S1E6: Aging: The WTF Years

📻 Buzzsprout Episode Summary: Aging—The WTF Years

"Is it just me, or did this gray hair come out of nowhere?" In Episode 6 of Joint Logic, Jason and Leah tackle the hilarious, frustrating, and ultimately liberating reality of getting older. They move past the typical "anti-aging" clichés to discuss what happens when your body starts making its own rules—from the sudden appearance of "rogue" hairs to the metabolic walls that no amount of gym time seems to scale.

In this episode, we apply joint logic to:

- The Biological Betrayal: Why the body stops "pigmentizing" and starts growing hair in the most illogical places.

- The Menopause & Fitness Wall: A candid look at the "pooch" and why the old fitness playbooks don't work in your 40s and 50s.

- Societal Invisibility: The difference between men getting "distinguished" and women being told to "fix it."

- The "Zero F’s" Frontier: Why the best part of aging isn't physical—it's the mental freedom of finally accepting who you are.

Join Jason and Leah as they debate whether it's possible to hate the physical decline of aging while simultaneously loving the person you’ve become. It’s an honest, un-optimized look at the one thing we’re all doing at the exact same speed.

Chapters:

00:00 The "WTF" of gray hairs and random body changes

03:45 Aging is not for the weak: The physical reality

07:12 The Fitness Struggle: Why the old rules don't work anymore

12:30 The "Invisibility" Factor: Gender and aging

16:55 Psychological shifts: From "Defying" to "Accepting"

21:10 The "Zero F's" moment: The freedom of getting older

26:40 Parental Reflections: Seeing ourselves in our parents

30:15 Intentional Living: Using time more wisely

34:38 Closing Thoughts: Accepting yourself vs. accepting the age

👉 Connect with us: https://monol.ink/jointlogic

About the Show:

Joint Logic is a "lightly researched," life-experience-oriented deep dive into the complexities of modern life. Hosted by Jason and Leah, we explore why humans still think better when they think together.

Transcript

The "WTF" of gray hairs and random body changes

SPEAKER_00 0:00

All right. So this isn't groundbreaking news or anything, but um, you know, gray hairs are propping up for me in random places. And then like, I'm not sure if I'm more upset about the gray hairs or the new hair where there's less hair in other places. Like WTF on all of that stuff, like A, why are there gray hairs? Like, you know, your body's out of energy to to pigmentize its hair, or like, like, like, why is that why is that a thing? Like, why would I want new hair in places I've never had hair? I mean, like, what what so like what's your like WTF moment on like the physical aspects of aging or like how you see that for yourself?

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Yeah. Well, that just opens up a whole rabbit hole, doesn't it? That aging is not for the weak, as they say. You uh you don't realize how lucky you are when you're young to have such a strong fit body. And then the older you get, even if you try to defy that, aging hits you. And especially for women, as you get older and you get into menopause, like as hard as you try to work out, you end up having that little pooch, that little like belly fat that just will not go away. You're trying to work out and you just have to kind of accept it. Yeah, I think the the white hairs and the and the kind of fat in places that you try to work really hard to not have it. Like, BTF, what is up with that?

SPEAKER_00 1:22

All right. Well, uh, you know, no, no big spoiler here, but today's episode is on aging. So we're gonna talk about all the fun things related to that super, super sexy topic. Uh so welcome to Joint Logic. I am Jason.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

And I'm Leah.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

All right, let's get into it. Um, so all right, so I got a few things that I'm pouring over my mind about aging. So I feel like I don't know when the when the start of aging clicked on. Like, I don't know if there's a certain age where I'm like, yeah, I'm aging now. I feel like definitely there's a pivot where when you're younger, whatever younger means, there's a period where you want to be older and you're acting older and you want to be thought of as an older. And then at some point flips completely the other way, right? Where you're like, Oh, I hope people think I'm younger and let me do things to like appear a bit younger than I actually am. I don't know, like like what what year would you say that that pivot point might be if you've experienced that in your life?

SPEAKER_02 2:21

I don't remember how old I was, but I I do remember I I had to sign up for a new doctor. I had new health insurance. And the first time I had a doctor that was younger than me, I think is when it sort of hit me, like, oh, hmm. Because usually I was a young kid and all the doctors were mostly men, older men, white coats, sometimes white hair. And then all of a sudden I get this young hit person not wearing a white coat anymore. And and I'm like, did you even graduate med school? Like you look too young to even be out of college yet. And then I realized, like, oh, okay, I think I am getting old. My my doctors and my dentists starting to be older than me was when it certainly first hit me in terms of like, okay, I think I'm getting older now. How about you?

SPEAKER_00 3:06

What would your big age?

SPEAKER_02 3:08

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Sounds like it wasn't a certain age for you, but just uh, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

The aha moment. Did you have one of those aha moments, or was it an age where you felt like, oh, my bones are creaky or or what?

SPEAKER_00 3:18

That's a good point. I I think uh it's hard to point to a certain number, maybe like somewhere in my 30s. I I don't know. But yeah, I think the experience, the certain experiences, whenever those were, that's probably the main thing. I uh I don't remember anything so specific like what you just mentioned, just a general, like, like I think like lack of or reduced capacity to recover physically from things.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Like that was like, oh, this kind of sucks.

Aging is not for the weak: The physical reality

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Um anyway, all right. So here's here's what I got on aging today. I got it, I got so many things I want to get on, but like I want to talk about like the concept of ageism. Uh I want to talk about the concept of uh, you know, like life experience, and I want to talk about the concepts of like physical changes, obviously, some more, like societal expectations around age, um, and then like a whole bunch of other stuff.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

So let's exciting. Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

All right. So like let's talk about ageism. So I think that, you know, from my perspective, ageism, the first connotation that comes up is, you know, like being mistreated because you're in a just because you're in a certain age, right? Like stigmatism on a certain age. But I think it works both ways, right? I think that, you know, I think the terminology that I'm familiar with is we talk about ageism in one direction if you're young and you're considered inexperienced in something or not up to snuff and skill level, or you know, so that's like trad maybe traditional ageism. And then you hear about you know, like reverse ageism, where maybe you're older than the average expectation for a scenario. And I think that's like reverse ageism, right? Like so, I don't know, like what are your experiences personally with ageism? And um, do you think it's more difficult to deal with like traditional ageism when you're younger or reverse ageism when you're older?

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Yeah, these are great questions. So I I think it's just a funny time that we live in now, with all the generations being called out where they're saying, okay, boomer, or yeah, you know, those Gen X people, they don't know anything, or the alphas, whatever, they have their old whole language to themselves. So I know in my personal experience, when I was younger, it was like kind of like, especially in the work situation, it's like, keep your mouth shut because you don't know what you're talking about, because you don't have enough experience. You haven't worked long enough. So what do you think you know? You know nothing. You're just a baby, right? So that was kind of the reverse ageism, if you will. Like, you're too young, you're just a baby, you know nothing. But now I'm starting to feel it the other way, where I'm sort of at the other edge of the career and I'm in tech, and a lot of people in tech are a lot younger. And sometimes it's hard to get a job. I have I have some friends that have, men even that are dyeing their hair because they don't want to show up to a job interview with white hair because they feel it it will be held against them. And yet we bring a lot of years of experience to the table, but somehow being old is looked at as maybe a negative. So there's there is a little bit of both there. Um, I've of experience it's kind of on both sides, the sort of regular ageism and then the sort of reverse ageism. I can't think of any one like really strong specific example, but like I said, uh mostly in the workplace is when I see it. How about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Yeah, I think I've experienced both ends now, being of the age I'm at. And I mean, as I think about my own question, I think, you know, selfishly, probably they both suck, um, depending on whether you're young and looking the one way or older and looking down the other way. Um, I mean, just kind of goes to the overall point that stereotypes are kind of maybe not the best thing, right? Whether it's age or some other cut of social uh demographics or whatever. Um, so yeah, I don't know. That's interesting. So, like you you you mentioned life experience, like let's jump to that as a

The Fitness Struggle: Why the old rules don't work anymore

SPEAKER_00 7:12

segue. I think of the kind of the the two ends of the spectrum here and the related concept of like life experience, which is usually carrying positive connotations, I think. And then there's, you know, baggage, which is like life experience, but maybe the version that's negative connotations or like more emotionally driven experience versus like procedural experience. So, like, how do you think about that and those two concepts at this point? Do you feel like you have more life experience that helps you or more baggage that creates challenges in your life?

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Huh. I like that question. Certainly have both. I won't deny. I think if I'm being honest, I probably do have more life experience. I've been pretty lucky to have a pretty good life. That, yeah, sure, I have some baggage, but I don't think I have as much as some other people. I've been pretty fortunate in that case. So I bring a lot to the table. I've I've traveled a lot, I've got broad horizons, I'm pretty open-minded when I see that other people have very different living situations. I remember that and take that in so that when I meet other new people, I try to remember that people come from all different backgrounds and different situations. So I try to use that life experience to help me when I'm meeting new people. Um baggage is also life experience, but maybe it's unprocessed and you haven't dealt with it. And maybe, like you said, it still has that negative connotation, but it's still part of who you are and and it shaped you to be who you are. So, you know, take it all in as one, your baggage and your life experience that that makes you who you are. Um, which would you say you have more of the life experience or the baggage?

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Yeah, I guess optimistically also life experience. Though even as you give your answer, I'm thinking about, you know, like again, the the connotations of those two terms more than anything else. And I think what I what I come back to, yeah, is like it's interesting that life experience as a term, I think the things that come up are like, you know, like jobs and like living situations and sort of these less emotional concepts, whereas baggage, I think, almost always connotes like emotional mental history. And that is kind of interesting. I think I think just those two terminologies and the separate meanings that they convey says a lot about our society. So I mean, I don't know. I think maybe we should reject those differences because it's all experience, it's all aging. Um, I don't know, get off my high horse here and go on to the next topic. No, I agree.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

And I'd be interested to hear what listeners have to say on that. Like, do they see a difference between life experience and baggage, or is it all sort of in the same pile?

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Yeah, yeah. That's uh I would love to hear about that some more. Um, all right. So let's let's go back to we we teased this at the top of the episode, but physical changes. So how do you feel about the physical changes that you have perceived as you age? And, you know, like what if any interventions on that physical aging process, like, are you comfortable with or do you prioritize for yourself?

SPEAKER_02 10:28

It is rough. I'm not gonna lie. Your metabolism slows down like crazy. You just don't have the energy like you used to, and you almost feel like you have to force yourself to get out there, work out. I used to love getting out and hiking and walking and running and jogging, whatever. I don't really even run or jog anymore. It's too damaging on my joints. So that's another part of aging, I guess. Um and you think about the consequences as well. I think, like, instead of like, I'm just gonna run and jump off that cliff and go skydiving, or I'm just gonna, you know, go skiing or something, like, ooh, but if I break a leg, what's that gonna look like? The next two months are gonna be really brutal, right? So that's another part of aging. I think like your physical body starts to break down and it doesn't work the way that it used to. And it takes longer to recover. Or if you take a week off, I used to be able to just jump back into the gym and do the same difficult workout that I used to do. And now I'm like, oh my goodness, I it was only one week I took off, but my body feels like I'm starting all over from scratch all over again. Your body talks to you maybe more. You abuse it when you're younger by like just throwing all kinds of bad food or lack of sleep or long hours and all sorts of weird exercise regimes at it, and it just recovers. It bounces back like a rubber band. And as you get older, that rubber band has now been stretched very tightly, and it doesn't bounce back the way it used to, or at least mine in my experience of old age. I do see some people that are as old as me are older and they out, they're out there and they seem much more fit than I was even 20 years ago. So I am working hard to get back at it, but it's a much harder, steeper challenge now because I'm older. So, what kind of physical um interruptions or challenges have you faced as you've gotten older, Jason?

SPEAKER_00 12:18

First of all, I love the uh analogy of the worn-out rubber band. I I think that totally says a lot in a nutshell, but it's also kind of scary because when a rubber band breaks, you can't glue it back together

The "Invisibility" Factor: Gender and aging

SPEAKER_00 12:30

or anything, right? It's done. So I think like I think, yeah, I think the changes that I think about are like, I think they were always there, but I I think I there's in the back of my mind, there's this certain like like fear about fragility, right? Like, I know I'm not a physically fragile person, I'm a pretty serious recreational athlete. Yeah, but yeah, there's always this like cost analysis or risk analysis now when I do something physical. Like, do I care enough about this to risk like a setback that takes me away from the activity that I love? And like there's this constant churning of risk analysis. I think that's kind of what comes up for me. And it's like seems like self-imposed stress that like is not really helping. But I don't know. You know, I think like risk is a topic for another episode, but that's the thing that comes up to me.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

And what about recovery? Have you also noticed like I have that um recovery time, or like if you take a week or two off getting back in is is much harder than it used to be.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Yeah, a hundred percent. And you know, like again, as a recreation recreational athlete, like I've taken to like adding many supplements and vitamins to my diet and like stretching and foam rolling or you know, religion now and um all this stuff. Like, I think my physical therapist once said something that really stuck with me is like, yeah, you know, like you can absolutely do the things you've always done, but you gotta pay to play now. And I think the pay-to-play analogy is really it. Like, you know, you can't just like roll out of bed and do the thing.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Um, you gotta pay to play with physical therapy, with stretching, with supplements, with better sleep, with you know, paying attention to the impact of one day to another. That that's that cycle of paying it, having to pay more attention to the impact of how yesterday and two days ago and the choices you made, how that impacts today and your ability to feel the way you want to feel and do what you want to do. That calculus feels more present to me than ever. Um, you know, I think when you're younger, you're just like, what did I do yesterday? You know, I'd just like you're you're you're much more myopic in like your focus in in terms of time. And now it's like all this calculus around like yesterday, tomorrow, the day after, the next week, the previous week. I don't know. I guess that's just kind of my my brain spinning on those topics. Like, so here's my next one. Like you hear about this concept, of course, like called acting your age. So, you know, like where do you feel expectations, if any, on like on needing to quote unquote act your age? And like, where do you assimilate to those expectations versus you know, fight against them and be like, no, no, I don't think that's valuable. I'm not gonna act my age in this way or that.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Well, I had a pretty fun example from an early age. My mother never acted her age. I I shouldn't say never. At her job, she mostly did, but she was even a lot of fun there. Like, so you never know how old she was because she was always like, yeah, having a good time and sort of breaking the mold. Um, so I did take a little bit of that from her example. But I I will say probably the the most where I act my age is at the job in a professional setting. But the rest of my life, I try to have fun. I mean, acting like old and foggy, it's sometimes like you are the way you act. If you act kind of like, oh, grumpy and down in the dumps and yucky, then and you'll start feeling that way. And when I when I realize how old I am, like, wow, that when I was a young kid and I knew somebody that old, like, oh wow, that sounds really old. And now I'm like, I am that age. And that feels weird, but I don't feel that age. And they do say, whatever, you know, 50's the new 40 and 60s the new 50. And I think we are probably in better health than maybe some of our previous generations, but part of that is because we don't act our age. We have fun, we we take care of ourselves, we try to stay fit, we we have a good time. So to act your age, sometimes I'm I like to be a rebel and and not act my age in most circumstances. How about you? Do you act your age?

SPEAKER_00 16:30

Well, firstly, I want to go back to the work anecdote. So I'm curious. Can you think of a scenario where your instinct was to not act your age in a work environment? And you had to, you know, kind of check yourself and like redirect your behavior.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Um I I am definitely a sarcastic person. I don't know if that's just innately me or if it's from growing up on the East Coast or it's just how my family was, but I love to just say little dry

Psychological shifts: From "Defying" to "Accepting"

SPEAKER_02 16:55

sarcastic quips and maybe being in an all-hands meeting with like the major executive level people. If they're saying something and I say some some silly little snippet, that's when I have to check myself and say, like, nope, you're in a professional environment, you're in a professional setting here at your age and be professional and don't say the little sarcastic quip. But anywhere else outside of there, with friends, with family, even with strangers, I would say that little dry sarcastic quip. So I tend to filter myself and check myself in the work setting.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Okay. Speaking of checking yourself, here's my question for you listeners. So, what like give me your scenario where your mind was considering saying something or doing something in a work environment that you really kind of wanted to do or say, but it just was a non-start or it would have completely, you know, changed your reputation or stance in your work environment. I feel like we all probably have had those moments. So let me hear your moments there. I think those should make some good stories.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

Yeah, throw the comments below. We'd love to hear those. How about you, Jason? What's an example of something? Can you think of anything that you had to check yourself?

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Yeah, I mean, I think I I guess like if I had to, you know, maybe not one example, but categorically, I think, and I've grown in this way as I've aged, but you know, just like this concept of impatience sometimes. If, you know, I feel I have an answer or a pathway to a solution or progress in a work environment. And, you know, people are kind of talking it through and hemming and hawing in my brain. I'm thinking, like, just it's the answer's right here. Just say it. Let's move on. Like, I know the answer. Like, you know, it's not about knowing the answer, it's about like letting everybody have their space and you know, opinions and kind of feeling good about the direction mutually going forward, as opposed to like getting to the best answer as fast as possible. So I don't know any one scenario, but I think that's like a uh, you know, a career learning of mine as I kind of move along in my career.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

So it's fascinating because that's part of being of of aging, of getting older is also like learning, and that's part of being professional. And so something that you gain with age is realizing like, okay, there's a time and a place to act a certain way, but there's also like giving everybody a chance to say their piece or their two cents. And that comes with aging and you know, spending time in a professional setting and seeing how others act and like, oh, maybe I shouldn't just immediately spit out my words and wait until it's my turn and give everybody else their turn. It's yeah, I like that example.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

All right, let's pivot away from the work uh environment and talk about technology. I think technology, I don't know if it sell in and of itself, but it's just a platform for this idea in my brain. So the idea I'm thinking of is you think about, you know, you're younger and your parents, you know, like why do they act that way and they're so geeky or like, God, they're so old. And um, you know, I think like I think about that and like I try to, you know, not be that way. And I think, you know, what is that way? That way is like probably when you stop being close to new ideas, right? I think that's kind of maybe what defines what we think of when we think of, oh, that person's old, you know. And so on that, on that note, like I think in the technology world, there probably is gonna come a point, as there has from every for every generation before us, where we just there's a technological innovation that comes along, we just say, you know, I'm good. Like I don't need any, I don't need to adapt to any new technology. I'm just gonna ride out what I've got. So, like, if you can you foresee, if you get your crystal ball and think about the possible technologies that could impact your life or be available to you between now and when you die, like, can you foresee what that might look like and what might happen in technology where you would say, like, yeah, like I'm not adapting to that. That's a hard pass for me.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

That's a great question because, you know, I think you and I are are similar-ish. You're like right on

The "Zero F's" moment: The freedom of getting older

SPEAKER_02 21:00

the cusp but you're also Gen X. I'm definitely Gen X, where like when we were young, we didn't have much or any technology, and we've sort of grown up with, you know, getting computers and then cell phones and, you know, then the internet. So we've sort of seen it in our lifetime, whereas the younger generation, they've had it their whole lives. So they didn't know life without it. So for me, and also I work in technology. So I like learning new tech things. Like here in San Francisco, we have these driverless cars, and I think they're fun. I got in one early on and it was a little bit scary. And the technology keeps getting better. It's I've gotten in one more recently and it's much better. So it's improved. Um, it was very resistant to AI at first, but now I'm using it quite a lot and I'm enjoying it. It's helpful. And maybe I use it in a different way than some of the younger kids. Maybe younger kids use it just to do their homework and don't think. I think about what I'm putting into it and give it sort of a preformed idea or sentence or something and ask it to help me edit it just so. So that it sounds better or is crafted better versus just creating it from scratch. So it's hard to like look at a crystal ball because I don't know what new technology may come up, but I feel like I'm hopefully open-minded enough that I'd at least try it, try anything new that comes. Like I don't know what else might come out there. Like these driverless cars, then maybe would there be driverless planes? And people might say, oh my God, that's so scary. But like, but driverless cars is pretty scary too. So I don't know. It's hard to say yes or no, would I accept it without knowing what it is? But I think I would be at least open enough to try it. But you're right, like with getting older, it's hard enough just living your life and maybe just trying to learn some new something or other. Or like I'll give a pretty funny example that you'll laugh about because early on, even though I was in technology, I used to carry around a physical paper calendar.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Oh, I remember.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

For years you would tell me, what in the heck? Because you'd say, like, hey, you want to get together. And I'd say, I don't know, I don't have my calendar on me right now. And you're like, Are you kidding me? And you know, eventually over time, I eventually put everything online and have now an online calendar, I have multiple online calendars, right? But it's just funny how, like, even though I worked in tech, I liked having a physical paper calendar. And so that kind of took me longer to progress to the online calendar. But I'm there now and I know how to sync different calendars and send invites out and things like that. So maybe I'm slower to adopt new technologies, but I'm always open to learning them and trying new ones. So, what's your sort of experience with technology? And again, looking at a crystal ball, even though we don't know what may come, what do you think? Whether you'd be open to accepting it as you age and continue to get older, or do you think you'd be hesitant or resistant to it?

SPEAKER_00 23:46

All right, I got three points here. Okay, let's hear it. Everybody who knows me knows you're gonna hear some bullet points. So we're here goes the bullet points. Bullet point one is I feel like we or I feel like I'm in one of the most privileged generations in terms of having lived through a lifespan from almost no consumer technology in the way we think of like computing technology, to today, where computing technology is like all around us and deeply integrated in our life. And I think there's been a benefit to living both sides of that and understanding like I still know and remember like how to use a map and like how to connect with somebody if my phone is does is broken or like the battery's dead or something. But on the other hand, I'm like cognizant and conversant in fairly high amounts of modern technology, and that feels fortunate to me because with the perspective, I can choose to tune in or tune out to these things where I think it's appropriate for my uh emotional, social goals, whatever, right? And you're like really struggling to adapt to the technologies because it's they're coming at you like at an increasingly older age, or after that, where you don't know what it was like to not, you know, like live with a phone glued to your hand, I think you're missing that perspective. And I I guess I feel bad for that. And I guess so, so point two is I guess point two is my listener question. So, listeners, like first tell me, are you, you know, a baby boomer? Are you Gen XYZ Alpha? And where do you sit in terms of generation? And then based on that, like what has been the best technology that you've experienced, and what's been the worst of the one you wish you didn't spend time on? I'd be curious to kind of hear the perspectives across the different generations. Yeah. So I think that's uh that's kind of my reaction to what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 25:41

But wait, I thought you said you had three bullet points. Wasn't that just two?

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Yeah, I forgot the third one. It'll come to me later.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

There's something about ages in there. We forget.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Um yeah. Yeah. Thanks for bearing with me with the mumbles. All right. So next thing, um, let's go back to work. Like, let's talk about how career transitions enter the equation with aging. So I feel like career transition as a phrase itself was not even a thing for our parents. Or, you know, it's like you we talked about this in prior episode on work. Um, you know, like do you just pick the job and you worked it until you retired or you died? Um, you know, but with exception, but you know, that was kind of maybe the norm. The the default, the norm, right? So, like, do you see, foresee any potential career transitions left for you in your career existence

Parental Reflections: Seeing ourselves in our parents

SPEAKER_00 26:40

uh prior to retirement? And if so, like what might those look like in your wildest dreams?

SPEAKER_02 26:45

I think for most of my working life, I am gonna stay in tech. I've always enjoyed tech. That's kind of the way my brain thinks I enjoy solving problems and um more like managing people that do tech. But even that, it's like, well, they're people problems and how can we solve this project or you know, complete this on time, something like that. I I don't think when I sort of quote unquote retire that I'm just gonna stop working entirely. So I may pivot at that point and do something else that maybe either is voluntary or very little money, but is more helping the environment. I've always loved the outdoors. And I think maybe I'd take a job. If it wasn't a job, it might be volunteering, but to try to help make sure that we protect our outdoor spaces or something like that. So that would be, you know, bringing my love of the outdoors and my years of experience together. I don't feel that I would do that now before I retire because I don't know that there's like enough jobs that exist like that that I could get make enough money to pay my bills at this point. But once I retire, I don't want to do nothing. I want to still do something. So I don't know that I'd make a career out of it. So I wouldn't pivot until I retire. But I think I still want to get up and move around and do something and either help animals or the environment or something like that. So I will still be doing something and whether I get paid for it or not is kind of like bonus at that point. What are your thoughts on sort of career pivot or retirement?

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Yeah. Um I have done a lot of side hustles and projects in the last few years. So I think in a way I've already been been pivoting, and I think I'm at a point where I'm integrating those in my life in a s in little slices, and that feels good and sustainable, you know, and the concept of something where it might kind of cross the line between work and passion is um a privilege and to sp to be able to spend energy on, though I'll have, you know, other pathways in the future that are coming up that are going to be more transitionary. I think like not at a point to really kind of dive into them, but yeah, I guess that's where I'm at. It's half answer.

SPEAKER_02 28:49

No, well let's um anyway put it out to the listeners too. Has anybody done a career transition midway through or towards the end of your career? Or are you waiting until retirement like I feel I am? Or are you doing a bunch of like little side hustles like Jason's done throughout his career? And and why have you chosen to do that? And have you found it enjoyable? So let's hear from our listeners on that.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Yeah, I like that. Um, all right. So that's a lot of weighty content. Um, all right, here's here's our microtangent for the day. So when was the first time you realized that you can't party like you used to?

SPEAKER_02 29:23

In my late 20s, early 30s, I definitely have done a lot of pretty early. Yeah, I've done a lot of late nights of of having a good time. I used to work hard and party hard. And I I don't want to say I burnt out early because I just I I enjoyed myself, but I realized like I don't want to live like this for the rest of my life. So I I kind of I'm an early bird anyway, so I go to bed early, wake up early. So I I just can't, I don't know. The older I get, I cannot just have a couple hours of sleep a night. So I I need to get a few hours, a few more hours in. I can't pull all nighters. I was never good at that. So when was the first time you, Jason, felt like you just couldn't party like you used to, or are you still like doing it now?

SPEAKER_00 30:10

No. I I again I'll give an annoying, like nonspecific answer because I can't

Intentional Living: Using time more wisely

SPEAKER_00 30:15

remember the exact, you know, pivot point or or date or event. But I will say, like, yeah, I go back to the calculus I mentioned earlier, where there was no calculus when, you know, a good time partying was like a regular thing, you know, like I don't know, starting in college or or whatnot. Um, but uh now there's just like the the pivot point for me is the calculus where I don't remember when it happened exactly, but just kind of like before the concept was like I'm having a good time, keep having a good time. And you know, now it's like, okay, I'm having a good time, but is it time to wind down and think about the consequences of tomorrow and the day after? I think I don't remember when that exact kind of you know thing happened, but but that that's kind of the the shift now, I think is like you know, kind of weighing the pros and cons of continuing to like do things that you know may not be the healthiest thing for tomorrow, you mentally or physically, or versus like, you know, just being in the moment. And um, it's a struggle because I think like it goes back to our points in earlier episodes about we had a threat on on spontaneity. All right. So, like what what are our key takeaways here? Um, what's the joint logic on this topic? I think that aging is really obviously, you know, scientifically defined by like number of years on this earth and time passing, but I think it's less about that for me than it is just like the rate of my perspective shifting, slowing down. In other words, like when when I was younger, like get new information and my perspective would massively shift at one anecdote or story or or experience with someone else. And now I, you know, I have that same level of experience maybe, and I just kind of pocket it into the data of my brain, but I don't necessarily shift my whole perspective or or remain open to like a you know a substantial perspective shift. Um, how does that sit with you? Or, you know, what's your key takeaway from this this conversation?

SPEAKER_02 32:09

Yeah, I would say I'm about, I mean, pretty much along the same lines where like aging for me isn't so much about a number as much as realizing that, and I hate to sound like pompous about this, but I've I've already gained so many experiences and learned so much that there's a lot less. I don't want to say there's less things for me to learn, because I'm sure there's a whole world's worth of things for me to learn. But if you think about from like a baby who's learning hundreds and thousands of new things every day, like a color and a word and a letter and a how to walk and how to crawl and run and eat, you know, by the time we're our age, we have learned a lot of things. And so when somebody brings something to you, you're like, yeah, then they're done that. I've already learned that. And maybe I can, as an older person, reflect on that and say, okay, well, have you tried this or are are you having a problem? Do you need me to just listen so you can vent, or do you want my help? So I think that's what to me, aging means, not so much a number, but like all of that cumulative life experience, whether we call it baggage or not, but like all of the experience and knowledge that we've gathered. And I think that's very valuable for us as older people. So that's sort of the key point that I've learned from this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Yeah, I like that. And then, you know, lastly, you know, what what questions can't we answer here? So I think for me, the question I still can't answer is like, do I ever really accept aging? Do I have peace with it? You know, I think I have more peace with it than I had in the past, but uh there's definitely moments where it pisses me off and I don't accept it. So, you know, like that's the question I can't answer. Will there ever come a time where I I feel like I really accept it? Um, and what will that look like? And do is that a good thing? Do I want to accept it? What about you? Like, what what's the question you still can't answer on aging?

SPEAKER_02 33:56

Yeah, I like the not not knowing if you'll accept it, maybe being more gentle with yourself. And it's also for me, or maybe more women feel this way, it's that that aha moment of don't give an F anymore. Like when you're younger, you just worry about, oh, what's gonna somebody gonna think if I do this and this and that and the other? And yeah, maybe you still worry a little bit about it. But the older I've gotten, the more I'm just like, mm, don't care. So that's one thing that with getting older has been wonderful and freeing. Just like, okay, I'm me, I am who I am, and accept me or love me for who I am, or don't. But yeah, so maybe you're not accepting aging, but you're accepting yourself for who you are. Maybe that's my aha moment.

Closing Thoughts: Accepting yourself vs. accepting the age

SPEAKER_00 34:38

All right. Well, yeah, that was a good one. Let's uh let's wrap there. And I think coming up soon, we've got an episode on travel. So talk about like what that means and our modern society and how we feel about it. And um, yeah, like how far do we have to go to feel like we're traveling. So yeah, leave you with that. So this has been Joint Logic. Thank you so much for joining us. Please take a look at the uh questions we mentioned and and keep the comments going, and we'd love to continue to talk about this in the comment threads. Uh, have a great one.