Episode 5: Noir

Noir was a highly influential and active figure in the early 2010s (and beyond). I'm so grateful the Danish artist honoured me with his presence for this latest episode of the 2010s Rave Archives podcast.

In an exclusive, and rare, audio interview Noir talks me through some of the pivotal moments during that golden period, reflecting on his experiences pre-2010s before getting right into the nitty gritty. 

From his now-classic track 'Around' (with Haze) and Solomun's timeless remix, to his label Noir Music, the legendary podcast Noir Recommends and his global touring, Noir was the catalyst behind a lot of great musical moments in the 2010s. 

He championed a lot of artists who defined the era; Hot Since 82, Larse, Nice7, Finnebassen... and his hard work, creativity and vision were crucial to the evolution of the music scene back then.

He also speaks candidly about hitting a low point during the pandemic, logging off social media and experiencing panic attacks with all the madness of global touring catching up with him. 

A humble, yet successful and very inspiring character, it was a joy to have Noir on the podcast. Hit play and enjoy this one!

Enjoy and sign up to the mailing list for early listens and extra treats --> https://form.jotform.com/253575864906370

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey everybody, welcome along to the 2010s Rave Archives podcasts. I've got a very special guest with me here today, who uh just told me he hasn't done very many of these, so I'm really pleased that he's joining me. I'm very honoured. I've got Noir here with me.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Yeah, I was basically waiting for you to get in touch. I've been holding back just to uh talk my shit with you.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Cheers, dudes. How are you doing today, man?

SPEAKER_00 0:25

I'm fine, I'm fine. Everything's cool. We are still snowed in in Denmark, it's a lot of snow here, so it's cold as well. But other than that, I'm uh feeling pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Well, you look like you're in quite a nice warm space there.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Yeah, this is uh the studio space. It's always actually if we could hold hands right now, you'd feel they were cold, but no way. Unfortunately, we can't.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Ah, bless man, we'll have to do that in real life at some point. So you were somebody who was very instrumental in the 2010s period, I would say. A lot of people on my page mention Noir Recommends the podcast, which was very important for a lot of people for being introduced to new music, but also as an individual, as a producer, you made a lot of music that was influential. Your label was I played so much stuff from your label, man, you know, and there were so many great tracks that were released on that label through the compilations and individually. So it's really interesting to have you here in front of me and to be able to kind of delve into you know that that period and and what you're about because we haven't actually spoken before, and that's for me, that's quite rare because there's so many people from that time because I was so involved in that time who I interviewed or hung out with or you know spent time with. But this is actually a a first for me. So I'm I'm really excited to kind of get to know you more.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Thank you. Well, yeah, it was a it was a great period, and uh I just followed whatever happened back then and traveled toward the world and uh enjoyed the success that hit noir music and and even my like you say, my podcast was uh quite popular.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Yeah, yeah, very so before the 2010s, what was going on for you? Because I I'm guessing you were you're involved in music before the 2010s, it wasn't like you just appeared from 2010 onwards. So can you talk to me a little bit about what was going on, you know, in the 2000s and what you were doing and kind of building your label and your your artistry?

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Yeah, so my label was founded late in the uh 2000s, that was 2007, and I basically started the label because I was um well, I was getting uh a little bit frustrated with music I was sent that was unreleased, they wanted me to play in DJ sets and stuff, and it wasn't released, and I kind of wanted to release that music that I felt was really good, and also I bought a website called uh or the domain called noirmusic.com. So I I always had the idea to do a label, I just waited for the right time. I started producing music in 1996. Wow, and I was a DJ before that, so I started DJing uh way before that. But yeah, it took me some time to break through. My first international release was basically in 2005 on uh Grant Nelson. Do you remember him? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Legend. He had uh he his label Swing City, and uh then he um did a second label, a more underground label called Wise Recordings, and that's where I released all about house music. And luckily for me, that was picked up by Pete Tung and the boss chart that was really popular on Radio One back then, and it debuted on number three or something like that. So that was my step into the world in 2005, and then I went on to release on house labels like Tool Room and later on uh defected as well, but yeah, other than that, I was just a DJ, you know, and a and a producer, but but I started as a DJ, I started falling in love with the culture and the clubs and being a DJ, and I just I DJed my whole life basically from I was 16 till now, and um that introduces you to produce music. I always wanted to produce music, but I was a DJ first. So from the get-go, I was producing club music, I wasn't producing anything else or really experimenting, I knew what I wanted.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Yeah, good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

That was what happened before the 2010s. That was just me preparing for things to kind of take off.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Yeah, for sure. Did did you have I guess it's kind of might be difficult to say, but could you see that things were moving towards perhaps a point in your life in your DJ career where things would really start to you become more popular? Could you could you feel that things were moving in that way, or was it just kind of like you were taking things as they come and then all of a sudden the 2010s happened?

SPEAKER_00 5:18

I think I just kind of followed the scene. So I've always been into the more melancholic stuff. Uh in my teens I grew up with the pech mode, Pauly's head, massive attack, you know, things that were a little more melancholic and dark, let's say that. I'm from Scandinavia, which also is a you know, it has like a melancholic feel to it. So at the end of the 20s, music and the whole scene clopping scene just started to fall into place to suit me really well because it started to be more melancholic. The there was a minimal period where Richie Horton was a big part of that, and on the backbone of that, I feel that some of the minimalism was kept in house music, and they started still sampling vocals from the 70s and the 80s, disco soul, RB vocals. They started to pitch them down, and instead of regular house music, the generic receipt of house music, they started making it was inspired by the minimal period for sure, because it was more minimalistic, less hi-hats, it was more moody. There was a vocal and maybe a lead, but it was all about bassline and drums, and but I I feel kind of minimalistic still, and then the melancholy in in the music was what fell into place for me, and what played to my strengths with my taste in music and uh what noir music would become. That was exactly what I really liked. So when that wave, when the scene just evolved into that, I was already in that space, so like I say it kind of played into my hands, and I just let things happen, and I I follow that stream of the music that I really liked.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Brilliant, man. Just before we get into that a little bit more, I just wanted to ask you. I'm really curious about what it was like in in Denmark and how much of a scene there was, and what it was like for you kind of operating locally or nationally, as opposed to how things were globally. Like I don't know a lot about Denmark and what was going on there. So would you mind just talking a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Of course. So in Denmark, there's only five million people. Well, now we are probably closer to six million, but the scene was always really small and basically only booming in Copenhagen. There was both a house and a techno scene. So because the scene was so small, there were not many parties, there were not many clubs in Denmark playing house and techno when I got into it. So when we did parties, we had to do them weekdays in the discotheques that were playing pop music during the weekends. So we would do parties on Wednesdays and Thursdays and lure people out to these underground parties. But all that also started booming during the 2000s because radio stations in Denmark, the national radio stations, started picking up on it, and they had a house and trans radio show running on Fridays, and they had a techno and deep house show running on Saturdays.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

And they spread the word really well, and that created more um interest in the genres, and obviously on the backbone of that, more parties was created, and uh more people fell in love with this culture. And that also gave me the chance to do something in Alborg. I'm from the northern part of Denmark, the opposite of Copenhagen, really.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

And uh it gave me a chance to start something in Alberg, and it became popular slowly but really steadily, and became a big thing where we would have big acts like Dead Mouse and Chris Lake, Funk Agenda, and um people would travel from even from Europe, from the UK and Germany, and obviously from Copenhagen to see these acts. And yeah, it was that was really cool. So I think to go back to what you asked, so the scene was really small in Denmark, but it grew with the international scene because there was internet, so people started seeing what was happening around the world, and um they was they were also really good at inviting DJs uh from different countries to Copenhagen. Copenhagen had a especially a club called Culture Box, which was really good at inviting interesting DJs in different genres of house and techno.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Yep. Amazing, man. Amazing. So I'm so pleased that I'm chatting to you because I I honestly have really didn't have much of a clue about what was going on in Denmark at all. And I feel a bit embarrassed because you know I work in music and it's something that I I take pride in knowing what's going on in the world, but Denmark would never really seem to be on my radar.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

No, it is a small country, but good music comes out of this country, good DJs come out of this country. But when I started traveling around the world to the UK, even just to Amsterdam, it was a whole new experience, a whole new world. You know, they are more open-minded, they like to explore more in these countries, Germany as well, which is close to Denmark. So that was a blessing when my DJ career started to kick off, and I I got to play other countries. That was a real eye-opener for me. And obviously, I took that back home as well and implemented in what would become noir music and the parties that I created in Alborg and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Brilliant, man. So going back to this kind of melancholy and minimalism that was, I guess, combining and merging around the late 2000s, going into the 2010s, were there any particular artists or labels or tracks that really inspired you or opened your ears and eyes to this kind of new style that was coming through and made you kind of go, right, this is something that is really you know what I'm about, and I I can take inspiration from this.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Yeah, yeah, of course. I I really liked like uh the early stuff that Steven Batson did. I know that was maybe more techno, but what he did with Alone and with Mark Rombo, Oliver Hunterman. I like Steve Buck and what he was doing on Poker Flat. Um, John Tiada, I really liked his stuff. Um Guy Gerber, um Dusty Kid, Aril Bricke. Do you know him? He did some Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

He's from Sweden.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Yeah, he did some amazing tracks and remixes. One of my favorite remixes are his remix of Drone's iCling.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Yes, uh I just bought that a few weeks ago.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

Oh, on vinyl.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Uh no, just the just the digital for now, but um get the vinyl as well. I'd like he's one of my favorite, favorite artists. He does really great live shows, his albums are just fantastic, and yeah, he's he's a real one of my top techno guys because it's just amazing what he does.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

I love his music. Yeah, it's it's amazing. That that record is one of my all-time favorites, that remix. And I I every time I played that track in the club, people would be like, What the fuck? Freak, sorry, is that they would uh look at the CDJs, and uh I had to purchase that uh vinyl record later in life, like maybe five or six years ago, because I didn't have it, that was the digital age that also took over, like in the in the 20s and 2010s. Um, so I didn't buy it at the time, I just played the the digital file, and uh I'm a vinyl uh collector, so I had to have it on so I went to Discord's and found a way to get it in my hands.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Nice one.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Yeah, um, yeah, those were the um again, it it was the the artist with melancholy attached to their sound, and in in Denmark there was Trender Miller, yeah. He was a big inspiration too. Like you say, D Tron was I guess we move into the 2010s now because then I started getting really inspired by Tale of Us, what they did. Matthew Johnson, Dixon, Massieu Plex, Solomon, of course. Yeah, he was a great inspiration too, and I really liked what he was doing, also with his dynamic label.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Um was a great inspiration. I loved that stuff. They that was the the perfect example of that melancholy and the minimalism, they they mastered that perfectly.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Yeah, so much emotion in the music, and I I'm not a producer, so I don't understand the technical side of things that much. But sometimes I can listen to music and I can tell that there aren't very many tracks or layers within the piece of music, but what they've done within those layers is just so brilliant that it doesn't need that much, you know. There's a simplicity to it, but that's what gives it its depth.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

Yeah, yeah, that a hundred percent, and that's what I meant when I talked minimalism. All of a sudden, they in the late 2000s these records emerged where there weren't many elements, they weren't stacked with hi-hats and rides anymore. It was all about the feeling and the emotion, and there would be vocals sitting on top, maybe just a hook, or maybe it was a song, but the human element was all of a sudden important again, and it was actually the reason why I decided to do uh the track around with Haze. Oh, no way, was because I felt the need to work with vocals again, to do songs again, and that was the wave that came through uh in the late 20s and carried on into the 2010s.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Amazing man. So when when did you feel like things were really starting to progress for you and you were becoming more of a presence internationally?

SPEAKER_00 16:27

I had the presence after the uh releases on Wise Recordings and Tour Room. I was already back then also in in touch with Simon Dunmar on Defected. I went to all the um conventions like Miami Winter Music Conference, Amsterdam Dance Event, Sona in Barcelona. So I felt part of the scene and I did smaller gigs at these conventions. I played around the world, but uh when all played into my hands, the music was really to my taste in the late uh 2000s and early 2010s, that's how you say it, right? Yeah. When when it started playing into my hands, that's when it started exploding because it gave me ideas, it gave me an idea for a clear direction for noir music, my label. It gave me an idea to start the podcast Noir recommends because I wanted to share the music. It was really important for me to let people out there discover the music I felt was so amazing. And when I played the gigs, they were always where do you find this music? Oh, I don't I didn't know this track, that's amazing. So I started the podcast because I wanted to share my taste in music, and I uh basically wanted to share the music that I loved, and then the Solomon remix of Around happened, and the combination of noir music, me being a decent DJ, I would say, uh the Solomon remix taking off, and my podcast Noir Recommends that just made things take off in a way that I could never have imagined, and it made me be fortunate to travel around the entire globe and just see different cultures and things shifting in the music scene, and uh I was really happy to be part of that period.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

Yeah, it was a special time, man, really special time. Your podcast has been mentioned by a lot of people on the 2010s page. People have messaged me in my DMs and stuff, and yeah, it had a a big impact on a lot of people, and I think a lot of people out there would be very grateful to you for the facts that you were doing that because it was a key source of music for me and for lots of other people out there, whether they were DJs or people that just you know enjoyed the music full stop. Would you mind just talking a little bit more about that and like how you curated the music and were you getting direct feedback at the time from people saying this means a lot to me? You know, how was it for you?

SPEAKER_00 19:15

First of all, thank you. Um have you listened to the podcasts? It the fact that you you tell me that a lot of people have written about the podcast surprises me. I knew it was popular, but I I didn't know it had that impact. I didn't know, especially not at the time. I did meet people when I traveled and played my gigs around the world, and they would often talk more about my podcast than my actual music, which I didn't really think about it, to be honest. But again, the the reason why I wanted to do the podcast was just my you know how it is. I I I've seen your Instagram, you've just shared mixtapes on Instagram, right? That's what I did when I was a kid. I recorded mixtapes for for friends because I wanted them to discover music, you know. I want it my my friend needs to know who craft work is. I'm gonna do this mixtape for for him, right? My podcast was the exact same thing. I wanted to share music before I started traveling the world. I was doing a radio show locally in in Alborg as well, also just about sharing music. Me becoming a DJ was about sharing music, yeah. You know, the music you love and and trying to convince people that it's not only the music on the radio that's good, this music is also good. So when podcasts started being a thing, um I just saw the opportunity to share my music. Oh not my music, the music that I loved. And um I I had no idea it it would take off. And I I remember it got a lot of streams plays on SoundCloud, that was mainly where I uploaded it and looked, but I had no idea that it had that impact. Only when I met people around the world who told me how much it meant to them to listen to that podcast, and how they couldn't believe that I was also speaking like that in real life, having that that calm voice. And yeah, I've had a couple of funny coincidences where promoters or the people in the clubs or at the festivals, they actually wanted to pay me money. Maybe it was uh the clubgoers as well, I don't know, but they asked me to pick up a mic and whisper noir recommends because that was what I did back in the early podcasts. And I was like, No, I'm not gonna do that. That's embarrassing. I'm not gonna stand in a club and whispering to people like that's embarrassing. So maybe there was these small things that should have triggered something in my mind thinking, oh, maybe this is a big thing, but I never thought of it as being a big thing. I just recorded the podcast and had my insecurities about am I pronouncing this or that the right way? And I wasn't thinking about it being big, I was just sharing music. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

That's the whole drive behind so many of us who are people who um you know share music in the public domain, you know, it's it's it's wanting to share your love of music because it touches you in such a way. My my hope is always the music that I love touches other people in the same way that it touches me, you know. Yeah, and when it does, it's such a great feeling, you know, when people go, Oh, I love this track. And you're like, Yeah, I love it too, that's why I'm playing it.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Yeah. And go going back to the late 2000s and early 2010s, that was some of the stuff that I noticed that people started getting moved by the music, either the vocals. I mean, a great example is when I started playing Denis Ferrer's Hey Hey, which is so extremely simple but extremely hooky as well. Yeah, that would create some reactions. At that point, I played a lot of instrumental music. There was a lot of instrumental music in the clubs on the wave of that minimal scene that has been taken over. And when vocals started come back in and melodies and deeper chord structures, it kind of started moving people again. And that that's also what shifted it back into my hands or over to my hands at that point. It really played into the strings of what I've really liked. And but I remember seeing that emotion, and the reason why I discovered it is because during the minimal days and the whole period of instrumental music, there was a lot of guys in the clubs, and when the emotion came back into the music, and also the vocals, of course, but when the emotion came back into the music, you started seeing more and more women in the clubs, and you started seeing seeing them not just hanging around, but actually feeling the music, and that's what I started seeing in the smaller clubs during that period was that people was like singing their hearts out, or just they didn't look just dropped up or grooving along to something or hands in the air, they actually looked like they were feeling the music all of a sudden, and yeah, that played really well into my hands. That was what I was all about.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Yeah, man. And I I think you know, as as you're saying that, I'm thinking to myself, that's probably a big part of the reason why people feel so much nostalgia for that time as well, was because they they got a real strong feeling from being out and dancing to the music. It wasn't just that they were having a physical response to, as you say, to you know, minimal structured instrumental music, it plays into a strong feeling of like memory, singing with your friends, like the vocals and what those vocals meant to you in terms of your current experience at that time, etc. And also then that plays into not just your connection with music and what you like to do, but so many other producers out there who are making music that had those vocals in it, the big bass lines, the melodies, the chord structures. And then that's kind of I guess the perfect storm for this explosion in popularity.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, it's it goes through circles, so there's been those amazing tracks before the 2010s, and um, we all remember Missing by Everything But the Girl, right? And um, I really loved a track from that period too by Fotek called Mind to Give with Yes, Robert Owens, yeah, yeah. Amazing again, one of my all-time favorites. And um, so these records already existed, but there had been a time without those records. So when that feeling came back in, it just exploded. Yeah, and the whole scene also, there was more room for the electronic music, it was growing, and festivals were starting to become super popular with electronic music. It was wasn't just rock bands anymore, and uh you know, these pop acts, there was big electronic festivals happening all around the world, and I remember being in Brazil, I don't know which which city, I just remember I played a big festival in Brazil, and I must have played to 5,000 or 10,000 of people, and I remembered playing this slow 122 BPM, it could have been a last track or something like that. It was definitely melancholic and simple and slow and just emotional, and the whole crowd was into it, and that was one of the moments in my life when I realized that this whole thing was big, but also how amazing it was that it didn't have to be banging. The fact that it connected emotionally and not by a banging techno beat or something really popular. One of the things I enjoyed in the early 2010s was that I could surprise people with something I felt was really good emotionally, something that sounded really good or connected somehow. Definitely something that sounded good in a club environment, right? But was super emotional, and they would react to it. They weren't reacting because of a banging beat or a crazy drop or anything, they were reacting to the emotion, and that was the shift that I really liked in the early 2010s. And uh the artist I mentioned before that I was inspired by was a big part of that. They created that emotion, that melancholic feel, that thing that was a little bit mysterious and new. So a lot of young people were super curious and just wanted to be part of it, like a tribe. And yeah, I loved it. And I think it lasted for about what seven, eight years, and then everything started becoming harder again and more techno, and which is cool. It it all runs in circles, and I run with it sometimes, and sometimes I distance myself from it if if I don't like where it's going.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Yeah, man. Yeah. So I really I'm really curious to know with your your own kind of personal experience. Was there a point for you as as noir where you kind of felt like wow, things have really shifted, whether it was uh a set that you played, a release on your label, one of your own releases, was there a point in that 2010s period where you really felt like this has really pushed me to another level now?

SPEAKER_00 29:20

With the combination of my label and my podcast and that Solomon remix which become really popular. So I don't have a specific moment where I felt that wow, it's happening now, because it happened gradually. The Solomon remix didn't become a hit overnight. I was grinding and hustling and stuff like that to make people listen to it and and play it, and eventually it was picked up. And I think one of the things that made a shift for the Solomon remix of around was a video from a beach in Ibiza where there was a Spider-Man. There was a guy in a Spider-Man costume.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

Was it Bora Bora? Yes, yeah. He's he was he's like the famous iconic character from Bora Bora, the Spider-Man guy.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

Exactly. And he was dancing on the tables when around was playing in the background, and that video, I have no idea who filmed it, but that video went viral, and that was one of the things that made people notice Solman's remix of Around. Wow. And one of the things that make it take off. I had direct uh access to the sales on Beatport back then, and I could see that it started selling again and it started entering the charts again because it it actually went into the charts and dropped out, and then over the Ibiza season uh and the whole summer that year in 2011, it just gradually grew and grew and grew and grew, and yeah, now it has stand the test of time, I guess. He did a great remix, it was a fantastic remix. I'm forever grateful to Solomon for that remix.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

When I go to events here in the UK where they are based around you know being a bit more 2010s focused, yeah, that is the tune that will get played four times in the party by different DJs, you know. It's like it's crazy how it just is for me, in terms of when people are doing these these parties now that reflect back to the 2010s, it's one of the most popular tracks without a doubt, and it always gets a big reaction as well. So you you said that you were um grinding and hustling to get people to listen to and play it. So you must have known yourself this this is this is a great track, otherwise, you wouldn't have been putting the work into getting people to hear it, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Yeah, so um you're gonna get a secret now because I asked Solomon to do the remix, and I wanted something more simplistic than the original. The original is more chord structure and melodies, and it's deeper, it's darker, it's actually more emotional than the Solomon remix. So I wanted something more simple, uh the sound of the time, actually, right? And so I asked him to do the remix, and it took some time. Then I'm I asked him again because he he already agreed to do the remix, and he he was like, Oh shit, I forgot. I'll start uh next week or something like that. And I think he did it pretty quickly. I remember it didn't take long from me reminding him to when the remix was actually sent back to me. And the first time I heard it, I just fell in love with it. I was like, okay, this is this is special. This is the sound of now, but on top of that, it's also really special. Like he really nailed that remix. But the Solomon remixes at that time was super. I I loved all the the productions he did back then. He was very spot on on his sound, and and I was totally in love with it, and uh I was honored that he wanted to do a remix for me, and then I played it to Hayes and he didn't like it. So I actually had to convince Hayes that we released this remix because uh Solomon had shifted the vocal to sit directly on the beat, and uh Hayes sung it with a different swing, so the feel of Hayes' vocal was now different, but because of the Solomon remix taking off in that way, that is now the norm. So when people hear the original, they were sometimes I've had comments on YouTube saying it's really weird that the producer of the original track didn't know how to place the vocal correctly, but that was how it was sung, and it's sung with a kind of swing and emotion, and it's a little more rigid in Solomon's remix. And I guess that's what Hay didn't like about it, and he didn't connect with the remix, so I had to convince Hayes this is an amazing remix, my brother. We have to release this, it's different, and yet it sounds very current of what's going on right now. And so um he said, Okay, well, you're the A and R guy, so I trust your ears, and I think he's okay with it now. Because for him, the important thing is that the the songs that he writes and sings, they connect with people, they resonate with people, and that song definitely did. It's super simple, but it definitely resonated with people.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

He's an amazing vocalist man, 100% vocalist. Uh Changes is one of my absolute favorites of his really, really cool.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

Even though I've done music with Hayes and I'm still producing music with Hayes songs, Changes is probably still my favorite. Also, over Around, I don't know what it is about that track. Changes is the reason why I got in touch with Hayes to make Around together. That's again one of my all-time favorite. It's it's the whole production, the chords and the bass line, everything is just amazing in that track. The feeling, and yeah, it's the reason why around exists.

SPEAKER_01 35:32

Wow, yeah, special man. Big shout out to Saban as well for his remix. I really like Saban's remix as well.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

Yeah, there's a story behind that as well. So Solomon's remix was doing really well. Soban was going to do a compilation, a mixed compilation, either for a magazine or a record label. I don't remember that. So he asked if he could get the parts around because he wanted to make a more upbeat and housy version than the Solomon remix. And I said, Okay, cool, cool, no worries. And he said it will be released on this compilation, and uh you can have it for noir music. And so he did the remix, and uh there was a little bit back and forth because you yeah, I think he was also confused about the vocals sitting differently on the Solomon remix than the the files that he got, because they were sitting correctly in the files he got, you know. So, anyway, that I remember there was a little bit back and forth, and then when it was finished, um his manager gave the remix to Seth Croxler and Jamie Jones. They were playing the closing of DC Ten, yeah. Yes, DC Ten, yes. And they obviously loved this new version, so they played it, and that rushed things. So Saban's manager contacted me and asked, could we release this early? Could we do something? Because this is gonna take off now. And he was he was a hundred percent right. You know, I released it as fast as I could, and I think within two, three, maybe four days of its release, it was number one on the Shangra charts on on beatboard, and uh yeah, that just took off because it was already a big hit around with the Solomon remix. It'd been a big record over the summer period, and then when they posted that video from the closing party, and people just hear a new version of that track that is more energetic and more housy and dirtier, I think a lot of DJs wanted that kind of version of this club hit, so there was a lot of hype on it. These things that you cannot plan or predict, or that just plays into your hands. You know, you you just go with the flow, really.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

It's so funny because as a party person and a lover of that music, I can remember that video circulating on Facebook and me and my friends being like, Oh my god, have you heard this like tune that Jamie and Seph are playing? It's like and I I can't remember if someone has properly ID'd it or not. But at the time we were like, it's a remix of a round that we've never heard before, and we were just so excited because we just thought this just sounds amazing. We already love the Solomon remix, but what's this? Who's made it? Yeah, yeah, there was a lot of excitement and hype around it, man.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Yeah, a hundred percent. And you can say that the Solomon remix was me ARing, that was me saying, Okay, who could do a great remix? And it's always a risk when you take that decision. Yeah, and I was uh at a low point economically with my career because we just moved to a bigger apartment and it was more expensive, and I wasn't making the kind of money that I anticipated making, and probably I didn't have enough gigs or whatever. I don't know what happened at that time. I just know that I worked 24-7 with my label and everything. And having to pay for that remix for Solomon, I had actually to go to the bank and get a small loan. Wow, not because it was a freaking big remix fee that he got, he was super fair, but just because I didn't have enough money and I had to convince my wife that everything will be okay, you know. If we can just loan this money in the bank and get this Solomon remix, I I really believe this is the right thing to do. And okay, she thanked me later, so because it evolved into this big thing that it is, and it gave me a lot of DJ gigs. Again, it was combined with the label and the podcast and everything that I stood for, other tracks that I released, but it was a game changer to have such a big record, of course.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

And uh and then the Soban remix, that was not me, that was coincidence. I did not AR that I did not find Soban, he came to me. So that happened by coincidence and extended the life of a round, a big deal, actually, I think, because it went straight to number one, that Soban remix, and and like you say, it was super hyped. Everybody was talking about who who did this remix, and and Seth Truxler and Jamie Jones were probably the biggest DJ at that time as well, and playing playing the closing party, right? Later in in my career, I experienced the exact same thing. So I did a collaboration with Olivia Giacomoto called Rest. And Rexon was a great friend of mine, and he'd been asking me, uh, can I do a remix of one of your tracks? And I really want to do it. And I said, Yeah, yeah, but let's wait for the perfect one. And when we'd finished that, I heard the Rexon remix again using my AR yes. I heard the Raxon remix of that track, but what he delivered was freaking amazing, like it was so much better than I had anticipated, and um even better than the original for me. So that was released on Tronic, and the original sold better than the Raxon remix in the beginning. It didn't hit the top of the charts, it was just one of those releases, you know, you release it, it does okay, then you forget about it, and then there's a closing party in a pizza where Karl Cox is playing the Rackson remix, and he's doing his wait for it, and all these right captions on social media, Instagram and Facebook, I think back then, and all of a sudden this remix goes to the top of the charts again, coincidence. So that's what's wonderful about music and the industry and the scene as well. That sometimes things just happen out of the blue, out of your hands, and music you made could be 10 years ago, you know, all of a sudden become super popular. Yeah, even now, today in the in pop history, like the Kate Bush running up that hill because of Stranger Things, right? Yeah, all of a sudden she's number one everywhere, and she didn't manage to do that back then.

SPEAKER_01 42:27

Yeah, uh the the same happened with uh Fleetwood Mac about four or five years ago on TikTok. I was in a relationship with somebody, and her daughter was like 12, and she was like singing Fleetwood Mac, and we were like, How do you know this song? It's just gone viral on it on TikTok because of XYZ video that we all love, and now we're all singing this song. So it's it's amazing, isn't it? Timing is has a lot to play into all of this kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

It's amazing because when you make music you and you put it out there, it will be out there forever. And sometimes it gets picked up, and you're like something becomes popular, and it was something you already forget about, it's in the past, or yeah. I have tracks like that. I get contacted by people that write me direct messages on on Instagram, just saying how much they love this or that track for different reasons, or it reminds them of a period in their life. And again, when I do music, I don't think about that. But when it comes back to you, it's always really nice to know, right? And absolutely, yeah, lovely stories.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

Well, I have to say, well done for having the belief in the Solomon remix to, you know, to make that commitment to getting alone out and you know, making that happen. Because some people may have gone, do you know what? It's it's actually it's not worth it. I don't want to get myself into debt or this or that or the other. But you had the vision and the belief. Behind that track to to really like take a bit of a financial risk, really. I mean, I guess maybe for you it might not have felt like that because you had that belief, but you did have that belief and you made it happen. And now look.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

It did feel like that. Same period we cancelled our holidays.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

We and I and I took that loan. So it I knew it was a risk, but I just, you know, I was inspired by what Solomon did and all the names I I mentioned in the beginning of the podcast. But when you have a label or when you produce music, whenever you release something, if it's other artists or yourself, you have to believe in it. You know, if if you don't, if you're not behind it, it will never make it. And that was always my belief as an AR. If I don't believe in this music, it will never make it. So there was big tracks that I never signed that got released on other labels just because I didn't love them. Yeah. I wouldn't be able to play them myself in my DJ sets. And um again, that's why it played into my hands when things took off because this was a sound and emotion that I really believed in. So I was just a hundred percent behind it. If it was HotSense82 that I released, or if it was my own track, I believed in it and I played it and I shouted about it.

SPEAKER_01 45:20

And yeah. Speaking of Hot Since82, you did a yeah, and you've you've mentioned the term AR quite a lot as well. You signed a lot of music from artists who weren't necessarily that well known at the time, but actually through having releases on Noir and being on your compilations, which were essential for so many of us who loved music at that time as well. Like those compilations, what were they called again?

SPEAKER_00 45:49

I did compilations called Darkstars, and then those related to Noir music, and then I later on started a concept called Use Your Ears.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

Yes, use your ears, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

And that's that's what I wanted people to do. Like, don't look at the uh videos, don't look at how big the artists are, how many streams they have, how many records they sold, use your ears. That was my whole point. It was the same with the podcast. Noir recommends. I wanted people to use their ears and and listen to the music, and that's also why I tried to speak calmly on the podcasts, not to overhype things, or I again that's also my personality, so I wasn't being unnatural. But instead of trying to force being hyped or say some hype words or really like talk loud or whatever, I felt like I just want to be myself, you know, and just let the music do the talking. And yeah, from time to time I would I would say why I loved the record that I was playing in the podcast, or I would whisper recommends, yeah. Which was really ridiculous, but for some reason it worked.

SPEAKER_01 47:03

Yeah, it definitely works, man. There was Lars had some amazing releases with you, man.

SPEAKER_00 47:09

Yes. Do you want stories behind these artists?

SPEAKER_01 47:13

Well, I mean, like um, there was Finn Bason with uh Yes, I have I I really have some great stories about discovering this music. Yeah, I'd I'd love to hear, man, because for me Lars, I didn't hear about Lars until he was releasing with you. Finn Basin had already had um the track that samples Aliyah.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

Aaliyah.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

But then there was it, was it called Holding Me or was it called Touching Me? I can't remember. Touching me, touching me, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:39

Yeah, yeah, singing Holding Me as well. Yeah, holding me touching me, yes, you're not wrong there. Yeah, so that whole period with Hot Since 82, Lars, Spinnepassen, Nice Seven, um all these it came through at at the same time, and that's why I said my label, my podcast, and the Solomon remix, my own productions, all this just that was a force that came at the same time, and that's why things took off the way they did, and I felt part of the movement that was created by crosstown rebels as well. Life and Death, the record label. What's Jamie Jones label called? Hot Creations, Hot Creations, yeah. I was thinking of Hot Natured. That's that's not the name. I think all those were a force to be reckoned with in the deep house genre and area. There was many more labels. But I felt part of that because of these artists with great music and the Hot Sense82. He sent me the very first HotSense82 tracks because I knew him, Daily Padley. I knew him from years before, and he'd been taking a break from the music industry or DJing or whatever, and he came back with a new sound. And one of the tracks that he sent me was Let It Ride, and he said, I'm gonna be called HotSense82 now. And I was doing these EPs where I collected tracks from different artists, and they were called Second Chances and New Romances.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

That's what I was trying to remember. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 49:17

Okay, those were just small EPs of like between four and six tracks. Yeah. And he was part of that, and that took off. And the same with Lars and the track that I played everywhere, and that was from another label, and I did my own edit of it. I didn't do much, I just edited so it fit my DJ sets better. And I noticed that people really reacted to this track, and no one knew the track. So I contacted the label and asked if I could release that track on Noir Music. And that was actually the beginning of second chances and new romances that was based upon this, you know, even though music doesn't hit it off the first time, you can still give it a second chance, and for some people it would be a new romance, you know. So nice. That was that was the the whole feeling of uh uh about that, and yeah, nice seven Finnebassen. There was a lot of artists was involved in those EP's small compilations, probably. So yeah, yeah, that's why I wanted to tell the story because it kind of the artist again kind of shaped the names of those releases.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

It's so good to hear this, man. They were I had a radio show, my first radio show, 2012, and whenever I got a new promo from your label, I was like hallelujah, because I was like, I know that I'm gonna be playing at least four or five of these in my in on my show, and then I I started my own little party around that time as well, and I was I was playing a lot of that music, yeah. Oh thank you. Yeah, no, it was it was just like yeah, I was just always so pleased to get to get the promos from your label, man. What was it like for you traveling the worlds and you know being you told that story about playing in Brazil? I'm really keen to hear more about your your global travels and any particular highlights and and how that influenced what you were doing, you know, as a as a DJ and producer.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

I was just riding the wave and enjoying being booked all around the world because of the hard work I'd put in to get my label going, the podcast, my own music, music from other artists. So I was just enjoying the success, and I wasn't paying attention to it being a popular or genre-defining thing, or I was just enjoying the moment really of just being booked in clubs and playing to people who really enjoyed the music and came to the DJ booth and hugged me and said, Thank you for the music, and uh you are really different, and we love you, and all that stuff. I was just taking it in. I wasn't thinking about it was a moment in time or things would shift again. And in terms of if it affected my productions or what would happen later, yes, it did, because when the the scene shifted again and the music became more techno and tech housy again and faster and stuff like that, that affected me uh in my own productions and the the music that I started playing because I was part of that environment and I still fitted into that environment. And I started playing smaller clubs, now I was playing these big festivals, and it's a different beast playing a big festival. And if the emotional slowed-down music is not popular, you cannot play that at a festival and still expect to be booked next year or at least keep your doors opened. So that shifted my music to be a little faster, a little more banging. But my taste also changed, you know. I can't stay in one lane forever, and I really quickly get tired of the same sound. Um, that's why I've produced so many different things as noir. You know, you can find instrumental, really dark stuff, ambient stuff that sounds like it was taken out of a horror movie. You can find stuff that is housy and happy, uplifting. There is probably noir DNA in all of it because there's this taste in music and melancholy to it. But yeah, it definitely shifted my my both my taste in music and what I started producing, what I started releasing on the labels. Also, the other artists started shifting, you know, they become tired of the same sound, and it all runs in circles, and yeah, hopefully we will have these emotional music back. I think it already carried on into melodic house and techno anyway. I think Afterlife Records carried a lot of the weight of the evolvement of the deep house scene that became this melodic house and techno, and and the sound, even the sound that anime has involved into now comes from back then. I think he would tell you that the inspirations are from back then, but they've now evolved into this beast that he's built on his own, and he's really good at what he what he's doing. You know, it's not the kind of music that I'm into, but he's really good at what he's doing. I mean, from what he did in Tail of Us to the afterlife to the anime now, that's that's an artist that understands how to shift and evolve over time. Amazing uh artistry, I think.

SPEAKER_01 55:00

Yeah, big time, big time. What kept you going when things felt tough?

SPEAKER_00 55:08

Music, I don't know. What else would I do? I I mean if you if you fall in love with this, there's no going back. You can't stop producing music, you can't even stop DJing, even though it's in your own bedroom. But uh you know, you have to play these records loud, you have to have the electronic club music in your ears at all times, as often as possible. When I walk the dog, I listen to all the new music. The Noir Recommends podcast have shifted into a Noir Recommends playlist on Spotify now. So that's where I put the music that I really like. I can't help but checking new music. So at dark times or at low periods in your career, that's what keeps me up and motivated. That I can't stop listening to music. And at some point it will inspire me to carry on. You know, I will hear some music that makes me carry on. And then during the pandemic is probably one of the times that I felt the most down period in my life. I found podcasts like this listening to other DJs. I find the scuba, not a diving podcast, where he was interviewing Dobfire and Recondite. Oh shit, man. I forgot the names, but I listened a lot to especially his podcast, but also other podcasts, Resident Advisor, hearing other DJs talk about down periods in their career, talk about the scene, how they experienced it, and that was like therapy for me during the pandemic. That was serious therapy for me to listen to podcasts, yeah. And others sharing their thoughts and feelings about what has gone on. But yeah, I don't know. I can't do anything else. That's what keeps me going.

SPEAKER_01 57:14

That's amazing, man. I had a bit of a fuck up a few years ago when uh I turned my laptop on and all of the music from my iTunes had disappeared, and I nearly had a panic attack because there was so much music there and I hadn't backed it up. But I managed to find a way to put it back in there. But it all went back in in alphabetical order. So rather than being, you know, when it's been added by pixels, but it it was totally fine, and it was actually quite nice because then I had this period of rediscovering music and artists that I hadn't really been paying attention to. And I had this really funny point which which comes up sometimes on my page where people are like, What are they doing now? and uh it's really interesting. I did a post about David August quite recently, and quite a few people were like, What's he doing now? And if you go onto his Instagram page, he's still busy, he's still around, but he's just not on your radar anymore. And I think it's quite an interesting phenomenon where people kind of think that this DJ or this producer, this artist has disappears and they're not around anymore, just because you're not listening to their music. And maybe it was actually because you made the choice not to listen to them anymore because they're shifted out of what you like that you don't actually know what they're doing anymore. Yeah, I just I think it's an interesting phenomenon, and also there's this other side of things where speaking about anima, for example, people just go, Why don't they make the music that they used to make? And they find it really frustrating and they get annoyed and they almost turn their back on the artist because they've shifted their sound so far away from what they used to do. But if you're an artist, you understand that you you have to kind of shift away from what you were doing because you just can't keep doing the same thing forever.

SPEAKER_00 58:59

Yeah, you have to make some choices during your career, right? And I also made a choice, you know, I could follow the money trail and play these big festivals and play more commercial music, but I stopped. I I listened to my heart and my ears, and I followed that trail instead, which led me to more underground-ish music than I had been releasing for 10 years. But that was the path I chose to take. And now that we I I mentioned the the pandemic, I actually remember I did something really stupid during the pandemic, so I had no idea what to do when everything was closed, it was really bad in Denmark. And um I I because it was such a big stress factor and had been such a big big stress factor in my life, I decided to take a year off from social media. And this was probably the most stupid time to take a year off from social media, but I was so stressed with trying to figure out uh, do I record a DJ set here in my living room? Or do I set up a green screen? Or what do I do to stay relevant? And at the end of it, I just said, forget it. I'm not gonna care about it. I'm gonna do something that I've wanted to do for a long time, and I deep dived into synthesis, production, mixing, mastering, and just got lost in music and was lost for a year going through modular synthesizers, learning my craft even better than I'd done before. Some of the things I felt where I was limited as a producer, I started really deep learning during the pandemic. So this kind of again answers one of the questions you had about what I do when there's low times. And I went into my own bubble, basically, and started trying to get better at what I already was okay doing, but I wanted to be much better at it. So that's probably also some of the things I I do in low times. I don't stop, I just try to get better because my brain thinks there's a reason why nothing is happening right now, there's a reason why you are not popular or your music is not getting streams. So you must do something better, not different, just better, you know. So I guess that's a coping mechanism I have.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:32

Wow. Wow. And how is that working out for you? Because it's been six years since the pandemic kicked off, and you've sent me some some new music, which I really enjoyed listening to. How's it been over the last six years for you in terms of you know your creativity and I don't know, feeling like you still have some relevance, for example, because relevance for for people in the public domain. I was I was talking to a friend about this last night. Relevance, it can really play havoc with your mind, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:06

Yeah, totally. So during the the pandemic, something really weird happened to me. I I started getting the these anxiety attacks, and um it was part of why I had a down period because I didn't understand them. I didn't understand what I was afraid of. And I guess it was like a side effect to the heavy touring I've been doing for 10-15 years, experiencing some really mad stuff around the world. Like I was in a big car accident in Brazil. Oh wow, I was in Istanbul, Turkey, when there was a terror attack and we had to go into basements to be safe. Wow. And I I've always been calm about these things, never really reacted to it. And when you can't come home and you have to tell your family about it, you know, it's it's really hard to talk about these things. So when you get these one and a half, two years off from traveling and just being yourself in your own little bubble in Denmark, it caught up with me. And I started getting these anxiety attacks that uh made me afraid of flying, traveling, not playing DJ gigs. I wasn't afraid of being on stage, but that affected me heavily post-pandemic when everything opened up again. Yeah. Already before the pandemic, I didn't lose interest in DJing. I lost interest in traveling. Right. And I started feeling like it was a waste of time sitting in airports, in hotel rooms, and I've been doing that for many years. I spent a lot of time in hotel rooms and in airports, uh, just waiting, doing nothing. And I started getting tired of that. I started because during the pandemic, I started going to birthdays in my family again. Wow. Because that's during the weekends. I started caring about not missing weddings and big birthdays, and you know, just being with friends and family that became important to me. So I started touring again just after the pandemic when things opened up, but I had strong anxiety attacks by traveling, not by playing. When I was in the DJ booth, nothing was wrong. But the music scene had also shifted during the pandemic. It was really hard, fast techno, and I felt super disconnected to the scene. So I just made a decision and told my agent I'm not gonna DJ and travel for some years. I don't know when I get the feeling of being back, but if I don't feel like traveling around the world and being in clubs and working and at night, someone else has to get my place in this puzzle. Because I can't take up a place and the money for something that I don't enjoy when there's someone out there 25 years old, desperate to get my seat. So I decided to not tour and uh just stay home and produce deep music, and um that's what I've been doing since the pandemic, these six years. And during that process, I fell in love all over again with the period we are talking about, the 2010s and the late uh 2000s, and I started producing music like that again and reaching out to singer songwriters after years of just producing instrumental music again and very soundtrack score music, I would call a lot of the music that I released and produced, and I started listening to all the music that we've been talking about from this period, and I was like, oh Oh my god, this is still so amazing. It and it's still timeless. It doesn't sound like it's from a certain period. It's still like around, it still sounds fresh somehow. It hasn't dated. So I started producing that kind of music again, and again by coincidence, defected contacted me and said, We are thinking about doing a re-release of Around, and we get all these bootlicks of uh sampling the Solomon remix that people are playing them in the clubs right now. What do you think about having another remix or something out of around? And uh I told them if it's not gonna be sampling the Solomon remix, the Solomon remix belongs to that period. Yeah, the Solomon remix is the Solomon remix, it doesn't need 10 BPM more in tempo, it doesn't need extra beats, hi-hats, whatever, it doesn't need a big drop or anything. Let that remix belong to that period in time, let people pick it up and play it again today if they want to. I don't want to destroy this remix, and this is in respect of the music and in respect of Solomon. So I asked them if we re-release this, we have to find a totally new remix, and it has to be a new direction. You can redo the sub N remix, like another producer just doing a house remix. You can't do another remix that sounds like the Solomon remix. We we need a new direction. And they said, Okay, let's think about it. And then a couple of months later, they sent me this remix done by Medusa. They are a big act, Medusa, and normally it wouldn't be music that I would be super into, but I really liked that remix. And it was because of the emotion they captured something again, right? And I like the remix and I I I liked the sound of it, but I would probably never have asked Medusa to do it because of what they sounded like and never played their music uh in my DJ sets. So this kind of happened by coincidence. So that Medusa remix um really inspired me to do something myself because the emotion of the remix banded new emotions in me, and I had ideas for a chord structure, actually kind of copying what they did. But once I sat down with my keys, uh piano and started playing, something different came out of me, and I had the idea to try to create the song as a sad love song, really, and make it cloppy on top of that. So that's why it starts slow and evolves into something else if you listen to it. It's called Around Reimagined, also released on Defected. But to me and Hayes, that was the right way to re-introduce Around because we wanted something new and original uh to be released if they were to release it, and they respected that. And that rekindled the relationship between me and Hayes, and we did another track together that called Breathe, that was released in September on Noir Music, was also well received. And uh, you have heard another one from us coming uh later this year. So these things that happen in the music industry by coincidence is the most fantastic things, and because of Medusa's remix of Around, it made Hays and I reconnect again and write music together again. Or basically Haze, but the two tracks that the one that was released and the one coming was song that he had already demoed, and that I just made into what they are today. But it was amazing songs, and he still have some songs that are amazing, so I think we're gonna continue our relationship and do more. So he's a he's a great singer-songwriter, really. He is.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:12

Yeah, man. Lovely. I love all of that, man. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for sharing about the anxiety stuff as well. I don't know if that's like difficult for you to talk about, but I appreciate that because it's quite a personal thing to share.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:23

Yeah, I I think if you'd asked me at the time, I would probably get another anxiety attack by talking about it. But now that I'm I I know what it is now, I I kind of know why I I got these attacks and why I felt that way and why I had to go through that period of I don't know if I want to call it depression, but it probably was a minor depression. But when you're at the other end of it, it's easier to talk about. And also I I kind of know what it was, you know. There was a lot of things playing into this, you know. When you're a DJ traveling the world, and even though I claim that the success and and stuff didn't, I didn't realize it at the time, was just riding the wave, when it all of a sudden gets taken away from you, and you don't get to get on stage and play in front of people who are really into what you're doing and you are the center of attention. When everything is taken away from you, and you don't get to have that feeling of appreciation and validation for a couple of years. I think that does something to a brain when it's something it's used to, weekend after weekend. You know, it's something disappears and you get insecure, and yeah. I think that was also what led to the social media stress. I felt every time I was trying to do something during the pandemic, it came off cringe. It wasn't natural for me to set up a DJ booth and start playing to no one just to be filmed and streamed online. That was the most unnatural thing in the world. It was against everything that I loved about being a DJ. And you're only doing it to stay relevant, you're not even doing this to share the music or because then I would just record another podcast. You're doing it because social media needs a visual, you need to stay relevant. The booking agent is on your neck. If we are about to get bookings after the pandemic, we need to stay relevant and stuff. So it stressed me out, and I just said, I need a break. And it became a year without me posting on social media. So, but it was super healthy for me. You know, I got to see it from the other end, I got to step out of the bubble and look into that world of house and techno on social media and see what people were actually doing to stay irrelevant and to survive, and see how I don't want to mention any names, but there were so many of the people I respected that I looked at and I was like, why are they doing that? If anyone, they don't need to do that, they are that artist, and they do not need to do that. And it was just it wasn't just one artist, it was a lot of artists. And I found it cringe, and I found everything I tried to do the same way cringe, that's why I needed a break. And it was super healthy to step out of it and look into that bubble for my own mental health and just to find myself again because you get lost in this trying to promote yourself all the time, and today I'm I'm doing the opposite. I'm trying to have a little bit of that mystery that the music from the 2010s had, the emotion. I'm trying to have the emotion and the mystery and the melancholy from back then, still, because I love it, because that's me. But sometimes you get caught up in the social media and what's expected of you, and you need to follow this and that trend, you need to do this and that for the algorithm that you get lost in it, and you lose yourself in it a hundred percent, especially for someone maybe you can relate to this. For someone like me, I I didn't grow up with social media, I didn't have it from kid, so I was not used to filming myself, I wasn't used to take selfies, I wasn't used to putting up a camera in my studio when I started recording. That's a vibe, that's something just happens, that's not something I document, I still don't do that. And for many years I felt the stress and I felt that it was wrong that I didn't document, so I tried to do it, and every time I did it after it was posted, I I felt cringe about it because it was not natural. And um back then in in the late uh 2000s and the early 2010s, everything was natural. When I posted something, it was natural, but once things shifted and algorithms became more important and TikTok got involved and stuff like that, everything for me became unnatural. Yeah, and I remember when Instagram introduced stories, I was looking at this, and I remember that Charlotte DeWitt and Emily Lenz was really good at doing stories, and I was looking at it, and they were taking pictures of the food, what they had in the restaurant, they were documenting their lives, and I admired them for being in the mindset of doing that because it worked and it was it was super interesting actually. But for me, I could never do it, I would never post what I had for dinner or document because I didn't grow up with it. They were much younger than me, so for them it was natural, for me it was unnatural. So for a lot of years I had a really awkward relationship with social media, and it's only post-pandemic and even during the what's been four years, five years since the pandemic now. It it's only now here in I think 25-26 that I've really found the balance and felt that I can do what I want to do and I can be myself without having to follow an algorithm or do something forced. Because I actually like artists that are a little bit mysterious, and you don't get to see an insight to how, why, and when they do things. Yeah. That's why I always liked the pesh mode and the cure and Horty's head. This was kind of mysterious and mel melancholic, and later on in the period of house and techno industry that we are talking about, it was acts like Taylor Voss. They were really mysterious. They didn't put much up on social media, but when they did, it had a big impact. It was a picture of them in a really artistic way. So yeah, I think a lot of older artists suffer from this. Yeah, it's not natural for them, but for all the younger artists breaking through, it's the most natural thing in the world. They just ride with it and they are super, super good at it. Yeah, they do amazing stuff on social media, they are amazing content creators, yeah. And old farts like me are just like really bad at this stuff because it's forced. So I I decided not to force it and just put up the stuff that feels natural and I feel represents me. So, but it's been taking a lot of years for me to find that rhythm.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:57

Yeah, for sure. It's uh it's a game that many of us old farts, as you as you referenced, have found very tricky to get our heads around to find a way of doing it that feels right and and aligned with what we're about and where we come from and the traditions that we grew up with, you know. And like you say, there are lots of younger generation artists who it's been their life. They were born into a world where the internet existed already, whereas it wasn't it wasn't like that for us. So we've had to go through a lot of adjustment and a lot of self-reflection and pushing through discomfort around all manner of different emotional triggers and self-worth and like you say, cringe and all of these things, which yeah, it's only natural because that's the generation that we come from. And we in one way we're very fortunate that we knew the world before there was all of this stuff, but also it can be a hindrance because it does take a lot of work to be able to navigate our way through social media, the internet, marketing, business like all of those things that you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:12

It's a totally different beast today, yeah. 100%. Yeah, and and if you notice what has happened also over the past 10 years, definitely, and the Spotify era becoming popular. We talk about labels that had a big impact. Today, people don't talk much about labels. If you go to beatport, you can still find a label profile. If you go to Spotify, there's no label profile. You can find a playlist from the label, yeah, but you cannot find a label profile. You can't follow a label as specific sound anymore. You have to follow the specific artist, yeah, which is also cool, but the way the streaming service works now has kind of eliminated the importance of labels and their impact, you know, because unless you go to album and scroll down to the bottom of Spotify, yeah, you cannot see where it was released.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:07

Big time.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:08

In 2010s, you would always see the branding from the label.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:12

Yeah, yeah, that is a big difference. Uh I was at a festival with an AR from a very well-known label, and they were talking about the label having that exact problem. They were trying to adjust to this new era, I guess you'd call it, where it's very artist-led. All of the events is an artist who's the face of it, and that's what people are connecting with. They're not connecting with this label brand identity, they're connecting with an actual person and artist, and they're the front person for everything that occurs, and they're the popular thing that everyone's attracted to. They're the one who's putting the music out, you know, and they everyone sort of is gravitating towards that rather than the umbrella of a label that might might have a roster of of artists who we're familiar with, as as we would have done, you know, back in the days of life and death, we'd be like, Yep, DJ Tennis, Tale of Us, fucking, like, but whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:10

Um, and that, yeah, like you say, is not the case anymore. I remember when I first started using Spotify a long time ago, and I was trying to, I thought you could hyperlink the I thought it was a hyperlink. I was like, why is there no hyperlink to the label that's at the bottom there? I want to get to their catalogue, and I just and they still can't now. No, it's bizarre.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:30

Yeah, it's weird because now it's become if you like this, you might also like this. That's the closest feature to what a label was before, right? Yeah, because you would follow a label because they signed a specific form of artist or a specific sound in house or techno, they had a profile, they had an atmosphere around them, art history, you can't do that anymore. It's become if you like this, you might also like this.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:58

Yeah. So last couple of things. The first is uh we've already you've already touched on this a little bit, but what are you up to now? Anyone listening to the podcast? If there's a place where you'd like to nudge them in order to learn more about you and to find out more about what you're up to at the moment, or any projects that you'd like to share or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:19

They can find me on social media, that's noir music. They can find me on Spotify, all the streaming platforms, and Pain Camp, of course. Beport, if they want to listen to the music. As for projects I have coming up, myself and Hayes have signed with Global Underground, a label that I really respect and feel is legendary. So we're happy about that. We've signed two singles with them that's coming in 2026, and then I'm gonna release something on Noir Music as well, the first thing coming in March this year. And then things are unplanned, trying to just trust my gut and do what feels right, work with the people I really like, and I'm kind of back as noir. I'm back to doing songs again, uh emotions, and then I have a side project called Root, where I do the more cloppy stuff. It it's actually dub techno, really. Nice. I've always had a big weakness for dub techno. I've always played dub techno, it's probably the only genre I will never get tired of because it's just hypnotic and deep and delicious. And one of the reasons why I keep playing 12 inches and buying 12 inches, because you can get a lot of stuff on on vinyl records in the dub techno genre that is not released digitally. So I still buy that, and then I buy albums on vinyl as well. Um from Underground X to I got the new Kendrick Lamar album, for example.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:53

Brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:54

Yeah, so I'm still a vinyl lover.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:58

Best way, man. Although it's not always good for your bank balance.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:03

Oh, yeah, so expensive today. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:06

Yeah, man. So the the last question is a question I ask everybody who comes on the podcast. And you you've actually kind of addressed this already, but um I'd like to go back over it. So the 2010s page that I run is really popular, all of the feedback is so positive, so many people are just full of joy and positivity about that time, the music, the artists, what it meant to them, the experiences that they had, and you know, social media can often be a place where negativity creeps in, but I really have not had anything negative really at all, in it's nearly been a year now. And I just wanted to ask you why you think that is, and why you think that period, especially I'd say like 2011 to 2014, was such a special time for the music, the the party scene, and all of that stuff that we were both involved in.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:00

I think for some reason, not everybody, of course, but a lot of people came together during that period and lifted the seam in the same direction. A great example is Around was released in 2011, and Defected picked it up and re-released it in 2012. And I mixed Defected in the House, Noir in the House on Defected, and I wasn't including the typical house music on Defected, I was still the more moody stuff, right? So even a label for classic house, Defected, was moving in that direction as well. And I think it's because of the emotion in the music, everybody was feeling that emotion, and there's nothing to be negative about. That's why there's no negative comments. It was also a period of time, as I said, where women started coming to these underground parties because there was emotions and vote, they were feeling the music again. It was not just, you know, instrumental beats and a DJ looking into the screens of a CDJ, or emotion was coming back into the clubs, and even there was a room for songs again, like I mentioned earlier. For me, Dennis Ferrer's Hey Hey on defected kind of started for me to fall in love with songs again. And music connects people, emotions that connect people, songs connect people. If it's just uh soulless music and a DJ set of music you don't remember the day after, you were only there for the night. If it's music that evokes emotion in you, that tells a story, that takes you on a journey, you go back with a memory. And I think a lot of great memories was created during that period. And why would people be negative about that?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:04

Absolutely, absolutely, man. Thank you so much. I really, really appreciate your time, man. We've done like way over an hour and a half there, but it's absolutely flown by, yeah, it's it's flown by, and I can tell by your reaction, it's flown by for you too, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:20

Yeah, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:22

Thank you so much, man. Like I said at the beginning, I was really curious to to know more about you and to hear you know some of the stories behind some of the music that I've loved. And um, yeah, I'm really grateful that you've been been able to spend this time with me to talk about all of this stuff. And um, yeah, I'm sure everyone that's gonna be listening to this podcast is gonna be very grateful too.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:43

Thank you for having me. I'm just grateful to be part of your podcast and having this conversation with you. It's nice to be reminded of those days, and I still can't believe I've been part of that era in uh club music, but I guess I was. But um I feel grateful and I thank you for reaching out.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:04

Pleasure, man. Thanks very much, Noah.