Larissa Wollard: A Middle Name Called Joy and Letting Laundry Wait

What does it look like to live up to your middle name? Larissa Wollard joins the show to talk about the dad who named her Joy, the unrealistic expectations she puts on herself, and the laundry she absolutely does not need to fold tonight.

We get into the way her dad explained her middle name (there is so little joy in the world, we wanted you to bring it), the documentary moment when Tom Brady's parents said the world is going to tear him down, our job is to build him up, and the discipline of staying soft in work that involves hard conversations. Larissa also opens up about being an Enneagram three, the people in her life who tell her to stop folding laundry and go enjoy a weekend in the car with her husband, and why getting comfortable with parts of her job would be the day she should quit.

It's a conversation about the difference between reflecting and ruminating, why pursuing your self-worth from something steady might be the only way to keep choosing joy when life keeps trying to steal it, and the slow truth that you can't love in a hurry.

Plus: the imaginary HOA Matt is trying to get a warning from, the slow bleed theory of gambling, and a closing two-word philosophy on how to actually live every day.

Follow us today for some weekly joy.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hey, welcome back. This is a Fiercer Delight. I'm Matt, and this is the show where we just kind of chased around joy and happiness and just through conversation learn about people and our world and ourselves. And so today I'm joined by a guest named That's your part. What's your name?

SPEAKER_00 0:17

Larissa Wallard. What say your name again? Larissa Wallard.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Wallard. Uh-huh. I think I've always called you Wallard.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Uh everyone does. It's fine. We don't correct anybody.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Where's it from? Why it's an O.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Yeah, who knows? Yeah, who knows? Um, my maiden name is Baker. You should have kept the maiden name.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

A double K Baker.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Double K, but it's better than Wallard that's spelled wrong. It's true, that's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Okay, well, since we're on weird things to say, um, this just popped in my head. The person who like um defends someone who's done a crime or something. Sometimes they're called attorney. What's the other word for that?

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Prosecutor?

SPEAKER_01 0:56

No, the no. It starts like with an L.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

The person that defends the.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

What's that word? The guy who practices.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

The lawyer?

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Say it again.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Lawyer?

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Lawyer. I say lawyer.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

I thought you were gonna like go down this rabbit hole of something really tricky. I thought you were trying to drink me.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

So you say lawyer, it's kind of like the Wallard Wallard. Uh-huh. Because it's you don't practice the lawyer. You practice the law. I've always said lawyer, but then I get eviscerated when I say lawyer. Like I have a certain friend who's always getting on me about saying lawyer, but it is a lawyer. They practice the law. But you say lawyer. Most people say lawyer.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Yeah. See, I don't correct people in those scenarios. It's just like, you know what, you say what you want to say. I'll just go ahead and take that as truth. It's all good.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Trevor Burrus, Jr. I've run into some. My wife has a few uh we'll call them peccadillos. She has a few things that she says. Like one of them is iron? She doesn't say iron. She says iron.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

And then hammock?

unknown 1:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

She says hammock.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Yeah. I don't that the iron one I might say, uh, come again.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

But the hammock one, I'd be like, yeah, that's fine. You can say it however you want.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

I was like 10 years in before I said something. I was like, are you just like trolling me? Or is that and it didn't actually end well. So I think your area of like expertise that you're offering is just let it roll.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

It's probably Yeah, just let it roll.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Good in marriage, good in life. Yeah. Um so life, I wanted to talk to you about all kinds of things. Um, partly what makes you feel joyful or happy, but I wanted to frame this in you have kind of a strange job. Okay. So I think you work at a company, a big company, and you hire a ton of people, and then also you help people exit sometimes. And so that's like I think it's heavy on both ends for different reasons, and there's a lot to that. So where do you find sort of in that? I'm projecting maybe it's easy for you, but where do you kind of find recharge and refuge and having hard conversations or tricky ones or meeting these quotas and having to hire a ton of people and getting tons of stuff said to you and trying to figure it all out? Like you're you're moving a lot of pieces.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

So where's rest for you? Where's the part where it's like I can do it tomorrow?

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Um, it's funny, you know, when you say I have a weird job, I've never thought about it that way. Um, but yeah, when you are a part of bringing people on and then a part of people exiting, you kind of see both worlds and both sides, um, the excitement and the hurt all together. And I've always said this um if I ever got comfortable with helping people exit, I would probably not be good. And I should probably just not do my job. And so um I actually um find a lot of um value of if a decision is being made that someone is leaving the company, whether theirs or uh for another reason, I want to be there for the person and whatever that looks like, and I work for a place that allows me to do that. And so for that I see that as a blessing so I can walk through life with them beyond them leaving a company and care for them as a human and nothing to do with them as an employee. And that part gives me um a lot of rest, if that makes sense. It's counterintuitive. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

I think if you're in that role for a long time, especially like the people are quitting or you're having to fire people, people you loved and trusted, it's hard. I feel like what I would want to do and what most people would want to do is like get just a really thick skin, scab over and not feel it, and just be like almost like choose sociopathy because it protects you.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

What you're saying is you're willing yourself to like no, still be hurt, still care, but somehow there's like rest in that choice.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Which doesn't feel like it makes sense, but I I think it does. And most things are like that when you choose, like, oh, my marriage is like that. My life is probably worse because I'm married, like it's better in a million ways.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

But now my wife tears her ACL or something, and my ACL is torn too. Like you double your maladies, but it's so much better.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

And so that's kind of what you're doing at work. It's like, man, I it'd be easier probably not to feel it on this Friday, but I'm going to.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Yeah. Yeah. And and I think um so often in life, you don't know what people are going through. You don't. Um, you have no clue. And um, and whether they bring you into that, you will never fully know. But a lot of people don't have people in their lives to walk through things with, um, whether it's because they haven't allowed somebody to or whether someone doesn't know how to. And so I think working for a place that allows you to be that person for somebody, um, whether you do it well or not, just being there and being present and listening is really what people need in those moments. And then if you can help them find another job or help them with their resume or help them with getting a therapist, whatever it is, like we're allowed to do it. And that that part feels really good and gives me a lot of peace um and a lot of rest and recharge.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

I've had it said to me before, because I'm in people stuff. And I think I had this in my head and I could do it, but then progressively you get better at it, maybe, but just never be shocked. And if you're never shocked, like a person won't just tell you A, they'll tell you B, C, and D as well. They'll keep going because so often they get cut off by someone being shocked or appalled or judgmental.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

And so is that a skill you've always had, or is that something that you find true in your work and you've like developed? But for me, it's been just been so helpful. And I don't, I I don't like leave with it as much. I someone blows up their life and it's just like, yeah, that's what we do. It's fine. And so instead of being like, I can't believe they let me down, it's like, no, man, you just you did the same stuff I do.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

That's exactly right. I mean, when you really, when you really boil it down, we all do stuff all the time that's shocking, right? And it's just up to the perception of someone of what shocking actually really means, to be honest. And I think the more you go through life and the more you work in situations and the more you self-reflect of the stuff that you do, you're like, hey, look, I've do some shocking things too. And there's times in life that I need somebody to be there for me. And there's times in life that I've got really heavy things that are happening, and I just need someone to listen. And so when you go through that, then being that for somebody else means even more to you because and it brings you that peace and that um feeling like you're providing value, feeling like you're having rest, um, because you're like, I needed this at one point in time, and so does this person. And so, yeah, I think you just the more you can ground yourself in we're all messy and we're all human and we all have our own faults, the more you can be there for other people, and the people don't feel the judgment and they don't feel the shock.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Because I think if people felt the shock, that would feel pretty crappy.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Yeah, and I think they expect it. Maybe that's why they haven't opened up a lot. It's like so often something gets said like I know it's gonna surprise you, or I know you're gonna be disappointed, but and then it's like I'm not disappointed. Like I'm not disappointed at all. Like I'm maybe disappointed in how things played out or disappointed in your in choices, but with you, no, man. Let's walk through this. Yes. Uh-huh. But it is like liberating in some ways. Let's say this. Uh, so you choosing to care and have empathy actually gives you a sense of privilege and joy, which is cool. Uh, but let's say it's a Friday and you have to be the grim reaper, vocational grim reaper. You're just like, you have to tell bad news to 76 people on a Friday. You know this Friday, you go into it, you execute the Friday, you do your thing with love and care, whatever. But now it's like four o'clock and you get to go home or get to go wherever.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Where do you go and what do you do in that moment? It's like, this has been a hellish day. So how do I bring a little heaven into my life? So what are, I don't know, is there like a special drink or a walk or exercise or people? Like, what are your go-tos to just be like, okay. Holistically I heal by caring, uh, but temporarily I heal by binge eating this burrito.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Yeah. Like, what is it for you? What's your burrito? Um, well, I have three kids. And so um there's not a lot of time in my life to say, I'm gonna go do X, Y, and Z.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

I thought you were gonna say I have three kids, so they lift me up, and it was like, I have three kids, I'm gonna have a lot of time. I gotta turn it over quick.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Yeah, I don't have a lot of time. Um so I think in some ways that's healthy though. I don't I don't I don't have a choice of living in it for very long. Um and so my kids, they have different journeys and different things happening in their lives, and they're all really active humans, little humans. And so you just really have to say, all right, well, guess what? Now I get to go be a part of their lives and I get to do something for them, and that will bring me joy and that will bring me the peace and the rest that I need.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Yeah. And kids don't care. No. I mean, they care like a like in a loving way, but my kids, if they had to write out what they think I do for a job, I mean it'd be D minus work. Like they wouldn't even be close, and that's fine. It's almost better, but I can't go home. I can tell them I had a rough day and they'll give me more empathy and care. They look so beautiful. But then if I start being like, well, you know, I was I I got held up, I was talking to someone and went really long, and then I was late for the next per they just like eyes would glaze over and be like, let's play video games.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

I gotta go to swim meet or whatever in your case.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

Yep. Well, I think this is not a popular belief, but I think sometimes when you sit in it, then you feel worse.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

It's like you're like, I'm, you know, I deserve X, Y, and Z because I went through something today, and then you do X, Y, and Z. And you don't, I don't, I don't, I mean, maybe other people do, but I don't find joy from that because it's like, well, now I feel worse because I've sat around and I've thought about myself and how terrible something was. Um, I think the fine balance is is like, you know, when you're when you do something hard, you've got to make sure that you do work through it, right? Like you can't just be like, all right, I'm just gonna put compartmentalize things, but also the fine balance of like you don't want to sit in that forever either, because then you end up feeling worse about it.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Yeah, it's almost like reflect but don't ruminate. Yes. And so you can get through the process of doing that quicker. I do that now I've learned before things. So there are things I definitely don't want to do and I'll never want to do them.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

But they're also obligations, there are things I'm gonna say yes to. So and one example I've used is I sometimes get called in for funeral stuff.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

I have to do the funeral, I have to walk with the family. I will never like that. I'm not comfortable with death, I don't like it, I don't like sadness, I feel stuff a little too deeply.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

And so I've realized that. I also realize I'm a people pleaser and I'm gonna say yes because it's meaningful for those people. And so the strategy I have now is I say yes and I do not think about it again until I'm doing it. I mean, I plan it and prepare it, but I won't sit there and be like on Tuesday, be like Friday's gonna be terrible, and Wednesday, Friday's gonna be terrible, and Thursday, Friday's gonna be terrible, and then Friday I go to the funeral because now I've lived the misery four times.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

I'm gonna live it once on Friday, and then I'm gonna walk away and reflect, but I'm not gonna sit there and be like, that was rough, I'm never doing it again, I'm never doing it because I'm going to.

unknown 12:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

And so it's almost like that in advance, too. Where it's like, man, sitting in it is good for a second, especially if you have someone who can say, All right, session's over, let's get moving.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

So I think there's some wisdom there that you're showing, and that yeah, you just reflect, get better, make sure you did things right, and then move on.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Yeah. And and I think like the prep before the mental prep before you have to do it is important, right? Like you don't want to sit there and dread it for days. Yeah. But knowing yourself and knowing, okay, what am I gonna need to be able to be fully present? Yeah, to be able to feel it deep, right? It's good to feel things deeply. Like I a lot of times people say, Oh, well, yeah, I just try to shut that off or don't be so empathetic. Like, no, feel it. Feel it, be there, be present, go deep with everybody there. But know beforehand, hey, here's what I'm gonna need going into it. Here's what I'm gonna need to fully be present and fully feel it, and then here's what I'm gonna need to walk through it so it doesn't translate to other areas of my life. So I don't come home to my three kids and I'm mad at them or I'm frustrated or I'm trying to get a bunch of stuff done and and not really allowing myself to be show up and be present for them.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

It's almost like you're gonna get wrecked either way. So you'd rather just get wrecked quick and deal with it and move on rather than like toting it with you and you get wrecked on your 200th time getting wrecked, you're gonna have like some massive panic attack or heart condition or something. I don't know. Yeah. They have that in gambling. I was reading an article about gambling, and gambling companies don't actually want you to like lose all your money at once because then they don't have you as a future customer. Yeah, they want to protect you, but they want to protect you so you're a long-term customer. And what gamblers on the other side of the companies call it is the slow bleed. And it's actually a slow bleed leading to a slow death, and it's worse. Uh and it's kind of like that with like our emotional capacity for others. It's like love wrecks you. So if you're gonna be love and care as you walk with people through hard things, it's like, yeah, I expect this. I'm gonna feel it all, so I don't have to feel it all for seven years with a counselor.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Right. Right, right. It's funny. My uh when I was reflecting on this podcast, my middle name is Joy. Perfect. And I asked my parents early on, I'm like, why did you my is my middle name Joy? It's not after anybody, like what what what's the purpose of it? And um my dad, who um, you know, just is is is a very joyful person naturally, said, There is so little joy in the world that we wanted you to bring the joy.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

You're the mascot.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

And yeah, that's does not sound great. Um, but and and trust me, there's lots of times they do not bring joy. But I think having an early on from parents who are like, hey, the world is gonna be hard and it's gonna be rough. And like, why not be the person that builds everybody else up instead of tears them down? Why not choose joy?

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Um, and it's it's hard. It's it's super hard. And there's things that you go through every day that steals your joy or robs your joy. But at an early age, having parents saying, hey, like, if you can find your self-worth in something that is steady and constant, you will always be grounded and it won't steal your joy. So that should be always your pursuit is where are you putting your self-worth to where you can put it in a place that is not going to rob and steal your joy, that you can have joy and build people up and be the positivity in the world. And it's just kind of this constant, um, even though I do not do it well, a lot of times, um, it's been just kind of this constant um thing in the back of my mind where am I actually living out that middle name? Am I am I robbing joy? Am I robbing other people's joy? Um, and why? Like, what am I doing that's doing that to other people? And am I building people up or am I tearing them down? And just kind of having that self-awareness from time to time to kind of reground yourself and say, you know what, I'm off. I'm off. I'm not bringing joy like I thought I should.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Well, that's like ancient cultures, oftentimes that that's how they name kids. They would name kids, and the the name is kind of a precursor to your destiny. So like they give you a name, and that name is supposed to like fix who you are and become it's an identity thing, and we just name kids Skylar because it sounded cooler. So that's fine, that's how we named our kids. Uh but there's something like that, you have this constant sort of reminder of identity. And so when you lapse from that identity, it's like, wait a second, you can hear dad's voice or mom's voice. So that might be something a takeaway. We haven't had any applications, I don't think, from the 14 episodes of this show. But here's one like have a joy totem of some point, like some type of thing that's just a trigger or this reminder. We can't all change our name to joy. You have that built in, so you have a nice one, it's easy, but I don't know what it is. Like something on your desk, some little reminder, something on your rear view mirror, I don't know, a necklace, a tattoo, get a facial tattoo. That'd be great. Uh, but you have that built in, which is kind of cool. Just joy.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Yeah, I was listening to um, I love documentaries, um, and Tom Brady's parents. I think they said it best. I'm gonna get it wrong, but basically they said, hey, the whole world is gonna tear him down. Our job is to build him up. Wow. And it's kind of a good, I loved it just because it's true. It's so true. Like the whole world's gonna tell you what you're doing wrong. There your whole world is gonna tell you, hey, you should do this better, or you didn't do this better, you didn't throw the ball this certain way, or you didn't act the way that you should have. And why not choose positivity and building somebody up? And that's I mean, Tom Brady's journey. Like, if you if you watch the documentary, I mean, he was not as good as what he turned out to be. But he had this like innate belief that he could do it, and no matter what he got drafted, what round he was drafted, it never held him back. Yeah. Because he had, and he says these credits to his parents, like, I had parents who chose positivity and to build me up. And so no matter what came my way, and what a cool thing to be for people. Yeah. So it was inspiring to me of like, yeah, that is that is a great choice in life.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

There was a study done on Jewish moms in New York. I don't know if you ever saw this, but like Jewish moms in a certain era of New York, I don't know, it was like the 30s or something. Their kid was the best kid. And they let that kid know that they were the best kid and they were the smartest. So the kid came home and had like a B minus back, we don't do B minuses, whatever. The Goldsteins don't do B minuses. You are the smartest kid in that class. And the kid might have been an idiot. But pretty soon the kids started believing I am the smartest kid in the class. And so then they studied it, and all these like Jewish kids that were born in that decade ended up leading companies and doing all this stuff, and some of them like were way out kicking their coverage, like intellectually or looks-wise, or whatever. But they all just and it was like because of these Jewish moms created this self-fulfilling prophecy that you are going to be amazing, like encouraging them, like you can do anything. And it's like at some point they just bought it, and then they did, and then they just did it. There is something like that with identity. Here's a question for you, and this might you might not have an answer. I don't know. I I don't think people think about this too much, but what are uh what's a thing you do or a few things you do that when you're doing them you feel the most like you?

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Man. Um time is my love language. I love spending time with people. So quality time. When I'm with somebody and I get to spend time with them and we have great conversations, that is when I feel the most like me.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

So in let's say marriage, I know your husband, you also know your husband, it's convenient. Um what's like an ideal date night taking into account or maybe it's like a date weekend, but what does it look like trying to know, hey, I I love spending quality time? How does that operate with busy life kids, busy jobs?

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Yeah, it's he will laugh at this, but ideally it would be a weekend.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

And it would be like us driving somewhere, so you have quality car time. I always tell him, Oh, you can't go anywhere, so you're gonna have to literally be with me for the next four hours in this car, and we're gonna have to talk about all the things. Um, that would be ideal. Sometimes it's not, it doesn't actually happen that way, just because life and it's busy. But I think uh having people in your life that tell you, hey, like you need to spend more time with people, like you've you've gotten way too driven by all the tasks that you have to get done and all the things that you have to get done, and people saying, like, you're you're stealing your joy because that's what brings you, you you love people and spending time with people. So you just need to put that away and not do laundry and just let it pile up and you need to go have a date night, or you need to go hang out with your friends, or you need to go spend time with your kids. Yeah, and you need those reminders, even though I love doing that, I will not prioritize that. And then people around me will be like, Man, you're just not as happy as you usually are, like you're a little bit more short. What's going on? And when you reflect, it's like, well, yeah, I haven't I haven't done the thing that brings me the most joy and the thing that I love to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

So like connection, and I love the quote, it's been going around lately, you can't love in a hurry. And then your job occasionally, working moms, especially, uh working dads too, but working moms, I think especially, it's like especially if you have a task oriented job, you got a million things to get to during the day. And then you go home and it's like we have 17 swim practices tonight. Yeah, yeah, and we have to figure out dinner, we have to do all these things. So it is just fast, fast, fast. So for you, it feels like, man, when you just breathe and go slow with someone instead of being like, I have five minutes, let's get deep. And it's like, no, no, no, let's take the weekend.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Let's take the weekend.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Let's drive to Omaha or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

Yeah, and I think uh sometimes people put Unrealistic expectations on themselves, myself included. Like I sometimes it's like I have put this expectation on myself that I have to get all this stuff done. I actually don't have to get laundry done. It'll be fine. Yep. People will be just fine.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

It's a deadline. It's called the deadline because it's killing you. Yes. It's not a real deadline. No one is the laundry police aren't going to show up. No. But we all do it all the time.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

All the time. And I and I think like that when you talk about like busyness, right? People say that all the time. Like, I'm super busy. I got a lot on my plate. And it's like, well, no, you're actually just busy with the stuff that you've decided that need to be done. And when you talk about like prioritizing or boundaries and all of that, it's like basically saying, what unrealistic expectations am I putting on myself that no one else actually really cares that much about? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

It'll be just fine. That's another life goal now. You've given me another life goal. So I'm going to have some kind of joy totem or token put on my desk. And then this summer, because I always say this like, I've got to get the mowing done, or the HOA is going to say something. That's always my thing. And I feel the pressure of the HOA. The HOA, I don't even know who that is. I've never heard from them. They they don't show up. There's not like men in trench coat walking around our neighborhood. But my goal is to get the HOA to reach out to me about the state of my lawn once, and then I'll know I'm winning. Like, yeah, okay, I'll get to it now. I'll get to it. I want to get an official HOA warning.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

Let's have this happen.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

I'm going to say Larissa Wallard Wallard told me to just quit putting these weird arbitrary priorities that are just made up. But that I think you're you're dead on, especially because you, uh all of us, it's almost conditioned through vocation that hey, this is due tomorrow, this is due tomorrow, this is due tomorrow, and then like I treat my kids the same way. Tie your shoes, tie your shoes, tie your shoes. It's like the library doesn't even know we're coming.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

They won't care if we're 10 minutes late to check out a book. But why am I yelling at my kid?

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Because in my head, he's got to be efficient. And it's like relationships aren't efficient.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

No. Yeah. And it's almost like, you know, people always say, oh, well, your kid's never gonna go to kindergarten and diapers. But we have it in our mind. Like we have to have our kids potty trained by X time. Yeah. And it's like the societal pressure of like, all right, by the time you're X old, you've got to be potty trained. And really, no, you really don't. Yeah. They'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

Yeah, you don't see too many 30-year-olds girls like, oh, I never got that lesson.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

I never got that lesson. So I think it's just like that's a it's a weird example, but it's true. Like you don't you go through life with just these expectations of all the things that you gotta get done. And sometimes you need people like mine is my husband who says, What are you doing? Like none we don't care. We actually do not care that you have laundry put away and it's not in baskets.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Like we don't care. Do you receive that? Like, is it a first you bristle and protect that thing?

SPEAKER_00 24:44

A hundred percent. Okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

I know that my wife will check me on stuff and it's like, I'm so like territorial about and then same probably she's more patient than me, so she gets over it quicker. But it's so hard to hear that, even though you know it's true. It's like I will fight about it for like two or three hours, then I'll realize, oh, thank you. Yeah. It takes a little bit, because at first it's like, don't come after my stuff, man.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

Yeah, I'm gonna be defensive about this. And I am not patient. I am super impatient. And so literally everything I'm saying is people in my life who have told me it does not matter. I do not know why you are doing this so quickly. This is not a big deal. You are making this a bigger deal than what it actually is. We do not care. We actually don't care. And you are caring way more than everybody else's. Or you did this thing and you want people to notice it, but we actually didn't even want you to do that thing in the first place. So you're trying to get credit for something we actually don't even care about. Yep. So I uh all of the stuff that I'm saying is like people have to constantly rein me in and check me of like you're you're going off. You're going off into the task world, you're going off into the unrealistic expectations, you have got the the thing you love to do the most is time and you're not doing it.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

And that doesn't serve anybody well. So please, please just don't do the laundry.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

I think that's a great example. That's like uh even what we talk about on here or like your middle name. It's like that tug of war. If we can find out the thing that brings us joy or happy. I think like I think of joy as like the bread, and that would be deeper things maybe, but then there's crumbs and that's happiness, and it a lot of times the happiness will lead to the bread.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

And sometimes the bread then gives you crumbs and it's new versions of happiness. But if we can figure out what that is, then you can usually find the defeaters, like you said, the thing that's coming after it. So it's like I love quality time. So what is your battle gonna be? Choosing time over results. Yeah, and you get the results too. Yeah, we it always kind of gets done.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

I think the results feel good in the moment, right? Yeah, and that's why you're striving for it. I'm an Enneagram three, someone told me this yesterday. Apparently, that's an achiever. Um, achievers love results. Yeah. So it feels good. Like it feels good, like, hey, I'm gonna go get this result, I'm gonna go get this thing done. I'm gonna I'm gonna hire these this amount of people and hit the goal, and I'm gonna do my laundry, and I'm gonna make sure that groceries are done early, and I'm gonna make dinner and I'm gonna get all this stuff done, and that feels good. It feels like I had a really productive day. And then you're at the end of the day and you're like, I actually didn't really do anything of that that I love. Yeah. I I just I did like a bunch of stuff to check the box, but like what where was my intention on it? Did I really have to get all of that done? Yeah. Did I really enjoy it while I was doing it? Like, did I actually did I do a good job while I was doing it? Or was it just about the results?

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Like I've never seen a like this is morbid, but I've never seen a tombstone that says got ass done. Not that we shouldn't like go get stuff done, but it's just like at the end, it's what you will see is people like devoted mother.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Um, even like carrying employee would be better than got stuff done. I don't know. But we still gotta get stuff done. Of course we're saying that, but not to the detriment of our humanity.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Or something like that. Okay. Um what right now? We'll do this question and then I'll let you end it if you want to end it. But what makes you laugh right now? Either it can be a story that just recently happened, something your kid did, or it's a show you like. I imagine la I think laughter's pretty important. And what happens with cynicism, that's the first thing to go.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

There's like nothing's funny. I went to see a stand-up comedian, they weren't even funny. It's like, shut up. Did you want it to be funny? Right. And so, like, where are you finding that like something your husband's doing? Anything plays, but what's a thing that you've been chuckling over?

SPEAKER_00 28:34

I married somebody really funny. Just and and I was clearly attracted to that, but married somebody really funny. All his friends are really funny. My kids are really funny because of it. Yeah. And I just I surrounding yourself with people that just enjoy life and they make jokes out of things and they don't take it super seriously. Um and so honestly, I have constant laughter in my family just because they'll pull pranks on each other, they'll hide and try to scare you. Like, I mean, it's just that that is that is literally what happened last night in my house is everyone was hiding and trying to scare me.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

It's super fun to be the person scaring someone, but then it's not great. Immediately afterwards, you're like, oh no. And you have to be on edge because you know payback's coming.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Uh-huh. You know it's coming. Yeah. So it it's, I think, just making making the little things fun and funny and not so serious.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

So you were like innately drawn to that. You married someone who has that in their bag. Um, were you funny? No. So that's my question. Some people think I'm funny. I don't know if I am or not.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

I would say you're funny.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

But my wife definitely, that wasn't her lane. All right. She gets like she gets stuff done. Yes, she's a hustler, amazing, million wonderful qualities. But that was not necessarily, but then like every now and then we'll look at each other and I'll just say something like, You got funny. Like, you're funny now. And she will, she'll joke more, and she even likes funnier stuff when she laughs more, and it's like, it's funny. And I've I do stuff now, like I'll vacuum. Like, I've taken on some of her qualities as well. And so that has that happened to you, where it's like every now and then you'll bring one out, and then like you get your funny spouse laughing. You're like, feels kind of good.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Like, feels good. I I would love to say that. I would love to say I'm just so funny, but no, not at all.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

But funny you're going that direction.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

But yeah, I surround myself with it.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Do you scare them back? Do you get do you get they're all trying to scare you? No, no. That's the challenge for you this weekend. Just pop a scare on one of them. One of your family members, just and they're like, Mom, you?

SPEAKER_00 30:42

You'll grow your grass and I'll scare people.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Yep, that's it. All right, we got to takeaway steps. That's good for us. Uh you're an achiever, you want to get that done. Um anything we haven't gotten to that you'd like to, anything you'd like to say, um, words of wisdom, a joke, or you can just say, no, leave me alone. Anything.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

I appreciate you having me. I think it's cool what you're doing. I think it's really cool. I think it's cool to talk about, to have different people talk about joy and and adding laughter and adding fun into life and giving people advice on how to do that. I think it's important. Like life is gonna be hard no matter what. It's how you choose to live it, right? And so if you're choosing joy and you're choosing fun, work's gonna be more fun, your relationships will be better, um, you'll be better at the end of it. So it's hard to choose every day, especially when life brings you things and curves balls that you don't expect. But if you try to choose it, like make the choice every day, and you you ground your self-worth in something that's steady and constant and not fleeting, then life will just end up being better for it. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

Yeah, and the circumstances, like the diagnosis might come either way.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

But can I joke with the doctor along the way or make them laugh or enjoy their company, or I don't know, be more hospitable while that diagnosis is playing out and the prognosis is going on with family. I think you're right, there's choice, and it doesn't mean life's easier where there's not toil. Tons of toil, tons of pain. Yeah, that's why you need it. That's why you gotta have this in your bag and take it with you. Right. You gotta scare each other and laugh a little bit and choose to care. So I appreciate you coming on, leading well, um, doing hard things with people and doing it with empathy. And so, yeah, thanks for your work, thanks for sharing today, and thank you all for listening. We'll be back next week with a new episode. Um, have a joyful week.