Become Unshaken Podcast
This podcast is for anyone navigating the pressures of life. Together, Michael and Stephanie bring both grit and grace to the table. You’ll hear honest conversations about business, burnout, parenting in a blended family, marriage, leadership under pressure, and what it really looks like to build emotional resilience when the world doesn’t slow down. This isn’t just theory – it’s lived truth. Whether you’re leading a company, raising children, rebuilding after loss, or fighting to stay anchored in your purpose, you’ll find real tools and bold encouragement here.
Become Unshaken Podcast
Episode 31: The Loneliness Nobody Expected
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Modern life has never been more connected digitally — yet so many people feel deeply alone. In this episode, Stephanie and Michael explore adult loneliness, friendship, marriage, vulnerability, leadership, and community. Together, they unpack why so many people feel emotionally disconnected today and offer practical ways to build healthier, deeper, more resilient relationships in a distracted world.
Welcome to the Become Unshaken Podcast, where we journey through the hard together. We're so glad you're here. Welcome back to the Become Unshaken Podcast. My name is Stephanie Rodriguez.
SPEAKER_04And I am Michael Rodriguez.
SPEAKER_00And today we're talking about something that I think so many people are experiencing, but very few people are talking honestly about, and that's loneliness. Not just physically being alone, but emotionally feeling unseen, disconnected, maybe even unsupported. And the interesting thing is this can happen even when you're surrounded by people. You can be successful, busy, married, parenting, leading teams, constantly communicating, and still quietly feel like no one really knows how heavy life feels for you sometimes. And what's really striking is that loneliness has actually become such a major issue that the U.S. Surgeon General called it an epidemic. Some studies even compare the health effects of chronic loneliness to smoking 15 cigarettes a day. Whoa. We tend to treat loneliness like it's just an emotional issue, but it's affecting people mentally, emotionally, physically, relationally, and honestly spiritually too. And one of the biggest surprises in the research is that younger generations, Gen Z and millennials, are actually reporting some of the highest levels of loneliness, despite being more digitally connected than any generation before them, which really says something about the difference between being connected online and actually feeling known. Michael's shaking his head right now. Disbelief. Whoa. Michael and I have talked a lot about this lately because adulthood can become incredibly isolating if you're not intentional. Careers get demanding, parenting gets overwhelming, responsibilities pile up, and sometimes the very people who seem strongest on the outside are carrying the heaviest emotional load internally. So today we want to have a real conversation about loneliness, about friendship, marriage, community, and why resilience was never meant to be built alone. Now you were shaking your head. Why were you shaking your head?
SPEAKER_04I mean, it's it's just it's a reality, right? You you talk about how can we be so connected? How can we have 25,000 friends on Facebook and feel lonely?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Man, that's because I think maybe two of my, you know, like six good buddies are even on social media, right? And and I don't have 25,000 friends, but I don't know, I get 700 plus, right? Or whatever.
SPEAKER_00That's a great insight to learn about you on the on the national podcast, global podcast.
SPEAKER_04I I only talk to two people that are connected to me online, right? Like like my tribe, we're not connected digitally yet. So many people are. And and when I think about the way that our kiddos play.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04You know, video games first weren't a thing for us predominantly until we were like, I don't know, late teens. That's really when when video games just got more and more accessible and all those things. And and don't get me wrong, me and my buddies, we we all played video games, but we had to like ride our bikes to one of our houses and then all sit around like a 28-inch TV and play a video game. What did that afford us? Interaction, like sidebars and conversations, jokes, we could be silly in person, we do all these things. Now our kids are sitting in their room with headsets on, trying to play video games. That's what that's what friends do to hang out now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04They can be a mile apart, they can be a thousand miles apart, never see each other in person, and they call it social interaction. They call it being together. I'm sorry, but it's not the same. And so, you know, this accessibility has been promoted as helpful, and it's been, you know, deemed valuable. And what I would say is, for the most part, it's just made us lazier in making the effort to be there with and for one another. Now, now listen, we m my family is in Chicago and and really all over the country, and so you know, it's great to be able to FaceTime my nephews. And, you know, we as a family have really made it a habit since forever that we would communicate over the phone. I mean, we I I talked to my mom three days a week. I talked to my brother at least once a week. We're always on the phone, always connecting in that manner, and that's fine. We're 12 hours away. We're, you know, flights away from each other.
SPEAKER_00You're also talking, right? So the difference is you're FaceTiming, you're not just scrolling to see what posts they had as of the last month.
SPEAKER_04And and so, you know, in that technology, no FaceTime hasn't been around forever, but a telephone's been around forever. Yeah. And so, you know, we use that, but but yes, there's that doesn't take place of being together.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And so, you know, when we talk about why is loneliness increasing, listen, it it can't be a surprise to anybody. And listen, I know we all love our tech. Everyone loves their tech. It's a part of life, and, you know, this again is not the podcast to talk about, you know, its merits or or anything else. The reality is we aren't as connected. And we also believe that it makes us more connected. And I think that it actually leaves us wondering why do I have so many connections? Why can I look at on Instagram 792 people's lives and be so involved in what they're doing and feel lonely? It's because we're not actually involved. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And last episode we talked about hustle culture. And now I'll I'll bring up comparison culture, right? This idea that for some people, when they do that, it forces them actually further into this kind of place of loneliness because now they're comparing. Like, I don't have these pictures from vacation to share. I don't have these pictures from sports events or achievements or awards to share. So I'll just continue to stay quiet. And so, so then that comparison sets in, and then you kind of feel a little unsure, a little, you know, lack of self-esteem kind of sets in. There's there's a lot there to unpack. But but to your point, it all kind of goes back to this idea that we know so much about people's lives, but we don't necessarily know them personally. And that personal connection, that lack thereof, can lead to that feeling of loneliness.
SPEAKER_04100%. Listen, there's more value to having five people that you meet with every month and get together with and break bread with than there is having 5,000 connections on social media who you never talk to, don't even have their phone number, haven't seen in 17 years. None of that matters. Yeah. None of that matters. And, you know, what you could live in Des Moines, Iowa, and all you're doing is looking at everyone's life around you. And what happens? Everyone in your neighborhood has pretty much the same life, same demographics, same economic, socioeconomic, you know, background and lifestyle. But no. Now everyone in Des Moines, Iowa, or in, you know, Chapel Hill, North Carolina, can see what, you know, NBA players in New York City's lives are like, and wondering, why don't I have a Bugatti and a mansion and I'm not in, you know, wherever famous people go to vacation and think, listen, man, people have been doing that all their lives. You just didn't know about it. That's why we promote Grimes for the glory.
SPEAKER_00That's right, that's right.
SPEAKER_04But when you didn't see it, then you're just like, yeah, man, everyone's out here playing at the pool or shooting buckets at the court. Like, that's just what life is. No, now it's, well, why am I not living this 1%, the life of the 1%? Why, why am I now failing? How come my friends and I aren't going on these trips? It all it's doing is adding unrealistic expectations and demands. It it actually removes what we're so big on, right? Which is gratitude.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04We're not grateful that we are living in a house with running water, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're looking at what we don't have.
SPEAKER_04We're looking at the fact that we don't have, we're not on some private jet.
SPEAKER_00So that's the social aspect of it. But I would say let's just take social media even out of it.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_00We just also finished an episode about busyness of life and and and hustle culture and burnout. And and I think it's related here because what's interesting is when you do jam-pack your day and you have a full schedule and you are just exhausted at the end of your day, there's not that much time left for connection, right? So, I mean, obviously prioritize your connection with your family, but are you then also gonna add in an event to go to go and mingle with people that are, you know, that you're trying to build relationships with? Maybe some do, but many don't. And so, you know, these connections and these opportunities to to have social gatherings tend to then be work events or commitments that you have to go to for, you know, children's activities and things like that. Yeah. And then everything is on the surface, right? You're just having surface level connections and you're not really, really getting to know the hearts of the people that you're with. And that's what then forms the trust and the bond and the relationship that you can lean on. So, you know, for me, I have I have probably one really strong friendship, even from my childhood, that I would say is my kind of ride or die rely on every day. I mean, probably talk to this person every single day, you know, with exception, of course, in how busy life gets, but but that's how much time my life affords me to build those connections. Now, fortunately, migrate relationships that I do have are strong enough to where I don't feel lonely. But I get it. I get the idea that you can feel incredibly lonely in this busy social, social media driven life.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely. And, you know, if you talk about, you know, you've got a good friend who you talk to all the time, I will say, you know, men in general don't. And y you know, it's it's probably a tale as old as time. And I I do think that between the busyness of life, right, and you know, the the expectations I think that that men have always kind of had on them, which is you're the provider, you're the strong one, you know, this whole strong, silent type, the the one that just does what needs to be done and and you're the rock and you're the foundation of the family and all these things. And I think I think over decades of of that stereotype, I think what has really come of it is loneliness for men, right? In that, you know, we don't share our feelings easily. We don't have a lot of experience doing it. I I was just watching a clip from Diary of a CEO, and they had Trevor Noah on there. And Trevor Noah asked the the uh the host, he said, When's the last time you heard a guy say to another guy, hey, what you just said there really hurt me?
SPEAKER_02Oh.
SPEAKER_04Right? Sure. Men don't speak like that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Right? It's it's why it's why? Because because as a young boy, the point of life is to be the best athlete, the toughest kid, the strongest kid. It was all about accomplishment, it was all about physical superiority. And guess what? It wasn't about let me let me be the kindest person, let me go out of my way to make you feel better, to support you. None of that. It was be tough. Sure. Oh, he skinned his knees, get up and go. No one cares. I'm not here to talk about that. Now listen, I'm a fan of resilience and toughness, but you've got to teach as parents, and something that we we try to talk about as parents and when we talk to others about parenting, you've got to normalize communication about the way in which your child is feeling. And you've got to give them words and you've got to give them space and you have to encourage them to do it. Because the reality is, is that grown men do not share. They do not willingly share, right? And most of the time, when you hear about a guy talking about his feelings, it's because he got caught doing something. Right? I lost my job and I've been hiding it for five months, and you know, now we can't pay the bills and our lifestyles change. So now I'm gonna admit to everybody that I lost my job. But I haven't said anything for five months while we've been trying to survive and barely doing it, right? When they've got a uh substance abuse issue, or they've got a gambling problem, or a million other things that are monumental. They won't even talk about those.
SPEAKER_00See, women do turn to their friends, and they they they turn to their friends often. So I can't imagine what that's like to hold that in. As a man, I can't imagine how much of a burden that would feel, how lonely that would feel.
SPEAKER_04I mean, when you consider, I mean, so I I our kids, we got six kiddos, they're in a million events, and they've been in a million events, and you know, between coaching and doing all the things to be an active daddy, right? I see hundreds of dads and men in the same, you know, part of life as me. Hey, how you doing? You know, I'm good, man.
SPEAKER_03See the game last night? Yeah, man. Crazy weather. Yeah, no doubt. How's work?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's good, real busy. How's the family? Good, man. You know how it is. All right, see you later.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04That is the conversation that you will have with every man, whether it's three minutes or 35 minutes, if you're forced to be together for three hours, that's still about all you're gonna get, right?
SPEAKER_00Even at like a happy hour.
SPEAKER_04In general. Absolutely. Well, at a happy hour, then they're just complaining about work the whole time. Right. And or feel they can't wait until the next escape, right? How do you change that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04The only way you change that dynamic is if you yourselves yourself take on the responsibility to change the conversation. When I started my executive leadership coaching course at Harvard, they encouraged us when we would have these initial conversations, when you'd have your normal conversation, hey, how you doing? The challenge was when they give you a service level response, right? Ask a follow-up question that required a deeper answer. And it did two things. One, it let it made me realize how rare it is to do that for us, right? Like, oh, how's work? Yeah, it's good. All right, cool. Yeah, me too. Instead of, you know, how's work? Yeah, it's good. Well, why is it good? Talk to me about, you know, what'd you do today? Talk to me about your week, man. What's going on? What are you working on?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04What are you diving into?
SPEAKER_02We do it with our kids.
SPEAKER_04Right. We do it with the kids, right? Well, we do it with our kids, and I don't know how many people do that in general, but unless you begin to foster that kind of relationship with others, it's not going to be reciprocated, in my experience. In my experience, you want to have a friend, you got to invest in that friendship for quite some time to build that bond to where that it's reciprocal, right? That's just human nature. Yeah. And I think a lot of us are, we we just talked about burnout culture. We're so busy, we don't have time. Why are we lonely? Because we're so incredibly busy. It's insane. So if you are not fortunate enough to love the parents on your kid's travel ball team, you're lonely, man. Yeah. Because all you're doing is sitting outside for seven hours on a weekend in the heat doing nothing. You got no time. You've got to prioritize it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Ned, and to just add on to that, so it's interesting. Now there's an interesting gender dynamic, but then there's also kind of the role that you play in life, especially at work. So if you think about high performers and leaders, you know, in in the workplace, I think they also experience loneliness a little bit differently because when you are in a position to lead and guide and make the tough decisions, that can be a really tough place to be. There's always pressure. You always have to appear strong, right? There's kind of this emotional isolation that does appear in leadership. Responsibility, fatigue can set in, and that can be lonely. So I will say what I have always attempted to do in roles of leadership for me is then I try to find those kind of relationships within my peer set to say, okay, we can have a nice, relatable relationship and conversation here because we can talk about the nuances of our work. But to your point, it takes intent, right? You have to set up that time. I talk to so many leaders that just remain in isolation and don't, because they're so busy with the work, they don't create those relationships with their peer group to then find commonality, to find an opportunity to to kind of relate and spar. And it can be so much, it can be so, I don't know, so much of a relief to just talk to somebody else that's dealing with almost the same situation or at least has in the past, because then all of a sudden you're not alone. And it releases so much pressure. So if you are a leader out there that that doesn't intentionally and mindfully plan for this in your month, take the time, find one or two folks within your peer set, inside or outside of your organization, to say, okay, let's just connect. I need to connect with somebody on my level to relate to them.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's great advice. I mean, no doubt about it. As a as a as a business owner, right? I mean, it's the same thing. It's it's a lonely island to own your own business because the reality is I don't care who you talk to, if they don't own a business, they don't know what you're going through. And it's one of the things that I hear from tons of business owners. Some of my friends are entrepreneurs and business owners themselves. But as I've kind of continued to grow both within this brand and just within my own profession, it has afforded me opportunities to really get connected to groups of business owners, both franchisees within Subway, but also outside of it, to have the open dialogue, right? The the the straightforward, honest conversations. And there is significant value in that for yourself, and you also then provide that kind of value and that support for others. No doubt about it. You know, when you are a leader, whether it's in work or at home, right, you you take on and have the responsibility to really carry the burdens of the organization, your team, your people, your children, your family, your whoever. And I think that we then we then kind of put ourselves in a box on our own, a box that no one else has put us into, to say, well, part of my being strong means I don't admit to needing help, or I don't admit to being tired, or I don't admit to being uncertain. And so I've got to fake it, and I've got to fake it, and I gotta keep faking it, and then I start to feel like a fraud because man, I'm not feeling really strong. I'm actually really tired, and I'm actually really scared, or I'm actually really whatever you're feeling.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But you take on this responsibility, and and we think that strength is, you know, never being shaken, right? No, no, no, no, no. Life is hard, man.
SPEAKER_03Life is hard. Life is scary. We are human. You can be shaken, you can be worried, you can be anxious, you can be tired, you admit it.
SPEAKER_04You admit it to the people that care about you who will pick you up. And a lot of times that's the people that you're caring for, the ones that you think that you need to take care of, they're there to help you too. And so, you know, you've got to be honest about it. You've got to let that out into the world. When you when you shine light on things, I I'm just a firm believer. When you take things out of the dark and you say, I'm feeling like this, man, so much clarity, so much help, so much support. If you don't get those things, you at least get it off your chest. You say it out loud, and it takes power from it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Right? But as the leader, I think we wrongly take on this idea or this characteristic of an expectation of nothing can bother me. I can't let anyone know that anything's bothering me. And if I do, then I'm failing as the protector, provider, spouse, boss, parent, whatever it is.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And and again, I'll just go back. I think this is where we find a lot of men without outlets, without support. That's when you get the phone calls at midnight and they're on the verge of a total meltdown. So many men wait until it's almost too late, until they can no longer fake being okay, and then you discover that for months, years, who knows how long, they've been struggling with whatever it is, blank. And now you've got at times years of healing or you know, retraining, discipline, you know, making up for poor decisions, whatever it is. But we have got to stop waiting until we're about to fall off the cliff to seek support, to seek friendship.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, normalizing it. It just Yeah, it it's it's so eye-opening to hear you reflect on just overall the experience of men and then you know tie that to men in in leadership positions or business owners. It can be incredibly isolating. And it would be amazing to give men permission and normalize this experience that women have rather freely. I would say it's actually a nice benefit to have this kind of, I don't know, permission to call up a girlfriend and and talk to them about their, you know, your day. It's it is a completely normal experience for me to have a conversation at 7:45 a.m. with my very best friend about my disappointing nail color choice. Like it doesn't really matter. It could be the worst thing that's happened, uh a really frustrating situation with uh with a kiddo on a team or at school or or or something going on personally, you know, a family situation, a health situation, or as simple and as mundane, right, as your as your breakfast choice being really disappointing. I mean, it's it really is okay to bring it all to the table. And and it's rather freeing when I when I reflect on that and what it allows me. It is freedom to express, it is freedom to vent, it is freedom to just be whoever I want to be and need to be in that moment with complete permission and acceptance. And and there's nothing, there's really nothing better than that. And the only thing I would say better than that is experiencing that in your own, you know, marital or or relationship life partner uh experience too.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, I I that's incredibly important. But I will say we were looking at stats somewhere, and you know, it's like the majority of men really would only say that their spouse is their the person that they talk to.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And what I will say is that's a whole lot of pressure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04That's a whole lot of pressure to say everything that I have going on in this thing called life, we we both live it side by side. We're living the same life. We both know how totally crazy life is. But here's the thing I'm gonna rely on you and only you, and I need you to always be the one. That listen, that's a lot of pressure.
SPEAKER_02Sure.
SPEAKER_04Right. And and again, I will just say, there are gonna be things that I want to say, and there are gonna be things that I would naturally respond in a certain way. That man, if I could just say it to my bodies, I'm like, yo, listen, I'm gonna tell you. I'm gonna let me tell let me tell you how I felt. Let me tell you how I felt. You tell them they're like, yeah, I get it. I tell you, you might be like, whoa.
SPEAKER_00I can't tell. Was this about me?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. No, not not in general, right? Not specifically. Very funny. But no, not specifically, but but there is something to it. Yeah. There is something, right? I when I say business owners, they they feel and unless you're a business owner, you just don't get it. Listen, I'm not a mom. I'm not gonna get it. My my wife is not a dad or husband. You're just not gonna get it all.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'll be honest. The contracts that I hear, you know, going sideways for you, I w I I would and and the contract immediately. That's not possible stuff.
SPEAKER_02That's right.
SPEAKER_00Well, it seems possible to me because it's ridiculous.
SPEAKER_04That's right. That is right. And so it's it's just and and so it is. It is just different. And so, you know, do we need to be everybody's friend? No, I don't believe in that either, because if you've got if you've got 200 friends, you don't have a friend.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Right? So, so so avoid that as well. But but again, we hold on to our emotions so tight. And we, as men especially, are so afraid of what people are going to say if we admit weakness or fatigue or fear or insecurity. And let me tell you, if you can really get over that fear, you will recognize that it's just not a reality. Now, now listen, your your peers at 25 and maybe even 30, yeah, they there still might be some ignorant bravado in there. It still might be, oh, yeah, you're too whatever. Listen, man, you're 40. We're all hurting, we're all getting old, we're all tired, we're all feeling it, we all need help. Just admit it. And listen, if you can admit that when you're 30 and 25, you're a decade and a half ahead of most men. And that is great. But how do you foster that? Once again, you lead by example. You know, we we started this brand about hope and joy, and we touched on it in an earlier podcast, I believe, unless it was conversations or something else. But, you know, I began to be open and honest about the hardship of life, both my my early childhood and young adulthood and professional difficulties and just life is hard, man. And I and I opened that door and I shined a light on the hardship, right? But but I have hope and I have joy. And what I discovered is the people kind of on the fringe of my life, people who have I've I've known for a year, seven years, twelve years, all on the, you know, just living side by side. All of a sudden there was like an interest. And all of a sudden there was an open door to emotional, honest, open conversations of I remember that. Yeah, where it's like, you know, the there was like like a one-month period where a handful of people were like, hey, I'm going through this right now. Talk to me about hope and joy. I, you know, I just I get it. Or, hey, I experienced kind of the same things when I was a kid growing up. You know, how do you how do you get over this, right? And it just it was one after the other. And really for me, that that was men don't talk. And so when you make the strong decision, right? The confident decision to just say, I'm going to be me. When someone asks how my day was, if it's a bad day, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna give them an honest answer. I'll be honest, man, it wasn't a good day. And and listen, they're gonna go, what? And you're gonna have to just pretend that they responded appropriately, like, oh my gosh, I'm just already here that, you know, talk to me about that.
SPEAKER_00I think I did that three times today.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, sure. And and then you're gonna just, and then you're gonna dive in and you're gonna say, listen, man, I'm gonna be honest. My boss is driving me crazy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I really don't know if this is the job for me. You know, I'm I'm 42 years old. I don't know. Maybe I need a career change, but I'm afraid what that means to my wife and to my kids, and we're trying to save up for listen, we got pressures, we got hardship, we have fear. Everyone has it. When you open up like that, yeah, they're gonna go, hey man, I totally get it. Let me tell you about I was there a year ago. Or hey man, I'm in the exact same spot. And man, yeah, you're right. And all of a sudden now, you know what you do? Then you shoot them a text the next day and you go, hey man, appreciate you talking. And three days later, you call them up and you say, yo, how you feeling? You get that stuff figured out. You may do that with 20 people and four of them on that phone call, you might be like, Yeah, cool. And the the rest you may not do, right? The key is to find those two or three or four people who you can do that for and who will do that for you. That's when we talk about tribe, right? We're not talking about being Mr. or Mrs. Popularity. Right? You're not you're not we're not trying to be Mr. North Carolina, Mrs.
SPEAKER_03North Carolina.
SPEAKER_04You need a few people in your tribe, not your spouse, not just your spouse, who will pour into you and lift you up and who knows that they can rely on you to lift them up as well. Listen, this is a game changer of life.
SPEAKER_00I just want to say, I did not give him a look right there where he just corrected himself, not just your spouse. I did not give him a look. He corrected himself, but I was like, I bet people were gonna think I gave you a look right there.
SPEAKER_04Funny. No, you you didn't. You didn't, but it, you know, and again, I listen, you are my you are my best friend, and and you are the person that I rely on the most on this planet, and I wouldn't have it any other way. But as I I kind of said before, it's a lot of pressure to say, hey.
SPEAKER_00You need brotherhood.
SPEAKER_04Uh yeah, you you need you need you need a tribe.
SPEAKER_00We need sisterhood, we need brotherhood, we need, we need all hood, we need people to connect. And that's the thing is we've unintentionally built lives that are productive but disconnected. And to your point, I I want to stress this idea of intent. You're saying be intentional, open the door, because you just expressed so many different examples and and one really thorough example of what it means to open the door and then see someone respond because people will respond. They just don't often open the door first. So I'm just I'm just gonna say it, be the person to open the door first. So if you're a man listening and this doesn't sound natural to you, hopefully Michael modeled the way. Open the door first with one person that you could see yourself connecting with potentially in your community, in your, in your, in your group of friends, you know, even if they're, you know, a little bit distant and and they're just kind of sitting on the other bleacher, you're usually at games and and you seem to have some things in common. I don't know, maybe it's a sport team, maybe it's something, right? How would you, how would you position it to say, you know, here's the maybe one or or two people you should try first? How would you even propose that to somebody who's considering, should I, could I, who would I even connect with?
SPEAKER_04You know, it it's gonna be different for everybody. You're already at the ball field, you're already at the basketball courts for your kiddos. Listen, strike up a conversation. Uh, I think for the most part, you know, after a couple of minutes, you know, are they willing to have a conversation or are they so closed off? That's fine, no big deal, right? It's we're not trying to force anything here. But when you, you know, do things collectively, right? You you end up in the same place as other people for whatever reason. It's worth putting your phone in your pocket, going over somewhere, man, just put your hand out and say, hey, how you doing? I'm Michael. They'll tell you your name, yeah. Cool, man. What brought you here? You know, like, hey, I love Kevin Hart. Yeah, me too, man. That's why we're at this comedy club, super cool. You know, get chatting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Right. I I will say, you know, I've got I've got my friends, you know, I've got my few buddies who I rely on, who I can call on, who we get together when we can. But I will also say that, you know, just in our neighborhood, we have put together like a men's Bible study. Me and one other guy go to the same church. Everyone else goes to different churches or doesn't attend church, but we all kind of agreed, hey, yeah, man, we we believe in God, we believe in Jesus, we do all that. So we get together once a month for 90 minutes. And listen, that has been a game changer for me in that that 90 minutes of, you know, and then listen, we're we study the Bible and we go over some verses, but really we talk about being men, we talk about being fathers, we talk about being husbands, we talk about life. And what that then opens up are good conversations, random phone calls when one of us needs something, text messages all the time. I mean, we're reaching out to each other proactively. It is incredibly cool to see. And listen, different walks of life, different a million things. But we do genuinely care about the other's well-being while also respecting the fact that we're super busy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04That only comes up because two of us have a conversation and we talk to another neighbor who is cool, we think's cool, and then we're like, yeah, let's hang. And then they're like, oh yeah, well, I'm gonna go ask my neighbor over here. And they're like, yeah, cool. We actually had separate conversations, three of us had separate conversations with a bunch of different people, and then we showed up, and it turns out three of them were kids who I've coached, and you know, we go to the same schools and we didn't even know we lived in the same neighborhood. Yeah, community is closer than you think. Super close. And all of a sudden, you're like, oh my gosh, how many connections, right? And then I invited a buddy to come and hang on a Tuesday night for one of these, and he knows everybody, right? And it's just we need to have the courage to break all of those stereotypes. Again, I'm I'm talking to men here, to be confident in who you are enough and to respect yourself and to really recognize there is a need and there is an absence for men. Sure. And and people in general, listen, uh, men and women both are pretty neck and neck as far as loneliness percentage-wise. The way in which men deal with it is just typically less healthy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I I will say it it does stay, at least for around the communities of people that I'm I'm a part of, the community around like, you know, kiddo events and things like that, like just in general, the groups that I find myself in. I think we oftentimes stay at the surface and it's a function of busyness, I think, more than anything. Not because we're rejecting connection. It's really not that. I think it's just being overwhelmed or just unintentionally disconnected. So I think the best way to kind of round out this conversation is talking to both men and women with the same advice, the same tips. If you're feeling lonely or just disconnected, and again, you're not rejecting connection, you really want to find it. Be the first to reach out. Be willing to be vulnerable to create that connection. And I think Michael just displayed this really beautifully. Join communities that are aligned to your values, right? Not just showing up to events around, you know, kids or or things that you kind of have to go to as a function of what of what you're you're doing in life, but things that actually matter to you, things that you intentionally want to do and where you want to spend your time. And and then do that, do that thing that we often avoid and talk first. Just see if there's something there. If not, you you move on, but but just try. And and you can start small, but stay consistent. Don't give up early just because the first one or two interactions really didn't pan out. I think all of that matters. It sounds, it sounds simple and it sounds like almost too easy to work. But I would ask yourself, if you're feeling a little lonely, when was the last time you tried these things? Right. So be honest with yourself about what you have and haven't tried and what you are and aren't willing to do to change your circumstances. Because if there's anything that we're consistent about, it's that nothing changes if you don't change. Nothing changes if nothing changes. So, so really, we're here saying we understand, we get it, we're busy too, but your tribe matters in this journey. Your tribe matters in your path towards becoming unshaken. So intentionally build that tribe because you need it. You need brotherhood, you need sisterhood, we need our people. It felt like you were gonna add to that.
SPEAKER_03Again, I we think we can do it all.
SPEAKER_04And and I would say the harder your life has been, right, the more of a reality this is. But I I think we think we can do it all until all of a sudden something happens, life hits so hard and we can't, and then we are stuck alone. And I said it all the time, you know, you get phone calls at midnight from men who now have broken. It's gone on too long, you didn't even know they're struggling with anything. And now it's so far broken that now you're like, okay, now what? What's next? Don't isolate yourself to the point that when you finally acknowledge and admit that you need somebody that nobody is there.
SPEAKER_00Take action before it's too late. That's what I mean.
SPEAKER_04Protect yourself, protect your future. Make sure that you've got people there to pick you up when you need to be picked up, and make sure that you are the kind of friend and partner and person who is willing to do the very same for others.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04We are human creatures. We desire human interaction. And when we rely simply on digital connection, you know, social media likes and five sentence or five-word responses, that isn't that isn't filling our soul. That's not filling that human void. You know, we talk about it, COVID isolated us. We have got to get back out into reality. We've got to meet folks, we've got to support, we've got to be honest about how we're feeling and how we're doing. When you do those things, even though it feels scary, you are giving yourself an opportunity to grow your tribe, to grow your support. And when your tribe is bigger and your support is great, you are stronger. You are more easily unshaken.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think you were never meant to carry every burden alone. I think one of the biggest traps in modern life is assuming everyone else is connected while we quietly struggle alone. But the truth is, so many people are carrying loneliness silently. And maybe today's reminder is this: don't wait for connection to magically happen. It won't. Build it intentionally, reach out to the friend you've been meaning to call, put the phone down during dinner, create rhythms with people you love. Be honest about how you're actually doing. Stop replacing meaningful connection with endless scrolling and service-level interaction. Michael spoke to this beautifully. And maybe just as importantly, something that Michael just said is become the kind of person who creates safety and encouragement for others too. Because the answer to loneliness usually isn't more noise. It's not more followers, it's not more distraction, it's intentional presence and deeper connection. And with people who truly know the real you. Thank you for being part of this community with us, truly. The messages, stories, reviews, the support, they mean more than you can ever know. So thank you. Keep them coming. If this episode resonated with you, download it, share it with someone you care about, maybe even someone you haven't talked to in a while. We really appreciate you being here and appreciate you having this conversation with us. We hope it mattered.
SPEAKER_04Everybody have a great week.
SPEAKER_00We're so glad you joined us today. If you found inspiration through today's episode, share it with a friend and make sure to follow so you don't miss what's ahead. Until next time, choose joy, regardless, in whatever comes your way. See you next week.