The Living Whole and Holy Podcast

23. From Skeptic to Believer: Physical Healing and Miracles With Father Pablo Martinez

• Carrie Jain • Season 1 • Episode 23

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In this powerful episode, I’m joined by Fr. Pablo Martinez, a Catholic priest from Madrid now serving in Los Angeles, who shares his incredible journey from skepticism to witnessing undeniable miracles.

Despite years of theological training, Fr. Pablo was initially doubtful about charismatic gifts and healing. But everything changed when he encountered God in a new, deeply personal way through Encounter Ministries.

From witnessing blind eyes opened and bodies healed— to experiencing a physical miracle in his own body—this conversation will stretch your faith and invite you into deeper intimacy with God.

We also dive into the beauty of inner healing, how God restores our hearts from within, and what to do when healing doesn’t happen right away.

In This Episode we explore:

  •  Fr. Pablo’s journey to the priesthood 
  •  Why he was skeptical of healing at first 
  •  Powerful miraculous physical healing testimonies (including his own) 
  •  How to hear God’s voice in daily life 
  •  What “inner healing” really is, and why it matters 
  •  The role of forgiveness in healing, and common blocks to receiving healing
  •  Redemptive suffering & trusting God’s will 
  •  Can non-believers receive healing? 

Connect & Resources:

Follow Carrie on Instagram @livingwholeandholy

Schedule a Free 1:1 Catholic Coaching Clarity Call with Carrie

SPEAKER_04

Welcome to the Living Whole and Holy podcast, where the Catholic faith and intentional living come together. I'm your host, Carrie Jane, a recent Catholic convert and Catholic coach, here to guide you toward a life that's rooted in Christ, centered in his love, and aligned with God's call. Whether you're a convert, revert, cradle Catholic, or simply exploring the faith, you're in the right place. Join me each week to hear inspiring conversations including conversion and reversion stories, timeless wisdom from the church, and practical Catholic coaching tools that help you deepen your faith and intimacy with Christ, cultivate Christ-centered habits, and be transformed through the renewing of your mind. If you're ready to discover and align to the beauty and richness of a fully integrated Catholic life, you've found your home. I'm so excited you're here. Let's get started.

SPEAKER_00

Hello, Kerry. Hello, everybody. Thank you for having me here today. Well, I'm a Spanish priest from Madrid. I've been a priest for 17 years now, and I live in Los Angeles because I came to study. I came to study a master's in uh spiritual direction at Alamieo, Loyola Marymount University. And at the same time, to be closer to encountering ministries, which I really love, and I I can uh speak about that later. But yeah, in these in these years, I've been um uh pastor and associate pastor in different parishes in Madrid, in Italy, and I love missions a lot, and uh with my community I've been uh in uh little missions in different places of the world, especially Africa and South America, also um uh Cuba, Mexico, well, also parts of uh Central and North America. So, yeah. Uh now this is like a longer mission for being in the States, uh, but very happy, very happy to be here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Wonderful. Well, it sounds like you've got a lot of amazing experiences as a priest. So I would love to go back to your journey with Catholicism and your journey to becoming a priest. I know that you have so much wisdom to share about healing and you have your own healing story, which I can't wait to share with everybody. So I mean, I'm just curious how you how you got into the priesthood and maybe just a little bit of your background as a Catholic.

SPEAKER_00

Well, my family is very Catholic. So it was normal for us to speak about these things at home. Actually, when I was a child, I wanted to become three things. One, I wanted to become a soccer player because I love soccer. Uh I can I I still love it. Then also a doctor because my grandfather was a doctor. And also a priest, and uh that started very in in when I was very young. I think I think this design was in my heart when I was six or so. I remember my father talking to us about how the priest is the most powerful man on earth because he can make that God um come down again, like in the incarnation in and during the mass, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So, and uh, I was amazed by that. I was I was saying, wow, I want to be that, right? Of course that's that uh developed in time, but I I always had this um attraction, we can say, to the Lord to be near Him. I loved serving the altar in Mass, I love being in prayer. Of course, I loved uh playing and especially soccer a lot, and it was a very um happy child. But yeah, I I felt this attraction, and then I started to go to some um vocational groups, and finally I I decided very young to make a serious path of the sermon. So I started that path at 16. So I entered the community at 16 uh to see that was really my vocation, and well, here I am now. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04

That's beautiful, I love it. And I know that your story getting connected with Encounter Ministries was very God-led. If you could share about that, that would be great. Just a little bit about what Encounter Ministries is, because I've spoken about it before on the podcast and let everybody know that I'm in the school and it's very transformative, and a huge part of it is healing. But I would just love for you to share how you got involved. Sure.

SPEAKER_00

Well, in the first place, I have to say that I was very reluctant. Uh, because I my background wasn't charismatic at all. So um I really saw the charismatic people or meetings like something weird. I didn't like it. I thought these people are weird, are crazy, things like that. So I didn't like it. But I was a pastor in Madrid, um, it was like four years ago, and some of my parishioners started to tell me things that they couldn't absolutely they couldn't know. It wasn't possible. Like things that people were coming to tell me for the first time in their lives, very deep wounds, very deep uh uh problematic situations. And these other people came to me saying, Well, we're receiving in prayer this, this, this. And uh, it was like I couldn't believe that such a thing could be possible. I mean, I I started to be really curious, no. So I started to talk to some of my friends that were in the charismatic world, we can say that. And they started to explain to me more about these things, how the Lord wants to give his charisms and gifts to people, not because they're very brave or very sane, but because they're disciples and all that. And okay, yeah, that makes sense, but still, you know, some doubts. So I started to read, to look for formation, and finally, some people told me about encounter ministries that was starting at that time the the online um uh courses. So I said, Well, this is useful to me because it's online. And well, I signed up, and the first year I shared this all the time with uh encounter students. The first year I was doubting all the time. All the time. Because you know, when you have studied theology, you have to compare things with what you know. Because we there's they're talking about these things that and they do it very well. I mean, I liked it because they are rooting in our Catholic faith, in sacred scripture, in um in the tradition of the church, in the magisterium, in the history of the lives of saints. Everything that they are explaining is very rooted. It's not just because they say so, you know. So that for me was very important. But at the same time, I had to kind of verify, you know, because um I'm I mean, I I've I've received a lot of formation. I also had done at that time a master's in history of the church, which brings you a this feeling of all the history of the church and that helps you to understand better things. So yeah, I was comparing all the time, but at the same time, I saw a transformation in me, a big transformation in me, because that helped me to many things in my daily life. For example, first thing I realized that helped me just at the beginning was how could I hear the Lord better in my prayer life? Of course, I was praying. I was a priest, I was doing like, I don't know, two hours of prayer every day. I mean, I prayed. And yeah, sometimes I felt the Lord in my prayer, but I didn't uh know and or I didn't accept more specifically that the Lord could communicate with me in such a direct way. I thought that that was reserved in my mind. I don't know why. Well, perhaps that's the information I received, but that the um communication from the Lord is just something uh extraordinary, you know. So I didn't thought that I could be uh in that group, you know. And through encounter I understood that that's really for everyone, that you can hear the Lord because you have been created for that, and that made sense, but I didn't accept that at that time. So I started to accept that, and then I was astonished by how I could hear the Lord in my own prayer for me, also for other people. I remember being in the confessional in my parish at in Madrid, and I started to feel during confessions, when I was hearing confessions, a big and strong love for the person who was confessing, even if I couldn't see who the person was, or I didn't know if I knew that person at all. But like a big love, and I was in tears, and I was really embarrassed, you know, because if someone saw me, it's like, but I noticed that the person also was in tears, and that didn't happen just one time, that happened lots of times, and I I thought they're gonna kick me out of the pairs because everyone is getting is getting out crying from the professional, you know. But uh it was so incredible the the change that accepting that the Lord can speak to you and also learning how he speaks to us, yes, changing that part of my life, and then of course the um the healing that's that's another big thing.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, yes, that's what I'm very excited to talk to you about. But just going back to what you said, how amazing is it that you have these skills from encounter as a priest, as a spiritual director, you know, how much more you're able to offer people coming to confession and for spiritual direction.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. I think it's a gift. I think it's a gift, and it's there. I mean, the the and in Canada they say that a lot of times, but it's true. It's there in our in in the deposit of our faith and the the richness of our faith. It's there. The only thing is that we we think it's not for us.

SPEAKER_04

Exactly. Sometimes, yeah. I know I I come from a uh Protestant background as a convert. And I think what encounter has helped me to really realize is that miracles are everywhere and we just need to ask for them. Because I had a Protestant pastor one time say, Oh, miracles really aren't that common. And so Encounter has really showed me that God actually wants us to experience miracles. He is a God of miracles, and it's just really made my faith deeper in that regard.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. For me, that's been a big change and to expect for him to act, because the miracles are made by him, right? We are collaborating with him. But at the same time, I like a lot how encounter has helped me in my daily life, even if it's not a miracle, like this talking to him, like this sensing his presence, like things that are like our daily bread, we can say uh it's called to be our daily bread, to be to have this intimacy with the Lord, um, to see how he sees with compassion, with uh with love for other people. And that's well, that's not like officially a miracle, right? But of course, that changes your life.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I would love to hear your story about your leg.

SPEAKER_00

Sure.

SPEAKER_04

The miracle that happened with that right before your eyes.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Well, that story has um a beginning. And uh, I was this was last year. I was in the second year of encounter, and even if I was uh in the second year, I was with doubts. Uh I'm a very, I don't know, um hard person to convince. Once I convince, you know, uh I can I can't go really far, but it's difficult to convince me of things. So uh I was doubting. I remember a cla a class. I was already here in Los Angeles, and I was in class in person. And uh I had this, we had this class about physical healing, who in which which um they developed more what they had taught us in the first year, because the first year we covered that too. But in the second year, it's like going deeper into that. And I remember having doubts. As you know, in Encounter there, there's a lot of practice too. So at the end of the class, they asked for a person who had a problem or uh pain, and uh, I volunteered. They prayed for me, and I was receiving the prayer with little faith, really thinking that this is not gonna work, this is not for me, things like that. So I asked the Lord, well, if you want me to really believe in this, please let me know. Show me, you know, show me. And a few days uh after that, I received an email from encounter from the main campus saying that they were organizing a mission trip to Belize to pray for physical healing. And I said, Okay, perhaps this is the answer from the Lord. So I asked the Lord, well, if you want me to go, help me because I have no money to go to this trip. And I wrote to them saying that, well, I'm interested in going. I'm a priest, I speak Spanish too, so I think I could be useful, but I don't have any money, so you want to mean to go. And they provided, so I saw the door, the Lord opening doors there. And during that week in Belize, uh I saw so many miracles in front of me, even through me, even with my little face, you know, but incredible, incredible. So like people with scoliosis that have their backs uh right. I remember a guy with a big problem in his knee because he had a terrible accident and had been in therapy for months, and that day the pain went off. I remember a person that had a stroke and uh half of her face couldn't move it, you know, it's like what paralyzed, and uh well, everything became uh right, he could move their face, and I mean blind people started to see uh deaf people started to hear it. It was like the gospel, it was it was crazy, it was crazy in many places, and the most beautiful thing was that all that for them was a clear action of the Lord, they connected that with Jesus and they really had an increase in their faith. So when I came back from Belize, I was convinced that that was true. So I gave my testimony in the regional conference we had here in Los Angeles because I that was a transformation for me. But a few weeks later, I went to another event. They invited me to go to an event in Mexico City. Okay, and in this other event wasn't from the encounter at all. Uh, but I I um the previous day of this meeting, this event, I went to an encounter event in Mexico City. And then and there I I met all the leadership group of uh Mexico City, and one of the girls told me about her story of how she had a shorter leg, and they prayed for her in the first year, and uh her leg grew. And she had the video. So when you see these videos on YouTube, you oh I I would be the one who say that's not true. That's that's made up. But she was the one telling me, and she was saying, This is my video. I I recorded this. So I really believed that. And she said, Do you know this guy? Yeah, yeah, I know. We we had a friend in common, and she said, Well, we we prayed for him too two months ago, and his leg grew too. So I said, Okay, okay, okay. So can you please and this other guy, we find each other tomorrow in the other event. The two of you and other people, if you want, pray for me because I also had a shorter leg. Not very shorter, but uh I I had a lift in my in the sole of my uh foot all the time uh to be balanced, right? So the next day uh the event started with a concert. There was like 10,000 people in there, and we found each other, the three of us found each other. So, okay, so let's pray. But let's look for a place a little bit, you know, um private, because everyone was singing and crying. So we went to the back and um we found also other people from encounter there, and at the door of that little room where we're going to pray, there was Christopher West. You know Christopher West? Yes. So I I had been praying to meet him in person for for months, and okay. So Chris, are you Christopher West? Yes, okay. Uh can you pray for me? So so uh seven people were praying for me. I sat down, I had my legs on another chair, they prayed for me, and it it grew in front of us. So, but at that moment, you know, the most beautiful thing for me, because I didn't feel anything, but then I had to take off my lift because if not, I wasn't balanced. You know, I needed it to be balanced before, but I I wasn't balanced with that anymore. So, but the most beautiful thing for me was that I experienced inside of me that God the Father cared for me in a real way, and I realized that I had a little block with God the Father that I hadn't seen before that. And from that moment, every time I celebrate Mass, you know, in Mass, all the prayers are directed to God the Father. Every time I I celebrate Mass or I pray my personal prayer or I pray the liturgy of the hours, and I I'm directing myself, alerting my prayers to the Father, it is a new connection, you know. It's like you are the one who who saved me, who healed me. I know you, you know? Yeah, and I know that you care for me. It's that's that's the most amazing thing for me because of course it wasn't a very big deal for me then. Like sort of like I don't know, I I live with that without problem.

SPEAKER_04

But did you have pain or no?

SPEAKER_00

Well, my in my back, yeah. But well, that's that was forever. So I mean, I was used to that. But this thing really changed a lot of things in my in my spiritual life too, and in my faith. And now I pray for healing with faith, knowing that the Lord does these things, you know. He does these things because he has done it with me and with many people. And this year I went back to Belize some weeks ago, and it was incredible again. I mean, I I leaded some uh killing services in in high schools, in parishes. We're preparing a video. I I want to once it's it's prepared with testimonies and all that I will send to you so you can share it. But the Lord continues to do miracles. That's that's true. I mean, I didn't believe that either, but I can't deny that anymore.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, absolutely. That's amazing. What would you say to people who feel like the healing ended? Um, and it's it's no longer what lay people can do, like it ended in the Acts of the Apostles.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that's what I thought. So I know, I know we're thinking. I was at that, I was at that position too. You know, I I I've been thinking about that a lot because how did we arrive to that conclusion? Because there is, of course, there is no document of the church saying that, right? So it's a conclusion we have arrived to. And why? Well, because we haven't seen miracles in our lives. So, conclusion, there's no more miracles today, so it must be this. It must be that that was something for the first moments of church or for very saint people, very holy people, for the saints. That that actually was my mindset.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, that was mine too, before encounter.

SPEAKER_00

And because people tell, but but if you think about that, why do we arrive to that conclusion? Because we haven't seen miracles. If we see miracles, that theory is not valid anymore.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Not valid. If you see a miracle, and in my team, and when we went to Belize, in my team, there were doctors. I mean, it's not something that I thought I I'm a priest and not a doctor, so I can be well, people can say things to me and I can believe things that are not true, but they were there were doctors in there that it's incredible listening to their testimonies, you know, because they are using all these technical words to explain the miracle and that how that's impossible for uh well for it has to be something supernatural. I remember uh a journalist that came to them and started to interview them, and this person wasn't a person of faith. So she asked them about the mission and all that, and they answered, yeah, we're we're praying for people to heal. And she said, Well, probably people that you're praying for, they think that they're better. It's in their mind, something that they feel better because you are listening to them, things like that, right? And they said, Well, we are doctors in the United States, you know, we can differentiate those things. And I can tell you and I can assure you that this is something that we we can't explain by science. This is impossible. So this is a miracle, and yeah, so I would tell to those people that are I I would encourage them to see some miracles. I think that's the only way, but to see them, you need to have a little faith. You don't need to have a lot. I didn't have a lot, I had a lot of doubts. But I to give the Lord the chance to show you and to ask for Him.

SPEAKER_02

For for days to Him, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah, faith is so important. And then we've also learned that faith is important for the one healing and the one receiving healing as well. So can you expound on that a little bit?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, sure. Sure. The for the one receiving them, because we see that in the gospel all the time. Jesus, every time he was going to heal someone, ask him, Do you believe I can heal you? Things like that. And the person probably didn't had a lot of knowledge of the content of faith. Probably anyone listening to this podcast has a lot more knowledge of the people healed in the gospel by Jesus. If we have received formation or catechises or things like that, the people meeting people in the gospel, meeting Jesus in the gospel, just knew that he was something extraordinary. He was a healer, that he was an important person, uh like a master, something like that. But faith in this case means not the content, but trust in the person, trust. And um we I I'm sure that anyone listening to a podcast like this one has that faith. They trust Jesus. And it doesn't have to be uh a perfect faith. It it it you just have to trust Jesus so the miracle can happen. Uh we see also an encounter teaches us uh this, and it this is very curious, but very powerful too. That there can be some blocks to receive healing, and I've seen that many, many times. Last time was two weeks ago in here. We have the first encounter event in Spanish in the United States. Uh, it was here in Los Angeles two weeks ago, and there were 200 people attending the event, and we did adoration, then a short talk, and then prayer for people, like prayer teams two by two, and people come and receive prayer. And the people coming didn't want to leave until they had received prayer. They wouldn't leave. So the church had to locked, right? To get locked uh at 10. But they wouldn't leave, they wanted to receive prayer, so we were praying until midnight. And seriously, I I think we can't we all all the teens uh thought that we could we could feel like like Jesus or the the the apostles that they were really tired because they were praying for people, you know. But at the end, the last person was uh a man in his 40s, I would say. And he was very simple, very happy man. And he said that he had this grey pain in all his uh arms and hands, and that he couldn't move very well, and he was a strong man, so it was very annoying for him, right? So we prayed for him, nothing happened. Then uh well, we apply what we learn in um in encounter, and one of the possible blocks is unforgiveness. So we asked him, Do you think there's someone in your life you have to forgive right now? And he said, No, I don't think so. Well, just ask the Holy Spirit if there is someone. And he went to prayer a little bit, he asked to the Lord, and he said, Well, probably, yeah, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna forgive some people. So we led him through a little prayer of forgiveness, and after that we prayed again, and uh we prayed again, and he was completely healed. The pain went off completely, and he he was saying, This is incredible, this is incredible. Amazed, father. You said in your thought, this is not magic, but I think it's magic. He was so part of it. So sometimes these blocks are very real, and unforgiveness is one of them. The will of controlling everything is another possible block. Trauma can be a block because you close yourself to everyone, even to God. And um, the other possible block is sin. So we go through these possible blocks when we think that something is not working, and sometimes it's like in this case, it's um really clear that that was the block. Of course, I have to say, this is not uh like um passing a button, it's not something automatic, it is Jesus, it's a person. Jesus is the one healing through us. So the thing is that we know that he loves doing this to get people closer to him, but sometimes nothing happens, and that's that's also possible. And and well, we are not the ones who are doing or not doing the thing. We are asking the Lord. Yeah, asking the Lord, and in his name, that's why always, even if we say something directly, we always say in the name of Jesus, because it's not from us, it's not coming from us, it's coming from him. But even if we know that that doesn't happen all the time, that that is that is not automatic. I can see and I can say and I can testify that I've seen so many miracles. And the more convinced I am when I pray, the more I see. The more, the more happens at me, the more happens. Because if I doubt, well, finally I am the one blocking, blocking Jesus. Yeah, finally, it's his thing, it's not me, it's not for my applause or merit. It's just being there for him to show up. And if he wants to show up, it's okay. He doesn't want to, it's okay. It's his thing, it's like Patrick, one of the founders of um Encounters, says, it wasn't my idea, it was Jesus' idea, you know. So he sent every disciple to do this at the end before going up to heaven.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah, I love what you said about unforgiveness because the more we hold on to grudges and think that that's benefiting us, it really isn't. And the Lord can give you so many more graces when when you've let that go. And so that has come up a lot for people. Yeah. And also not feeling worthy or feeling insignificant. Can you talk about that too? Because those can be plots.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Sure. Like this is not for you because you don't deserve that, things like that. Finally, that's a way of closing yourself to God. Sometimes it's hard because it's like that attitude looks like humility, but it's the opposite, actually. What we call false humility, right? Look, we think we go to that place thinking that it's humility that we don't deserve and we don't have to ask for for these big things. And of course, there is a point in that. So, I mean, if we are always looking, always and only looking for miracles, for big things, for the the show, of course, we are not in the right path. Because that means that we are not asking or looking for the Lord, we are asking looking for like these fireworks. But we know that God is the God of miracles, so we don't accept that part of God. We are rejecting God. You know what I mean? So the right point is going to God with what you have in the situation you are, with the needs you have, recognizing that having needs is human and it's okay, and that we need our father. And sometimes he will provide naturally, and sometimes he will provide supernaturally, because he is God.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But the one deciding that is him, not us.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I'm not saying the I'm not telling the Lord, you should help me this way.

SPEAKER_04

We have no idea how he wants to do it.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. That's not humility. Humility is like children do with their parents. They need something and they go and they say, Mom, I need this. And then the mother is the one who is going to decide how to provide. So going to God like that uh is the right attitude. If we are closing ourselves to some specific ways that God can use, we are trying to put conditions to Him.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You think so?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And of course, we don't we have to be also, this is this is because it's it's it's not a right attitude, but at the same time uh is very understandable. I have to say that too. It's very understandable. And if we have or had in the past that attitude, we have to be kind with ourselves, okay? Because that's a mechanism of defense. Because probably we have been hurt in the past. So understanding that that's okay, you have that tendency, but finally you have the last decision. So even if you are tempted to go to that place, you can say, No, I want to go like I am to my father. It's humility, not hiding anything, not putting him boundaries, and not putting boundaries to myself in front of the Lord. That's something we need to ask help from the Lord Himself. Yeah, that's where inner healing comes.

SPEAKER_04

Tell us about inner healing.

SPEAKER_00

Uh-huh. That's a good point. I love inner healing. Um, actually, physical healing is more spectacular. But I think inner healing is more transformative. Inner healing basically is the Lord healing your mind. Yes. Or even your body, but inside, in in this um healing you for from traumas, from wounds, from attachments, from addictions. And of course, in all that, the body is also connected. We are one being, but it's something more internal. That's why uh, well, our minds need time um to these kind of processes. So that's why inner child normally is it requires a longer prayer, but it the the the result of that is is freedom for the person. So that changes all your life. If you have a problem in your hand, for example, and you get healed, well, you can do things that you couldn't do before. But if you are freer inside of you, you you don't, I don't know, for example, you are free from anxiety, you are free from some addiction, you are free from uh fear of people, your your life changes completely. Yeah, but really, it's amazing. I've I've experienced that. I didn't I didn't know that I needed that so much when I received prayer for inner healing the first time. But it was wow, I didn't and and it's it's very curious because it's like therapy, but praying. Um and since you invite the Lord to that uh session of inner healing prayer, the Lord can do more in a session of 90 minutes than a therapist in six months, for example. The therapist helps you to be feel safe in an environment and helps you to notice things you weren't noticing, and sometimes accompanies you to a memory and work that memory. So different techniques that help you to rebuild that from inside out. The Lord does that like this. When you invite him, I remember um I remember that um one of my uh teachers in the encounter uh told us this this little story of hers, which was the first thing I I heard about inner healing, but she told us that she was a very happy girl when she was young, and um she didn't know why. When she became um um a teenager, she started to have problems with eating and all that, right? Um also started to have problems at school, high school, and no one knew what was happening because she had always been um an intelligent girl and happy girl and all that. So they she went to therapy and they couldn't find any cause of that. Uh so the problem continued until some point someone offered her inner healing, inner healing prayer. So during that session, there is a moment in which memories can come to you, right? And um, she had this memory of herself being five or six years old in um in a gathering of her family for a birthday or something, and uh, she loved to dance, and she started to dance in the middle of or all the people of her family, but no one was paying attention to her, no one. So she felt really like no one cared for her, she was invisible, she wasn't pretty, she wasn't worthy and all that. And the during this uh process of uh inner feeling prayer, you invite Jesus to that moment, to that memory. So she invited Jesus and asked him, Where were you that moment? And he saw in her mind Jesus like doing this, like um putting his arm on the on the wall, looking at her, like really delighting yeah, like seeing how beautiful she was, um, and loving his her dance and all that. And for her, that was such a deep change that Jesus really loved her and was seen, he felt seen, uh valued, uh, you know, that so all their all her problems stopped after that session.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

And the the therapist was saying, What happened? You're like Jesus happened for months in here and nothing happened, and now you're okay.

SPEAKER_04

Wow, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_00

And you see, that wasn't a big trauma.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

We think about trauma, we can think about I know much bigger things like that than that. But for her as a five or six years old girl, that was a big thing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And seeing Jesus in there, and not only seeing in her mind, but also feeling his his presence and his love. Because when Jesus shows up, you can feel that it's Jesus. It's not your imagination, just your imagination. It's it's something deep, like strong, you know. And uh yeah, so she she told us that story, and I can say yeah, I can say that uh Many I I I've done I've done uh interstellar sessions with many people and it's incredible what Jesus does. It's incredible. And how their lives change. Of course, it's not definitive, probably it's a process, so you need sessions. And it's normally it's okay that if you need therapies, you go to continue to go. It's not horror.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Right? It's yeah. But it's something that helps a lot.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, absolutely. It's that renewing of the mind.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. Yeah. Renewing and healing. Because renewing can happen also just by uh changing your mentality. But in this case, is renewing and healing. Because sometimes we have wounds inside of us. And well, as you know, when we are wounded, um it's like when you hurt yourself, imagine you hurt yourself in your hand, and if you don't heal the wound, uh it can be infected, right? So these these infections uh in our in our mind can be these lies we believe. So for this teacher of mine, she really believed that she wasn't pretty, that she that no one cares for her or cared for her, that why should she dance if anyone is gonna see? Why should you know, these kind of things? She really believed all those lies. And uh during this process, we learn to identify those lies, to renounce those lies, and then to ask the Lord for truths to um put in the place of the lies, and then we repeat those truths for for a time in our prayer, so we can really have this uh yeah, this transformation of our mind with truths that comes from the Lord. And um in this moment of prayer, if the Lord tells you directly, it's much more powerful than if you see them in other places because it's it comes from a moment of prayer. So it's everything, it's very powerful, it's very, very beautiful. New feeling is playable. I like it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I'm looking forward to learning how to to do this very soon.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you will, you will.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_00

I think you're going to to learn uh soon enough, yeah, because it's at the end of first year.

SPEAKER_04

So okay, well, we're coming up on that time. It's great. I wanted to talk to you about redemptive suffering as well. And you know, because there are people who do ask for healing and and they don't receive the healing, and then sometimes there can be a an anger or frustration with God. But tell us a little bit about the role of redemptive suffering.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. I I like the way again encounter um explains this because of course this is a very important part of our faith. We believe that Jesus gave meaning to suffering. The same way that we believe that he gave to the water the power of forgiving sins when he was baptized. He didn't need baptism, and the baptism of John wasn't to uh forgive sins, but he wanted to go through his own baptism, and at that moment he uh like started the Christian baptism, giving the waters there this power with the sacrament of baptism. So the same way Jesus wanted to go through suffering, he who is God, who doesn't need to suffer, but he decided to go through suffering to give meaning to the suffering. So this is a part that we also have in our faith. So suffering wasn't in the original plan of God, but that's also something we believe that suffering came because of the original sin, like death and death and uh like all the evil. But Jesus wanted to give some meaning to that, so when we have to go through that, it's not worthless. So the two realities are true, it is not part of the plan of God in the in the original plan of God wasn't suffering, and in the end, there won't be suffering. We believe that when we rise from the dead uh the last day, there won't be um sickness or or pain or you know, or sadness. We say that in every funeral mass, right? So if suffering is not at the beginning and it's not at the end, that means that it's not part of the original plan of God. It was introduced because of original sin. So one part is is this is not what the Lord wants, it's it doesn't come from Him. Okay, and the second reality is Jesus gave some meaning to suffering. So suffering is not just something apart from the original plan of God, but it can be something that helps us to be closer to the mystery of the resurrection, right? Because that's what the cross did, right? The cross led to the resurrection, so it it can have the same effect on us. So the two things are important. The problem is when we only take one of them and exclude the other one. You know what I mean? So if we think that if we take the second one, for example, many people think in the Catholic world, think that, well, suffering, if you suffer with Jesus, you help him to save humanity, you are closer to the Lord, and all that is true. But then they forget the other part, and then they give the suffering the most important place in their lives, and they're looking for suffering all the time. I've seen people like that. Yeah, like it brings you more points, okay. But that's that's because you're not thinking of the on the other part. The other part is that it wasn't part of the original plan of God and it won't be part of the definitive plan of God, so that means that it's not better than you know, it's a consequence. So the the the right attitude towards suffering should be: if I have to suffer, I'm gonna offer that to the Lord. But at the same time, I'm gonna be a children of God and I'm gonna ask the Lord, if you want, please do your plan on me right now, because I know that you love me and your plan for me is that I'm okay. And that's exactly what Jesus did at Gethsemane. I'm not inventing anything, right? It's just Jesus as if if it's possible, what may you will be done? So if the best for us in that moment is to suffer, well, the Lord won't heal us, and but will give us the the strength and the graces we need to um unite ourselves to Jesus in that suffering. And sometimes more than we think, he wants to heal us. And as we said before, that's his decision to make. So the right thing to do is ask him, and of course, always if this is your will.

SPEAKER_02

So well said.

SPEAKER_04

I'm thinking about crossing the chicken line, and I love encounter how we talk about that and how sometimes we might be ministering to people who don't believe in Jesus. So can people who don't believe in Jesus be healed by Jesus?

SPEAKER_02

Sure. I've seen that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, sure. I think that the the trick, if you want, it's not a trick, but it's like I don't have that word to remember, is trying to have the same look to people that Jesus would have. So how would Jesus look to these people right now with compassion, with love? He died for them. He died for them. They're very known for him. I don't know them, or perhaps I know they don't believe in Jesus, but having this attitude of compassion of Jesus, he's the thing that starts the process. If you just want to convert them, you are starting back. You don't have to convert them, you have to be in the place to let God operate through you what he wants to do. Of course, we know that converting is better, but we don't know the time, we don't know if it's the right moment, we don't know if that first they need to see something or to understand something. We don't know, we are not God. But having this attitude of compassion for them and trying to connect yourself with God, which is the one who will give you that compassion attitude, that I mean, that can be perceived by other people.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

And I'm sure that all of us have the bad experience that if we try to convince people, probably we won't get any conversion.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Perhaps, perhaps the Lord can do whatever he wants, but because it's a question of you are right, I'm not, or I'm right, you're not. And then there's a little battle in there, right? But if you approach someone with compassion, and perhaps it's just hearing their story and putting some light on that and saying that the Lord wants them really well, or I don't know what the Lord tells you to say or to do in that moment. But the more tools you have, your tool belt, right, as disciple, the more available you are to use specific things that that person needs in that moment. For example, imagine you're talking in the cafe with someone, and you know it's not a believer, but you start to hear the story, and finally that person opens up to you and and shows you a lot of pain, a lot of wounds, and then well, you can offer inner healing prayer, for example. If you don't know that, you you just say, I'm sorry, you know. Or if they have a pain in some part of their body, you can offer them a little prayer for healing. Where, you know, the more you are prepared, the more the Lord can work through you. But the first thing is compassion, not convincing.

SPEAKER_04

Absolutely. Yeah. And I think about that before I was Christian, there were people in my neighborhood, and I'm like, something's different about them. And I later learned that they were Christian. And like you said, people can just feel it.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_04

If you're abiding and you're asking him to be that light for the world around you. And I think, I mean, I personally haven't had a whole lot of experience outside of the class yet in ministering to the public. But one thing that I've been drawn to is just asking the Lord, who do you want me to minister to today? And that can be very scary. But at the same time, it's beautiful because, like you said in the beginning, this whole thing is about creating more intimacy with the Lord and for us to get closer. And then obviously, if someone has a healing experience from your prayer, that's an opportunity for that person, one, to come back to the faith, to come to the faith for the first time, or to know Jesus for the first time. And then also strengthening our belief in miracles. So God knows what he's doing with all of this, He's orchestrating it so beautifully, and He just wants us to participate.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. I love that expression in encounter that uh God loves to team up with you. I love that expression, but it's it's amazing. And when you do that, you see that you that you see that happening, and that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Jesus trusts you. Okay.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it's beautiful. It's really yeah. Well, before we go, I always like to ask my guests. This podcast is called Living Whole and Holy, and I would love to know what that means for you.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, well, I think it's a very good phrase because we need to be whole, to be holy, uh, in the sense that to be holy is to participate of the holiness of God, who is the only holy. And um, he has created us as a whole, and one of the consequences of the original sin was divided us inside. So this this fragmentation, the original sin and sin in general has a consequence of dividing us from God, dividing us from other people, but also dividing us inside of us, fragmenting us. So holiness means that we are integrated inside, and also we are like repairing all these divisions inside of us, towards the Lord, towards other people. So the more integrated we are, the more saints we are, because we go back to the original desire or plan of God, and you know, the one who is the bones, and the one who does this integration is the Holy Spirit. Because He's the one unifying, one who unifies. So I think it's very it's very interesting that phrase. Yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_04

I love what you said. Just asking the Lord to integrate all the parts of us that have gotten separated from sin. Beautiful. Are there any links or anything where anyone can find you or anything about encounter that you'd like to share that I could post in the show notes?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I actually have a podcast of the uh of the gospel of the day. It's it's in Spanish, okay.

SPEAKER_04

That's okay. I have some.

SPEAKER_00

But but you know, we also post it in YouTube. And now, as you know, YouTube is doing this um artificial intelligence translations, which are not very bad, surprisingly. So you can even hear that podcast in English, actually. So the um yeah, I I I'm gonna send you the link uh to because it's in Spanish. So yeah, yeah, I think it's it's the reading of the gospel of the day of the mass, and then uh a little commentary. So finally it's like eight minutes.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_00

Which is short and you can listen to that. But I tried to do a little suggestion for prayer based on the commentary so we can help people to pray a little bit that day with the readings of the day or the gospel of the day.

SPEAKER_04

That's great. Maybe you can be on Hello one day.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, who knows?

SPEAKER_04

Well, that's great. I will post that. And before we go, would you mind closing us in prayer?

SPEAKER_00

Sure. Sure. In the Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Amen. Heavenly Father, thank you for all the gifts you have given to us, to each one of us. I pray you especially for Carrie and this podcast, for everyone who is listening to this podcast, that they may be really open to you. They may be um that may they recognize their needs, their deep desires, and present all that to you, knowing that you are our good father who provides for us. I ask you to bless them, to bless their families, their jobs, when they possess their projects. And uh I ask you to guide them, especially in this time of land, to a deeper conversion, to be closer and closer to you, our Lord. I ask you through the intercession of Mary, our mother, in the name of Jesus and in the Holy Spirit. Amen.

SPEAKER_04

Amen. Well, thank you, Father Pablo. This was a wonderful conversation. Thank you for all you were doing to uh do the work Jesus puts in your heart to do for healing, and God bless you.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you, Kerry. I bless you too. See you soon.

SPEAKER_04

Thanks so much for tuning in to the Living Whole and Holy podcast. If you're ready to dive deeper into life coaching from a Catholic perspective, I have a few spots available for one-on-one coaching. This is an amazing opportunity for you to work with someone who will empower you and support you to dream again with God, find more alignment, peace, and confidence in your life, and be the greatest version of who God is calling you to be. I would be so honored to support you on this journey. Send me a DM on Instagram at LivingHole and Holy for a free one on one call to learn more. If this episode blessed you, please subscribe, leave a review, and share with a friend. And remember, instead of doing what makes you happy, do what makes you holy. Until next time, God bless.