Are celebrities hurting the vegan movement?

What role should celebrity culture have when it comes to veganism? From influencers becoming ‘ex-vegans’ for engagement, to celebrities backtracking on their vegan claims, the conversation around veganism is often diminished when it becomes absorbed within the fickle nature of fame and online content cycles. 

In today’s episode, I explore the positives and negatives with using celebrity endorsements to add legitimacy to veganism. 

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Transcript

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Celebrities can undeniably have a significant impact on how people perceive different issues, veganism included. But how much value should we as vegans place on celebrity endorsements of veganism? And what does this mean for when celebrities announce that they're no longer vegan? This is the Disclosure Podcast. Welcome to the Disclosure Podcast. If you enjoy this episode and the work that I'm doing here, then please consider checking out my sub stack where I post regular articles. You can also support my work by becoming a paid member of my sub stack through which you will also gain access to weekly articles or by making a donation through my website. Links for everything can be found in this episode's show notes. For those of you who do support my work, thank you so much. I am incredibly grateful and appreciate it very much. Leaving a review for this podcast is also really helpful and encourages more people to listen to it. I hope you find this episode interesting and informative, and thank you for listening. So let's talk about celebrities. And I think one of the best places to start is to probably discuss a little bit about how the role of celebrity has changed. Celebrities in decades gone by were often movie stars, musicians, people who had reached sort of the pinnacle in their respective field, and as a consequence, were bringing in enrichment and entertainment and joy into people's lives through the varying mediums they were engaging in. Maybe sometimes they were celebrities because of an invention or because of a scientific discovery or whatever it may be. But these were people who'd reached public notoriety mostly for doing positive things that provided enrichment. And as a consequence, people looked up to them because they aspired to have the success that they'd had. They aspired to reach the pinnacle of their respective career aspirations. And celebrities were role models that could look up to because they had reached those peaks themselves. The perception that we have of celebrities has undeniably changed. There was a time, I believe, where celebrities probably carried more weight than they do now, but I'm not sure how much weight celebrities necessarily carry to the everyday person anymore. And social media is a big reason why that perception has changed. It's kind of this... irony in a way where we became more connected to celebrities. And as a consequence, we started to view them with less, I don't know what the word would be, appreciation, not necessarily less appreciation because we still appreciated their art, let's say, but with less awe, perhaps, would be a good way of framing it. Celebrities have often existed outside of the everyday society. They have existed outside of sort of the world that we're used to. And before, I think that that created this sort of idea of them being automatically aspirational and inspirational because they had sort of transcended beyond the world that we exist within, let's say. And I think historically that might have added credibility to the things they said and believed. But now I think the inverse is true. And we view them as being out of touch, disconnected, detached, lacking understanding about reality. the trials and tribulations of everyday society and what we as regular ordinary people have to endure and the consequences of the world around us and what it means to exist in those consequences, we now view the fact that celebrities exist outside of the regular society as a reason to not really value or view their opinions and views with much credibility or care. And social media has been a big part of that because that connection to celebrities has allowed them to do things which has certainly raised some eyebrows. And one of the best examples of this was during the pandemic when a collection of celebrities spearheaded by the actress Gal Gadot has decided to sing a cover of Imagine by John Lennon. And it was the most cringe-inducing thing that you could ever see. And it was so tone deaf. And it just really spoke to how detached these people were from the everyday experiences of people during that time. The idea that celebrities were going to unify us all by singing this song by John Lennon. And it was going to bring us together and kind of reinforce that we're all in this together. But these people are living in their mansions and have everything very comfortable for them. It just really rubbed us all up the wrong way, as well as being super cringy. And I remember during the pandemic, there was this video, I think, of Madonna singing. talking about how COVID was the great equalizer.

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That's the thing about COVID-19, it doesn't care about how rich you are. It's the great equalizer and what's terrible about it is what's great about it.

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And you just thought, wow, this is... This is deluded. The idea that because we're all in a pandemic, that means we're all experiencing the pandemic the same. That it means that the risk of the pandemic is equal for all of us because we are all in it. It's just so absurd that you can't help but look at these people and think, you've lost the grounded connection that you need to be able to actually meaningfully engage with with your fans, let alone people who aren't your fans. You've become so distant from the realities of the world that you've become so disconnected and as a consequence, if we widen that out, how can people really engage with what these people are saying and really care about the views and values they have when they clearly are so disconnected? And I think social media has really reinforced that and the pandemic in particular sort of really hammered that point home. And obviously the right have really weaponized that sentiment in such ways to try and diminish sort of environmental measures because obviously celebrities come out and talk about the environment like Leonardo DiCaprio, let's say, and it's very easy to point the finger at these people and say, well, hang on a minute, you have a private jet and you have a yacht. And if you really cared about the environment, you wouldn't be doing these things. What's interesting about that is obviously there's truth to that, but this sort of label of hypocrite that we like to thrust onto celebrities is a little bit self-defeating because just because a celebrity may engage in certain things doesn't disqualify the view that they have. And what I mean by that is Leonardo DiCaprio could probably do a lot more for the environment than he does. But that doesn't mean that when he says we're in a climate crisis, he's incorrect. But because of the way that we view our relationship with celebrities and because of the way we view our relationship with the idea of hypocrisy, the easiest thing to do is hear Leonardo DiCaprio say something about the climate crisis and go, oh, but you do this. But the fact that he does that doesn't invalidate the message of what he's saying. It just potentially means that he should also be looking more at himself and what he can do differently. And that's part of the problem with how we weaponize celebrity culture against the celebrities themselves is sometimes they'll be talking about things that are important. Sometimes celebrities will talk about these things and then we kind of ignore them because they're a celebrity or because they don't live a perfect life themselves. And that can somewhat mean that we inadvertently delegitimize the message that they're actually trying to produce, when in fact what they're saying might be incredibly valid, but people don't want to engage with it meaningfully and so find these ways to try and disengage from what it is that they're saying. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that our relationship with celebrities has undeniably changed. And not only has it undeniably changed, but maybe we feel more hostile towards celebrities than we once did. But the flip side to this is there's a new type of celebrity which has kind of taken over and we find far more influential now, which is of course the social media influence of that type of celebrity. People like Mr. Beast or Jake Paul or whoever it may be, KSI is another example. These are the people who are really shaping particularly young people around the world. It's not the George Clooneys or the Taylor Swifts even necessarily, although she probably has more of an impact than George Clooney. It is actually the Mr. Beasts. It is the Jake Pauls. It is these people who are shaping particularly young people. Now this is really dangerous for a number of reasons, primarily because a lot of the content these people produce is awful, like just awful, pushing really bad values on people, bad concepts. And so undeniably, I think there's many reasons why we should be somewhat troubled and concerned around how the role of celebrity has changed, not because it is better to follow what a more traditional celebrity says or does, but because the new modern day celebrity is engaging with their viewers in a way which ultimately could be more harmful. And I think also the sort of problem with social media influences is the illusion of relatability, the illusion of authenticity. Social media is not authentic. It's not real. It's not a depiction of the actual lived experiences of those who use it. If anything, it's quite the opposite. It is a heavily manufactured, heavily warped and twisted and manipulated version of life. But because we view them as being more authentic and more quote-unquote real, that means they can sometimes carry more weight, which can become especially dangerous because we might then believe what they have to say more. But let's talk about celebrities and V veganism specifically because that's what this to me because the reason I'm vegan is for the animals and that doesn't change whether a celebrity agrees with me or not on that. And also because the benefits of a plant-based diet are substantiated by the evidence. And again, that doesn't change based on the view of a celebrity. Now I know that we like to feel validated and one way that we can feel validated is by having a celebrity release a statement or say something positively about veganism. We all like that as vegans. I like it when someone who I like, who I respect, when I find out that they're they're a vegan. Ah, this is great. I'm really happy that they're a vegan. But I think the reason why I'm happy about it is because it creates kind of a bit of a connection in a way where it makes me like them more because on a value perspective, we have something in alignment. But ultimately the perception I have of veganism is not altered because the celebrity is vegan. My perception of the celebrity might be altered because they're vegan. So it's not the vegan thing that matters. It's my perception of the celebrity that changes. And this is important because often Within the vegan community, there are posts that get shared around, which are like quotes from celebrities. And the quote is like, I've recently started eating plant-based and I feel amazing. I have so much more energy from a certain celebrity, let's say. And sometimes that gets shared around and we go, wow, this is great. This person says that a plant-based diet has made them feel better. And the thing is we share that around because we think that that's a good thing for veganism. In the sense of people will see that and say, oh, this person says that, therefore veganism is good. And in essence, what we're doing is we're saying that the celebrity should shape the impression that we have of veganism, not that veganism should shape the impression we have of the celebrity. Now, this is dangerous because if we place the credibility of veganism on how people perceive it or how people engage with it or their views of it, we're actually undermining the credibility of veganism, which on its own is enough to stand on its own feet. It doesn't matter if a certain celebrity feels better on a plant-based diet. What matters is that a plant-based diet is supported by the scientific evidence and that veganism is in opposition to the exploitation of animals. That's what matters, not the anecdotes of any one celebrity. And some of you might be listening and saying, seems a little bit pedantic. Does it really matter? Is it not just a good thing if a celebrity says something about veganism that's positive and we share it around? Why would that matter? But the reason I think it matters is because When we share these quotes from celebrities, or when celebrities say things, we're in essence taking anecdotes from them, and we're using those anecdotes as evidence. But anecdotes are very poor forms of evidence. In fact, they're among the weakest forms of evidence that we can use. But when we use anecdotes to try and reaffirm our position, we're opening ourselves up to have anecdotes used against us. Now Lizzo is a great example, Lizzo the singer. She had gone vegan, she was speaking positively about veganism, and then she released a reel saying she's no longer a vegan and she has quote unquote reintroduced protein into her diet. Now, This is obviously a really frustrating thing. She made this whole reel talking about how she's no longer vegan. And obviously people will see that. And what will happen then is their view of veganism will be shaped by the celebrity. In other words, they'll go, oh, well, Lizzo said that she didn't feel good on a plant-based diet at all. She feels better now that she's no longer on a plant-based diet. This is reaffirming to me that a plant-based diet is not healthy because of this anecdote from this celebrity, which has lots of views, lots of engagement. But that's a real issue for us because what it means is that People's perception of this vitally important movement for animals fundamentally is being distorted by the anecdotes of celebrities who ate a plant-based diet and then have spoken ill of it because of pseudo-health reasons or because of... Whatever reason it may be. And the reason I say pseudo-health reasons is because Lizzo was talking about pseudoscience and bogus health claims throughout her I'm no longer vegan reel. And you see that a lot within ex-vegans. They talk about bogus health claims, just anecdotes that are unsubstantiated and claims which are not grounded in rationality or evidence. But this is why I think it's really important that the way that we as vegans engage with celebrities from the perspective of their endorsements is really important. Because we don't want to be guilty of the same type of messaging or the same type of persuasion, let's say. So when I think of celebrities doing good things for animals, I think of people like Joaquin Phoenix, for example. I think of people like Moby. I used to think of people like Bella Ramsey. Sadly, Bella has come out and said that they're no longer... vegan and that they're eating eggs. And this is really upsetting. Of course it's upsetting. I worked with Bella on a project last year called Matilda and the Brave Escape. And Bella did the voiceover for that short film. And the short film is about Matilda the pig, who is a real pig, who escaped from a farm in the UK and is now living at the Surge Sanctuary. And at the Surge Sanctuary, obviously we have a wide range of animals who've been rescued from animal farms, including animals who've come from egg farms. And so it's just really... It's really upsetting, that situation, for me. And I really hope that Bella becomes a vegan, a true ethical vegan, who would not want to eat eggs. It's just such a shame that this has happened. And for me personally, of course, was really upsetting. But it's really upsetting when anyone stops being vegan, not because of the person, but because of what it means for the animals. And that's the thing. I'm not upset about Bella no longer being vegan because Bella is no longer vegan. I'm upset about Bella eating eggs because eating eggs causes harm to animals. to egg-laying hens. It causes suffering to animals. That's what's upsetting about it. And I suppose that is the broad point around veganism and celebrities. When a celebrity goes vegan, the reason why we should be happy is because a human being is no longer participating in these systems of animal exploitation. That's what should make us happy. And the reason why we're sad when they announce they're no longer vegan is because a human being is now partaking again in these systems of exploitation towards animals. And in the case of ex-vegans who announce it publicly, it upsets us because we know that that can have a negative influence on others, particularly if those people are maybe social media influencers who carry an audience who views them as being more relatable and authentic and who is more likely to listen to what it is that they have to say. Now, that doesn't mean that celebrities can't have a positive influence. Of course they can. And when celebrities speak out about animal rights, like Moby does, for example, that is powerful and it will influence people in a positive way. Even if it doesn't make them vegan, I think the power of a celebrity speaking about animal rights is that animal rights is still not viewed as being as important as it needs to be. And so even just conversations around it are vital because it's providing oxygen to an issue that often doesn't have enough oxygen provided to it. It's creating conversation in a situation where it might not normally happen. And so having people with celebrities who have platforms speaking about issues, it's also about the fact that it raises awareness around those issues. And that is powerful because raising awareness is the name of the game when it comes to things like veganism, because we want people to engage with these issues and have to think about them in a way that they maybe haven't previously. we're not talking about veganism and the word vegan and the phrase animal rights and the true meaning and ethos and principles behind those things is not brought into the wider public discourse, then that means that people won't engage with it. And if they don't engage with it, they're not going to change and become vegan themselves. However, that works in the case of celebrities talking about animal rights and ethical veganism, which is what veganism is. But so much around celebrity culture and veganism is about diet. And this is another aspect of celebrities and veganism, which I think is really important. And a lot of the celebrity conversation around veganism has reduced veganism to a diet because that's often how it's been centered. Veganism is not a diet. And one of the issues around this particular conversation is that the celebrity culture around veganism has made veganism a diet in many people's eyes, and it never has been and never will be. A plant-based diet is a fundamental part of being vegan, but veganism is not a diet. And when celebrities refer to the vegan diet and actors talk about going vegan to get ready for a role, to lose weight for a role, It's making a mockery of what's happening to animals and it's completely removing them from the conversation yet again. And this is a constant problem that we have. Animals are removed from the one movement that actually represents them. The one ethical philosophy that truly takes their wellbeing and their autonomy into consideration is consistently being discussed in such a way as to remove them from that conversation. And we make a movement that is not about us, but it's about them, us, humans. And then we make it not even a movement, but a diet. It's so trivializing, it's so belittling, and it's so demoralizing that veganism is consistently demeaned and its importance is consistently devalued by making it comparable to a diet that a celebrity may partake in to lose some weight for a movie role that they're going to be involved in. And I think that's one of the harmful aspects of how veganism and celebrity has overlapped. So there's a few aspects here. There's the idea that we as vegans perpetuate anecdotal evidence or poor evidence to try and promote veganism, even though doing so is not a good technique and it's not what we should be doing, because the inverse of that is we can have anecdotes used against us, especially when it's the same celebrity that then stops being vegan, as was the case with Lizzo, for example. It's also important to note that I think that the way we engage as celebrities should be that we don't view veganism as being legitimized because of a celebrity, but maybe that we view a celebrity being legitimized because of them being vegan. That's the important dynamic that I want to stress in this video, that the relationship between veganism and celebrities should be that a celebrity going vegan makes us more favorable towards the celebrity, not that a celebrity going vegan makes us more favorable of veganism, because the importance and value of veganism remains the same whether every celebrity is vegan or whether no celebrities are vegan. That's the crux of all of this. And with social media influencers, one thing that we've seen, I think, predominantly is how Social media can influence people away from veganism and into harmful things like raw milk or carnivore diets or whatever it may be. And there are too many social media influencers who view plant-based eating or the term vegan as something that is an identity trait to try and build up their social media platform. And there are many people who have stopped eating plant-based and who have said they're no longer vegan because they want to change how people engage with their social media platform. What I mean specifically by this is there was a time maybe seven, eight years ago where going plant-based and saying that you were vegan on your Instagram profile might have brought people over towards you. But now that's not necessarily the case. And if that's not the case, these people who were just interested in building up their own social media profiles, they found themselves stuck with a dilemma. oh, do I continue to produce content the way I have? Do I continue to make plant-based food? Do I continue to talk about plant-based living? Even though doing so is now less socially popular online than it was six, seven, eight years ago when I started. Or should I change to meet the growing and current trends? And so many people online have done this. I'm no longer vegan. And they make these ex-vegan videos because they get views and engagement and people come over and follow them because they said they're no longer vegan and then they try and broaden their appeal by making animal recipes with meat and dead animals within them and that's part of the problem with this sort of fickle social media society that exists around us it's not about principles for many people it's about engagement and boosting their own social media profiles and what a damning indictment of our society that is And so this is another reason why when we talk about veganism and celebrities, we have to involve social media influencers. And if these people are not being driven by principle, and certainly not by evidence, let's say, but are being driven by what is popular, what the current trends are, what is sensationalist, what is controversial, that naturally leads people to moving away from veganism as veganism becomes more normal and more mainstream, which is precisely what has happened. So... That brings me to the end of this podcast. Thank you so much for listening. I really do appreciate it. And I'd also like to say that if you're interested by some of the themes that I've discussed in this video, I actually discuss them in my books, not necessarily the celebrity aspect, but some of the political aspects. I discuss social and psychological behavioral drivers, much of which is what we have been discussing in this podcast episode. So if you're interested in the themes and topics of this episode and indeed my podcast in general, then I would love to point you in the in more detail and also different subjects or related to the wider conversation of veganism and animals and trying to get people to stop causing unnecessary harm and suffering to them. All right, thank you so much for listening. I really do appreciate it and I will speak to you all in the next episode. Thank you so much for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe to the Disclosure Podcast on whichever platform you listen to it, as doing so means that you can always stay up to date with new episodes. Leaving a review and sharing the podcast is also really helpful. And if you'd like to support the podcast and my work more generally, you can either make a donation through the link in the show notes or sign up to my sub stack where I post weekly and share my thoughts and feelings about the experience of living vegan. In the show notes, you can also find links to purchase my books. Thank you again for listening.