absolutely yeah it's a pleasure thank you and thank you for making business better. Thanks Monica Thank you so much for listening to Pathfound. If anything we talked about today connected with you or gave you a new perspective we'd love it if you subscribed left a review or shared the episode with someone you care about. You can also find us on Instagram at PathfoundPodcast. To explore more stories, resources and ways to get involved visit Keystoneetwork.org. This podcast is just one part of the journey at Keystone Network where helping young people and anyone figuring it out as they go build meaningful futures one step at a time. A huge thank you to my podcast editor David Strutt you can find him on LinkedIn for helping bring these stories to life and to Elizabeth Minor at Silvermine Creative for the beautiful artwork and web design. And if you're on your own path navigating the unknown making a pivot or simply figuring it out as you go just know you're not alone. The route may not be linear but there's always a way forward. I'm Monica Argandonia and I'll see you next time on Pathfound