Episode 6: Shadow Child

Welcome back to 2010s Rave Archives The Podcast. 

After a little break, we're back with a fresh episode featuring a real legend of the 2010s and beyond - Shadow Child.

With his DNA EP out last week and a longer-form project on its way, it was the perfect to reflect on his journey.

At the height of his success as Dave Spoon, he decided to switch lanes. Unhappy with the direction the electro house scene was taking, he stepped away and found a new home in the burgeoning house resurgence. 

With his bass-heavy house productions, catchy melodies and impeccable production - as well as his high energy DJ sets - Shadow Child hit the ground running. 

He tells me all about making 'String Thing', signing with Dirtybird, that classic remix of 'Reverse Skydiving' and the ins and outs of his life through the 2010s - including the impact of burnout and anxiety. 

A personal insight from an artist who continues to be prolific, channeling his love for rave and electronic music into his output.

Enjoy and sign up to the mailing list for early listens and extra treats --> https://form.jotform.com/253575864906370

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

2010's Rave Archives podcast. This episode is a special one, man. I've got Shadow Child here with me, and I'm really looking forward to chatting to him about all things 2010 and about some stuff that's going on at the moment as well. Site it's really nice to have you here, man.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Thank you so much for asking. And um, yeah, it's nice to be thought of in this kind of uh realm still, which is um, you know, this music isn't isn't kind of going away, it's had that resurgence, which I'm sure we'll get on to, but yeah, it's always nice to be thought of when people think of those special times, man, they were great, and not and not even that long ago.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

Yeah, that's the funny thing about it, and we'll get into that a little bit later as well. But um, yeah, of course, man, like you know, you're you're someone whose whose name comes up often when the 2010s are mentioned, and just before we get into that era, you obviously have a a a colourful history, uh uh a decorated history, and you were doing quite a lot before the 2010s. Would you mind just kind of encapsulating what was going on pre-2010s, and then we'll get into the nitty-gritty after that?

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Yeah, yeah. Well, my my journey is quite varied. Um, and from being a kid and falling in love with rave music when it first came around, late 80s, early 90s, um, through to like you know, working with the youth service back home, running DJ workshops, doing community stuff through to running my friends record shop, um, DJing in a local type club, playing music that I didn't really want to play. Um, you know, it's been quite the journey. Do you know what I mean? Um, one thing I I always held with me was that I started making music first um when I was at school. So literally in 1988-89 when I went to my secondary school, you know, they brought in a lot of equipment into my school to make the music for these big school theatre productions. But I'm like, hang on a minute, I can make all these noises that that I'm hearing in all this music that I love with that same equipment. Um, so that's what I taught myself to to do before I even touched any turntables or or understood the culture, you know, uh rave culture, uh especially in the UK. So, you know, there's been a lot of stuff, but I guess immediately before um that uh the time we're talking about today, you know, I I had success as Dave Spoon, and that was you know, I broke through as an artist properly in 2004 on Tool Room when Tool Room Records started, uh which is Mike Knight's label. Um, and it was a guy selling a record collection from who worked at the label, and I connected with him, and I was like, Oh, you work for you work for them, and like I just started making music again after like four or five years of just DJing, smoking a lot of blunts, playing a lot of jungle, not really knowing what I'm doing, and not making any music, but um, you know, uh the reason software came out, and it meant you could have a little studio in your computer without having to have all this equipment. Um, and so I had started making music again, and yeah, the the the Dave Spoon thing was was amazing. It was never it got you know, it's funny we're talking about this era of the 2010s today, but that era was the elixir house era before the EDM explosion as it ended up getting called because of what happened in the States and the Swedes and all that stuff. But I came from the first couple of records, was like the first Dave Spring record was like a tribal house record, and then the second record was a big piano house, uh you know, kind of anthemic big room thing. Yeah, it's been quite mad, and then you end up being one of a few artists in that electro house thing from 2005-6, you know, people like Dean Ramirez, Tokyo Nisco, a few of those kind of artists. I was sort of um quite well revered amongst that lot at that time as well, which I didn't really have a clue about because I'm not that guy that's looking for that. Um, I'm just making music for DJs, and that that's ultimately still how I feel today. I want to make music that DJs want to play, you know. That's why I started this. Um, so yeah, the Dave Spoon thing was amazing and um had a Radio One residency, uh, was cream resident in a beta for two years on the trot and successful studio partnership with Pete Tom of all people. You know, I was one of the first people he rang to jump in the studio and actually try and make some music with. You know, we remixed Robin every heartbeat, and was the first thing we did, and we did a load of other bits and bops too. You know, what a privilege, you know, it's just amazing. So that was what was kind of going on as much in a nutshell as I can give it to you. Um, before there's a lot more to it than that, but yeah, immediately before Shadow Child came along, and maybe we'll get on to that in a minute and why. But um, but yeah, they were really special time to me, taught me a lot. I wasn't ready for a lot of it, I've got to be honest. I thought I was because technically I was ready. I think stairs, I didn't, I don't know if I was really ready, never been a big party head anyway. I think if I was it probably would have gone off the rails a bit, but I I wasn't like that. But I can see how that happens to a lot of people because it's quite overwhelming, you know. I definitely felt felt that being within a couple of years thrust into this place that I was in, but just so grateful, man, and just learnt learned so much met so many amazing people, some of which I'm still really good mates with today. After 20 odd years, you know, it's it's great.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

You know, it's really funny. Your trajectory was kind of running parallel to all of the developments with the with the 2010s stuff, you know. It's not like you just appeared in 2010 and then you know things just started kicking off for you. You were doing stuff like way before that. So you I I guess in some kind of way, you witnessed the pre-2010s build-up and can maybe give some insight as to how things developed, not just from your own perspective as an artist, but through being involved in the music and the culture itself.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Yeah, for sure. I think what happened during that time, I mean, the early Dave Spoon stuff is not dissimilar to the early Shadow Chance stuff, in that it was just a great groove and a bass line, basically. But it was just the sounds were slightly different. My roots are in early rave, as I said, and and jungle, you know, the birth of jungle and that whole thing that I absorbed as a kid, and I've always tried to bring that into my music, whatever I do, even to this day. And people that know what I do will will understand what I'm saying by that. So to me, the first two years of each project were actually very, very similar. It wasn't actually that much of a surprise, I guess, uh, musically, just purely what I was doing. But as far as externally, for me, when we got towards the the where are we, 2007, eight, obviously, we started to hear. I mean, my sound was very, shall we say, very European by then, um, you know, big in Oz as well. Uh not massive in the States, I would say, but the States at that point hadn't had the explosion that happened in what 2009-ish, something around then. But what was missing from the UK in that period of time was that real homegrown sound until dubstep came along.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

And I really, really see what happened in the 2010s with house music, particularly some of the basier side of that, was a roll-on from what had happened the the previous few years with with dubstep and and having that British underground sound in in music again. And dubstep, I mean, you know, what a huge thing that is and was, but actually, it was also a precursor, funny enough, to this sound that we're going to talk about today. But yeah, for me, a bit of the setup was in that, and I and I don't necessarily mean those big noisy dubstep records, I mean code nine, I mean, you know, the labels like Punch Drunk as well. Um, you know, they're so important. And you know, when I had my residency show on Radio One, they wanted me to come in and do this big electro house thing, and it was all, you know, the Swedes were blowing up, and this big sound was coming, and you know, and but I was really interested in that and labels like that. You know, I even tried to play a couple of dubstep records on my bit like, okay, this is wicked, but you're you you were you're not really here for that sort of vibe, you know, in indirectly. But I loved that because that to me spawned from jungle and British underground rave music, you know, that whole thing. So for me, and some people might not understand uh this, but that's why we're here talking about today. But my perception of it is that all that stuff, you know, jungle, dubstep, the the and the UK house sound of the mid-90s, people like Grant Nelson, Jeremy Sylvester, the 4-4 side of UK garage, let alone what happened after that, all fed into this 2010 thing massively. So there was a lot of stuff that led into that time, way more than people might realise. And I think there's just it's almost like with dubstep part of the sound palette rather than the feel of dubstep. It was part of the sound palette, a bit of the vibe went into some of those records, you know what I mean, in the 2010s that we'll probably talk about today, and just really important stuff that leads into where we're going, and also just finally, just on that, I would say that part of the reason I stopped the Dave Spoon thing, this kind of electro house into the the EDM explosion that America had that spilled across the whole world, which was huge and it needed to happen. Do you know what I mean? America never had an explosion like that, everything had been rejected for years and years with club culture, and all of a sudden they got it because it was in a stadium with big pyrotechnics going on like it's like all right, showbiz, okay, we can do showbiz. You know what I mean? That's how I look at but that's just their that's their 1992, you know.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

Like we had 1992 for that, uh, which wasn't stadiums and pyrotechnics, obviously, but that was our rave explosion 92. That was their rave explosion whenever the Swedes did that track called one.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Yeah, that that was the moment, you know what I mean? That that really was. And I I know them boys, I haven't spoken to while we used to tour a lot together, uh, and they're they're so in it, you know, and and they're they really mean everything that they do, and and um, and the problem with me is that I didn't. I was playing DJ sets and I was playing music I didn't want to play. I was rolling my eyes at a lot of the music, and in in in my studio, I wasn't making the music that I that I believed in. I was trying to keep up with what's going on, and I and I was, I mean, I said this before in interviews. I I remember being at Crefields playing in the Swedes arena, going like I don't even want to play today. Wow, and that's just this is someone else's opportunity now, this isn't me anymore. And I played the set and did my thing, but um that was the moment I knew that I had to switch things up, you know.

SPEAKER_03 11:16

And and with that in mind, were were you consciously looking for a new direction then? Were you were you sort of listening and trying to hear if there's anything out there that would resonate with you that you could start making yourself for how how did that kind of transition occur?

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Yeah, um well I'd already made String Thing, which was the first Shadow Child record, and I was gonna do it as a Dave Spoon record in 20 probably 10, 11, but nobody really got it because it had the Dave Spoon name on it, and the label I wanted it to be on was Dirty Bird, right? And Dirty Bird was such a pivotal label in this era, and it must have been 2010, 11, and I've made this track, and I wanted to get on Dirty Bird, and and I got on pretty well with with Worthy, and he at the time, now she uh Ms. Worthy now, but Worthy at the time I sent the track to him. We were both using Reason to just you know to just make records on, and I sent him the file and it wouldn't open on his computer because he had an older version, so he didn't do it, and then time passed, and I went back to it and I'm like, actually, maybe this thing's just like finished. I don't know, maybe it didn't need him on it. I was kind of using him as a way into Dirty Bird because he's he was in the crew, yeah. So yeah, the music was already kind of there. It took for me to hear entrance song by Eats Everything in 2011 to actually think, okay, this guy's gonna understand this record that I made. Um, maybe I need to just put another name on it and see what happens. And as far that so on the music side, I was already there, I'd already been there for a couple of years, if not more. Um, but but as far as culturally and being out there goes, I was looking at parties that were going on that were playing this music that I was hearing, and a lot of those were in gnarly basements in East London with 200 people, sound system that's for for a room for 2,000 people in a tiny little space underneath a building, and um, I mean it was a vibe. This has happened a lot over the years with little pockets of genres and and little changes that have happened musically, obviously, but this was the moment for me, and I was kind of like, yeah, this is exact opposite to where I am. I'm in this arena style electro house EDM place with spoon. It's not like I don't want to be there, but I don't want the music that keeps me there. Do you know what I mean? I can't maintain that, and like this was way more exciting and way more me, you know. I I grew up DJing in like backrooms or pubs with my mates and youth youth centres and little little parties we put on, do you know what I mean? And it's like this was a this was akin to that, you know, and it felt more in my comfort zone actually, you know, it really did. So so yeah, as far as hunting anything down, I I would say the parties, yeah, but musically I was already there. It was just like, okay, where who are the people playing these tunes and and where? And like let's go and check that out. But as soon as String Fing was out, and because it was on Dirty Bird, because Dirty Bird did pick it up in the end by Dan and uh Claude von Stroke DJing with him around the UK and taking Eats Everything with him everywhere, and and him like, what is that what is that tune with the strings in it? Like keep asking him, and then they were like, I'll come down. They were playing, I think it was bugged out down on the south coast the weekend that they do, I think they still do it there in Bogner. I lived in Portsmouth at the time still, which is like half an hour from there. Yeah, Dan was like, Yeah, come down, but um, you know, Barclay Claw on Strait wants to wants to chat. So I'm like, okay, I jumped in the car, went down there, and then and then here we are. Do you know what I mean? It's like literally on the back of that, because I was on Dirty Bird, it was that record everyone was talking about. Yeah, Dan had a live essential mix and played it, and everyone was like, What's this record? And it wasn't just me, you know, Bashmore. Obviously, quite a few other people had already set the stall out before me. Do you know what I mean? It wasn't that, but what it meant was that that record was automatically put in that sort of top five, six tunes that you just had to have at that period of time, and um, yeah, it meant that all the bookings came, and it was those parties that that I was sniffing out in London and and other places. In fact, my first gig was in Lincoln of all places. Oh no way with Andy and J-Mo uh doing a motor motor party. Um that's where they went to uni, and yeah, they still had all the connections there, and it was underneath it was a club, but again, a root a room underneath uh a kind of regular Friday, Saturday night, as I like to call it, Sharon and Tracy type club that you get in the UK. But underneath was this, it was like a tube station with these beautiful Victorian tiles, like amazing building. Again, through a huge sound system in there, and all the cool kids were in there. And I thought, no one's gonna know Dave Spoon in here. This is like this is a new crowd. Yeah, and then as soon as I went up to the to the decks to play, there were these two guys at the front that were like, Oh, it's you! Like they were trying to figure out who this shadow tiled person was. Anyway, there we go. So, yeah, it was kind of there already. The ground, the groundwork, if you want to call it that, was subconsciously there musically, anyway. It all this sound made more sense to me than the Dave Spoon sound, anyway, and it was the most natural shift. A lot of other artists have said over the years, oh fair play, you you know, you really took a risk there. You know, I'm like, I didn't take a risk. To me, I was taking a risk staying in where I was because although I was earning the bucks and seemed to be, you know, this sort of high flyer DJ on these lineups with you know David Getter and doing all these big things with the Swedes and all these people, I was I just wasn't happy. Like, and I can't I can't, I'm not someone who can, you know, hats off to people that can just go do it because it's a machine. Good on you, do you know what I mean? Fair fair enough, but uh it comes from somewhere else for me and it it means something different to me, and I I had to I had to honour that, you know.

SPEAKER_03 17:25

Well, lucky us, man.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Yeah, I'm so pleased. It's the it's the bet one of the best things that that I did, and and I just had I span a couple of people out, like my manager at the time. I know he just started working with him at the time, and I think he thought he was took it, he was taking on Dave Spoon and was probably a bit very nice, and uh, yeah, and then it all obviously I was like, no, I'm not doing this anymore. He was a bit like uh and then just going to do probably six months of like four or five hundred quid digs, but I was the happiest that I've been in so long. Good for you. The money didn't the money didn't matter, you know. It didn't matter.

SPEAKER_03 18:09

I don't hear their names enough in this whole kind of 2010s era nostalgic amazing thing. I I have a little bit, but um I have to give a shout-out to those guys because they their their label and their parties did a lot around that time. Obviously, like very very UK-based, but you had releases with them, HotSynce82, like loads of they put out a lot of great music and and they're high level.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah. Uh you know, those compilations, those black book compilations, though that's where you know my track so high went on there, and then hotsen82 and I did a little remix swap, and obviously his remix of So High is is huge, you know, it still is and still gets a lot of plays. Yeah, it was great. Those boys really championed that thing, and I think they'd had their time doing that kind of electro clashy house. They were residents on Radio One Two at the time I was doing Dave Spoon residency, and they done they'd done this quite bad calling it that, but it was kind of student-e electro clashy sound, and like they but they're such lovely guys, you know. I haven't seen them for a minute, but um, yeah, as soon as they knew they it was me, they were just straight on me. Like, I even think so high came out before string thing. Uh because for me, string thing is the fast record, but actually, I think release date wise, I think it might have got there before uh it might have been out so high before string thing actually on that compilation. But those was those were so important, those comments and the way they put their their parties together because I did a few with them in the kind of Midlands and a little bit in the in the north. Um, I don't know if we did anything London way or not. I think it was more up that way with them boys, but um, and then obviously they grew the Moda brands out a bit more, and they've ended up doing some like big things, man. You know, the festivals and everything, and and they were booking a lot of stages and stuff, I think, at the time as well. So yeah, yeah, big up to them. They really that that I think they found their thing as well, you know. Like I found something more natural to me. Um, that was them like this is us, you know. I mean, we can run with this. This is our this is our thing, and it was an interesting time because you had a lot of people that came from underground UK rave music and jungle and that side of things, and you had people some coming from much cooler side of house music, all kinds and techno, kind of all kind of blending in this mad melting pot. You know, some of those early line-ups I'd be on with like one week I'd be on with Bodica and Lofa, the next week I'll be on with Hannah Wants, you know, a young emerging Hannah Wants, and the next week I'll be on with Dirty Bird Crew, you know, Justin and then I'll be back again to like someone who's kind of maybe a bit more, you know, Joel or like whatever, and and or George Fitzgerald, and like it was incredible, man. It was before there seemed to be lanes that came out of that, but that first sort of 2011-12 time was um very much a melting pot. We could all DJ together, we all loved each other's music and supported it, and um promoters understood, and most importantly, the punters got it, you know. Yeah, you could go to a party and have me on with Bodica, and it would just all make sense to people, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 21:31

Big time, and that that's always uh as someone that's observed uh you know history, especially electronic music. Probably the most interesting time for a genre is when it it's kind of a bit nebulous and it's not really quite defined, and it hasn't been divided up into you know into sections and sub genres and whatever, but there's something really interesting going on that everyone buys into. And and that's really for me, is like really where the sweet spot is because you can. You can have lineups like you just mentioned, and everyone's fully committed to yeah, man, I'm there all night. I'm not just gonna go for that one person, or because for that there's that one sound, it's everyone, and you're there and you're committed, and um, and it it creates like such a great energy on the dance floor, as well as from the DJ side of things, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

And one thing I'd say as well, DJs were hanging out all night. There was none of this. I'm in half an hour before my set, and then I'm done. Do you know what I mean? There was none, there was none of that business. It was we were all like proper in it, and we all it wasn't even that oh, I've got to see what they're doing, it wasn't that, it was just like this is this is just fucking amazing. Do you know what I mean? That's what it was. It was great, man. And even over on the continent too, you know, playing with like Tom Trago, Jack Master over there, and then the same crowd I've just mentioned as well, like some of the Dirty Bird crowd, and a lot of the London lot, you know, T Williams, and the list of names goes on and on, but we somehow it all fitted together. And I could play an eats everything record, a Bodica record, uh a Gerd record, you know, breach record, and it would all just like work. I could play a Kerry Chandler record as well. Do you know what I mean? It was just yeah, it was bliss, man. It was good, it was good that first couple of years, especially. It was pretty special, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

I think that's why a lot of us on the dance floor loved it so much as well, because we weren't hedging our bets on going to a party where there's like five to six DJs that all kind of play the same sound, and we're gonna just do this one big party that month. We were going out every single week, like me and my mates would go out every week, and there'd be at least two, three people on the lineup that we wanted to see. But it wasn't just like going back to what we were just discussing, it wasn't just because they were playing quote unquote deep house or quote unquote tech house or whatever. We were going because these are people that we know are gonna be playing good music, and and also we trusted in the promoter as well. So a lot of the time we were actually kind of following promoters and party brands rather than DJs uh like exclusively, and that's how it should be, and that that really is how it should be.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

And I don't want to open up another whole avenue of conversation now, but we've lost those promoters in the last few years, we've lost those regional promoters that have a collective of people that trust them and the brand, they know the music's gonna be great, they know that the whole vibe of it, it's a safe place, it's it's whatever it is that's important to you if you're going if you're going partying. It's just like there's a bit of that that's gone missing, and it's a shame it will come back round, and there's gonna be things going on that even you and I don't know about because we're not meant to know about it. It's kind of like it will be there, but you know, hats off to any promoters that are still going, particularly over the last 10 years, obviously, with everything we've all been through, that are seem to be more regional type promoters, if you want to call them that, that can still you know they've still got that following, and that people are dedicated to to that, and they can put on and curate the party how they want, and it's just trusted, you know what I mean. If the tickets sell out without a lineup, that tells you everything.

SPEAKER_03 25:05

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

That stuff does occasionally happen still, and it's good, it is out there still, you know. But yeah, you're right, it was exactly that, particularly some of these parties in London I was doing in 2012. Can't remember the guy's name. There was a guy called Jim, I want to say War Boy. Do you remember that name? Jim War Boy is a promoter in East London, and like I was like, I'd never heard of him, and I was just trying to like go with it, and I knew that he had the right people playing for him and whatever. I used to do a lot of parties with him, and they were amazing. Even like the egg, it is a bit can be a bit up and down. Um, but I remember doing one at the egg super early on, and that was one of his parties, and it was like, wow, okay, these are the people I want to be playing this music for, and it's like it's ran. It was a magazine called Troop. Remember that?

SPEAKER_03 25:53

Oh, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

With the knee Troop with T-R-O-U-P-E. I can't remember the guy that used to run that. I think he was in fashion and stuff as well, but he was an amazing promoter. I feel bad not knowing his name, but all his parties as well, absolutely on the money. And if you got to play one of those parties in one of those spaces, you were in there, and it was literally was that it's almost to the point where it didn't matter if I was getting paid or not. It was like at that early, early stage to establish myself in in those parties with that crowd and have people talking about you. That's what you did. There were some people that were running parties, it might seem well curved ball now to anyone that's aware of promoters at that time, but those parties were so important. I I did one in South End above a pub, and I couldn't even know who it was. I just turned up and played. It was off the chain in there, it was unreal. It was another one of those with a huge function one, the room was too small for it, but anyway, it didn't matter, who cares? It people were literally swinging off the rafts in there. It was uh it was immense that party, and that was when I knew this is really gonna be something, this um, do you know what I mean? This really, really is gonna be something, and um yeah, just really really good times, man. Really good.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

So, what were your your next steps after string thing took hold and I guess kind of catapulted you in into this this new world? What were your next steps? Were you kind of like, okay, I need to do something else that's in that kind of mold? Were you consciously thinking about that? Like, how did that kind of play out for you?

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Well, two things. So, one thing is in a producer sense, for me, it was about having everyone playing lots of my music. So, I created two free little kind of um bootlegs that I could just give to DJs. I was getting us to do a lot of remixes already, which was great. So, um, if anyone hit me up for one of the tracks, I could give them a bunch of tracks to play. Um, it was about that for me, it was about having enough, and I was in such a sweet spot and so inspired bringing together everything I love about electronic music into one pot. Um, again, it would just non-stop. It was like someone turned the tap on. So I had all this music. I could play a whole DJ set of my own music by about six months to a year in. It was nuts. So, but I wouldn't ever say any of this was planned. I'm not a guy where you could I can come into the room and be like, okay, I have to do this today. Even to this day, I yeah, I'm not that guy. I have to I have to kind of fall into it or it falls into me, whatever whatever it is that happens. I can't plan like that. So there wasn't a plan. I mean, I can tell you what happened, but I can't say there was like a plan. I think management and agent had a plan, and that works nicely the way we were building the thing. I went off on and toured with Disclosure as a support DJ, which was great on UK tour. That was amazing. I mean, I was playing to a younger audience, but that set them up. They were about to get out there and go raving. So they knew my name and they knew my music, and they were going to see Guy and Howard's obviously, and we're just like, oh right, this is wicked. And some of them probably first time they were seeing a DJ, I don't know, yeah, actually in the flesh, because they'll be you you're talking the disclosure crowd was sort of if 14, 15 up. So some of them might not have been in a situation like that. So that was amazing. Um, so yes, the management and agent had the strategy. I just kind of was falling over remixes and little VIPs and tracks and giving them to DJs still. Because for me, it that's that's why I do it. I I don't do it for even the adulation that I've been lucky to get over the years. I just do it because that's what I've got to do, you know. That's kind of how I am. So yeah, there was that there was a bit of a switch though, about a year in because there were more vocals coming into the tracks. I was very, you know, I'd done three, four tracks with Dirty Bird and was playing on a lot of their tours. Now I remember playing in Ibiza for them at the old Sankey's in Ibiza, and I played my I probably was road testing my remix of reverse skydiving, and I hadn't really played that sort of music at the Dirty Bird party before, but everywhere else I was playing, like we were just saying I could play whatever. But I noticed that uh Barclay, Claude Fawn Stroke, he was loving it, he was partying in the booth all night, but I put that on at the end of my set and he just stopped. And he would and I was like, Oh man, he's not, he's not having this one. And he was just he wasn't looking at me or the or the decks to say what's was he playing, what's going on? He was looking at the crowd, he was studying the reaction, and I saw, and I saw, um, I mean, I've never spoken to him about this. I don't even know if he would remember it. I I think that he would remember it. We don't speak a lot, but we're we're on good terms. You know what I mean? I could ask him this, but I remember that. I think that was quite a pivotal moment where I think he probably saw where this thing was going because Dirty Bird is a very signature sound.

SPEAKER_03 31:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

I think at that period of time, just before that happened, it had expanded a bit more. You had tunes from you know Reaper Star, um Bashmore, obviously myself, Eats, and then people started venturing off and away and doing other stuff, and I think a lot more vocals came in, and a lot of people that know Dirty Bird will know it's not really a label that does vocals. And I've done this big remix of reverse skydiving and played at the end of my set, and you know, it got the reaction that it did, and it was amazing. And um, I did see I didn't I didn't see that he was like upset or disappointed, I just saw almost a light bulb. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, and uh that's my perception of it, and he might say something different if he remembers it. But I thought, yeah, this is a moment here. This is and today you're talking about being spinning off a little bit more. That was the moment I realised that actually something else is happening here as well. So those vocally remixes I did, obviously, the Illuna and that one were around a similar time, they did very well and continue to do very well, which I'm you know, I feel blessed for that. But musically, just purely creatively, those kind of fun, quirky, bassy underground tracks were still really important to me, and I would still do some of those. But I also wanted to flex over there a little bit as well, you know what I'm saying? And you're getting these tracks come at you and these remix requests with amazing vocals. I'm not afraid of doing that, you know. As long as I it's a record I can play and I know other people would play, I'm just gonna do my thing. So the Dirty Bird thing slowed right down from that point. I think I think they really wanted to keep their collective in a certain musical state, shall we say? And I think the more that that vocally sounded, there's a lot of piano tunes around at the time as well, not just vocals, and I don't think Dirty Bird did pianos or anything like that either. Really, it wasn't really their vibe. Like Vision of Love would been around for a while, and you know, How I Wish, you know, which was a tune I always harp on about and still play. The Denton Pika tune came a little bit later, cult. Um, but about a made another big, amazing bordering on techno, really, but it fitted again in this world. But I think it was the kind of British vibe of like, yeah, we can do this big euphoric vocal thing too, and actually, you we can plug some of that in to this, and then you had Gorgon going off doing what Gorgon did, and a few other artists as well. And obviously, because of disclosure, flying the flag and doing big vocal tunes, people wanted a bit of that, they just didn't, and that's what I felt that I wanted to do, not strategically, but just things that came my way. And I'm like, this vocal's amazing, I'm gonna use it. You know, I'm not gonna just chop a little bit out, make a funny pattern out of it. I wanna I want this to be the song, you know, and pay respect to the song that they've written. So that's what I did. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:00

I think there's echoes of Garage in there as well, isn't there, for sure. You know, like it's obviously a very I mean you play Garage, very, very, very British sound, and I could see in crowds the kind of shift in the crowds, because when I first started going out around 2010, there was definitely a kind of a demographic, and then over the years it started to kind of change a bit, and the people that were coming in over the next few years, especially around 2012, 2013, were more of it's gonna sound maybe a bit disrespectful, but more of a garage crowd. That I was I went through a lot of garage things in the the kind of like 2000s, and that it was a more of a garage, and there were more women out, and um and they were singing along to these vocal vocal tunes, you know. And I think that was um that was a really important point that you made there about the the vocals coming in because um it was almost like necessary, you know, because when it when it's like really underground and dark and a basement, amazing, I love that, but also sometimes it lightens the mood and it it brings a bit of a more of euphoria or joy to the dance floor when there's vocals that people can sing along to and and catch onto the hooks of, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Yeah, absolutely, and particularly the British crowd. I and I think whether we like to admit it or not, particularly with with us Brits, is that we're all brought up with these big anthems that we've had for years from you know all the all the stuff that you would hear on Early Defected, uh stuff before that, even in the 90s, you know, keep on jumping and like all those big like amp house anthems, they're such important records. You can be as cool as you like, do you know what I mean? As a rave or as a DJ, and I'm gonna play these these tunes that are gonna blow people's minds. Absolutely, but you've got to give people the sugar as well. I I learned that when I played in that club, that regular Friday Saturday night club around 2001, you know, when I was younger. That's you know, because technically, as a DJ, I I was there, but only in my bedroom, and to to my mates, you know, you in that place you had to play and learn the crowds, you know, learn how people were reacting to things and look and even without consciously looking, you had to absorb you as a DJ, you have to be able to absorb what's going on and know nowhere to go, nowhere to it shouldn't even be such a conscious thing. And you hear a lot of DJs talk about this, but it's so true. And for me at that point, that music that did involve more vocals, and I mean there was always vocal samples and bits in these tunes, but they're you know, these are these are like songs and big hooks coming in and stuff like that, and it was yeah, I don't think it suited everybody, but I I think in the UK, and really most of this music at that point in time was coming out of the UK, not all of it, but but a lot of it was. I mean, I mean the first few gigs in Holland, they used to call it the London sound, that was it, but you know, so that was that was their terminology for that music. It's are you you know, we love the London sound, you know, and it's just like yeah, you know, that so it it was quite a British thing. It was quite a British thing, but yeah, those it's important and and the real basics, forget the music, the basics of going out is girls want to dance, guys want to pick up girls, or guys want to pick up guys, or girls want to want to pick up girls, people just want to have fun and be loose and have a good time, and and you need you need to have that with the music that you're playing, you know, and uh people that want to go more nudely and want to have a different type of experience, like you just said, sometimes that that room about the lights on that they're playing. What is this music they're playing? But like what vibe, you know, that's like you can find that too, you can always find that. But yeah, at this point in time, this is what needed to happen, and it wasn't obviously just me, a lot of people, the vocal thing was becoming more and more important. MK, the second coming of MK obviously was so important too. We can't ignore that, you know. I'm so pleased for him that he got that opportunity to because that really was his sound, you know what I'm saying? From the early 90s, that we were all, you know, not not uh he will say, Oh, well, I was doing what Todd Terry and Master were doing. That's what he would say, you know. Obviously, so it comes from a much deeper place than that. But for a lot of us, you know, we I was a big MK fan, you know. I've always had those, you know, those records from the early 90s and the remixes that he did, you can still play them now. And a lot of his stuff when he first re-emerged, it was that, but new records, and it was just it was just amazing. And and he didn't even want to, he was never a DJ. You know, I don't know if you know the story, but Jamie Jones booked wanted a book MK to do a throwback thing at uh Miami music conference, and MK was like, Well, I'm not really DJ, can I do it with my brother, Scotty? And like they went and did it together and played off of a laptop controller, and he just couldn't believe the the buzz he got from it and from the reaction, and then he's back in and then he's where he is. But that period of time, MK, those remixes that he did was it look right through and yes, I mean they were immense, they yes, it was the more commercial end of this thing, but if you've got that going on and you're playing DJ sets three, four, five times a week, people started to expect to hear a little bit more vocals again. Like you said, a lot more girls going out and wanting to party and listen to this music, and you know, that was it. You know, I'm I'm there to make sure everyone has a great time, not to be like, oh, look how cool I am. I'm not the coolest guy anyway, but like it's like I'm there to play music for people that have come tonight, you know. You know, I'm not Jeff Mills or someone who people go to see, wow, what's he gonna do tonight? It's like you know, you and you are entertaining people, so I wasn't scared of it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 39:44

What were some of the highlights of that time for you? Is there anything that really stands out as like a an experience within Sub Festival, playing one of your tunes and getting a big reaction, even like you know, another a DJ that you respect or want to hear, giving you feedback and look, you smashed it there.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

Well, the maddest thing was, and I funny enough, I'd experienced this early Dave Spoon Days. So at early Dave Spoon Days, I released a tune called At Night, and that record did very well actually. But it had everyone from Tiesto to Richie Horton to the kind of UK funky crew at the time all playing that record. Like, how does that happen? And it really spun me out, and um, but that's when you know you've really got one, you know. And then I experienced it again with string thing, and actually the track on the was never on vinyl. It might be, boys and girls, by the way, in the next couple of years, but anyway, we'll come back to that. But yeah, on the uh the second the the the second track on the string thing EP was called Rustic Chip, but I kind of threw it together because Barclay uh Global Stroke was like, Oh, we're gonna need another track and can you have you got another track? And I didn't, so I made a dirty bird sounding track, which everyone was trying to do at the time, and I I got away with it because they put it out. But that track was like Richie Horton was playing it again. A lot of these well-varied names across the board were playing that record, so I had a lot of that stuff going on. So I've had that with some of those tunes quite a bit, which has been pretty mad as far as that goes. But yes, there's been some moments away from the raves too, which has been like 23 getting on GTA five. And I mean, I think the world is still waiting for GTA 6 13 years later. But yeah, my track was picked by Flying Lotus. I mean, that was pretty mind-blowing, and it's the first track on the Fly Low radio station. So anyone who's played GTA will know that if you jump in a car, you can switch radio stations and go through some curated radio stations by people like Flying Lotus and whoever else. Yeah, and if you land on his station, the first track you hear every time you land is 23. So the whole the world's biggest ever selling game, or it was up to a point quite recently. All those people had heard 23. So for me, that was pretty special, you know. And I kind of rinse that bass sound a little bit. I'd had it in string thing and a couple of remixes and 23, that same noise. And you know, it was kind of nice that that happened anyway, and just purely to have someone like Brian Lotus say, This is wicked, this is going on there again.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Yeah, wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

So that that, but as far as I mean, there's so many moments, DJ, moments, not just playing my music, but other people's music. Sometimes playing your mate's music is as much a buzz, you know, they give you a thing they've been working on in the studio that week, and they're like, Oh, we're gonna get it's not quite finished, but I'm gonna give this to you. You know, you know, Dan Eats used to give us loads of rebeefs, as he called it, he still does all those rebeefs. You know, sometimes playing some of those. But I played a track of his called I think it ended up being called Elbow or This Elbows, quite uh but I remember playing that. He gave it to me in a demo form, it was called something else. I remember playing it. There was a party on a Tuesday night in Portsmouth called Concrete, and that was all part of this circuit as well on a Tuesday night because Portsmouth, even though I'm from there, is terrible for going out, like it always has been. Uh, but some of the student parties obviously are really on point. So that little crew were wicked. But I remember playing like his record in there, as well as some of mine, and that place was like a it was like an old Victorian building, it was the old registry office, actually. Old Portsmouth Registry Office, they turned into a venue, and um, yeah, it's like the place was gonna fall down, man. Like the reactions in there to all the music. I remember playing that record of his and probably some early bits of mine around that time. But this this just too many things to mention, you know. First time doing hideout early on, probably 2014, I think 14 and playing, you know. I play at hideout the day parties there and playing music. Uh I play older music too. Remember playing things like Galactical Passion in that out. outside stage with like the little mezzanine bit that goes around the what you call it it goes around the edge of the I can't remember what that that arena is called there's too many man honestly I've just been blessed to have those experiences with my music and and other people's like I say and and some of the people I got to meet as well and some of them some of the punters that were coming out turning into like artists too I remember I remember meeting meeting some people secret early on and then all of a sudden they're on the circuit too and it's like wicked you know this is like it's a really healthy nice thing you know it's good.

SPEAKER_03 44:34

Yeah absolutely man how did the reverse skydiving remix come around because I think uh it it always gets a big reaction when it gets posted or spoken about on the page so I'd love to delve into that yeah sure sure so if you rewind a few months before that they had a track a simulation I think it's called nature yeah yeah so it was the last thing that Pete Tong and I did as Tong and Spoon in my Dave Spoon kind of days and that happened that maybe it was a year before I'd have to check the dates and all this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

So we'd remix and actually I'd done it in this kind of style if you listen to our remix it sounds like me doing Shadow Child like basically is what it sounds like but before I was Shadow Child so yeah check that out a simulation Hot Natured but the Tom and Spoon remix it's very slow too it's like 118 BPM or something slow. But anyway fast forward a little bit yeah because Hot Natured obviously had had Benediction which is just still such an anthem today and I think they've been picked up by might have been Warners as a group and they were trying to elevate them into being obviously we talked about disclosure Gorgon was probably going on as well and they did some wicked stuff and then you had Hot Natured which was kind of this more of a collective of people from kind of Jamie and Lee's world do you know what I mean I guess just for anyone that doesn't know that and I think the label were really trying to push them more as an outfit to be able to go and do live shows and stuff like that at the time so yeah reverse skydiving came around I got sent the track obviously Annabelle is singing on it I knew that Annabelle was doing a lot with them I hadn't really taken a lot in if I was honest I was so busy with everything else going on but this trap turned up and I'm it was at a time where I wasn't I mean I didn't do everything but um I wasn't turning much away if it was coming from the right people and this came from the right people I think Pete Tong was maybe involved a bit across that one at the time as well through Warner's I can't really remember and obviously Pete was someone I've worked with over the years and yeah it came to me beautiful vocal loved what she was singing about I loved the whole concept of reverse skydiving and what that means and what that meant at the time and the way she sings I mean she's got an incredible voice it's kind of bluesy in a way as well it was just a bit different to anything else so yeah the funny thing that might blow people's minds and I've not ever said this is that it had a completely different bass line till the last minute that bass line dum dum dum dum dum dum that everyone when that drops is like oh it's uh it wasn't that it was something else entirely I think I'd maybe played it and wasn't feeling it or I'd given it to because running food music with Lewis at the time from Crywolf and big up uh Lewis by the way and Bill and I might have given it to them sometime we would give things to each other super early just because we were you know big supporting each other and I realized it wasn't going to work and it literally got to the deadline and I'm like I've got to do something else and it happened so quickly that bass line and literally didn't change the arrangement of the track didn't change anything I just I yeah I don't even know if I've got somewhere on a hard drive will be that other version and it sounds like the previous Shadow Child stuff with that other type of bass sound that I was doing it I I think it sounded a bit like that and it just wasn't working at all. Wow so yeah so there you go that's that's where that's skydiving and and it just all fell into place so naturally the whole thing the parts from the original track are amazing I think it were they did it with Mark Ralph and Mark is like genius if anyone doesn't know about Mark Ralph he works with so many artists that everyone loves on writing and building these tracks with various artists and uh you know you could hear I could hear all the in all the parts all the analog gear from the studio because I'm a big studio nerd too obviously I could hear the difference in the sound and what they were doing and wanted that to be a part of the record too you know so that big the breakdown with the with the keys and stuff and giving it that kind of haunting opening I was into making records at a time that could be an intro to a set I remember that so not just beats but like something that was just like oh what's this do you know what I mean you want that sort of moment as a DJ where you're like an in a bit of an intro record so the original yeah that that version is um I mean I've got a couple of other versions that that are just kind of for me to play I might have given them to a couple of mates there's one that was in my essential mix which starts differently it's just starts with the acapella and I often play that out the last couple of years I've done a lot of these throwback sets playing music from this era and I normally well I will start or end with with with a skyline or with the Illuna one but it yeah that version is pretty special to me now because of the reaction everyone sings you pretty much get the whole song in the hook and then it then it comes as well and it's just like yeah it's great. Yeah I feel really blessed to got my hands on that there were some other remixes of that at the time which um which were right as well did MK do one I don't know there is there's a there's a there's there's one that's like an almost fabled MK mix that everyone's like he never put it out and I've only heard it once or twice. Of that it isn't that right yeah yeah I thought so I thought so but again it sounds like I was just sort of being up my own ass a bit but I wasn't really paying much attention I was just it was so much going on for me I was in this bubble it's like you can't absorb absolutely everything you know but I tell you one thing and if anyone's got one out there and wants to hook me up I never got a copy of the vinyl no way I did do a limited run of or a label did I don't know if somebody licensed it from them and did the vinyl but there is vinyl around I've never I've never got sent one and I've never come across one but it's got the the sort of Sphinx Egyptian head on it which was part of the artwork on the label as far as I remember I would dearly love a copy of that anyone who might be able to hook hook me up it's a special moment that the label wanted my remix to be like a hot natured single and obviously Jamie I would feel the same by the way Jamie and the crew they weren't feeling that it had to be their original they would I think Warner's wanting to push my remix as like this is the lead version wow so that nearly that nearly happened that nearly became a single that might have started and done the daytime radio thing a bit more and stuff like that. That was what the label were were wanting to do at the time and I'm not offended that that didn't happen by the way because I would also be a bit reserved about that myself if a remix felt like they were trying to push a remix more than the original so yeah you know hats off to them for standing their ground so that didn't happen but the label really wanted that with skydiving for it to be like go up against an MK record in the charts basically yeah yeah it's quite bad.

SPEAKER_03 51:50

Well as you know yourself from experience that it goes off every single time man every single time it does I I feel I feel blessed that obviously I've got the opportunity to do it but for it to stand the test of time still and all sorts of DJs playing it at all sorts of tempos I've heard it like pitch right up to like 130 something I'm like Christ but you know it goes off you know really it's down to that is you know a lot of remixes I did before that I would use a tiny little bit of the original and really it would be pretty much an original track with a little bit but you know I've got to hand it to them everything that came over to me for in in the remix parts were were incredible and and you know that's what makes the record stand up as much as whatever I did to it like really like genuinely yeah absolutely so let's talk about what's going on nowadays so first of all you're you're very active on on Instagram and you do a great job of just telling you know stories and and presenting narratives in in a short space of time it's obviously what we have to do but I've been following you for a bit now and I I really like the way that you present your your history in kind of bite-sized chunks and talk about things obviously there's all the context around inside out and you know it's an admirable thing I think a lot of artists struggle with that you know putting themselves out there and storytelling etc and kind of utilizing the platform for that purpose so first of all for that but yeah what what what are you up to at the moment and what what's been happening since that kind of peak time as well yeah yeah so again this is something I've talked about before in other interviews so maybe where I've gone a bit deeper into it but I sh I struggled quite a bit with anxiety I didn't know that's what was happening to me by the way until I sort of went and spoke to the right kind of people that help you with that stuff but yeah around 2015 16 I had a lot of burnout and um I found DJing and touring hard you know very difficult and I got some help with that sometimes I still wobbled but you know you're only a work in progress basically with these things and I I'm sure maybe some people listening into this can can relate to that whatever whatever it is for them.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

But yeah I found it really difficult and um I stepped back a little bit probably did half the amount of touring that I could have done from like 2016 up to lockdown. I had to manage it all in a different way also I'd become a dad in 2015 the first time and I wanted to be around for my daughter growing up I didn't want to have this life kind of like a nomad as much as it's a privilege and as what I do I didn't want to miss my daughter growing up so you know it arguably came at a time where that part of it was convenient. So yeah then the music had changed a lot we had the tech house explosion which obviously we was a lot of fun but what I was doing and a few other people on our circuit from a few years before it didn't quite work. We weren't quite getting on the lineup so much anymore. So things had changed a bit and then during lockdown I moved into the house that we're in now and I had to have a temporary studio set up which is actually for anyone that's seen any visual from this podcast that is the room that I'm sat in today it was meant to be temporary in here and this room at the time when I moved in was terrible sonically for kick drums and bass lines which is not a great thing when you're trying to make 4-4 house music anyway I I managed I did some stuff but um I started playing around with music that wasn't 4-4 again so playing with jungle and you know music from my roots and ended up with all this music that eventually ended up being heard by London Records about 18 months ago a year ago and they said can you come in and I was like what's going on here this is like this is it I wasn't making it uh you know some project from this I was just maybe gonna sneak a few tracks out here and there I did a couple of bits of Josh Butler and a couple of bits of Spy who I get on really well with who's pretty pretty big in the DB scene uh wasn't a thing but they wanted to turn this I can say this now because this podcast will go out uh in the new year I can say that this is an album you know an album was spawned from this uh thing I've never really done an artist album on Shadow Child there's been collections of works with a couple of exclusive tracks on so I did connected and I did collect collected which is more about collaborations and remixes never done a fully fledged artist album and um yeah that's what's happening basically right now and that's come from this room being shit that's where it came from and I'm grateful for that and you know what no one appreciates that sometimes your environment is really important for your creativity and actually you know it's a weird one but that's exactly what happened with with with this room so now what's happened is London Records signed me I've got Ross Allen if anyone doesn't know Ross go check out Ross he is he is just the the most incredible music guru really cheesy way to put it but you'll understand what I mean if you check out his MTS shows or um look at his background musically it's just incredible you know London records have got heritage acts as well like Orbital and you know work with Goldie on all the current Goldie stuff and all the historical stuff with Goldie too so all timeless and everything else that's all through London Records too as well as a lot of new break in artists as well so for them to be interested in me and doing some big projects was was incredible so yeah I went at the meeting I I I didn't really want to do a whole album of like jungle like it was just that was kind of the start point and they were so they're so into the the the music I mean I think if it was that they would still have gone with it there's such a great crew over there and um yeah but working with Ross and bringing a lot of new inspiration into the the tracks that I already had sometimes Ross will sit in this room with me and he'll be like you know those two tracks we've done what if you took that from that one and just put that on on on that one and it's just like what what are you talking about? But it's it's actually a piece of genius that's how it works out and it's like oh my god how did I but yeah by the way you were just mentioning my socials I have to big up the team that we've got in place with that too because they're really helping me like put that all together and um yeah so big up Martin and Deggy as well I'm lucky I've got a really good team around me for this album project it goes through the genres you know it really does it's a multi-genre thing telling my sort of musical story a little bit I suppose and leaning into garage into jungle into rave and into house which because you know inside out the single that just came that really is a reflection of what I was doing you know in 2012 really 2013 it was actually Adam Duke Dumont I was on the phone to him just before I did it and I told him about the album he's like it's amazing he says what but there's no house on it and I'm like yeah yeah I'm kind of enjoying like just how I am sorry everyone because I know every what everyone loves that sound but like that's just where I am to keep creative and keep moving I have to do these other things and um that's why I do it but he was like you're mad you need to put like especially with like this MKDR record that was big yeah last summer they're like there's everyone's loving this sound again you know I'd I'd been playing shows for two years for like Crach with Alexis and uh uh George up in Manchester at Full Circle and kind Stephen as well you know because they really know how to put those parties on and people get the music and it's not just our age group that are going you've got 18 19 year olds going particularly Manchester for those parties and I'm like you know all the works to these tunes and you know what's like all the all these records and they're like yeah we were listening to you on the school bus and we couldn't go and now they're going out you know what I mean and they want to see us and it's like so I'd had two years of that and then I had Duke Damont tell me I was mad not to do one of those tunes so I'm like all right let's see if I can still do it because I've not really tried on there from it and and that was inside out but it was an instrumental Ross came in the studio here and then he he said what about this and he just played me Joe Church the Joe Church sample which is a track from 1988. Cool and I sampled before he could play me another track I had it sampled and now with AI STEM split in I could get the vocal off the vocals off because it's his vocal and some female vocals too on the track and it just sat on the track like it was meant to be there I didn't even have to change the key it was meant to be and uh yeah Inside Out was kind of boring and I was like look because we were going to do the album sort of November 25 and um putting an album out then is not the greatest idea you need to do it the next year really so I said look let's do this Inside Out single and it fits on the album it's a club record for like that time of year where we are in this part of the world and yes it's gone down so well man again so many people different types of people playing it you know so Lou's been playing it you know to have someone from that that that kind of real new school thing that's absolutely having it away at the moment all over it as well it's been great it's been received really well and it's a big part of the album there's a special version of it on the album that's slightly different as well the main part of the tune is the same but the in the intro and outros are different and it gives people a different perspective of the of the records and it and it yeah I'm I'm so happy that I've done that there's stuff on there that's that tempo but there's only a couple of four four tunes on the album at the moment but yeah you know big up Ross Allen again for I wouldn't have thought of going there vocally and it's just the perfect thing so yeah so that's it so it's all about the album from now onwards and I hope people understand what it is what it means to me it's quite a personal record even the artwork's very personal to me and you know this is me almost having me time which is kind of what music should be as much as you need to go entertain people you do need to have your your me time to be creative and you need to be able to let this stuff out and that's what this is and I I hope it's an album where people will get to the after party or wherever whatever they're doing somebody's kitchen or wherever you are at eight in the morning and just be able to put it on it doesn't have to be a party record it doesn't it's not that it's something else entirely and I hope it gets received that way.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:15

So that's where I am man that's just going on I look forward to hearing it man because um inside out that that bass line especially just literally transport it's like a time travel literally it just takes me back instantly yeah wicked well no I love that that's what I wanted it to do and again it's funny that bass line I could have put on an electro house record and it could have had and then it would have sounded like an early Dave Spoon record.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

So back to the beginning of this podcast we were talking about I was talking about the similarity that's what I mean it's those melodies are are what comes for me I'm very fortunate that that that I don't know where it comes from what it is I'd never even trained to play anything properly I'm not musically trained but these things just sort of come to me they're very simple but I think that's where they connect yeah it works and and actually there's there's so much to be said for um simplicity in music and it it's actually quite a difficult thing to achieve if you try to think about or overthink it it's difficult to achieve and sometimes it just naturally flows out of you and that's the best way for it to kind of come to fruition. Yeah and it doesn't always do that it like with all creativity like like I know you write as well and it's just like you you sometimes you don't you don't know where this all this all comes from it just comes from somewhere and it's I think noel gallagher's is has said it it all over his career but obviously in recent times since they reformed about they they're just like they just sort of drop from different places and it's a do you cat are you are you open to catching these ideas it's more about that than I've got to come up with something it's like I think things are around you are you open to that are you gonna be able to pick up on these things that you need to be able to go be creative and that that whether it's a melody or just a vibe in a techno record it could be just the way you process your drums it doesn't have to be a melody or anything as I've got older I'm more aware that that's the type of person that I am more than I I'm in any other sense as a producer or or a DJ it's um you still learn about yourself all the time you've got to be open to that no one's like cracked it you know what I mean it's like you've got to just keep moving.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:26

Big time big time so before I ask my last question I just wanted to say thanks for opening up about the anxiety stuff because you know it's I know it's something that's um people are a lot more open about these days but yeah it's still something that's quite a personal thing and and Ben Pierce actually I I did a podcast with him the other day and he he spoke about going through a very similar thing and uh I think you know it's almost certainly very common thing that that a lot of creatives especially people that are in the public eye go through and I'm so glad that people like yourself are are able to articulate and and share about this this kind of thing because it's important for all of us to be aware but also to feel like we're not alone in this kind of stuff because I've had it myself lots of people have and you know sometimes when you're in it you think that nobody else is going through anything like this but actually a lot of people do.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:15

And you also think as from an artist point of view as well and a DJ point of view that who are you to be having a problem with with this with this life with this position that you that you're in and and what you're doing and and regardless of whatever somebody earns from doing this as well you know who who am I that's how I felt for the time how can I how can I even complain about anything um and it's not the easiest life anyway the gigs are like a blessing and I love all of that and I still will always DJ whether it's 10 people or 10,000 I love it. But the life that goes around it with this it isn't and the demands especially now with we talked about social media and stuff a bit it it just yeah it's a lot. It wasn't Just that with me that caused the the problem, it was a lot of stuff, some life stuff, whatever that came to a bit of a head for me. But yeah, the moment was literally um 2015-16. I think I went to my mum's for Christmas, the family Christmas we've done for that point 40 years, whatever plus, and it's like I was sat there watching it on TV, I couldn't engage, I couldn't I don't know what was going on at all. And um, you know, I just played the night before Christmas Eve, Boxing Day, I was going to do circus up in Liverpool, and then 27th I was going to Oz on tour straight into it, and um I'd burnt out and I didn't know what was going on, I had no idea. And any sort of people that might know this era and were out partying in in Oz might remember that time that I had to pull it, and I have to say everyone was so supportive because you have to also go and be public to say, I can't do this, I'm not gonna be there. And there was thousands of reactions to it. I I couldn't look at it for a long time. My my wife did, and my mum, bless her, you know, and um yeah, it made them quite emotional, I think, because of actually how people did support me at that time. But yeah, it was very difficult time. I would never say I've cracked it, but I've got a bit of a toolkit now to help me deal with certain things, and I'm just a human being like anyone else, you know. I'm lucky I've got this thing because this gives me the outlet, because I can see how some people struggle in and end up in some dark places, you know, because if they don't have an outlet, they don't have something that they can go, you know, hang hang it on and and and have an outlet for things, you know. So yeah, I'm I'm I'm grateful I've always had this. And um, but yeah, you know, and I and again I know Ben personally pretty well. I know what he went through. I've I've witnessed some stuff, and um, yeah, but you know, he's he's been through a lot too, you know. He he really has. It's weird with me though, the one thing is a lot of those times I was getting those problems, I know I was pushing through and doing the gigs. I could always pay the gig. Nothing would stop me doing that. I could that was the bit that was the comfort zone for me. It was something else was going on away from that. That was the bit I know, but I know for Ben it was almost the other way around. It was actually being able to, you know. So there were a few moments where we were together because we had the same manager for a while, where I don't know if it helped Ben or not, but I really wanted to try and help him. I said, you know, I'd be like, let's go play together, you know, we could do it together tonight, you know, let's just do that, you know. It's nice to think that you have a bit of an understanding and can support a bit, but yeah, people have to be able to be open to to locking into themselves a bit and and and give themselves space to just be a human being for a minute and under try and understand themselves and what's happening. And and when you're in this whirlwind of this merry-go-round is career, again, it's a privilege, but it's very hard to realize what's really going on. And it, you know, we see a lot of DJs party their way through this, and and I understand why it's not just because they like a good time, it's because it's a bit of a crutch, really. Do you know what I mean? And um, it's sad, and we you know, there's no need to mention names now. We all know a lot of people that we've lost, and um, yeah, yeah, it's sad, you know, there's a lot more underneath it all than people think, unfortunately. But uh but again, still an amazing thing to be able to call a job, a living, a career, you know. So, yeah, you've got to be real, you've got to be real, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:34

Definitely, definitely, man. Yeah, thanks for all of that. So, the the last question is something that I ask everybody that comes on the podcast. The page uh for me it completely exceeded expectations in terms of how it's resonated with people and grown and become popular. Yeah, it's amazing, it's so full of positivity, you know. Every every single post, I think I've only ever had like maybe one or two kind of negative comments, and even then, you know, they weren't like you know, people necessarily trolling or being like you know aggressive, and it's such a great space for positively. Nostalgia is obviously the main part of that. What why do you think people are so kind of uh strongly affected by the nostalgia of that particular period? Because you know, I one of the things that inspired the page for me was I was following quite a few 90s nostalgia pages, but I was kind of getting a bit fed up with just like that time and there's the same tunes being repeated over the and I love all of that period, that's why I was following those pages. But as I was like, there's a time that I really connect with that I haven't really been seen represented, and yeah, it's it's it's just impacted like so many people, and it's just such a beautiful thing. So, why do you think that's yeah?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:47

I know I love it that you've done that, man. And regardless of coming on today, and I've known you for a minute too, and you you shared this with me before, obviously, and showed me what you were doing. I think it's great. We uh we all have I mean, I have it with that '91, '92 Wraith era as well, and but also I have that same thing with this in the 2010s because I was so in it as an artist as well. But I think for me, if if I think about it, it's it's that period of time for a lot of people where it's for some people, it might have been that last bit of like real freedom that you have as a younger person coming out of your teens. There's that, it's always a really special time, and the music you've absorbed from 14 onwards is always gonna be play a huge role in your in your life, anyway. So there's that aspect of it, but it's also I I think for me, that was the last big true explosion of something that felt really special. And I know a lot of people will say, Oh, well, the tech house thing was quite big. Of course it was, you know, obviously that was a big thing as well. But I really feel that that was a thing that really came from a different place. This this came from bringing a few different genres together and the vibe of a few different genres, like I was saying earlier, and I think it was um on the musical side just such a special time because of that, and I think because of the melting pot of DJs and lineups that we had again that we reflected on earlier. I think it was quite a special time that I don't know, I I think it will come around again, something similar, but um, I think that was the last time we had it, and I think those things were happening a little bit more often up to that point, yeah. I think there's that, and also I think we've had five years of a hell of a lot of change, particularly in the in the UK, uh aside from the pandemic, but but with things like Brexit and Europe in general, and the state of the world, particularly at the moment, I think people really love latching on to that time. I mean, particularly the UK around 2012 was incredible with the Olympics, with like you know, there were so many things. I don't I can't remember like a time during my life where everything seemed like just sweet as uh everything was, you know, it actually really was. I got I met my wife then and and we got married 2012, like put on a personal tip as well. It was like an amazing time, you know. And I'm a bit older maybe than some people that I love in the page because they're they might, you know, they might be might be quite a bit younger than me, but for me, that's what I take from it, and I think it's just it's the soundtrack to that period of of time, you know, and and there's timeless music. Yeah, we're all that's someone said oh, it's come back around again. It's like, well, I think it's been around. I think everyone's attention has quite rightly been elsewhere. Do you know what I'm saying? Musically and not, but I think I think it's come back around at a really good time, and I and I think some of those people that were going out in the early 2010s, uh to mid 20 2010s, are now maybe gone off, bought a house, might have got hitched, might have had a kid, might have whatever that has happened in their lives, and and they're wanting to reconnect with music, yeah. Uh there's that there's quite simple, quite a simple thing with with with it in that respect as well. And um, there's still music from that time that I didn't play that I that I discovered still when I'm doing these sets that I've been doing. And um, I love that about it as well, about this music that we've got. There's a lot of that as well to be found and discovered still, rather than all the obvious stuff. Yeah, it's it's wicked. But yeah, it's a bit of a long answer, but I think it's I think people just will always search for that little blissful period of their big time life. All their friends, yeah, you know, all the time, and maybe they were at uni or coming out of uni. I know this sound was like I mean, you unis have always been important with music as well, but I think particularly with this one, more so because I had this before with Dave Spoon, and it was never that sound was as big, and it was not really a thing connected to much until the late noughties with Errol Alcan and that electroflashy sound with the student world, but this sound was like massive with the student world, and I think that's a thing too. I think that's a special time of your life as well. Absolutely, but I'm glad everyone's loving it, and I'm loving it as well. Yeah, just keep keep it up, mate. It's good.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:12

Thank you, man. Thank you, and thanks for joining me, man. Thanks for taking the time to chat. It's been like an hour and a half, it's flown by, and there's I'm sure 12 hours of stuff we could have chatted about.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:22

Knowing me, yeah, I can waffle a bit, so sorry about that. But yeah, out to everyone that's enjoying it. Yeah, it's a pleasure to uh for people to still love love the music, you know. It's good. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:35

Yep, Simon's Shadow Child, thanks very much, man. Thank you.