13.5 Side Quest Episode: Secrets and ACOMAF's titled parts

This Cat and Rev take a quick side question from the deep dives to talk about secrets in ACOMAF and the important - or significance - of the titles parts of the book so far.  

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hey guys, welcome to the first side quest episode of the Massive Encyclopedia, where we talk about a couple of things we couldn't get into in this week's main episode. This side quest is gonna focus on secrets and the part titles so far in the book, House of Beasts and House of Wind. Rev, why don't you get us started on secrets or book parts?

SPEAKER_01 0:23

I'm gonna get us started with secrets. Let's talk about whether one of the secrets that I think we're seeing being held is that Reese Sand knows that he and Vera are mates. Don't ask me this.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Because it changes by the hour. I'm gonna go with my answer from last season. Yes, I think that is what he feels when he stumbles last season. And I think that is why he's so adamant about helping her. I think if he did not feel that mating bond, he would be more inclined to just leave her be or not push her to get her powers. But I think also he is putting her through certain tests to make sure that A, that the mating bond, I don't know, chose correctly, but also that she's willing to do these tests.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

So I think he does, and I think it's a secret he keeps through the whole book until the end of the since you introduced the topic, talking about her powers. What about how many people keep secret from Ferah the powers that she has? Like, especially Tamlin, like not just keeping secret the powers that she has, but also he's like being very withholding from her and keeping secret like how to control these powers because he's so scared that if they start training, the what someone might come to Spring Court and see them, and then she's gonna be training with these different powers and like teaching her how to control these powers is also something that should be held secret from everyone else in the world. It's secrets on top of secrets on top of secrets.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

But I think the other side of that is he tells her secret to Ianthe. He tells the secret of her powers to the high priestess. It is so telling about his character, A, that he doesn't want to explore her powers. Lucian wants to. Lucian has tried multiple times and has told her, I'm trying. He's he's gonna say no, but I'll keep trying. He can see what has to happen, but Tamlin is refusing to let her secret out, let their secret out, except to Ianthe. I think that was a huge breach. And I almost wonder if that's one of those character points where Fera, a healed Phara, if you will, will never forgive that moment. Because I if I recall, in the chapter chunk we just read, she thinks I hadn't wanted to tell her. But Ianthe knows.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Okay, so I have two branches we could go from this. The left branch is Ianthe keeping secrets about all the people that she wants to hook up with or that she's trying to hook up with. Yes, exactly. Or the right branch is not only is Tamlin trying to keep her secrets, but combining with Ianthe and being like, we can keep this secret together, but he is now trying to protect her, quote, keep her secrets, quote, from the other courts. Is he actually keeping this secret to protect her? Or is he keeping this secret to make himself more powerful in the end? Do you want to go left or go right? Where do you want to go?

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Let's go left. Let's go with Ianthe.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Because we're going side quest. We have directions. We can go right or left.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

I feel like I feel like Ianthe is going to be the shorter answer. I think the fact that she we learn later on in this book, I think it's the next chapter chunk. We learn that Ianthe tried to hook up with Re-Sand and he wasn't having it. But in this chapter chunk, the way she's talking about Re-Sand, how he can't get he can't shouldn't have any more power. He's already powerful enough. Maybe we can get rid of him. I think she is a woman scorned, and I think she went to the next best thing, and she went to Tamlin, and now she's feeding him. She is feeding into his ego of you could be the most powerful High Lord because look at your wife.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Then she knows that Tamlin now has a wife, so she has to go to the next best thing, which is her trying to hook up with Lucian.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

But he has a wife who has all of the powers of the High Lords. By putting herself in a little trio with Tamlin and Fayra, she is partially in this power bubble. But now, potentially, Tamlin is going to be the most powerful High Lord because of his wife by extension.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Totally agreed with that. And she still keeps trying to hook up with anyone that can get her any grain of safety. Yes, she is power hungry.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Yes, always has been. And we find out that other high uh priestesses are the same way. They are all power hungry, according to Reese Ann. I mean, Gwen's not, but that's an entirely different book. So it makes me want to pay more attention to her because is she a high priestess or is she just a priestess? When we get there. Yeah, I can't remember.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Um, okay, so that was her. What was the other one? Now we get to go right. Going right is is Tamlin protecting her from all the other courts? And that is his secret. He's keeping her a secret from all the other courts to protect her, or is the secret of keeping her protected from all the other courts so that he can use her even more and get all of our powers that she has from all the people?

SPEAKER_02 6:49

He is a warrior. We know this from last book. What does a warrior focus on and what do they look at? Strategy. If you have the biggest weapon, you keep that weapon holed up until you need to use it. Let's say Resand is right and there is a war coming. Do you want to tell everyone that you have the power of all of the courts at your disposal? No, you keep that locked down until you need it, and she's already letting these powers out. You just let her on the battlefield and let see what happens. She might not be able to control it. She can't even control it. But she can let him out. She's using these powers. I think he is doing this not to protect her. I think he's doing it to protect himself from an immediate war with, let's just say, the autumn court, because we know Lucian says, if my father found out, he would go to war about this. Yeah. I think he's yeah, he is protecting his own court, but I think he is also keeping that weapon locked up. Now here's a question. What do we think about the fact that she is keeping secrets from Tamlin? We know she didn't tell him everything about the conversations with Reese.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

Is this going back to does she know that she is mates with Reese? Or is she just so innately human, knowledgeable about I know I'm not being treated the right way, and I don't like this, and so I can't tell him everything because I can't trust him.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

I think she is very aware, she's situationally aware. You don't tell your boyfriend, your partner, that their mortal enemy has been kind to you because to them, because to Tamlin, Reese can never do anything good. Forget the fact that everybody saw the way that Tarquin let out that breath of relief under the mountain. Forget about the small graces he gave people under the mountain. He's the villain. And he will always be the villain of Tamlin's story. I think she knows. I I can't tell him that actually Reese was very kind to me. Actually, Reese is making sure that I eat. Reese is making sure that I learn how to read and write. To him, it's all abuse. Remember, every time she comes back, he's like feeling her and turning her around. Are you hurt? Anything wrong? Now she'll tell him as much as she can, but uh we know that there's stuff she does not tell.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

But he is asking, is there anything wrong? Are you hurt? He's asking those questions in a superficial manner, but not actually caring for her. I don't think he's actually caring for her in that he wants to make sure that she's okay. He's doing the minimum. That's why he has Alice, that's why he has Ianthe.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

I think he's doing it as to check: is there a reason I get to go to war with him? If she came back with one hair out of place, say less. We are getting the troops ready to go to war with the night court.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Is this like how when Moore rescued her, she said we had to do it by the book, and I did it by the book? Is that kind of what you're saying?

SPEAKER_02 10:24

Yes, I think it is. I think if it had been re-sand, or if she had gone in and let's say Alice was there and Farah struggled, different story. But the fact that Fayra agreed and Fayra was not hurt, I think that is a huge factor. I want to talk a little bit about Tamlin and Lucian. Because Lucian feels like the only person Tamlin does not lie to. Do we do we get the sense that Tamlin is lying to him? I d That's a really good question.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Um, my initial thoughts are I think Tamlin does what Tamlin does best, and he just would say whatever he had to say to Lucian to make Lucian feel better. A about what's going on in his court, and B about how he was treating Fayra. Because whatever makes anyone more docile for Tamlin achieves his goal.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

What's your thought? My thought is initially I was gonna say no. I don't think he holds secrets from him, but remember when Lucian sees her talons come out and he kind of nods to leave, Tamlin and Ianthe are locked up in a room together talking. It is there are secrets happening between Tamlin and Ianthe that maybe Lucian is not privy to. Even though his job is essentially spy master, he needs to know everything. He could never be Azreel. He could never be Azreel. Now, I've got one more question on this section, which I'm sure you have more. What do we think about the fact that one of the powers we see her use in this section is her Dea Monte power, which essentially allows her access to everyone's secrets if she uses it against them? There are no secrets when you're in someone's mind.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

I mean, I think we've already seen her enter Lucian's mind. Did she actually enter Tamlin's mind when uh that one night they were having sex? To protect, protect, protect. Protect, protect, protect. Right. And she's like, he just saw me in all these different ways, and this is just what he thinks. Like, you are right when you pointed it out to me that, like, how does she even think that? So I don't know. What's your opinion?

SPEAKER_02 13:10

I think it is interesting that the person who seems to be at the center of all of these secrets Tamlins, Reese's, Ianthe's Lucians, everyone's secrets, she has the ability to go into people's minds and is very good at it. We see her go into Reese's mind, and even Reese is like, How did you do that? We find out how, and it is understandable, but it is still he she finds out things, and I think uh it is an interesting power that that she has.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

And if it is true that she is actually doing that, I also find it interesting that SJM has kept that a secret from us. That like if she knows that all of these things are true, but like does she know that she knows, or does she think these things are true, but doesn't realize like she's actually going into their minds and realizing these facts. Like, is SJM keeping a secret from us that we don't even know if she knows this?

SPEAKER_02 14:27

And maybe another thing to think about are the Surreal, whose essential job it is, is to reveal secrets. What do you want to know? And I will tell you.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

He literally begs her to ask him questions, and she is just I mean, Maslow's hierarchy of needs. If your things are not met, there's only a certain amount of questions that her mind is going to have the mental space or the capacity for. But like with the surreal, she could unravel everything.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

Yeah, I I think secrets are such an important part of this book because when they eventually go to the summer court, they're going with a big secret. They're not going to help relations, they're going to steal from Tarquin. And then don't forget the secrets that the six queens use. They're keeping secrets. A, that they can winnow. B, that they are lying to her or them. They're using this as a trap. And also, don't forget Moore's power is truth. What is truth but secrets revealed? The opposite of secrets. So much to unpack. It's a very cool topic, and something that I think is very important in this book. And I think it's important in all of SJM's works because what what's the whole plot of Crescent City? Danica's secret. What happened to the horn? And also the secrets of Throne of Glass. The big secret of Selena Sardothian. She was not in league with Ailen Galathenius. She was Ailen Galathinius.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Oh my god. The biggest secret of all in that book is Irene.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Like Irene, Lysandra's truths? Like, I think the question is what is the bigger theme? Is the theme secrets or is the theme truth? Truth teller.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Like you did not. Oh my god. What did you just do? Ah, I hate you. I love you though. Truth teller. Oh my god. With the theme of secrets. Spymaster. He's a spymaster. I was just gonna say that right as you said it. It's so good.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Like they're so tied together, and it's such an important part of the book. It's such an important part of multiple stories. I'm so glad we did this side quest. Uh-huh. Wait, we're not done. We're not done. Let's move on.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

House of Beasts versus House of Wind. Any initial thoughts, or do you want me to jump in? I have thoughts, but why don't you jump in and I will piggyback off what you say? Okay. House of Beasts versus House of Wind. My big two first thoughts. Reese walks in and talks about all the beasts have been let out of their cages tonight. And that's talking about when he goes to Springcourt on Kalamai. And then think about how often Tamlin is going off on these. I'm just gonna say it, we just talked about it, secret side quests that Tamlin's always gone. And a lot of it is referred to as there's like all these other beasts that are invading Springcourt. So why does Springcourt have so many beasts and Nightcourt doesn't, or Valeris? Is it because Reese kept Valeris a secret? So I mean that he says tie in House of Beasts and House of Wind and secrets, and I have so much more to go off on it.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

He says in it, none of Amarantha's beasts knew about Valaris. So I think that it's it's tucked away, nobody knows. But going off of what you said, not only is Tamlin going off on all of these hunts or all of these invasions, during book one, how many beasts and dark creatures come into the Spring Court? We've got the Puka, we've got the Naga, we've got the Bogey. Weren't there like two or three other ones? They are constantly coming into the Surial. Well, but the Surial was not creeping in. The Surreal wasn't she was hunting the Surial. That's why I didn't specifically.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

But the Surial was there, and it is technically a beast.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

Yes. But like I think it's the it is a house of beasts. It is that's where all of these Amaranthus dark creatures are, and there's more that we don't hear about. But also Tamlin's trauma, the way that he processes it, is in his beast form. His manor house is quite literally a house of beasts. When he wakes up in the middle of the night, he's in his beast form and sleeps at the foot of the bed. Yeah. It is literally a house. Hamlin is a beast in Springcourt. Yes. And sure, we'll go ahead and say it. His behavior and his treatment of her is beastly. He is a monster to her. He's the monster that locks her up.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

He's also like, just to build on where you were saying beastly, I just thought of something else that I did not have down in my notes. But it is. He goes through and like destroys a lot of Springcourt. But then as Fayra starts changing, she becomes beastly and starts destroying. Remember when Alice says she like destroys the doors? Like even Fayra becomes kind of beastly.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Well, we talked about this a little bit in this week's episode. We talk about how maybe her personality adapts a little bit to who she's around because she lashes out. She can't control her anger. She has talents come out at one point. How often did Tamlin do it? More times than I can count.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

But she never does that that we ever see in Nightcourt. So that is a very big evidence of House of Beasts versus House of Wind.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

And Reese does not let his beastly side out. The only time we see him fully transform is in the third book when they are at war. Sh he lets his wings come out, but that's not his beastly form. That's his Illyrian side. But his beast form only comes out when he wants it to. It is not a sense of he's lost control. He is so in control that he does not let the beast out.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

He's so in control that, like the last episode that we just recorded talked about his rage is if Tamlin's rage is uncontrolled and fury, Reese's rage is controlled and smug. He's just like, see me picking this lint off of my sweater. This is me wanting to kill you, and this is how I don't do it.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

My other thoughts on House of Wind is the House of Wind is Re-San's other home. It becomes Nesta's home, quite literally becomes a sentient being because of her and is so welcoming. Gives her books. It gives her books, it gives her food, it gives her water, it gives her a little unicorn. It or a Pegasus, gives her a little Pegasus. But also the house of wind is connected to the library by 10,000 steps. It is quite literally connected to the sanctuary for those in need. Is the house of wind not a sanctuary for all of them?

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Here's the thing that I told you I wanted to tell you, but I couldn't tell you until we got on here, and I just have to read it from my notes. House of Wind holds the court of dreams. So if the court of nightmares is below, what do we call that house? And I said the house of depths. And that just ties into Zelda, Tears of the Kingdom. And we're on a side quest. That's what we're doing. I told you I just was gonna tie it in, and like that's the only thing I wanted to drop in on you.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

I love it. I think that's all I had for the House of Wind and House of Beasts. I think it's really important. I'm excited for when we get to House of Mist and see how that all works in. But that will be in quite a few episodes.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Great. I'm done with our side quest. Anything else?

SPEAKER_02 23:52

Nope, nothing for me. So uh I guess I will see you probably what in like three days. But 15 minutes. Or 15 minutes. Or I will see you online next week for next week's episode and possibly a side quest. Who knows if we're when our next one will be?

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Who knows when we're gonna have side quests? Because we don't know until we get there. But thanks so much, and I hope you all have a good night. Thanks. Bye. Bye.