Groove Don't Lie
Groove Don’t Lie the Series is about intimate discussions with musicians, authors, visual artists, athletes, and other luminaries about what groove means to them, how they experience groove in their work and personal lives, and what can be done to find the groove when it is missing. The secret ingredient is the host, Gerry Brown, the OG groove master whose history and legacy as a musician, longevity, personality and demeanor seamlessly connect the guests and the audience. The backstage tales, insider information, and the true stories behind some of the most remarkable concerts, albums, artworks, books, and athletic accomplishments of the last century will appeal to fans, historians, and up-and-comers alike, while inspiring everyone with strategies for tapping into the universal, eternal, and authentic groove.
Groove Don't Lie
Gerry Brown and Brian Dunne discuss groove (part 2 of 2)
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This is part 2 of Gerry Brown's conversation with the perennially stalwart percussionist, Brian Dunne (Hall and Oates, Patti Labelle, Joe Walsh, Sammy Hagar, Ben Folds, Ariana Grande and Chaka Khan etc.). You know why? Because groove don’t lie!
Hey everybody, Jerry Brown here on the Groove Online Podcast. And here we go. Part two of Mr. Bryant Duff. Now we get to the TV side of it. And I've and I'm speaking about your time of being in that loop with with Ray Chu. Incredible music director. How is sitting in in those situations? And you know, like you know, many people may not understand about, you know, with TV. They may see these award shows or what have you, or you know, and you know, they hear the band, but I know there are things that are going on that people have not a clue about. In real time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01They're not, you know, you know, no, you're not getting a second chance. There's no second chances.
SPEAKER_00Nope. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01First take.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Yeah, man. Ray, yeah, Ray. Uh, I've done a lot of stuff with Ray. Um, live gigs, TV stuff. Um, the the Showtime at the Apollo uh thing with Steve Harvey came came back and did we did one season, um uh primetime TV and truly live. Um and here's the other thing. We would do it was done, we would do like four shows, five shows in one day, and they would empty out the whole Apollo theater and bring in a whole new audience. It would be five shows in one day. Yeah, it'd be 2 a.m. and we would be starting a show. We would we would be there at 6 30 in the morning and like do all this all this stuff, and then we'd start shooting a show, and we would just do show after show after show after show. It was either three or four a day, and it would it would go till two o'clock in the morning, and they would be bringing in a new audience. There would be a line down the street, yeah. And so it's like you think you're fried? This is like be really being fried because it's it's you're you're you're you're fried physically, but mentally, because it's live TV, yeah. And you know, these contestants, especially with the the way the internet is now, if you make a mistake, like the contestants is gonna make a mistake, and then at that point, that's when you have to have your radar up. And it's like, okay, am I following the paper? Gotta look at Ray. And Ray's gonna Ray's gonna guide us to where we need to be. So that's that's that's that's exhausting, you know, in the moment in the moment, if should that happen. And the other thing is you don't want to be the one that messes up on a poor contestant. Because now if they now what if they don't win? They're gonna say, hey, that band, that band messed me up, right? So it's hard not to consider all these things. So it's it's uh it's a tall order, and for the guy leading the ship, it's multiply it by a hundred. Ray has producers yelling in his ear, all right, let's go. And the the he he has the band in another ear so he can he can talk to us. He has the music so he can hear us. We have he has a guy telling a guy, all right, hit we have a guy like controlling Pro Tools. Um, if a if a contestant gets knocked, gets uh booed, because you know they boo the contestants sometimes, and then the sandman comes out and sweeps you off the stage. But we have to have playoff music prepared for that, right? So it's like we would hear Ray Ray Ray's like, okay, if someone's getting booed, just be prepared, one, to stop, because I'm gonna cut you off. And if you hear the horn go off in the house, that means that you're gonna hear a quick count off in your ears for the playoff music. And it would be it was like a pre-recorded voice, uh pre-recorded voice of someone going, one, two, three, four, and then you play. Yeah, so it's like, and it's and it's truly live. You know, it's not like you know, it's live, but it's like remote recorded, and we can fix it later. It's like, no, it's like really live. So yeah, this guy, he takes those situations, just eats it up, spits it out like it's nothing, man. It's it's pretty it's pretty remarkable. You gotta have a you gotta be a pretty special person to deal with that level of stress. I I I I uh which is why I try to be, you know, that's why I try to take care of the professional side of things, because I know what MDs are going through. Because these people are counting on the rest of us. And if we're late or not paying attention, or the millions of negative things we can do, if you're not putting yourself in that guy's place or that girl's place, it's not a it's not cool. So yeah, it's I respect musical directors. It's it's it's a heavy job, heavy lifting going on there.
SPEAKER_01A lot of heavy lifting and something that you know, I'll just bring it up, and and that many people may not you know realize that you know everyone has their yeah, you know, I'm I'm good and stuff like that. But you know, you can't be replaced. Oh yes, you don't want that to happen.
SPEAKER_00Yes, there's a lot of talent out there.
SPEAKER_01There's a lot of talent out there, you know, there are people out there waiting for you to F up. Yep. So what are you gonna so what are you gonna do? You need I mean, yeah, you gotta be on you know paying attention, you know what your attention span it has to be stellar on point.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. This guy's counting on you. You gotta be there, you gotta be ready, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So so I gotta ask you, so I gotta ask you this. Because, you know, I I never did it for for as many uh, you know, when you talk about this TV thing, you know, this T you know with the with Rachel and Apollo. But for me, like paying attention like to Stevie. Yeah, you may have a set list, but if he desires, if he decides to do something else, you ain't gonna tell him none. Uh you gotta deliver. You gotta deliver. You know, you know, play the you know, playing the song and then he breaks it down. You know, you gotta watch it, you know, break it down, is with the audience. Then he breaks it down again, and then it's just he's just playing and then he goes into another song, whatever that is. And you got four bars. So many yeah, so many times after the gig, I'd be in my hotel room, I'd have to take a shower, and then just kind of like walk in the room because I'm I'm still up, man. It's like there's no going to yeah, there's no going to sleep, man. No, no, no, you don't understand. And and again, somebody waiting for you to mess up. You don't know who's watching you, you don't know who. Yeah, man. There's no throwaway gigs.
SPEAKER_00No, by the way, uh the band that John Scarpoole plays with, or used to play, but still plays with, the funk philharmonic, I used to sub in that band. And that is the reason I got into the average white band. We they did a gig at a club in New York City called The Barbat, and Brent Carter and Tom Bose were both singing together with the funk band at this point. And so I subbed, I subbed for the drummer Leaf Inkles team, and unbeknownst to me, Brent invited Alan Gorey and Ani McIntyre and the and the average white band guys to the club to see them because AWB and Tara would do some touring together. So, unbeknownst to me, these dudes are in the audience, and they're in New York auditioning drummers, which I had, which I was not a part of. I was not on their radar, but I happened to be playing with the Funk Philharmonic, and thank God I did my homework. And like you said, it's not, it's not, it's it's real. You don't know who's watching you. So I played that gig, and the next day the sax player called me up, Fred Victor, and he said, Man, I don't uh we're in New York doing auditions. Um, you weren't slated to audition, but Alan and Ani loved you. They saw you last night. So uh I think you should come and you should come and audition. So that's how that happens.
SPEAKER_01Beautiful.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Beautiful. You you were in point. Totally certain, ladies and gentlemen. This man is serving the music. That's what you gotta do. That's what you gotta do all the time. There are no throwaway gigs because you never know wherever you're playing. Yep, somebody's watching you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man. And I don't think I think I'm not as good enough, and I think most people are not good enough to decide when they turn on their A game or not. It's like A game every time. How dare you not bring your A game.
SPEAKER_01So that's that's a bit of the s of the saga, and it's it's ongoing, you know, with the with the T you know, the TV stuff. And but and by the way, are you you know, I I I saw, you know, like the you know, pretty much the complete uh Thanksgiving Thanksgiving day, Macy's parade. But you know I and I've I was gifted one time by Diana, so I was like right by what Macy's and uh so I I saw the parade and stuff like that. But so this year I was watching it, and it's like oh MD, Ray Chu. Yeah, so was that you on there?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh yeah, yeah, like I've done it five five out of the last six years. Oh beautiful, yeah, and that's also again Ray, just a beast. We go in in one afternoon and record like so many pieces of music. Some of the stuff, some of the artists will, it's just pre-records, but some of a lot of the stuff we just redo versions. I I would assume it's because it's cheaper to have us perform it rather than uh use use original versions. So it's like, man, and when those musicals come in, just like reading the reading those those like little pieces of like we'll do like a three-songs, three-song medley of whatever. Like I remember I did one year at Spongebob was the musical, right? And the conductors oftentimes will come into the session with the drummer and then use Ray's orchestra, right? This guy came in and he and he won, I did it. So it's like you're sight reading a book, and it's like and and it's being recorded for a couple people to watch on TV. So it's it's it's yeah, it's like every time the musicals come through and when the Macy's thing happens, I'm secret, I'm secretly praying, please bring the drummer, just for the musical theater part. But you know, sometimes sometimes I gotta do it and sometimes I don't. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Hot seat.
SPEAKER_00Yes, hot seat.
SPEAKER_01Hot seat. So again, you know, to visit Hollow Notes, where you know, 16 years, man. Longevity on on any gig, and particularly when it's it's double digits, man. That means that means everything. Were you expecting, did you, you know, were you expecting that it was going to turn into this long-term relationship? You know, you know, uh, it's like you I mean, just think it's like you you're on the gig, but then damn, I've been on the gig this. Yeah, I was not expecting I'm still here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I'm uh I I I I I was not even thinking. This is not a gig that I came in and auditioned for either. This is sort of a situation where I just came in to sub for his television show, The Live from Daryl Cell Show, um, and became the sub. Daryl liked it. Um, and then I went a few months later, I subbed for one little like maybe week and a half, two-week run with the band, with Hollow Notes with John and Daryl. Um, and I became the sub for that. And then at a certain point, they just decided to give me both gigs. And uh, so I wasn't expecting to even be on the gig. And then for it to this be this many years, no, no. But uh I'm I'm uh where everybody in that band, not just me, I mean, we really like we know that we're super lucky um to play this timeless music. Um, they take care of us, and they're they're just they're very old school. Um they just they take care of the musicians, and uh and they're great people with us, they treat us really well. Um so yeah, I mean, and uh the other thing is there's very little direction going on, no one's ever telling me what to play. Um, if someone makes a mistake, it doesn't matter. It's oh wait, the mistake had happened. Yeah, that's that it already happened. That's that's ancient history. Next, they don't care. They're down and they're loose, they're very loose. There's no rehearsals. Like the first time I played with that band, I didn't even get a sound check. I got show, I got show tape sent to me by the MD, and he gave me like 40 songs to check out, and I was like, I'm just subbing. Can can we're not gonna play more than like 15, right? Can you give me like can I just do like 25? He's like, nope, he wants to just be able to choose. I'm like, okay. And it was Virginia Beach, outdoor gig, and like not even a sound check, a line check. Like, so not knowing like who counts off what tune, it was it was like so stressful. Um, but those guys, they're not down, they're not into rehearsing. Like, Daryl doesn't rehearse, he doesn't even do soundchecks with us. So when we come up with some new stuff to try, he says, go ahead, make up whatever you want, and then I'll react to you guys when I'm there. He's totally open. It's not like he doesn't like he doesn't want to rehearse, but then he doesn't allow us to do things. He's like, Yeah, you want to do try some new stuff, work it out and soundcheck, and go for it. We're free, we're totally free. Yeah, it's amazing. So, yeah, it's a very unique situation. Um, and and then add to that the TV show where we get to play with, you know, like can you imagine like playing money, money, money with uh the sp the um DOJs? It's like what? So it's it's we're so lucky, you know. There's a lot of people that can, you know, there's a lot of guys that can do what I do, and and so but I'm here, so I'm super lucky, and I'm I'm uh very appreciative of it. Wow.
SPEAKER_01You know, the I'm thinking about your buddy, my brother John Scarpula. When you when you were saying that you know, you only got you only got uh like a tape and you did your homework. He mentioned about when he played with tower power. And they gave him the you know, they kind of they gave him the music. And I th I think on the first gig they said, You want to put your music up? He says, No, I no, I got everything memorized. What do you want to do? What do you want to do? That's beautiful, man. That that's diligence. Non noncomplacency. That's that's dedication, man. That's so I want to ask you this after all these decades of doing what you've been doing, and bands and artists what would you want musicians to say about Brian Dunn when you're not in the when you're not in the room?
SPEAKER_00Oh boy. Uh man Yeah. I just want to be someone that that people know, musicians know that I'm I'm I'm I'm there to support the what we're doing first before anything. Because I'm confident that uh if I'm doing my job and I'm I'm putting the I'm putting the music and the song first, uh I'm automatically gonna sound good. So I don't have to worry about sounding good. We're all gonna sound good collectively, so then we all individually shine. So yeah, if I can be that guy that those thoughts come to their mind when they think of me, then great, great. I'd like to be known as funky too, if that's possible.
SPEAKER_01From the things that you played. That's a given. That's a given, man. You don't you don't get on those gigs if you if if you're not funky. Or or if you get on the gig, it may be NFL. Not for long. And again, man, you know, you know, the you know, what they get, you know what could be said is that, you know, for you, for what you've done, your payback has been the callback. And that's it's you've had it in you've had an incredible ride, and you still ride.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01That's a beautiful thing, man.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Got any stories? Uh any any uh uh little stories you want to?
SPEAKER_00Actually, yeah, man, we were talking about you were mentioning you were mentioning train and Elvin and so I uh I met my wife at a blues club that I was playing on Monday nights, Terra Blues in the West Village. It was like a funk night, and uh uh I meet this girl, my my my now wife, and she says to me, she says, you know, I I work for a drummer. And I said, Really? And she's from Brazil, and she's and she had she had she had a heavy accent, more of an accent then than she does now. And she says, I work for a drummer, yeah. And she didn't tell me what she did, so I said, Well, here in New York City? She said, Yep. And I said, Oh, what's his name? I mean, maybe I know him. And she goes, um, Max Roach. So I said, Exactly. So I said, I said, um an elderly gentleman. She said, yeah, Max Roach. And I said, uh, I was like having a stroke. I said, do you realize this is a this is a a national treasure, an international treasure? Like this is like a game changer. And she's and she she said, she said, I know he's good. She goes, I I assumed he was important because sometimes I would, you know, she she was his housekeeper, by the way. She said, sometimes I'd go to his apartment and um there'd be a celebrity in there with him. And and I said, Yes, I said, this is like I spent countless hours like playing along with Clifford Brown and Max Rose Records. Like, this is the this is one of the architects. And she she to this day we laugh about it. And then because of her, I I got to meet him. I used to go and pick her up at the house, at his apartment, and uh I got I kinda got to know him because of her. They love him and his his daughters and they love my wife. So it was uh a pretty amazing scenario. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Your ancestors they've been with you. They're with us. It's whether we listen to them or not and the situations that they put you in. So you that's how you met you know, your your wife. I mean come on, man. Come on, man You can't even write you can't even write stuff like that. I mean you can try and write stuff like this, but this is truth, man. And Brazilian Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah. I'm going I'm we're going to uh uh in a week in a week and a half, I'm going to uh the end of the carnival. I'm gonna get to see some and hear some You gonna love that?
SPEAKER_01You're gonna love that, man. Beautiful man.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.
SPEAKER_01You know, it's like Yeah, man. The golden rake. Because because you've been you've been you've been raking it in and all these gigs and stuff like that, man. It's beautiful, brother. What a blessing, man.
SPEAKER_00Cool man, thank you.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, thank you, thank you.
SPEAKER_00Thanks so much for for talking to letting me talk to you, man.
SPEAKER_01But this is just beginning, man. This is just beginning. We like to thank Mr. Brian Dunn for all that he's done. Because he's a bad man, and for his appearance on the Groove Don't Lie Podcast. Thank you, Brian.