From Dublin Firefighter to Irish Poet: A Story of Grit & Identity (Part 1) | Gerard Devine

Gerry's Social Media:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gerard_devine_poetry

Videos used in this podcast:

The Hurley Maker: https://youtu.be/sFYIz-lzmwE?si=g0eqLbIn0cqwX415

The Quarryman: https://youtu.be/z9rkr1ONVRs?si=Yp0fn5YL-izKQBDM

Website: https://www.gerarddevinepoetry.com/

Welcome back to the Irish Snug Podcast! In this powerful and deeply personal episode, we sit down with Gerard Devine — a man who truly embodies the heart of the Irish spirit.

From walking the thin red line as a full-time firefighter in Dublin City to crafting poetry now taught in the very school he once attended, Gerard’s story is one of grit, resilience, creativity, and heritage. His journey spans continents, trades, and passions — from construction sites in Boston and San Francisco to the firehouses of Dublin, and from the roar of Gaelic games to the quiet reflection of poetry.

In this episode, we dive into:

• Life in the Dublin Fire Brigade and the universal brotherhood of firefighters
• Growing up in Dublin’s north inner city and the legacy of family, culture, and tradition
• Gerard’s experiences working and playing GAA football & hurling across the United States
• The deep-rooted role of Irish communities abroad, especially through GAA clubs and Irish pubs
• His late-in-life journey into poetry — sparked during recovery from a serious injury
• The story behind his powerful poems like The Quarryman, The Poet, The Firefighters Call, & The Hurley Maker.
• How his work has come full circle — now being taught in his old school
• Reflections on identity, pride, hardship, and leaving a legacy

Gerard shares unforgettable stories — from his father’s days in Guinness, to encounters with legends, to the realities of emigration and finding purpose. His poetry, like his life, is raw, honest, and deeply rooted in Irish identity.

This episode is about more than one man’s journey — it’s about tradition, resilience, and carving your mark on the world.

Whether you're a firefighter, an emigrant, a lover of Irish culture, or someone chasing meaning in your own life — this conversation will stay with you.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to the Irish Snug Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:07

All that I have are these hard working hands. No gold, no silver, no throne, nor love have I touched with these tired, calloused hands that have only held chisel and stone. Eyes damaged and poor from the dust of the granite head down for my outlook is bleak. Each breath is a struggle, as my lungs fill with rubble, I stare for cuts when I speak. My back it begs me for a moment's mercy as the peregrines circle above. Oh to rise up like them, to be free from this hell, to spit out this pain and taste love. Had I been born as the son of a farmer, tending to cattle and sheep, to roll up my sleeves, for the tall golden barley a chance to sow and to reap Restful like driftwood washed up on the shore, or the dandelion seed on the breeze. Ah let me be light that weaves between branches as the blackbird song wakens the trees For the heart is a slave where the slabs cut my blade and my prison wall of heighten each day. In this cold quarried pit, every chisel I hit, I feel my life chipping away. But a man finds his worth, pulling rock from the dirt. I'm a king with no use for the crown. I'll grab harder each day for runner not pay till I lay my worn chisel down. Shaping each block that departs from the duck to build landmarks that I'll never see. With these god gifted hands, two beautiful lands, I'll carve out my own legacy. For pride can't be mined. It runs too deep inside. I was blessed with tradition from birth. I know what I am. I'm a proud quarryman whose mark shall be etched on this earth.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

So welcome back to the Irish Snug, everyone. Today's guest is a man who perfectly captures the dual nature of the Irish spirit. He's a man of action and a man of words. For years he's walked the thin red line as a full-time firefighter in the heart of Dublin City, but he's also a craftsman who spent time on building sites from Boston to San Francisco. Beyond the sirens and the sawdust, he is a poet whose work is now being taught in the very halls of O'Connell School where he grew up. We're going to be talking about the rhythm of the fire service, the soul of a hurly maker, and the poet himself. Coming to us from the shadows of the Wicklow Mountains. Welcome, Jared Devine. Welcome to the snug, Jared.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

It's great to be here. I'm um I'm loving what you've been doing. I've I've listened to every episode, and uh it's really uh fantastic to be here. I love and honored to be a part of it, to be quite honest.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

We're both firemen, so I've been really excited to to actually have this conversation. It's always great to talk with somebody on that, you know. We have the same language, the same, you know, even though we're in different countries, we still talk the same language. You know, I always say that. If you uh as a fireman, we could travel anywhere in the world because there's a fire department somewhere in every and every corner of the world, and it doesn't matter if you don't speak the language, you speak the same language. You know what I mean? And and you're welcome in any firehouse. And I love that, and that's it's happened to me. I'm sure it's happened to you.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

Yeah, absolutely. Anywhere, um, anywhere I've gone, if I come across, I I don't necessarily hunt out a firehouse, but like I was in San Fran, for example, there, first time in America in a long time, and walking by a uh a firehouse and uh lads were standing outside, and I just you know just went over to say hello. Like nothing with me to give them. I wasn't looking for anything, but just it just a quick chat, like on uh how you're getting on.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

And let's let's talk about growing up before you even you know set off to America for a little while. Wha what was it like growing up where you grew up?

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Yeah, I it's lucky I um all my family would be Dublin. Um my parents, all my grandparents, except I had one grandfather, he was from Derry, but he came down to Dublin when he was quite young, I think about 14 or 15, and he remained in Dublin. Both my parents were f were all from town, from the city, North Inner City. I had three three brothers, one older brother, Patrick, then there's me, then there's John Kevin, and the youngest is our our sister Helen. Great childhood. I you know, I usual brothers playing, fighting, sharing a room, four of us in the room, all the bros. Helen got her own room, of course. Dad worked in Guinnesses. Dad worked in Guinnesses from the age of fourteen. And back then, my dad is 90 now. I was actually with him yesterday, and uh he's still he's still as sharp as ever, like, and he has remarkable stories about Guinnesses. I know there was uh a show there about Guinnesses and it gives kind of the the layout, but he has the the dressing room stories, if you like, the the the characters, you know, that you can't that they you know, it's like a firehouse.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

You there's just guys you work with throughout a career. Has he shared any stories w about any of these particular characters with you?

SPEAKER_02 6:03

Yeah, I mean there's some good some some about everything from fights to oh there was some remarked well, some some quite sad ones as well, because I guess when you're 90 years of age and you're still knocking around, you're probably the last of the Mohicans. But um I've heard you mention I know you're big into your music, and I heard you talking about the wolf tones before. But when Tommy Byrne was a young man, he was in uh in in the brewery, as they called it, he was in Guinness. And my dad was quite quite good pals with him. You know, we keep an eye out for him. And Tommy said, Look, I'm leaving Guinnesses, which and Guinness's was a great job to have. There was a dad said you were employed from the time you were like 14 to 18, then you were kind of temporary, and then after that, because if they wanted to get rid of you, they could, but after that, at the age 18, you got your full-time contract. So Tommy um was into his music and he said, Look, I'm leaving Guinness's. I'm I'm in a band, an unknown band at the time, and uh I'm leaving, I'm gonna try and make it in the music business. And my dad tried to talk him out of it. He said, Look, you're being crazy, you this is a great job, you know. And uh he's there I gotta follow my dream. So dad said, Uh, well, okay, so and my dad organized uh a whip around and everyone you know threw money into a hat for him. And my dad gave uh Tommy the money, wished him his best, and that was the end. And Tommy never looked back, dad's never seen him since. I've I've seen the Wolf Tones a couple of times, and my dad always says, if you see Tommy Byrne, tell him you're you know, tell him you're Patsy Devine's son, your Patrick Devine's son. And uh I never I never did, you know. Uh I never really got the opportunity, but um come here, there's some there's so many stories, you know. And uh but like for example, the other day we went for a drive. Um dad gets quite breathless when he walks. And it's hard because he was such a big, strong guy, and now it's just age catching up, I guess. But uh I've a nice uh that's a nice, it's old, a pickup truck. So you when you're going for a drive, you you have a nice view, you can see over low walls, etc. So we go up to Holt and we're up there at the summit, and um we're looking out over Dublin Bay and the Bailey lighthouses there at the mouth of at the mouth of uh Hoates there at the mouth of uh the bay. And Dad said, Oh, the there's the Bailey said, We used to have to ring that every day in Guinness's. Oh I why would you ring that, Dad? And he goes, Well, to get the tides, because everything happened up the liffy. The boats the boats went up the liffy, Guinnesses had boats, they'd also have barges, and and nothing could happen if the tide was out. So I it's just so strange now that you can check the tides on your phone. You but back then it was a a different world, different time. And uh only the the procedures, if you like, got onto the staff, the committee, you know, they got promoted, and there was a I don't know if you know the late, late show here. It was the it's the longest running talk show.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

To be honest, I've I've actually been on it. Really? Oh, yeah. Well, you that was not to go off on a tangent here, but yeah, John Daly from the Dublin Fire Brigade, right after 9-11, he calls me up and he says, Timmy, listen, um, they want to do uh uh the late late show wants to give you a phone call and have you on the show just to talk. To be honest, I you know, that was it was so fresh right after 9-11, and I don't even remember what the questions were. Yeah. Uh but they called me and um you know, and we were, you know, they were asking me questions about what it was like and and and that kind of stuff. And at the end of the uh interview, he says, Listen, we have a uh we have a surprise for you. We have a uh a guest in the in the audience here that that knows you. And I said, Really? And he says, Yeah, this uh Tara, she she works for RTE, and she's in the audience. Tara, I went to grammar school with her, and she lives in Dublin now. Well, she lives outside of Dublin. They put her on the speaker. Now I'm talking to her. I'm asking her how her because her dad was a retired battalion chief, FDNY. And her brother is a retired. I don't know if he was a battalion chief. I think he retired as a captain.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Okay, fair.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

But I know the whole family my whole life.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

Small world stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

It is, right?

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

So I didn't mean to go off on a tangent there.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Come here, I do that too. That's fine. Um it's called the Irish Snug after all, isn't it? So yeah, conversations go in every direction. Yeah. A guy called Gabriel Byrne, who's actually he actually lived out in Houte, um he was the host for a long time. And Dad was saying that his brother was the first Catholic to get promoted in Guinnesses. You know, back like back then you could come from you were in the British Army, you could you'd get a job straight in Guinness's, like so just stuff like that that people mightn't be aware of. And you know, you're talking about like visitors, like uh he remembers Andre de Giants visiting Guinness's, and the poor guy could barely move, he was crippled. And um Jesse Owens, he said he's he's a couple of regrets, and one regret is that uh he was passing by Jesse Owens, and he never shook his hand, you know, because Jesse Owens would have been a hero of my dad. And he just he didn't want to hassle the guy, but he kind of regretted not shaking his hand and telling him you know what he thought of him.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

What's the O'Connell school?

SPEAKER_02 11:47

Yeah, so O'Connell's school would be um it's there, it's in town and just in the northern city, and we would have been sent there. Like I'm from Clontarf, and Clontarf, um, I suppose Clontarf is famous for the Battle of Clontarf in 1014, when Brian Baru kicked the crap out of the Vikings. Like the Vikings were like, Oh, we're here to rape and pillage, you know, and they were jog on, we this is our turf. So Brian Baru defeated the Vikings, and while he was saying a prayer in his tent, thanking God for the victory, the guy came in Citric and chopped his head off and killed him, you know. But um so that's what uh Cluntarf was famous for. It's a beautiful, beautiful place to grow up in. I'm right beside the sea and we parked and uh great childhood and walking distance from town, pretty much. But all my family had gone to school in O'Connell's, and the local school to us in Clontarf didn't play Hurlinger football, and we would be a big GAA family. So we were sent to O'Connell's and um great school, but I remember our my very first day a teacher came in and he's wearing like a like a cloak, and he took out this book, and he read out all these names, you know, it was like you know, Timmy Grant, John Daly, Tom McLaughlin, and no one's putting their hand up, he's just going on and on, and no one is saying like I thought it was like a roll call, but no one is like, yeah, I'm here. I mean everyone's just silence. And he goes on, and it must have been about 20 minutes, and he says, Does anyone know who those young men were? Boys like yourself, young men who were who they who who they are, and no one had a clue news. They're students of this school who took part in the 1916 rising. No other school in the country had such a part in the 1916 rising other than O'Connell's school, and that was my introduction. I was like, Whoa, this is like living history. And like uh it was very famous, like Luke Kelly, the singer, would have gone to O'Connell's. Um James Joyce went there, but I think he only lasted three days. I don't think it was any place for a skinny Jesuit, you know, who didn't play hurling um Thomas Kinsler. Oh, there's a lot, there's a lot of there's a lot of kind of famous people went there, but that was my sch my school, and um I would have struggled in school insofar as I had dyslexia. We we six first year classes, about thirty thirty odd in each class, and I was in the top class, I was smart, but um I struggled with dyslexia, so the likes of English especially especially once we once we came on to Shakespeare, I was I had no interest in it for starters. But I struggled with it, it was like a foreign language. But I stuck at it and uh I did honors English for my leaving cert out of stubbornness, but there was like French, for example, languages failed miserably and stuff. But um there was a couple of teachers there. There's a teacher there in particular, Connor Flood, he would he would have taken a good interest in me, and I got away with murder to be quite honest, because I was good at hurling and Gaelic football. So the Christian brothers they were happy once once we're winning. And um I remember being sent down to I was a messer as well, I wasn't I was no angel, but I remember a few of us sent down to the office and I went in last. The first three guys came out with tears in their eyes, okay, and I went in, and the Christian brother said brother Murray said, Uh, Jair, would you like a cup of tea? And I was like, I'm okay, brother. And he goes, Look, we're playing St. Paul's on Friday. How are we fixed? Is Darren Benham still injured? Um, he'll be okay to play, brother. And he just talked about hurling to me. And uh and then just as I was leaving, I said, Can I go now, brother? And he goes, You can't. He said, But do me a favour, we're he's up on the messing, he's up on the messing. And I said, Oh well, brother, sorry about that. You know, you got treated differently, you know, if you were um you were well, you were giving back to the school, I guess. You were you were putting down on the map they had a very proud tradition in Gaelic sports, but it's gas now. Um the same school I would have been in trouble with. Like this year, they're they're doing a piece on the Indie Year book, and they they teach my poetry in that school now, which is which is unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

They're teaching your poetry in that school.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

Yeah, it's great. That's great. I I kept in touch with um I kept in touch with that teacher, Connor Flood. He's a real dub, you know, real good guy. And he retired last year, and I went along. But um, I had a poem called The Hurley Maker, and it was to be in Crow Park on the f on the Sunday, but on the Saturday, Dublin were playing Cork, and I I had a ticket and spare ticket, and I said to Connor, do you want to come in? I have a lovely corporate kind of ticket. And he goes, Oh no, no, no, no, use it. I said, Connor, please, we'll go to waste come in. So the two of us went in there, and my poem was in the match programme, like there's 80,000 people there, and there's my poem in the programme, The Hurry Maker by Jared Devine. And I didn't know it was going to be in the programme, I knew it was going to be on the screen the following day. But Connor was so chuffed, he's shown people that's I taught him, I taught this kid, you know, that's him there, that's him there, and they're going, you know, some kid the size of him, you know. But um it's it's great for things to come full circle, you know. It's lovely, and you don't often get um to thank people until it's too late, you know. You're standing over someone's someone's grave, and you're you're telling them then how great it was, and it's nice, but if you can tell them while they're still living, and I'm a big believer in that, my dad would have taught that to us. Um if you think someone's great, tell them you know.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Yeah, that's good good advice. Yeah. Great advice. What was the decision to come to America? Was that all GAA or was it work?

SPEAKER_02 17:48

It was a bit of both. I I got into college um I started working in I got into UCD doing sports management. I I was on the Dublin under 21 Gaelic football team on the panel. And um I got injured, I got a bad injury in training and I I tore leadaments. And I was trying to get back in time for championship. Uh I didn't make it. But there was a physio there at the time, a guy, James O'Toole from Galway. Uh uh, he was heartbroken for me. He said, Look, I've I've I've friends in uh in Boston. Gaelic football was played in Boston. He said, Why don't you go over there for the summer? You can work, you'll get you'll get paid working, you get you the a job on the building sites, and you just play Gaelic for them and you'll get your accommodation will be sorted and you'll get your flights paid for. And I was like, Oh, okay, you know, so I I went over and like it seems like I I'm 50 now, so like over 30 years ago, it was a different world. I was told to wear my red clontarf tracksuit top, and I'd fly into Logan Airport, and a guy called Keith from Dublin would meet me. So I'm now grand, so I I fly uh into Logan Airport and I was kind of the first of my friends to do this, you know, and it was a big deal. And uh my dad says, like he said, he remembered seeing me off at the airport, he said, I was just like a skinny kid going away. Like it was just you know, it was a big deal. He'd never been to the States, he he never has been, or my parents, or anyone in the family. Um I'm standing in Logan Airport, um my red top on me, a gear bag, and uh now four or five hurls by my side, and a guy comes up to me, he just goes, uh you must be Jair. I was there yeah, you must be Kate. And he goes, I am. He says, Jeez, you're a big fucker. I suppose I am. Are you hungry? I says, Yeah. Man, we get you something to eat and we go back to my house first. You know, we need to ring your mother and tell you I got here safe. And that was it. And he brought me into South Boston, and I remember all the all the IRA graffiti everywhere. And I was like, man, this is unreal. And um then in straight into the Black Rose pub where Keith worked. And great bar like a hamburger, my first hamburger in America, and a pint of orange juice. I was only 19, I couldn't couldn't drink uh illegally a pint of orange juice, and I was in heaven. And so I played um I worked on the building sites there in Boston um and I played uh Gaelic football. I ended up going back for three summers.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

This is what, 30 years ago? Yeah. That's probably about the time they were building that tunnel underneath the city. Does that ring a bell? That does.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

I I remember like this is this is dreadful, but like back then we were working and and playing and drinking. There was no it kind of wasted on me a little bit. I I there was no sense of seeing the sights. Right. It was dreadful, and I think about it. Um like I remember so I hadn't been to Boston Harbor and I was working beside it in the Black Rose and stuff, and but you're you're you shouldn't really have been working anyway. We were illegal, so you're working on the sites, that's fine. And then I did the door on the black rose. I had 19 years of age, and I remember everyone shows ID, as you know, in the States, everyone just just shows the ID. And I'm standing there on the door, and um these guys come up, big guys, and they they're showing me their ID, and they're all cops. I'm like, oh you know, and and I'm like, you know, they're showing me, and I'm reading, and I'm I'm I'm like, I'm my heart is thumping, like because all they have to say is where's your ID? You know, and and I and I'm gone. Yeah. But um how big are you, Jarr? Um B uh I'm I'm six three and a quarter. My dad says, Never forget the quarter, you know. Okay. But like I've brothers bigger than me. Pat is six five, John's six four, uh, I'm six three, Kev is six two.

unknown 21:55

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

So uh they're they're all all big guys. Yeah, I loved it and and then I went to we'd you'd get flown down to New York on a Sunday. If we'd no match, you'd get flown to New York to play a game. So there was the teams down. I'm trying to remember the teams. I remember it was Stanford. Um because I got flown, I got flown over from Ireland for the weekend a couple of times to play to play a Gaelic match. And you get a couple of Bob, like not much, you might get a hundred bucks, two hundred bucks, but what an experience. But so you'd be playing, um, you'd be flown down the domestic flight, and I remember we won a game. I'm trying to remember who I was playing for, but we won a game in New York that we weren't supposed to win, and there was actually four of us. Um two of us were from Dublin and two guys from the north from Fermanagh. And we won this match again. We beat the best team, and we all played really well. And like, you're drinking literally in the showers, you're you're just giving a beer, get that into you, you know. And but it it was the football was it was a different kind of standard of football, possibly not as skillful, but way more aggressive. I remember being in the changing room before a match, I was about 20 years of age, and these guys are all pumping each other. It's like it kind of reminded me uh nearly like ice hockey, this type of level of aggression they were building up, you know. And uh we're gonna beat these, and they start headbutting the lockers. And I'm I'm the only one not headbutting a locker, and I'm like, oh geez, you can't beat them, join them. So honestly, I'm like just come, this is bananas, you know. But that was in Gaelic Park and um Van Courtland Park. Yeah, um, yeah, great, great, great times, great times, yeah. Yeah, great times.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

I played rugby in both of those fields, a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

Yeah, like I've probably been to New York like 13 times, and it was only the last time I was there with the with the fire brigade, actually, in 2006 with a Gaelic team still have, and um that was my first time to see like the Empire State's building or do anything touristy, like because we were just you were just playing football and then going to the pub, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Or do you remember any of the pubs that were right around Gaelic Park there?

SPEAKER_02 24:16

No, you know, I'm I'm listening to listening to your your podcast, listening to the stories, and some of them f sound familiar, but I I can't be I think I think it's Sullivans. Is there no Sullivan's in the game?

SPEAKER_00 24:27

A lot of them are all most of them are all gone now. But like uh characters was was like right up the block from there. That's I saw the Wolf Tones play there like twice.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

They used to play there. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of it's still very Irish, you know. There's still some Irish in that area for sure.

unknown 24:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

They they tore down that that whole building at Gaelic Park where the bar and that little catering area was. They tore that down, sadly.

unknown 24:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

It was very old and fallen apart, but you know, it has so much history.

unknown 24:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Or if they're even gonna do it again. That's the I heard it.

SPEAKER_02 25:13

They were supposed to rebuild it, but Yeah, because it in general the GA are very good at uh pumping money back into the sport, and that's why the sports have survived and have been they're thriving, in fact. You know, like uh women's football now, women's gated football is really come on, and Camogey, which is basically hurling female version of the hurling, um, they've really come on in numbers over the last but like the GA clubs over here, they're the hub of the community, you know. And I know um Des would have been chatting about this and Dermot as well. Like, you know, they they really they really are like you know, everything happens there.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

And um so so you end up making your way over to San Francisco at some point?

SPEAKER_02 25:57

Yes. So um I played three summers in Boston, and then a good friend of mine, Pop Brennan, killed Kenny guy, he said, come on, come on out to San Fran, and um we play hurling over there. So um I loved I loved that. Not that I didn't fall in love with Boston or New York, but I think I was just a little bit older, I was probably about 23. Uh I was legally able to able to to drink. It was a bit more streetwise, um and I loved it, just the beaches, and you could go, you could go like be in the water one day, and next minute four-hour drive, you're in snow. It was incredible. Did you try there?

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Did you go skiing?

SPEAKER_02 26:33

Yeah, I did the snowboarding. I loved snowboarding. Um, there's sometimes you could go up and you just end up in the casino for the weekend, you know, um drinking.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

In all, how long how what was the amount of time you were in the United States?

SPEAKER_02 26:47

Yeah, uh San Fran, I I ended up in San Fran for probably about two years. Because I I stayed over there, uh, had a girlfriend and stuff, and uh yeah, I'd gone over in drips and drives. I actually came home when I got the interview because I went over again when I was a bit older, and I'd done the interview for the fire brigade. I was about 27. And yeah, I did the I did the test, and then I got the test. And my mom said, if you get this test, you have to go for the interview. I was like, okay. So in the meantime, I'd gone back to America, and next thing there's a phone call to the to the pub, St. Stephen's Green. It was the Irish pub I I worked in as well. And um you have an interview. I was there, when's the interview? And she goes, It's like on Thursday or something. I was like, So this is like Tuesday, so I like to get a flight. I arrived home the day before the interview, and I arrived home in the evening. There's no barbers open. I think I I'm a hair kind of longish and dyed blonde and stuff, so one of my brothers just shaved my hair off. Uh, another one of my brothers gave me a suit, and I went in and did the interview, and uh luckily I got it, but I was very ill prepared. Um but then it then it came it was gonna be three years before I got called back for the fire brigade to actually start. So I actually went back to America then for a good while, back and forth. But I loved America, I loved um I loved the Irish bars, and I know it might sound to someone that hasn't been like, why would you why would you leave Ireland and just go to an Irish bar? You know, what's the experience? Because the best crack was the Irish bar. Like there was a reason there'd be a Budweiser sign with a shamrock over, you know, it was to attract people in because the crack in the Irish bars was it was just great, you know. It was it was um it was like a mini mini family, you know, especially when you're away from the world.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

There's two there's kind of well, I don't it it doesn't really exist quite as much anymore, but years ago there were two types of Irish bars in New York City, and it was the Irish American bar, and then there was an Irish bar that pretty much only the Irish were in there. Uh, you know, you and that's where all the games were all the time, and and I you know I did have friends that were from Ireland, so I'd go in with them. I I actually I don't know, when I was younger, I you'd feel more comfortable if you were going into this place with somebody that was Irish, you know. And I don't mean Irish America, I mean Irish, you know. But that that existed. I don't know about anymore. Like Woodside in Woodside in Queens, that there was there were certain bars that was like really it was just Irish in there.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

I I remember playing a couple of games in New York, and you might arrive in the evening before, and I'd have to stay with um be one of the players with their family in there. That was uh Woodside in Yonkers and uh That's Woodlawn.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Woodlawn, Wood Woodlawn, Woodlawn, yeah. Woodside's in Queens, very Irish neighborhood. Woodlawn, very Irish neighborhood. That's actually in the Bronx. And McLean Avenue is the borderline. So you go on the other side of McLean Avenue and you're you're in Yonkers.

unknown 30:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

So you've been through that whole area. Rory Dolan's would be on the Yonkers side, and right across the street is Woodlawn. The Bronx.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

Yeah. It's all it's all very vague to me, but I I know it sounds like I remember just driving along in a in a cab or whatever, and just like I couldn't get over the size of the buildings, the the thickness of the steel beams, and it was all very um very eye-opening like for uh coming coming from Dublin, where uh we got a couple of bits and pieces of high rise here, but nothing in comparison. You know, it was a we were a small city back then, relatively are still a small city. Um but you it just you were seeing everything from the freeway, really. I was just going straight to to Gaelic matches, and then you'd have your your drinks afterwards, and then you were heading back to back to Boston.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

How old were you when you went back to Dublin and got on the fire department?

SPEAKER_02 31:08

Yeah, so I would have started when I was when I was 30. I sat the exam when I was 27, and I then I got it. I the the fire brigade um it wasn't really on my register, uh, and there was a couple of guys in the in the club, firemen, and they said, Look, you should check this out. And I was like, okay. And I did, and the more I looked into it, I went, well, why why haven't I gone for this before? So um I started when I was 30, and uh John Daly would have would have been one of the guys who trained me. I always tell him that I'm a reflection of him. So uh much to his amusement.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

I have a long history with that man. Yeah, we've known that.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

You need to get him on the show.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Huh? You need to get him on the show. I'm gonna, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

He he's a good guy. You know, he's been very um very good to me. Um any any advice I knew. You know, you can obviously every time I see John, we'd be we're both kind of laughing at each other and having the crack. But um there's been a couple of times I've had to have, you know, one or two chats with him, and he's been very good, very helpful, you know. He's a good guy, you know.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

We first met him when well I first met him with uh it was a group of five or six of us that went over to Ireland and I think it was 1995, and we we went to the Rosa Tralee Festival and we marched with the Dublin Fire Brigade pipe band in the Rosa Trulli parade. And that was the first time I met John. But we we met him there. I remember meeting him, Peter Hederman, great crack, great crack. And we did it, I think we did it a couple years in a row.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

You know, but since then we were we've always been close, you know, going over there, him coming here. So at what point did you start writing poetry? Was it before you were on the fire department or after?

SPEAKER_02 33:04

I'm gonna say after, but I had written a couple of poems when I was younger. Um maybe as a kid. And then I remember my early twenties, like my my friend's dad died. I wrote a poem for for him. I'd never kept a copy, it was never never a big deal. And but then it about three or four years ago, I ended up in hospital, I got bitten by a dog of all things, outside of work, bitten on my hand. It was quite a quite a bad bite, and it kind of tore into the ligaments, and I got badly infected. And I was in a hospital for a week, I ended up getting two operations, and I was a little bit low on myself. I was concerned, like I, you know, I'm sure you've been there. If you're injured and you you go to move your arm, you can't move your arm. You I was trying to move my fingers, and there was nothing happening, absolutely nothing. So I was worried about my job, uh the house here, I was I doing all the work of the house myself, and um worried about that. And someone in the job had sent me a poem, you you listened to, and uh I listened to it and I was like, I can write like this, I can I I have stuff in my head, I I should be doing this. So in the hospital bed I started writing my first my first poem, and I was bored stiff anyway. So um then when I got out of the hospital I couldn't work, I was out of work. So I was just sitting at home on my porch and I just started writing, and I'd all these years and years and years of thoughts and memories from from my own life, from travel, from dad's stories, and um y'all can flood me, and I just I wasn't finishing poems, but just putting down notes and just everything was coming to me. And um that's when it started, and I sent I I sent the poem into a competition, uh first poem, one of the first poems, and I I won that. And then I sent the poem to one of the teachers I had who taught me for dyslexia. He used to give me grinds, and I we met, he's a Dunegall guy, we met up years later, as it turns out, in um in Africa. Like so I was volunteering over yeah, I was volunteering, I've been to Africa probably eight or eight or nine times uh building it, working in an orphanage and a school and a hospital, and um we were there's a load of us Irish guys, and he's over there teaching. But um we're at the table and it was his accents, I said to him, I said to him, sorry, did you Michael McGlain is his name? I said, Michael, did you used to give English grimes? And he just stopped, he just put his knife and fork down, he said, Jarr, I thought that was you, he said, but I wasn't sure. He said, uh he said, for what it's worth, he said, you're one of the smart you're the smartest kid I ever thought, and I'm glad you're doing well for yourself. And this was like as regards I got into the fire brigade, I wasn't writing poetry at this time, but that's when we met up again. Because when I when I remember him, big mop of black hair, now he was bald and he'd glasses, you know, you're talking like 25 years later, and to meet up in Africa. So when I started writing poetry, we kept in, we always kept in touch. I sent him a couple couple of my poems, and he was like, Look, this is this is beautiful stuff, and he said, I'm probably biased, so I'm gonna send it on to you know other people. And I just got really good feedback up feedback, and he said, Yeah, you gotta you gotta keep this up. So then I took it from there, and then from there I I wanted to perform it to her side of poem to stand on the stage and do it. And I there was a competition in ingold county Dublin, and I did one of the heats and I won, and then I got into the final and I won that, and then from there I got asked to write a poem for the fire brigade. It just kind of stepping stones, you know, little little ripples, if you like, traveling outwards.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

One thing just led into the other and to the next?

SPEAKER_02 37:16

Just f yeah, very organically. Never tried to push it, never tried to twist words or become an ap abstract writer, just wrote stuff from the heart from the hearts. Um and look, I don't know, it seems to be, I guess. It's working for me. I I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

What was the first poem? What was the first poem you used in your first successful competition that you were in?

SPEAKER_02 37:42

I yeah, it was a poem called um I did a poem called The Quarryman. So the the the poem the the competition was out in Fingal, and I'd written a poem, a true story about uh St. Edith's Hospital, which was a mental institution, you know, a madhouse, as they say, where people were sent. And my friend was doing the restoration involving the restoration of it, and he I wanted to go out and see the architecture of it. I'm interested in that. And he showed me around and he told me a story about it, a heartbreaking story. And I was like, that's incredible. He goes, Will you write me a poem about it to keep it? And I said, Okay. So I wrote that poem and I wanted to perform that poem at it's just called it's called Eat It. I wanted to perform that poem in the competition. But you only have three minutes, and they said, No, you look, you'll uh I said, My poem with the introduction is about three minutes fifteen. Is that okay? And they were like, No. And I was like, What? And I said, I don't care about winning, I just we've never done this before, I'd like to stand a stage. But they were like, Adamants, you can't. I said, look, disqualify me, I just I just want to recite this poem because it's local to the area. And they were like, No, no. I was like, okay. I had another poem called The Quarryman, which is about the quarries up here in Balinocken, and very famous place where the Irish were treated like dirt, to be quite honest, under the British rule. They were basically slaves, but they had so much pride in their work because they worked in quarries before the British came along, and they'd be working, they're still working there now when they're gone. So they had this pride in their work. But I went up there. You know, when you're a fireman, you you hear and see different things. People tend to find to tell you a story that they wouldn't tell others. I got up there for a walk with my dog, I wanted to see the quarries. And I meet the owner, a guy called John McAvoy, chatting away. And he's a nice dog. I said, Thanks very much, nice quarry. As I'm chatting to, like, there's like deer looking at us, there's peregrine falcons circling overhead. It's it's it's it's an amazing place. He said, Tell him I'm in the fire brigade, and he said, Oh, you you must see a lot of bad things. And I said, Yeah, you good days, bad days. And he said, You must go to a lot of suicides. I said, Yeah, unfortunately, we do. And he said, Uh, my own brother hung himself, he was my twin, and he hung himself. And I was like, Okay, yeah. And but he he opened up to me, and I got the impression that um he'd never really spoken about it. He wanted the vent, and so I let him talk. But I walked away from that place, just going, Man, this guy is so stoic, what a what a great guy, just getting on with life, working hard in an amazing setting. So when I started writing poetry, I remember this story. I remember John McAvoy telling me this story. So I said, I'm gonna remember I was saying earlier about if you can get a chance to tell someone how how great they are. Yeah. So this is my chance to to pat him on the back and tell him he's an inspiration. So I wrote a poem called The Quarry Man and I performed that on the stage because I I I didn't want to perform it, but um I the other one would have been overtime, so I went with this quarryman, and when I was on the phone to the woman, she said, Um, oh, and by the way, Jared, we're looking for more of a performance than a recital. And I was like, Alright, so so I'm thinking, how do I perform this? How do I perform this? So, like your good self, I put on a paddy cap, I put on a a white shirt, put some some some dirt onto it, then I got a a lump hammer, and I got a chisel. I said, right, now I now I look like I work in a quarry. And then I'm I'm trying to learn the poem off, and I only have two days to learn the poem. And uh I'm kind of tapping my foot and to the to the rhythm and then I'm thinking, oh, instead of tapping my foot, can't I hit the the chisel with the hammer? So I don't know if you've seen I've I actually haven't shared the poem, but uh so I'm giving the poem. I get up on stage, right? I'm I arrive there, the guy before me was talking about being um a cherry blossom petal petal, pirouetting towards the ground, okay? And I'm just like, okay. And you can fair enough, but I'm I'm like putting on my patty cap, putting on the shirt, and people are looking, what's this guy? Down the back. Then I take out a big rock out of a bag, a hammer and a chisel, and uh I get introduced and I walk up onto the stage. The microphone is up to here, so I had to adjust adjust that. And um I start giving the poem, but when I'm giving the poem, I I'm in that quarry, I'm talking to John McAvoy. I don't give a fiddlers about the crowd. I'm not performing for them, I don't care about this competition. I'm performing to John McAvoy, even though he's not there. I'm thinking of his brother, and I gave it socks, and I get it just to the bit, and I start beating nearly like a bower on beat, nearly uh hitting the hammer. I I remember thinking if I hit my hand it's gonna hurt. And I'm like, to hell with it, I'll just keep hitting it, I don't care. And I get but they had to give they so they announced the winner, they had to give me they had to give it to me because it was undeniably the best poem of the night. And fellows were coming up to me, especially the older guys, were like, I think they were dragged to this poetry recital by their wives and stuff, and they were coming up to me, that's so powerful. I've never heard poetry like that before. This is like fair play to you, and what do you do yourself? And I'm like, Oh my, I'm a fireman, and never do how long are you doing this? My first time, they were like, This isn't crazy. Like the fact that you're a fireman, you're kind of getting an instant bit of kudos, if you like, a bit of respect. And then so I qualified for the final. And for the final, then I'm thinking, all right, this poem is is powerful, this is great. But for the final, then they they have this thing where you have to do two poems. In the final, they have like a semifinal and then a final. I'm like, oh god, like because I'm thinking they maybe must think I'm a one hit wonder, I only have one poem. So uh so for the heat I was like okay I'll do my poem about uh my dyslexia, self-belief, which another poem I haven't shared. It's my man's favourite poem, but that's written from in here, like because because when I tell that poem, I I I'm uh not sound arrogant, but I'm a big strong guy now. But when I'm telling that poem, I'm I'm I'm a scared 15-year-old kid again. And uh geez, I get upset thinking about it. So I did that poem as my first poem and it got me through, and then in the final the shirt came on, the white shirt. Um one of the local stonemasons gave me his hat and waistcoat for look, you know. So like I'm representing Bally knocking now. I'm representing these guys. These are so proud of me that I'm you know that I'm putting their place on the map. And um Bally knocking granite was used extensively around Ireland, but extensively in Dublin City, where it became known as the skeleton of Dublin, like the GPO was made of Bally knocking granite. Um so you're kind of educating people, like and I feel like I'm representing them, I'm representing John McAvoy, I'm representing I'm representing them all. So um I won that, and next thing I I got on to national radio, and they because I'm a fireman, you're like firefighter wins fingal poetry competition, kind of near nearly kind of headline-y type stuff, because it's such an unusual you know, you don't associate firefighters with writing poetry. One of the guys in work had asked me to write a poem about the fire brigade, and I was like, okay. So then when I wrote the firefighters call, there's one of the senior men in our job, a guy Paul Hand had passed away, and Paul was in he was in the Stardust fire and everything, and he's and he told me about it, and again I I felt he was venting. I never worked directly with Paul, but he always had great time for everyone. Uh, he'd never pass you by, didn't care how long you were in or anything, just a real a real good guy. And I couldn't get to his funeral because of the way shifts are someone's gotta someone's gotta work, you know, someone's gotta do Christmas Day, if you like. So this was I was working this day and I couldn't get off for the funeral. And I remember uh kneeling in my in my kitchen, saying a little prayer for him at 11 o'clock that day. But so when I was asked to write this poem, I said uh I imagine Paul standing beside me to make him proud. Sorry, get a bit upset. But uh so I wrote the firefighters call and uh From the Hearts for the likes of Paul because um I I genuinely believed this that um firefighters of of Paul Hans ilk, they don't leave the fire ground, like the souls of great sailors haunt the waves. I think the same is it can be said for firefighters that they're there looking out for us, and um so when I was on the radio, they said, I heard you wrote a poem and uh about the fire brigade and it won a competition. I said, No, no, and but they didn't want to hear the quarry man poem or the self-belief poem. They they just wanted to hear the fire brigade poem. Would you recite the fire brigade poem? And I did, and um next thing kind of people wanted to buy the poem, and I'm like, oh god, I don't want to make money from this, it just feels so wrong. So, but people wanted to buy it, so we have a charity in work, um Oscar's Kids, and it's kids with terminal cancer. It's a it's a beautiful charity set up by parents of a kid called Oscar, and the kid passed away, and they set up this charity to help other parents going through the same thing, and they get in indoctrinated into the fire brigade, into double fire brigade, they get their their Wii uniforms, they get their badge number, they go to the station, the lads make a big deal of them. It's it's absolutely beautiful, and it could be something as simple as the money goes to raise a little lap laptop or a a trip to Disneyland or whoever their favourite football team is to get to see them, and it's it's just a wonderful thing. But yeah, we raised thousands, the poem raised thousands, and uh there was a a whiskey uh whiskey company. I'll probably go sorry if I'm going off on tangents here, but basically uh a whiskey company wanted to put my poetry onto uh their bottles with a whiskey, we've a whiskey club in work called the 1875 whiskey club, after the great Dublin whiskey fire of 1875. So we're in there in the palace bar, that's where we have our nights, and at the end of the night, the lads were like, Care, will you give us a poem? I was like, Oh, okay. So I did a poem, I I I can't I think it was a poem called The Amber Dame, which is written in such a way that you think it's about a woman, but it's actually about whiskey. Anyway, the guy was there, guy and a girl, the reps from the whiskey company were like, What's this? It's incredible. You've given me an idea. Long story short, uh they want to put my poetry onto whiskey bottles. I was there grand. So the first one they did was the Quarry Man edition. I don't know if you see that there are two stacks whiskey, and it's um but it has the Quarry Man poem on it, it has an image of of John McAvoy on the on the on the bottle, and then it comes with a little the poem, the the poem on the back, and that's that's Dave McAvoy.

SPEAKER_00 49:23

Like what a photograph, like and this is in every one of their bottles that they yeah, so it's it's there.

SPEAKER_02 49:29

The you can see this one is uh but it's good as has my my little logo there, the image of uh I'll have to get a bottle of that next time I'm over. Yeah, well it's all out, but uh definitely give you a taste of it. But um again, the sales from that uh we uh donated to uh donated to Oscar's kids. I went to the charity, um, which was great.

SPEAKER_00 49:58

But they're doing they're do the next one they're doing is they want to do the firefighters call. We have the twenty-fifth anniversary of 9-11 um this September. I have the firefighters call right in front of me here. Would you would you want to recite that one for us?

SPEAKER_02 50:15

Yeah, I'll recite whenever you want. Yeah, I can no problem. So, yeah, this is called Firefighters Call. And um just a little thing on this, Tim. When I was asked to write this, as I said, it was just after Paula passed, and um I wrote down every single word you would associate with the fire brigade is in flames, trucks, bravery, uh cats and trees, you name it, and I said, I'm not gonna use any of these words. I'm just gonna write about what called us to the job, what's expected of us when we're in, and probably most importantly what happens, what I feel happens when we're gone. So this is called the firefighters' call. It's not for fame or fortune that most deem necessary. No. I invest to don a crest for work less ordinary, nor be it want of medals, cap or polished shoes, but a calling to help others who have everything to lose, to face hell's dancing angels and suppress them with each stride, to search resolve from deep within, as loved ones weep outside, to stand with pride and dignity, when comrades re remember, be it pipes lament that fills sad air or silence in September, and may those names that have been etched in brass or granite stone haunt me in the darkness so I never fight alone, and if a colleague's head hangs low from tasting tragedy, let me offer up my shoulder for them to lean on me. But when, alas, amazing grace is played for none but me, lower the flag, but raise a glass for I'm not far from thee. I'm gathered with the old flames, looking down from God's great height, on call if aid be needed, to join you in the fight.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

Absolutely absolutely unbelievable. I I love it, Jar. Silence in September.

SPEAKER_02 52:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:46

That that that rings with me for sure.

SPEAKER_02 52:49

I didn't want to mention any um there's no mention of any there's no mention of Dublin Fire Begade or New York or anywhere, but I I think you have to pay there has to be uh a hat off to um to 9-11 because it it f it's the benchmark of bravery, really. So that just that line, I wanted to get some mentioned it in some way.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

I think it just you couldn't have done it any better. It it was it's absolutely perfect.

SPEAKER_02 53:17

Well I wanted a contrast between a pipe's lament that fills that air. So the air's so one occasion the air's full of noise, the noise of the of the of the of the bagpipes, and then the opposite of that is the silence.

SPEAKER_00 53:33

From noise to silence, so so it's well your words definitely um I mean they they definitely you you pick the right exact word for every sentence. It's like it just it's so thought out.

SPEAKER_02 53:48

I think that poem could only be written by by a firefighter, you know?

SPEAKER_00 53:51

It doesn't agreed, which there aren't really, I would say there's not many firemen poets. So that's what makes it even more special, I think. Let me ask you, who was your inspiration in in writing poetry? Like, is there have you ever thought about writing music, like writing songs? Is there is there like Luke Kelly or or sh uh Shane McGowan or yeah?

SPEAKER_02 54:19

So um they'd be my biggest influence other than poets. Like I'm kind of like who's your favorite poet? I I don't really have a favorite poet per se. I like her poem here, I like the poem, I like Yates, I like Robert Frost, I you know, I I I like I like Patrick Captain, I like the I like Ragland Row, but there'd be another poem I wouldn't like. But music. I was always big into music. My my family are big into music. My mother's an opera singer, and uh we grew up we grew up around opera of all things. Um every Sunday was opera day in the house, and we could be hungover as a young young kid, or whatever, and Mamma would be like, get out of bed, you have to play a match, and blah blah blah. As I said, my brother's a songwriter, professional songwriter, my older brother Pat. And um I'm big into the lyrics, so I I love Shane McGown. I I love Lean Clancy, um, I love Luke Kelly. They're my influences, because they for me, they're poets. Like, how can you s how can you dare say that Shea McGown's not a poet? See, everything the world is so um I have to be careful what I say here. I end up getting cancelled, Tim, but um this kind of thing where everything's a poem. I I don't run with that, you know, because it's it's lowering the bar, I think. You know, like you could go into a restaurant and read the menu and call it a poem. Like where where where's the lot, you know? Here's my poem. It's called The Menu. You know, like so soup of the day with fresh brown bread, you know, like it's banana stuff. So, but these guys, these Shane McGowan, Christy Moore's, they're undeniably brilliant at what they do.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

There's a there's a YouTube video with Shane McGowan and Christy Moore, it's a short little video where they're singing a pair of brown eyes together. And Shane talks about he's talking about uh, I'm sorry, Christy is talking about Shane and how he says that Shane told him, he says, I don't want to be a poet, I don't want to be an actor, I don't want to be a writer, I just want to be a singer. And and then Christy says, Well, of course he's a poet, and of course he's an actor, and of course he's a comedian, and of course, you know, he's all those things. But Shane just said, I just want to be a singer. But uh somebody had I had read somewhere, uh, I love the song Pair of Brown Eyes. And I've seen I've seen it written somewhere where this somebody said that it's the greatest song ever written.

SPEAKER_02 57:04

Yeah. I've seen Shane McGown a few times. I got I got to s to see him a few times. I remember um he was playing in the Olympia one one time and uh he'd have a cigarette and he was drunk as hell. And when the cigarette would fall to the floor, the roadie, you know, like a roadie comes out with a guitar or something, Roadie would come out, put a cigarette into his own mouth, light it on roost to Shane, and by the time he got to Shane, take a drag out of it and put it into Shane's hand.

SPEAKER_00 57:38

But I love I love all those, everybody you mentioned, Luke Kelly, Christy Moore, Shane.

SPEAKER_02 57:42

I remember being away from home, being actually in in Boston and really kind of discovering uh Shane Miguel. Like I would have heard him, but we had parties, we'd we'd always play him. One of my pals was big into him, The Broad Majestic Shannon. It's probably my favourite Poe song that he wrote for Lean Clancy, and he wrote that on like a cigarette box type thing, and Lean couldn't make out the words, and he wrote it down again. And you know, we we sat for a while near a gap in the wall, found a rusty tin can and an old hurling ball. It's just amazing, you know. I I was beside him at an airport once, and I I I could have said hello to him. And it was probably my like I said, my dad with Jess with Jesse Owens that time. I kind of regret not just shaking his hand, but I didn't want to bother the guy. He was it looked like he was having a gin of some sort. Clear, clear alcohol in a in a glass. Uh I just nah everyone I I just let him off.

SPEAKER_00 58:41

The bar I was telling you about before that was right around the corner from Gaelic Park was characters, and I told you I saw the wolf tones there.

SPEAKER_02 58:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:49

And um Tommy Byrne was sitting at the bar after, I don't know if it was in between sets or it was after, but that it was one of those settings where you could once they're done playing, like you could you could sit there and have a beer and talk to him. You know, it was that kind of a setting. And I remember sitting at the bar and I I asked him who he thought was the greatest Irish singer of all time, and I s I said that I thought Luke Kelly was the greatest Irish singer of all time. And and he agreed with me. He said, And he also told me that he had met him, like you know, that he had hung out with Luke. So um that was it was a good conversation, you know. Something I remember. I'd be curious if he if he remembered that conversation. That's great.

SPEAKER_02 59:32

Yeah, you told that in one of your podcasts, didn't you? You you told that in one of your stories.

SPEAKER_00 59:36

I did, I think I did. I think I did mention that.

SPEAKER_02 59:38

Yeah. Um I never like, but like I said, he he went to my school, you know, so that gives you that little bit of uh hometown pride, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 59:45

Um so I've read, you know, most of your poems that you sent me, and I do have to say that one of my favorites for sure, and you mentioned it, that it's your mom's favorite, is the poet.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:01

I I I've read it, I've read it ten times, and you mentioned that you've had fought with this dyslexia, so I understand where the poem, you know, is rooted and where where it's coming from, but it really can be applied to to people, somebody that felt they were being bullied, or another another thought I had was it could be applied to England, you know, 800 years of oppression. I mean, uh that that's what I'm yeah, that's what I read between the lines. It could be a you know, it's very subjective a lot of times, poetry, but that's that's the beauty behind it, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:41

Yeah, that's what they say. A good poem is um it's open to, you know, it's open to your own interpretation.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:48

Interpretation.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:48

Um, and I mean it songs as well. Uh you know, sometimes I I'm I I I love uh I love rock music as well, and I'm listening to tune, and I think it's about a certain thing. And then my wife, Steph, who like she'd be like, that's not about that at all, that's such and such. And I'm like, Oh, you're killing the romance. So I I thought that was about like something so you can read a poem, and now I I know why I wrote that poem, but certain words I'll put in there for a reason. It could be for very personal reasons, but if that poem helps someone, and actually that poem, The Poet, I'm glad you picked that out. Actually, again, I've never I've never shared that poem. Yeah, my ma'am loves it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

Would you share it with us right now? Could you recite it?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:33

Okay. So this is called The Poet. You numbered me with sheep to follow weaker men, but Wolf ripped off his clothing, blood flowed within my pen. You sank me to the ocean floor where talent cannot burn. But I'm the one who rises. You are just my churn. You tied my feet with boundaries, you dimmed my sight with fear, you screamed at me with insult to the point I could not hear. You caged my aspirations, you filled my thoughts with doubt, but now the cage is open, the lark is flying out. When demon drove a spear in me a quest to kill my pride, I grabbed it by the blade and pulled it through the other side. I carry that spear with me into every single fight. The blood pours from the spearhead into everything I write.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:48

Powerful, powerful. Thanks, brother. There's a line in there where you say I'm the one who rises, you are just my churn. And I think, I mean, this is what my interpretation is that you know, at this point, you're you're like at the bottom of the sea, and that's where the churn, that's where the agitation is. But the agitation in the water is what creates the foam at top, right? So that's that was my interpretation. Am I am I interpreting that right?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:20

I see, I guess there's no the cream rises to the top, right? Exactly. Exactly. That's that's the whole point. So you know the expression you've talents to burn. You know, you he's got talent to burn. I don't know if you use that expression in Mary, but over here, like that that kid's got talent to burn. Um yeah, but something won't burn if it's underwater. And then the cream always rises, and cream, like you said, and cream is kept in a churn. So if if the the cream has to get out of the churn to rise, you know. But you know, you you sank me to the ocean floor where talents cannot burn. You you you put me right down there where the only place I cannot shine is right down there. Um, but I'm the one who rises on the cream. You're just my churn. You're just holding me. That's that's you're nothing to me. You're I I'm coming out, I'm coming up. It's breaking out of the shekel shekels. It's kind of it that that whole poem, I guess, really comes down to uh self-confidence, really, you know, self-belief. That it that was I was actually gonna call the poem self-belief. Um, like you said, it could be anything that that holds you back.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:32

You know, so and and your past uh experience with dyslexia is really what drove this particular poem, correct?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:40

For me, that's what this poem is about. I feel like I was a wolf in sheep's clothing. You know, I was just I was just waiting for the right time. That's sort of opening line. Blood flowed within the pen, my blood flowed within my pen. So like sheep are kept in a pen, but I'm talking about the pen that writes so words like that. And also, I used the word um you caged my aspirations, you filled my thoughts with doubt. You know, people that just keep knocking you, knocking you till you start actually doubting yourself. But now the cage is open, the lark is flying out. And I could have used it, I could have said the bird is flying out, the swallow is flying out, the whatever, the cockatoo is flying out, it doesn't really matter. But I I use the lark in particular because the lark is a beautiful singing voice, it's known for this. But if you put a lark in a cage, it will never sing again and it will die out of loneliness. And it was for this reason that the lark became known as the bird of freedom. Like Bobby Sands wrote about the lark a lot. Um it's a bird that cannot be held in captivity, and it has a voice that should be heard. So, in a romantic way, it became the bird of freedom for Ireland. So that was that was why I used the lark in particular. And like you said, it could be relating to England. That line it definitely is relating to England. Absolutely, yeah. And that's that's what it is, because it it shouldn't be held in captivity. No bird should. But especially one with such a beautiful voice, and it's um I grew up luckily of watching Van Damme films and watching Rocky, and it was always they were great. It was about overcoming obstacles, overcoming, you know, the kid that gets beaten up in school and comes back and beats up the bully one day, he trains and trains, you know. And and he can apply that to life, you know. And so the end of this poem is like when you're like when Demon drove a spear in me, the demon for me is dyslexia, um drove a spear in me, a quest to kill my pride. Remember the Indians would would grab the arrow and pull it through like instead of like you you're not gonna kill me. I'm I'm I I got this. This making me stronger, and the blood pours from the spearhead into everything I write. I don't just sit down and write a poem, but you gotta give it more respect. I I I I write it, I I put everything into it. I I research it if I have to. I I if I'm writing I don't know. If I'm writing about uh anything, I I any any topic, I I research, I want to get the phrases right, I want to do it justice to the to the person I'm writing about.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:24

It has to mean Share, I I think you're nailing it though. I mean you really are. I've read I've read a bunch of them. I wish we could go through all of them. That one the Hurley Maker, you there was there was a video that I saw. Was that a commercial or what what was that?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:39

Yeah, so the Hurly Maker, there's a guy in work, a guy called Brian Hughes, and he's he's I I I always knew he was into trad music. Brian's a quite a modest guy. He retired there a couple of years ago. And he said to me, Do you ever think about putting one of your poems to music? And I said, I hadn't hadn't really. Um he said, Okay, send me one of your poems that you think would be suitable. So he's into his GAA, into his Gaelic football and hurling. So I I had a poem called The Hurley Maker that I'd written. And when I was a kid, my dad used to used to fix my hurls, and he taught me how to fix hurls. I never made a hurl from scratch. But I used to fix them and I used to fix them for other players as well in my in my club. And I used to go and get my hurls, I'd go to a hurly maker, and you're you're in this workshop. Imagine Max Sordies with with just one person in there making hurls, just memorabilia everywhere. That's that's what you're in. It's you're in the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:39

That's a great that's a great picture to paint, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:42

Yeah, so sawdust all over the floor, all over the hurley maker's eyes. Half the time he doesn't hear you because there's so much sawdust on the floor. And um you go in and they're always dead friendly. And sometimes it'll be a younger guy, and the reason it's a younger guy is because his father's got too old. There's maybe arthritis in the hands or the eyesight's gone, whatever. So now the the younger son is carrying on the tradition. So, like you're going back years, like hurling has been around for thousands and thousands of years. So I I it's just a massive part of our culture, and for me, it's up there with harp making or crook making. It's it's a beautiful thing. So, um when I wrote about the the hurling maker, I I wrote that poem. I'm thinking of my I'm thinking about my dad, who's 90 now, you know that way, who taught me he was a brilliant pair of hands, but he never they never had he never had the money for good tools and stuff. He he tells a great story about memory being in a going by a bicycle shop, going by a window and looking up. He said he he was saving up to buy a saddle. He never had a bike, but he wanted to buy his saving up to buy a saddle. Imagine, you know, how lucky I am that I have all these things that that dad, because of dad's hard work. So I wrote this poem anyway, I showed it to Brian. Brian loved it. He got it, you know. He says, Oh, this is lovely. I'm gonna write music for him. So we went to he wrote some music. We went to a recording studio in Wicklow. My first time being in a recording studio. Brian put down what's the expression, laid down the pipes that they hear him playing the Illen pipes. As I like I said, I knew he was into trad music, but he's a world champion. Illen Piper, this guy, he's so modest, right? He's CDs out and everything. Uh, like ask the lads in the pipe band about Brian Hughes, they all they all know him, they home hold him in great respect. So next week we had this I can't believe how well I sound, not in an argument, whatever way the pipes bring out the the voice, the voice brings out the pipe, everything just compliments each other. So then we say, Let's try and make a video. And my brother-in-law had said to me, Um he owed me a couple of favors and he said, Look, maybe I can make a video for one of your poems sometime. So I said, Simon, is this offer still a bit for grabs? And he said, Yeah. So he's like Killick Productions, K-I-L-I-G. That's his his his business. That's what he does full time. So he said, Dave, we need a location. I said, Can we shoot it in my garage? And he goes, Yeah, and he told me what I needed to do. It took six months to get my garage ready. I have a lot of old carpentry tools, I collect the old planes. Another guy in work, another great, great fireman, um Dave Horn. He uh if someone is retiring if they're getting a presentation or that, Dave will make the presentation or he'll polish up the axe brilliant pair of hands. He polished up all my old tools and we set the scene. But now I needed someone to play the part of a hurley maker. I I didn't want to do it. I I I don't think I f I f I I just didn't want to do it. Um so I thought about getting an actor, but I couldn't afford to pay one. So my local barman, Alfie, he's a great guy, and he's a big pair of hands, he's a stonemason by trade. Everyone around here is a farmer or a stonemason. And he said he'd do it, and we shot the video, and it just lovely warm tones. It's on my Instagram thing, if you have a look.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:20

I'm back to the play, it's Theo English to Mackie McKenna for Tipperary, and Mackie walking his way past Pat Dylan, the food back Mackie McKenna still going through take this shot, and it's all from a bag for true shell for true appreciation, you must meet the man himself for still that is okay, true lifelong dedication weathered hands pass knowledge down to younger generation fillers your dog as you push the workshop door.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:21

The maker doesn't hear you as you spread the thornous floor hurling break the door than the sun, remember the short of timers to beat the bundle raise the perfection by the plane chipping all the wooden cutters, the brain follows the grain brings the boy shaving start the card creation through the plane the makeup round the edge the bottom of the makeup for the morning just the makeup It's fond memories that we saved. So next time you speak perfection, go and meet the early maker. But long story short, um the poem made its way into Crow Park, like our our which is our national stadium, and it was played on the big screen. It's like a 50-foot screen, and it's up there, the poem, and then the footage I used, and there's all photographs and that they're all my dad's Front Harf's first ever teams and Dublin teams. Um photograph there, an original photograph of the great Chrissy Ring from Cork. But the last photograph is an old black and white photograph of my dad's team in Crow Park, and it's from 1957, and he's wearing the paddy cap. He said he never wore it plain, but he they wore it he wore it for the photograph because a few of them have it on because it was so cold that day, and it's the old Crow Park and the history of Crow Park. I mean, the the Brits, the black and tans shot people dead in Crow Park. So I'm there with Steph in the stand. My poem has been played on the big screen in Crow Park, like what what an honour. And then I'm interviewed on the pitch by uh Dohy O'Shea, who'd be one of our kind of TV celebs, great guy, lovely guy. And um he's waiting with a microphone to interview me, just as the poem was coming to a close. And as it's coming to a close, I turned to him and I said, Uh I'm doing all right for a chancer. And he just says, Tell me about it, you know. So we kind of hit it off, you know. And then um but then I got a I got an email there to say that the GA Museum, they're doing up the GA Museum, and they're doing a big archway, an artificial big archway of a an ash tree, which hurls are made of, and there'd be hurls coming out of it, and they want to incorporate the poem into the into the the archway. Um I said, Oh amazing, yeah, that'd be that'd be fantastic. Yeah, so so it's going into the Crow Park Museum now, the poem, which is incredible, really, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:46

Yeah, that's great. That's great.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:49

I I've had a few little walks in the sun with the poetry, um a few great moments, and I think they have the the poem of Crow Park, that's definitely gonna be right up there, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:00

So um, I hope you keep going with the poetry and I hope please keep sending me anything that anything new that comes out because I I I mean I think it's great. I really do.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:15

I I I love it. You you've you've inspired me to want to read more, you know. It's and what more can you ask? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:24

That's no, that's great.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:25

I uh as I get older, I feel like you're always you you you're getting exposed to different things that you never were exposed to before, and and you know, i it's nice to be able to appreciate you know, uh uh you you were sort of a catalyst, I guess, for me to appreciate your poetry. So now it it does open my eyes to maybe look into more, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:50

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:51

But it but it's unless you just want me to read yours and that's it.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:58

Yeah, yeah, that's it. But uh but like look what you're doing with your podcast. You know what I mean? Like why didn't you do this 20 years ago? You probably weren't in the right headspace, or even ten years, like you you found it now.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:10

You know I can say that all day long.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:13

Yeah, and then that's how I feel about the poetry, and it it's amazing, really. It's very hard to explain. As I said, I played Gaelic football and hurling all my life and I I don't know if this is a substitute for it or whatever, but I'm very passionate about it. And and the years I didn't write, well they're gone, it doesn't matter, but I still have those memories, I still have those stories, and it's a matter of just trying to get them on onto a page. And I've loads of poems written. I I've almost 70 poems written that I'm really happy with. I've shared very few, maybe ten. And er everyone has kind of gone on to yeah, has hit someone in a certain way, which is lovely. Like um I I love it. And I I I remember you were talking, uh you were talking uh one of your podcasts about like when the Americans come over and you maybe put on the you know top of the morning accent and this type of thing. And but the St. Patrick's Day that just went there that was the best St. Patrick's. I I try and get to all of them since I joined them 20 years in now in the job. That was the best St. Patrick's Day because the Yanks, if you like, were there. It was known. You you guys brought so much pride, happiness. I know you're on your holidays and everything, but it was it was just the atmosphere of it. Like, so don't forever for one minute think like you're imposing. We love you guys, and we love the fact what you're doing and Eddie Bowles and all these guys, but you know, you're keeping that Irish culture alive, you know, you're you're keeping it um the expression blowing on the ambers of an almost dead thing, like it's you can you can get it back, and um it's happening in Ireland because I think so many I suppose Dublin Ireland's becoming very European and all these different cultures coming in, and fair enough, but the centrepiece has to be the Waterford Crystal on Irish Lennon. Do you know what I mean? We we have to keep our this is Ireland culture, it's our culture. We've we we've a great culture, we've always been on the right side of history. Um a lot of I know a lot of Americans identify themselves uh uh as Irish for a bloody good reason. You know, I've been h I've been I've been to I've been on holidays to us to to Australia, Germany, these places, and I've been homesick and I've only been away from home for two or three weeks. People left these shores and never saw them again. But you know, it's it must be heartbreaking. And so I don't know what it's like. So when I I I hear about what you're doing with the Irish Snug, I I think it's fantastic. I'm I'm loving the podcast. I'm looking forward to uh to hearing more of them.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:01

Well I appreciate that. I appreciate that, Jared. So listen, Jerry, it was it was so great having you on the podcast. And I'll tell you what, what I'd like to do in in the future, you know, a little bit down the road, we'll we'll do another podcast with uh maybe some of your newer poems. And I can't wait to get over to Dublin and we'll uh we'll share a pint together and uh have some stories uh maybe in a snug somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:29

Absolutely. But now thanks for it.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:31

All right, Jared. Well, you have a great day.