Become Unshaken Podcast
This podcast is for anyone navigating the pressures of life. Together, Michael and Stephanie bring both grit and grace to the table. You’ll hear honest conversations about business, burnout, parenting in a blended family, marriage, leadership under pressure, and what it really looks like to build emotional resilience when the world doesn’t slow down. This isn’t just theory – it’s lived truth. Whether you’re leading a company, raising children, rebuilding after loss, or fighting to stay anchored in your purpose, you’ll find real tools and bold encouragement here.
Become Unshaken Podcast
Episode 20: Perseverance | Part 1 | You Will Lose — And That’s the Point
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
You’re going to lose. You’re going to fail. Fall short. Miss the mark. Get it wrong. And not just once. Over and over again. But what if that’s not the problem? What if the real problem is that we’ve been taught to avoid losing, instead of understanding what it actually gives us? Losing isn’t the end of the story. It’s the beginning of perseverance. Join us as we unpack what it really means to lose… and why it might be the most important part of becoming who you’re meant to be.
Welcome to the Become Unshaken Podcast, where we journey through the hard together. We're so glad you're here.
SPEAKER_01And I am Michael Rodriguez.
SPEAKER_00And today we are doing a two-parter. We are going to start with part one of the Perseverance series. I'm so excited about this because we are diving into concepts in the book that we're really going to bring to life with some real stories and some application. I think if you're if you're wondering about how to apply these values in your life, this is the series for you. We are going to start with something that most people don't want to hear. You're going to lose. We don't want to hear it. We don't even want to think about it. But it's true. Sometimes you're going to face failure in life. You're going to fall. What if the real problem is that we've been taught to avoid losing instead of understanding what it actually gives us? Because in Become Unshaken, one of the core truths behind fall, rise, repeat is this losing isn't the end of the story. It's the beginning of perseverance. Today we're unpacking what it really means to lose and why it might be the most important part of becoming who you're meant to be. You ready?
SPEAKER_01I am absolutely ready.
SPEAKER_00I know you're ready because you wrote this chapter yourself. You wrote all of the concepts we're about to talk about today. And so I thought we'd start at the beginning. Let's start with where you say in the book that losing creates perseverance and builds character. I think your word choice is very interesting there. So I would love for you to just dive into that. What did losing teach you that winning never could?
SPEAKER_01You know, winning is what everyone wants to do. And winning feels amazing. But the reality is, and and we say it to the kids all the time. I say it to kids I teach and coach. You don't learn a whole lot when you win. When you lose, that's where you grow. That's where you really start to learn who you are. And you begin to really learn and recognize the things that you need to do to become stronger. And so, you know, we can sit here and no one likes to lose. We all want success. We're all trying to achieve something. And when we do, it feels amazing and we don't, or when we are held from that, or we need to wait to achieve that thing. We don't like it, right? It's counter to who we are and what we, our hearts, our minds, whatever it is, want. But the reality is that growth comes from loss. And I think that's something that's really hard to accept conceptually. But I think having lost much, as many people do and have, you know, you really recognize that without those hardships, without those losses, you don't really develop in so many ways. And so losing is necessary to grow. And it is in that losing and in that learning that you're then more and more prepared for future difficulties, right? So when our kiddos, or when we as children, you know, lost in a game of kickball, sure, devastated. Well, guess what? Now kickball is the least of our worries. And if we would not have learned how to overcome and accept that loss, but then grow from it, right? And and the more we the more we win, the less we learn perseverance, the less we learn resilience. And what's the result? The result is that when you lose, and you inevitably will, we then can't handle it. And so these losses really need to be used to develop perseverance, which strengthens our character and our capacity to both endure and overcome.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think it's interesting that you bring up different examples of loss, right? So a child might think that, you know, something that they're doing that that moment that day, a game they're playing with their friends or their family is the most important thing they'll ever do, ever face. So a loss there just feels tragic. But but for us as adults, you know, when it doesn't matter as much, okay, we can bear that. But when it's something we've been working towards, something we've been, you know, eyeing for a while, something we've been trying to accomplish and we we fall short, it can be devastating unless you have the right perspective. So how do you, how do you even get to a place where you can see it rationally and that you don't overanalyze or overthink and you you look at it for what it is, which is a lesson to learn from.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think, you know, there are two, there are two choices, right? You're so afraid of losing that you don't even play the game. Right? You just you pack it in. I'm not gonna stick my neck out at work to try and get this new promotion or to get this new role or to take on this opportunity or this project. I'm gonna play it safe. I'm not gonna try because I'm just afraid to lose. The alternative is you learn by taking chances and failing that you know what? One, I can survive, two, I grew from this, three, I learned. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna play again. I'm gonna shoot the shot again. I'm gonna continue to go out there because I am not afraid to lose. And and so first and foremost, I think you've got to learn to become comfortable with losing. I mean, it is it is inevitable. Every basketball team I coached this season, right? I coached five teams, three of them were eligible for playoffs. Only one of them won a championship. The other two teams that were eligible, I told them like I tell every team I coach every single season, there's one champion. You are going to lose this soft season. Work hard, play hard, practice, be better, and I'll see you next year. Because I want them to understand, and listen, there are there are always tears at the end of a season. I need them to know, yeah, this stinks. This stings, it hurts. We want to win. Go work hard, and I'll see you next year. It's not over.
SPEAKER_00That's an interesting way to look at it, too, is the lesson that they can learn, that we can learn, is that we'll we'll be okay. We just have to choose to not dwell in that moment and make it almost defining, right? Is that the defining moment, or is your ability to get up and see the bigger picture the defining moment?
SPEAKER_01Well, and that's where your purpose comes in. Those kiddos' purpose is not to win a 10U or 12U or 15U rec basketball county championship. That's that's not their purpose, right? And and so, you know, for us it's parenting. So if there's something that probably shakes me more than anything, it's man, when one of the kiddos are struggling, when they're not seemingly listening or understanding what we're trying to teach, or when they're gonna make a decision that we totally disagree with and doesn't make any sense as a counter to everything we're trying to teach, right? Oh man, now, now we're concerned, right? But when something horrible at work happens, and listen, again, we I could do a podcast six hours a day about work and the difficulty of work, right? But because it's not my purpose, it's not my end all be all, those things are brutally difficult. But those losses are acceptable. Not that I want them or that they're okay, but they do not destroy my foundation.
SPEAKER_00So do you think this is part of just who you are, part of your DNA? You've always thought this way, or was there a moment where where you actually realize that losing wasn't something to avoid, but something to actually learn from? Was this a teachable moment for you?
SPEAKER_01I think, you know, like I like I just kind of mentioned, you can choose to play and possibly lose, or you can choose to never risk, never try, never play, and try to protect yourself from loss. Now, one, I have found that it doesn't matter what you do, life's gonna find a way to make you a loser. Doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_00You can hide in what a sentiment to lead with.
SPEAKER_01Listen, you can hide anywhere and everywhere. Life will affect you. If you're connected to another human being, something will happen. Someone will say something, someone will forget something that you cannot hide from a loss. You never know. And and we and we, and I I know many people, and we as people try to create these protective bubbles around us, our families, our children. We want to protect, protect, protect. Listen, you can protect your child as much as you can. Hide them from the world. They go to school, and Jimmy on the playground says something mean to our kiddo, and all of a sudden, guess what? Loss, pain. It is inevitable. And so, you know, what I learned, as I'm sure so many, pretty much everybody who's, you know, older than five has learned is you can't protect yourself from a loss. So, how are you going to respond to that loss? And, you know, I I think when I think when I consider my reality of you will lose, we talked about it in our resilient kids. I don't let the kids win at anything. Why? Because I want them to learn that when you lose a chess or basketball, one, it's not the end of the world, two, keep going. Little opportunities like that to teach that you will survive, help them, and and inevitably as adults now. I don't care how hard I have worked or how much I've done to protect myself, the business, my people, anything and everything. Loss happens, unexpected disasters occur, and you will always have a choice.
SPEAKER_00So is this something you feel like you really did kind of lean into as an adult, or is it something that you actually learned on the court as a child? Like, what was that defining moment for you?
SPEAKER_01Well, I say it all the time. Athletics are just about the best learning ground for life. Because you lose, right? I mean, Michael Jordan didn't win every single game and every single championship every single year, and he's the best ever do it, right? And I didn't win everything that I did. I wasn't the superstar at every single sport I played. So much about loss really came from athletics and a tough childhood, right? I mean, you family unit was fractured very young. I saw, you know, my father lost his job, you know, when I was five years old, rightfully so. And, you know, I got to see him restart his entire life at the age of, you know, 41. There was a lot of loss. And so, you know, I think it's a culmination and a combination of life losses that inevitably happen no matter what. And again, what do you take from it? What did I take from it? I will also say in the same breath that my mom and dad were very tough and very resilient and were raised to be so, both on purpose and just as circumstances would be, right? Both were raised with very little money. My father as a child only spoke Spanish. And so he grew up, although he's Puerto Rican, as an immigrant in America, right? And and in Chicago. And that was tough. And there are so many hardships. But boy, I'll tell you what. You know, my mom's dad was a farmer. She's a farm girl. They they fight, they show up every day. You gotta show up every day. And so I think, you know, they definitely instilled those expectations. Uh, I talk about it in the book. I think we're gonna talk about it in one of these two episodes, right? You're not sick unless you're bleeding, puking, or have a fever.
SPEAKER_00I let you say it. I didn't want to say it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, thank you. And so, you know, it just there was an expectation there. And, you know, they knew many losses as well. And and they did not protect me from my own losses. They said, Okay, get up. Yeah, let's go.
SPEAKER_00So a lot of it was instilled in you, you know, values that that you saw, you know, your your parents' role model really. But then you even yourself got to practically apply these on the court, in life, in response to what you saw around you. And see, these were lessons that you learned early. I would say myself too. I feel like I learned a lot of these lessons when you you were just talking about your parents, and then I I reflect on my parents as entrepreneurs, uh, my my mother growing up also on a farm, right? And and the hard work that they had to do, everything they had to endure. It's amazing what you absorb through your childhood and through your young adulthood, and that you you just naturally then give to your own life. And I'll be honest, I don't know that I have a defining moment. I think I just responded. I responded because otherwise, what's the alternative?
SPEAKER_01That's right. And, you know, it's only theory until you yourself have to make that decision, right? And you know, and I think about it, yes, I I I I see that my parents, you know, raised me and and brought me up to really stand up and keep going, you know, and if if the if other people's childhoods or expectations were different, fine, there's nothing we can do about that, right? But it was only theory until we have to make those decisions, right? And and and every day, even now, we are presented with decisions. Are we gonna get up? We're gonna fight, we're gonna stand tall, stay firm best we can, and continue to show up, or are we not? Right. And so, you know, there's also the difference between theory and and we talk about it, resilience is a muscle you build. And we talk about the classic conditioning of the mind and of the body. And so I think, you know, yes, the the childhood expectations helped. But listen, you you go away to college, you leave home. Hey, now I get to make my own choices and how do you respond? Right. And again, it's it's all about conditioning and building that muscle to the point that now you just do it. And now you just get up. And it doesn't mean that we're unshaken all the time, but it does mean that we re-anchor quickly and you just make the same choice in the affirmative of I can do it. I'm gonna choose resilience, I'm gonna choose to just get up, I'm gonna choose to go forward, I'm gonna make that choice, and it gets easier the more you do it. And so, you know, that's also why we say start today. If you've been choosing to not take the shot, to not, you know, go for something, change today. Sure. Make today the day you go, you know what, boss? I'd love to lead. I'd love to lead the meeting today.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I'd love to go and, you know, whatever, decide who we're gonna cater with today. Like, just go ahead and make a decision and stick your neck out there and go for it. And listen, the more comfortable you get in that, the better. And when they say, terrible idea or terrible job, you'll ooh, all right, learn from it and go again.
SPEAKER_00And you don't do it blindly, right? You do it with preparation, you do it with intent, right? You set yourself up for success. But that preparation means that, okay, well, then if you prepared and it wasn't a home run, you'll get some feedback and you're gonna try again, right? So there's not, there's not this kind of end of the line that happens with loss unless you choose for it to be. And I think that's also the message. But but if you take it personally, if you take this loss almost as, and and we talked about it just earlier, this kind of form of identity, yeah, that becomes a downward spiral really, really fast. So why do you think we we do take losses so personally? And how can we separate failure and a loss from our identity?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, well, so why do we take it personally? I mean, you said it. So much of what we anchor to, right? And this is when we talk about the difference between joy and happiness. So, you know, when when our identity comes down to what our boss or our co-workers or our, you know, friends or strangers think of us, when they're disapproving, when they are disappointed, when they are not satisfied, we take it personally. I get it, right? But but I would, I dare say, consider why their words or their thoughts weigh so heavily. Because here's the thing that is a weight that is unnecessary. Now, listen, what your boss and your spouse and your community and all these people, what they think of you, yeah, it matters. You want to be well regarded, you want to be a good person, you want to be seen as such, right? But not everyone's gonna like us, everyone's gonna have bad days. Things come in, it is what it is. Your identity cannot be tied to one success because you will lose, right? So if if being successful at everything and winning everything derails your life and your identity, and listen, I'm not saying we don't take losses hard. But what I am saying is that when it has too much weight and it affects other aspects of our life or the thing that we say is our purpose, therein lies the issue. And so, you know, we need to have an identity and something different. My identity is in being a father, in being a husband, right? And in my faith. That's where I get my identity. So all those other things in my life, they have incredible weight and value. But when sales aren't good at the subway this week, I don't take it as a personal slight.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And and and that is, it's a fine line, but you've got to hold that line between identity and weight. Right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love what you're saying, and you've you've sparked so many thoughts. One is this idea of why do we take things so personally? We put so much stock, we take, we we put so much emphasis on achievements, right? On on the gold stars and the medals and the things, the accolades, the things that we can kind of add up to say we're significant, we're important, we're capable, we're we're all these things. So a loss can feel truly devastating if if what you're looking for is again that measurable, you know, list or or even tangible, you know, achievements and things to to put on your on your mantle. It it can feel like a weight if if that one thing that you were trying to achieve is missing. But I would argue that there's a couple things that I think more so define your identity. One is how you're responding from that failure because people are paying attention, right? So say you don't get that that big win wherever, personally or at work. People are, your family, your friends are are actually very aware of how you're responding. And I think that that will carry more weight. That will, that will stand the test of time more so than whatever the achievement was, because that is identity defining. That is your character, right? And that's what's so interesting about what you say about loss and that it actually builds character because you might not have that skill to respond effectively in the moment. But if you build towards it, that strengthens your character in such a way that people can say, you know what? That's who I'm gonna lean on when I need to be encouraged, when I need to be built back up. And I know that I can rely on that person because that's how they respond to situations like this, which are inevitable. It's it's such a beautiful thing to say, I can point to a moment in my life and how I responded to it, not about what happened, but what happened after.
SPEAKER_01That's right. And again, losses will continue to come. And if you don't handle it so well today, the more you practice, the more opportunity you get, the better it will be in the future. And listen, that's what we're working towards, right? And again, we're we're working towards joy regardless. What we want for everyone we come across, everyone that's listening to this, everyone that reads the book, we want them to have joy regardless. Not happiness. Happiness is circumstantial. Happiness can be stolen, right? Happiness is It's taken when we lose. We will inevitably lose. So we want to help all of us, all of you, to have joy as that anchor, regardless.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I think one of the things that can help us avoid this personal weight that we put on ourselves when it comes to to loss or or even falling short on a goal is think about your intent. Did you intend to lose? Did you intend to show up in a way that that wasn't going to achieve what you were setting out to achieve? Likely not. Now, if you did, take that one and learn from it in a very different way, which means do better, be better. You can do, you can do way more than probably, you know, you attempted in that in that in that particular instance. But but if not, if chances are you you really did set out to do your very best, you had good intentions and they either weren't received well or or you just kind of missed the mark. Okay. I think you can own that to say, I did try and I can learn from this and try again. And I say that to say, I just I received a phone call recently from a friend who was attempting something uh within her role at work and it just didn't go well. It it didn't go well, it didn't land well, it wasn't, it wasn't received well. I think it was a presentation that she'd worked really, really hard on. And she felt terrible about it, right? So, but think about that. That's that's not how you want to feel at work. Certainly, you don't want to feel terrible about something you really did try your best to do and accomplish. And the first thing I did was give her permission to give herself grace. Give herself grace. What was your intent? The intent was good. So, so own this is a very human moment. Learn from it. And now what are you gonna do? So once you can give yourself grace, once you can pause in that moment, take a breath, consider your intent and give yourself grace, then you can open that door towards what comes next, which is rise, right? You fell, now you rise, and you're gonna do it all over again the next time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and listen, I say to the kids all the time, you don't need to be the best, you just need to do your best. When you free yourself from the results, right? The effort is what we are preaching. We want you to try, get up and try again, get up and keep moving forward with the right intentions for the right reasons. And again, yes, we want to win, we want to overcome the difficulty and the hardship. The effort, the grind, the work, the time, the discipline, all of those things are what transform us. And again, when you combine those four values, right, that we talk about all the time work, ethic, discipline, patience, perseverance, that is when you become resilient. It is when things matter less, when it is more easily to or more easy to overcome and re-anchor, right? And choose joy, the effort, the discipline, the ability to continue to try your best. Results then don't matter as much because of the character you're developing and building, and you are becoming more resilient. That's the transformational part. It is the try, the effort, the attempt, right? And so, again, we don't have to be the best, just do your best. And that is a that is the distinction that a lot of people don't make, right? When you're competing, and and the reality is this pretty much everyone's competing. Stay-at-home parents are trying to be the best, right? When you're when you're doing at-home learning, you're trying to be the best, right? When you are in the workplace, most of the time you're like, I want to be the best, right? And so, as I say, there's only one champion. Everyone else loses, how do you respond?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think it just it also hit me that the idea of loss, why was it a loss? Right? What was the goal? So that's an interesting thing to reflect on. So if you're listening to this and you're thinking, I don't know, I just feel this kind of heavy weight and maybe, you know, sense of overwhelm. Well, what what is your goal? What are you trying to achieve? Is it something that really should be as significant as you're making it? Number one. And if it is, okay, then what time of what type of time and attention and resources are you putting towards being successful within it? And does anything there need to need to change? And if if you reflect on the goal and the goal doesn't quite add up or doesn't quite make sense, maybe it's time to redefine your goal, right? Maybe it's time to re-anchor to that purpose that you do have and and set your sights on something that is more important and more achievable for yourself. Change the goal. Maybe it's not the loss at all.
SPEAKER_01The goal and and also perspective, right? I also think this is where perspective comes in. You and I have had many professional wins, many awards. 2019 Best Subway operator. I didn't win it in 2020. Right? So, and I haven't won that award since.
SPEAKER_00And did you seek to get it in 2019? Or did you just seek to get it?
SPEAKER_01I had no idea that I was even, I was so in the business, and I had just gone from one to three that I was so nose to the to the ground, man. I I was hustling, and all of a sudden they're like, hey, you need to come to the award ceremony.
SPEAKER_00The best awards, though, aren't they?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was awesome. But it was awesome.
SPEAKER_00When you don't expect it, when you're just working your butt off and you're just trying to do your best, and people notice you and notice your yeah, your worth, your value, your character, all that you're giving.
SPEAKER_01And I don't have a boss. So for anybody outside to say, hey man, great job. I mean, yeah, that that really meant something.
SPEAKER_00You kind of do have a boss, though, don't you?
SPEAKER_01Is it you?
SPEAKER_00No, it's you. You're your own boss.
SPEAKER_01Oh, sure. Yeah, I'm my own boss.
SPEAKER_00You always say you're the hardest boss to work for.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I'm the worst boss. No one, no, I can't stand my boss. Yeah, sure. I didn't know where we were going there. You're giving me such a smile. It's an uh oh.
SPEAKER_00It's you. Yeah, you hold yourself to the same standard that you hold all of your employees.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and an even a higher standard. Uh, and that's you know, neither here nor there. But you know, again, uh it just comes down to again perspective and the weight, the weight that we give things. And so, you know, correct. I wasn't expecting that award in 2019 because I wanted a 19. I did not say, you know what I better do? I better win the 2020, or I'm gonna be disappointed, right? I it just at that point for me, it was about survival. At that point for me, it was about just running the business the best I could.
SPEAKER_00And doing right by your employees. I know, I know how you think and how you operate. It's it's more about your people and your your customers than it is about an award that you could get from from corporate.
SPEAKER_01That's right. And and so winning that award did not then change my perspective as to what the value of what my value was or what the point of the business was.
SPEAKER_00No, but if you had resignations, if you had um, you know, less customers coming through the door, that you would take, that you would take more seriously.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, absolutely. To me, to me, that's the only the only uh you know KPI. That's the only thing that I'm I'm yeah.
SPEAKER_00So to your point, have have perspective on on what loss actually matters, right? And what loss, quote unquote, is is less important in life and what to pay attention to. That's right. Yeah, that perspective absolutely matters. So, so what does it look like to stay in the game, right? When things aren't going your way? When it's when let's just say the goal is right, we have our sights set on on the right thing, the right objective, and and we do have the best intent. But what does it look like to stay in the game when it just still doesn't pan out?
SPEAKER_01Again, the only way that you truly lose, right? You have losses, and you know, to me it's always you lose a battle, you don't lose the war if you keep showing up. And so again, how do you frame your losses? I'm going for this promotion, I'm going for this opportunity at work, you don't get it. Is the war over for you? It shouldn't be right. So how do we how do we stay in the game? You keep your uniform on, you relace your shoes, and you check back in period. And so, you know, we say it just get up every day. I talked about working 90 hours a week, sleeping on the floor of an attic for two years. I had to simply get up. And listen, some days that's all you got, and that's okay too. I don't want people listening to this and thinking, you know, every day I wake up and throw on my Superman cape and I say, you know, here, watch out, world. Nah, man, some days I'm like, boy, I don't want to do this. And then I swing my feet out of bed and I get up. And again, the physical training, the mental training of just getting up, even when you don't want to become so powerful to a point then where you're still making that conscious decision because there is always going to be that voice that says, stay in bed, quit, give up. This isn't worth it, nothing's worth it. This isn't fair, all those things. You've got to have the muscle of resilience built to the point where you at the very least can get up. Because when you get up, you're still in the game. Yeah. Quitting, quitting on yourself, making the decision to say, I will not try, I will not play, I do not want to, and I will not. You are the only person every time that will get in your way. If you don't do it, nothing else and no one else will stop you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Get up.
SPEAKER_00And again, this is all within our control. And so I want to continue on this path of what's in our control. And there's something you talk about in the book that is something I just have always loved. And I want to bring it up here because I think it's really, really relevant. And it's this idea of don't let fear paralyze you, right? We often fear rejection or we fear maybe that second failure or loss. Like, what if it happens again? So we can stay in that moment. So, to me, staying in the game also means recognizing what could get in your way a second time. So if you have the best of intent, you have a strong goal and objective, you have a great plan. Don't let fear paralyze you from trying and trying again, right? So, do you need your tribe around you? Do you need to call on help and support with the people that are going to motivate you and people that are going to be in your corner and stay in your corner when it gets tough? Do you need to kind of rethink elements of your plan? Don't let the idea of another loss or failure stand in your way and recognize the risk in that.
SPEAKER_01Yep. And again, the more you lose, the more comfortable you get with it. So, you know, to be afraid of failure. Man, you don't hear many people say, you know what I wish I wouldn't have done? Taken a shot. Nobody's sitting there and going, oh, you know what I regret? Trying something. No, they say, Man, I should have done this. I should have tried more. I wish I would have done blank. One, I don't believe in regret, which means, yeah, I'm taking every shot. I want the ball. You cannot be your own worst enemy. Fear is us. And and again, I you know, perspective. I talk about it in the book. You know, rough childhood. My dad was a scary dude. And, you know, in the thick of it, it felt terrible, was terrible, is terrible. Would never wish it on anybody. But I will also say that now as an older man, nothing's gonna be scarier to me than that, than being a child with a dad that's out of control. Boy, I'm not afraid of much anymore. Right? And so to me, it also comes down to what's the worst that has happened? What's the worst that's gonna happen? And are you still here? Use it again as evidence. I mean, we talk about it all the time. Use the evidences of your successes, right? Or the times that you overcame. And you can use the times of your failure to say, and then what happened? Listen, I take enormous swings. I'm hanging under a whole lot of debt as a business owner with 25 restaurants. You know, maybe there's a time that I will bite off more than I can chew, or maybe I already have. Even if I lost everything with the business, that would be awful. I wouldn't die. And I wouldn't lose my family. So, all right, let's see what's up.
SPEAKER_00You do take it to the extreme, yeah, in terms of examples. Yeah, you know, so I love it. It's great. It puts everything into perspective for me.
SPEAKER_01And and listen, and and and perhaps that's part of that's part of I am inherently risk averse. I'm always like, hey guys, be careful. Now I want you to think about this. You can get hurt if you do this and this. So I want you to just take it. I'm very thoughtful.
SPEAKER_00No, it's good. I was just playing chess again with the kids and losing. But yeah, sure, sure. I think I think your example with the company is way better.
SPEAKER_01Funny. Yeah. Either way, right? And and listen, there are varying degrees of of risk and all these things, but but really the point that I was trying to make right there was that I'm risk averse. Yeah. And yet I am in the riskiest industry making enormous decisions with giant ramifications if I fail.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01How's that make you, as my wife, feel side note?
SPEAKER_00I just took a note for our podcast on marriage because I can't wait to talk about how non-risk averse I am and this and how this works. So this is uh this is a fun moment for me. So wonderful. So note taken and uh and we'll we'll come back to you with that with that episode. But so um, oh gosh, we've talked about so much today. But you know, what we really hope, what we really hope is that if you are someone who does overanalyze and and overthink some of the moves you've made, some of the failures you've experienced, and you've beaten yourself up over it, give yourself some grace. Reflect back, not on the failures, but on how you, how you showed up after, right? What choices you made? And the fact that I'm sure most of you just got right back up and faced it again. How'd you do that? Why'd you do that? What did you do differently? So, so let's make this real. Let's let's get into some application just to make sure that you take away some some really good next steps for yourselves. Say you didn't get the promotion, business didn't go as planned, maybe there was a tough season in parenting or marriage or a relationship. And maybe you just set a personal goal for yourself, something that you were really hoping to achieve and you fell short. Reframe, reframe this for yourself. What did it teach you? Where did you grow and what would you do differently? Reflect on some of those things and take these away. I think what's great is that not only can you take these away for yourselves, you can also share this with friends or or loved ones. Because again, this would it would be tragic just to kind of leave this right here just for just for us to kind of experience together. Let's share it with others that can benefit from these messages too. There's so many of us that can. So we want to leave you with this message, this closing sentiment, right? Losing does not mean you're not capable. No, it's far from it. It means you're in the process because perseverance isn't built when everything goes right. It's built when things go wrong and you decide to rise anyway. That's the rhythm of an unshaken life. That's the rhythm of the resilient. Fall, rise, repeat. One of my favorite, one of my favorites. Yeah. It's a sticker at some point. We gotta, we gotta turn this into something.
SPEAKER_01Love it.
SPEAKER_00We are so thankful that you joined us today. We hope that you'll visit us on our website, have a conversation with us. We'd love to hear from you. Also visit us on social. We are posting every day, ready to hear from you. Ideas for future podcasts, questions, or thoughts that you have, start a conversation with us. We'd love to engage with you. Um, and lastly, of course, if you have not yet bought a copy of the Become Unshaken book by Michael, please do go to Amazon or Barnes Noble, get your copy today, buy it for a friend. We'd love to see you experience this message on the pages themselves. Thanks so much for joining us, and we will talk to you soon.
SPEAKER_01Everybody have a great week.
SPEAKER_00We're so glad you joined us today. If you found inspiration through today's episode, share it with a friend and make sure to follow so you don't miss what's ahead. Until next time, choose joy, regardless, in whatever comes your way. See you next week.