Episode 4: Luca C

Luca C joins me for his very first extended conversation about the 2010s and beyond. 

I'm so honoured that Luca agreed to this. We've known each other for a long time now, but even so, recording a podcast and talking about your life, especially the more personal stuff, is a big step if it's not something you've done much of before. 

Luca's music career and output is incredible - from his early years in bands, DJing on the side, touring the world with Cazals - even supporting Daft Punk. To his prolific electronic music exploits: with Brigante, as Infinity Ink with Ali Love, and as one quarter of Hot Natured, plus much much more. 

He's got lots of stories, lots of history to share and he does it all in such an engaging and articulate way. 

Dare I say, one of the best episodes so far. 

Enjoy and sign up to the mailing list for early listens and extra treats --> https://form.jotform.com/253575864906370

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Yo! Welcome back to the 2010s Rave Archives podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:04

In each episode we explore the history and stories from the 2010s era, which for many of us was a golden time. We're on to episode 4 now, and I've got a very special guest for this episode. It's the one and only Luca T. So Luca was very busy during the early 2010s, involved in many different projects. Luca C and Brigante, Infinity Inc., Hot Natured, Solo Work. He was deep in the game. So Luca and I had an extended chat talking about all of the ins and outs of his career, how he got involved with electronic music, his history with Electro Clash and Indy, and all the different projects that he was involved with, with Addie Love, Jamie Jones, Lee Foss, Brigante, and a whole cast of assorted characters. Luca's story is really interesting, he kept consistent throughout the whole of the 2010s period, moving away from deep house, finding his own sound, and he's still busy today.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

We also got pretty deep and personal, talking about Luca's shift into sobriety.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

And he also talked a little bit about the forthcoming Hot Natured album. We ended up chatting for nearly an hour and a half. This is a really great episode. I'm sure you're all gonna really enjoy this one. Make sure you join the mailing list, which is in the link on my bio on Instagram and in the description of this podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Feel free to share the link. Hit me up with any feedback. It's always very welcome.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

To kick back, press play and enjoy this episode with Luca C. Let's go.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Hi everyone, welcome to 2010's Rave Archive, the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Welcome to another episode of Stories and History from the 2010s era. I'm here with Luca C, who I've known for quite some time now. Luca, thanks for joining me, man.

SPEAKER_04 2:05

Thank you for inviting me.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

All good, bro. All good. So a lot of people may not be aware that you have a history before the 2010s, because you know, this page is obviously all about that era, and you were a very prominent artist during that time. But you were doing stuff before the 2010s. So would you mind just giving me a little bit of background about what you were up to? Because there was the Casals, for example, and you know, all of that kind of stuff that you're doing musically before the 2010s hit.

SPEAKER_04 2:36

Sure. So, well, first of all, thanks for inviting me. It's a pleasure to speak to you after properly after such a long time. We used to hang out quite a lot back in the day, and we did a lot of similar kind of stuff, but podcasts weren't a thing back then. It was more like interviews and and written stuff, right? So good to it's good to do this now. And um yeah, before the 2010s, so I moved to the UK from Italy in the big at the beginning of the decade in between 1999 and 2000, at the end of 1999. So there was uh a good 10 years of me living in London before that that period started. And I was always doing music. I've been doing music since I was a teenager. So I was 20, uh, 19 when I moved to London, and I was already a musician before I'd released records, started when I was 16 releasing music. Um it was a different kind of music, it was more guitar music, although there was always an electronic influence to it. And you know, I've always had to think for buy records and of all kinds, you know. So even when I was playing in bands and stuff, I was already starting DJing and experimenting with different sounds, starting with dub, uh, then got into more like disco and funk sounds, then the more electronic side of disco and you know, then into house music. But like the last thing I did before making the full move into electronic music was um, as you mentioned, uh a band called Kazell, which was kind of like a post-punk indie band kind of sound that was big in in the mid-2000, late 2000 in the UK, with bands like Block Party and Future Heads, kind of like jagged kind of post-punky sound, but we had a little bit more electronics added to it. But when we started, we were poorly like guitar, you know, guitar bands were signed to the same label as Baby Shambles. So we were touring with Baby Shambles, so we did quite a few tours with them. Then I ended up doing some sessions uh live with the band on Keys, did Brixton Academy with the lads and did an Italian tour, which was pretty cool. At the time, I was living with the bass player Drew McConnell, which is a really good friend of mine, and also one point Ali Love, which ended up being the singer in Infinity Inc. Hot Natured, and yeah, it was like a great time, you know. That kind of sound that that the UK indie sound was pretty big internationally at that point, and like yeah, I mean we were young and had a lot of fun, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Um you know what I love is like you you've been so deep into music of all kinds for such a long time, man. And you know, even just that decades between 1999 and 2009, you were just like knee deep.

SPEAKER_04 6:01

I was knee deep, but the thing is, like, I'm talking about this scene, but at the same time, I was also going clubbing, you know. Uh maybe I wasn't telling the guys that no, I'm joking, but yeah, I was going to the end, I was going to the fabric, you know, I was buying like house records. Uh for me, like music has always been like a 360 kind of thing, you know. Um even in the way I approach it, you know, I I produce, I play, I DJ, I run labels, I've always done everything to do, you know. Yeah, it's just the way I see it. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

When you were going out pre-2010s, you know, the end fabric, etc., were there any particular artists or or label nights or anything that you were more likely to go to?

SPEAKER_04 6:57

I mean, it was kind of like the time when electro clash was happening and there was stuff going on all around East London. Parties like Nag Nag Nag, and then Errol Alcan's party at the end, which was mixing like electronic music with with indie music, so wax was happening, peaches, all that kind of stuff, which is like very um pioneering a sound that is actually just come back in the underground right now, you know, the the sort of like electroclash uh revival that that we've seen recently. It was that, but then there was also like the UK tech house thing still going strong at the end, you know, like Bushwaka had his party, which was wicked. We all used to go to that as well. What else was uh well, fabric has always been fabric. There was a lot of stuff going on, you know. There was a lot of also like every weekend in in Shoreditch, there was like warehouse parties in some kind of loft or you know, warehouse, or it was easier to put on those kind of events back then, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Absolutely, yeah, man. And Shoreditch was very different back then as well. Yeah, very different. So, how from being on tour with Kazals and being connected to baby shambles and you know being kind of involved in that kind of scene, but also stepping out on your own into going to clubs and stuff and being you know into that. How did that shift occur where you ended up being more on the electronic side?

SPEAKER_04 8:36

Well, with Kazals, we ended up releasing an album on a French label called Kitsune, which was run by Gilda Loec, who was one of the managers of Daft Punk, and the manager of Roulette, the owner was Thomas Bangel from Daft Punk. And we released on Kitsune, the album did pretty well. We ended up touring all around the world. We opened for Daft Punk on the Alive Tour in Japan, um, yeah, which was pretty sick. And um, that was kind of the peak of the band, and then we'd been working at it for like quite a few years, you know. I was like five lads, we're all living together, practicing every day, yeah, recording, doing you know, doing what bands do, going on tour for not much money, and you know, trying to make ends meet in in various different legal and illegal ways. And uh, and then yeah, we we made this album, did this couple of like really amazing things and toured all all around the world. We went to the United States, uh, we went to South America, Japan, and then somehow it kind of came to an end. The band thing, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Yeah, happens, man.

SPEAKER_04 9:57

It happens, you know, it happens, and then it was pretty sad. But like by that point, I'd already started making electronic music with uh Ali Love, who was by that point, it was my housemate and like really good friend. He was signed to a label, an electronic label called Backyard Records, which was a pretty big label.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:22

And uh he was making an album and and like writing together. At that point, I was really deep into my Italo Disco sound and like 80s electronics and stuff, but also like synth pop, like new order and the pech mod, and all that stuff. So the band was kind of like verging towards that sound, and and then when I started producing electronic music, I went fully into that, like fully electronic synths, and started buying synths and machines, drum machines, and that was that. I wrote a few tracks with Ali for his album, didn't put my name to it. I just yeah, I just co-wrote with it. And around the same time, I met my good friend Sebastiano Brigante um in some warehouse party in West London, and we got introduced. He was a fan of the band, and he was an electronic music producer already. He was uh more into the sort of like UK break meat kind of scene. And before that, like he was a um Goa trance kind of guy like mid-90s. He actually went to Goa when when it was happening. Wow, pretty amazing. Yeah, I don't know anyone else that did that, and yeah, so I met with him and he was like, Why don't you come to the studio? And yeah, went started going to the studio and jamming with him, like making edits. We were making edits of Italian music from the 70s and adding like electronics to it. Um, some weird experiments, and those demos were played to uh Nathan Thurston, who was the head of AR of um Southern Friday, yeah, and he was just like, Wow, this stuff is like amazing, never heard anything like that, and yeah, he he signed us to Southern Friday, which was like pretty big label at the time, yeah. Man, I guess now too. I don't know. So we got signed off the back of some like edits that we made. Brilliant never they never even got released.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

There you go, man.

SPEAKER_04 12:32

Yeah, but then after that, we we actually started making like house music, but then we actually we wrote different morals, which was our first big tune. Wow. Um that was featuring Ali Love on vocals, and and that kind of started everything, you know. How did that come about? We were in uh Lab Grove in Sebi Studio, fucking around, probably partying, I I I would assume, definitely getting high like smoking for sure. And at the time we were just like smoking all the time in the studio, and I think Ali just showed up to say hi and started freestyling on the beat that we had.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

He's so good at that, isn't he, man?

SPEAKER_04 13:20

Yeah, I don't know if he already had the lyrics, but it definitely wasn't like a pre-planned session, I don't think. Yeah, and then we did that, had the demo for a while, played it to NATO, and he was like, This is great. I I was just starting to sort of understand house music from a producer point of view, you know. For me, I remember thinking, oh, but like it doesn't sound quite right, you know, there's something that it's not like really dance to it, the beat it, and in the end, you know, it really worked because yes, it was a house, deep house tune, but it also had the the a musical element that wasn't necessarily housy, you know, which was I guess due to like mine and Ali's background in non-electronic music, but also SEBI, you know, SEBI listens to a lot of like uh stuff that isn't club music, still like a lot of experimental stuff as well. Um but so yeah, so the track went really well. It was played that summer in Ibiza in DC 10, it was played by all the bigger DJs, and um there was a remix by uh these guys called Clockwork, which that was pretty big as well. I think that was like the leading uh mix to start with, and then the original came after. Yeah, um, I think yeah, Seth Truxler was playing the Clockwork remix, and a lot of people and then Jamie played the original on a live mix for space Ibiza, and then everyone was like, Oh, that's the original tool. People started playing it.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

It's so interesting, isn't it? Because that tune, when we look back now, it really fits in with that kind of energy and sound of that time. But I can imagine that when you were making it, you weren't thinking, like, oh, like this is the sound of now, and we're gonna just like tap into that. You just kind of made it kind of not in a vacuum, but like you know, like it was it's not like you all of you guys were like hanging out with each other, and there was this like big cohesive scene. You guys kind of like made that tune, and when we look back now, it sounds like it kind of fits in with a lot of the other stuff that was being made at that time, just because I guess it was being played in sets.

SPEAKER_04 15:39

I guess so. I then that's definitely why. I mean, I like we were like listening to the classics where we made that, you know, when it comes to house music, we're listening to like fingers ink and all that kind of stuff. That's the sort of sound we were trying to replicate. We were using uh the Juno 60, we were using like the machines that I still use now that are timeless machines, you know. But yeah, I think what happened was that I don't want to sound bragging, but there's uh there's a sort of like timeless quality to that track and to other tracks that came out in during that time, you know. Funnily enough, I'm releasing like uh a new update version of different morals in the next couple of weeks on uh a really cool French label called Airfunk. Nice. Um yeah, it's uh it works. I made I made uh a version for a live set and sent it to the to the guy that runs the label, and he was like, Wow, this is amazing! I remember it from back in the day, and you know, he's a younger guy, you know, because also you have to think that that music for a lot of people was like their introduction to electronic music, absolutely, you know. So this this these kids that were like 17, 18 at the time, we were a bit older, but like they were maybe like listening to their older brothers' yeah, music. They were like, Wow, this is cool, you know. Yeah, in their early 30s, and they do you know music themselves, and and for them that was like their beginning, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Big time. It's so funny that we are now part of a generation where the music that was kind of like we're already grown up, and like we were listening to music that was old school as in Fingers Inc. And it was like old school to us, but like the music that we were like doing at that era is now kind of old school to a new generation, yeah. And there, and like because I did a post about um Battle for Middle U by Julio Bashmore not long ago, and loads of people were like, This is the tune that got me into house, and I'm like, I was already in my 30s when this tune came out, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:49

Oh yeah, I remember that tune. Yeah, hanger, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

So um, so many people still go crazy over different morals as well. How how did you guys then uh because you you did quite a lot of music as Lucas C and Brigante, didn't you?

SPEAKER_04 18:05

Yeah, so after that, we made a sort of Baleric mini album, like a slow kind of cosmic disco-inspired Sinti pop album with vocals.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Um yeah, I I love I love that release so much, man. Yeah, it's called uh Invisible Cities, yeah, and and and is uh it's based on the book, isn't it? I actually bought that book after you guys mentioned it to me, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:31

Yeah, so we did that, but at the same time, I mean that was kind of like more like listening music, it was really for the head, so commercially it didn't really do it that well, but like the people that like, for example, at the time, like Lee Foss got to know about me through one of those songs. And Lee was really listening to a lot of like experimental stuff back in the day, you know, not experimental, but like maybe like indie and stuff outside of the club music thing, as well as a lot of like RB and like you know, US kind of old school stuff. But that was like really cosmic that record. Um it was also like a tribute and and gift to the psychedelic experience that that we were going through at that time, you know, experimenting with like different um plant medicines and different types of of ways to connect to the universe, let's say man. Yeah, you know, so it's very like uh psychedelic, it's very dreamy, very 60s, very 60s, 70s, and that sense, yes. But also at the same time, we were like making like deep house records as well. Like we made uh track with uh Roshim Murphy called Flash of Light, yeah, which basically was also like the beginning of Sebi's relationship with Roshim, who was still going on, yeah, man. Uh that's how they met, still happily together, and um that also went pretty well. It got remixed by Solomon and Tale of Us.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Yeah, big that was a big remix package, that was, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_04 20:16

Yeah, and they were nowhere near as big. I mean, Solomon was nowhere near as big as he is now. I remember like he was still running this club Eagle, yeah, and he invited me to play at the at the birthday. It was amazing. He was like such a cool DJ back then. I don't know, I maybe still I mean I'm sure it's still he's now I haven't heard any of his sets, but back then he was like super eclectic. I remember he was playing like David Bowie edits and disco to minimal to like really cool underground stuff, yeah. So the remix did did really well, the the Solomon remix and the Tale of Us one was cool as well. They then became huge after that as well.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Yeah, because uh just skipping around a little bit, but didn't you do some stuff with Mateo as well?

SPEAKER_04 21:07

Yeah, I mean we we used to hang out quite a lot in Berlin and and then in London. We were jamming a lot back then. Manfredi was still their manager and and wasn't even DJing. I mean it was DJing, he was DJing as a hobby, DJ tennis. Um and they were living in Berlin all together, and yeah, I was gonna go. I was going there to to to hang out and to jam. We made a lot of music, but none of it came out. Like we made one remix for uh Val. Yes, um Elios Sumner and uh it came out but it came out under my name. It came out under my name because I don't know. Like they had already by that point, like they had already. Moved to a different kind of sound, and I guess Mateo was like, Oh, this doesn't represent us anymore, but I mean you can totally hear that it is on it, yeah, the tale of us influence in this remix.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Yeah, for sure, for sure, man. And what about the formation of Infinity Inc. thing is like it's what I love about you is that, and you just touched on this yourself. There's so many different things that you've been involved in, and you were doing like solo stuff as well. But um, you know, like Infinity Inc. Remember, I did that post on the page a little while ago where I did all the different clips from your when you did that live thing at the Rebel Rave in Barcelona. People loved that, man. Like all the different tunes that you guys made together, like they're still like like now, they're just like classics, you know.

SPEAKER_04 22:50

Yeah, man. This is it's nice to hear that, to be honest. Yeah, I mean, no, that was all music that that was like made by friends hanging out, and that's the best thing about it. You know, there was no we're trying to do this, we're trying to do that, you know, we're trying to make a big tune, trying to make a hit. There was none of that. It's literally musicians, first and foremost, and friends jamming. Um me and Ali were jamming without you know, playing guitars before then, you know, and then suddenly we're jamming in the studio with synthesizers, it's absolutely no difference. And all of that music was made like that, you know. There was no no plan. It was in many ways the naivety of the whole process was like the the you know the main strength of it.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

The special sources they say.

SPEAKER_04 23:44

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

It sounds like it though, you can just hear in the music the not that it wasn't serious, but it was like there's fun, there's like fun and good energy coming through in the music, you know. You can just hear it, man.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

Yeah, but I mean it it's hard not to have fun when you're hanging out with Ali.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

That's true, that's true. That guy, he has literally I've had so many belly laughs through the things that he's like done or said, or like voices that he's done, or he's just he's just a walk-in fun factory man.

SPEAKER_04 24:19

Exactly. So, yeah, obviously the music you know reflects that for sure.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Big time, big time. So infinity is uh is quite an interesting thing to talk about because it ended up like being like a hit, like an actual commercial hit. Yeah, how did that happen?

SPEAKER_04 24:36

I have no idea. I mean how it happened in in reality was that we made the track in maybe like three hours on not much sleep, I believe, for fun in Ali's bedroom studio. And um I think I already had the beat which I made in my bedroom at the time, my first synth, which was a Juno 106, nice, and some samples for the drums, and we had the demo for a while, and Ali was he was visiting his girlfriend in New York, and somehow ended up in a hotel room with Damien Lazarus and played the demo to him. And I was in Ibiza in those days, I was there for some gigs and hanging out with Sebi who lived there, and I get a message on my phone from Damien Lazarus, who I didn't know at that point. Obviously, I knew who he was, I'd seen him around, but he never gave me the time of day. It's other direct, you know, sending me texts and stuff, going, Oh, I need that song, you know, that that song is a hit, blah blah blah. I was like, okay, that's cool. And didn't really think much of it, you know. Then somehow he ended up signing it, didn't come out for a while. He played it, he he rinsed it for like a few months, you know, and then and then built the hype, you know, made it sort of the track that only he had, and everybody wanted it kind of thing. And then eventually he released it, and you know, I did really well in a sort of underground scene, and um it got noticed by the major labels, and at that point, our manager Ed Cartwright basically made a deal happen with Warner Brothers, who ended up re-releasing it with like remixes by Scream and I can't remember who else. Clothes on Stroke, Cloth One Stroke, exactly, and then it became more like you know, global. There's an amazing remix by uh Todd Edwards, which I don't think it got the love it deserved. Yeah, absolutely genius that remix. Yeah, um so if anyone wants to go and check it out, I think it's like the best remix of that track.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

No, it's a tune, and also to add to that, House of Infinity is one of my I was talking to Johnny White from art department about this. He's like it's one of his favorite house tunes of all time. It is, yeah, and I I love it too, man, and I play it a lot. Like, if I play out, I'll always try and get it in the set. Man, I love that tune so much, and never hear anyone play it or talk about it.

SPEAKER_04 27:28

The house of infinity is the sort of like place you get to when when you smoke DNT and like it opens up and you're like in a big palace, you know, which is all made of gold and stuff. That's the house of infinity. That that's what that song is about. Amazing, yeah, amazing.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

I love that so much, man. Yeah, it's such a it's such a tune, man. Really, I really, really love it.

SPEAKER_04 27:52

Yeah, it is a good tune. Also, like quite an odd beat for a house tune, you know.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. A little bit breaky.

SPEAKER_04 28:02

Yeah, it's different. It's got like this weird, like UK garage, like speed garage, slow down speed garage, drum beat. That's kind of like that's because I had no idea what I was doing, you know. Like as a producer, I was like, Yeah, I like garage and I like house, I like deep house, but like I'm basically like a rock musician and doing putting it all this shit together, and like this is the sound that comes out, and you know, they called it deep house, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Yeah, definitely, man. Definitely. That's uh that definitely causes a lot of controversy, especially with like the kind of like older generation when people talk about 2010's deep house and they're like, No, that's not deep house, deep house is XYZ, and it's like, well, you know, let the younger people have that, it doesn't really matter, it's all just good music, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 28:54

At the end of the day, yeah, yeah, it's deep in the sense that you know it has melodies and like sort of chords and and vocals and stuff. In that sense, you know, that's what deep house is. You know, if you if you if you think about what what you know the the original deep house was there's emotion, there's emotion, yeah. Yeah, and it's I guess it like it gives people a feeling like big time main room house. You know, it's not party time like ends in the a house, it's got like a slower beat, in that sense it's similar, you know, it's got core progressions, it's got vocals, it's got you know evolving bass lines and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, in that sense, it is like it's deep house of the 2010, like deep house right now, it's something different, but it's still called deep outs.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

For sure. I love that description, man. It's it's actually really helpful to have uh an actual musician describe it like that because you know, like I've obviously like I'm involved in music, but to have someone who understands and has actually made that music describe it in that way gives it a lot more, like um validates it a lot more, I think.

SPEAKER_04 30:10

I guess so. Yeah, I mean, but for me, it's just just like you know, it's it's technical talk, you know. Yeah, for sure. Once you analyze the different genres and subgenres of music, you know, then you look at the elements that they have in common, you know, that this that's how I would describe Deep House.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Yeah, big time, man. Makes a lot of sense. So around this period, there's so much going on. So, say from like 2011 to 2013, there's just so much music being made, there's so many parties, and there's uh, you know, on the public side of things, there's a bit of an explosion in terms of the popularity of this music, and you're basically right in the middle of all of this with your crew, and like there's all this stuff going on. How does it develop from all of that stuff going on? The big kind of like underground hits, Infinity is becoming like a more of a commercial hit, but then the hot nature stuff starts happening as well.

SPEAKER_04 31:08

Yeah, everything happening at the same time. I guess when like you're a you're you know, you're a music producer or musician, and you start making a living out of music, then all you need to concentrate on is making music and playing gigs, you know. And if you don't sleep much, you have a lot of time to do both things, you know. So that's kind of what went on. That's why a lot of music was made back then. We were making music, and like you know, two people were making music together, there was a project, then someone else was making music with someone else, there was another, you know, another project, another another record, and friends were running labels, so you know, putting out the music on their friends' labels. It was like, you know, all happening like that. I guess that's what you you you would call a scene, you know, like uh a London scene at the time. It was um it was really cool. Hey, it was very like creative.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

And a lot of the key players were living in London or at least frequenting London as well.

SPEAKER_04 32:21

Yeah, yeah, it was London and and and United States, and there was a nice interchange between between artists from the States coming to London, hanging out with the UK guys, doing gigs together and and making music together, and then the UK guys going over there, and yeah, it was cool.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Jamie's house. Can we talk a little bit about that? That's where I yeah, that's where I first met you.

SPEAKER_04 32:47

Yeah, Clarence World. Not many people know that before Jamie moved there, Peaches Geldof lived there.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_04 32:58

So the first time I went there was way before I met Jamie and the guys. And I went there to hang out with Peaches, who was a friend and was a fan of my band and was coming to the gigs, and she was part of the indie scene in London. Yeah, lovely girl. Uh bless her, may she rest in peace. And and yeah, so I went to the house and I was like, wow, this isn't a really nice house, and three floors, it had like a sauna in the basement, and then yeah, no, went back like a few years later, and it was like Jamie and the lads living there. It was a cool place. I ended up staying there for a while as well when uh Lee was in the States for quite a long time. I remember like I was staying there and working in the studio in Jamie's studio with Kenny, who was also like living there on and off. And um, yeah, during that time, I think that's like sometimes I have a bit of a hard time, like you know, putting the the time frame, yeah, for sure. But I'm pretty sure it was during that time, you know, that that the hot nature, the first hot nature session, hot nature being hot natured with the four members because hot natured first was Jamie and Lee without myself and Ali. But I think that the the first sessions with the four of us started happening during that time uh when I was staying in the house.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

And how did you meet Jamie and Lee in the first place? I know you mentioned that Lee had discovered you, quote unquote, through hearing the Invisible Cities track, right?

SPEAKER_04 34:40

So yeah, so I met Jamie at Snowbombing. Oh, right, no way. I was there playing with Ali Love. I was DJing with Ali doing light boggles, right? We were doing this this thing that we kept doing for quite a few years, and um Ali already knew Jamie from going out in London from the parties and stuff, and I met him there.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Nice. What year was that?

SPEAKER_04 35:05

I want to say 2009, 2010.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

Right, okay, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 35:10

2010, I think it was.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Cool man. Wow, that's such a long time ago now. I I went to snowbombing the following year, 2011.

SPEAKER_04 35:19

It was one of the first, I think it was the second snowbombing.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

Nice. And so was it just the kind of a case of uh as things could be back then?

SPEAKER_04 35:30

You were just like kind of partying a hotel room, listening to music on like some like speakers and stuff, like talking, and you know, then I guess Ali brought me into one of the sessions, and that's it. And you know, they're like, oh, this you know, and that at that point, me and Ali had already like started Infinity Inc. and signed a track to Hot Creations at the same time called Games, which was our first release.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Yeah, really cool track as well, man.

SPEAKER_04 36:01

Thanks, man. Yeah, and then uh and then that's when I met Lee as well during that time.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

Nice one. Was was there a point where you guys had more of a kind of like formal kind of we are hot natured now kind of conversation? Because obviously it develops organically, but was there like a a point where you guys were just kind of like this is what we're doing now at the four of us?

SPEAKER_04 36:26

Yeah, I guess at one point, you know, I can't remember exactly, but I I think at one point Jamie was like, you know, shall we just do this with the four of us? kind of thing, you know, because they'd already done whole nature featuring Highly Love forward motion. And after that, I came in and then we started like working on Benediction and and what ended up being like the album uh that we worked the four of us together. I think at some point then Jamie was like, Well, you know, let's do it the four of us, and that's hot nature.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

How did Benediction come together? Because that is one of the most universally loved tracks songs of like that entire period.

SPEAKER_04 37:13

Yeah, Benediction. Okay, so it came Ali had this song that he wrote on keys, although he's not a keys player, he knows like always plays the same chords, right? With the on the white keys, and he had this chord progression, and he had it for ages, never did anything with it. And he actually did something recently again for the new Hot Nature stuff, like came in as like, Oh guys, I got this song, and it's like same chords, you know, different in you know, different secrets. And so he had this song, but it wasn't really a song, it was just an idea, you know. But they had the full the whole lyric, like the lyrics were written, and the chords were written and stuff, and somehow he never made it into a track or into a song. And he brought it to the studio, and we were the four of us were there at that point, and um I think Jamie made the beat for it and a bassine. I started making all the melodies and you know, chords, like adjusting the chords, and and we made the structure together, and that's it, you know. But it's like the core of the song is is an Ali song, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

It's just such a classic, man. Such a classic. Yeah, and um, you know, when uh Jamie did the the 2010s throwback set at his festival last August, man. That that I got I I got such powerful tingles when the whole crowd was just singing it along, man. And um, and Ali said to me afterwards, like, wow, that was a moment.

SPEAKER_04 39:03

Yeah, yeah, I saw the videos, it looked amazing.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

Yeah, must be you must feel so proud, not just for that dune in particular, which obviously you know does does a lot for people, but just just in general, man. You know, like when you mentioned the games just then, like I immediately just had like so many memories of hearing games for the first time and like hearing it in an art department set, and like all of that music that you know Macy or Plex was playing that song, believe it or not.

SPEAKER_04 39:29

Yeah, so you know that's that's to say, like, here's the the thing like those kind of DJs back then in the club, they weren't afraid to to play like that. These are songs that are like 118-120 bpm. Yeah, you know, like look at this that what that scene has become now, you know, and a lot of those same DJs, how they play now, very different, you know. But yeah, sorry. Yeah, no, no, this this is that music was played like in the clubs, yeah. You wouldn't think something like games. Maybe you hear it in a beach club or at an after party in someone's house. It's more like people would be like, Yeah, this is like kind of listening music. No, that was dancing music back then.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

Yeah, it's funny. Like, a quite quite a lot of people comment about that on the 2010s page as well, and often people will say, Well, you know, a lot of people doing K and like you know, drugs that kind of like almost um facilitated connection with music that was a bit slower.

SPEAKER_04 40:39

People do a lot of K now as well. Is that what now like people do speed because the music is faster? I don't think it's I don't think it's got any connection with it.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

It is um on just on that subject though, you know, like hedonism was obviously you know something that was very prevalent in that time, and you know, you can go back to the late 80s and talk about all of the explosion of ecstasy, etc. And that just carried on through the decades, and you know, the the 2000s were very hedonistic, and then the the early 2010s, and then even up to 2020s, and even today, you know, people are still going out and getting on it, and um I think sometimes we can see that people from our generation have gone sober and then they might reject substances or say, like, nah, it's not about that, but you can't deny that there's always throughout most of history been a connection between hedonism, substance taking, and music and creativity.

SPEAKER_04 41:38

Yeah, you can't deny that. I mean, I don't think that era was more hedonistic than this era or the previous one, maybe looked more hedonistic to us because you were in the middle of it and hedonists. I'm sure it's like, I mean, I I'm sober now, but I see what's going on. Like I still play, I still go to parties, and I don't see that much difference to be.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

Yeah, no, nothing, nothing, nothing has really changed, man. Um, I don't have any regrets, you know. I'm sober too. I don't have any regrets at all. You know, I had a lot of fun, a lot of experiences that made me the person that I am now in terms of opening my mind up, making me maybe more empathetic, maybe more in touch with my emotions, etc. You know, from psychedelics to more recreational dance floor type substances, like that the all of those things shaped me, you know, and made me who I am now. And I'm I I would never go back if I could and change any of that.

SPEAKER_04 42:37

No, no way. It's the experiences, you know, like whether they're you know, a lot of them are positive, some of them. I mean, talking for myself, a lot of them are positives, a lot of them weren't positive, but they're part of my history, they're they're part of who I am, and and they got me into where I am now. So, yeah, no regrets.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

So, going back to Hot Natureds, that also, you know, you mentioned the album that that also went stratospheric at one point. You know, you guys did uh Brixton Academy with like this whole amazing live show. How did all of that come about, you know, from those early studio sessions where you're just kind of organically hanging out and then you know, fast forward you're doing this. That show was really impressive as well.

SPEAKER_04 43:27

The music did most of it, but uh our manager Ed Cartwright, my good friend, he had the vision to bring it to the next step. He had the vision, he had the contacts, and he was working with us on all of that. And Brixton was our debut, and it was like a two days sold out event in Brixton Academy. It wasn't just Hot Nature played, it was Hot Nature was the main act, but then we had Tale of Us, we had all the Hot Creation crew playing gigs, and then we had the afters. It was a celebration of all of That scene and Hot Nature was the band of the scene, you know. Um so yeah, it was cool, man. I remember my parents came from Milan. Oh, watched the gig with Lee's parents and Jamie's family and Ali's parents, and wow.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

That's so cool, man. I love that. Yeah, I went to I can't remember if I went to the first or the second night, but I just I was just like, wow, this like you say, like this is a real celebration of everything that's going on right now. There's a couple that I met at Fuse about a year and a half ago, Kyla and Dave, and they they met there, and they're still together now.

SPEAKER_03 44:44

That's so cool.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

Yeah, how was that for you? Because you know, obviously, you had had a lot of experience of being on tour and being on stage and everything, and it's almost kind of like it kind of come back around for you in a way.

SPEAKER_04 44:56

Yeah, so I'd already been on that stage a couple of years before, playing keys with baby shambles and Shea McGowan from the pogs singing. It was like me, Pete, and Shea McGowan playing doing a cover of Dirty Old Town by the Pogues. It was interesting because it was like a totally different experience, even though it was only like three years previous to that, you know. Like now I'm like behind the scenes with like the the light up suit and like all these lights and a lot of kids going nuts, which was the same as at the baby shambles gig. Yeah, I guess the at the hot nature there was no like stage diving or anything like that, but you know, the energy was there. Yeah, it was amazing. Yeah, what can I say? I think we had a couple of technical issues with uh with the jackets, they were like controlled by distance, like and they were lighting up in different ways depending on the tracks, right? Pretty cool, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

What was it like for you being involved in all of that in terms of what it did for your creativity? Because you know, you you've mentioned that um some of the music that you made was just kind of naively, you know, making a patchwork almost of your influences. But how was it for you as things developed? Did you find that you were having a a maybe a better idea about how you were going to achieve the sounds that you wanted to achieve?

SPEAKER_04 46:28

Or was it still kind of like I was like learning to be a producer back then, you know? I was a musician learning to produce electronic music first by watching Sebi, who basically is a person that I learned everything I know from when it comes to producing electricity. Okay, so I I studied sound engineering at SAE London before that. All the stuff to do with like electronic music and producing like beats, I didn't learn that. There, I learned how to record rock bands, how to make up uh guitars and work on an analog desk, tape machines. It was very old school back then. Yeah, like I learned how to be a sound engineer in that sense. I didn't learn any like music software, or I mean, there was stuff about them, but I was really like not very good at it. I was in a band, and and for me, learning sound engineering was having the chance to record my band at the time for free in a six studio at ICE College in London on a NEV desk, SSL desks, all that kind of stuff. So, in terms of like making and producing electronic music, by the time Hot Nature was happening, I'd only been doing it for like two or three years, so I was still very naive. So that's why the music also was naive. And what happened after that is that I got more and more into production and you know, learned more and more like the technical side and developed my way of making beats and structuring club tracks and stuff like that, and then yeah, I started making and releasing uh solo music after that.

SPEAKER_01 48:08

Yeah, man, I was just about to get onto that, so you just beat beat me to it there, but yeah, man, like you then then you were doing stuff just under Luca C and then a little bit later on Luca Cazal, right?

SPEAKER_04 48:23

Yeah, when Luca Kazal did my first uh my first TP was on Cross Sound Rebels, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01 48:31

Was that Mariri?

SPEAKER_04 48:32

It was called Marire. Yeah, it was like sampling um a shaman that I recorded in in the Peruvian Amazon, um, which is a whole other chapter of my story, which I really need a whole podcast. Uh but yeah, I was spending a lot of time in Peru at that time, and and I was very much influenced by you know the the ayahuasca experience and and the psychedelic uh culture of of the Peruvian Amazon. So I was like recording a lot of like sounds and chants and songs from that, and I don't know, looking back, some of those experiments adding that to beats was I don't know, some of it was okay, some of it was a little bit. I wouldn't do it again, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 49:23

But that that's I actually remember speaking to you at the time, and you were like, I'm only gonna do like one or two of these because I don't feel like that great. It wasn't that you didn't feel that great about it, but you were kind of like, I think one or two is enough. Yeah, there was also the the track with Ali uh Aya as well, right? Yeah, which I really like a lot.

SPEAKER_04 49:43

Yeah, it's a good one, yeah. And um I did, I think I did like we like using samples from the Amazon and and from the from the ceremonies, I did two tracks like that, and that was enough. But then, like obviously, the influence that those experiences had on me was so huge, you know. And on Ali as well. Ali also came to Peru. So, you know, they definitely influenced the way we made music in different ways. But in terms of utilizing the the stuff that was recorded, then that's it, you know. Like I had big ideas of making albums and doing things with it, but in the end, I was just like, you know what? No, no, because I don't know, I'm sort of appropriation of something that that sort of needs to be where it is, you know. Yeah, it needs to stay there.

SPEAKER_01 50:34

Yeah, totally hear you on that mode. Yeah, so you you played DC 10. There's that uh tune that you made with uh is it blank spaces memory man?

SPEAKER_04 50:45

No, it's the B side of uh of the crosstown Rebel uh VP.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

I used to play that so much, man. I remember playing it at I played it at Jaded at Corsica, and it just went off.

SPEAKER_04 50:57

Oh, really? That's a pretty deep track. That's my friend Dan uh Gallagher, who was the guitarist in Kazell.

SPEAKER_01 51:04

Ah, nice, no way.

SPEAKER_04 51:06

Yeah, he's uh incredible, incredible guitarist, and he's the nephew of Ori Gallagher, the famous Irish guitarist from the 70s, right? And he after the band split, he started making music by himself under the name Blank Spaces, right? Really good out there, guitar music. He's he's a virtuoso of the guitar. Nice, nice, and um that was a remix of one of his tracks, but in the end, I was like, why don't we just put it out as like not a remix but a track itself, so it was perfect for jaded because I was playing in room two, which was like the the the deep room.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

So you know I can't I can't remember what time my set was, maybe like eight till twelve. And I remember playing it about halfway through the set, so you know, like people were ready for the especially because the intro is just like so like it just gets you, man, gets you in a trance. So um, yeah, and also um you did a tune with Citizen as well.

SPEAKER_04 52:05

Oh fuck, I forgot about that one, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:07

Yeah, I used to play that a lot as well, man.

SPEAKER_04 52:10

Whatever happened to Citizen, he was such a good producer.

SPEAKER_01 52:13

I don't know, man. Lawrence, where are you, man?

SPEAKER_03 52:15

Lawrence, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:17

Yeah, I haven't seen him for a while.

SPEAKER_03 52:19

What a cool movie, man.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

Yeah, so like you know, in in terms of the the solo stuff, it feels like there was a period where that was pretty much your main thing, and like I said, you you played the the terrace at DC 10 quite a few times, right?

SPEAKER_04 52:34

Yeah, I mean I like I was resident in DC 10 for quite a few years, first for Paradise, then for Circo Local and Paradise at the same time, and in the end just for Circo Loco because I moved to Ibisa during that time as well. Well, towards I moved to Ibisa in like 2016, I left London, but yeah, that's when like my I started really releasing stuff more with my with my solo project. Having said that, Infinity Inc. got signed for an album, I think around 2016, we started recording it on Pias Records. Yeah, and we recorded the whole album, and then somehow things changed at the label, our AR wasn't working there anymore. But cut the story short, we got dropped and then got another record deal for the album uh with Armada, the Dutch. And so the Infinity Inc. album ended up coming out in 2018-2019. It's called House of Infinity. But throughout all that period, I was putting records out by myself as Luca Casal. I did uh an EP on Classic Records, Luke Solomon's label. I was touring uh by myself. I had my I had a label with Brigante called Double Drop and C Double for like the club stuff. We released Josh Baker's first EP. Nice now blowing up, Josh. And yeah, Boris Werner as well. Like uh we released a bunch of cool stuff back then.

SPEAKER_01 54:18

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_04 54:18

More kind of like clubby stuff. What happened in that period is that the sound of let's call it deep house. That sound turned into what is now called tech house, okay? Which is like neither of them are what their name say they are, like deep house, tech hours. It's like kind of like the tech house guys from the late 90s, early 2000s would tell you that that tech house is not tech house, right? Yeah, same way as the deep house, you know. Yeah, uh, but anyway, that that sound came about. A lot of the producers and DJs that were making that sort of slower stuff started making strictly main room music with a lot of build-ups and drops and effects, and yeah, that sound went huge. Yeah, I'd say, in a way, like even bigger than the previous one. The shows became bigger and festivals, you know. Obviously, it's like a really pumping kind of sound, and worked at festivals and all that kind of stuff. I didn't really fit into that, even though all the people that I came up with moved to that sort of sound.

SPEAKER_01 55:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 55:39

I I sort of tried it in my own way at first, but then it wasn't really for me. I didn't feel it. So I gradually started moving away from from that scene, you know, and and from the the artists and producers that I was coming up with. And I started on one hand, like rediscovering my roots in Italo and 80s music.

SPEAKER_01 56:08

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_04 56:09

And on the other hand, like getting deeper into like more underground house and electro sounds, and buying a lot of vinyl, starting to to play vinyl out at the gigs as well, and kind of gradually like brought me to where I am now. The last project that I've been releasing with and touring with is LVCA, pronounced Luca, which is my name. Yeah, and and started just before COVID in like 2018-19. And um I guess like it's quite far removed from everything that happened before, but at the same time, is my personal experience and you know, for me as an artist is is also very much related with the very beginning of the music that I was making.

SPEAKER_02 56:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:58

I mean, yeah, it's just seen from a different perspective. But like while the scene that I was part of ended up becoming something to me very different from what it was, like I ended up finding myself back at the beginning of everything, you know, uh making like sort of like very melodic and emotional music and using a lot of synths, and then pushing it more and more towards a sort of underground way of doing things, you know, releasing vinyl only and playing a certain type of parties, you know, because that type of music is you know is fit for those kind of parties and not for the other ones.

SPEAKER_01 57:45

Along the way, you seem to have I might be wrong because I'm just you know, this is just my outside observation. You seem to have kind of found your space at kind of like every step of the journey, you know. It doesn't seem like at the moment, it doesn't seem like you're lost. You've kind of found your space to work within, and then like prior to that, you know, it seems like you've always kind of found a home for what you're making and and a and a scene that's sort of like well, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:14

I guess like I've always made like artistic decisions and and I've always like followed my instinct in terms of making the music that I wanted to make. If I'm making music, I need to make something that like it fills mine, you know. And the music I make has always been dictated by the music that I buy as a as a DJ and and that I dig and that I play and that I want to hear in the club. You know, so a lot of the time that has nothing to do with what's big in the moment, yeah, man. You know, scene in which have a scene, and what happens is I discover something for whatever reason and I get obsessive with it, and then I want to make it. You know, I want to make my own version of it, and like all this influence then start like coming together, and suddenly that's like this is what I'm doing now, and then I I develop that sound and see where it fits and roll with it.

SPEAKER_01 59:12

It's good. You know, I think these days, especially with the way that not just social media, but you know, the music business, quote unquote, is is kind of um presented to people, especially new generation artists. There's all this stuff about business and strategy and like marketing and PR and all this kind of stuff that younger artists especially are almost kind of like expected to know and embrace as as part of their whole like creative output. But there's something to be said for just doing your thing, okay, being aware of those things because they are kind of like a necessity. But trying to just kind of like stay in this like more creative uh doing your own thing, pleasing yourself and not forcing yourself to be part of a system or a machine.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:02

Yeah. Yeah, when I mean that's a very big topic. I guess it depends on on the artist, on on the individual artist. And it depends on which scene we're talking about, and and how you want to do things. For sure, if your goal is to become a big DJ, you know, and let's say let's call let's call it like the tech the modern tech house scene, uh you need to be doing all of that stuff just as much, if not more, than the music. Yeah, you need to be thinking about your social media, your posts, your uh strategy, yeah, you know, the visual aspect of who you are as an artist and the way you promote yourself just as much or even more than the music that you're making. But uh there is a very big and very healthy, not saying that that's unhealthy, but there's a very big and very healthy other scene or scenes, which also utilized some kind of strategies and and and some forms of use of social media, but it's way less and everything is way more focused on the research of the records, on the work in the studio, and building like a certain vision musically, way before all of the other stuff. Totally different concepts.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:27

Yeah, big time.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:28

Sometimes, you know, there are instances in which, and I love when that happens, when an artist starts that way, the the second way that I described, and then because of that, the profile gets bigger, and then you know, and starts sort of entering the other realm. And some people do it uh in in a cool way with a lot of integrity, without selling out, without doing anything overly cringe on social media and all of that kind of stuff, and it works, and it's nice to know that those kind of people are still rewarded with yeah, for sure, and deserve all of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:05

For sure. Hey, on the on the subject of Josh Baker, he he posts on LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:10

He posts on LinkedIn, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:12

He's actually on LinkedIn posting about you and me and Simfo and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:17

And I'm like Josh Baker is he's one of those people that did exactly what I just said. Yeah, Josh is a digger, he plays vinyl, you know. He had a party in Manchester where anyone from Francesco Delgada to Quest to all of these underground guys played the ghost, Gene on Earth, you know, he's an underground guy first and foremost. He had the vision to do other things as well as that, and to kind of branch into a million other things, and he's where he's now.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:48

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:48

He came from from the right place, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:52

Tell me, are you allowed to talk much about forthcoming hot nature stuff? Is there is there much to talk about at this stage?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:01

Yeah, like we've been working on some new material for the last year or so. There's some stuff that's almost ready to go, and there's a lot of really good ideas that we are still developing. The music is really cool, it's really cool to be back in the studio with the guys, and everything is just basically just the same as it was back then, except that like everyone is sober now. But yeah, it's it's cool, man. And I'm going actually, we're going to Bali in May uh to do another three weeks uh recording with the guys. Yeah, it's exciting.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:42

Yeah, man, it's exciting for all of us as well, man. Very much so. Looking back over that um early 2010s period, especially, is there anything, any experiences that stand out as like highlights, you know, moments where you're just like, wow, man, this is what I could all I could have dreamed of, or this is something that I won't ever forget, or this is like you know, I'm gonna look back on this in a few years' time and still kind of feel like wow, that was that was a time or an experience where you know a lot of those, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:16

Wow, of course. I mean so many moments like that. Brickstone, for example, headlining the dance stage at Glastonbury, that was amazing. Playing in DC 10 for the first time, that was amazing. That video like just resurfaced no longer ago. Lovebox. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was pretty nuts. The warehouse project, first time playing there in the main room. It was huge, I couldn't believe it. And like we played Infinite, and like that was like the when people used to kind of like still get surprised about so many phones in the crowd, like you see all the lights.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:04

Oh yeah, right, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:06

Wow, this looks amazing. Now everyone hates it, right? You know, but like I remember that it it was huge. What else? Yeah, so many things like that. Like going going to the Warner Brothers offices and sign the contract for for Hot Nature, and then on the same day going downstairs and signing the contract for Infinity Inc. Wow, wow, yeah, that was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:36

Jeez, man. Yeah, that is very cool. Very cool. Um Infinity went to number one in Belgium, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:45

Yeah. And then you know, like that there's been over the years quite a few uh remakes, remixes, Covers, samples, and stuff of infinity, and there was one in 2021, I think, that was huge, like way bigger than the original. Like it went like double platinum in France, and it's got like 400 million plays on YouTube. I don't know how many millions on Spotify, it's huge, but it's basically like the track with like a heavier, kind of more PDM beat. Right. Wow. Didn't know about that. Then there's an Italian version of there's like this Italian pop band who sampled the bass line and went like top 10 in Italy. Like the track really like took a life of its own over the years.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:46

I remember hearing it for the first time at WMC when um you guys did uh get lost.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:53

Oh wow, that was another moment. That was the first time in Miami.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:59

Oh, was that your first time? Wow, yeah, that was sick, man. And uh you uh there's that picture that I sent you not long ago of you, uh Jamie and Lee playing at this kind of like um in this like villa thing as well.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:14

You don't remember at all, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:18

So last couple of questions, yes. Going sober, what was the trigger behind that? And and how did you kind of navigate your way to where you're up to now?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:29

Wow, that's another one that probably requires a whole podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:34

Such a big process, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:36

It's a big process, it's something that had been brewing for quite a few years before it actually happened. You know, I guess a lot of the psychedelic experience helped forming that that idea in my mind. And I could say that I tried to do it before, and and you know, those experiences definitely helped understanding that it needed to be done, but somehow like I was going back to the hedonism and party lifestyle, and and kind of like it got to a point where doing those experiences and doing the other stuff at the same time didn't make sense anymore. And so I left all the stuff to do with uh with Peru and the Amazon behind, and I went fully into my work and and you know the touring and all that kind of stuff, and with that came obviously abuse of substances and and my body and everything else, you know. So it got to a point where like you reach rock bottom with things, it's like suddenly you're like, okay, and it needs to be done, you know, and that happened uh during COVID. Like COVID hit, you know, I was uh in Ibiza in my house. My girlfriend was stuck in in Canada, she couldn't travel, so I was alone. Yeah, all my gigs, all my tours were like cancelled. Me being in the situation I was in at the time, I kind of like went pretty deep into using, and I just got to a point where I was just like, What am I doing? Yeah, like a moment of clarity. Now I don't have the excuse of departing, I don't have the excuse of touring. I have the opportunity to really look at myself and you know to sort of make a change in that I've tried to do before. Yeah, and you know, I didn't do it alone. I reached out and I started the process of recovery, which you know it's it's been going on to now. You know, it's one day at a time and it's it's work, it's something that you've got to do it constantly, at least for me. I have to be vigilant, I have to stay in touch with that part of me that keeps me clean and also help others do the same, yeah, which is a huge part of it, and and that's it, man. Like, you know, I I can safely say it's the best choice I've made in my adult life. Also, giving up cigarettes is a pretty big one for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:23

Yeah, you know what? When when you mentioned that the other day, I was like, oh my god, like it's I personally think that that was the most difficult one for me. And I I I'm gonna be honest, I'll still have like the odd cigarette when I go out partying, I'll go to the smoking area and I'll I'll ponce one off someone, right? But it's not like I smoke every day, but that was so difficult to I was a hardcore smoker though, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:49

Like I was smoking every day, and like at the weekend, I was smoking like insane amounts. Both of those big changes, the days that I decide you know, no more with both things, on both of those days, I did Cambo ceremonies.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:05

No way, wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:07

Yes, that medicine for me was like a huge help in in doing these big resets. And you know, I'm forever grateful to to that medicine for for helping me with this. Obviously, then you have to do the work afterwards, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:22

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:23

For me, that was uh you know, that was a big thing, like even not smoking one year now. I don't know, I don't know how you can you can go to the smoking era, like it makes me feel sick, just smelling it.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:37

Yeah, I bet, I bet. I don't know, man. And if and I'm sober, I've I said this to someone the other day, and they were like, the only time I have a cigarette is when I drink, and they're like, How can you have a cigarette when you're sober? It tastes horrible.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:46

But I'm just like you drink you drink alcohol.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:50

No, no, not nothing for like just over seven years now.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:54

They say when okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:56

Um, but you know, well done, man. It's uh as you said, it's it's really not an easy thing to do, and even if you have these uh big experiences, whether it's like Cambo or ayahuasca or you know, whatever it is, they might be the trigger or the catalyst, but it's still up to you to take ownership of yourself and and manage your yourself.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:18

A lot of it is up to you, and a lot of it, whether you believe it or not, is up to like you know, I believe a higher power.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:26

Like there was a quote that I came across uh a couple of years ago, which was you're only as disciplined as your last decision, and I was like, Oh my god, that is absolutely you know, because you can spend all day long going, Yeah, I'm disciplined, I'm disciplined, but as soon as you make that decision to not be disciplined, you're not disciplined anymore.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:46

Yeah, so true. Discipline is like it's an interesting concept because if you get to a point where you enjoy discipline, you know, you you you see the the results of your discipline and you start enjoying them, then being disciplined becomes almost addictive, but it's like a healthy addiction, you know what I mean? Yeah, but then also like uh at first it's like that, and then when you're like very disciplined for a long time, that also starts kind of like not being as easy, you know. So at the moment I feel like pretty disciplined with most things, and some stuff I'm still working on, like yeah, I think like we live in a world where like in some way or another we're all addicted to something, yes, for sure. And it's work. Like if you really want to get a handle on it, uh you know, you gotta work on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:46

Absolutely. So just uh last thing I wanted to ask you. This is I ask everybody this question. The page surprised me with how much it kind of blew up and resonated with people, which is silly, really, because like you know, I for when I think about how much fun I had and how many people I met and how many people were going out and and enjoying the music and listening to the music. Of course, lots of people out there now, 15 or so years later, are gonna be like, Wow, that was such an amazing time, and they're gonna be like buzzing with nostalgia. From your own perspective of you know, having lived through that time, why do you think it resonates with people so much? You know, the page is so positive. There's barely ever been a time where there's been like a negative response to any of the posts that I've been that I've put up, which is rare for the social media, really. You know, when you think about it. Yeah, why why do you think it's impacted people like that?

SPEAKER_04 1:14:41

Well, I think like, okay, I think a lot of it is people in our age group being nostalgic about times where like they had less responsibilities, they were like doing things and enjoying their lives in in a way that a lot of the times now they can't do anymore, or they they enjoy life in different ways. Let's say I think that's a big part of the people that feel nostalgic about that time, you know. And I'm sure like 20, 25 years old of now, in 15, 20 years will be nostalgic of now, you know. On the other hand, I think what I sort of mentioned a little bit before, the naivety of what was happening and the sort of like spirit which people were doing things, especially in the beginning, was so like natural and like positive in many ways and uncorrupted by external sources. I mean, at least in my experience, you know, for others. People relate to that because it's something that is human, yeah. It feels real at a time where a lot of stuff is very like premeditated and in a way forced, something that is genuine and real and and natural feels very appealing, you know, because it touches you at a human level, yeah. And then and the music, and the music is also a reflection of that, I think. Big time. There's cool music. I I can't help but but analyzing it from a technical point of view these days, and like listening to it, and be like, oh my god, you know, like I can't believe those drums sound like that that I made, or like this mix is all over the place, and like how the fuck did I put this out, all of that kind of stuff. But at the same time, I also like see the the beauty of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:44

Thanks for articulating it like that, man. I really um yeah, that you you really put into words what is I think a lot of people feel, and you did it really well, man. So thanks, and thanks for taking the time to chat to me for the last hour and a bit, man. It's been a pleasure to hear more about your story. Of course, I knew a lot of it already myself, but to go deeper into it and to share it with however many people are gonna listen is um yeah, real honor, man. So thanks a lot.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:12

Thank you, man. It was like uh it was fun to do it, and I haven't really talked about any of this stuff that much, you know, to anybody. Of course, sometimes when I meet up with old friends, we've but like like this in depth, yeah. First time in a long time, if not ever. I hope I got my timelines right. A lot of the memories are a little bit confused, but whatever. You know, I get I guess you get the general idea of everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:41

Yeah, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it was perfect.