Gerry Brown and Brian Kilgore discuss groove (part 2 of 2)

This is part 2 of Gerry Brown's conversation with the percussion master, Brian Kilgore (Cold Play, Dr. Dre, John Williams, Danny Elfman, etc.). Because groove comes in many forms, but it never lies!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Hey everyone Jerry down here today is episode number two of the grandmaster podcast online podcast.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

I always talk about when I give clinics uh or or master classes at a college or whatever, I I like to talk about the the uh oh you know the Hippocratic oath of groove, which is first of all, do no harm. If you can't make it better, don't just clutter it up. You know, don't if it's work, if it doesn't need anything, don't do anything. If you can add something and make it better, then by all means, do so.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

By the way, I I I hope this brings a smile to your face. So I've come across some Tina Marie. And I'll play it when I'm doing some exercises.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

And I seem to listen to Square Biz. And I hear we're I hear the percussion going on behind us.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

I bet that that's Brian.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

No, that's not that was before I started working with her. That was Paulinho DeCosta.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

That was Paulino.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

Who, of course, is is a great master and huge inspiration to me. Uh I the first record I did with her was a record called Emerald City.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Ah, okay.

unknown 2:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:11

And after doing, you know, this the first tour I did with her was like four months or about four months long, and you know, we got to know each other, and I was playing, you know, congas, I did Afro-Cuban stuff, I did Brazilian stuff, I did, you know, and of course, R just RB, you know, whatever works. I played bata on some stuff. So then she knew I was into all this, all these rhythms from from around the world. So she wrote a song on uh Emerald City that was had no drums, it was just percussion. And she wrote it for me basically. She said it was called Patucata Suite. I said, Do you know what patucata is? And she said it's it means rhythm, right? And no, it's it's a particular rhythm from Brazil that they do at carnival time, and so we got it. We have to do it as a patucata. So we did that live um in the studio, including her vocal with me and Paulinho. First time I'd ever worked with Paulinho, who's like I say, was a big it was and is still a big inspiration to me. Abe LeBore, Brantford Marsalis, and John Bachowski on Keys, all live in the studio, which is, you know, for records, especially at that time, a lot of you know, everything's overdubbed, and this is all of us in a room tracking together, which was awesome. On Paulinho's first record, there's a uh, it's called uh it was on Pablo Records called Agora, the record. Um, there was a rhythm he had recorded with three congas. He recorded each one independently as an independent track over dubby. I didn't know that he was playing them separately, so I figured out when I studied his records and listened to him, I figured out how to play this three-drum part at all at the same time. So as we're warming up for the Batukata session, I I have some congas there. I'm I'm just playing these two parts, and he he looks over at me like, How are you doing that? You know, because he I didn't know he had recorded them all. I I kind of had a feeling, but it's but you know, I wanted to be able to play all three parts at the same time. So yeah, I mean he's such a beautiful cat. He said, you know, okay, for my next record, I'm doing a groove just for you, you know. So and you know, beautiful. I I I've learned so much by listening to him and watching him. We've done, I haven't done a ton together over the years, but we did um he and I uh on the movie Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, whichever the whichever one's telling us. I led the percussion on a session for for one scene, and it was it was two marimbas, me and Paulino on hand percussion, uh four orchestral percussions that I I like gave parts to to showed them what to play on each part. And Pedro Astash, I think, on on some uh Peruvian flutes, and I think there were might have been two trumpets, too. But we got to play on that, and you know, I mean, once again, that was the first time I'd ever worked with John Williams. There was no information about what to do. I I I had a feel, I mean, there was a little bit of indication that it was going to be that it takes place in Peru. So I knew that much. So I thought, okay, um I'll send Perubian, the Peruvian stuff instruments that I have, uh, as well as some other things, because you know, you have to have it was kind of open-ended. So we start the session, we walk in, John walks in, says, Good morning, everybody. I had asked before when I got to the studio, okay, so what's happening in this session? Somebody said, Oh, it's uh takes place in the Peruvian marketplace. So I talked to Paulinho and said, you know, I think I'm gonna play this Peruvian Cajon. Is it what would you like to play? Is there anything that well bongs will go well with this? And and it did because it's you know, that's a higher frequency drum, and I was doing some, you know, the Peruvian Cajon. John Williams walks in the room, like no discussion really, just good morning, everybody. How are we doing? All right, let's go and let's play down one time, and he'd say, Okay, well, this is okay. I like this. Let's change that. Let's open up this section for you know, Cajon can do a solo on this, you know, we'll make make it 16 bars here. No indication really of you know what was gonna how it was gonna be mixed, really. When the when the movie came out and they released the soundtrack, he had the cajon cranked in the mix. So I thought, well, that's a good sign he liked it, you know. So, and then I worked with Paulino on um Secret Life of Pets 2. We had me and Alex and Paulinho uh did some hamper cush together. Luis Conte was also on that. Um, so you know, most of uh Paulinho's work is just him as a soloist going and playing on records and stuff, and but what an amazing musician! And uh it's always a you know beautiful experience working with him or any of these other people I've mentioned.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

The cats so I've gotta ask you this. So, you know, uh does your cartage company or do you have any notes or emails saved from when you knew that you had a a date coming up and what you may have needed.

SPEAKER_03 8:21

I do my best to keep track of that because what happens a lot is we'll do they'll do the bulk of the music for a movie and music's like one of the last things, if not the last thing, done for a uh for a movie. So um, but then often there is a month later or two months later, sometimes six months later, they do uh, you know, the last little scraps. There's been changes in what the director wants out of the music, so they they have 95% of it done, but they need to do this last five, you know, a few little bit more music just to tailor it to new edits and cuts of the film. So when we go back to do those short, smaller sessions at the very end, I can look back. I have, you know, on my computer a list of what I send, a diagram of how I lay out, if it's an orchestral section, I always have to, you know, do a diagram of how I set up the section because um, you know, uh if if say a scorer has two instruments that are used a lot as a theme, like say Glockenspiel and Crotales, if they're unison or interacting together, I will put them left and right in the in within the stereo field of the section. So that's gonna be a more interesting sound for the for the engineers to mix too, because it's everything's not over on one side. So that's all, you know, all these things by having my own studio and recording my own music, I've learned like, you know, how to how to help engineers do their job. Um and that's another reason why I work as much as I do, because I always feel like my job is to do my job, but another component of my job is to make other people's job easier. So they're not having to fix things. I want to help them everybody do their job. And when you do that with people on a team, they like working with you.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

The mindful maestro.

SPEAKER_03 10:40

It makes a difference.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

And the reason why I asked about that if you still have those lists because I would think that in your book or a book. I mean, that's priceless, man.

SPEAKER_03 11:07

Yeah, you have to be you have to be very, very organized. In addition to being proficient musically, you have to be organized because there is so much money on the line when you know these sessions are being done. If there's 80 musicians in a row and you're the one that's slowing things down, uh, you know, that's a problem.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

And you would, and I don't I don't know if you would get a side eye, but uh but it you know that wouldn't be good.

SPEAKER_03 11:41

Yeah, yeah. I'm also you know, like at the Cartage Company, I have a huge, you know, collection. That's where I keep my instruments, but I have in my my iPhone a a database of what is in what is in each case. If I need to find an instrument, I can type that instrument in and it'll say, oh, that's drawer number three of case 41 or whatever, you know. So I mean, I of course also know where case where things are, but um, but I can always look it up if I if if I don't remember, and and um that's the way it has to be. Because of that though, you know, like drummers get to have the cartage guys or your roadies or techs set up your instrument. They don't set my stuff up, they'll move the cases into the room, maybe set up a few things, but when it comes to all the little stuff, I pull it out and then I put it away. Because if I let somebody else put it away, if it's in the wrong drawer, let alone the wrong case, then I am, you know, it's not good. So I need to know where everything is all the time.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Whoever's listening to this, be organized.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Because you make someone else's job easier. You make that's right. Yeah. It goes across.

SPEAKER_03 13:20

When we did um when we did Haunted Mansion, which was uh you know a Disney film a couple years ago, Chris Bowers, great composer. For the percussion, we had we had to get the whole score done in one day. We had 90 pieces of music to record.

unknown 13:38

Whoa.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

I went in and this was orchestral percussion. Um, but I I had organized who's gonna play what. Each player, when they walked in, had my printout. Yeah, I had sent them, sent it to them, you know, via email, but I also brought physical copies. They knew what instruments they needed at their station, they knew what they were gonna play on every cue. So once we're set up and ready to go, we could just bam plop. And we did 90 pieces of music in one day, you know. And that the only reason why that happened is because I was organized and and everybody knew what to do when they when we walked in.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

Incredible, man.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

Every day with film, every day is every session is its own thing, radically different, you know. We so it keeps it interesting. It's a challenge.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

I don't, you know, I don't know if if maestro would be, I mean a grand maestro or the coach.

SPEAKER_03 14:53

All all of the above.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

All of the above, man. And the player. And the player, and the coach. Player coach, maestro, uh yeah, that's yeah. That's mist oh, Mr. Kilgore. Yes, Mr. Kilgore. So, Brian. One of the last questions. And uh gotta I need to bring up uh you know, from from uh Black Panther and uh the most recent uh gem you know, from uh Michael B. Jordan. And you mentioned that you did some incredible uh their Brian Gilgore sound effects.

SPEAKER_03 15:48

Yes. On centers. On centers, on centers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

No, you can't f no, you can't find that on the internet. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 15:59

I'm very proud of that one. And and Ludwig Garonsen is brilliant. And uh, you know, there's a scene in that movie talking about ancestors that uh illustrates beautifully how every note that we play is informed by every note that we've ever heard, everybody that we've ever talked to, any performance we've ever heard, any experience we've ever had, and every and any note that the player, anybody that we've listened to for inspiration, anybody that they've listened to for inspiration, we all that all gets soaked through us and comes out in music. And and that's the beautiful thing about it. And that there's a scene in that movie that illustrates that in uh so such a beautiful way. It's it's really an amazing movie for uh any musician to see. And and you feel the history. That's right. And and it and then it makes you yourself realize when uh you know, my when I play, the ancestors are there, and it's it's just amazing. You know, there's uh one of the things um that I did, they wanted a drum that sounded kind of ominous. Uh I won't spoil anything for people that haven't seen the movie, but there are some ominous moments, and I put a kind of a little rattle on a drum, a cerdo that I had that and I have ways of changing the sound, um, which as in studio work you have to be able to do, you know, if they say make this darker, brighter, longer, shorter, or whatever. You have to learn to quickly do that. And I put a shaker uh uh or a rattle on this drum, and it had just the it added the perfect element of ominousness in this drum. And every anytime you hear this one drum come up in that score, you know things are not going well. But yeah, I'm that's that's uh that's a beautiful, really an incredible movie, and almost my favorite scene in the history of film is that one scene I was speaking about. You know, it's pretty amazing. Wow. And we're all connected and it and it shows that in a in a beautiful, really beautiful way, you know. Percussion is lucky that way. We're we are lucky that way. I think we get to feel it a little more directly than than some musicians and some genres, you know, because we are especially with world percussion, we're studying things sources from cultures all around the world.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

From the ancestors.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Yeah. And to to bring that authenticity to this moment, this this that right now.

SPEAKER_03 19:20

Yep. And that you're able to filter through your own heart and soul, you know? All of the above, including yourself. It's uh man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

What a process.

SPEAKER_03 19:35

Yeah. I feel very, very fortunate that um I get to do this kind of stuff for a living. And because I love these studying different cultures, the fact that I get to use that um knowledge in a way sometimes to bring authenticity, sometimes to mix it up in an intentional way that makes you know, often they want something to sound like it's from another culture, but not an identifiable culture. So you use the vocabulary that you've learned from all these other cultures and come up with something new. And that's that's a really fun thing to do with production, too.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

So, Brian, is there any words of wisdom that you could that you would want to say right now about this not only about what you do but the field and being in those now moments and to know the vo how important it is to know the vocabulary, know the history.

SPEAKER_03 21:01

My advice to uh any young musician would be to listen and learn and work hard at it, never stop learning. You know, it's a really tough business to make a to break into and make a living, but it's not impossible. And you just have to work hard, and then the other thing that many young musicians takes all of us a bit of time to learn, and that is your greatest superpower is being yourself and and allowing yourself to bring what you have to the table and have confidence that that is when you do your best job is when you trust your own instincts.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Spoken like maybe you should be, I don't know, groove alchemist.

SPEAKER_03 22:05

Uh I'm I'm I'm like I say, I I still learn everything I can with any musician that I can that I'm playing with. Like there's always more to learn. So it never stops.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

All right, man. Hey. I love what you do, man.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

I love you as a person. And incredible. Um I mean it it touches me, man.

SPEAKER_03 22:33

Thank you. Well, that means a lot to me to hear you say that. I mean, you know, I'm I'm we've been able to work together a few times, not always in real time. Sometimes, sometimes. And uh it's it's always a always a joy, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Bye and thank you, man. Takes forever. And and to the missus.

SPEAKER_03 23:00

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Thank you so much. This has been such a rich look at the crafting and the versatility behind a career like your coolly grateful for your code. For the groove online podcast. Thank you. And at any time, open invitation, sir. Thank you, Brian Gilgore. For the Good On Live Podcast. Thank you everyone for listening. Till the next time.