22. Prophecy Unpacked: How to Hear God & Discern His Voice with Kristine Bremer

In this powerful episode, I’m joined by Kristine Bremer of Encounter School of Ministry Los Angeles to explore the gift of prophecy—what it is, what it isn’t, and how it draws us into deeper intimacy with God.

As someone who came from a New Age background, I share my own hesitations around prophecy, and Kristine beautifully unpacks the key differences between prophetic ministry and practices like tarot or astrology.

We talk about how God speaks, how to discern His voice, and why prophecy is ultimately about love, encouragement, and relationship, not performance.

In this episode, we cover:

•  What prophecy really is (and why it’s biblical) 
•  The difference between New Age practices and listening to the Holy Spirit 
•  How to hear God’s voice in everyday life 
•  Discernment: God’s voice vs. your voice vs. the enemy's 
•  What to do when a prophetic word doesn’t resonate 
•  The role of humility, trust, and “getting it wrong” 
•  How prophecy deepens your relationship with God 

If you’ve ever wondered, “Is that really God speaking?”—this episode will encourage you to step out in faith and grow in confidence.

✨ Learn more about Encounter School of Ministry

Follow Carrie on Instagram @livingwholeandholy

Schedule a Free 1:1 Catholic Coaching Clarity Call with Carrie

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Welcome to the Living Whole and Holy podcast, where the Catholic faith and intentional living come together. I'm your host, Carrie Jane, a recent Catholic convert and Catholic coach, here to guide you toward a life that's rooted in Christ, centered in his love, and aligned with God's call. Whether you're a convert, revert, cradle Catholic, or simply exploring the faith, you're in the right place. Join me each week to hear inspiring conversations including conversion and reversion stories, timeless wisdom from the church, and practical Catholic coaching tools that help you deepen your faith and intimacy with Christ, cultivate Christ-centered habits, and be transformed through the renewing of your mind. If you're ready to discover and align to the beauty and richness of a fully integrated Catholic life, you've found your home. I'm so excited you're here. Let's get started. So, Christine, I'm so delighted to have you here today. I would like you to introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Yeah. Hi, everybody, and welcome. It's such an honor to be here. So thank you, Carrie. And so a little bit about me. I have the immense pleasure and honor to get to run our Encounter Los Angeles campus. And essentially what we do is we are a two-year ministry program where we teach people how to operate in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. And it's been just so much fun to watch people grow in their intimacy and relationship with the Lord. And then also to see, I mean, we've seen miracles, we've seen signs and wonders, and it's it's been such a joy. We feel like it's a fully comprehensive program. Basically, a lot of like what we do is we uh we just think that when Jesus had told us in the book of John, Amen, amen, I say to you, those who believe in me will do the works that I do and greater ones because I'm going to the Father. And so we just take him seriously when he says that. And it's us just pursuing Jesus with his heart and trying to bring heaven onto earth is kind of a short-winded way of saying what my role is at encounter and the joy and the fun that I get to have along the way.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Yeah, it's been such a gift. I joined in the fall, last fall. I'm like, we're in 2026 now. And like you said, the intimacy with Christ, I think that's the biggest gift. And just building an identity in him before anything else has been transformational. And we're not even through the first year. So I can't wait to see what keeps happening. I mean, it's pretty amazing. So what I would what I wanted to have you speak about with my audience is prophecy because that's a big part. That's one of the quarter, well, not one of the quarters, but one of the was it a quarter now?

SPEAKER_00 3:24

I'm thinking it was a quarter, but I feel like it's also just like a um a pillar in our ministry.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Yeah. So one of the pillars that I particularly learned so much from and am so grateful to be practicing is prophecy. And I say that because I came from a new age background before converting to Catholicism just about two years ago. And I was hesitant about prophecy because when I was in that world, I dabbled with tarot cards and oracle cards, and I was really into astrology. So I would love for you just to first tell us what prophecy is and why it's biblical and maybe how it differs from some of these new age practices.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Yeah, I think that's such a good question. I think everybody who comes from the New Age occult area that they all are struggling with this because they were like, well, I used to do, I used to do readings, I used to do these different things. And this scares me a little bit because I think we also just, I think that there are some well-meaning priests and Christian Catholic influencers who uh really try to put fear in people. And I think that on like a pendulum, it's good to have discernment because we we there are essentially three different voices that we can hear: our voice, the voice of God, or the voice of the enemy. And so discernment is important. We try to teach that and at encounter as well, that you're you're really trying to learn how to discern and listen, okay, this is how this voice sounded like. And when I delivered the message, it hit or it didn't hit. Okay, that's good to know. And so it's a refining process. But I think pulling back a little bit, you had mentioned the intimacy with the Lord is the Lord's not asking for us to be perfect. He's continuing to try, he's essentially just holding our hand and we're walking and he's showing us along the way of like the way that we view God is just so important. He's not this God who is up in heaven, who is looking down on us and judging us and keeping track of, like, oh, this is what you did wrong. This is what you did right. And so the way that we view God can really just change our relationship with him. And so I see it as like a way that it's like trial and error. We're trying, we're doing our best. Our heart is truly in it. And we are really trying to choose him and pursue him. And it's okay to mess up, he's gonna pick us back up. So, with a little bit more context, uh, really what we're just trying to teach students is to listen to the Lord to take a minute, whether you're in ministry and you're praying for somebody who needs some specific prayer who needs encouragement from the Lord, or maybe you're in a conversation with someone and you're like, I have no idea what to say. Like, Lee Spirit, what do you want me to say? Holy Spirit, what are you doing right now in this moment, in this person's life in front of me? And it just becomes this beautiful like conversation with with the Lord is a lot of how it how encounter has helped me grow in my intimacy with the Lord. And and so I think to define the prophetic a little bit, we look at the Old Testament and the New Testament and and to just kind of assuage any like anxiety related to the prophetic. I mean, Saint Paul tells us in his letter to the Corinthians to pursue all the gifts, but above all to prophesy. And and so I mean, that's like a direct commandment, not commandment, but like it's a demand, it's a direct command that Saint Paul is telling us. And we look into the Old Testament then and we see that the Lord is constantly speaking and revealing things to his people. It doesn't necessarily have to be about the future. We see Nathaniel whenever whenever David uh has an affair with with Bathsheba and goes and gets her husband murdered on the battlefield, the Lord revealed something from the past to Nathaniel that had happened. And it was a way for the Lord to just call out David and to draw him closer to his heart, and that's what happened. David repented. So the prophetic, I believe, is just being able to listen to the Lord's voice for somebody else in their life. Yeah, that's beautiful. And it's meant to upbuild and encourage. Yeah, and to console. There are three things that the prophetic is calling us to do is a prophetic word should be upbuilding, it should be consoling, and it should be encouraging. And that's something that we also try to teach our students is okay, you might get a prophetic word for someone, and maybe it's like a little bit darker, you're not really sure what you're seeing. You don't have to release this image that's that might give them anxiety or anxiety or something. Instead, really pray into it, ask the Holy Spirit, Holy Spirit, I'm seeing this image. What are you trying to tell me with this? What are you doing in this person's life? And uh, and I think sometimes we can enter into like the prophetic room practicum, what we had our students do, and people can be like, oh, they're gonna see all my sin or all the bad things and everything. But we just really want to encourage people that the Lord just has takes so much delight in each and every one of us that there's nothing that we could do to lose God's love because there's nothing we could ever do to earn God's love. And so at every moment that means that He is delighting in us, our best moments and our not best moments.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Absolutely. Yeah, that prophetic practicum was so amazing. I mean, because it's one thing to learn these techniques and these prayers, but then to actually put it into practice with people that really are truly coming to feel closer to God or to feel like you said, up encouragement and consolation. It's a really a beautiful way to help the body of Christ. And yeah. What would you say to someone from the new age who says no? Like, you know, the because I'm thinking about I think one time Amanda had spoken about with new age and you with getting information, there's no relationship. And then with God with prophecy, there's relationship. Can you go into that a little bit? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

So that's that's I think one of the most distinguishing differences between palm reading, fortune telling, and what we have in the prophetic. I think that they're that they're just they're very similar, that you're listening to a voice to I've never um had a reading done, I've never done tarot cards or anything. But I believe like the intention is for that also to be encouraging and uplifting for the most part. But um, but the difference there, and you even see it like biblically that uh that the Lord had had said basically in the old testament, like if you're not doing this in a relationship with me, then it's wrong. And and that's that's the main difference, is we're constantly in relationship with the Lord, trying to discern and figure out what he's saying. Okay, you showed me this image, Holy Spirit help me to interpret this. What do you mean by it? And and so with the with the new age and the occult, you're you're essentially getting your information from a source that you don't really know. It could be yourself, it could be, it could be the Lord. I really do believe that maybe that there's a way that the Lord could work in in those situations, but it also could be the enemy. And and so you're inviting something in that you don't really know what you're inviting in. And and so we never do this outside of relationship with the Holy Spirit. And thankfully, as baptized Christians, we have the Holy Spirit who lives inside of us and who's dwelling inside of us.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Yeah, it's it's a huge difference. And like you said, you don't know where you're getting the information from, and you're opening up portals to who knows what. And, you know, that's the way that the demonic realm works. They can know information about somebody posing as your grandmother who passed, but you're getting into murky waters, and like you said, in working in the prophetic, you are yielding to the Holy Spirit, you're checking back in. You may get a word, but you you're checking back in. Like I'm thinking back to the prophetic practicum, and sometimes you get a word and you're like, oh my gosh, Lord, this does not make sense. But then you just yield to the Holy Spirit and just ask for more information about it. And then I'd love for you to talk about if you get a word and it may not resonate, then what what do you do from there? Like you share a word with someone and they say, hmm, that's really not resonating for me.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Yeah, I think it should be celebrated as well. I was talking to my brother on the phone this morning and just telling him that uh what we try to like share with our students is we don't want to get 100% of the words that we um that we receive 100% right 100% of the time. It's because then we end up not needing God. And if we are if we are getting words right 100% of the time, people will stop going to God and start coming to us. Like I we're so human. We're like, oh, it's just much easier because it is hard, you know, like to sit in prayer and to like really pray with the Lord, discern I don't want to make the wrong decision. Like, Lord, it's like the decision isn't very clear. Like, what do I do? It's much easier to go up to somebody, be like, hey, tell me what to do. And um, yeah. And so I think that people would would instead just continue to like come to us. And I mean, there have been times like not only that I don't get a word right, but I don't even get a word for someone. And I'm just like I'm standing there. And like that's the other, I think one of the main differences is that we're not in control of this. The Lord will reveal something to us when he wants to, if he wants to, it's not like he's our genie where we're just like rubbing it, rubbing like the little um whatever that is, to have him just appear at our command. We're not asking that. We're exactly like you said, we're yielding to him and to his timing. Like there are times where I'm like trying to pray for someone, I don't get anything. And then there are times where I'm I'm not thinking about anything, and then the Lord just like gives me something about um about a situation or about someone I love. I think all words that resonate or don't resonate should be celebrated and they're all the Lord, and we can just continue to just look upon the Lord. I think one of the most important parts of the first quarter, which in it's our identity, and it's really trying to get out of the performance mindset, thinking I have to be perfect, I have in order to be loved, I have to do everything right, or else God is not going to love me because that's how my parents were. And I think it's just a very different perspective. And it takes a lot of time to really try to embrace celebrating our failures and quotation marks. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

And I love how we encourage the people who receive pro prophetic prayer, take it to the Lord. You're also encouraging them to spend more time with God because sometimes the word doesn't come from us. I mean, we we ask the Holy Spirit, but it gives that person an opportunity to go deeper and ask, have them ask the Lord, what does this mean for my life? So I love that too, because like you said, we're not we're not the oracles. We don't want people to come to us. We want to bring people back to God.

unknown 15:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

And St. Paul talks about how we prophesy in parts. And I think that like we we are not meant to have all of the answers for everybody, and that it is a matter, what I what the prophetic, the main goal it's supposed to do, is supposed to bring the other person into a deeper relationship with the Lord. So, okay, I I share a message with them, and then it's like you said, it's their role to then pray and discern with the Lord. It's it's 50-50. We try to listen and release, and then it's the person's job receiving to really take it to prayer, to steward it. And I think even words that people receive that are words that are like, oh no, it's not what I want, or what do you mean? There can sometimes be words that we receive where we get anxiety or fear comes over us and whatnot. And and you can for sure just reject that word that that is spoken over you. I think it is more fruitful and beautiful is taking it to the Lord and asking him, Lord, like why, why is this, uh, why is this word that's striking a chord in my heart right now that's causing fear and anxiety? And he loves to like just sit with you and walk with you and help you to um to better understand. And then there's greater freedom. And uh, and it's not something that ends up like plaguing you and whatnot. So I think when words don't resonate, that is that is okay. And there's like there is a protocol, there's a way that we can just, it's all about bringing people back into relationship at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Yeah, absolutely. And then tell us the importance of sealing after you've prophetically prayed over somebody.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Um Yeah. So after we pray for people, we love to, we love to just seal it. We love to say just a super brief prayer that, Lord, any words spoken over Carrie that were from you or of you, that they may take a deep root and be planted inside of her heart. Any words that were spoken that were not of you, Lord, may they just roll off her back. And I think that's just one way for we believe that we that there is power in our words. And it's one way that we can help to really plant that that word from God into our hearts and into our minds, and for us to steward it. And any words that way, again, if there were any words that were spoken that were not true, they can just roll off.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Yeah, I love that. And we always we also check in to too to see how things are resonating. And I had an experience where I said one word and it was river, and this woman just started bawling and it confirmed a dream that she had about taking a trip to Africa to build a school for children. And I was just like, God, you're so amazing. And I was so scared to release that word because I'm just like rever, I wasn't getting anything out. And then the Lord's just like, wait, wait. And then she's like, that's what I needed to hear. So it's been a real act of trust for me. And like you said, getting out of that performance anxiety because when we know that we're not in control and we know he's in control, and we, and if we know that we can make mistakes here and there, the process is just gonna be so much more fruitful, I think.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Yeah. Um, yeah, I I love that story. I think that's beautiful. And I just like there have been so many times in my own life where I receive like an image or a word for someone, and then I tell them the interpretation that I feel like I received from the Holy Spirit. And the word was right, but the interpretation was like didn't really resonate. But they just it very much so that's even like another example of like just these things were not in our control. And uh and that, yeah, just the obedience. So I'm applauded that like you took that step of faith. You crossed the chicken line, what we call and just delivered a word that you're like, oh, this is one word. I don't think it's gonna mean anything.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Yeah. And there was another instance where I just kept seeing letters like the letter A and all these letters falling to the ground, but just A's. I'm like, A, what is this? And then he gave us a different name. He gave us his last name, and then he goes, Oh, my first name starts with A. And I was like, Okay. But it's just, I don't know, it it feels it feels like the Lord just tickles us. And then he had all this joy because he because I said he's calling you by name. That's what came to me after the A's. Because at first I'm like, Lord, is this was he like an A student? I was gonna say that's where my mind would have gone. And then the Lord's like, no, he's I'm calling him by name, and he's like he had a moment, you know, and it's really beautiful to be able to share, to to let go, to release the word and then get their interpretation and see if it resonates. And I love the concept of partial prophecy because they get the opportunity to then go and pray on it, or if something came up and it didn't resonate to spend time with the Lord and let the Lord reveal what it means. So he always has ways of just working things out very beautifully. Yeah, yeah, I agree. And there's different ways we can prophesy. I had so much fun at the summer intensive practicing all the different ways that we can be prophetic. If you could talk about a few of those.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Yeah, that's one of my favorite parts. I the first year is just so exciting. Each quarter, I love both years individually and whatnot, but that first year is just so exciting when because you're learning all of these new things and you're seeing all this power and might and everything. When we get to the prophetic quarter and the summer intensive, that's hands down my favorite part because most of the people who come to the summer intensive, they're learning for the first time that God does speak to them and he desires to speak to them. And that's one of the verses that we quote during that time is in the book of John, when Jesus says that my sheep hear my voice. And so we like to propose that Jesus spoke this. So he's either telling the truth or he's lying. And I don't think it's the latter. So he's telling us the truth that we are his, we can hear his voice and we are his sheep. So, like so um, so he already, we already know that he desires to speak to us and that he does speak to us. So it's so much fun. We do all of these different activations where we're asking, we're praying. Asking the Holy Spirit, Holy Spirit, give us a story or a verse from the Bible for this person. Holy Spirit, what kind of animal is this person? And uh that's can just bring about so much joy and fun. I remember I did that with uh a group that I was giving a talk at a small young adult gathering, and we did that activation and I got, I don't do you know those swan boats at Silver Lake? They're like on the outside. So I got a swan for him. And as I was like speaking about swan and what I felt like the swan signified, I was like, I don't think this is right. So then my mind went to like those swan boats, and I was like, you know, you seem like you're somebody who um I was like, I feel like the Holy Spirit is revealing that you are somebody who carries people from location to location, like you've got them on your back, like you're somebody who lifts people up. And I went on a little bit and he's like, whoa, he's like, that is me perfectly. And so I feel like it's like just these ways that the Lord wants to show us that He that He sees us and that He delights in us, that He created us. So why would He not delight in us? And yeah, it's a way for us to just feel known and loved by Him. So yeah, so we do a lot of fun activations. I mean, honestly, even the way I like to start my meetings with our leadership team is with prophetic activations for each person where we take turns over each person. And we've done things like, Lord, Holy Spirit, what kitchen utensil is this person? Holy Spirit, what what coffee order is this person? Holy Spirit, what tree is this person? And just getting an image or hearing something and being able to speak into that is is just so much fun. I just try to ask very pointed questions uh for for the person that I'm praying for. I feel like the Lord is so playful.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

And when you get something, you get a word or a phrase for somebody, and it's deeply personal, again, it it it makes you trust the Lord and it makes that person trust the Lord. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

And yeah, I mean, I like I the first time I received like prophetic ministry, it was uh 2019, and I was just flabbergasted that this woman knew stuff only God, my journal, and I knew about my life. Um and I'm like, I have no idea where she's getting this information from. This is like, whoa, I feel so seen by the Lord right now. This was like just a point my in my faith journey where um where I was just at such a low place and and just not sure if the Lord even cared about me. And and being able to just see that no, actually he's been with me this whole time in this lowest of lows. One of my favorite moments of the of the chosen, and I know like that can be such a divisive show and whatnot. And and they they for sure take creative liberties. I don't take it as like biblical truth or anything, but I feel like they also do a good job of showing certain scenes and parts that I never would have never would have thought about. And one of my favorite scenes is Nathaniel when he's under a fig tree, and he just put his like architectural drawing to be like chosen or rated for some competition or something, and he didn't get it, and he was so hopeful for it. So he's just crying under the fig tree. He feels so forgotten by God, and he's at his like lowest point, and then that's when Jesus, he he meets Jesus, and Jesus is like, I Nathaniel, I saw you under the fig tree. And he just Nathaniel felt so seen, I got goosebumps at um at that. And that's how it felt for me in my own life. In some of these lowest years that I had, Lord, you were there, you were you weren't just watching me, you were there with me through it all. And it just made such a complete difference. It honestly, I don't mean to sound dramatic, but it really did change my life. Do you remember a sp or can you share a specific word you got at that time? Question. Um let me think. Okay, actually, yes, I do remember. I think this was 2016 or 2017. I this must be like first like uh time the Lord spoke to me in an image. I remember I was sitting down, and Jesus and I were at the bottom of a mountain, and he was, we gotta go to the top of the mountain mountain. And I'm like, okay, so as we start to ascend the mountain, we're like wapping around it. We're like going around and around, and we get to like the middle of the mountain, and all of a sudden there is a blizzard. And so I can no longer see Jesus in front of me, and it's so windy, I also can't hear him. And all of a sudden I just keep rambling and falling on rocks and twigs, and I'm like tripping, and I I can't see him, I can't hear him. But I'm like, I have to make it to the top of that mountain. I have to make it to the top of that mountain. Um, and so that was kind of just the season that I was in that I could no longer see or hear, perceive, like sense the Lord, his presence. And he used to like just speak to me in um like I had never experienced that before. So that was when I met this, this lady, this woman. And it was I had I had asked her, she was actually the lady who worked at the front desk of the apartment complex that I was living in at the time. And I just asked her, I was like, Hey, can you pray for me? And she's like, Yeah, absolutely. And actually, embarrassingly, I asked her that and I just started bawling. I was in like such a bad place, and I ended up just walking off because I was so embarrassed. And then a few days later, I see her and I just don't think much of it. I think sometimes, at least for uh at that point in my life, I was like, Oh, yeah, I'm sure she didn't actually pray for me. But I was like, you know what, I'll just be kind. I'll be like, oh, thank you, Angela, thank you for praying for me. And she was like, Oh, yeah, for sure. She's like, I saw you walking in a cloud. And I it like stopped me in my tracks. And I'm like, what? She was like, I just saw all of this fog and cloud around you. Um, and and she's like, and I just prayed for it to be gone. And that was where I was like, well, you don't know what I've been, I feel like I've been walking in a cloud for like the last few years, where I just could not see anything. Because it was like a couple days after she had prayed, after that encounter with her where she prayed for me. I I started to see the Lord and hear the Lord again. I started to like see from him again. And yeah, she was like, I just saw you walking in a cloud and I prayed for it to be gone. Wow. He must have been so relieved. Yeah, it was, and honestly, there was a relief, but there was also a huge mistrust at the time, too. Kind of like, are you just gonna remove your your presence from me again? Are you just gonna remove your voice from me again? And so it was almost felt like when you touch a hot stove for the first time and you're like, look, I don't know if I trust it. I see that that it's off, but I don't know. And and so it very much felt like that. And but the Lord, he knew that he was gonna build back that trust with me and and that he had a plan already and whatnot. But so there was like a relief, and then there was also like a little bit of trepidation of, I don't know, Lord, is it gonna happen again? Yeah. What was the turning point for you? I I honestly, as crazy as it sounds, it was January 1st, 2019, where all of a sudden, all like the fog and that cloud that I was walking in was just lifted. I was at Mass that day with uh with a close family, a friend of mine, a friend that has become family of mine. And all of a sudden, I was in the middle of mass and I just heard God saying, I'm doing good things to your heart, I'm doing good things to your heart, I'm doing good things to your heart over and over and over again. And I mean, this was like so long since I had heard his voice. And he uh Yeah, it'd been so long since I had heard his voice, and so it was like, what's going on here? Like the Lord, like and again, it was nothing that I had could control of. It was nothing that I did. It was just one day miraculously, it just everything was lifted.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Yeah. Well, that's the life of the Lord, I feel like when you're when you're living within the Lord, it's it's a surrender, it's a you're going from self-reliance to God reliance, and it's so much you can just take a breath. Because for so much of my life, I just wanted to control, control, control. And that's one of the things of with prophecy too. I just feel like it gives you that opportunity to really let go and trust. And it and it is a process. Like I remember we practiced all of these different ways of prophecy in class, and it's one thing to do that with people that you know that are also learning and they're a little bit more forgiving. Although, I mean, I don't think anybody had any experience in our practicum where you know there was something that was said that really turned somebody off. Most people had profound experiences, but it's very different when you when you go out, when you go from practicing with people that you know to trusting all of that that the Lord's put in you and then going out and doing it with other people. So yeah. It's a huge, huge surrender and a huge trust, but I'm so glad that that you listened and you kept following that and it led you to where you are now. Um I know we talked about different types of prophecy, but I'd love to also have you share about the different ways we receive the prophetic from the Lord in prayer.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Yeah. And a lot of it what we teach comes from Saint Thomas Aquinas. So Saint Thomas Aquinas, I can't remember what the Latin is off the top of my head right now, but that basically God speaks to us through us, meaning that the Lord gave us our five senses. And so that's how He can speak to us. So it could be something like if we start with sight, something that we literally see, it could be something like transposed the spiritual realm or something transposed like physically. I feel like that's very rare, but you definitely hear of those cases where you're literally seeing something in reality that's not actually there. Or it could be something that you see. I know mind's eye has a negative connotation. So sometimes I like to say our heart's eye, that that we are we can receive something in the same similar way where if we were to close our eyes right now and just imagine that we are in our favorite vacation spot. So maybe like the uh the waves are coming and uh we're on the beach, we're sitting on the sand, we can just kind of imagine it in some way. There's also hearing, like we could hear something literally audibly. That's again, that's that one's a rare one. We could also just hear something in our mind in the same way that if we were to close our eyes and just say our first, middle, and last name three times, that it can be a voice that sounds similar to that. It can also be in our gut feeling that that also can be from the Lord. It also can just be a thought that we have that comes to our mind that uh even our thoughts can be discerned. Is this thought from me? Is it from the Lord, or is it from the enemy? And so that's some of the ways that we like to just explain that we can receive, but we can also receive from scripture. We ask the Holy Spirit, give me a verse. And sometimes that that can um just turn out very beautifully, or you can even do like a little Bible roulette where you're just flipping the book and then you point to the random part to receive something. We can also prophesy from listening to music. It could be Christian music, or it could be even secular music, that there's still ways that the Lord can speak to us there. There are ways that the Lord speaks to us when praying the rosary or being at mass, that there are different modes that we can receive, different places that we can receive, receive the Lord and and to be able to give a prophetic word. I mean, even a lot of the times when I'm praying for people, the Lord will highlight an object in the room for me. And I'll I'll just notice that like this object is being highlighted, and I'll be like, okay, Lord, what are you trying to tell me? And I um an example comes to my mind right now where last summer I was at the encounter conference and I was praying for someone and the exit sign above the door kept getting highlighted to me. And so I had said, uh the exit, I said exit, like exit strategy, exit plan. And he was like, How do you know this? Because my bot, he said, I'm a school teacher, I'm past retirement age, and my principal sat me down and said, What is your exit plan? And so he's like, with my with my exit plan. So there are all these different ways that the Lord uh speaks to us and through us, and um and that he's able to communicate.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Yeah, I had an experience of that too with someone in the class when I was just asking the Lord, what does this person need to know? And I kept hearing Crown of Thorns, and then I saw the Crown of Thorns, and again, I was like, Oh my gosh. I'm always initially I'm always like, Okay, God, do you want me to use this? But I mean, the crown of thorns isn't isn't that crazy. So I said, Does Crown of Thorns mean anything to you? And he's like, Oh my gosh. When I was driving here, I was listening to a song and it was about the crown of thorns. And then I looked up and in the room, in our room, our classroom, there's a picture of a crown of thorns. I don't know if you're familiar with that picture in that room, but um I feel like I is it on the the board on the side? I think so. And I just I hadn't seen it, and then I looked and I was like, oh my god. So it was like there were like a couple different things. There was like a song, there was like something in the room, and then yeah, so it's it's incredible. It's really incredible. And I think the more that you do it, the more you have confidence with it. It's definitely a practice, and you have to be okay failing and falling, and it's not about our performance, really. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Um, yeah. I mean, honestly, it was after the encounter conference, and I like 9.5 out of 10 of my prophetic prayer over people just really hit. They were really good words and whatnot. And so I was on this high, and I'm like, Lord, yay, any anyone you want to put my way on my on my commute back on my flight back home, I will prophesy for them. And and so I'm like, oh, I'm gonna try it with my uh with my flight at flight attendant. And like, holy spirit, what do you want me to know about this, this lady? And I had, I'm trying to remember because I'm like, I feel like we should just share more failure stories as well. Yeah. But I'm like uh with this, with this woman, and I just hear sons like boys or something like that. And and so I like have like this spiel where I'm like, hi, my name is Christine. I don't know if this is weird or not, but but I like to listen to to God. I like to pray and I like to listen to God, and I like to ask him if he has like some word of encouragement for for the people that I'm I'm around and I feel like I receive something for you. Could I share it? And she's like, Yeah, absolutely. And I was like, Do you have any like sons that you're concerned about? Thinking that like I could like pray for her son right then and there. And she was like, no, I don't have any kids. I was like, oh, okay. She's like, but thank you. Like that was so sweet. She's like, I feel very encouraged just by that. And so it was very, she was like very generous with um with her words, but I was like, oh, okay. I kind of felt like a dog with like the my tail in between my lips after again having these like moments of high, and then just yeah, I'm very I felt like I was very humbled there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

No, it's important to talk about the the stories where it doesn't land for somebody or it doesn't resonate because we're human and we're learning. And I think that's part of why the Lord calls us to these different practices to just have him help us in our humanity, you know, after something like that happens, because it's like, how how do we treat ourselves when things don't go well? Because it's really fun when it goes well. I'd love for you to give an example of the difference between God's voice, our voice, and Satan's voice, like maybe just an example of how they would differ.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Like I feel like the enemy can be so coy, and uh and I mean it reminds you a little bit of like Adam and Eve in the garden where Eve is like, Oh, he told us not even to touch it, and he's like, Oh, did he say not to touch it? And and so like he can even take the Lord's words and twist it a little bit, or not even twist it, just Jesus calls the enemy the prince of lies, the father of lies, and and so that just means that like he can take a statement and it can just be 99% true, but 1% not. That's still not a true statement. So I feel like it can be like the voice of the enemy can be as harsh as like you're evil, you're a bad person, you're a liar. Because the Lord's not gonna call us these names. That that's gonna be very obvious that this is not from the Lord. Um, the Lord just calls us by name, like what you I love that that word that you got for that guy. He calls us by name. And there's such a beautiful, I want to just back it up a little bit with a beautiful story of, and I always get this mystic saint wrong. It might be Saint Catherine of Laboray, it's maybe Saint Catherine of Sienna, but or Saint Teresa of Avala, three really incredible mystical saints. But uh, Jesus was appearing to this, to this person, to this woman, and the woman went to her spiritual director, and the spiritual director's like, well, we have to figure out if it's Jesus or the devil. So next time this person appears to you, ask it, what did I confess? What was my last confession? Because the enemy is gonna be like, you confess this, you confess that, all of the above. And um, and so this woman goes, Jesus appears, and she says, Hey, what was my last confession? And Jesus's response was, I don't remember. And that is like his, that's his heart for us. Like that, so he's not the enemy it never would have said that. The enemy would have like told us all the things that we did wrong, uh, because there's no humility in him. So uh so like if we're hearing those like accusatory words, that's probably not from the Lord, but it could also just be something like if you don't get this right, it's uh you're not gonna be loved anymore. Like the the Lord's not gonna love you. So it can they're like there's like a huge range, and uh, and I think that um there's a lot that could be spoken about discernment and whatnot, and it all boils down to intimacy with the Lord because if you read through Ignatius's uh rules for discernment, he has like a whole another week of rules of discernment that kind of throw that those first week rules out, and so and I don't want to get too too deep into that, but I think like at the end of the day, like you can have very obvious like distinguishes between voices, but there can also be not so obvious distinguishes in the voices, and that's where discernment plays a role. And again, you can't have discernment without relationship, and you can't have relationship without intimacy. So I so I I I feel like I can't give like, oh, the five steps to knowing whose voice is whose. It's like, you know what? Sometimes if your heart is in the right place and you're really trying to pursue the Lord, and this isn't a matter of sin and not sin, it's a matter between good and another good, then and it's about trial and error. I yeah. So I I don't think that there are any like five steps to like five ways you can like distinguish if whose voice this is outside of building that intimacy.

SPEAKER_01 43:05

Yeah, I love that. I agree. And I always think that the enemy's voice is also very discouraging. I can always tell when it's him because he's like, Are you sure God said that? It's like goes right back to the garden. And but the devil can also be very cunning and sly because a lot of the new age practices um are rooted in the demonic. So I love what you said. And what I love about encounter is that we're encouraged, we start class with worship, you know, we have mass once a month, and we're always encouraged to frequent the sacraments. And I think that also helps us to stay within that intimacy and and pursuing him. So it's it's beautiful the way everything is set up to have that relationship because you're right. It's like if you have a friend and you never talk to that friend, and you know, you say, Oh, that friend knows all this about me, but it's like, well, but if you don't You're not having a daily conversation. It's a very different approach than if you're actually making time and scheduling things with that friend and prioritizing it's the same thing with God. It's like we we need to give him our first fruits and not our leftovers if we wanna, if we wanna really pursue a relationship, if we want to be able to have that discernment and to be using our prophetic gifts.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

Yeah. And it's like one of those things that I mean, you know, well, like you and Sheikh, when you got married, it you didn't just stop going on dates with each other. You didn't stop pursuing each other. And that's the same thing that we have to like same mentality that we have to have with the Lord, because it really is a marriage that we have with the Lord that He wants to have, that He's inviting us into. It's going to be perfected up in heaven, but and that's where it's gonna be in its fullness. But we still have to go on these dates with the Lord and not He He watches everything, absolutely. And there's this beautiful analogy that I remember this might have been like, man, 10, 15 years ago now, I was listening to a Father Mike Schmidt's homily, and he was giving this example of this dad he knows who normally goes to all of his son's basketball games, but this particular away game, his dad couldn't make it. And the the son heard the coach talking to his dad when they were driving back on the bus. And so when the boy got into the car and the dad's like, How did it go, son? The son's like, Oh, well, you already heard everything from from coach. And the dad's like, No, I want to hear it from you, like directly. Like, that's what I like it. And I think I'm I'm not a I'm not a mom, I'm not a parent, but I feel like that's how I would feel if my kid was like, I don't want to tell you. You already heard it. It's like, I don't care if anybody told me that, like, who told me this? I just want to hear it directly from you. And I think that's God's heart posture for us as well.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

Yeah, absolutely. And we got we need to open that space. We need to give him that opportunity, or we won't have that with him.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

So yeah. And I love that part of the creating that space is exactly like you said, praise and worship. And I'm gonna steal another little Father Mike Schmidt's one-liner where where he talks about how, and like this is where a lot of like where we get the importance of praise and worship. So it and just how just the power that it has. But back in the Old Testament, the first tribe that that the Lord would send out to war and to battle was always Judah. And Judah means praise. And so that's like the way that we, the way that we um enter into our own battles here, spiritual battles here on this earth, is is by praising. And we see just how that can destroy strongholds, how it can break chains, and you uh we just start to see the power, and like that's how we like to enter into class because it allows any areas of our brain that the enemy might have an anchor in, might have like some foothold that we just like let go so we can really have a true renewal of the mind. It's also why we do it before our transformation night speakers as well, is really just to put ourselves into this posture of receptivity and allowing the Lord to shape and to mold our hearts and minds.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

Yeah, absolutely. Well, before we go, I would love to know what it I asked every guest this question because uh the name of my ministry is Living Whole and Holy. So, what does it mean to you to live whole and holy?

SPEAKER_00 47:46

Yeah, I think that's a such a good question. I feel like to me. So I I think that happiness, I think that holiness, and I think that healthiness, that that all equals wholeness to it. And so I think that to have whole and holy, it's to be healthy. And I think that continuing to like break that down more is just deep intimacy with the Lord. And I there's a beautiful quote by John Paul II that I feel like I always just kind of like the I get the gist of it, but I end up butchering it. But he says that holiness is nothing more than a deep abiding intimacy with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And I think sometimes think like, oh, holiness, I have to like knuckle my way to like holiness and to not sin. And and we think that that's holiness, but there's so much more freedom if we redefined holiness in our lives that, oh, it's just a deep intimacy with this creator, with the creator of the universe, the the one who created me. And I think that that starts like you get that through a healthy attachment, through a healthy relationship with the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 49:13

And I love that. That is so beautiful. Well, Christine, you talked a lot about encounter. And if anybody would like to go further and deeper with, you know, learning how to use the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Could you share a little bit about where people could go to learn more or if they want to join the school or anything else that might be coming up from Encounter?

SPEAKER_00 49:38

Yeah, so we uh we are a campus in Los Angeles, uh, and our our headquarters is in Pasadena at St. Philip the Apostle, and we meet every Wednesday evening to have class. It's about a nine-month program from September to May, and this is just where we we gather together as as students and uh really just pursue the Lord. And there are opportunities. I know that there are quite a few churches around LA that have a more charismatic openness. And and so there are definitely other uh there are definitely other ways to get involved with the with the charismatic. In terms of like actual teaching, honestly, I'm not super familiar with other ministries that are similar. If you're not near an encounter campus, I mean there are 40 over 40 campuses worldwide. And so if you're not near one, they also have online options. But in terms of a school of supernatural ministry that's Catholic, uh encounter is is kind of the one that I'm aware of right now. It's the gold standard.

SPEAKER_01 50:56

Yeah. And there's an upcoming conference, right?

SPEAKER_00 51:00

Yeah. So there are a few upcoming conferences. There is going to be one in Mexico City. This is the um the Spanish national conference that they have every year. And then there is going to be one in um, they're having other ones uh in actually around the US. I know there's one in Boise that's coming up. Uh, and I have to look at there are more there's more information online with the other with the other ones, but there is their big main conference coming up in July 8th through the 10th, and it'll be in Grand Rapids, Michigan. And that's where like 5,000 people who are just on fire for the Holy Spirit. Actually, they've got people anywhere from being on fire for the Holy Spirit and people who are skeptical and doubtful, and just all gather together. And um, we've seen such great, like one of my favorite stories, super quickly of healing is this was a few years ago. This is still by far one of my most favorite healings that have that have happened. But the founders of Encounter, the co-founders brought up some of the directors to give a word of knowledge during a healing service. So these directors prayed, asked the Holy Spirit, like, what are you wanting to heal this morning? And one of the directors got just tooth in the back of the mouth, like the back of the right mouth, whatever, jaw. And no idea what that meant, what was going on. And whenever the person prayed corporately for everybody who stood up for this, if they had a if their particular ailment was called. So this woman stood up because she was missing a tooth in the back of her mouth. And when she received that corporate prayer, a tooth just grew right down. And it's like that never happens. This is an adult tooth, but right then and there, like, and she was like, Whoa, like what was that? Like she said it felt so weird and was like confused and had to like go to the bathroom to like check it out. But the Lord just grew her tooth, and and so you see such incredible things. It really grows your faith.

SPEAKER_01 53:05

Yeah, we haven't even talked, we didn't talk at all about healing in this in this podcast, but I am gonna be having Kia on and she's gonna healing. So there's prophecy is just one one of the pillars of the encounter school, and healing is another component. So yeah, there's a lot of opportunities to experience encounter, and there's transformation nights as well. Can you just quickly tell us about transformation nights? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:31

So our transformation nights are three parts to it. We do praise and worship, then we have a speaker come in, and then we do prayer teams. And so it's just a way for us to be able to minister to our public in in a uh in an intimate way. And for for anybody who needs to receive prayer for them to receive prayer. And we've seen like such incredible miracles there too, where I mean, we had somebody come last April who couldn't get pregnant because she had PCOS and she's delivering uh next month now after receiving prayer. God is so good.

SPEAKER_01 54:11

Um awesome. Well, I will link uh the encounter website in the show notes. And then I believe if people wanted to apply for the school for the fall, those applications are also open, right? Yeah, yeah. So applications are open for uh yeah, exactly. Okay, very exciting. I highly recommend it to anyone listening. It's changed my life, and I I'm not even finished yet. I can't imagine what the Lord's gonna do. So I'm so excited. Well, Christine, this has been such a joyful, amazing conversation. Thank you so much for being here today and just for the way you teach too. I've gotten to experience Christine's teachings, and she just teaches with so much heart, and she's got an amazing sense of humor and just makes everything that we're learning like so applicable and like allows us to be human and but also encourages us to make mistakes. And yeah, so you're definitely doing what God has put you on, put you here to do. And I'm just really grateful to know you and so grateful to be part of the school.

SPEAKER_00 55:17

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It was such an honor, and yeah, it's been such a joy getting to know you and Sheik. You guys are awesome, and I love everything that you're doing, and I feel the very much the same way that what the Lord has put you on this earth for that you are doing that. Aw, thank you so much. Well, I would love for you to close us out in prayer. Yeah, in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, amen. Come Holy Spirit. We praise you and we thank you. We give you thanks for this day, Lord. And right now, that as we connect with our breath, Lord, maybe may we connect with you, may we be reminded that you are closer to us than we are to ourselves. And because we have you dwelling inside of us, that means that we have the prince of priests, we have the king of kings, and we have the ruler of the universe alive in us. And may we live, may we breathe, may we sleep, may we eat from this knowledge over the course of this week, of this month, of this year, Lord. We pray that you draw us closer and closer to you, all of this, in Jesus' holy and precious name, amen.

SPEAKER_01 56:47

Amen.

unknown 56:50

Alright.

SPEAKER_01 56:53

Thanks so much for tuning in to the Living Whole and Holy podcast. If you're ready to dive deeper into life coaching from a Catholic perspective, I have a few spots available for one-on-one coaching. This is an amazing opportunity for you to work with someone who will empower you and support you to dream again with God, find more alignment, peace, and confidence in your life, and be the greatest version of who God is calling you to be. I would be so honored to support you on this journey. Send me a DM on Instagram at LivingHole and Holy for a free one on one call to learn more. If this episode blessed you, please subscribe, leave a review, and share with a friend. And remember, instead of doing what makes you happy, do what makes you holy. Until next time, God bless.