The Living Whole and Holy Podcast

Should Christians Practice Yoga? Catholic Author Linda Carl Shares Why She Walked Away

• Carrie Jain • Season 1 • Episode 39

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Many Christians believe yoga is simply stretching or exercise—but is that the whole story?

In today's episode, I'm joined by Linda Carl, author of Yoga Unveiled, former yoga instructor, and faithful Catholic, for an eye-opening conversation about yoga's spiritual roots and why it isn't compatible with the Christian faith.

As someone who spent years immersed in yoga, Reiki, eastern meditation, and New Age spirituality before encountering Jesus Christ, this conversation was especially meaningful to me. Linda and I share parts of our own journeys, discuss what ultimately led us away from these practices, and explain why true peace is found in Christ alone.

Whether you've practiced yoga yourself, have loved ones who do, or have simply wondered what the Catholic Church teaches, this episode offers clarity, compassion, and hope.

In this episode we discuss:

  •  Linda's journey from "sacramentalized but not catechized" Catholic to passionate disciple of Christ 
  •  Why yoga is much more than physical exercise 
  •  The Hindu roots of yoga and the true meaning behind many common poses, chants, and practices 
  •  The spiritual dangers of Reiki, chakras, Kundalini yoga, and other New Age practices 
  •  Why so many Christians unknowingly mix their faith with New Age spirituality 
  •  How Jesus offers a peace the world can never give 
  •  Practical steps for anyone who wants to leave yoga or New Age practices behind 
  •  The beauty of the sacraments, confession, prayer, and authentic Christian healing 

If this episode encourages you, please consider sharing it with someone who may benefit from hearing it.

Resources Mentioned:

Connect with Linda:
Follow Linda on Instagram @yogaunveiled

About Linda Carl

Linda Carl is the author of Yoga Unveiled. After spending more than twenty years immersed in yoga—including becoming a certified yoga instructor—God led her to discover the spiritual roots of yoga and ultimately back to the fullness of the Catholic faith. Today she serves her parish and Catholic organizations while helping others discern the spiritual dangers of yoga and New Age practices and embrace the peace found only in Jesus Christ.

Connect with Carrie:
Follow Carrie on Instagram @livingwholeandholy


SPEAKER_00

Hi everyone, before we begin today's episode, I want to share something that's on my heart. Today's conversation is ultimately about hope. It's about the freedom and lasting peace that Jesus Christ offers every one of us. Linda and I both spent years sincerely searching for peace. We believed we had found it in practices like yoga and other new age spirituality. We're not sharing our stories to shame anyone, condemn anyone, or create fear. We're sharing them because we discovered the peace we were searching for is found in Jesus Christ. If parts of our stories resonate with your own journey, please know this. It's about God's invitation into something greater. His mercy is infinite, his love never fails, and he's always calling us closer to himself. My prayer is that as you listen, you'll hear not just a warning, but an invitation to the freedom, peace, and fullness of life that only Christ can give.

SPEAKER_02

Let's get started.

SPEAKER_00

After nearly a decade in the corporate world, Linda left her career to stay at home and raise her daughters. It was then that she began her deep journey into yoga, the reason for this book. Today she's passionate about living her Catholic faith and leads a weekly prayer cynical for Mary, Mother, Guardian of Our Faith. She serves on several boards. She's the vice president of the Legacy of Life Foundation, the president of the Bucks County Chapter of La Gatus, and the Penn State Libraries Developmental Board. She has a bachelor's from Rosemont College and a master's in human resources from Widener University. She enjoys golf, tennis, travel, and spending time with her friends. She especially cherishes time with her family and her precious granddaughter, Linda. Welcome to the show. I am so grateful and honored to have you here today with us.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you. I'm so grateful and honored to be with you, Carrie. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00

I love to start with all my guests with their background with Catholicism because I have many different listeners. I have cradle Catholics, I have those reverting back to the faith. I have people who have been involved in yoga and new age practices. So please let us know how your journey with Catholicism began.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So I I guess I would be considered a cradle Catholic. However, I was yesterday I was on a Deacon Jim Thornel's program and he coined it. I love this phrase. He coined it as I was sacramentized but not catechized.

SPEAKER_03

Oh.

SPEAKER_01

I thought that was perfectly put. Uh, because I think that happens to a lot of people who receive our sacraments, but don't really understand what it means to be a member of the Catholic Church. So after confirmation, you go on your merry way and you don't really know and understand the faith that you are a part of, which is such a huge blessing, which I've come to learn. So, you know, I went to occasional masses, Christmas, Easter, and funeral masses, wedding masses, and that was it. I probably hadn't gone to confession for 20, 25 years, didn't really understand the consequences of not having done that and, you know, receiving communion. Uh, so many things I didn't understand about our faith and the beauty of the, you know, the saints and the angels and what the mayor means. I mean, there's just so, so, so many riches that, you know, it's it's a shame more Catholics don't really know and understand what we have to our avail.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely. Well, as someone who did yoga for many years, all of my 20s, all of my 30s, and someone who no longer does yoga, I come across a lot of Christians and Catholics who think yoga is just an exercise. I'm not doing anything wrong. So I'd really love for you to talk about why yoga is dangerous and why it's not compatible with the teachings of the Catholic Church.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So for 20 years, I like to say I straddled both worlds. You know, I was really at that point, maybe four years into it, uh, we sent our girls to Catholic school. So I was starting to learn more about what it means. That's really where I began to become catechized. And it was a slow evolution. But I'm also learning and getting more deeply into the yoga world and the, you know, new age things that go along with it, like the chakras and Reiki. So for me, those two worlds came to a head. And I think for most people, eventually that's gonna happen, right? So, why is it problematic? Because as Catholics and Christians, we follow Jesus, we follow his teachings, we adhere to the church. Jesus tells us, my yoke is easy and my burden is light, but we don't really understand what that yoking means. And in yoga, there's a yoking. That's what the actual word yoga translates to. It's a Sanskrit word, which is an ancient language of India. It's yuaj in Sanskrit, which means to yoke, to unite. But the intention of that yoking and uniting is completely different than a Christian yoking to Jesus or the Holy Spirit or God, the Holy Trinity. In yoga, you're yoking to Hindu deities, specifically Brahman, who's the highest Hindu god. So that yoking while you're following and believing and participating in the Christian life is duplicitous. And, you know, you can't do both. You just can't do both. It's really idolatry at its core. When I had my come to Jesus moment, that's really what he revealed to me. I opened up the Bible to 1 Corinthians chapter 10, therefore, my beloved, avoid idolatry. And I didn't even really understand the idolatry that yoga was until I left and could reflect and did a little bit of research and understood the postures and the mantras and the moves and the philosophies, like the empty-minded stare, the empty-minded meditation, those are all counter to Christian beliefs. And in my book, at the end, I kind of give a side-by-side comparison chart of those two things and how they're so very different, but they're well disguised, they're well veiled. You know, people don't really understand that the universe that's talked about in yoga is not God, or that the divine talked about in yoga is not God. It is not our holy God.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that comparison chart is one of my favorite parts of the book because it just lays it out so beautifully that we cannot pretend it's an exercise and divorce it from the spiritual practice that it is, the Hindu practice that it is. And even Hindus, tell us a little bit about Hindus and what they're saying about yoga being practiced in the West.

SPEAKER_01

Right. So the Hindu, I mean, I start the book out with quotes from very, you know, the Hindu American Foundation and Hinduism today. Those are all really wonderful resources that Hindus follow. And they talk about how yoga is truly Hindu. You could never make it Christian. And they even say practice at your own risk. That's so huge. And in uh 2008, I believe it was, they came up with the Take Back Yoga campaign because yoga became so westernized, so secularized, so watered down. But it doesn't matter because yoga is yoga, its roots will always have the Hindu aspects and philosophies in it. And it gets a little confusing because some yoga classes might do a runner stretch or a forward bend, and those are great stretches that you can do and exercise. But a yoga practice, a yoga class will still have elements of yoga in it. If you do shivasana, corpse pose at the end of the class, you're engaging in a Hindu spiritual position.

SPEAKER_00

Right. And tell us a little bit about some of the Sanskrit words and some of those sequences that again seem like I'm just exercising, but they're actually, you're actually opening yourself up to these Hindu gods and yoking to them.

SPEAKER_01

One of the most common, one of the most popular uh sequences is called Siri Namaskar. And I would begin all of my classes with that move, three to five of them typically, or three to six of them. And many classes integrate this move into it. So Siri, I learned after I left yoga. I never knew while I was in yoga. So Siri is the god of the sun, and namaskar means to worship. So when we did that move, Siri Namaskar, we were actually worshiping the god of the sun. And Hindus around the world begin their day with that move as a way to ensure that we will have continued light. So there's devotion and worship in that move. It's sacred to Hindus. And unfortunately, I led a lot of people into worshiping that God, having known nothing about it. Unfortunately, as teachers, we were taught the Sanskrit words, but we were never taught the translations or what they meant. So there was, you know, the half-truth is still a full lie. I say that in my book. And it's so meaningful for me as a yoga teacher learning all these Hindu things, but not fully learning what they were until I walked away and until I did my research for this book. And that's why I write it because people need to know when they're dabbling in yoga that they're dabbling in another religion's form of worship.

SPEAKER_00

Right. So how did you make your way into yoga having been a practicing Catholic?

SPEAKER_01

Well, that's a really good question because I would say at the time I wasn't really practicing. I was a Catholic peripherally, you know, sacramentalized but not catechized. And so still going to Christmas and Easter masses and not really knowing. But then we had our first child, and we knew we had to give her some kind of spiritual formation. So my husband and I started going to Mass regularly. And then by the grace of God, we ended up sending them to Catholic school. And that's when I began to learn truly what it means to be a Catholic and what it means to be a practicing Catholic. So I didn't really start practicing my Catholic faith until I had already been starting my yoga practice because the minute our daughter was born, that's when I started doing yoga straight away. And the Catholic faith formation came just a few months later. So I was really studying two worlds kind of at the same time.

SPEAKER_00

So you got into yoga and then you became a yoga teacher, correct?

SPEAKER_01

I got into yoga weeks after our daughter was born and started practicing at a local kundalini yoga studio, which is a very dangerous type of yoga. And then uh we joined a larger gym that had a kids' club when our second daughter was born a couple of years later. And my teacher straight away asked if I would join the teacher training. And I thought, why would I do that? I would never teach yoga. I could never teach yoga. And she said, well, just join it. You can deepen your practice. So, you know, I loved yoga and I thought it was the greatest thing. So I did. And then I started teaching straight away.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. And then you eventually got to a point where you had met someone who was practicing Reiki as well, and you were doing, you were praying the rosary, and then something happened one night.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So uh this woman, our daughters had done a dance class together. And so she became a friend, and she was like me. She was going to mass and practicing, you know, doing Bible studies and trying to deepen our Catholic faith at doing yoga. And she had started, I don't know who introduced her to Reiki, but she introduced me to Reiki, encouraged me to take a class, and I did. And to become a Reiki practitioner, there's Reiki level one, Reiki level two, and a Reiki master. And of course, I went all the way and became a master. And so we had been praying the rosary on All Saints Day. And it was a beautiful rosary. It was just she and I, other ladies were supposed to come, but they canceled at the last minute. So that evening I went home and I went to bed. And at three in the morning, our older daughter came to my bedside and said, Mommy, somebody's in my room. So I wake up and I go with her back to her room and lay with her in her bed. And of course, I felt a presence in her room. There was something in her room for sure. I just kept praying, praying, praying hard, hard, hard. Couldn't wait for the light of the day. And eventually it came, went to mass, went to my yoga class. And I did at the end of the class, when everyone does Shivasana, the final pose, corpse pose, deep relaxation, I did Reiki on everyone and her. When I did it on her, a dark cloud, like a dark shadow, left her body and floated up and out of the room. And I knew it was something ominous and sinister. And so after class, I wasn't sure whether I was going to tell her what I saw, but we started chatting about the rosary the night before. And I told her what happened with my daughter. And then she had informed me she had been um pinned to the bed. She was, you know, couldn't breathe. She couldn't move. And so she had some pretty dark stuff happen to her that evening as well. So yeah, I mean, yoga, people don't understand until something happens that they are dabbling in a spirituality that is not of God. And I'm in the book, I share so many stories of people who have been oppressed or possessed, which is even more dangerous and more scary. And, you know, exorcists say that practice of yoga keeps them very busy. You know, there's a lot of exorcisms that need to be done as a result of a yoga practice. And people don't know. So, you know, this book hopefully is a fair warning for people to understand the inherent dangers that lie behind that yoga veil.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. And it is a veil because it can seemingly start as something as simple as you hurt your back and your doctor says, Go practice yoga. There's even Reiki that's done in hospitals. And then that leads to the gateway of the new age, as you talk about in your book too. And I've been smiling as you've been talking a lot because I did, as I mentioned, practiced yoga for many, many, many years. And I found yoga when I was depressed and anxious. Also Eastern meditation methods, and they all go together. And then soon after that, became a Reiki practitioner. But what I found was that I would go to these yoga retreats, several yoga retreats, and you'd have these high highs, and then I would come back and just be in the lowest of lows. And having not been in that world for so long now, and being a Christian and being a Catholic two years now. There's just a peace that, yes, God does not promise that we won't have crosses. He does not promise an easy life. But with those crosses, that underlying current of peace has just been there. And I remember that when I had become Christian and had this dream with my husband and Jesus appeared to us, I was still practicing yoga for about six months after that. But I got to a point where I would go to the yoga class, and literally a minute after I was laying down to start the class, I would think, is this almost over? I don't really like this. And I feel like now the Holy Spirit was sanctifying me.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But it isn't always that easy. It isn't always so easy to give that up. So I'm wondering what you would say to somebody who they have this information. They know that it's not compatible, that they're just really, for lack of a better word, addicted to yoga.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I talk about the allure and the addiction of yoga in my book because I think it's it's exactly how the devil wants to seduce us, right? He's not going to make his dark world look unattractive and unbright. He's going to make it look attractive and bright, which is why we get sucked in. And yeah, it's so unfortunate, as you mentioned, that medical practitioners and other practitioners so readily turn to yoga as if it's going to cure all, whether it's a physical ailment, a mental ailment, a spiritual ailment, as if it has the power, as if it has more power than God, which to me is, you know, such a ridiculous notion. God is in control of everything. When I was writing the book, I presented my manuscript to someone. He's an editor, and I thought he would have some good information for me. And we reviewed it in above an adoration chapel at one of the parishes that I live nearby. I do adoration there on a weekly basis. And he said to me that his wife was having difficulty with some family members, and she turned to yoga for peace. And I said, Why isn't she going to the tabernacle? Why isn't she going to Jesus for peace? Right. And but that's what people do. They think that they're going to find their peace in yoga, whether it's physically, mentally, or spiritually, as I mentioned, when in fact we have access to God in such a real and tangible and personal and close way. We just don't really understand it or know it. And we're missing out. You know, when we don't avail ourselves to what he wants to give us and be for us and do for us, we really, really, really miss out. And I missed out for 20 years, right? And you missed out for that, well, that part of time. But, you know, God bless you for recognizing that the Holy Spirit was calling you because a lot of people will have those kinds of feelings, like you mentioned, like, when is this going to be over? I don't really like this anyway. But I think the culture kind of says, well, yoga's so great. You know, people say, well, you're going to find everything you need to find in yoga. That was me. I mean, I believe that. I would, I always say I was like a walking, talking billboard for yoga. I just thought it was the greatest panacea elixir that the world could ever give. And how misguided I was.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing with the yoga world and the new age world is there is such a focus on self and filling up yourself and self-self-self, whereas Christ in Christianity, the message is the opposite. So, what was your experience in that world with the emphasis on self and how what we have now is such a treasure?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Compared to that.

SPEAKER_01

It's so true. So everything was about yourself. You, you know, make yourself feel good, clear yourself, you know, empty yourself. I had no idea what that emptying really was doing or meant. Um, you know, now all I ever want to do is fill myself with God because I'm nothing without him. It's like, you know, it's like an empty glove. You put the glove on and you can move it. And without, you know, your hand in that glove, you know, and God is that hand for us. He animates us and moves us. So that was one thing, you know, it was always an emptying of the self, of finding an absent-minded stare. So counter to the beauty of our Christian faith.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely. That was something that hit me really hard. If when I think about who I was back in those days, and just how the Lord has just blessed me in so many ways and has really made me less self reliant and a lot more reliant on him.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. One of my favorite novenas uh is the Jesus, I surrender myself to you, take care of everything. Right. It's Father Delinda Rotolo's uh novena, the surrender novena. It's it's so powerful. And just by repeating that all the time, to surrender ourselves to God, He takes care of everything. And guess what? Way, way, way better than we ever could, right? So when we let Him, you know, guide our lives. And I think about me with this book, oh, there would be no way I could have written this book without the Holy Spirit prompting me, leading me, guiding me, you know, bringing the people at the right time, the right places, finding the research that I found. Because honestly, a lot of it was like a needle in a haystack, not very easily or readily available. But God was so good, good, good to me. And that's just an illustration of how life is when we live it in union with Him.

SPEAKER_00

Amen. Well, you mentioned Kundalini Yoga, which I also dabbled in as well. And you mentioned it was dangerous. Talk a little bit more about that.

SPEAKER_01

So Kundalini Yoga is a type of yoga. There's hundreds of types of yoga, right? As you know, uh kundalini is one of them, and it's a unique practice. It's very dangerous. So the goal of kundalini uh in the one of the uh areas that I got involved in was the chakras. And so there's a belief, a Hindu belief, that there are seven chakras or energy wheels in your body. And the bottom one is at the base of your spine, it goes down your legs and connects you to the earth, which seems good, right? It seems like a, you know, something that would be good. But at the base of your spine lies a serpent, and this serpent is the snake, right? And so the goal of kundalini is to release and awaken this serpent energy so that it can release out of the crown of your head. It's extraordinarily dangerous spiritually, it's extraordinarily dangerous physically, but we know who the snake is, right? We know what the snake is. One of the uh gurus who brought yoga to the United States at the 1893 World Fair in Chicago was Swami Vivekananda, and he was doing kundalini yoga, he practiced kundalini, and he had it's called a kundalini rising or a kundalini awakening, and he had this, and he was in his, I believe, early or mid-30s, and it eventually had a brain aneurysm and he died. He was in good health, but so it's very dangerous. Uh, Carl Jung has talked about it. He used to do kundalini, and then he, you know, created a warning about doing it, that it could create dangers that we couldn't even imagine in our wildest dreams. And there's something called the spiritual emergence network, which also was created for people who doing kundalini yoga find themselves in a spiritual crisis and they need help. And this is a resource that that can find them help for that kind of an awakening because it is very dangerous. There's a woman in my book that I speak of who she felt like this snake was coming out of her head and it was rocking her back and forth. I mean, it's physical, it's real, it manifests itself in real ways. So, you know, I think sometimes we think if we don't actually see things or experience them, they're not true. But we need to look to these people and these stories and trust that they are true instead of subjecting ourselves to some very, very dangerous practices like kundalini yoga.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And what about ujai breath?

SPEAKER_01

I remember that one. I I cringe at that. And so in my research, you know, as instructors, that we were always taught unjay breath how to do it, what it means, you know, how to practice it. And we would literally have to do it time and again to make this sound right. So, unjayi breath, as you know, I was told as a teacher that it was called Victorious Breath. And it was supposed to sound like the waves crashing on the ocean. Now I live near the Jersey Shore. I went to the Jersey Shore as a kid, you know, every summer and love the ocean. I love the sound of the ocean. I love the smell of the ocean. So that was just such a beautiful, serene image for me, right? The sound of the ocean. And so every single class that I taught, we did unjay breath, really from beginning to end. So what I've learned is that unjay is actually a serpent breath, right? And it is a snake breath. And you know, as someone who did it, I would never illustrate it or exhibit it for a new lipstick because no, but you literally sound like, now that I look back, it's not the waves crashing on the ocean. You sound like a hissing snake. And so one of the things that I discovered in my research was a yoga guru said that this is a very dangerous breath and it should not be practiced regularly in class. But guess what? In the West, it's practiced all the time. You did it in your class, I did it in my class, I did it in all of my teacher trainings. Every single yoga class that I ever went to integrated Unjayi breath. And it's extraordinarily dangerous. People think, oh, breathing, what could be wrong with breathing? Well, there's forms and this breath has deep meaning behind it and spiritual dangers associated with it too.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, there's another one, too, I believe it's called Lion's Breath. And I remember never wanting to do that because the yoga teacher would say, bug your eyes, stick your tongue out, forcefully exhale. And I'm thinking, why are we doing this?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. Right. It yeah, it's very odd, and it feels really strange to do it. And it is strange. Lion's breath is popular. The other one is breath of fire. You know, it seems like you're stoking your belly to your spine and you're breathing rapidly, and it's getting your heart rate up, and it seems like it's a good thing. But again, there's real dangers behind breath of fire. So even the breathing in yoga is dangerous.

SPEAKER_00

Mm-hmm. And even there have been, I know you talk in your book about people who've gotten injured. Like a lot of people say, oh, yoga is really great for your body, but actually it might not be.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. And I was a recipient of some injuries, definitely in yoga. I was twisted so hard in a class that I the instructor twisted my spine so hard that he broke a rib. And you know, I knew I was uncomfortable. I have a pretty high tolerance for pain. So in the middle of the night, I was having trouble breathing. I said to my husband, I think I'm having a heart attack. So he called 911. The ambulance came, took me to the hospital, only to find that it wasn't my heart, but that I had broken a rib. And so, um, yeah, I guess when I settled down at night and fell asleep, that's when I really noticed the pain. That was one thing. In my Ashtanga t-shirt training, we were practicing adjustments, like how to, you know, help people get deeper into a pose or more properly aligned in a pose. And the gal who adjusted me during a back bend lifted my spine in the wrong way. And um, I still suffer from that. Uh, we did a lot of shoulder stands in my classes. And, you know, I still have like upper neck issues, and I was even a stickler for every little alignment technique I was taught as an instructor to make sure that I taught my students those things, but it was still, you know, I still exposed myself to a great danger. Uh, so those are just some of the things that I experienced. There's much more, you know, my physical body, like my ankle. I have problems with my ankle and my wrists. And I believe it's the New York Times and other outlets have come out with studies that say, yeah, the dangers of yoga are real. People suffer from strokes as a result of them, other major things that can physically happen to our bodies that, you know, it's not the panacea that everybody thinks. You know, all real dangers.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. What about the chakras? For people who don't know about the chakras and opening the chakras and what that does enlighten us.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's funny, you know, people say, Oh, I have to go to wherever to open my chakras, right? It's like such a thing. But people don't even really know or understand what they're talking about or what they're saying. I think because there's so much information in our world, and we get surface and we think we know it. But the chakras are, they come from Hindu tradition, and there are seven, as I mentioned earlier. And the thing about the chakras is they are aligned with spaces in your body, starting at the base of your spine all the way up to the crown of your head. There's seven of them. So seven to right, biblically, we believe it's a holy number, right? They correlate to the colors of the rainbow. So you think, well, God made the rainbow, so there has to be truth in them. They correlate to elements, so maybe water, earth, fire, you know, those things. So God made those things too, right? So I took a course, it was like a college course on the chakras, and we used Anadea Judas' book called Wheels of Life. And we learned all about these things with the chakras and how to use them and how to open up your heart and open up your, you know, mind and your throat, the heart to love better, the throat to communicate better, the third eye, which is, you know, between your eyebrows on your forehead to think better and to receive better. Um, but they're not real. And I learned this when I was writing my book. They're also tied to Hindu deities. So I go back to that a half truth is still a full lie. And so, you know, all of these things that I was taught as a teacher were never fully revealed. And that's what you gotta love about the Catholic Church. Everything is fully revealed. There's no secrets, there's no hidden anything, you know. Yeah. So dangerous for sure.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, my husband has a Hindu background. He was raised in a Hindu household, and so he would always talk about yoga and about how it was designed for young boys, you know, in basically pajamas. There was no form-fitting yoga clothing. It was a spiritual practice. So he saw the deception in it a lot as well. And as part of our conversion after we converted, we realized we needed a little bit of deliverance from our involvement in these types of things. And we met a really wonderful exorcist priest, and he did a beautiful prayer for both of us to close all the chakras and just lay all that to rest and ask Jesus to come with his precious blood and cleanse those areas that have been open. Because when you do open yourself up to these Hindu deities, all kinds of things can come through.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So true and so scary. And praise God that you did that because that's a great thing for all of your listeners to do, right? Anyone who's dabbled in and will will be willing to turn from yoga. Yeah, get yourself cleansed, whether it's through an exorcist, which I know they're few and far between. So you were very blessed to have that access and exposure and availability. But if you can't, even a priest, you know, through confession and through deliverance prayers, they can also get rid of some of that spiritual baggage from the openings that happen through yoga and other new age practices. It's so, so important. You know, some people have asked me why do I think I was so protected? You know, why, why wasn't I possessed and thank God I wasn't? But I think it was because I was deeply straddling the Catholic world at the time. You know, I was going to daily mass, I was going among the confessions, you know, I was practicing my faith. I was doing Bible studies, I was praying the rosary daily. So I was, God, I was so, so, so protected. But people who aren't as practicing, you know, had could be exposed to much deeper and worse things. But confession is extraordinarily powerful. I talk about this in the book that there's an exorcist who said one confession equals a hundred exorcisms. And that's really powerful. Because when we're in the confessional, when we're in the sacrament of confession, we may see the priest, but it's actually Jesus' hand who blesses us. And we don't see it, but that's how the priest gets his power from Jesus. He's acting in persona Christe, which means in the person of Christ. So yeah, when we have access to Jesus like that and through the Eucharist, the power is real.

SPEAKER_00

Amen. Amen. I'm thinking about the word om and how people people don't even know what that means. And you go to a yoga class and you're oming.

SPEAKER_01

Linda, what does ohm mean? Well, again, in you know, in our teacher trainings, we were told om really is just a vibrational sound. It's just an energy, it has no meaning behind it, but it has three syllables. That was ingrained in us. And the three syllables were A-U-M. And it was never just an O M sound, but an A-U-M sound. And so you would, you know, say that word long, you know, over a course of what, 10 seconds, 20 seconds, whatever it is, uh, chant it, hum it, whatever you want to say. And it sounds captivating, it sounds alluring, right? So you think, okay, well, they told us it's nothing, so it's nothing. But in my research for the book, I found that om, well, first of all, the A-U-M sounds that we were making, A and U M represent their trinity of gods, which is Brahman, Shiva, and Vishnu. Those are three main Hindu gods, the Trinity of Gods. And that's what the A-U-M means from Sanskrit. So, and Om is the highest prayer for a Hindu. I'm sure your husband would, you know, be able to attest to this, but anything holy or sacred would begin and end with an um, which is also why many yoga classes start and end with an um. Not all. And just because an um isn't said doesn't mean that it's that that spiritual things aren't going on because they certainly are, but it it's a high, high prayer for Hindus. And yeah, when the meaning is lost. People think, oh, I'm just singing a song, like just singing a little word that has no meaning, but they're praying, they are praying. Or they might think, oh my is bringing me peace. Yeah, om is bringing me peace, or I feel good, or maybe I'm sitting in a yoga class where everybody's saying, Ohm, but I'm not. Well, you're there and you have exposed yourself to the power of the prayer and the spirits behind these deities, right? They come, they're they're being called on, and they are showing up. And therein lies the danger and the exposure that people just don't know because they don't see.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, you have uh part of your book that talks about different teachers. And I think in our world today, whether people are exploring faith, maybe they're not Christian yet, and maybe they are dabbling in the new age, and they really want a teacher, they want to learn from somebody. And unfortunately, when you look at a lot of yoga teachers, there's there's actually quite a few scandals. And there's you mention in your book some documentaries. And I know for me, finding Jesus Christ as my spiritual teacher. I mean, the the greatest treasure. Becoming Catholic is has been the best thing that's ever happened to me. What would you say about these teachers that people have followed through yoga, through new age, and how that's different from Jesus?

SPEAKER_01

Oh judgment, right? So there was one uh teacher, one of the types of yoga that I was certified to teach called Ashtanga yoga. The founder of that, the creator of it was Patavi Joyce. Patavi Joyce lived in India, but he would travel to the US fairly regularly. And I happened to go to a workshop that he did in New York City. It was in a huge warehouse, and our yoga mat, it was so tightly packed, our yoga mats were touching each other. We had no, we had no uh extra room other than our mat to practice. So we did this Ashtanga yoga, which was a physical workout, and um people, his grandsons and granddaughters, and you know, the whole his entourage came around and adjusted people throughout the practice. And at the end of the practice, people lined up around this whole huge warehouse. The line went out the door, and they put him on like a little stage in a chair, and people lined up to literally kiss his feet. And I was stunned because it was such an act of reverence. And then again, in the research for the book, I learned that he was worshipped around the world. People just idolized him, and they, you know, in their home altars would have pictures of them. Like I was sitting here looking at my computer, but I have the sacred heart and the immaculate heart, right? I have Jesus, I have Saint Joseph, I have Saint Peter, I mean, I have them all. And um, you know, so they had a picture of him as if as a way to just idolize him. And then it came out years later that during adjustments, which is as you know, it's physically close, physically touching in, you know, tight, he was found to have been sexually harassing his constituents. And so, you know, sadly he fell from grace. I mean, I talk about many of these gurus who fell from grace because of the things that they did. That's one example. I also talk about bikram, which is a type of yoga, uh hot yoga, right? Hot yoga, right? Bhikram Chaudray. He's had a sequence of 26 poses, and it was done in a room of like 104 degrees. And on an interview, he said that yoga is addictive. It's worse than cocaine. You can't get rid of it. And then he also called himself the most spiritual person in the world, but he too, he's a fugitive, right? There's a warrant for his arrest. He has not come back to this country. He owes millions of millions of dollars to those that he has assaulted. Yeah, it's very scary how people think that the peace, love, and joy that you get in yoga is not really what it seems to be.

SPEAKER_00

No, it's not rooted in truth, beauty, and goodness.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And it makes me think of, you know, God humbles the exalted and exalts the humble. And I had I did not meet very many humble yoga teachers in my day. I'm maybe some exist, but yeah, it's um it's quite a stark contrast from the teachings of Jesus.

SPEAKER_01

Such a stark contrast. And so one of the things I talk about too in the beginning of that chapter on the teachers is what a guru is, right? A guru is like a highly elevated teacher, and gurus create disciples. Disciples follow or imitate their teacher. But that's what we as Christians should do with Jesus, right? We should become followers, we become his disciples, and which means that we should follow and imitate him. And it's it's so different, right? From the the not so humble yoga teachers to our humble Lord and Savior.

SPEAKER_00

Uh, we're so blessed. And we have the examples of the saints, too. I mean, talk about humility, talk about obeying God and sacrificing, taking up their crosses. I mean, I just I learn about new saints every day, and I'm I'm blown away at how blessed we are.

SPEAKER_01

We are so blessed and the witnesses that they bear for us, you know, the things that we can learn from them. Many of them were very, you know, very bad sinners, right? Right. They repented and turned. They they didn't always all start out holy and perfect, right? They allowed God to form them, and that's what we are called to do. But you're right, I love the stories of the saints. They're just every day I'm learning about a new saint. We have so many.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, and it's beautiful to get to visit their tombs if anyone's been able to do that, or their relics, which was a whole new thing for me when I became a Catholic. But I love it. I love it so much. Well, and I know that the Catholic Church does not officially have a stance on yoga, but they have a document on Reiki and the New Age. And I will link that in the show notes. But Linda, could you tell us a little bit about that document? Because you mentioned it in your book as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so the USCCB came out with a statement on Reiki. I believe that was 2009. So that's an important one. Yep, Reiki is not to be practiced, it's viewed as turning away from God to other alternatives, right? And so, and that alternative is of the equaled. And I talk a lot in my book about what is Reiki. And there's so many stories of travesties that have happened as a result of people turning to Reiki instead of God. So that's that's Reiki. And then the USCCB with the the Bear of Water and Light. I think that that's the other document that you're referring to, which came out in these dates are, I think maybe 2003. But anyway, it will be on the document. And it doesn't say no to yoga, but it says be careful of new age spirituality. And I'm I'm probably misquoting it, but that we have to be prudent and we have to discern, right? And so praise God as you were discerning, you know, you knew straight away. Other people I know go to one yoga class and they say I could never go back. And I say you need to get down on your knees and genuflect and thank God that you had such a radar, you know, such an internal guide to know that this is not right, because many of us, you know, we're a little more open and a little more misguided. So that document talks a lot about that and some of the new age modalities that creep in and the and the falsehoods behind them.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's a great document. I have not read it word for word, but the exorcist priest that my husband and I worked with, he recommended it. So that's one that I will put in the show notes for everybody to take a look at. And as we're talking, Linda, I wanted to go back about Reiki and how, you know, the devil likes to take what Jesus created and make a counterfeit. So I'd love for you to talk a little bit about how Jesus healed and how Reiki kind of distorts that healing.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So when I was being trained to be a Reiki practitioner, we were told that this healing comes from light, comes from Reiki guides, from the earth.

SPEAKER_00

I heard that one too. This is earth energy and divine energy, and they're they're going.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And you know, and so one of the times that I had Reiki done on me, I said to my Reiki teacher, uh, how did you know where in my body I was experiencing pain? And she said, Oh, the Reiki guides know what to do. Well, you know, the Reiki guides appear like they're wonderful and they're helping you, but give them time. You know, we'll show their true faces. Um, yeah. So Reiki is presented as this wonderful, natural healing method. But behind it in my book, I talk about a woman who had this huge experience with Reiki, and she went back to the Reiki master, and the Reiki master said, Oh, yeah, I saw the founder of uh Reiki sitting in the corner. Um, he appeared as Satan. Because Reiki does not come from God, it comes from another source, and that other source is not of God. So it's not a good source, right? Not even worth naming, but that source is. And so it's presented as this wonderful healing method. The founder who created Reiki was fascinated with Jesus and all of his healings that he could do. So yeah, of course he was. Um, so in my book, I list the the ways he tried to misconstrue all of the things that Jesus did, right? Like the laying of the hands, the healing from a distance, you know, the breathing over someone. Those are things that are done in Reiki. But if it doesn't come from God, it's coming from something much worse. And Reiki does come from something much much worse. Please avoid Reiki at all times. If you've ever had it done on you in a yoga class, right, for your listeners, go to that priest, ask for the deliverance prayers because you have opened yourself up years ago. I think about this when I was teaching yoga. My mother-in-law was in the hospital and she said, Oh, you know, someone came around to your point earlier about it's done in hospitals. Someone came around and said, Oh, can I do Reiki on you? It's just a little healing, you know, natural healing method. So she asked me what I thought. And at the time I was doing Reiki and I was doing yoga, and I said, Yeah, it's perfectly fine. So I led her to be exposed to that. But it, yeah, stay away from Reiki at all costs.

SPEAKER_00

Amen. I'm curious, Linda. Did you ever get involved in astrology or talking to energy readings or psychics or anything like that during this stint in the new age?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's a great question because I did not. Now, mind you, as a kid, I did. I loved astrology when I was in my teens. You know, I turned to the newspaper in the days when there actually was a newspaper, and I'd read my horoscope straight away. And I was so fascinated with the zodiac and the, you know, the sun and all that alignment. And so I did have an astrology chart done, which is supposed to say, oh, this is what your personality is, this is what your life is going to be, you know, all that nonsense. But that was even before I was 20 years old. So I was a kid when I was doing that. Same thing with um, you know, psychics, card reading. I mean, I did card readings. I was involved in that in high school. So again, teen years, but um, probably maybe when I was 20, I would say I stopped all of that and did not redo that as a yogi. That those years I was in my 30s by the time I started doing yoga.

SPEAKER_00

Astrology is huge in Hinduism. When my husband and I got married, we had an astrology chart done about when we should get married and all of this and that. And that was a big part of my journey as well, and something that I stay far, far away from. And you will hear people make their identity into their astrology sign. Like, I'm a cancer, I'm a Taurus, and they live their life based on what's happening is Mercury in retrograde. I can't sign this contract. I mean, it's ridiculous when you think about it and how simple our faith is and how beautiful and how Jesus gave us the most beautiful, beautiful practices. So we've been talking so much about all of the practices not to be involved in and not to participate in. So I would love to know how the Lord has sanctified you in this process and what your life looks like now as someone who has renounced this, someone who is really deeply involved in her faith. Um, maybe you could talk about the La Gatus Institute that you're a part of because that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So I, you know, when you're under the facade of the yoga piece that people think is peaceful, and then you walk away from it, and then you've experienced the true peace of God. It's it's like you can't even believe the difference, right? I don't I wouldn't even really know how to describe it, except that when you know, you know. Yeah, it's an illusion of that peace. So God has been really wonderful, brought me to so many different organizations, so many different practices. Like I run a prayer cynical to Our Lady Mary, guardian of the faith, and we start with Lexia Divina and the Rosary. And it's beautiful just to share how the scripture, how scripture touches each one of us and what it means to us and how we live it in our life and how the Lord is ever present and ever-changing, right? Because you can read the same scripture time and again, and something else resonates with you newly. Uh so the goddess is also a great organization. I happen to be the president right now of our local chapter, and it's um a way to practice your faith. We start with the rosary and we start with confession and we have mass and then we have a Catholic speaker. And there, you know, there's so many organizations out there as Catholics that we can join to grow our faith and share community, right? And that's such a beautiful thing to be with people who share your beliefs because in the secular world, you know, sometimes let's face it, we're we're fish swimming upstream, right? Yes. Yeah, we are chastised, we are whatever and looked down upon, but we also know that we're deeper blessed. And God, God is behind us, and we know he prevails in the end.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, he does. Yes, he does. I love when you mention in your book about Saint Claire and the quote that you have in there about her. And I always love to ask my guests about saints that have impacted them. So I don't know if you want to speak about her or any other saints that were with you during this transition.

SPEAKER_01

Well, you know, when you say that we can go to the tombs of saints, right? I've been to many tombs of many saints, including St. Claire of Assisi, right? She's just a beautiful saint, Saint Francis of Assisi. And I think we don't recognize, but there are many female and male saints that, you know, lifted each other up and supported each other. And that's such a beautiful thing. I'll say, you know, when I was in high school, I did a summer in Spain. I studied abroad at the University of Salamanca, and we did a little trip to Avila. And at the time we visited St. Teresa of Avila, where she, you know, her convent. And I didn't really know of her. I mean, certainly I'd heard of St. Teresa of Avila, but I didn't really know much about her. And I I feel like she must have grabbed me even when I was just a teenager and been following me and just really hoping to guide me because I was I was a lost cause there for a long time. But I love her spirituality. As a matter of fact, you know, in my early days of yoga, I was so intrigued by some new agers, one in particular by the name of Carolyn Meese, she wrote a book and she took the teachings of Saint Teresa of Avila and transformed them into new age misnomers, right? And so side by side, but when you read St. Teresa of Avila's work, it's so beautiful and so profound and so true and so authentic because you know it's based on God. And so I I would have to say she was one of my major saints through all of this coming out of um I, you know, Jeff Cavins talks about having a posse of saints, which I talk about in my book. I love the concept because I can't just have one, you know. So of course I picked seven, but my list keeps getting longer. Yeah, my list keeps getting longer and longer and longer. And there's just so many beloved saints to me that I I couldn't just pick one right one. Like right now, I'm wearing a bracelet of Saint Benedict, and of course I have my miraculous medal on, and you know, I I just and I'm looking at a bunch of saints on my desk.

SPEAKER_00

Same. I have I have Saint Rita right here. She's one of mine. I'm just smiling so much because you're mentioning this book by Carolyn Mace. And I was reading that book right before Jesus appeared to me. This is just confirmation for me that she was with me too.

SPEAKER_03

Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

During that huge turning point in my life. And I remember reading that book, and something didn't sit well with me with it. I was like, this just doesn't seem right. And then at that time, I didn't know anything about Catholicism. But I'm really grateful you shared that. Can you share the quote from your book from St. Clair? Because I think it is so valuable. And I I can't think of it off the top of my head, but I just loved it.

SPEAKER_01

You knew that's so funny. Um, so I know I have so, so many St. Clair Vasisi pointing out, we become what we love, and who we love shapes what we become.

SPEAKER_00

So beautiful. I would love to know too. I asked my guests, every guest, this question. So my ministry is called Living Whole and Holy, and I would love to know what it means to you to live whole and holy.

SPEAKER_01

Well, to be whole is to fill myself with God, right? I'm nothing without Him. So to live whole is to fill myself with God every single day in every way that I can. And to live holy is to strive. Listen, I fall all the time. You know, I make mistakes, which is why I go to frequent confession. But to live holy is to just try to reach for his hand when I fall down and know that he is there for me when I suffer, just place my sufferings at the foot of his cross or on the altar and that he will fix whatever it is for me. So that would be to live holy, to just rely on our Lord to take care of everything.

SPEAKER_00

Beautiful. Well, Linda, your book is brilliant. You are brilliant. I want everybody I know to read this book. It was so healing for me to read it, actually, because I had been wanting to do an episode about yoga for so long. But who better to be on and talk about your journey than you? So I'm so grateful for you for writing this book and that God put it in your heart to write this book, that you had the courage to put this book out here in the world. And yeah, just thank you for saying yes to that and and just shedding so much light on a topic that is controversial.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, it is. It really is. So thank you for those incredibly kind words. That's what keeps me going, knowing that this is all having an impact and hopefully turning souls away from yoga and to our Lord. That's all I ask, really. And I can't do it without the Holy Spirit. And he's been an incredible guide for me the whole way. So thank you for having me and thank you for sending this message out there too, because it is an important one. It is a controversial one. A lot of times people are very offended when they first hear about it. I was too. I was offended, too. I would turn off the radio or turn off whatever. But I just, you know, I hope and pray that even if they are offended, that people will come back and listen again and again and that the Lord convicts them in the time that they're meant to be convicted.

SPEAKER_00

Amen. Would you like to close us out in prayer?

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. I would be honored to in the name of the Father and of the Son and the Holy Spirit, amen. Dear Jesus, we know that you are Lord of all, and we know that you wait so patiently for us. May we learn to turn to you first and foremost, and no one and nothing else. May we know that you are the lover of our hearts. You want to captivate us, you want to fill us with yourself, help us to cooperate, help us to receive your grace, help us to receive your love, help us to be your lights in this world. And everything that we are and we do is through and in you. Amen.

SPEAKER_00

Amen. Father and the son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Thank you so much, Linda. Thank you, Carrie. God bless you. God bless you. Before we wrap up today's episode, I realized after we finished recording that I forgot to ask Linda to share where you can connect with her. If you'd like to learn more about Linda, connect with her, or pick up a copy of her book, Yoga Unveiled, you'll find all of her information linked in today's show notes. I'll also include the church documents we mentioned throughout the conversation if you'd like to explore this topic more deeply. And before we go, I just want to leave you with one final thought. If today's conversation challenged you or raised questions, my prayer is that it ultimately draws you closer to Jesus Christ. Both Linda and I spent years sincerely searching for peace. We share our stories because we want others to discover what we discovered. That true peace is found in Jesus Christ. Jesus isn't waiting to condemn you, he's inviting you into a deeper relationship with him. No matter where you've been or what your story looks like, God's mercy is greater than your past. He delights in drawing his children back to himself, and his invitation is always the same. Come to me. If this episode encouraged you, I'd love for you to share it with someone who may be searching for the same peace that Linda and I were searching for. And if the Living Whole and Holy podcast has blessed you, please leave a rating and written review. That's one of the best ways you can help others discover it. Thank you so much for spending time with us today. Until next time, remember that Living Whole and Holy begins by rooting your life and your identity in Christ first. He alone is our peace, our freedom, and our hope. God bless you, and I'll see you next week. Thanks so much for tuning in to the Living Whole and Holy podcast. If you're ready to dive deeper into life coaching from a Catholic perspective, I have a few spots available for one-on-one coaching. This is an amazing opportunity for you to work with someone who will empower you and support you to dream again with God, find more alignment, peace, and confidence in your life, and be the greatest version of who God is calling you to be. I would be so honored to support you on this journey. Send me a DM on Instagram at Living Whole and Holy for a free one-on-one call to learn more. If this episode blessed you, please subscribe, leave a review, and share with a friend. And remember, instead of doing what makes you happy, do what makes you holy.

SPEAKER_02

Until next time, God bless.