Rachel Douglas: Karaoke, Canoes, and More Is More

What happens when the extrovert who lights up every room realizes her battery is empty halfway through a service trip in Jamaica?

Rachel Douglas grew up floating rivers in St. James, Missouri, and now trains people at Veterans United in Columbia. She talks about being the youngest child who learned to lighten the mood, the mid-week moment in Jamaica's Harmony House when she finally let people see her vulnerable after a Meals on Heels visit left her overstimulated, and her karaoke go-tos: "Goodbye Earl" by the Dixie Chicks and Celine Dion's "My Heart Will Go On," fist in the air.

Matt and Rachel get into why community gets harder after 22, what it means to find safe people who don't need you to be on, and her motto that's reshaped how she shows up: be what you want to attract. More is more, especially when it comes to joy.

Plus: the story of a 30-year-old who snapped at Rachel's sister for humming Broadway hits at the Missouri Symphony's Defying Gravity show.

Follow us today for some weekly joy.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome back to a fiercer delight. Uh I won a fiercer delight in my life. I think you maybe do too. And what we talk about with a fiercer delight is just to enjoy our joy more. To seek happiness, to try and find it, try and protect it, try and guard it. And then we just kind of chase that around by having conversations. So today I'm joined by my friend Rachel. Hi. How's it going? Good, how are you? And your last name's Douglas.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Yes, last name is Douglas. Rachel Douglas.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

Alright, and you are uh you live in Columbia, Missouri. I do. But we've talked some and talked even a little bit today. You're kind of like a farm girl, country girl.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

I grew up in the I grew up in the country, uh like two hours south of Columbia in a small town called St. James. We're known for floating and wineries.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

Good mix.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

Just get a bunch of wine and go float on the river.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Very common in the summer months. Yes. Uh I did not do that in high school. We mostly just floated. We were pretty like tame. Um, but yeah, my parents live about 10 minutes from the river. And uh yeah, it was a really like interesting childhood. We grew up in the country, not like tons of land, but uh we have a pond and like fishing, and my dad has tractors and okay, dad has tractors, so yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

Uh so you floated like every weekend on Wednesday night if you're in a floating town, you're just like, let's get a quick float in.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

It could be that way. That wasn't totally my childhood, but that was very common for a lot of people. So wonder is like it's not an it doesn't have to be this organized thing when you live close to the river. Like um, a lot of people will make a trip to St. James to like or in that area, you know, to go to a river, and it's like you hire uh uh like I don't know what are they called, like outfitting companies or something, and like they drive you and you take you, but like my dad would just put the canoes in the back of his truck or and would drive us down to the river and we could just like float it and get off whenever we wanted to.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Because I always wondered that about like families that live in Orlando.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:51

Do they go to Disney World? Or I was talking to someone who lives in Augusta, and they're like, Yeah, almost all the townies leave Augusta for two weeks during the and they rent their stuff out, and they're they enjoy the golf course and what it brings, but it's like we kind of see how the sausage is made. But river people they river, yeah, they do.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

And I wouldn't say my family was river people, but we know now, like even like so. I'm an aunt of m of five kids, and we go floating with my sister's kids a lot in the summertime, and like they own canoes and kayaks, and like my sister's family loves to do that, and we will be strategic on when we go to the river now. So we don't want to be part of like crowded party rivers. Yes. And so that's where it's like we probably go on a Sunday afternoon instead of like a Saturday afternoon and or in the middle of the week.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

You said uh we're not river people. So is there a designation in your town? Like, yeah, that's a river rat or something.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

I I think so.

SPEAKER_03 2:44

What's a river person? Tell me about a river person.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Um, well, oftentimes they have like houses like on the river, like right up like next to it, or like uh plots of land where they maybe park a RV or a travel trailer and like they'll live there for like the summer. It's like almost like lake house, but less.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

Different.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Yeah, yeah, but different. And so and then they just it's like they're gonna floating the river could be a tube, it could be, you know, it could be not necessarily we mostly were canoe people, or yeah, we didn't have kayaks or anything like that, but we were canoeers, and not that I'm good at it at all. Like just it's fun to sit and float.

SPEAKER_03 3:23

Relatively newly in the relationship that became my marriage, we might have been newlyweds, it was something like that. Uh I grew up pretty much rural in the country. My wife grew up in St. Louis, St. Louis, like in St. Louis, and so we're going floating and we had talked it up, and my whole family was going, and some of our friends were going, we're going floating, and she was excited. She likes to be outside, she likes the sun, whatever. And we were doing like a six or seven-hour float. Like we have the different distinctions. This wasn't even like the longest, it was like the middle. We get on, we get on our inner tubes, outfitting company drops off, we get in our tubes, we jump into the river. We're three minutes in, she's like, now when does it start? And I was like, This is it. Yeah, she goes, What else happens? I was like, This. And she's like, How long? I was like, We have five hours and fifty-seven more minutes. She got done with the six-hour float in like two hours. She just like jogged through it. And she was all clean when we got back. She's like, We're not doing that again. She didn't love it. I think maybe now she would.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Uh did she like think it would be like whitewater rafting or something adventure like more?

SPEAKER_03 4:31

Yeah. I think she just thought there was more to it, and we weren't drinkers. And I think the more to it for most people is like, we just get sloshed, but we were drinking like Diet Dr. Pepper.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Yeah, not getting sloshed. Yeah, that's was kind of my family's vibe too. That we were like, and we like our church youth group would do this a lot where we would always like go to the river and float different areas or whatever. Um, and so it was it's more of like, oh, we're being serene, kind of, and like restful and hanging out. And it's a picnic, and like my sister's kids like to fish when we're on the river and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

But so it's a surprise for a city, city dweller. Uh so we've talked a little bit about floating, and now I'm thinking about floating through life in some ways, and you do like river things with your nephews and nieces, and um, your sister, your family still gets together and does that. It's a homage to your childhood. Uh-huh. Are you a person who sees your story progressing as like you are very connected to who you were at 18 and who you were at 10 and who you were at six, or do you just kind of like go episode by episode through your life? Because apparently there's two types of people. There's a person who's like, my narrative is one seamless person throughout, and there's other people, and they tend to be a little bit less sentimental, who are just like, oh, I'm moving to a new city, that's cool, and they don't really necessarily think about the last city that much.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Yeah, I guess I am way more sentimental than that. Um, and I've moved cities a few different times, and I think that I I thought I would be a person that it's like, oh, just pick up a move and start over, and it'll all be fine. And then I every time that I've gotten to a new city that I've been in, it's like, whoa, like I miss my people, or like, how do you build new community again? And it's much, oh, it's always much harder than I expected. And maybe that's just like the older that you get that it's harder to, or you realize what great community that you have, and then starting over or trying to build new things is still hard. Um, and so I am much more sentimental and like will look back at that, and hence why I think I have always kept coming back to where my community and my family are.

SPEAKER_03 6:34

What makes great community for you? Like if you're moving to the new city and you're like, this ain't it, or whatever. You have some comparison. So what's great community?

SPEAKER_01 6:42

I think I'm like more of a person that like I I love people and like I love too people, like being surrounded by lots of people, but I also want to have deep, close connection with at least like a good core group of people. And um so it's like finding ways to like be able to go deep with at least a few different people and then I don't know, have a have it like a big outer ring of that too. And um, I don't I just feel like the older that you get, the harder it is to do it because I don't know. For me, I've always I've always thought that if you don't go to church, like how do you meet people like when you're in your 30 plus? And these are like the scenarios of my life that I moved, I was always in my like 30s or higher. And it's like post-college, it's like you don't go to I mean, I guess you can go to bars and stuff, but like that wasn't totally my scene anymore. And it's like without church, it was like, oh man, how do I, how do you get rooted? How do you find community? How do you find connection? Yes, you find it through work a lot of times. Um, and thankfully, I feel like that VU has filled that a lot for me. Um, whenever I moved here almost 10 years ago. And so I don't know. It's yeah, that's like the tricky part for me.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

Yeah, I think that's totally true too. Your whole first 18 years of life, you are just socialized to a T. You're playing all these sports together, you're going to school together, you have to go to class. And then if you do college, it's like more freedom, but an extension of that. Like most of what you do in college is hang out and you do some classes on the side. Right. And then you turn 22 and everyone walks off the stage all off madly in their own directions. Yeah. It's like, oh, now do where do I find my people? And it is either a very intentional hobby.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

Uh it's a workplace, or it's a faith community of some sort. And sometimes all of those.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Yeah, correct.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

Uh the you talk about the deep community too. You want to go deep with a few. I think what the way you you structure it is what like psychologists and sociology say you have to do. It's like you have a few close connected, yeah, and then you have a little outer ring, and then you have like deal friends, and all of it is good. Right. But it's different. So are the deep people just people you've done a lot of life with, or are you like intentional, like when you give it those? I'm a guy. Guys struggle with this sometimes. I haven't even in this one men's group that's met for four years, and if we're not careful, we'll go three months without having a serious conversation.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 9:00

And so it's like someone's gotta at some point be like, no, actually, how is life?

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:04

And no, no, no, I don't want to hear a Seinfeld reference. How is your life?

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

So are you good at that? Do you do that? Is that helpful?

SPEAKER_01 9:11

I have to be inten I do kind of have to be intentional about it. I think that I'm known as a personality in a lot of ways that it's like, oh, you're like, you're fun, you're lighthearted, like I am gonna like joke about things, and I um like to have that lightheartedness, but like I also need people in my life that like are going to like say, like, no, no, no, no, no, like don't make a joke or don't make light about this. How are you doing? How is this hard thing that you did? Or um to kind of like slow me down a little bit and like to bring me to that like deeper place that it's not always natural for me to do it either.

SPEAKER_03 9:47

So well, you you did say that, and I know you a little bit. We've been on yeah trips together, even.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

Uh so we did some service trips, and you do you personality plus you are a people or yeah, you are a laugher, or you are like a glue person. And so I think while that's your strength, it can also for any of us, it can become a weakness where you always have to be on.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 10:08

And so, like, I think what you're talking about is someone who's like, hey, you don't have to be on for yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

I like that. That's the you nailed it, actually, because I think there I have this layer of almost that I put on like it's an expectation that I need to be on all the time, or I sh I need to be this for everyone to enjoy it, or to have a good time, or to make people feel connected, or to help build culture in some way. And I need that I need times where it's like, hey, don't worry, sis, like you don't need to be that. Just like if you if you want to be off, you can be off and like someone else will fill that space if needed. Um, and that's where I think that it took me a long time, or I am still learning, even like who the people are that are like safe for me to be able or like know that I need that um time to come down.

SPEAKER_03 10:55

I think that's the word safe, like a few safe people where it's like, yeah, you can let your hair down here and then you get to go and do your thing. Yeah. Because it is a gift, but it's like sometimes you just want to turn the gift off and just be flawed or vulnerable or just heal, rest.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Right. Yeah to be able to keep doing it. And that's where I think I used to really run off of like empty battery a lot. And it was just like, man, and I hit a point, and maybe this is also just aging and growing older too, wiser, hopefully, that you're like, okay, I'm gonna like know my boundaries and I know more of like when my body is signaling that I'm going to like run out or how to have more rest or repeat or stand like uh be able to advocate for myself and be like, well, actually, I'm gonna like set this thing out, and because if I want to show up in my best way in another way, I need to not. And that's been like a hard thing for me to learn, actually.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

Yeah, I think I've experienced that in different ways as well, and I think it is hard because it if you're a people pleaser in any way, it's like I have to keep doing this or I die. And then at some point you don't do it a few times and you realize everything kind of goes on without you and it's okay. Yeah. But then you do realize too, oh, I can make this better, but I don't need to make it better all the time.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

It doesn't have to be all the time.

SPEAKER_03 12:08

Yeah. Did you you said like kind of burning out, or I forget the phrasing you put on it, but do you recall like a time where that really happened, or you got close to where it's like, man, I don't even like the gift that I have anymore, or I don't even like that I have this personality or this laughter because it's driving me crazy.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Um, well, I don't know if it I can't think of a time where I thought maybe it drove me crazy, but like actually this year for when we went on the Jamaica service trip, there was like a mid I kind of was running on fumes going into the Jamaica service trip this year um with VU and it's my favorite week of the whole year. Like maybe tops Christmas. Like I look forward to going on this trip so much, but I was like moving into a new apartment. I had recently changed jobs at VU. I had all of this like big kind of like life stuff, and I just kept going and going and going and not really have I wasn't able to have, I think, rest going into this trip. And so it was more of like, I kept finding my finding myself thinking of like once you get past Jamaica, once you finish that week, then like you here's the rest of the to-do list. And it was just very like stressful, and I did not really head into that week in like a super excited, joyful space. I knew I would get there like once we actually got to Jamaica, but midweek I realized I'm like, oh, my battery is actually empty. And I was feeling like really vulnerable, and that's not also something that I love to feel around 50 people that maybe you don't know very well. Or I and I have obviously safe people in that group, but by midweek I was like so overstimulated. It's a big week, it's a lot to do. And we had just finished Meals on Heels, where we were like in someone's house, and I was the only extrovert in the group, and my battery felt empty. And I was talking to, you know, I don't know, a family of like six Jamaicans that uh don't like it's not their natural gift to carry conversation either. And so I remember getting on the bus and I just was like, ah, and I did stow away and find intentional time once we got back to the Harmony House because I was just like, I need to sit and like actually process. And I I'm not a journaler. I don't and that's not something that is natural, but I was just like, and everyone came to me and was like, what's wrong? What's wrong? Yeah, you're sad, you're off, you're off. And that's where it's like kind of like I'm like, oh no, it's okay. And like No, there's actually more to me. That's where it comes in, where it's like, oh, it's okay. There's other sides, and just because I'm sad doesn't mean like I'm broken or like you don't have to fix it either. Like um, so it was a moment of like, okay. And I I think like hindsight, I'm like, well, I can look into like everything that went into that week of like preparing for it. And it's kind of stressful to prepare to leave to an go to another country and all these things, but um, that I was like, okay, you didn't care for yourself, I think, well heading into it. And it did catch up, but it's also like, wow, it's okay that I was vulnerable or kind of had that midweek low because the world kept going. Like the week went on and I rebounded too that it wasn't, I don't know, it didn't ruin the experience. It actually made it deeper because I allowed more people to come into that circle and see that side of me, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 15:22

Yeah. Yeah. And it's like that side's not actually bad or weak.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

No, and for some reason I have this thing of like, oh, if you're not on at a 10, or if you're not um doing this thing where you're always trying to engage everyone, it's a sign of weakness, or I've I have done I have let people down, maybe like because I'm not um creating culture or community in a way that I've had this expectation of in my head.

SPEAKER_03 15:50

Yeah. No, I like that. Uh there's a quote Bonhoeffer has that has always stuck with me. It's that he who loves his idea of community destroys it, but he who loves his friend creates it or something. And it's like that's kind of like is the impetus to like love people well and do the best I can and just be okay with outcomes, and that can be healthy and good and you can sustain it longer, or is the I don't know, the impetus to perform in some ways. And I'm talking more of me having to realize like, gosh, I just need to make every situation I don't need to. I get to make situations better. And sometimes making them better means playing a supporting role, sometimes it's a lead role. Yeah, sometimes it's moving and shaking. Yeah. But that to me, I think you're right. For me, it was age because I just had less energy. And so sometimes it's like, I don't have my curveball today, or I don't have my fastball.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:44

Uh can someone else come in and pitch? And then someone always steps up.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

And they're willing to do it. And also then I've found that too, that I'm like, oh, I'm allowing other people to like share their gift. Whenever maybe I didn't realize they have the same or similar vibe of wanting to be that person.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

And then you can really turn it up the next day. Because you're rested. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you so we've talked a little bit about your personality. You do have an infectious personality, you laugh a lot, you joke a lot, people like you. Uh has that always been the case? Um like when you're young, were you like the ham at school? Were you joking a lot, lead role in the play?

SPEAKER_01 17:22

I definitely I was in theater, but only like in junior high, like middle school. Um, I did enjoy that. And but I didn't, I don't know if I grew up. I don't think I grew up totally this way. I am so I'm the youngest child. So I also think like birth order plays a big role into things.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

And so I also know that I I think part of it is like I grew up in like sometimes like weird family dynamics of like uh when the parents are fighting, I can be the youngest person, I'm gonna be cute, I'm gonna be funny, I'm gonna like lighten the mood. And so I I kind of I've realized I'm like, oh, I still have that kind of as almost as a coping mechanism for certain situations. Um, but then I think it also came into uh a point where I like I think we have this expectation of jobs as adults where it's like we sometimes you have to act a certain way or do a certain thing. And VU has created this space where it's like really okay. We value each other showing up wholly as them. And it was yeah, a a lot changed in my life when I started at VU 10 years ago. I had just gotten divorced and had removed like removed back to Missouri. And so it was kind of like I kind of got to like be a whole new version of myself in some way because people didn't know this past version of me. Um, and so not that I'm a I don't think I'm a different person than I was 10 years ago, but I I think these people didn't know me. So I just got to be who I was without zero expectations.

SPEAKER_03 18:50

Yep. No, that makes sense. That resonates with me. I remember in my life doing a study abroad as my last semester of college. I'd done four years of college and I saved one semester. Go to a study abroad, and it was 250 American kids living in a castle for five months. That was the experience. Yeah, it's Hallboard. We didn't learn any magic. Uh that's what it was. That's how it was set up. But the beauty of it is no one knew me at all. So all the like approval structures that I'd had in my life, all the persona that I had in my life, um, you had to start fresh.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:22

And so then it was like, well, if I'm starting fresh, who would I be?

SPEAKER_02 19:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:25

It's almost like moving to a new city. You can be anyone you want.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:28

And then it's also like, but I have to be true to kind of who I am and who I'm wired. So but it was like reordering stuff, kind of like what you're talking about with out of some hard stuff, maybe a divorce, a move, a new job. And it's like, oh wait, I don't have to carry the baggage of who I was.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

And I kind of get to, yeah, this point of I don't have to no one knows maybe the hard stuff unless I want them to know this hard stuff. Or they don't know, like I, yeah, just really kind of recreating who I ultimately wanted to be showing up each day. Um, and honestly, every whenever I have a couple friends that I started with, well, I actually am very close with many people that I started with day one at VU, and they're in my like close circle, and they're like, You you on day one were so shy and so nervous. And so I I was. I think it that's partially just like we have this weird if you're not a VU or it's like hard to understand, I think, what it's like to come into this company where it's like kind of no rules. Like you get to wear what you want to wear, and like I don't know, you don't have to act or be a certain way. And I remember just being like, I've never had a job like that. I've always had a job where you dress up and like been in like I don't know, professional careers where you're really, I don't know, just dressed up every day. Well, like the socialization is narrower and all of a sudden you're like, You're sitting in a cubicle and like there's not as much integration and it's not focused necessarily on culture. Um, and so I just remember being like, okay, how am I supposed to act in this, like, how much how am I supposed to? I do a lot of supposed to things in my life too. But um, and I just like actually, whenever I realized, I'm like, oh, there is no supposed to, I don't think, here. Like everyone will accept me for who I am. But it does, I I am extroverted, but it does take me a little bit of time to realize like where and when it's appropriate, or like who are the people that I am okay to like, I guess, fully let all the walls down. So I guess I feel like I am shy a little bit until I get I need a little warm-up period with people.

SPEAKER_03 21:26

So I came into work one day and a guy was walking with me, and I think this is a standard phrase, but it hit me at a right time and it meant something, and maybe it's for this because it's kind of what you're talking about. But he said, Go be you today. And I was like, How empowering is that? And then I almost heard like okay, if there is a higher power and there is God, and he did fearfully and wonderfully make me, and he did design me. That doesn't mean like I can't grow and I don't need to change stuff and I can't lament and I don't make mistakes, but it just means like wired me up in a way, be that way, don't be the way that all these other people tell you you have to be.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Yeah. Actually, I say something very similar to that. So, like, um, I've transitioned into a role where I am training people at work. And that is one of the coolest things that I think at VU is like we hired you each, like God made you like uniquely. Um, and like we hired you because of the uniqueness that you each bring. Like, I don't want you, I'm not training you to sound like robots on the phone. I want you to show up authentically to the veterans and the people that we serve in a way that feels like you. So I'm not telling you what to say. I'm giving you a scope of like this, but it's like show up as you, like come here as you. This is what I think makes VU great. This is why we get to have all these cool experiences, is that we're not making and no one feels that they should. I hope they don't feel like they need to be a certain way. They get to show up as you every day.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

Yeah, it's a lot of freedom in it, living that way. So, in that freedom, we've talked work, inner circle, some upbringing stuff. What about like now? Let's call it a rainy Wednesday night and you need a jolt or you need some fun or you want to laugh. What do you go to? What are some things that are like, hey, here's my joy stimulus package or my happiness stimulus package? This makes me feel good and I think it's healthy and I love it.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Um I really like well, not well, but I karaoke. Oh no, with friends, but like Green Lancer! What a green. I know that sounds like oh, it feels like really kind of like cheesy to be like that. But I don't want to do it alone. Like, I mean, like I want a group of friends to like go and do it. You go to I'll sing alone. That's fine. You do it at bars. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:33

You go out to public places and you grab a microphone and you sing with a couple of friends.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Or even I'll sing a solo. That's fine. I like a duet. I'll sing whatever.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

Go-tos. What are some go-tos?

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Oh, I have a whole list on my phone. Give me a couple. Give me a couple of so um Earl Had to Die, Dixie Chicks, that's a good one. It's a cloud crowd pleaser. I try to sing something that will get the crowd going too, because then that takes away this pressure of everyone's looking at me because some people also go to karaoke to like perform. Yes. It's like their voice at audition or something. And it's like, wow, you're going, you're probably not going to be discovered on Saturday night and begin to see in Columbia, Missouri.

SPEAKER_03 24:10

The people who go to perform at karaoke typically aren't people who maybe should be performing.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Yeah. Yeah. They should be having fun. Yes, they should be. Yes. Yeah. There's always like a few that it's like, wow, you really okay. And they're regulars. Like, I think, yeah. So that's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 24:25

Um athletics are this way too. The more a person talks about their junior high sports accolades, the less likely they were to have really earned those accolades or to be good at sports. Yes. I feel like karaoke's kind of like that too. The more you're up there to perform, the less likely you are very good at performing.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 24:41

So you're up there to have a good time, get the crowd into it, get hype. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Celine Dion is also one of those. Oh no. Like badly. That's a big pull. Like badly. I am not a good finger. Like my heart will go on? Yes. You do the fist? Oh yeah. You get the fist up? Yes. Okay. Yes. Um, because or yeah. Uh it's just like everyone loves it. And even if you sing it so bad.

SPEAKER_03 24:59

Well, they're gonna sing that one. You can't help but sing that one. Uh are you a pretty good singer?

SPEAKER_01 25:03

No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

You have conviction though.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Yes. I mean, like, in church, like like singing karaoke feels like a whole different thing than like singing at church or like singing in this, like, where it's like, I'm like, oh, I think I have an okay voice. Like, I'm probably I don't really I did choir in like middle school and a little bit of high school, but like not badly, but not super well. Not not trying to go famous in any way. But then when I sing karaoke, I'm like, gosh, I'm really bad. Like, I don't know why. There's like a different let like layer that I feel like I have to sing louder and like singing into a microphone, and then you're all like breathy at the end of it. I'm like, why do you lose your breath when you're singing? You don't know. You have to be pretty in shape, I think. They're singers and they're dancing too. Well, maybe that's it too, is that you're kind of like trying to get the crowd going.

SPEAKER_03 25:48

These people do like a two-hour show and they're carwheeling, backflipping, and singing.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

It's really impressive. That's why I think every time my if my especially if my friends and I are all doing it together, we're all like, why are we like so out of breath at the end of this? And it's like, well, I was like, we just performed. This was a performance. They are welcome.

SPEAKER_03 26:05

I think I think probably karaoke is one of my nightmares. Oh never done it. Oh I think it's one of those things where if you rip the band-aid off, then you're probably okay. Yeah. But the longer you go without ripping the band-aid off, it's like I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

So have you ever karaoked?

SPEAKER_03 26:19

No, not ever.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Oh, no.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

I've I've the person who, if there's a karaoke environment, I will on purpose exit the environment because there's a chance someone around me might chant my name or something, and then I'm like locked in or I feel weird.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Yeah. Yeah. And I so I have to also be super mindful of being like, I don't force people to do this.

SPEAKER_03 26:38

This is totally But that's not how most people are. I know.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

Well, it's not I'm not always that way.

SPEAKER_03 26:44

Because usually it's like, hey, let's find the pressure, pressure.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

And I'm like, I'm like, I really um my best friend, like I remember the first time we ever karaoke. Well, I mean I don't know if it was the first time, but she was like, I really don't want to do this. And she definitely had some liquid courage to like get up and do it. But now she's always like, let's do it. Let's like, and she's like, I don't I think there's like this point of like, you just have to let it go of like it doesn't matter what anybody thinks. Like, also somebody else is gonna sing bad, and it's okay. You're in a bar, people probably feeling good, you're good.

SPEAKER_03 27:13

That's that's why I have to be careful in those environments because I have an immensely popular podcast that we're talking on right now. And then I I'm in front of people with a microphone a fair bit. And so then people are like, Oh, you're super comfortable on stage or something. And I'm not.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

You told me that once. Okay, you walked up to my desk one time at work and you said, Can I can I ask you what you do? Like you just sit at your computer and I was like, I do sit at my computer and I work. But then I was like, Well, I I train people and like I give presentations to our department about how to be better at this. And you're like, Do you like speaking in front of people? You must we had this conversation. Yeah, yeah. And you were like, I hate speaking in front of people. And you could have picked my job off the ground. Like, I was shocked by it.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

I try to learn from you because you feel confident. It's like I fake confidence. Tell me how to have the real thing.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

It seems like fake I sometimes that there's just a really big layer of fake it till you make it. Like and that's okay too. Because I think the real for me at least, it's like that first like five minutes or something of a if I'm doing an hour-long talk at people, it's like I'm nervous for the first five minutes and then it's like gone.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

Then you're yeah, yeah. I I think I'm that way too. The leading up to it's bad, the beginning, you gotta lay in the beginning now. So it might stay bad, but if you lay in the beginning, then you're just in the groove and you're going. I imagine karaoke's similar, but I don't think I would ever get in the groove. And so it'll just be three minutes. I need you just need to pick a very short song when I do it.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Yeah. Um I mean just one that I think if everyone in the crowd knows it, like Mr. Brightside, like Mr. Brightside.

SPEAKER_03 28:39

It's the right crowd, people will sing that stuff. They're not like great singers.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

No, no one is. That's the thing, is like the crow if the crowd is singing, they can't hear you.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

But even the band, if you pick a band that's a little more like rock-based or maybe like like Bleak 182 wasn't known for their vocals, yeah, or something. Uh that feels like a good fit. You do Celine Dion, so it's like it's like pulling out Aretha or something.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

I don't know. Like it's not good. Like I promise you, like it's bad, but it's heart-wrenching, and people will they love a theatrical performance, you know?

SPEAKER_03 29:08

I love that. So karaoke on a rainy Wednesday, that gets you going, gets the music flowing.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Yeah. I can't say I probably have ever done it on a rainy Wednesday, but I'm gonna add it to my list of something to do now.

SPEAKER_03 29:17

There you go. Yeah. I will add it to my list, but it'll be the long list. I think like when I'm 78.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

And yeah, what a perfect yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

Yeah. I also want to say I would love to see a 78-year-old person.

SPEAKER_03 29:29

That's why I think it'd be fun because it's like and if I got up there on the mic and I'm 78 and sickly, because the way I eat, I will be. Uh and I got up there and I like hit the mic, too, too, too. Hey youngsters. Yeah. I've never done this, and it's on my bucket list and I'm about to kick the bucket. And then I sing my song. I think they'd all like they carry me on the side.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:48

Okay. So I'm gonna put it on my calendar.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

I can't wait. I send me an invite. I will.

SPEAKER_03 29:54

This will be fun.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:55

A reunion of two on a rainy Wednesday. Yes, yes. Now I just gotta pick my song. I'm gonna go big. I'm gonna do something big. I might do some, I don't know, something classical, something great.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

Yeah. I wonder what it will be.

SPEAKER_03 30:07

Paparati or something. Just bring it some opera.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

I don't know. Or the like nastiest pop song that's going. Um something just by the 78-year-old geezer.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

I know. That's where it's like, they're like, I didn't expect this.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

Spit some Kendrick at him.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Um so this past Friday night, um my s my my mom was in town, and my sister and I took her two daughters and my mom to Missouri Symphony, the Missouri Symphony, downtown in Missouri Theater, and it was uh it was called Define Gravity, and they had all of these Broadway hits. And anyway, I'm giving you too much information. But this person in front of us, uh the throughout it, I'm like kind of humming. I'm not singing, I'm not singing. I think I know where this is going and I love it. It is like they're singing the circle of life, and they're singing The Little Mermaid. How do you not like feel like you're in this? And even like the wicked songs, and I my sister's next to me, and the lady in front of us turned around and snapped at her. And then like at intermission, I was like, Did that lady snap at you? And she said, She snapped at you. And I was like, She snapped at you? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

How old was she?

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Uh I bet she was 30. What? I was like, sh I was like, ma'am, I just was like, What are you? You said 30? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 31:22

She was, I mean, like that is far too young to be snapped at people.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

And I was like, and then they encouraged people to sing at one point, and so then I was like, what are we doing? But it wasn't.

SPEAKER_03 31:31

When they said encourage you to sing, you should have snapped at her. Like, let's go.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

She got up and moved. She didn't come back after intermission. She didn't move. I either she was so offended she left, I doubt it. But or she moved, but I just was like, oh, and my sister's like, it wasn't me. But I was like, I think you were humming. It was just humming.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

I was just I wish I could find this woman and have her on here and hear her side of the story. Like, she was belting it. I know. I've seen her at karaoke, she does a lane.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

Yeah, I know, yeah. And I was like, oh man, it was really just humming. But I was like, I guess, I don't know. Sometimes when the when you know the song, how do you not want to like at least hum along? Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:06

I mean, the point of those songs is to get people.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

And I that's what I was like, they were it was like real Broadway uh singers playing or singing along to the symphony and stuff. So it was like very well performed. And I'm like, I'm not trying to outshine them.

SPEAKER_03 32:17

I'm not a Broadway singer, but no, they're inviting you into it. Yes, I think that's great. Yeah, uh, I feel sorry for her. She needs to listen to a fiercer lie and just let joy happen like that.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Just let joy happen. But maybe it was so joyful for her. That's why I was like, oh, I maybe I was stealing her joy.

SPEAKER_03 32:33

Maybe it's possible. Uh but a good compromise happened, a snap, and then she moved. I know. That's fine. That's fine. She didn't come back. Maybe her seat got upgraded. Yeah. Who knows? Who knows? Yeah. Okay. Uh, so we'll tie this off here. Any uh last words, last thoughts, happiness, joy, anything, anything we've talked about, and you don't have to have some great send-off. Maybe you can just sing us off. But do you have any any final thoughts before we say goodbye?

SPEAKER_01 32:57

I don't know. I I like I live a life that more is more. And so that's like hard sometimes because more is not always more, but when it comes to joy, like I just really um kind of my motto lately has been like be what you want to attract. And so I people have I people have told me that they're like, wow, you just really are such great culture. Are you like such this, that? And I was like, Well, I just want to be what I'm surrounded by. So I want to radiate that. So hopefully it brings it back to me in some way.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

Those are really good words. Like, more is more. And when it comes to joy, for sure, like some of the good attributes in life, that's the whole point of like these conversations, even is like we portion off our plate as if there's not a huge buffet. And it's like, well, heap it on there, and you can go back for more. And like, hope and love and joy are this way. It's like endless amounts, the more love I have in my life, the better. And if I have a life with a bunch of love, be vigilant and get after more because what's it flows over, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

So I think those are great words. I love that. Thank you for everything you shared today. Well, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

This is really fun.

SPEAKER_03 34:08

Awesome. Well, uh, for those of you who joined us, thank you. And I hope you'll come back next time. This would have been Rachel, and it's been a great conversation. Thanks for joining us in it.