Gerry Brown and Eddie Tuduri discuss groove (part 1 of 2)

Gerry’s guest for this two-part episode is the drummer and philanthropist, Eddie Tuduri. Eddie’s career spans more than 50 years. He has drummed for the likes of The Beach Boys, Del Shannon, Dr. John, Ike Turner, Ronnie Hawkins, and Marianne Faithful, but he is most proud of The Rhythmic Arts Project (TRAP), which he founded in 1999 after experiencing a life changing surf accident. TRAP empowers people of all abilities and ages through the transformative power of…you guessed it…groove.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Hello everybody, this is Jerry Brown for the Groove Don't Like Podcast. This is part one of two parts. And today's guest is Mr. Eddie Tadur. Eddie's career has spent more than 50 years as drummer percussionist for the likes of the Beach Boys, Dr. John, Ronnie Hawkins, and Mary Ann Faithful. And Jim Mastina too. However, in 1997, Eddie put together this program called the Rhythmic Arts Project. And this was because of his life-changing surface. Trapp empowers people of all abilities and ages through the transformative power of rhythm. So without further ado, meet Eddie to do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

You probably do the same thing. Yeah, I do. I do. We've been around as long as we have, and maybe maybe I'll leave it a little longer. It's I can't remember. You know, there and those are just the ones I can remember, right? All the gigs we did, well, unfortunately, the forgetful, the ones we want to forget, we never mentioned, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Well, we may never mention, but at the same time, they served the purpose for our journey.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Some folks are just hard to work with. And I I I I don't I never could understand how the thing happens. Dwight Yoakam uh was a good friend of mine when we were younger, and we used to ride motorcycles together. I wasn't much of a country player, but the a lot of people would hire me to to play those games around town. And Dwight and I were hanging out and we'd do little gigs for 40 bucks and hockey tons and you know, and and then I went away for four years to Canada. When I came back, I ran into him at Josefina's, this really cool nightclub. And he was like, Eddie, man, you know, you can't you won't believe what happened. And I've been on Johnny Carson and I sold a million records. I hugged him. I said, I'm so proud of you, man. And what, you know, he's a good friend. I thought this is great. And maybe six months went by and he called me up, asked me if I'd do a tour with him. And I said, Yeah, of course, you know. And when we got on the road, he had really, I loved White. Don't get me wrong. He just, but he turned into someone entirely different. I'm sure you've experienced this, you know, with with artists. And I, you know, I prefer to, you know, try to understand where they're coming from rather than uh be angry about it. Certainly not anymore. I don't get angry, but hardly anything anymore. But in those days, it was tough being on the road with with a a tyrant, anybody. I mean, all those people I played, but not all of them were sweethearts, you know. Engelbert Humperdang, for instance, was, you know, you know, mild mannered. No. So yeah, it's funny how how different attitudes affect people differently, and as they get older, they get even worse. They either get better or worse. You know, I I don't know. I try to stay out of it. Yes, uh luckily I I've I have my trap program that's God sent. When I broke my neck, that happened, and and that's what I concentrate on. That's where my energy goes, you know.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

And it's impactful because you're impacting people all over the world or wherever that program is.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

It's impactful to the kids, to the teachers. I was grateful enough to to to go through the course. Yes, I did the course. So it's it's it's incredibly impactful. And those who are listening to the podcast, please go to the website, traplearning.org. Pretty simple. So one of my first questions is what were your those musical influences that drew you to drums and percussion?

SPEAKER_00 4:54

I, you know, I remember my family were were all from New York and everybody was in one of the five boroughs. And I would go downtown with what when they were with uh my my mom would be with her sister, and I'd they'd let me walk around. And I ran into uh I went by the Metropole, which was just a few blocks from my aunt's house, and Jean Krupper was playing there. I was 12, I was very young, and it was an afternoon show, and he if you remember the Metropole, like the band set up behind the bar.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

And I they wouldn't let me in, you know. And I told the guy at the door, I said, Man, you know, you have to let me see this. It's so important to me. And, you know, I cried on his shoulder for a minute, and he said, Okay, kid, he let me stand in the doorway. But I was still only from here, you know, across the room. There was Gene Krupper. And for me, that was it, man. And it wasn't it wasn't even his playing, which was I I loved, but it was his watching him and the look on his face and the smile on his face. Remember, Hindu Chancellor reminded me a lot of of him, the way Ndugo played, and he smiled, and he was always he was just joyful to watch. And and that's how I looked at Gene Cooper. Everybody else, you know, had their uh, you know, Buddy Richards and and of course I loved all all the uh jazz players, but but Gene somehow really struck me. I said, I want to be like that when I grow up, you know. So and you know, there were there were people, Jill Morella and and Louie Belson. Louie and I became friends. He used to come to my house in Srimano. I'd make him play for his dinner and I'd make me plays. He would come over and play. I had a drum set in the living room, I always made a play. And when we hung out, he was a great, great guy, a great influence on me. I still have his original book around here somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Wow, wow incredible. Well the fact that you know you you were influenced by a groove icon at the age of twelve.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

Uh there's you know, there's you can see that on YouTube, but there's another thing to be in the in the presence of greatness.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah, you can touch them.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like even if even if you across the room, I was like, but there he is. There it is, there it is. And you see, yeah, you're seeing all that.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Oh, seeing Louis Bilson play in your living room. You know, I mean, I thought you don't get the meatballs until you show me this.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

That's that's priceless. So so so obviously, I mean, you know, Cooper early mentors, you know, did that shape your playing style, or were there some other people that you heard, you know, that that started, you know, f formulating, you know, your groove?

SPEAKER_00 8:06

In the beginning, I I can't really put my finger on any anyone until I was already out and playing, like when I was a a a teenager and working clubs in New York State and and uh playing. I I think I told you about playing with these two guys, these two Italian guys from upstate New York, Joe Campisi and Jill Pel uh Jay Pelzone. They we had a trio, and I was young, and they would yell at me if I overplayed, because I was trying to, you know, try when when you're young, you play crazy, you know, you're not thinking about it. Can I do this? You know, and they weren't they weren't very nice about, you know, they'd say, don't do that. They'd stop in rehearsal and say, what the heck are you doing? You know. Well, you know, but don't don't do that. Don't play in the middle of a of a fra you know, that's a that's a flaw in the groove. It's a flaw in the groove. You don't want to be a flaw in the groove. You want to be in the pocket for your whole life, you want to be in the pocket. And that stuck with me, you know. And I overplay just, you know, when you you you get a little frisky when you're 22 and overplay a little bit like, you know, and uh for me it was easy. I only knew three beats. I can imagine you had a hard time trying not to play everything you knew. But uh yeah, they they hammered it into me, you know, make sure you play for the band, for the music, for the pocket. That's what your whole life is gonna be about. And and it was, it is, it still is, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

You know, there's there's something that that you just said I've experienced it. I think it has to do with the times that we grew up. And that was not that people were trying to be mean to you, but they were just trying to get a point across. And and I've I've I've seen, I've heard recently, yo, you didn't have to, you know, I w I wish you could uh say this to me in a little nicer way. And it's like no, no, right. Your name is not on the marquee. Are you paying the band? Right. You are replaceable. Someone who, you know, in other words, don't expect these niceties or is or that the band leader has to be like a therapist. Don't expect that. Don't expect that. Take those lessons, it's all part of the journey. It's gonna do you good.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Yeah, it really, it really helped me tremendously. I remember playing in bars in upstate New York, and there were so many great drummers back in the day, in my day, you know, that played in little bars in in in Poughkeepsie or or in Brewster, New York. You know, there were guys who came up from the city just up the pike a little, and and they were in it, there was a band called The Donut from Brooklyn. They were so good. You you sat there with your mouth, your jaw dropped open the whole time. And there was a band called The Hip Pocket, another one. There were so many from that came up the pike, and they were all amazing guys. And the drummers were all trying to play like Dino Donnelly. So was I. Nothing wrong with that. No, no, and uh, you know, twirling his sticks and you know, and these guys would bounce the sticks off the back of the wall and never miss a beat. Every time I try to do that, I poke myself in the eye with a stick. I said, this isn't for me, you know. But yeah, there were some great players around in our day.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Yes, I mean we didn't. Between yeah, I mean, between, you know, you mentioned Dino Donnelly, Sonny Payne. Uh-huh. And you see those videos, and it's like they were doing that back then.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Jack Dijonnay, for me, Jack, and uh, you know, one of the nicest people I've ever met, and kind and giving. Incredible loss. It's incredible loss, man. Absolutely. I kept in touch with him. We became friends back in the 80s at a NAM show, and uh we hung out at the whole NAM show, and he was just one of the guys. He was so kind. You know, and and I remember him asking me to play something, some kind of boogaloo beat, he called it, and that he heard me play. And I was so I said, You want me to show you something? Can you say that? Or can I get that on tape? But you know, he was so open and kind and and and not affected, you know, he was just a a giving, kind man. Yeah, it was a big loss.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Big loss, big loss. So I I want to ask you a question like in the 80s. Yeah. And you know, for from your perspective. You know, what was it like touring during those times? In the the scale, if you can remember the scale of the energy of the shows, were there any memorable moments?

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Those shows that you're referring to were more in the 70s for me. I played I played obviously. In the 80s, I moved to Canada to to go play with a funk band. That was more important for me to find a band that I that fit. You know, at that time in my career, I didn't care about. I just wanted to play with great people and play it 10 nights a week. That's where I was at. In the 70s, I was doing the big gigs, and uh, you know, it wasn't until, yeah, even in the 70s, the big arenas and all that stuff that we played today. That was in the 70s for me. And there were a lot of defining moments. The best moment that I remember was, you know, my mom was uh grew up in Brooklyn and the whole family, everybody's from New York or Jersey or Long Island or the Bronx. And I was playing at Madison Square Garden. For us, you know, that was, you know, my mom was like, hey, Frank Sinatra played at Madison Square Garden. My son, she took out ads in local papers, right? My son at Madison Square Garden. With the Beach Boys, it were, they were pretty big in those days.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

And uh so I got them all, I got her a suite at the Pierre, her own limousine, and the whole family was there, but you know, this was she got real special treatment. And she got a front row seat at Madison Square Garden with the rest of the family. But we did this whole, they sat for the whole two-hour show. And I kept looking this to see if if they were enjoying it or, you know, and I couldn't really tell, couldn't really tell. And as soon as the show was over, I ran off stage down to find out if my mom liked it. You know, what'd she think? It was meant everything to me. So, Ma, what do you think? Hey, you know, your son at Madison, what about that? She said, I told you to get that damn symbol out of your face. I couldn't see your face. All right, next time, you know. But that was her that was her take on her son at Madison Square Garden. Not a playing moment, but the probably the Couldn't see you. She couldn't see my face because the symbol uh my son I used to play with the symbol up higher, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

It probably from where she was, it was just that, you know, the angle.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Yeah, she couldn't see, yeah. So but I did lower the symbol from then on and I learned a thing that I I don't know what you call, but I call it economy of motion. When we get older, we want that drum set. We don't want to be doing this.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

No, no, no, no, you can't, no.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Right here and play right here, right in that little cradle. I don't wanna be doing that anymore.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Somebody mentioned to me, they said, you know, Jerry, I I've seen a lot of videos of you, and I've noticed that your cymbals have gotten a lot lower. I said, Yeah, that well.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

Yeah. I can't be doing this all night anymore.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

No, I can't. I can't.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Why why were we doing that in the first place?

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Well, yeah. Hey, what you need to do is is right here. What you need to, you know. That's your zone. This is your zone. You gotta Yeah, yeah. It's not up there, man. You know.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

I had a little Pearl made me my own drum kit that we designed. It's 10 by 5, 12 by 6, uh I'm sorry, 10, 12 by 9, I think, and 14 by something. But they're all little drums. A 10, a 12, a 14, and an 18 by 18 inch bass drum. And a a pretty badass snare. The most important part of it in the uh in the bass drum. And everything is mic'ed. Everything is so the micing systems are so superior to what they were back in the 70s or 80s. So we we don't need more than that. And we don't need a pound either. You know. So I guess it takes a while to learn that.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

I'm using uh a 20 by 16 bass drum. Oh yeah. I mean it was there's a lot of great music that was rec recorded with the you know, with the 20. You know, yeah, you know, 22, I did that. I rather I rather have something a little smaller, a little tighter. You know, and then of course I I you know, I remember hearing you know, this phrase you can make a small drum sound big, but you can't make a big drum sound small. That's a good one. You know?

SPEAKER_00 18:11

So eighteen, if I elongate it, I'll still get the punch and I did. Yeah, you did.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

I'm sure you did.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

Yeah, sounds real good. I remember when I was doing I had the gifted artist records of I had all the kids with Down syndrome and various disabilities come in and sing or play or participate. And all my friends came in to play, uh, Craig Bessinet and Vinny and uh gosh, a bunch of people. They all I said, just come and play on my drums, you know. Everything set up and and they did, and they all loved that little tiny kit. They just loved it. And the studio sound was uh, you know, I had a DW kit before Pearl, but I had the same dimensions. John made me the this kit with, you know, I think it was a a 20 by 20, you know. It might have been no, it was a 20 by 20. And small toms, you know, and and close mic and who needed more than that. They sounded beautiful. You know, I have videos out on the online now, I think, with that drum set from years ago. And they still sound really, really good. So it's never about the size or how many drums you have.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Exactly. There's something about when you have a lot of drums, you feel like you need to play them.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Yeah, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

It's like, no, no, it's not about that, you know. That less is more.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Yeah. Yeah, I I stopped playing a lot.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

So uh of some of the people that I mentioned uh like Brenda Russell or Martha Reeves or Ronnie Loss, who are some of the some of Eddie Taduri's greatest hits with uh the you know uh greatest artists? Like who when you played with when you you just felt that yeah, the groove is there, man, their magic is there, and it's like I'm playing it, I'm playing with this person, but I can't believe I'm playing with this person. But at the same time, I'm looking at the people in the band and looking at the this this uh this this smiling faces and whatever in the aisles and seeing people moving, and it's like I'm doing this shit, man.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

I tell you, there's a moment that Michael McDonald, I I've known for many, many years. He is he's if everyone in our business were half as nice and kind and talented as he is, we'd all be a lot better off. He's a sweetheart. His whole family, and we spend Christmases together. They like my meatballs. It isn't me so much, but the sauce and meatballs. And anyway, uh Michael, I remember rehearsing with him for a benefit that he asked me to do with him i in Carpenteria, California. And I was in we were in this little room, and the only place, the only way we could set it up was if Mike was like right in front of me. My bass drum was here, and Mike was right there, you know, with the piano.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

We're we're playing, and I'm you know, we've been hanging out for a couple of days and we heard singing, and everything was, you know, pretty natural. But then we when we got into that position, we started playing What a Fool Believes.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

And I'm playing, and I I somehow looked up and went, Oh my god, that's Michael McDonald. You know what I mean? I just uh I do need me to be just totally enamored with an artist. And and he, you know, Bill Champlin, who I worked with for many years, Bill says, Bill's a great singer, but he said, you know, Michael could read, he could sing the phone book and people would love it. He's just got that voice and the the power and the spirit to move us. Nobody's I'm gonna see him here in in upstate New York at Bethel Woods, I think in July. So but uh that that was a moment, one of those moments you you'll never forget in your whole life, you know, and and they come out of nowhere. And then they're so shocking and you know better than good they're they're more than good they're like spiritual moments. The light goes on for a minute and you're you're in the middle of it and pfft you know so I mean I'm sure that's happened to you.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

It's happened to me yeah it's happened a few it's happened a few times. Uh you know it's like uh I yeah I I can't believe that I'm here were times where some songs that I played and it's where I'm I'm playing the songs, I'm I'm looking at him, I'm looking at the people and I I'll I'll I'll say it. It's like just a tear.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Yeah. It's like I can't you know it's like wow wow just one of those you know one of those moments Yeah I I hear you I I can't say that that happened to me a hundred times but when it happens you remember it. Yeah yeah really a lot of the folks I worked with were it was so long ago people like Del Shannon. Del Shannon was an icon in the sixties I guess before our time for sure but what a kind and gentle man he was and just accommodating and no ego what can I do to make him more comfortable I mean we don't hear that a lot in the business today at least I have no you don't you you don't even hear it just being on the streets you know or just to to witness acts of kindness yeah random acts of kindness yeah you yeah yeah you don't you don't see that you don't hear that I've I've I've uh like been at a you know a Starbucks and uh you know just yeah may I take your order you know anything else?

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Well how how about a smile? And and it some people you know you know but then some who were disarmed by that and then do the transaction and you know thank you very much and it's like they don't get there.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

No I I understand yeah it's it's difficult in in the world today to navigate negativity. It's there and it's it you know we I don't want to let it roll off my back. I want to somehow try to make that a little better for people by how I might act or feel and what kind of a vibe I'll put off but it's difficult man.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

You know it's the world can be difficult and hard and not everybody is in a good place every day so that's that that that's the a a constant reminder that people are all going to stuff.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Yeah yeah I usually say you know God help them and walk away but I mean it a lot of people throw God around like it's a a pinball and ball and so I if I use the if I use that I mean I really mean it and I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm a believer so you know yeah Eddie Chadori for part one of two look out for part two everybody