SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the First Presence Sermon Podcast, where each week we dive into scripture, and discover how faith intersects our lives.
SPEAKER_00: God's word meets us where we are, challenging us, shaping us, calling us into something greater.
SPEAKER_00: No matter where you are on your journey, you belong here.
SPEAKER_00: And we're praying that this sermon might help you take a next step in faith towards Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Hey, let's dive into today's message together.
SPEAKER_01: Good morning, church.
SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Isaac.
SPEAKER_01: Good to be together in the house of the Lord, in the presence of the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: It's good to sing praises to him, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01: And you know that the Lord inhabits the praises of his people.
SPEAKER_01: So just as Jesus said to his disciples, wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am.
SPEAKER_01: As we're singing, as we're praying, as we're looking to the Lord, he's good.
SPEAKER_01: As we draw near to him, he's good to draw near to us.
SPEAKER_01: And so we sense his presence.
SPEAKER_01: That's what you sense when you come into this place.
SPEAKER_01: You sense the presence of the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: And so it's so good to be together and strengthened by his presence.
SPEAKER_01: We're in Romans 12.
SPEAKER_01: I encourage you to open your Bibles, navigate to it.
SPEAKER_01: If you don't have a Bible, we want you to have one.
SPEAKER_01: If you don't have a Bible, you need one.
SPEAKER_01: And we've got a bunch in the back.
SPEAKER_01: Mr.
SPEAKER_01: Collins is standing right there.
SPEAKER_01: And if you need a Bible, we want to get you a Bible.
SPEAKER_01: But we're in Romans 12, and we've been studying in Romans 12 about how to be shaped, how to be formed into the likeness of Christ, how to become a living sacrifice.
SPEAKER_01: And so as I read this in just a minute, you need to be picking up and thinking, okay, this is a list of things, a list of items that it's asking the question, how can I be a living sacrifice shaped to reflect Jesus?
SPEAKER_01: As we open our scriptures, let's pray.
SPEAKER_01: Your word, O Lord, is a light to our feet, a lamp on our path.
SPEAKER_01: You're showing us the way of life.
SPEAKER_01: And so we pray that you'd open up our ears and our minds and our hearts, teach us, shape us, correct us, encourage us.
SPEAKER_01: For we need you, Jesus.
SPEAKER_01: It's in your name that we pray.
SPEAKER_01: The church said, Amen.
SPEAKER_01: Romans 12, 14 to 21.
SPEAKER_01: Bless those who persecute you.
SPEAKER_01: Bless.
SPEAKER_01: Do not curse.
SPEAKER_01: Rejoice with those who rejoice.
SPEAKER_01: Mourn with those who mourn.
SPEAKER_01: Live in harmony with one another.
SPEAKER_01: Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.
SPEAKER_01: Do not be conceited.
SPEAKER_01: Do not repay anyone evil for evil.
SPEAKER_01: Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone.
SPEAKER_01: If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
SPEAKER_01: Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written, it is mine to avenge, I will repay, says the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: On the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, feed him.
SPEAKER_01: If he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
SPEAKER_01: In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.
SPEAKER_01: Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
SPEAKER_01: This is the word of the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: We say, thanks be to God.
SPEAKER_01: How do some trees last forever and some trees fall over and die and perish?
SPEAKER_01: How does that happen?
SPEAKER_01: You ever like some trees they go on and on, they make it forever.
SPEAKER_01: They've made it through everything.
SPEAKER_01: They make it through a wildfire.
SPEAKER_01: They're still there.
SPEAKER_01: Have you ever looked at a tree that's really big and wide and strong and just sort of for a minute just imagined how many things that tree had to go through to make it to the point where they are?
SPEAKER_01: It's pretty wild to think about.
SPEAKER_01: How do some things last and some things go away?
SPEAKER_01: I do like the saying an oak tree is just a nut that held its ground.
SPEAKER_01: Right?
SPEAKER_01: Okay, maybe it's not that funny.
SPEAKER_01: But I like that saying.
SPEAKER_01: Because it's hard to hold your ground, actually.
SPEAKER_01: An oak tree is just a nut that held its ground.
SPEAKER_01: When uh some things last, some things don't, you know, some things uh they spark off and they go for a minute and then they fall flat.
SPEAKER_01: Some businesses they they go really big and then they they come crashing down.
SPEAKER_01: Other businesses last for generations.
SPEAKER_01: Some restaurants they open up and they close, some go on and on.
SPEAKER_01: Uh some churches shoot up really fast and then only sadly to kind of topple over tragically, and and others, others last.
SPEAKER_01: How can we be a part of something that lasts?
SPEAKER_01: How can we be sustained as a living sacrifice?
SPEAKER_01: Abigail and I lived for our first year uh when we were married in Washington, D.C.
SPEAKER_01: And and I remember I was in seminary, and uh I remember walking uh through the woods, a little trail through the woods in between housing divisions, and I was walking down the trail the day after a hurricane had skirted the East Coast.
SPEAKER_01: And there were lots of different kinds of trees in there.
SPEAKER_01: It's out east.
SPEAKER_01: There's lots of trees.
SPEAKER_01: Some of these trees are so big you can hardly get your arms around them.
SPEAKER_01: And then some of them were just like thin trunk trees that seemed to just shoot up really fast in the middle of the of the woods.
SPEAKER_01: And as I walked along the day after the storm, what do you think I saw?
SPEAKER_01: What were those little trees doing?
SPEAKER_01: They were crashed, right?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they were they were down.
SPEAKER_01: And they were down uh because uh they had shot up really fast.
SPEAKER_01: And they were scattered all over the trail, like you had to jump over them, you had to get around to keep going, you had to sort of, then they they just they'd all collapsed in the wind.
SPEAKER_01: But the old trees, the old trees, looked at some of the old trees, and they just looked just a little irritated, was all.
SPEAKER_01: Just like a little peeved.
SPEAKER_01: And I remember walking and praying and asking the Lord, as you lead me into ministry, Lord, would you lead me into a big tree kind of ministry?
SPEAKER_01: Jesus said to his disciples, You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit, fruit that will do what?
SPEAKER_01: Fruit that will last.
SPEAKER_01: See, I'm not talking about like because it's big.
SPEAKER_01: I'm talking about that it lasts.
SPEAKER_01: Fruit that will last, so that whatever you ask in my name, the Father will give you.
SPEAKER_01: I don't mind excitement.
SPEAKER_01: I love when things go fast and explode.
SPEAKER_01: I love when God is just redoubling things, when there's movements of the Spirit.
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
SPEAKER_01: But you know what I really long for, you know what I really give myself over for?
SPEAKER_01: Fruit that will last.
SPEAKER_01: All right, this church, our church, First Pres, tomorrow, did you hear?
SPEAKER_01: Is 154 years old.
SPEAKER_01: It's our birthday.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, praise God.
SPEAKER_01: And so you're gonna grab a piece of cake and on your way out, unless it's gone because you came to the 11 o'clock service.
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna grab a piece of cake and celebrate because that's worthy of celebration and thanks.
SPEAKER_01: How are we sustained?
SPEAKER_01: Romans 12 is this shaping passage.
SPEAKER_01: It's a sanctifying passage, it's a passage that kind of grabs us and pulls us up onto the anvil in the workshop and starts chipping away at us.
SPEAKER_01: It's it's reminding us of what it really is to be a believer, to be a follower in Christ.
SPEAKER_01: Because when we go through this world, we start to get confused and we start to get commingled and we start to get conforming to the world around us, and then we lose our way.
SPEAKER_01: And Romans 12 stands up and says, hold on, hang on.
SPEAKER_01: This is what it is to be a child of God.
SPEAKER_01: This is what it is to be a daughter of the king, this is what it is to be a follower of Jesus, this is what it is.
SPEAKER_01: And so we're we're restored.
SPEAKER_01: And towards the end of it, you know, uh, we see that it kind of pivots from individual exercise to more of like a community exercise.
SPEAKER_01: Like, what about Christians altogether?
SPEAKER_01: Romans 12 to me, it reads like a laundry list of things to do.
SPEAKER_01: Like, have you ever gotten a printo from a physical therapist?
SPEAKER_01: Raise your hand if you've ever gotten a printout of all the exercises you're supposed to do.
SPEAKER_01: Raise your good hand, your good hand that the physical therapist fixed.
SPEAKER_01: He says, Do all these things, do like 25 things, you know, do your arm like this.
SPEAKER_01: Like, why do I have to do that?
SPEAKER_01: It's to shape you, to reshape you, to heal you, to make you strong again.
SPEAKER_01: Romans 12 is making us strong again in the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: And then in the end it's saying, What about the community?
SPEAKER_01: What about the group exercises?
SPEAKER_01: What about us together?
SPEAKER_01: How does Christian community handle conflict?
SPEAKER_01: How does a living sacrifice Romans 12 Christian respond when someone does them harm?
SPEAKER_01: How can we be a Christian community that lasts, reflecting the tender mercies of Jesus?
SPEAKER_01: In some ways, church, you know, in many ways, we're just like everybody else.
SPEAKER_01: We're just normal people.
SPEAKER_01: Just because you've walked into this room, that doesn't mean that, you know, everything's perfect.
SPEAKER_01: If you if you've come in thinking that everybody in this room is perfect, you haven't been around long enough.
SPEAKER_01: Because we're just people, right?
SPEAKER_01: And we come into this room carrying in uh all of who we are, all of our our woundedness, our brokenness, our unmet needs, our immature reactivities, our sort of ways that we deal with things that aren't that aren't totally the way to deal with things.
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we bring all those patterns and we bring them right into the house of the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: We're just ordinary people, aren't we?
SPEAKER_01: It's us.
SPEAKER_01: We bring it all right into the house of the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: I remember preaching, I think it was my first sermon when I came here 10 years ago, and and um and I said to the church, I said, now a lot of you are really excited and pleased uh with the decision of the search committee uh to bring me as your lead pastor.
SPEAKER_01: But I know that there's also a lot of you in the room that are very disappointed.
SPEAKER_01: And I said, that's okay.
SPEAKER_01: You know, hang in there, give it some time, and after a while, all of you will have a chance to be very disappointed.
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
SPEAKER_01: And we can be just we can all just be one body together.
SPEAKER_01: Why?
SPEAKER_01: Because I'm people too.
SPEAKER_01: I'm just people too.
SPEAKER_01: And so we're not not not everything's gonna be perfect.
SPEAKER_01: There's gonna be things that are frustrating, that are difficult, that are uh, you know, friction-causing, but we're just people, we're just people.
SPEAKER_01: But you know what else?
SPEAKER_01: We're people who are have been drawn together by the power of the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: We're people who are seeking Jesus.
SPEAKER_01: And so we're just people coming in here with all of our stuff, but God is doing something else.
SPEAKER_01: God is building something else.
SPEAKER_01: God, he is, he has brought the power of his Holy Spirit into this gathering, and he is building something called the church.
SPEAKER_01: He is building something called the body of Christ.
SPEAKER_01: And so we're ordinary people, we're regular people, but we have these extraordinary powers.
SPEAKER_01: We have supernatural capabilities to be different from the world.
SPEAKER_01: Why?
SPEAKER_01: Because the Holy Spirit is infusing this people, infusing you to be a different community than the ways of the world.
SPEAKER_01: And through that difference, the love of God is put on display.
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
SPEAKER_01: We're just ordinary people.
SPEAKER_01: We're like um, we're like Peter Parker, right?
SPEAKER_01: Peter Parker?
SPEAKER_01: Ordinary guy?
SPEAKER_01: What happened to Peter Parker?
SPEAKER_01: Is there any Spider-Man uh fans in the house today?
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_01: What happened to Peter Parker?
SPEAKER_01: Got bit.
SPEAKER_01: All right.
SPEAKER_01: We're just ordinary people.
SPEAKER_01: Bit by the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_01: We're bit by the Holy Spirit, and we have extraordinary powers to display Jesus.
SPEAKER_01: Romans 12 says, so stand up and do it.
SPEAKER_01: Live in the way of Christ.
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna live differently.
SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna be conformed, you're gonna be transformed.
SPEAKER_01: Let's look at this list.
SPEAKER_01: Remember this list I read?
SPEAKER_01: Is there anything on there that sounds easy?
SPEAKER_01: Not to me.
SPEAKER_01: Verse 14.
SPEAKER_01: Bless those who persecute you.
SPEAKER_01: Bless and do not curse.
SPEAKER_01: Easy enough?
SPEAKER_01: Sounds easy, and then it gets pretty rough, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_01: That's right, living it out.
SPEAKER_01: Persecute.
SPEAKER_01: That's a word.
SPEAKER_01: Paul knew what that word meant, okay?
SPEAKER_01: This is Paul, the author of this letter.
SPEAKER_01: Paul knew persecution.
SPEAKER_01: He was often arrested, sometimes beaten, regularly imprisoned, and eventually executed.
SPEAKER_01: He knew what he was, he knows he knew what he was saying when he used the word persecution.
SPEAKER_01: And what does he say?
SPEAKER_01: He says, I want you to hold blessing in your heart for those who wish to persecute you.
SPEAKER_01: You know what to bless is?
SPEAKER_01: That's to go to the Lord and say, Lord, I want you to shower your care, your mercy, your grace on that one.
SPEAKER_01: When all they want to do is wreck your life.
SPEAKER_01: Bless those who persecute you.
SPEAKER_01: Don't curse them.
SPEAKER_01: Most people, you know, most people measure their influence, their capacity, their power in the world by two things.
SPEAKER_01: I measure my influence by how I'm able to do two things.
SPEAKER_01: How I'm able to help my friends and crush my enemies.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_01: Jesus said in Matthew 5, no?
SPEAKER_01: I tell you, love your enemies.
SPEAKER_01: Pray for those who persecute you.
SPEAKER_01: Love your enemies.
SPEAKER_01: When Jesus was dying on the cross, you remember what he said as his life was ebbing away, as he's giving up his spirit.
SPEAKER_01: He looked down and he said, Father, forgive them.
SPEAKER_01: They know not what they do.
SPEAKER_01: He wasn't just talking about his friends.
SPEAKER_01: Can you bless those?
SPEAKER_01: Can you hold blessing in your heart for those who have nothing but anger and malintentions for you?
SPEAKER_01: See, here's the thing.
SPEAKER_01: Which is the most powerful, which is the most impactful?
SPEAKER_01: That you can stand up and help your friends and hurt your enemies, or that you can hold blessing in your heart for those who wish to crush you and oppose you.
SPEAKER_01: Enemy love.
SPEAKER_01: That's not conforming to the ways of the world.
SPEAKER_01: That's a totally different way of going about life.
SPEAKER_01: The Jesus way is what changes the world.
SPEAKER_01: Verse 15.
SPEAKER_01: Let's hope it gets easier.
SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
SPEAKER_01: What are the odds?
SPEAKER_01: Rejoice with those who rejoice, mourn with those who mourn.
SPEAKER_01: Nobody wants to go into grief.
SPEAKER_01: Nobody wants to go near sadness.
SPEAKER_01: Nobody wants to go near pain.
SPEAKER_01: None of us want to do that.
SPEAKER_01: That's not what our flesh wants to do.
SPEAKER_01: None of us want to go toward where there's grief or sadness or pain or hurt and sort of step into that awkwardly and sit in that painful space.
SPEAKER_01: It's hard.
SPEAKER_01: It's hard to go towards someone who's in their pain and their grief because you know what happens?
SPEAKER_01: A lot of times they don't really understand their own reactions.
SPEAKER_01: They might jump at you, they might scratch at you, they might do things that don't make sense when you're trying to help them.
SPEAKER_01: Nobody wants to go towards pain.
SPEAKER_01: Romans 12 says, You want to be different?
SPEAKER_01: You want to be a living sacrifice?
SPEAKER_01: Move towards the pain.
SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
SPEAKER_01: It's hard to hurt with others.
SPEAKER_01: But it's a privileged place, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01: I learned ministry from a guy named Jonathan Miller, my pastor.
SPEAKER_01: He ordained me in 1999, July 11th, and I was 26 years old.
SPEAKER_01: And um, and what the thing about Jonathan was that he was always moving toward the pain.
SPEAKER_01: He was the pastor, he's the kind of pastor that uh he would just grab his Bible, he'd hear that someone was in the hospital, someone was hurting, and he's like our caring ministries team, he's like our deacons, our caring pastors, just like, whoop, I gotta go.
SPEAKER_01: He would grab the Bible, head on out, we're going.
SPEAKER_01: And then he would grab me, drag me along.
SPEAKER_01: And here I am, you know, 26, like, I don't know what I'm doing.
SPEAKER_01: And and like walking into these spaces.
SPEAKER_01: And and and when Jonathan, when Pastor Jonathan would walk in there, you know what the people would say?
SPEAKER_01: They would they would always look at him and they would say, Oh, Jonathan, I'm so sorry that you had to come.
SPEAKER_01: And he would say, hmm.
SPEAKER_01: It's a privilege to be here.
SPEAKER_01: 26 years old, I heard him say that the first time.
SPEAKER_01: You know, like all my plans just got messed up.
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know how I'm gonna finish my day.
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how long we're gonna be here.
SPEAKER_01: That's this is really awkward to be here.
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
SPEAKER_01: It's really there's a lot of pain in the room, and I love pain.
SPEAKER_01: Did you say privilege?
SPEAKER_01: And and over time, you know, I realized it's a really special place to be when the Lord puts you in that place where you can bear under the pain of a friend.
SPEAKER_01: Isn't it?
SPEAKER_01: But the first part of that, so how about move towards someone that's hurting?
SPEAKER_01: How about mourn with those who mourn?
SPEAKER_01: But the first part of that verse was different.
SPEAKER_01: What did it say?
SPEAKER_01: It said, rejoice with those who are rejoicing.
SPEAKER_01: Can you add celebration to someone who's really in a celebratory place?
SPEAKER_01: Can you just go and say, I think that's awesome for you, and just add celebration.
SPEAKER_01: Rejoice with those who rejoice, mourn with those who mourn.
SPEAKER_01: It's Cicero, Cicero, who said, A true friend doubles your joy and halves your grief.
SPEAKER_01: Isn't that true?
SPEAKER_01: It's a privileged place.
SPEAKER_01: Move towards.
SPEAKER_01: Verse uh 16.
SPEAKER_01: Live in harmony with one another.
SPEAKER_01: Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.
SPEAKER_01: Do not be conceited.
SPEAKER_01: Now, here's the thing.
SPEAKER_01: Zero of us wake up in the morning and say, today's a good day to be conceited.
SPEAKER_01: Like that's a day, I'm gonna be conceited today.
SPEAKER_01: Zero of us say that in the morning, but somehow we pull it off.
SPEAKER_01: Don't we?
SPEAKER_01: And so we're reminded.
SPEAKER_01: So we're reminded.
SPEAKER_01: Just don't be proud.
SPEAKER_01: Pride and conceit, they just rip up Christian community.
SPEAKER_01: They just destroy authentic community.
SPEAKER_01: Don't be so proud.
SPEAKER_01: Romans 12 says, you know, when you walk into a room, don't be so worried about who you're associating with.
SPEAKER_01: There are so many parties where people are jockeying around.
SPEAKER_01: They want to be seen with someone, they want to know that someone has seen them.
SPEAKER_01: You know, when you're in high school and you're, you know, you're in the cafeteria or anything, I don't even.
SPEAKER_01: Do you guys have cafeterias?
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what's going on in high school these days.
SPEAKER_01: I haven't been over there for a while.
SPEAKER_01: But you're, you know, you've got people around you like, I don't want to associate with so-and-so, right?
SPEAKER_01: I don't want people to think that I'm a so-and-so.
SPEAKER_01: What does Romans 12 say?
SPEAKER_01: You want to stand out?
SPEAKER_01: You want to be a living sacrifice?
SPEAKER_01: You walk into that room and you see every single person as loved by God and the image of God, worthy, worthy of attention and time.
SPEAKER_01: Don't be so worried about it.
SPEAKER_01: Don't be proud, don't be conceited.
SPEAKER_01: If you want to, if you want to cultivate authentic community, major in humility.
SPEAKER_01: Put others above yourself.
SPEAKER_01: Is it getting easy yet?
SPEAKER_01: All right, all right, let's keep going.
SPEAKER_01: Verse 17.
SPEAKER_01: This'll be easy.
SPEAKER_01: This will be a good one.
SPEAKER_01: Do not repay anyone evil for evil.
SPEAKER_01: Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_01: No evil for evil.
SPEAKER_01: What's your first impulse when someone hits you?
SPEAKER_01: Hit them back harder.
SPEAKER_01: Push me, punch you, right?
SPEAKER_01: Stab me, shoot you.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: That's the impulse.
SPEAKER_01: That's the impulse of the flesh.
SPEAKER_01: Romans 12 says, you know what though?
SPEAKER_01: You're you're a son of God.
SPEAKER_01: You're a child of the living God.
SPEAKER_01: You've got the DNA of Christ living within you.
SPEAKER_01: You're a different woman.
SPEAKER_01: You've got to respond differently.
SPEAKER_01: You can't just respond according to the impulse of your flesh.
SPEAKER_01: You're going to have to step back and do something different.
SPEAKER_01: There's a Jesus way.
SPEAKER_01: There must be another way.
SPEAKER_01: Because evil for evil just doubles the evil.
SPEAKER_01: If it's possible, verse 18.
SPEAKER_01: As far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
SPEAKER_01: Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath.
SPEAKER_01: For it is written, it is mine to avenge, I will repay, says the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: We want to take vengeance on ourselves, don't we?
SPEAKER_01: How many movies and shows are all about like, oh yeah, you're gonna get what's coming to you.
SPEAKER_01: You know, all then I'm gonna take vengeance into my own hands.
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna, I wanna take vengeance.
SPEAKER_01: I want to I wanna get revenge.
SPEAKER_01: I've been wrong.
SPEAKER_01: I want to get revenge.
SPEAKER_01: You know what?
SPEAKER_01: If it were up to us to make sure that everybody gets what they deserve, if it were up to us to make sure that vengeance is paid, where vengeance is due, this world would be an absolute disaster.
SPEAKER_01: And raise your hand if you think it pretty much is.
SPEAKER_01: Because that's kind of what we're trying.
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of what we're doing.
SPEAKER_01: There's a God in heaven who has promised to bring justice and right in a kingdom where all wrongs have been put right.
SPEAKER_01: There's a God in heaven who exacts vengeance.
SPEAKER_01: A theologian named Miroslav Wolf spent most of his career at Yale.
SPEAKER_01: And he grew up as a kid and he survived the Balkan Wars.
SPEAKER_01: And um and he said, You know what?
SPEAKER_01: People don't like this word, there's a God of vengeance in heaven.
SPEAKER_01: People don't like that.
SPEAKER_01: They say, I don't want to talk about a God who takes vengeance.
SPEAKER_01: I want to talk about a God who's who's who's sweet and kind.
SPEAKER_01: And Miroslav Wolf said, You know what, you guys, that's a fantasy.
SPEAKER_01: That is a foolish dream of comfortable Western intellectuals.
SPEAKER_01: If you had been through war, if you had seen what I've seen, then you would take comfort that there's a God in heaven who brings vengeance and justice.
SPEAKER_01: And then he developed that.
SPEAKER_01: And he said, because you know what?
SPEAKER_01: If it's only up to us and God is never gonna make things right or never gonna exact vengeance, then two things are gonna happen to your soul.
SPEAKER_01: One of two things.
SPEAKER_01: Either you're gonna be so frustrated and eaten up that you don't have the power to take revenge that it's going to collapse your soul in on itself.
SPEAKER_01: You're just gonna be so frustrated and sick inside that you can't make this evil person get what they deserve.
SPEAKER_01: Or, or you're gonna find a way to exact vengeance.
SPEAKER_01: And what he says is, and that's gonna be even worse.
SPEAKER_01: Because you're gonna spend the rest of your life in the regret of having added evil on top of evil.
SPEAKER_01: Leave it to the Lord, trust it to his care.
SPEAKER_01: Let God handle it and thank God that he does.
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
SPEAKER_01: And then this curious verse, verse 20.
SPEAKER_01: This is a curious verse, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01: On the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, feed him, and if he's thirsty, give him something to drink.
SPEAKER_01: In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.
SPEAKER_01: And we're like, yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Now we're talking, this is what I was after.
SPEAKER_01: Like, I want some burning coals on that dude.
SPEAKER_01: I want to I wanna that's what were we talking about before?
SPEAKER_01: This is exactly where we need to be, right?
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SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, is there a way to dump burning coals on my enemy's head?
SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
SPEAKER_01: What does this mean?
SPEAKER_01: What is this doing?
SPEAKER_01: Doesn't this undo everything we've been talking about?
SPEAKER_01: It's actually it comes from the Proverbs, and even if you study in the Proverbs, it's a little hard to take apart to understand.
SPEAKER_01: Uh, it takes a little explanation.
SPEAKER_01: One possibility historians and comment commentators would say is there is an ancient ritual in Egypt where if you'd wronged someone and you went to ask for forgiveness, it's a very serious affair, and you went to their house as a penitent to be, to say, I'm very sorry, and I want to make up for this, you would, there's a ritual where you go to their house with a copper pot of burning coals over your head.
SPEAKER_01: And so one way to understand this, one possible meaning, is that if you're kind to your enemies, you may prompt them to penitence.
SPEAKER_01: You may prompt them to soften their heart and to want to apologize, and you may add to this ritual.
SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
SPEAKER_01: But I tell you what, what we need to take away from this passage confidently and truly is that God is in charge.
SPEAKER_01: And all that animosity, whatever you've got in your heart, whatever that pain is, whatever that frustration is, whatever that thirst for vengeance is, whatever that revenge impulse is, that fleshly impulse that says, you push me, I push you, that says I'm gonna get you back for what you did to me.
SPEAKER_01: You have got to take all of that and you've got to give it over to the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: And when you give that over to the Lord, what this passage is saying is you can trust him.
SPEAKER_01: He's gonna take care of it.
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna be satisfied.
SPEAKER_01: The Lord sets it right.
SPEAKER_01: Leave it to him.
SPEAKER_01: There's nothing in here that's easy.
SPEAKER_01: There's nothing in here that's that's simple.
SPEAKER_01: My flesh says, You do evil to me, I'm gonna do evil to you.
SPEAKER_01: But we know this is true.
SPEAKER_01: Evil cannot overcome evil.
SPEAKER_01: Only good can do that.
SPEAKER_01: Hate cannot overcome hate.
SPEAKER_01: Only love can do that.
SPEAKER_01: Darkness cannot overcome darkness.
SPEAKER_01: Only what?
SPEAKER_01: Only light can do that.
SPEAKER_01: So this final verse, let's say it together.
SPEAKER_01: Verse 21.
SPEAKER_01: Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
SPEAKER_01: What a challenge.
SPEAKER_01: How do we do it?
SPEAKER_01: Before we move on, one note, one note, verse 18.
SPEAKER_01: Might have read over this.
SPEAKER_01: This is an important note, okay?
SPEAKER_01: We trust in God's justice, we trust in forgiveness, we we practice forgiveness, we seek harmony, and watch this note, verse 18.
SPEAKER_01: It says, if it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
SPEAKER_01: Why is that in there?
SPEAKER_01: Why do you think that's in there?
SPEAKER_01: It's so important.
SPEAKER_01: This is why.
SPEAKER_01: Because there's a limit to your responsibility.
SPEAKER_01: If it's possible, as far as it depends on who?
SPEAKER_01: On you.
SPEAKER_01: Does it always depend on you?
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes not.
SPEAKER_01: There's a limit to your responsibility.
SPEAKER_01: One of the great tragedies of the Christian life, the great tragedies of Christian life together, is when someone takes these beautiful distinctives of Christianity, this uh forgiveness and love for enemy, and a bad actor takes a hold of those and uses them in a distortion to hold someone in a pattern of abuse and say to them, No, your faith dictates that you stay right here by me as I keep hurting you.
SPEAKER_01: Your faith dictates that you forgive me even while I do this to you.
SPEAKER_01: Do you hear what I'm saying, church?
SPEAKER_01: No.
SPEAKER_01: Neither on this passage nor any passage of the New Testament do you have a responsibility to continue to participate in an abusive relationship.
SPEAKER_01: You don't.
SPEAKER_01: In fact, the scriptures outline very clearly moments when the most loving thing to do is to turn away, to get out, to get help, to make distance.
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
SPEAKER_01: I'm not talking cancel culture, I'm not talking you I didn't agree with your politics, or I got a little upset, I'm never gonna talk to you again.
SPEAKER_01: No, but when you're in a position of persistent abuse, Jesus isn't saying you need to get hurt.
SPEAKER_01: Jesus says, I took the hurt for you on myself.
SPEAKER_01: But here's the extraordinary thing.
SPEAKER_01: Here's the remarkable thing.
SPEAKER_01: Even in that situation where you've distanced yourself from that harm, here's the extraordinary thing.
SPEAKER_01: You can still forgive.
SPEAKER_01: You can forgive that person.
SPEAKER_01: You say, how can I do that?
SPEAKER_01: They're not asking for forgiveness.
SPEAKER_01: They're not changing their behavior.
SPEAKER_01: Hey, some of you may be thinking about someone already right now who's long gone, out of your life.
SPEAKER_01: Say, how can I forgive that person?
SPEAKER_01: They're not asking for forgiveness.
SPEAKER_01: Well, you can.
SPEAKER_01: And you need to, and you must.
SPEAKER_01: And you can forgive them because Christ has forgiven you.
SPEAKER_01: And you need to do it.
SPEAKER_01: Harboring unforgiveness in your heart, it said, is like eating rat poison and expecting it to hurt the other person.
SPEAKER_01: You need to forgive.
SPEAKER_01: And you can because Christ has forgiven you.
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's not the way of my flesh.
SPEAKER_01: That's not the impulse that I have.
SPEAKER_01: That's not being conformed to this world.
SPEAKER_01: That's something else.
SPEAKER_01: I can't do that on my own.
SPEAKER_01: I can only do that with the power of the Holy Spirit within me.
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
SPEAKER_01: And when you do that, when you're bit by the power of the Holy Spirit, and when you're living in the way of Christ, not conformed but transformed, you're going to show, you're going to demonstrate a distance, a difference, a distinction.
SPEAKER_01: And in that distinction, the love and the tender mercies of Jesus are going to be on display in your life and in the lives of all those around you.
SPEAKER_01: And that changes the world.
SPEAKER_01: I'll never forget how the work of the church got opened up in Egypt.
SPEAKER_01: Christians in Egypt were persecuted for generations.
SPEAKER_01: And then something happened.
SPEAKER_01: On August 14th, 2013, something happened.
SPEAKER_01: Here's what happened.
SPEAKER_01: The Muslim Brotherhood got pushed out of power, and they were in the streets protesting, and the Egyptian government came down hard on them and killed many of them.
SPEAKER_01: And here's what happened.
SPEAKER_01: As soon as that happened, across the whole nation of Egypt, a wave of persecution erupted against the Christians.
SPEAKER_01: And they came into the churches and they burned down churches.
SPEAKER_01: Four dozen churches were destroyed in one night.
SPEAKER_01: Over 200 Christian businesses were destroyed, ransacked, trashed in one night.
SPEAKER_01: Christians were dragged out of their homes into the street.
SPEAKER_01: It was one of the most horrible events that you've never heard of.
SPEAKER_01: All in one night.
SPEAKER_01: And the leaders of the Christian church, this is what they did.
SPEAKER_01: The leaders of the Catholic Church, the Coptic Church, and the Evangelical Church, which is our Presbyterian brothers and sisters, those leaders, they got together and they were given time on national television.
SPEAKER_01: And they came out and they stood together on national TV.
SPEAKER_01: And they said, brothers and sisters in Christ, tomorrow morning, when you wake up, we will not take revenge.
SPEAKER_01: We will forgive as we've been forgiven.
SPEAKER_01: The next step for that country was total civil war.
SPEAKER_01: The president of Egypt, he brought those Christian leaders in to his office and he said, Listen, I know you guys have been persecuted.
SPEAKER_01: I know Christianity is a minority.
SPEAKER_01: You just saved our nation from total self-destruction.
SPEAKER_01: What do you need?
SPEAKER_01: And from that day forward, you know what happened?
SPEAKER_01: The churches said, Well, we need freedom to plant churches.
SPEAKER_01: He said, plant churches.
SPEAKER_01: He said, we need freedom to rebuild the churches that got destroyed.
SPEAKER_01: Rebuild the churches that got destroyed.
SPEAKER_01: Go do it.
SPEAKER_01: He said, Well, we need we haven't even been able to get a license to repair our roof.
SPEAKER_01: He said, it's done.
SPEAKER_01: Forget about it.
SPEAKER_01: You're part of us now.
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to back you up.
SPEAKER_01: When there was Christian persecution, the president started to show up.
SPEAKER_01: Not a Christian started to show up.
SPEAKER_01: And these churches, our friends, our brothers and sisters in Egypt, they've been planting churches faster than they can populate them with pastors.
SPEAKER_01: They've been filling up these new places.
SPEAKER_01: The Christian kingdom has been expanding in Egypt.
SPEAKER_01: It's outlandish.
SPEAKER_01: And Christians like you and me, they've had, you know what they've had?
SPEAKER_01: They've had Muslims coming up on the front door and knocking on their door and saying, I've heard you know Jesus.
SPEAKER_01: I want to know him too.
SPEAKER_01: Who is this Jesus?
SPEAKER_01: What is this power?
SPEAKER_01: Because people don't live like this.
SPEAKER_01: People don't forgive like this.
SPEAKER_01: I want to know the Lord too.
SPEAKER_01: And they have never seen, never thought they would see a season of the expansion of the gospel like they're seeing right now in Egypt.
SPEAKER_01: Praise God.
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
SPEAKER_01: Why?
SPEAKER_01: Because they didn't respond according to their flesh.
SPEAKER_01: They went Romans 12, they went transformed, not conformed, they went the way of Jesus, the more powerful, more beautiful way, the way of truth and beauty and goodness, the way that reflects human beings as human beings ought to be, but we can't, right?
SPEAKER_01: How do you do this?
SPEAKER_01: How do you take care of this list, this whole laundry list of things?
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to live a Romans 12 life.
SPEAKER_01: I've got to know, I've got to memorize them all and apply them every everywhere I go.
SPEAKER_01: I can't do it.
SPEAKER_01: How do you do it?
SPEAKER_01: List as long as your arm.
SPEAKER_01: Here's how it's all summed up.
SPEAKER_01: Be like Jesus.
SPEAKER_01: Follow him.
SPEAKER_01: Ask him into every situation.
SPEAKER_01: Jesus is the living sacrifice.
SPEAKER_01: He gave his spirit on the cross so that we can live by his spirit.
SPEAKER_01: Follow him.
SPEAKER_01: I want to pray for you, and we're going to move into a time of prayer where we seek the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: So let me pray for you.
SPEAKER_01: Jesus, thank you for this word.
SPEAKER_01: It does two things to me, Lord.
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, when I read it, it hits us in two ways.
SPEAKER_01: First, it hits us as an impossibility.
SPEAKER_01: How could I possibly live like that?
SPEAKER_01: But then also at the same time, Lord, we can see this is how life ought to be.
SPEAKER_01: This is what humans ought to be to one another.
SPEAKER_01: This is this is what I ought to be.
SPEAKER_01: And without your help, there's no way.
SPEAKER_01: So, Lord, come into our lives, come into the life of this community of faith, come into each of our hearts, and give us that supernatural power to live for you in a broken and fallen world.
SPEAKER_01: In Jesus' name.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: Hearing God's word is just the beginning.
SPEAKER_00: What connected with you?
SPEAKER_00: What challenged you today?
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's surrendering something, stepping into community, or simply trusting Him more deeply.
SPEAKER_00: Whatever it is, don't leave it for later.
SPEAKER_00: Act on it today.
SPEAKER_00: We're praying that this message moves you closer to Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: And we'd love to walk with you in that journey and answer any questions you've got.
SPEAKER_00: Connect with us by visiting firstprints.org.
SPEAKER_00: If today's message encouraged you, take a moment and subscribe so you never miss an episode.
SPEAKER_00: And share it with someone who needs to hear it.
SPEAKER_00: Check in next week and we'll continue to grow in our faith together.
SPEAKER_00: See you next time.