S1E7: Travel and Adventure

Welcome to Joint Logic — where real conversations meet practical perspective on how we live, think, and experience the world.
In this episode, Jason and Leah explore travel, adventure, and the idea of rethinking bucket lists.
We also talk about how travel shapes perspective and why our preferences evolve over time.

Whether you're a bucket-list chaser or a slow, intentional traveler — this episode is for you.
📌 Key Topics:
 • The shift from tourist to local mindset
 • Why travel is more about perspective than destination
 • How travel preferences evolve over time
 • The power of cultural immersion
 • Travel as a tool for self-reflection and growth

👉 Tell us in the comments:
Would you rather go back to the same place again & again, or a new place every time?
What is your worst travel experience and why?

Thanks for watching — don’t forget to like, subscribe, and drop your thoughts below.
New episodes every other Tuesday.

Chapters:
00:00 The Transformative Power of Travel
07:21 Planning vs. Spontaneity in Travel
14:23 Cultural Observations and Food Experiences
21:31 Traveling: A Mirror to Ourselves
30:22 Reflections on Travel and Self-Discovery

🎧 Next Episode: Death, Loss and Silver Linings

👉 Connect with us: https://monol.ink/jointlogic

About the Show:

Joint Logic is a "lightly researched," life-experience-oriented deep dive into the complexities of modern life. Hosted by Jason and Leah, we explore why humans still think better when they think together.

Transcript

The Transformative Power of Travel

SPEAKER_00 0:00

So you know that moment when you're sitting on a plane and the plane takes off? Something kind of shifts, right? You're like one moment you're at home and you're stressed and you're working and you got your whole life in your bubble. And then all of a sudden, maybe you feel the the weight lift off your shoulders. So if you hadn't guessed, today's episode we're gonna be talking about travel and adventure. So what it's like to experience the world and sometimes the reasons for traveling. So question for you, Jason. Do we travel to experience the world or do we travel to escape our home life? What do you think?

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Good one. I'm gonna go with the it depends.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Right. I had to cop out.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

I'm gonna cop out with the it depends. It depends. I think, yeah, it depends where you are with your life. What's the what kind of travel? I can definitely think of scenarios where I have traveled for both of those reasons in separate times for separate reasons. So yeah, I I'm gonna have to say like it depends and both, but yeah, that's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Absolutely. Well, yeah, as I said, this episode is travel and adventure. So welcome back to Joint Logic. This is the podcast where we try to make sense of modern life one tangent at a time. I'm Leah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

And I'm Jason.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

And welcome to the episode on travel and adventure. So today we're exploring travel, why we leave home, what we hope to find, and why some trips are transformative and others just leave you with a sunburn and a pile of receipts. Travel can be strange. It can be liberating and exhausting, can be fun, it can be exciting, can be anxiety-riddled. So today we're gonna unpack some of that. I think both of us have been very lucky to be able to have traveled both domestically and internationally, and we have a lot of great travel experiences that we want to share with all of you guys. So I just want to start off with kicking it to you, Jason. Give me a favorite travel story of yours.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

I mean, first of all, your comment makes me think, yeah, I've led a very fortunate life to be able to do the participate in the amount of travel that I have and super grateful for that. Definitely carved out my life priorities in a way to make that happen at the expense of some other things. But long story short, yeah, super grateful for all the travel. But one thing that really stands out to me that I talk about with friends or you know, new friends that I'm making is I took this five-week trip through Italy many years ago. And this was like right when I was kind of getting into food in a serious, foody kind of way. And uh, we, my partner that and I at the time went and did like a backpacking, train-oriented sort of jump around many different towns and cities for five weeks from north to south in the country. And there's just something about the way that we witnessed people eating and the way that we ate and the way that we pivoted our travel around eating, it just completely changed my perspective on food and the rituals around that. And I think a trip where you can reflect on kind of like what you took away from it is still impactful on your life, like many years later. I don't know that there's a higher standard for like a more gratifying part of traveling. So yeah, that was the trip for me.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

I love that. That sounds fantastic. And the fact that it was so long ago and yet it still has such an impact on you. That really was a memorable trip. Love it. So we'd also love to hear what some of our listeners think. And what was one of your best travel stories and why? But then I'm gonna have to pivot because Jason, this is one of my favorite questions that I love asking everybody that I meet. If you could only choose one option, would you rather go back to the same destination over and over again and really learn that place in depth? Or would you rather go to new place every single time, but just really know it sort of on a surface level? And you cannot defer and say it depends. In this case, you must pick.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

So I would be uh, you know, I'd be guilty to not say that was the case. And yeah, I think like it goes to the concept of like collecting points on a map, I guess, as a travel goal or methodology. I think I've definitely, you know, had in my mind like, oh, I want to see this place, that place, I want to have this experience, that experience, and you know, the novelty that comes along with a new experience, I think, can be exciting in travel, and it's maybe something that I've been adhered to. But um that said, it kind of depends on for me, like what type of travel I'm doing, because we've traveled for, you know, friends for social reasons, for um like city and urban reasons, and we've traveled a lot for adventure and outdoor recreation. So I think uh when we've done the kind of travel for yeah, friends and urban reasons, like um, I like the novelty of new places, new places, new places. But yeah, when it comes to outdoor recreation, I think we've revisited a lot of the same places. But overall, yeah, I I think the concept of seeing new places has been the most attractive to me.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Nice. Yeah, and it's a hard one to answer. I think, like I said, both you and I have been very lucky and blessed to have been able to travel many different places. And and it does, it is eye-opening. It it really is lovely to experience new places, especially for the first time. Love to hear what our listeners may think about that. Which would you pick? Going back to the same place and learning it really in depth, almost as if you are a native, like live there, or trying a new place every time. There is sort of that concept of um sort of building up bullets on a map of all the different places that you've been. I know some people keep a list of all the countries they've visited or all the cities they've been to, and it's sort of like they wear it with like a badge of honor of all the different places that they've traveled to or how many stamps they have in their passport. So um we're gonna What about you, Leo?

SPEAKER_01 5:58

What are you where are you on that line? And you know, has that changed in your life?

Planning vs. Spontaneity in Travel

SPEAKER_00 6:02

I think it has changed. I think it uh when I was younger, I was definitely more of a ticket off the list trying to get off uh to as many different places as possible. Because I grew up on the East Coast, I actually went to Europe more than like I know a lot of people that grew up on the West Coast, if they are able to travel, tend to go to Asia or Central or South America. I was lucky enough to go to Europe when every country had its own currency. The euro hadn't come out yet. And to me, that was just another sort of like reminder that you're in a new place that has a new culture, that has a new language, that has a new currency. Everything is different. And it may only be half an hour from one border to the next, but you're just by driving half an hour, all of a sudden now people speak a different language and they're using different money. And that was really exciting to me. So when I was younger, I liked ticking off as many places as possible. Now, as I get older, I want to sort of see a place a little in a little bit more depth and maybe learn it like the locals, maybe go to little undiscovered places that a tourist might not see. So if I continually go back to a place and maybe find this cute little cafe that's mom and pop-owned place, and you get there and they almost treat you like you're a local and they know what your order is, that's kind of fun. There's something comforting and nice about that. But it like it is a difficult question to answer, for sure. And now we're gonna hop into sort of like our three main topics that we're gonna cover today. So why we travel planning versus spontaneity in travel, that's gonna be an interesting one. And then the cultural observations. So obviously, people travel for so many different reasons. They want to escape their home life, they're curious, they want to go on at a big adventure. I always wonder like, are we trying to run away from something or are we running towards something? Or does it not have to be that significant? Maybe it's just like I want to lie on a beach and read a book or, you know, get a tan or go visit Disney or something. So interested in your thoughts, Jason. Do you always have a reason every time that you travel, or can it just be, oh, I just want to, you know, go take a trip and, you know, kill three vacation days or something like that? Is there always a set reason for your travel?

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Yeah, I mean, I guess I would redirect that or like clarify that you know, like what is a reason to travel? I mean, is a reason to travel a certain experience or is it a certain mind frame you want to get into? And I think I have traveled or considering travel or have considered travel for all of those, you know, methodologies. And so I guess, you know, I'll go back to it depends a little bit. But yeah, I think like in my stage of life now, we do a lot more road travel. We've got a nice converted van that we use for road travel, and a lot of it relates to outdoor recreation. So that's like I think the majority of our travel now versus uh jumping on planes and the concept of a more faraway destination or really supplanting your entire like living routine in travel when you go and stay at a hotel and like you don't have any of your you know home environment comforts or that sort of thing. So that's kind of where I'm at at this point in my life is that that concept of road travel feels like more like accessible and frequent, and that's the kind of travel we like here and why we kind of prioritize living here in a way.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

And then do you consider there be to be a difference between vacation and traveling?

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Well, I mean, sure. I think at face value we there's travel for work, right? And I think if you've ever done that uh as I have, it's not as glamorous as it sounds, particularly if you're doing it frequently and staying for short periods of time where you're just bouncing around flights and hotels and meetings, and you're not you're not really traveling in the sense that we think of experiencing a place. You're just you know jumping from port to port, and you know, you're not really absorbing the place, the culture, the whatever. So I think there's a difference in that sense, but I'm guessing which you're driving at more is you know, like the reasonings behind leaving our our environment. And if that's the our common environment, and if that's the reason, like, yeah, that's a super interesting question. I mean, I think I will do both. Sometimes I will feel like I'm traveling to achieve something, and sometimes I'm traveling just to, you know, experience something. And so I think that's like maybe the line to me between travel and vacation. I mean, the they can definitely come together, but I guess that's kind of the that's maybe the difference differentiator for me.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

For you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

What are your what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Yeah, I think I mean there's like like you touched on being business travel and everything. There's so many different types of travel. There's, okay, it's a holiday and I'm expected to go see my family. So I have to use vacation time from from work to do this thing that maybe I only half want to do, but you're expected to be there, so you go. Then there's sort of like if you have a family, we're gonna take the family, we're gonna bring you to Disney, or we're gonna get on a cruise ship and and take this package vacation. Then there's business travel. Um, then there's very adventure kind of travel. People go clear across the other end of the world to um, you know, achieve a goal, whether it's like climb to the top of a big peak or something like that, or ski down some some mountains in Switzerland or something. So yeah, there's so many different kinds, but I would definitely consider like sort of vacation and travel as in sort of like two different, they're similar buckets, but they are to me a little bit different in terms of like what your mindset is. Vacation to me is everybody's wanting to go versus travel is maybe it's it's more of a commitment, whether it's the business travel or I have to travel to my family for um holiday or something. So I think of those as like vacation is your choice. You've picked the location and you've made all the arrangements and plan versus travel is like whether it's a business trip or a trip to see family or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

And what about staycation? That's definitely vacation with no travel work.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Another good call out. Yeah, that's a very good one. And that one sort of started around COVID, right? When we weren't really allowed to get out and people thought, like, well, let's make a vacation of staying at home. Let's just take time off work, but just chill in our environment. We love to be at home and enjoy our houses. So let's just stop working and and just enjoy where we are. That's a good call out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

So you feel that's go ahead. Oh, I was gonna say, do you feel that's been successful for you? Do you do you feel like you can have a vacation that's a staycation and get what a vacation should feel like to you or you want it to feel like in that environment?

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Probably for me personally, no. Because even when I do a staycation, I'm not really staying at home home. So I live in San Francisco, but I love to get out. So I'd I'd still get in my car and drive and go hiking, or maybe go up to Napa and go wine tasting. Or so I'm not I don't know if that counts as a staycation because I'm not truly staying home home. I'm going to museums or I'm gonna go see live music or something. So even though I'm taking time off work and doing a quote unquote staycation, I don't know. Does that count if I'm if I'm still going wine tasting or going hiking or something?

SPEAKER_01 13:20

I think it counts if it feels like a vacation, right? I don't know.

Cultural Observations and Food Experiences

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Yeah. Yeah. To me, a staycation, I guess, was more like always just stay put at home. But yeah, I guess it really depends how you define it. So I'd love to hear what the listeners have to say on that. Like what types of trips do you go on? What do you enjoy and vacation versus travel? And what's your reasons for traveling? So then when you're getting ready and you're packing up and you're gonna go out, what is your planning style? This can really vary. Some people are are micromanagers, they want every single minute of every single day planned out. And it may also like point to what your personality is. So sometimes there can be sort of tensions between you want to control it all and know exactly what your itinerary is versus you want to just have free time to be able to discover. And it can also vary depending on who you're traveling with. So some people get very anxious if there isn't an itinerary. Oh my gosh, what are we gonna do? Where are we gonna go? Where are we gonna stay? If we don't have a hotel booked, oh my gosh, we may be, you know, homeless if we don't have a placebook. And that's not necessarily the case. So I really love talking to people about this. What is your travel style in terms of planning down to every day of every minute or spontaneity? So, what do you typically do? Do you meticulously plan or do you tend to go with the flow? What's your style?

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Um, this has changed for me, definitely. I used to be pretty hardcore on the planning part of this uh planning on the spectrum. Like I'm thinking about the Italy trip I mentioned, many other trips where you know I spreadsheets come to mind, right? Like day one, day 15, accounting travel hours, like variables, being links, you know, just like to the T. If I think about how I structured out that trip, I laugh now, you know, like maybe a little bit more room for spontaneity might have made sense. But, you know, as I said, very memorable trip. So there's something for planning. You know, I mean, obviously you could argue to death the benefits on both sides, and that goes to kind of what do you want to get out of it and do you want to uh I think that has eval evolved for me over time, and now I do take a little bit or leave room for spontaneity when when trips are being planned, and um it's still a little bit anxiety-producing for me when I do that, but yeah, like I do that now and I definitely see the benefit and I appreciate fun and I I've come towards that that viewpoint more over the years.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

And isn't that interesting? Because I think for me, I've almost I've also switched over time, but I think I've done it the other way. When I was younger, I was much more open to being spontaneous. I mean, I remember after I graduated college, I I booked a trip to Europe and I was going to do the travel around with a your rail pass, you know, the cheapest way possible and stay in youth hostels. And I had a backpack with whatever minimal amount of stuff, I just thought, well, if I don't have it, I can buy it when I'm over there. And the travel partner I was going with, we didn't, we I think we maybe had a hotel the very first night, but not even. And the rest of the, I don't know, two, four, six weeks, however long we were there for, we had nothing else planned. We kind of had an idea of what cities we wanted to go to. But if we talk to somebody and they said, oh no, you can't miss this place, okay, well, then we're going to Prague. Or no, well, then don't forget you got to go here. Okay, then we're gonna hit that up. Or we had something that we planned we wanted to go to, and then they said, ah, it's overrated, it's full of tourists, you don't really want to go there, you don't really see much, whatever. You can skip it. So I was much, much more spontaneous when I was younger. Now I wouldn't say I'm to the point of like maybe I'll have an Excel spreadsheet, but it's I like coming up with places that you can see. So I like knowing what is there of a town or a city that I'm going to visit because I don't want to feel like, oh my gosh, I went all the way there and I missed this one thing that I would could have just like gone around the corner and seen it. But I don't want to feel like I'm tied to that itinerary. So I like having ideas of places to go when I'm in a new place.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

But do you I was gonna say, do you recall a certain inflection point in your past where you started to change from like spontaneity to more planning? And if you remember what that was, you know, like why did you make that shift?

SPEAKER_00 17:34

As I got older and had jobs that had less free time, less vacation hours. So I had to be a little bit more restricted and I couldn't just take off four or six weeks. I only maybe had two or three vacation weeks per year. And so I really had to be cognizant of, okay, I'm only gonna have one week in, you know, of vacation to dedicate to this place. So I want to know what's available for me to see. And I know I did start traveling with my brother a little bit, and he's much more of a planner. And so I got to like sort of gel with his style. He said, Okay, there's this, this, this, and this, and we're gonna do this, this, and this. And oh, okay, that's one way to do it. And I remember thinking, wow, that seems very restrictive. And he said, Yeah, but we're not tied to it. So I think I kind of gelled with his idea there, where like you do a bunch of research up front so that you know what's available to you, what the cool places to see. We put an asterisk on a couple of the mussies and don't want to miss. And then the others are kind of like gravy, like, oh, if I I see that, that's great. But if I'm talking to somebody else and I find out, like, oh no, there's this other really cool museum you want to hit up, or there's a really beautiful statue around the corner, go check that out. So it's kind of nice to have that research up front, but not feel so restricted and tied to it, like, well, no, it's 8 a.m. So we have to get up and go do this, and then tomorrow we're gonna do that, you know. Like, I I never want to feel restricted by any type of itinerary.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

I like that. I think that's the best of both worlds, right there.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

A little bit of both.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

I think maybe hopefully I've done that. But if not, that's like what I want to aspire to. Like be educated, but then like, so that if you have a moment of malaise or indecision, you can kind of go to a set list of things and then, but otherwise like be open to spontaneity. I like that a lot.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Yeah, it's fun. And then I kind of wanted to shift again a little bit and talk about any kind of cultural observation. So let's say now you're there. You've booked your trip, you've planned it. And whether you're a micromanager and planned it down in an Excel spreadsheet down to the every hour of every day, or you're just winging it, now you're finally there. So let's say you step off the plane and that sensory overload of going someplace very, very different from what's your normal place where you live, and you get the smells and the sounds and maybe even the temperature change. So now you're like, I am immersed in this new place, some new culture. And to me, that is truly being out there. So you get that first impression, and sometimes that can set the tone for that entire experience, that whole week or that whole experience being in that city. So I'd I'd love to hear some of your thoughts, Jason, on like the cultural observations that you feel when you travel someplace that's so different from what your normal day-to-day life is like.

Traveling: A Mirror to Ourselves

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Yeah, I think going back to that trip to Italy I mentioned, I think observing the way that the the dining and food kind of integrated in people's lives in a fundamentally different way than what I was used to. That was the kind of cultural exposure that I think I would love to would love to have and still love to kind of print repeat as a valuation for a trip. So I think, you know, I think what comes up for me when you say that is I do think like the traditional attractive thing, if you're fortunate to have the time and the means, is to maybe seek travel that exposes us to cultures that we perceive as like as different as possible to our own. That's always that there's been a time in life when that was attractive to me. You know, like where can I go that might have the most different perspectives on life to infuse and combine with my own perspectives? But you know, I think what what's also interesting is like you don't necessarily have to travel to the other side of the world to achieve that. Again, if you're fortunate to have the means to even consider that, I think there's a lot of underrated exposure in like domestic travel. And, you know, with domestic travel, your perception might not be, well, there's just going to be this huge cultural difference where I can absorb the huge gaps in in how I perceive culture versus dislocation I'm coming. But like maybe the gaps are a little smaller if you travel another state or region. But there's a I think I've started to appreciate the value in that more because certainly it does seem without switching topics here, like we are in a world where we have a, you know, a politically very divided country. And so I think then like live the way they live as much as you can as a traveler, and I think I've I've had the the experiences to do that domestically. And I think that's been beneficial as well in its own way. And I think I'm often more attracted to that now than I am about going to faraway lands, as I have had the privilege to do in the past.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Yeah, see, I was thinking about something that's very, very different, say from America, where you're going internationally and being exposed to stuff you've never seen before. But you're absolutely right. Just domestically here in the States, because we are currently so divided politically, it is kind of fascinating as a as a topic to say, oh, well, just within our own country, you can travel and you can kind of reach across the divide, if you will. And even if you just experience new food, I mean, every region here in America, even different regions within the same state, have their speciality. Oh, we we make pizza this way. No, we make pizza that way, or we have grits, or we do this, or we fry stuff, or we, you know, whatever. So I think that's one great way to bond, especially with travel. And obviously, your your story about Italy was about food. I'll never forget when I was in Spain on a business trip, they didn't eat dinner until nine or 10 o'clock at night, which was so foreign to me. But again, it was all about food. You sat down and it was more the experience than the I mean, the food was delicious, but it was almost more about the experience. And and you had dinner that late because they also took about an hour and a half or two hours off in the middle of the day for their lunch and their nap before they went back to the office. So that's another interesting thing to experience is just how people eat, what that means. Do they eat very quickly? Do they sit down and and do sharing plates? Or does each person have their own plate? And what is the style of food? I think food and travel are so interconnected and can be such a great way to learn the local culture and the customs and what's what's native to them. And you can learn a lot about people. People are very proud about their national dish or whatever their food is. So maybe going off a little bit off script because I we were talking more about cultural observations, but I'd love to hear maybe some interesting food stories. And you can't bring up Italy because we've already used that as an option. Maybe even on some of your domestic trips, what's some interesting uh food or meals that you've had that was kind of new to you that opened your eyes to a region? Question?

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Yeah, I mean, are you thinking about the answer? I was I was thinking about that as well, but uh it messed so many answers. I mean, I guess my question for you is going back to the domestic travel use case, do you remember a certain domestic travel experience where you, you know, appreciated something about a subculture that you brought home and you now kind of like assimilate into your daily life?

SPEAKER_00 24:42

I know when I've been to Montana and I got a chance to meet with some the Blackfeet tribe and Native Americans, just the way that they really cherish the earth and they they realize that it is sort of like a big, a big circle that like, you know, the rain comes down, but that nourishes us and and the way they respect each other, humans, animals, the earth. I really took that to heart. I think I always sort of have a part of that in my personality, but just seeing how they did it and some of the different, I don't know, the the tribe was performing a ceremony. So maybe this isn't how they live their normal life. I was I was there during a specific ceremony that the tribe was performing, but I really took it to heart and brought that home with me and and just try to always be reminded of that, sort of like that water is a precious resource and that we're lucky to have the sun and just like really cherish the earth and and kind of take care of it, and it will then in turn take care of us back. So what kind of experience have you had that you kind of then brought back and and took to your daily life?

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Uh but it's just the same with the domestic kind of kind of use case that we're having. Yeah, think about that. Yeah, I don't know. I think you know, a lot of our domestic travel again has been about outdoor recreation. And I think because we live in an outdoor recreation-minded place, we tend to travel to other recreation-minded places. And, you know, I honestly I see more commonalities in those places than differences because you know, people choose to live in them for maybe similar reasons than why we live here in Salt Lake. And so uh yeah, I'll have to kind of like take a rain check on that question because I think because so much of our travel has been oriented in that direction recently. Maybe I just haven't done a good enough job keeping my eyes open, and that's an opportunity to meet, I think, to, you know, put down the recreation mindset and think about what's different about where we are and and bring some of that more of that home with me.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Yeah. I like that. Well, now we're gonna shift a little bit and go into our microtangent moment where we take a little tangent and it's still travel related, but we'd love to hear what is your worst travel experience ever? It can be anything from awful hotel, flight delayed, sleeping in the airport for you know, 17 hours. What was the absolute worst time you've ever had?

SPEAKER_01 26:57

I think selective memory is gonna shut out a lot of these experiences because they're they're scarring, because uh, you know, if you traveled enough, I'm I'm sure you've had them. Man, I don't know. I I'll just like one thing that comes up is as a as a kid, I traveled with my family a fair bit to to Mexico and to Hawaii, which sounds incredible. What when you're a kid, your your purview is so much more narrow. And I think I did not all appreciate that travel the way that I would now, and I have if I've had a chance to go back to some of those places sometimes. So I think one trip that really stands out is we would go to we would go to the the island of Kauai a fair bit, and uh it was uh the trips were like really predicated on my my dad's want to like you know go scuba diving, and so that was part of our the kind of the the trip's motivation planning from my parents' standpoint at least. Um there was one trip where you know we decided to go to a different island, and so we ended up going to Molokai, which is if you've heard of that, kind of a smaller island in the Hawaiian chain, and like the whole thing was kind of a disaster. Luggage got it, it was just like a sitcom level disaster. Luggage got lost, and the plane um when we got there, there wasn't like the diving shop wasn't was closed for the season. So like my dad couldn't do the primary thing he wanted to do there, and then like it was like an uh uh an unprecedented set of like weather patterns and wind and rain for that time of year. I mean, the whole thing was just like, you know, we probably could have looked at it in a better light and got something out of it. But I remember just everybody feeling like, you know, for for standard sitcom reasons, it was like an unmitigated disaster. How about you? What disaster travel stories do you have?

SPEAKER_00 28:49

Um, honestly, I think like you said, your brain tends to maybe like block out some of the worst things, but I also think sometimes even if it's awful, it can turn around and end up being like the funny story. So I I remember one time we were driving from San Francisco down to San Luis Obispo to see the Hearst Castle, and we had tickets and it was, you know, timed tickets, so we had to be there at a certain time, and we're hearing this funny noise out of the car. Like, what is that noise? And we realize, oh, it's a flat tire. So okay, no problem. We'll get out. Let's get the spare out. And oh well, the spare now has low air. There's not air in the and then was there one of the wrenches to take the nuts off so we can at least put the spare. No, that's gone. I mean, it was just like, like you say, it's sitcom. It's like one thing after another. There was another time where I don't know why, but I didn't pack properly. So it was like rainy and cold, and I just didn't have the right clothes. So I was just miserable. And I remember just like, even though I had fun and I was with friends that I loved, it just like my my memories of that trip were just like, oh, it was so freezing cold and I was so miserable. So sometimes that could just be funny though. Like it ends up to me turning around to be like almost the most memorable part, even if it was the the worst part of your vacation. So interested to hear what our listeners have. Like, what's your worst travel experience ever and why? And did you end up being able to laugh about it in the end or you know, make you know, lemonade out of lemons kind of a thing? So love to hear some input from our from our listeners.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

So I think that kind of leads us into you know, our joint logic moment. So, what is travel all about? Is it just about getting to a specific destination? Is it about lying on a beach, going to see Disneyland? Or is it self-reflection? Is it like a mirror into ourselves to see are we uber micromanagers and we have to have an itinerary down to the moment? Does it reflect ourselves and how we react or adapt to the different places? So I think we're gonna end on sort of does traveling make you look at yourself and discover new things? I'll circle back to what Jason said at the very beginning of this episode, and it depends. And so it really does depend. Every situation is different, but hopefully we can make travel a little bit of a discovery of ourselves and new things each time we're out there. So, what would be your takeaway on this episode, Jason, in terms of like travel and self-reflection versus just going out and having an adventure?

Reflections on Travel and Self-Discovery

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Yeah, I think my takeaway is, you know, I feel fortunate enough for whether it's fortune or just a mindset shift to not be cut collecting, you know, travel stamps anymore, really make that the goal of travel. But I think the goal of travel is like, can I leave my environment, expose myself to a new perspective, and then use that for like deeper self-reflection, not to get super meditative or spiritual here, but I think that's the thing that I come away with now and that I want out of travel. And so I think with that, it it reduces the exotic requirement of travel for me a lot. I mean, I still would love to just travel a billion places at the end of the world, but you know, some of those I will and some I won't. And I think where I come back to is like, you know, I I just need to be out of my environment sometimes. Um, and I don't even realize I need to. And I'm out of the environment for a weekend somewhere, and it just just leaving that environment makes you refreshes your perspective or gives you the opportunity or pathway to do that. And I think that's the most important thing that I value in travel is just uh that ability to access a perspective shift to start to solve like internal conundrums or to hopefully try to, you know, iterate towards being a better version of myself once I'm back in my home environment. How about you?

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Oh, I like that. I I I think, yeah, like you said, it's uh it's all it depends. It it really does change over the years. Um, I am not just ticking, you know, items off a bucket list, if you will, anymore these days. I I try to be more thoughtful about travel and try not to leave as big of a footprint when I travel and try to meet some of the locals and and really experience the culture, and that's important to me as well. So this has been really a great discussion. I've enjoyed it, and I hope our listeners do as well. Love to hear your thoughts and your comments on what you liked, maybe what you didn't like, if if there was enough to maybe make a second episode about this. I know Jason and his partner, as he touched on a little bit, really do a lot of fascinating travel, and we didn't even dive too deep into that, so we could probably do a whole other episode just on that, but we're gonna leave it at that for today. And so that's kind of it for today's episode on with joint logic. We hope you enjoyed it. Please share if you did. And in our next episode, it's tackling a little bit of a heavier topic. We're talking about death, how we confront it, do we understand it, and maybe hopefully even laugh about it a little bit. So for now, this has been Jason and Leah. Thanks for tuning in, and we'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

See ya.