The Bible Exalted!

The Bible Exalted! 037 Light and Darkness, Darkness vs. Light

• E Bible Fellowship • Episode 37

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 1:32:02

The Bible Exalted! is a podcast program that seeks to uplift the word of God which is being highly exalted at this time. Each episode explores both sides of a doctrine, examining how one passage of Scripture may seem to teach one truth while another points in a different direction. Through careful study, the program seeks to uncover the harmony of the Bible as a whole, showing which understanding aligns with the full testimony of Scripture.


"...rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:15

About Panel Speakers:

Chris McCann:
Chris grew up in Philadelphia. Like many of God’s elect, he was first raised in the ways of the world until God drew him to His Word, the Bible. With an earnest desire to study the Scriptures and uncover the mysteries hidden within them, Chris—together with others—founded the ministry of eBibleFellowship. The ministry is dedicated to faithfully proclaiming all that is written in the Word of God and striving to remain true to its teachings.

Bob Grande:
Bob was also raised in the Philadelphia area.  God drew him to be interested in studying the Bible in the early 1990's.  He attended church until 2001 and departed out after learning about the end of the church age. He is currently seeking to grow in the grace of God.


Gary Daniels:
Gary from Philadelphia: Gary grew up listening to both a faithful ministry that at the time declared the truth from the Bible for many years, but also was under the pentecostal church. God led him toward the truth and is thankful for God's mercy showing many truth's from the Bible


Karl von Harringa:
Karl was born and raised in Ohio, just outside of Columbus. From an early age, he was brought up under the hearing of the truth and developed an interest in the Bible. He grew up in a household where the Word of God was central.

SPEAKER_03

And now here's a pre-recording of an e-Bible Fellowship panel discussion. Good night, everyone, and welcome again to eBible Fellowships, the Bible Exalted Program. I'm your host, Gary Daniels, and tonight we're seeking the Bible's answers to various Bible topics, in which the Bible has the final say in the matter. Joining us tonight are our beloved panel speakers, Bob Grandy, Chris McCann, and Carl von Herenga. Welcome again, uh folks, if you're listening by radio, by repeat broadcast, folks that are watching live via Zoom, YouTube, and other platforms. Welcome. You can join us online at www.ebiblefellowship.org or at a rebroadcast by radio. We'd like to hear your on topic questions and comments. This is going to be a one and a half hour program if you're watching us live. And for future broadcasts, it's one hour. We typically open up for questions and comments at the half hour line. I also want to mention that if you're listening via Zoom, you can also go into the closed captions section. You can pick the language that you'd like to listen in on. I believe we have this voice uh ability to do that. All right. So tonight's broadcast, our topic for discussion is light versus dark. Darkness versus light. Light and darkness. And that's going to be our topic. So let's start with you, Bob.

SPEAKER_06

Thanks, Eric. Uh hi, everybody. Yeah, if we're uh at all familiar with God's word, the Bible, when we hear the word light, we should immediately associate it with Jesus Christ because of what we read in John 1, verses 1 to 5, which I'll I'll take the time to read. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him, and without him was not anything made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men, and the light shineth in the dark in darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not. And I'll drop down to verse uh nine and ten. That was the true light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. And dropping down to verse 14, and the word that we read in verses one to five, the word was made flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. So by his own definition, uh God wrote the Bible, Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the word, he is God, he is the life, and he is the true light of men. And if we are to obey God's command in 1 Corinthians to compare spiritual with spiritual, we have to go back to the beginning of the Bible and read from Genesis 1, verses 1 to 5, which I'll also read. In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth, and the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters, and God said, Let there be light. And there was light, and God saw the light, that it was good, and God divided the light from the darkness. There's our light and darkness. And God called the light day, and the darkness he called night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. So we can see in this true historical account of the first day of creation that occurred in 11,013 BC, according to our calendar that we use, the Gregorian calendar, that God divided the physical light from the physical darkness. But more importantly, we can understand that God also painted the spiritual picture of the gospel of salvation in these verses. That is, God has opened the eyes of his people to understand that the light of the world was God Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, who paid for the sins of his elect at the foundation of the world in eternity past, by dying and resurrecting from that death to be called the Son of God, and then create this universe. It's amazing. But on the fourth day of creation, we read more about light and darkness in uh Genesis 1, verses 4 to 19. And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years, and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth. And it was so. And God made two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good, and the evening and the morning were the fourth day. So here God assigned the light that was created on day one to the sun, moon, and stars that he created on day four. But he emphasizes that these lights in the firmament would continue to divide the light from the darkness, and this that the sun and the moon and the stars would be for signs and for seasons. And one of the reasons he did this is found when we read, uh, for instance, in Isaiah 13, verse uh nine and ten. Behold, the day of Jehovah cometh, but cruel, both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate, and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light. The sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And there's a similar verse in Matthew 24, verse 29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heaven shall be shaken. So the timing for these verses was 13,023 years after day four of creation. And these verses are not referring to the physical sun and the physical moon and the physical stars. They are referring to the spiritual light bearers, where the sun is a type of Jesus Christ, the moon is a type of the word of God, and the stars are types of the elect of God. And the reason they are not bearing their light anymore is because God has shut the door to salvation of future salvation of souls after Judgment Day began about 15 years ago on May 21, 2011. And by this date, all of God's elect have received the salvation spoken of as the inheritance in Colossians 1, verses 12 and 13, which I'll read. Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance, and we spoke about the inheritance, I believe it was last week or the week before, uh made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light, who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear son. And I just want to read one more verse of encouragement, then I'll turn it over to the panel. In first John 1, verses 5 through 7. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is the light, he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another. And the blood of Jesus Christ, his son, cleanseth us from all sin.

SPEAKER_03

Excellent verses, Bob, and uh it's a good tie-in from beginning to the New Testament as well, from God's light and also God's elect or light bearers as well, and also talking about the sun being darkened and the moon not giving us light. And I was looking at light and darkness, and it's interesting how darkness it seems to have some different um shades, so to speak, because darkness can be God's wrath in terms of blindness, so you can't see spiritually, and darkness can do with uh death uh in terms of uh spiritual destruction and non-existence. But it's interesting that uh those who claim to be elect, God says to those who are charged with sharing the gospel to cast those into outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing. Gnashing of teeth. Yeah. So it's interesting that when we see darkness, it can also be a form of blindness. Because if you're weeping and gnashing of teeth and you're cast into outer darkness, it's like a spiritual death. And in that process, there is a there's a reaction of of weeping and gnashing of teeth. Although that person may not understand that that's what they're doing.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, they they have no idea that they're weeping and gnashing their teeth.

SPEAKER_07

That's yeah, that's actually really interesting about the outer darkness.

SPEAKER_03

I never thought about that. That's right. And in terms of light, it's beautiful because I can't think of different shades of light. It's truth. It's God. It's it there's a oneness to it. But when you think about darkness, there's a there's a verse where God says with a cherub he did fly and darkness was under his feet. So it gives another range of of God's power over darkness. It's under his feet in terms of ruling over it. And then also the darkness has to do with evil, just pure evil, darkness. So there seems to be different uh uh shades of of darkness in terms of evil, uh judgment, and also lack of understanding. And and but when it comes to light, there's a shining of light in Paul, there was a light that shone round about him. And I believe there's one more instance and that's uh let me see if I can find it.

SPEAKER_04

Uh let's see here.

SPEAKER_03

I know Paul had that the uh the light that shone round about him. Yeah, that was Acts. I want to say it's after Acts 7, maybe Acts 3. And and it's it's mentioned three times. But oh yeah, when the birth of Jesus, it says in Luke 2 9. And lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them, and they were sore afraid. So the light shines around about Paul, the light shines round about those when the glory of the Lord appears. And that's just another beautiful uh picture of the light shining round about God's elect.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, the the ver the passage that uh Bob read in first John 1 5, I was going to mention that, so I'm glad he read that. Just showing uh but I w there's there's another passage that kind of ties in. This is John three, uh verses eighteen and nineteen. It says, He that believeth on him is not condemned, but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation that light is coming to the world, and men love loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. So that's uh a good passage that showing that men by nature hate uh the light, and Christ is the light, so they really hate Christ. Yeah. And they they love darkness.

SPEAKER_03

Reminds me of Moses when he when he came from the mount and his face was shining. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

Like you were saying, uh you were saying uh in um uh you were saying that death can can have many different uh meanings uh depending on the context. There there's a verse in Job where, yeah, like you said, the the the darkness uh is related to death. Um it says in Job 17, verse uh 10 to 13, but as for you all, do ye return and come now? For I cannot find one wise man among you. My days are past, my purposes are broken off, even the thoughts of my heart, they change the night into day. The light is short because of darkness. If I wait, the grave is mine house, I have made my bed in the darkness. You know, so that's a a Hebrew parallelism. The grave is my house, and my and my bed is in the darkness, so the grave is related to darkness. Uh the grave or the grave is hell. Right. And identifies with death and and that also identifies with darkness.

SPEAKER_07

I think you might have read John 8.12. I'm not sure. It says, Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world. He that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life. That kind of reminded me of Isaiah 60 when it in verse 1 where it says, A rise shine, for thy light is come, and the glory of Jehovah is risen upon thee. I I always kind of skimmed past that part. But now it makes sense that Jesus is called the light, so I think maybe you can read it like for thy Christ is come, maybe come in judgment. I just I don't know if I uh consider that that that light is also is Christ.

SPEAKER_06

Christ is light, he's faith, he's truth.

SPEAKER_05

Uh back in John 1 that Bob read, verse 5, it said the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not. So that's saying darkness is people. I mean, it can have like darkness is evil, darkness is death. I guess that's what Gary was saying. That, you know, different levels. But here the darkness comprehended it not. It's not physical darkness, physical darkness, you know, or or the created world, it must be people. And then down in verse uh 10, he was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. So the darkness comprehended it not, the world knew him not. So the world and the darkness are the same. And then when we think, well, it has to have to do with man's sin, that people are sinners, that they're in darkness, and over in Ephesians in chapter four, it says in verses 17 and 18, This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk in the vanity of their mind, having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them because of the blindness of their heart. And when someone's blind they can't see, and they they see dark, they just see dark. And here specifically, and John one kind of touched on this, when Christ, the light of the world, entered into the world, the darkness comprehended it not. Here, the understanding of the sinner is darkened. So people are in the dark as far as understanding Christ, the light of the Bible, and I think there's another relationship between light and darkness and truth and the lie. Right? Light is the truth, darkness is the lie. And so people cannot comprehend the truth. John 8 45, uh that verse, because I tell you the truth, you believe me not. They can't comprehend it. The world knew him not. And yet there is a people that Christ has chosen out of the world, his elect, and he gives us understanding. And in uh Ephesians 1, Ephesians 1, it says in verse 17 and 18, it's kind of like the flip side of the coin from Ephesians 4, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him, the eyes of your understanding being enlightened, that ye may know what is the hope of his calling and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints. So God gives to his people wisdom and revelation of knowledge of him, and he opens up the eyes of understanding. So, you know, we were children of wrath even as others, and the wrath of God abode upon us, so we were in darkness, and darkness identifies with hell and death. God's wrath is upon us, we're we're in darkness, and the Lord chose us from eternity past, he predestinated us, he elected us, and then he sent his word. And at some point, he used his word to quicken us. The word is living, and it fell upon our heart that was in darkness, it was dead, and then the Spirit of God blessed the word, quickened, and brought our heart to life, and all of a sudden we see, we understand, eyes of understanding, and uh, and and that's when you find yourself, you know, all of a sudden you're sitting by a radio. You used to be out there running around doing all kinds of stuff, and all of a sudden, oh, what time is it? Open forums on, gotta get back. Mr. Camping's on, and you're sitting by a radio, and before you know it, you know, you have your Bible, you're taking notes, and you're you're going, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I get that.

SPEAKER_06

I understand that. You know, Mr. K speaking of Mr. Camping, you you brought up uh the the um you know when when our eyes are open. I remember his analogy that he used to use that you know when um Adam and Eve sinned, that he like he unplugged the uh the lights, the the lights. The energio, I think in the Greek. And uh and then, you know, as uh and then when somebody becomes saved, it's you know the the it's plugged back. He plugs it in. It's not that you know the church teaches, oh yeah, uh God paid for his sins of everybody. All you gotta do is plug in your faith and and you'll be saved. But that's not what he was talking about. He you know, he was just he was it's all God's work. Could hold, hold, hold.

SPEAKER_05

Could you hear me? 'Cause all three of you froze.

SPEAKER_07

Except I saw you freeze for a second.

SPEAKER_05

You saw me freeze?

SPEAKER_07

Yeah. I saw all three of you freeze.

SPEAKER_05

You pulled the plug. We pulled the plug out.

SPEAKER_07

That means that your connection you lost the connection for a second.

SPEAKER_03

That's interesting because um when it comes to light and darkness, it's uh it's like understanding when God gives you understanding and you understand, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Oh I'm sorry. Yeah, go ahead, Chris. Well, I was just gonna say, which is why it's not good to say the least when people go back from understanding. They had understanding, and uh they they even rejoiced in it, and then due to various things, they go back from it. And well, what does that mean? You know, how could that be? We know someone once they're saved, they're always saved. So it it it's really um, you know, um, it's presenting an issue that is uh kind of troubling for people to hear, but but it it's it's uh apparently you can have temporary ascent or under intellectual understanding that can be so close to the actual right understanding, it can't be distinguished. At least we can't distinguish, of course, God sees, but we can't distinguish. We have no idea. We just see someone they understand, they might even understand more than us. They might know more than us, and they're telling us oh yeah, hey, thanks for sharing that. And uh over a course of time, then they're gone. The thing they told us about that helped us learn something? Gone with the wind. Yeah, they they would they would reject it, renounce it.

SPEAKER_07

Could it be like faith where it it has the understanding has to become from the heart rather than you know, like like the devils believe, you know, we were talking about faith, but it wasn't genuine faith because it wasn't coming from the heart. Could it be similar with understanding where they have understanding, but it's not coming understanding from the heart?

SPEAKER_03

It must be. It must be Solomon was given a spirit or another, he was given another heart, like Saul was given another heart. So it's like a temporary, it's like a temporary uh opening of understanding, very temporary, it's conditional.

SPEAKER_07

Well, look at Balaam, too, right? The Spirit of God came upon Balaam, said a lot of good things.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, but back to what I was saying about light and being understanding, when someone has a false gospel of choose Christ or accept him, if you're in darkness, how do you find the door? How do how does someone in complete darkness reach out? And and so, you know, I remember Chris, uh, me and Oliver were saying that when somebody gets cornered with scripture, you know, they can bob and weave. So they're so slippery you you can't really hold them. But when it comes to darkness, which is not understanding and foolishness, how does a fool become wise? How does a fool recognize um they need understanding?

SPEAKER_07

So remember remember Sodom and Gomorrah? They they were they they're smitten with blindness? Couldn't find a door. Yeah, but they're also burned in their lust at the same time, and they're yeah, they couldn't find the door. So it was like a darkness because they're blinded, they couldn't see. There's stomach.

SPEAKER_06

How does a corpse become alive? That's that's another way, you know. We we we were all basically corpses before God, you know, made us alive.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, we were in darkness, which means we were dead, right? Identifies with death. And just uh, I don't know about all you guys or all the listeners out there, but I know when I grew up, I didn't know anything about anything. I barely knew anything about the world. And definitely I didn't know anything about God, nothing about the Bible, nothing about spiritual things, you know, really nothing. And um I was in darkness. I was in darkness of understanding, ignorance of my it does it say ignorance of mind there? Ignorance of uh Sounds familiar, but that could be being through the ignorant, it just says through the ignorance that is in them. So so being ignorant means you don't understand something, and I had no understanding. It's just the grace of God. The grace of God that, like um Saul of Tarsus, was in darkness of understanding, and God shined the light, and uh it it says in Acts 26, he's recounting his experience and saying in Acts 26 uh verse 15, I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest, but rise and stand upon thy feet, for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee, delivering thee from the people and from the Gentiles unto whom now I send thee to open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me, in Christ, Christ's faith. So open their eyes, turn from darkness to light, eyes of understanding, enlightened, and now and and you know he he was a quick student back then, God made him a quick student because he grew up with uh the law and and it wasn't long, and he was preaching Christ and and one about um you know uh and experienced a lot of persecution for the sake of Christ.

SPEAKER_07

He's somebody who had the Bible but for many years but couldn't couldn't understand it because he was blinded. Yeah, right. Couldn't understand the law.

SPEAKER_05

I think I think we're at that time.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, we're at that time. You're listening to the Bible Exalted program. Uh tonight's topic is darkness versus light. Darkness and light, and the difference between light and darkness. So uh we're gonna open up the lines now if you'd like to have a question or comment.

SPEAKER_06

I'm particularly uh joyed about this topic because it's one of the more in your face speaking about that, uh I don't know if you want to continue, but uh speaking about in your face, there's in in uh in 1 Thessalonians 5, you know, I don't know how people that in the churches that read the Bible, how they, you know, it's right in their face here. And I'll I'll read this. It says in in uh verses one to five, but of the times and seasons, brethren, I have you uh you have no need that I write unto you, for yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, peace and safety, then sudden, and we know that sudden means unawares, then sudden destruction cometh upon them as a travail upon a woman with child, and they shall not escape. But yeah, so it's a totally different set of people. The destruction is happening to one set of people, but the but in this verse it says, But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day, the day of the Lord, should overtake you as a thief. Yeah this other group are all children of the light and the children of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. So there's there's two groups of, you know, and uh I don't know how they get around that.

SPEAKER_05

Well now relate that to understanding, right? Well, they don't know. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness of understanding, right? That that day should overtake you as a thief. You're all children of the light, enlightened understanding. You'll you'll have the eyes of your understanding enlightened, children of the day, not of the night, nor of darkness of understanding. And and to Daniel 12, the wise will understand, none of the wicked will understand. Why will the wise understand? Because it's given to them to know the mysteries, but also God is opening their eyes.

SPEAKER_07

Look at verse 7, too. It says, For they that sleep, sleep in the night, and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. To be in darkness is also to be drunk, like they're stumbling about, uh not knowing what the truth is. And you see that in today's world, I'll go on social media and there's all these ideas coming out of the Bible, and they're all like just stumbling around, not having that understanding. And it just seems like they're all just kind of trying to find the door, as it were.

SPEAKER_03

Not having the truth. Interestingly enough, Bob, when even though it's right in their face, as you're saying, what we can understand is that the reason why they don't understand what you're saying is because you're speaking in tongues. And I was laughing to myself because I came from a church that spoke in tongues. But when a believer, a true child of God, is teaching from the Bible spiritual truths, it's as if you're speaking an unknown tongue. It's like you're speaking in tongues and they cannot understand what you're saying. So because God says your young men shall prophesy and dream dreams, you know? But they look at that verse so literally that they're actually thinking of dreams and visions. So you're speaking in an unknown tongue right now, and they cannot make out what you're saying, even though you're reading the Bible carefully, comparing it openly and speaking slowly. It's like you're speaking in tongues. They just can't hear it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07

With with Isaiah 60, um, it's interesting too, because if it's it's verse two, and Chris, I know you've talked about the sport before where it says, Before behold, darkness shall cover the earth, and just all the verses you've tied that in with being it's it's a darkness.

SPEAKER_05

Why don't you read from verse one, Carl, through like four?

SPEAKER_07

Okay. So verse one, arise, shine, for thy light is come, and the glory of Jehovah is risen upon thee. For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, in gross darkness the people. But Jehovah shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee, and the Gentiles shall come to thy light, in kings to the brightness of thy rising. Lift up thine eyes round about round about and see, all they gather themselves together, they come to thee, thy son shall come from afar, from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side. So yeah, I was just thinking about uh that just in light of this topic, it's actually kind of starting to click a little more with me that they're coming to light. That means they're coming to understanding, right? If the world is under darkness, they're well it says thy light is come.

SPEAKER_05

So we know Christ is the light.

SPEAKER_04

And judgment, right?

SPEAKER_05

He's come, and and we uh it's kind of a mystery, um, or how do you solve the puzzle that the sun's dark and the moon does not give its light, the stars fall, so the gospel lights are out, but the light is come, and uh in Revelation 18 it says in right at the time uh Babylon's fallen in verse one, and after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power, and the earth was lightened with his glory. And the word lighten is the same as enlightened back in Ephesians 1 18. So the the earth is lightened, next verse says Babylon the great has fallen, has fallen. And and so it's with the people of God, the elect, the great within the great multitude, eventually, hopefully, um uh arise, shine for thy light is come, and the glory of Jehovah is risen upon thee, which I think would be the body of Christ, the elect. For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth. And and again, think people, people not, you know, literal darkness. And and just look at um um it wasn't that long ago, it's kind of died down a little bit, but not knowing which bathroom to go to. You know, the the uh darkness of understanding having to do with gay marriage. Never before in the history of the world, but after, you know, especially after May 21, 2011, the world's experience a lot, the church had been experiencing a lot of darkness of understanding in doctrine and gospel over the course of their judgment period, the 23 years. And then after May 21, 2011, the focus shifted to the world, and all of a sudden they lose sight of basic morality to a great degree, and they're stumbling around themselves, unable to comprehend just just the law written upon their hearts for for uh basic living in the world. So the darkness shall cover the earth and gross darkness the people. And and that, you know, this darkness and gross darkness, if we look at Zephaniah 1.15 to show it is judgment day. In Zephaniah 1, it because uh God God uses that in a few places. Uh verse 14 the great day of Jehovah is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of Jehovah, the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, day of darkness and thick darkness, also in um Joel two Joel two in verse two, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness. And the the context there is judgment day in Amos um Amos five eighteen, I think it's there. Let me let me check that Amos five eighteen, woe unto you that desire the day of Jehovah to what No, it doesn't say thick darkness there, it just says the day of Jehovah is darkness and not light. But the darkness and thick darkness in Isaiah 60, the darkness shall cover the earth and gross darkness the people, but Jehovah shall rise upon thee, upon thee, he'll arise upon the elect, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. So it it's the elect who will be enlightened that his glory will become seen, and we don't know exactly how that is, maybe just because the saints will judge the world and we're going forth with the the information at this time, and and yet the Gentiles shall come to thy light and kings to the brightness of thy rising. Uh, it would be to Christ, but as Christ shows forth these things, I think, within his people, that will draw, that will attract the great multitude.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, go back to Amos 5 real fast, verses 20. That doesn't say thick darkness, but it says, Shall not the day of Jehovah be darkness and not light, even very dark and no brightness in it. I thought that was actually kind of interesting, just in light of comparing that with Isaiah, because there is a thick darkness, but but here it's saying uh and not light, and even very dark, and no brightness in it.

SPEAKER_03

I'm I'm starting to think that when when God says thick darkness or very dark, I think it's pointing to of the the day of judgment, or at least the beginning of the day of judgment. Look at Exodus chapter ten, verse twenty-one to twenty three. That's Exodus ten, verse twenty-one to twenty-three. And Jehovah said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt. So it's like a it's like a darkness with a multiplier. And I looked at that word felt. It's only used once. The root word has a lot to do with like groping in darkness, and also uh feeling for or stretching through.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, when they're trying to find the door, that's what they're doing. They're like where is it?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's the same word for grope or time. Exactly. So when you're there's a picture of uh like a darkness multiplier, I think it's it's like the very dark or the thick dark or darkness where there's groping or feeling around. It's a specific time that God is like pointing to. Verse 22, and Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven, and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days. They saw not one another, neither rose any from his place for three days. Three days is judgment. Yeah. Yeah. But all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.

SPEAKER_05

I wonder how that worked historically. I mean, it's true historically. Uh I it must be true historically that they had light in their dwellings and the Egyptians are in the dark. But but of course, spiritually, it it means within. It means and Israel here would be the elect in the day of judgment in that in that darkness, that thick darkness that's out there in the world. That's where the light is. It's not uh this is the way God can say the lights are out, but there's a light. The spiritual lights shining on the world are out. No more gospel, but the people of God have light within. And that's what Isaiah 60 was saying. The light will arise upon thee. And and it will it will be, you know, we we know that spirit within, well, it's the spirit of Christ, it's the spirit of light that the child of God has, and and he, the spirit is opening up our eyes of understanding, so that we see the revelation of the righteous judgment of God and we share it. We're declaring it. So it it's really the work of the light of the spirit that God has given us that that is getting the information out there. And uh, and and yet it there's this darkness, this darkness that that is in the whole world, everywhere on earth. There's there's no light of the gospel of any kind, but they may see at some point like a track team walking down a street having having um the light of understanding, you know, and written form in the track and sharing it. And anyone, anyone out there who's one of that great multitude might be drawn to that, they will come to thee. They'll come the to the light that arises upon thee.

SPEAKER_07

And are they really coming to understanding, right? Because as the light, you know, we were just talking about how being in the kingdom of light, there's understanding. But maybe because they're in the they're not in darkness as they're on not in the sense that they're unsaved, but they're in a world that has a thick darkness. And so then that light is also understanding, right? Coming to understanding.

SPEAKER_05

What we've noticed, and we've talked about before how you see people who are, you know, being baptized and talking about annihilation. They're they're uh in the world, the world's in darkness. And they're kind of reaching out. They're reaching out, uh, looking for the answer, looking for the door. And um we can hope that maybe some of them are elect, but but for the most part, they're reaching out to the church. And and the church doesn't have the answer, they're in darkness. They're reaching out to this religion and that religion, and those religions are in darkness. So um they're they're wandering about, basically.

SPEAKER_03

And just to give a quick quick qualifier, in Ephesians 6, it says um, verse 11 to 13, put on the whole armor of God that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil, for we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities. And that word principalities has to do with the beginning, like Reuben, the churches, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world. And I was thinking about the rulers of the darkness of this world against spiritual wickedness in high places. So it's like God defines what the rulers of the darkness of this world, as we were talking about darkness and lies, the rulers of the lies of this world. You know, if you substitute the word darkness for false teaching or false understanding.

SPEAKER_07

Look at this verse, Gary. This is this ties back to what you talked about with the darkness being felt, Job 12, 25. It's the same word. It says they grope in dark without light. That word grope is the same word felt. Uh and he maketh them stagger like a drunken man. So again, going back earlier, like drunk. Yeah, yeah. They're like they're like being drunk.

SPEAKER_05

And then also And another gospel, it points the you know. So they they're they're in another gospel which is not the truth, so it's not the true light, they're in darkness.

SPEAKER_07

And also when when Babylon is given the cup, right? They're given the cup to drink wine. And wine gets you drunk, right? Isn't that the idea with the remember God says you shall indeed drink?

SPEAKER_03

That's right. Didn't the young man drink of the wrath? Yeah, in Proverbs 7, wasn't there a young man void of understanding in the black and dark night where the harlot came and and and caught him and kissed him? So you know, there's so much language.

SPEAKER_05

And darkness, uh it of course is tied to night. Genesis 1, uh, it said in verse 5, and God called the light day, and the darkness he called night. So when uh Jesus said in John 9, I must work the works of him, I must I must work the works of him that sent me while it is day, for the night comes the darkness. The darkness comes when no man can work, and it must be, you know, uh the darkening of the gospel lights, no work of salvation can be performed at that time, which is our our present time period. We do have two hands raised.

SPEAKER_03

Carl, do you want to take um Yeah?

SPEAKER_07

I just want to quickly point this out because Bob brought this up. He says they they drink of the wrath of God, and I and I just there's something just kind of clicked. Um remember in Romans how it says the wrath of God is revealed from heaven. So the wrath of God is is can be giving somebody over to their sins, right? Or to the darkness. So they're they're that I think they'll tie in.

SPEAKER_04

But uh let me get the first caller.

SPEAKER_02

Blessings, my brethren and the Lord Jesus Christ. Um I have a comment first about this topic. Um darkness, light versus darkness. It reminds me of a ministry. Uh they called their ministry light in darkness, I think. And how I came to know about it was uh a friend of e Bible who used to listen faithfully, devo devoutly to e-Bible and then eventually uh you know, I don't know if that's a sign of apostasy or not, but now she is with a ministry, this ministry called uh light and darkness. So I asked her, do they believe that today is judgment day, that we're on judgment day? She said yes. And um I said uh do they believe in the biblical calendar or the biblical time uh timeline of history? So apparently not and she's told me that the uh ministry believes that their members well ebablo fellowship do not does not have membership, but they do have membership. They believe their members the uh are the the hundred and forty-four thousand mentioned in uh revelation. Now my other quest, my that's my comment, but Acts 12.4. I started seeing the gospel in Acts 12.4 focusing on the word uh Passover instead of Easter. I started seeing the gospel uh you know uh that the Lord had Peter played out, okay, in Acts 12.4 to maybe ten. I don't know where to start.

SPEAKER_05

Well, that's a little bit too much for us to read in this program. Okay. Um and and also does this have to do with light and darkness?

SPEAKER_02

The well, the correct understanding me being light is what that would open up anything in the Bible, I think, too. Because because with the word Esther, you don't get light from it, but Passover Well what what's your question about it?

SPEAKER_05

What is your question?

SPEAKER_02

Don't we ought to see the gospel when the uh correct word, the original word it was is Passover in Acts 12? Don't we being uh represented uh by Peter as elect, okay? Don't don't Christ have to be our Passover before our chain is broken? And that's what happened. He was he he was to be released after Passover from jail and but then the angel of the Lord came and broke his chain and then how he that was how he got out.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, so there's a there's a spiritual there's a spiritual picture there that yeah, with the word Passover, not Easter. Well, uh of course it it's the Greek word that Password. Uh it's the word Passover that is translated Easter, and um it has a spiritual picture that is pretty complex and involved, and and it it's not uh this program's not the setting for answering that question. Um why don't you call in to the open forum during the week um and and bring this up? Okay?

SPEAKER_02

Yes, but it's my turn. Thank you.

SPEAKER_07

All right, thank you. And the next uh next caller, Lynn's laptop.

SPEAKER_01

Good evening, guys.

SPEAKER_04

Good evening.

SPEAKER_01

Can we look up can we go back to um Amos Psalm 518?

SPEAKER_05

518?

SPEAKER_01

Do you want me to read that? Pardon me?

SPEAKER_05

Did you say eighteen?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, one eight.

SPEAKER_05

Okay. That says, Woe unto you that desire the day of Jehovah, to what end is it for you the day of Jehovah is darkness and not light?

SPEAKER_01

Can can we say that the darkness, the day of the Jehovah, which is darkness, the darkness is talking about the darkness of judgment day, and and the light says um is talking about the light of the gospel, you know, w um before um or or during um the the um great tribulation.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. Um for example, I think this is what you mean in Isaiah um Isaiah forty two. Isaiah forty two verse seven to open the blind eyes to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. And so the light of the gospel delivered the prisoner and also from the darkness to the light, translated from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light in judgment day, the day of Jehovah, which is judgment day, is darkness. And we we we can look at it that um you know from two perspectives. One, the gospel lights are out because God has completed his salvation, so there's no more shining of the word unto salvation, no more um evangelization of the earth. It requires the light of the gospel to save. God has put that light out all over the world, and the darkness in man. So that that's why it kind of um becomes like a thick darkness, because men are already in darkness, and it was the light shining in darkness that that um that was the only light. That was the only light. So when God puts out the light of the gospel, now spiritually the world's in darkness, and mankind, unsaved mankind, remains in darkness, so it is a tragedy and it is awful for them. But as we were reading with some of the other verses, like the one in Exodus, that the Israelites had light in their dwelling. So the the people of God left on the earth, alive and remaining, to go through the dark period, this this um uh a grievous uh period of time of judgment day that is likened to the day of Jehovah is darkness and not light, yet within we have the light. We have the light, and when we we are um granted understanding, we share it. Others who have the light can perceive it and receive it. Uh whereas those in darkness, it won't do them any good because God's not shining. Say when we share the truth, it's judgment day, the door shut, you know, all the many things we've been learning, that will not help, even though truth and light identify, and we're sharing truth, which is sharing light, only those who already have the light will be able to uh properly respond, and and it'll it'll be received as light by them as their their understanding is opened up.

SPEAKER_03

If you don't mind, can you hold that comment? We're just going to just pause at this point. We're going to say goodbye for today's Bible exalted program for our radio listeners. However, our program's going to continue for a bonus half an hour, and you can join us at www.ebiblefellowship.org, where you click on the join zoom button to tune into the program. But for now, we're going to say goodbye to our radio listeners. Welcome back, and thank you for listening to tonight's Bible Exalted Program. Our discussion tonight is light and darkness. Darkness and light, or light versus darkness. We have our beloved three panel speakers, Bob Grandy, Chris McCann, and Carl von Haringa. We're taking a question from one of our dear listeners, and please continue.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, um am I still on? Yes. Yes, you are.

SPEAKER_01

I forgot what I was gonna ask you until me and my thoughts went away. No, I think I was saying that um it's because the uh because um the the elect have the the light of Christ um within with within you know through um on which they have um acquired um true salvation, that's why it is that they're you know they're able to um in this time of judgment they to to be able to still understand you know the teachings of the Bible because of that light that is um shining from within. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_05

Uh yeah, yeah. Uh and it's why we expect um that great multitude when they hear the truth to respond to it. That's what Isaiah 60, you know, that Carl has referred to a couple of times. That's what Isaiah 60, I think, is saying, that they will come, they will come. The the light is arisen upon thee, they will come, they will come, you know, throughout that chapter. And and um it it is um it is when they hear the truth, uh, of course, in God's timing, God's timing for it. Um we we don't know everything that he's doing, I think, at this point, but we expect that at some point uh this message will be widely spread to the people of the world, and and it will reach the ears of that great multitude that's out there, and they they will respond.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_05

Thank you. Yeah, thank you for calling.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, Chris, you were talking about how Christ will come and and the light and you know, bring the light. Uh the light is uh shining. Well, Isaiah 60, um uh uh that you referred to and and Carl. In in uh I think Revelation 21 is a good uh complementary verse to that idea in uh verse 22 to 25. It says, And I saw no temple therein, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it, and the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved, that's that we've learned that those nations that that's talking about the elect, the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it. And that would have to include um you know, all of those that uh were saved during the Great Tribulation that you're talking about, you know, hopefully uh the Lord is working to draw them to himself. And um then it says, and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honor into it, and the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day, for there shall be no night there. No darkness.

SPEAKER_07

When it says uh there's no needs no need to the sun or the moon. I just that just kind of dawned on me that uh need for it because it was dark. Dark, because they're all darkened, right?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07

On Judgment Day. But yet, even though they've been darkened, there's no need for them because Christ is is lighting.

SPEAKER_05

Everyone to be saved has been saved, so no need no more evangelizing no more evangelization, like people are saying.

SPEAKER_07

Wow, yeah, I don't know why that just that just clicked with me. I didn't I'd never noticed that before.

SPEAKER_03

You know, there's there's a Bible verse where God says, For thou wilt light my candle. And interestingly enough, God says he will remove the candlestick from the churches if they are not faithful. So you can see how God will light the candle of understanding for God's people, and he will remove his candlestick for those who were caretakers of the Bible who were unfaithful. So he's gonna remove their understanding, and their foolish heart was darkened. So God talks about the foolish heart being darkened, and the foolish heart.

SPEAKER_05

Where's that at, Gary? You know?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's a good verse. I believe it's Romans 1. Oh, yeah, okay. So their foolish hearts were darkened.

SPEAKER_07

That's a very good verse for this subject. Yeah. Romans 1 21.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so so the fool or the foolish heart is darkened, the wise, they have light. So then now you can uh God has given us like uh like a transition from the five wise and the five foolish. Because the the Holy Spirit, which is the oil, gives you the the fuel to light the candle. Psalm. For God's word is a lamp, a light, a lamp and a light. So it's like a pathway.

SPEAKER_06

Psalm 18, Gary, in uh verse 29. For thou wilt light my candle. Jehovah my God will enlighten my darkness. That's right.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. It's like, it's like I tell you, I'm so amazed by the the connective tissue that God has in the Bible. It's so interwoven and it just takes you on a journey of truth, understanding that the the true believer rejoices and is comforted and is amazed by the the uh complementary nature of the Bible, you know.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, I know right it even writer could have done set it up that way. Impossible.

SPEAKER_06

It's ever done a thousand-piece jigsaw positive. This is like this is like a uh I don't have the patience for that.

SPEAKER_05

500 is my limit.

SPEAKER_03

It works. You ever read a verse and you just say it over and over again, like one of the callers uh at the QA said, In thy light we see light, or righteousness and peace have kissed each other. And you think of these just beautiful statements that are just so well, it's perfect. You know, God is perfect, and He's given us perfect words to read. And even in these sin-cursed bodies, you can really meditate on just the verse and and how how glorious it is.

SPEAKER_05

That's the witness that the Bible's true, that it everything fits. Over 1500 years, all kinds of different men wrote it, should be a mess. It should be like so many things in the world are a mess. And and yet you go here a little, there a little, and and everything fits in like that piece of a puzzle. Well, that was all uh um uh I wanted to read about the candle in Revelation 18, because we're not far away, Revelation 21, concerning Babylon, which would be the world, because it's fallen, the kingdom of Satan, and God says in verse 22, and the voice harpers and musicians and of pipers and trumpeters shall be heard no more at all in thee, and no craftsman of whatsoever craft he be shall be found any more in thee, and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee, and the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee, and the voice of the bridegroom and the bridegroom's Christ, his voice would be his word, the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee, for thy merchants were the great men of the earth, for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. So the light of the candle will not shine, and that is the same as the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride will not be heard. Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God. If Christ's voice is not heard, if the voice of the elect were the bride carrying. The message of the Bible is not heard? Faith will not come. And that is equivalent to the light of the candle will shine no more at all in thee. And we've come to that time. We've been in that time for 15 years now.

SPEAKER_07

There's a similar verse, but I know that in one day. The similar verse is uh I think it's an Isaiah, but I know it's talking about the churches, but it it has a very similar right? You know what I'm talking about? It talks about it. Is it Jeremiah? Maybe it's Jeremiah. It has very similar language, but it says the light of the candle shines no more, but you know it has to be judgment on the churches. Yeah. For this one, we know it's the world because of Babylon's fall. So someone might confuse the two, but also uh Well well, same cup of wrath, spiritual judgment on both. Yeah. Well, I notice it says, For by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. Remember how Satan went out to deceive the four corners of the earth and God, yeah. Yeah, and he was bound at the cross so that he would so that he could not deceive the nations until he was loosed. But that's what makes me wonder if he was rebound, if that deceptive, you know, if he can't no longer do that with the sorceries.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up because I believe in Revelation 16 the throne of the beast was covered in darkness. And what I'm finding is the darkness that the wrath that came upon those in Sodom and Gomorrah and the darkness which could be felt, it's as if Satan is groping and cannot complete uh his to his effect that he would like to. It's as if all the fallen angels, the beast, the false prophet, along with unsaved man, they're all groping right now. Which means there's an attempt to Satan, he's he it appears he's attempting to to uh try to harm or or or destroy, but I I believe he's groping at this time because his throne was was covered in darkness in Revelation 16. It appears he's groping right now, possibly.

SPEAKER_07

Well, consider when the the Red Sea crossing, remember how the Egyptians first pursued the Israelites? But then it got to a point where they couldn't really do it much longer because their chariot wheels are troubled.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_07

Right? There's getting stuck in the mud, and then it got to the point where they said, let's flee, because God's fighting on their behalf. So maybe it's kind of getting to that point where they realize this is fruitless, let's get out of here.

SPEAKER_05

Because obviously God Well, it's always been a kingdom of darkness. That that's the odd thing about the statement, right? He he's always been in darkness himself because he's a liar and and uh he he never had light. I mean, after the fall, after his fall. Um but that's but it's not a judgment curse. It's his kingdom. It's at Revelation 16, 10. His kingdom was full of darkness. So pouring out the vial of the wrath of God on the seed of the beast, you're deposed, you're put down, and his kingdom is full of darkness. That's that's the world, that's all the nations, that's the darkness we've been talking about immediately after the tribulation. All the lights go out, and the spiritual lights go out, and all the unsaved in his kingdom are already in darkness, but now, you know, there is there is something, like, let's think about the church. The church was full of wheat and tares, mostly tares, for a long time, but they did have light, they had the spirit of Christ in the midst. But once the light goes out, once the spirit of Christ departed, and Revelation 8 tells us, you know, the third part of the sun and moon and stars was darkened when the Spirit of Christ departed from the church, then we see that there is an impact on the terrorists, the unsaved within the congregations. They started going way off course, um, much further off course than those in the churches had ever done before when the judgment of spiritual darkness was upon them. And so in the world, yes, the world's always been in darkness, but the light shined into the darkness, and now no light is shining into the darkness from God, from the kingdom, and we see the world going even into greater darkness and going into even crazier understandings of things and just um supreme ignorance of things. How can people not understand this? It's such a basic thing. So what Amor says so it's full of darkness. So very quickly.

SPEAKER_07

No darkness. Oh, go ahead, Gary.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, but very quickly, could the darkness be evil wickedness, or is it a combination of darkness being evil, or also darkness of groping where they they cannot get, they cannot find what they're what they're looking for?

SPEAKER_05

Or is it a combination of Yeah, I I think it's a combo a combination of um a lot of that that and then at the same time, you know, the Lord's lifting his hand of restraint, and so the evil within the dark heart is being exposed, and what comes out of a dark heart? Darkness. And and so the sins that people are involved in. Why is it that when you hear of things done today, they're so horrific? And you think nothing could be more horrific, and then next week you hear something even more horrific. And I know, you know, people say, Oh, the world's always been like this. Well, no, I don't think it has been. Yes, the heart of man's always been like that, but past generations, they would have their outbreaks of wickedness and individuals or in war and things like that, but nothing like this that we see so commonly, and it's that heart coming to the surface without any rest, or I won't say any restraint, but less and less restraint uh by God's hand. And and so yeah, that definitely gives atmosphere to the thick darkness. It it's a whole combination of things.

SPEAKER_07

Wasn't a war started in in Judges when when that horrific incident happened with the woman? You know, wasn't there an event?

SPEAKER_05

Well, that that was uh within Israel.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, so that was basically teaching us about the judgment of God on the church.

SPEAKER_07

Right, but just to show how, just on a historical level, you know, when something horrific like that happened, it was it was obviously an unusual situation and it prompted, you know, a battle, right?

SPEAKER_05

Well, yeah, and I remember Mr. Camping talking about Rome, uh, where people always, you know, Rome has this reputation, the the the uh Empire of Rome, you know, for terrible uh debauchery. And yet then he he would go to some verses like in Acts, and and they're they're uh the Romans, the Centurions, they're speaking of their law. They're they're really people of a law that were following law in many ways, uh that that doesn't line up with that idea. Right. Yeah, I remember that.

SPEAKER_07

There's uh go ahead, Bob.

SPEAKER_06

No, I was just gonna say uh a little bit of a change of uh topic, but I wonder how, you know, in light of this next verse I'm gonna look at, how the idea of, you know, okay, people go to hell and then they, you know, they're there and there's fire uh forever and ever and ever, which would be light, right? Uh and but you know, there's I I'm sure there's other verses too, but this one in particular I was looking at in Jude. Um I lost it. Uh oh, um, yeah, talking about the unsaved, raging waves of the sea, foaming out their shame, their own shame, wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. So they're not gonna have any light or you know, fire. I mean, this is God's mercy. We've learned that He's He's merciful in judgment, and that there is no there is no uh eternal consciousness uh of being tortured in a place called hell.

SPEAKER_07

God just ends it with annihilation and a teacher one time say um that you know, because somebody had asked him about hell, he said, well, on one hand you have verses about outer darkness, and on the other hand, which I was surprised he was even comparing scriptures, and then on the other hand, you had it says, you know, people think it's gonna be a burning pit. So he saw the contradiction, what appeared to be a contradiction.

SPEAKER_06

That was who?

SPEAKER_07

Uh it was it was at that cliff connectly. I guess he's a pastor. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I I want to go to a verse before we close. Um wanting to talk about this. Isaiah five. Isaiah five, it says in Isaiah 5 verse 20. 20, yeah. Woe unto them that call evil good and good evil, that put darkness for light and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter. Just um this idea of putting darkness for light and light for darkness, that it would have to be you know, truth, or or how's it start with the first one? Darkness for putting a lie for the truth. And no, no, what's that? They call evil good, evil good. Yeah, they put darkness for light. Okay, so Christ is the light, Christ is the truth. They put a wrong doctrine, they put a lie for Christ and light for darkness. So then they speak evil of the actual truth, that that is not of God, that that's heresy, you're a cult, you know. So they'll they'll take darkness because they're basically creatures of darkness, their heart condition is darkness, all they know is darkness. And they say this darkness, my understanding, must be light. And then when they hear the actual truth, the light of the word, no, that's not true. Because I tell you the truth, Jesus said you believe me not. So they don't believe it. It has to be something else. It can't be Christ is slain as the Lamb of God from the foundational world. It must be my understanding, the traditional understanding of it, and so forth. So I I just wanted to mention that verse.

SPEAKER_06

So you dance.

SPEAKER_07

Well, it's dark, they can't tell the light from the darkness.

SPEAKER_06

You know, Chris, like a lot of times you talk about, you know, with the uh the trans transsexual and the uh you know the uh men marrying men and all that, it's a new morality that um you know that we must we must obey and or else we're we're canceled, you know. Wow. Wow. It's putting darkness for light and light for darkness.

SPEAKER_05

You're you're an evildoer if you're against it. Right. You're not a good broken the commandment. Right, and it is. It's very much they're putting up a new law. You must keep this law. Well, what about the law of God, the Bible, that says a man marries a woman, one husband of one wife. No, that's wrong. That's bad. So, yeah, that that would be a good example. Of course, the churches do vi you know, that that would be secular society, but the churches they do this all over the place with doctrine and gospels.

SPEAKER_07

I I get on atheists sometimes for that because they're atheists and yet they it's almost like their own religion, you know, giving out commands. You know, you call them by their pronoun or whatever.

SPEAKER_03

It's like they have their own to themselves.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah. So you you know they're they have a problem with the law of God in religion. But yet they've kind of created their own religion, you know. And if you disobey their law, there's punishment. And a and a bad one at that.

SPEAKER_03

It's a horrible religion.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah. This is uh this is uh back to Isaiah 60 real fast, and I only have a few minutes left. That that word uh uh verses three, it says in kings to the brightness of thy rising. I was trying to figure out what that means, the rising part. And I looked up the word and it's only it there's only one strong number for it. But if you look at the uh root word, so in other words, if you drop the vowels, it's it has the same exact word. So it appears like it's only used once, right? But it's the same exact vowels, I mean same exact Hebrew letters. And it's used uh eight times as arise, another six times as rise, shine and up.

SPEAKER_05

And uh let's see it's the same word earlier, right? The the uh verse two, arise upon thee. I don't it's the same. Well it's twenty uh from what you're saying if you move it's twenty-two twenty-four arise, right where rising is twenty-two twenty-five, so it would be right next to each other. It's similar, yeah.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was just trying to figure out what that what that means when uh is that Christ arising?

SPEAKER_05

Well, the Gentiles shall come to thy light and kings to the brightness of thy rising, and that does tie in with uh what Bob read in Revelation 21. The kings will come into the fullness of New Jerusalem, right? New Jerusalem descending down from above, and and God gives the measurements 12, 12, 12, fullness, fullness, fullness. Everyone to be saved has been saved, but then we're reading the nations of them which are saved will walk in the light of it, and and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. Why? Why, if if the city itself, if everyone to be saved is a part of that city, who are these that are entering into it at the end of Revelation 21? And and it's only when you understand, oh, everyone to be saved, the fullness of the city is complete. Therefore, it's descending, it's in process, and then uh the drawing, all the elect that were saved out of the great tribulation, enter in um to to the city with that they're already, you know, spiritually a part of.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, I was just trying to figure out when I see rising, I I think of the resurrection, but of course that's the last day. So I was trying to figure out what to the brightness of thy rising, what is if that's referring to Christ, or is that referring to remember Ezekiel 37? It talks about um uh they're they're coming up out of their graves.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07

It's not a literal resurrection, but like a spiritual one. But I yeah, I just didn't know if you knew what that means. What it what is that right?

SPEAKER_05

Well, well, do you have those other verses that you said there was eight verses?

SPEAKER_07

Yeah. Uh one is uh Genesis 32 31, when it talks about uh Penuel, the sun rose upon him. If the sun be risen, that's Exodus 22. Um uh Deuteronomy 33, 2. Uh-uh says Jehovah came from Sinai and rose up from Seir unto them. He shined forth from Mount Peron, and he came at ten thousand of his saints.

SPEAKER_05

Where's that Deuteronomy 33?

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, 33 2.

SPEAKER_05

Because that identifies with the word of God. Jehovah came from Sinai, Sinai the law of God's given. He rose up, so that's the word from Sierre unto them, he shined forth. Uh I wonder if that's the same word also. He rose up, he shined, like in Isaiah 60. He shined forth from Mount Peran, and he came with ten thousands of saints. Judgment Day, the elect are the saints, and and he's he's coming from the law. He's coming from, you know, uh Christ coming in the clouds. So it's arising up in the Bible, and from his right hand went a fiery law for them. The revelation of the righteous judgment of God, the Bible's on fire. Yeah, he loved the people, all his saints are in thy hand. So this is this is telling us, just like Jude, Christ comes with ten thousands of his saints, it's judgment day, and then he loved the people, all his saints are in thy hand, and they sat down at thy feet, everyone shall receive of thy words. How can that possibly be in this context? How could it be sitting down at God's feet, and just like Mary in Luke 10 or Luke 9 sat at the feet of Christ, hearing his word. So it's it's feeding, you know, the elect, hearing the word, and it's rising from the law. So it's it's coming from the Bible, I think, would be the answer for Isaiah 60.

SPEAKER_07

Well, Moses, it's notice it says this is a blessing where Moses, the man of God, blessed the children of Israel before his death. Remember, he died in it his 120th year. That's the end of a 40-year, the 40-year wilderness sojourn. I don't know if there's a anything. What what are some of those other verses? Do you uh another one would be um I think I gave you Genesis 32, 31, talking about Penuel, the sun rose upon him.

SPEAKER_04

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05

That's when he wrestled with God, right?

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

At the breaking of the day. Breaking of the day ties in with judgment.

SPEAKER_07

Okay. Judges 9 3 and it shall be 9 33, and it shall be that in the morning, as soon as the sun is up, thou shalt rise early and set upon the city. And behold, when he and the people that is with thee come out against thee, thou mayest do to them as thou shalt find occasion. I forget which battle that is. Um 2 Samuel 23 4. Wanna read that one? Yeah. Good one.

SPEAKER_05

Uh oh, you want me to read? I thought do you want me to read? Um 2 Samuel 23, 4.

SPEAKER_04

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05

And he shall be as the light of the morning, the rock of Israel, and he shall be as the light of the morning when the sun riseth, even a morning without clouds as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain.

SPEAKER_07

And then you have uh first Kings three twenty-two. I can read this one. And they rose up early in the morning, and the sun shone upon the water, and the Mo Moabites saw the water on the other side as red as blood. That's when the water turned to blood. Uh, with that the army became afraid, I think, when they saw that. First Kings? That's uh second Kings three, verses twenty-two.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Uh well I think that Deuteronomy one was most helpful.

SPEAKER_07

That was a good one. Yeah, Psalm 104 might be another good one. Uh and and um I'll I'll read these two. Psalm 104. The sun ariseth, they gather themselves together and they lay down in their dens. In Psalms 112, verse 4. Upon the upright there ariseth light in the darkness. He is gracious and full of compassion and righteous. That's Psalms 112, verse 4.

SPEAKER_05

Speaking of light in the darkness, that reminds me of Micah. Might be a good verse to close on, where it says in Micah 7.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, verses 8 and 9.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Verse 8 Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy, when I fall, I shall arise. When I sit in darkness, Jehovah shall be a light unto me. I will bear the indignation of Jehovah, because I have sinned again. Against him, until he plead my cause and execute judgment for me, he will bring me forth to the light, and I shall behold his righteousness.

SPEAKER_07

By the way, that Psalms 112, verse 4 actually seems really fitting. So we just talked about how there's darkness, and it's saying, Upon the upright there shall arise light in the darkness. And of course, Isaiah 60 is mentioned there. Oh, um Isaiah 58, verse 10 is another mention. Uh Jonah, so mention of Jonah. Jonah? We're not in Jonah. Jonah 4 verses 8.

SPEAKER_04

What's that saying?

SPEAKER_07

And it came to pass when the sun did arise, that's the word, that God prepared a vehement east wind, and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted and wished himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live. And uh there's only two more. I may as well read these. Nahem three seventeen, thy crowned are as the locusts, and thy captains as the great hot grasshoppers, which camp in the hedges in the cold day, but when the sun ariseth they flee away, and their place is not known where they are. And Malachi four verse two But unto ye that fear my name shall the son of righteousness arise with healing in his wings, and ye shall go forth and grow up as calves of the stall.

SPEAKER_05

That's judgment day, isn't it? It says in Malachi four, verse one, For behold the day cometh, it shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly shall be stubble, and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith Jehovah of Hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch, but unto you that fear my name shall the Son of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings, and ye shall go forth and grow up as calves of the stall, and ye shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith Jehovah of Hosts. So it's describing judgment day, and all the unsaved are burned, but few men left, and the few that are left, they will arise with healing in his wings and go forth and tread down the wicked. Um saints will judge the world.

SPEAKER_07

But they're growing up as calves of the stall.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I don't understand that. I don't know what that means.

SPEAKER_07

Remember in Isaiah 60, they're nursed. They're uh that just maybe think of I don't know, calves are like baby Maybe they're safely kept, you know, calves of the stall. And also, yeah, feeding lambs and feeding sheep. Maybe maybe they're uh they there's a growth process.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Well, this has been a a great uh topic, light and dark, darkness versus light. Um any more comments to to share with that? I think that's enough uh feeding on such a great topic. Well, we've all together come to the end of this program, the Bible Exalted. It's really a privilege and a pleasure to be with you all. We hope that you've been edified and encouraged and comforted with the Bible verses that were presented tonight. Please tell your friends uh for conversation. You can uh have a comment or a question. And until next time, friends, may the Lord richly bless you as we are living in this day of judgment. Good night. You've just heard a pre recording of an e Bible Fellowship panel discussion.