Money Talks: Financial Independence chats with Tracy Irwin - Episode Twenty Three Evan Hendrix

Real talk about marriage, money, and the courage to start over with American marriage coach Evan Hendrix, speaking live from his brand new home in the Netherlands.

This isn't your typical business conversation. It's an honest and eye opening discussion about why so many men are silently struggling in their marriages, what money really means in a relationship, and what it genuinely takes to rebuild connection from the inside out.

In this episode, you'll discover: 
💚 Why financial independence is about making money work for YOUR values, not someone else's definition 
💚 How one family uprooted their lives, travelled across 9 countries and 25 cities, and ended up calling the Netherlands home 
💚 The DAFT visa and why the Netherlands is quietly becoming a top destination for entrepreneurial families 
💚 Why there is a growing epidemic of lonely men and what is really driving it 
💚 The emotional vocabulary gap that is silently damaging marriages 
💚 How what you witnessed as a seven year old shapes every money decision you make today 
💚 Why money conversations in relationships feel so difficult and how to actually start having them 
💚 Tracy's Schiphol Airport moment and what a Lando Norris Lego helmet revealed about true self-awareness

Perfect for you if: 
• You or your partner struggle to talk openly about feelings or finances 
• You want an honest conversation about what financial independence really looks like 
• You are curious about the realities of life as an entrepreneur abroad 
• You believe marriages can be rebuilt when both people are willing to do the inner work 
• You are ready to get curious about the story behind why you handle money the way you do

Resources: 
• Evan's website: evanhendrix.com 
• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/evan-hendrix-b350a22b2 
• Instagram: @evanhendrixcoaching

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

What does financial independence mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Financial independence has come to simply mean making my money work for the life and the values that we hold. Recognizing that there's not a right answer there, it's figuring out what works for you.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

That whole conversation, and I know they're meant to be funny, but actually it's kind of true.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

One guy talked about how he would never have those conversations with his mates that he grew up with and maintains friendships.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Welcome. I'm Tracy Irwin and I'm passionate about financial independence and wanted to share stories of inspiring entrepreneurs to prove it's possible for everyone to strive towards financial freedom. Today I'm talking to Evan Hendricks. He's a marriage coach working specifically with husbands and helping them learn what they were never taught. Thank you so much for joining me today, Evan.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Thanks for having me, Tracy. It's great to be here.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

You're welcome. So I'm going to ask you the question ask everybody at the start, and it is what does financial independence mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 1:00

That's a great question. In all honesty, it's changed a lot in the last five years. I think five years ago, it would have talked a lot about uh accumulating a lot of wealth and a lot of property and enough resources that I could comfortably retire at the age that I had in mind. And uh and over the last few years, as a result of some big shifts and changes and looking at what we really value, financial independence has come to simply mean making my money work for the life and the values that we hold. Um yeah, I think I would leave it there.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

Nice. So everyone will notice that you have an American accent, but actually, you know, we're not actually speaking from America either, are we? So, like let everyone know like where you're talking to me from.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Yeah, so currently I'm in Leiden, Netherlands, which is on the west coast, about 10 minutes, 15 minutes north of Den Haag, about 25 minutes south of Amsterdam. We've only been here for about three months, so we are definitely newbies uh to this country and and and to this region, but we're having a lot of fun with it so far.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

It's a beautiful country, and it is a very small world because Leiden is where my partner's from, so that's where so I I know how beautiful um Leiden is. So I've spent a lot of time there, so it's yeah. Um, so I want to talk about the story that got you to Leiden, because I we've talked about this, but actually what because you had a year out, but what I was specifically interested in is what led you and your family, because you had a whole year out, you've got two children, like what led you to your discovery of having the year out in Europe?

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Yeah, so it's a great question. We uh so I was in social work and had been so for about four years, and it was great work. I felt deeply connected to it, but I also felt really tired, um, really exhausted. And my wife is a middle school teacher and had been so for about 15 years. And uh, if you've talked with any educator, you'll know that they're all tired. And so she too was feeling uh very much on the edge of burnout. And we had some good friends that had kids and had taken a couple of gap years and traveled and just had the most incredible stories to tell, uh, not just about memories and experiences, but how it changed really the fabric of their family and and the relationships that they had with their kids and things that they discovered about their kids. And so Lindsay turned to me one day and just said, What if we did that? And I am a risk taker, so I immediately said, Yes, let's do it. Uh and she said, Wait a minute, plan this thing. And so we took about a year, we planned, we saved, we budgeted, uh, we built out a little bit of a roadmap, but then left some things open so that we could just have some room to explore as we felt led. Um and then we yeah, we left in September. Uh our kids were nine and six at the time, and we ended up traversing uh nine countries, 25 different cities. Uh, and it was it truly was a life-changing experience.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Do you think it brought the family closer together as well, having that experience between the four of you?

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Yeah, without question. Uh the the uh I mean just the sheer amount of time that you get uh together, uh whether that's travel days and and buses and planes and trains and the ins and outs of all of that, uh, or just hanging out in an apartment in Spain or Montenegro, or or traveling through cities and through all the corridors and being able to not just experience that for yourself as an adult and and with my wife, my best friend, but also being able to watch our kids have those experiences and those discoveries. And the thing, here's the thing that really surprised me that I didn't anticipate. Uh, our kids were friends before we left, like they enjoyed playing together, but they became so close throughout the duration of that trip. Um, partly because they were their only, you know, the built-in friend and playmate, but they also learned a lot about how to work together, uh, how to find other kids on playgrounds that spoke English that might be interested in playing, uh, and they just found really, really beautiful ways to connect with each other throughout that trip.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

I love that, by the way. So I love the fact that when you've got children or grandchildren, you take them to like a park, they will find people to play with. Like they make friends instantly. And as an adult who has also moved to a different country, I found the hardest thing is to make friends as an adult. I can make business acquaintances, that's really simple. But to make proper friends is much difficult as an adult, isn't it, than it is as a child.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

It's so difficult because it's risky, right? There's there's a lot of vulnerability in a business. You can kind of there's some transaction. I help you, you help me, we can talk about work, but you know, building a friendship is is like, do you do you like me? I I kind of like you. Do you want to play?

SPEAKER_02 6:03

That's what I mean. It's like that's what children is like. Do you like me? And then they've got such this ease of being vulnerable that we just it's pushed out of us as we grow up. So, but so obviously you took a gap yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

Um, and but then you haven't gone home. So how does how does that work?

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Yeah, so a couple uh a couple of months into the trip, well, not even a few weeks into the trip, really, there were some things that really shifted back home. Um, and I don't need to get into deep details about it, but they were they were events that were significant enough that it caused us to just pause and and initially the trip was to play and explore and connect and to rest, but then it really became a question of um what do we value and and what does it look like for us to have an opportunity to really think deeply about this next season of life and what do we want to orient uh ourselves around? And so my wife and I sat down and we really clearly articulated our values and listed them out and weighted them and ranked them, and and then we gave ourselves permission just to imagine what it might look like uh to actually live in a different country. And uh we certainly gave ourselves permission to experience that with the places that we were, and and most of the places we traveled, we were there for three or four weeks, and so we really got a feel of the rhythm and the culture and the just the norms of that place, and to see kind of how our bodies responded, how our kids responded. Um and then we also just cast a big net kind of across the globe and did a deep dive, and what surfaced in the midst of that was uh the west coast of the Netherlands, was really the place that uh kind of it felt like all the stars were aligning. And so we pivoted our trip and we went and visited. And uh when we landed, my wife and I both talk about when we when we stepped out onto the street, kind of that first day to just kind of walk the city and explore a little bit, and it felt like we just exhaled and could breathe, and our and our bodies just relaxed, and and we both kind of looked at each other and just said, Yeah, I think this is it. And so from there, yeah, it just became at that point, it became the the logistical piece of like, okay, I think this is where we need to be. So how do we get here?

SPEAKER_02 8:27

Yes, and and just to share, like it's it's quite easy for Americans to actually settle in the you in the Netherlands, isn't it? If you have the DAFT visa. So if you have certain criteria and you are an entrepreneur, it's actually easier for you to settle in the Netherlands than it is for me as an English person. And I live across the pond. Well, I do, you know, I don't mean to fair, but effectively. So it is it is a good move for people, entrepreneurs who actually want to. And I I agree with you about the Netherlands. Like I saw you a couple of weeks ago when I went back to the Netherlands, and after I'd seen you, I drove to the coast, like to the beach that I'd walked on so many times in COVID when I was there with my partner. And I exhaled, I even sent him a message saying, How do you not miss this place? Because it's just it's so relaxed and and and and just it's just it's beautiful. I just think it's a natural, really beautiful country. And obviously the the people are beautiful. I live with one, so you know, it's kind of to say that, but um, yeah, it is such a really great place um to settle, I think. And so, like, because of that DAFT visa, obviously you do have to be an entrepreneur. How did you find that switch into entrepreneurship after being in a in a job for for the most of your life?

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Yeah, it at first it was really exciting, I think, mostly because the the jobs that I have uh done over the course of most of my adult life have been uh a lot of building new things. And I was always attached to a larger organization or corporation, but I was the guy who was tasked with bringing the vision to life, so to speak. And so if there was a new project or a new uh kind of branch of the organization that they wanted to launch or expand, I was the guy they handed it to and and and just helped generate the the energy around it, uh helped build team around it, helped uh create a sense of vision and mission and values and collaboration. And so I was really comfortable with the idea of stepping out and chasing a vision. The piece that I didn't anticipate uh and that I've had to learn along the way is that I really thrive on collaboration. I love uh these kinds of spaces where we can talk and we can dialogue and we can dream, and I can kind of throw some ideas out there, but then you can push back. And that refining process has been the most difficult part of this journey for me currently. Um, thankfully, uh I've I've been able to network and build some relationships that help me do that now uh with other solopreneurs and entrepreneurs. Uh but uh but yeah, it's it's been tricky to navigate for sure.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Yeah, it is. It's a big difference, isn't it? Because like they say, you know, being an entrepreneur is great because you've got nobody telling you what to do. But actually, that's also the worst thing ever is you've got nobody telling you what to do. Like all these decisions that go around, like the thoughts and processes that go around your head. Sometimes you just want to go, oh somebody just tell me which bit's right. Like, which bit do I do now? And it it and and that process, I mean, I'm 25 years in and I I I still love it. But there is times where I've gone, oh, I think I might just get a job, just get a job, it'd be so much easier. But then I'm like, nah, I'm definitely I wake up in the morning and go, that's just not for me. I think I might be unemployable, but um, yeah, I think that's really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

So as a I love what you're talking about there, Tracy, because I think even this whole idea of freedom, right? You talk a lot about um financial freedom, and people talk about you know independence that way. Yeah, and freedom can be I wake up in the morning and I can do whatever I want. Freedom can also be I wake up in the morning and I'm told to do these things, and so I don't really have to think about it. And there's there's freedom in that. And so recognizing that there's not a right answer there, it's figuring out what works for you.

SPEAKER_02 12:39

Are you working harder than ever, but feeling like you're getting nowhere? You're not alone. Most business owners I speak to feel trapped in their own success, working 60 hours plus a week, missing family time, and honestly, they're not even sure why they feel stuck. They just know something needs to change. If this sounds familiar, I've created a quick quiz to help you find out why you feel stuck in your business. It takes only two minutes, and I give you clarity on exactly what's keeping you tracked, and more importantly, how to break free. The link's in the description. So why not take it now? Yeah, it is 100%. And I think we're all very different. And there's some people I've met in life that make absolutely brilliant like employees for different reasons, and then there's other people who, you know, need that flexibility in their life. Um, and it is about choices, I think. Um, and no, when I when I owned the accountancy business, I used to say I had two types of different stars. Like I had superstars, you could tell they're on a trajectory, they wanted to go places, they wanted to grow, and that was great. And they were easier to like navigate because you could see where they wanted to go. But then there were other people who I called rock stars, and they were the people who were like really a part of the business. They were happy exactly where they were, doing exactly the job they were doing. Like you push them. And and I did make the mistake as an entrepreneur, thinking I wanted to help them to grow. They didn't want to grow, they didn't want the job to be something that it's not. And I think that's sometimes what a lot of people don't realise is sometimes people are happy where they're at doing what they do, you know, and you they just need recognition for that. They don't need the recognition as in like going up the the pro the ladder and being promoted. That's actually not what gives them satisfaction. So I think that's a I think that's really good that you've said it is about choice, it's not just about the flexibility and the the freedom is totally different for different people, isn't it? So, but um, so going into coaching then. Um, like I love what you're doing because I think when we talk about marriages and the connection between a husband and wife, sometimes we do struggle with communication on both sides. And I think that there is an epidemic of lonely men in the world, and and that that does worry me. So I think like what you can do for people is really important um because they need to talk and sometimes and and need in a safe space. So, do you want to talk a little bit about actually how you help um in a marriage um to be able to help them to communicate and understand themselves?

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah, uh and what you're naming is crucial, and and there's a ton of techniques out there, and there's frameworks, and there's 12 steps to this and that and whatnot, and all that stuff's helpful. It it genuinely is and can be, depending on how you interact with it. But I've found that the the primary obstacle for most men, for most husbands, is is that we just never got the vocabulary. Okay, and we never got the opportunity to practice with the vocabulary. And what I mean by that is that for a lot of guys, if you talk to them from an early age, they were taught either explicitly or implicitly to disregard what they were feeling. And it was a lot of you just need to push through. That's not like boys don't cry, you gotta man up some of those traditional kind of cliche phrases that we hear. Uh, but then you also see it in in school settings where his historically boys in general, and this is a generalization, but tend to be a little bit more active and more movement and and slower to mature emotionally. And so in the school setting, it it can be a lot of kind of helping boys to try to calm down and try to stay in their seats and try to be a certain way, uh, which is all well intended and and helpful for the institution, so to speak. But the message that so many of these men hear from an early age and then continues on is what you're feeling in your body is really problematic. And so we need you to disconnect from that, and we need you to actually just perform what we require in this space. And you see it in school settings, you see it in sports settings, you see it in at in the home, um, depending on kind of the the parenting style. And then these men grow up and they get into adult relationships, and their partners want to connect with them at an emotional level, or they want to talk with them, and they want to use language beyond good or fine or busy, right? Which are the most common responses that we give if somebody says, Hey, how are you how are you doing? How you feeling? I'm good. Yeah, but not really how how are you doing? Ah, life's just busy right now, but I'm fine. Yeah, and and that's how it goes. And so start talking to these men, they really do want to talk, they really do want to connect, they really do want that intimacy with their wives. The problem is they were never handed the language, right? And and they were disconnected from feeling what's actually happening in their bodies, and so that's the work. I start helping them reconnect to what they're actually feeling in their bodies, what they're experiencing inside, and then we start working on developing the language to be able to say that stuff out loud. Um and and that's really where the work starts, and then we start moving into the relationship with the partner and invite them to start having a dialogue, right, where that man can start practicing how to connect, how to communicate.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

Um interesting. And so do you feel that as men and women we have different like because um sometimes as a woman we get told to not be so emotional, like but we I think maybe you just push back on that and we just are anyway, and it's it's like I've got female friends that we would talk about our emotions to each other, but actually maybe would push back from talking to our partners about it because they just don't know how to respond.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

Yeah. No, I think you're you're hitting the nail on the head, Tracy, because that those similar messages are heard by young girls, right? And even women of that, you're being too dramatic, you're being too emotional, right? Like you're just you're you're too high strung, you're too high maintenance. Like women hear those messages a lot and so experience similar um challenges. I I think the one advantage that women have is that they've figured out, uh at least a lot of them have figured out that they can have those conversations or connections with each other. And so they still get the practice, they still get the opportunity to interact, to say things, to see how it lands, to respond, to feel all that stuff in their bodies. And and they do that in the context of those female relationships or female circles, whereas men uh really, really struggle to cultivate those kinds of relationships.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

Yeah, I see lots of like reels that are meant to be funny, but actually it rings true. Like when like a man goes out for the day to a football match or a cycle, they're going cycling or anything with their friend, and then they'll come home and the wife will say, How was such and such? And they'll go, Fine, like, but what's going on? And like, I don't know, like that whole conversation, and I know they're meant to be funny, but actually, it's kind of true. Like they have base that like they don't have that some must do. There must be like it, it's it's gonna, it will happen, and I think some people do have that, but actually having somebody to talk about how you feel in like I've got a friend and we we are each other's mirror. So if we like and it's it's a really safe space where we can say, Am I in the wrong here? Am I in the right? And if they're like, you know, no, you're being the dick, actually, that's like that people need that kind of relationship. And I know so many people who don't have the privilege of that kind of relationship that they go through like thinking they're always right because their friends are yes people who not quite ready to say, actually, I think you're the one that's been a dick, because I think that's so important. And then for men and for women, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Yeah, I mean, you're talking about the value of an honest relationship where you can show up and you can say what feels real and true to you. You can be who you really feel like you are, and you can trust that the response you get from your friend is going to be honest. And sometimes that might be something you don't want to hear, right? Or feels comfortable. But the value of that honest response means you get reflected back to you who you really are in that moment. And you get a chance to wrestle that out. Whereas so many men uh I was talking just the other night in in a pub with a group of guys, and one guy one guy talked about how he would never have those conversations with his mates uh that he grew up with and and maintained. Friendships with because so often he just wants to default to kind of the nostalgia and the and the the memories and like what felt good and and when I'm with those guys, like I don't want to be a downer and I don't want to burden them. And so we kind of just laugh about the same jokes and sell the same stories and and we get that hit of like it feels good, but we're not actually talking about what's going on in our lives.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

Oh, that's really interesting. I saw um a reel just a couple of days ago, actually, of um it was on TikTok, and it was a guy who was admitting to bulimia, and his first words like really hit home to me because it was like, if any of you guys are watching this, please don't like diss me too much or something along the lines. It was a message to his friends to say, please don't rid me about this too much, and then he admitted about how this bulimia had taken control of his life and he was sat outside of work crying, and I was like, what a brave, brave thing to do, but to have to justify it to his mates beforehand that they should have been the people he was felt brave enough to act. He didn't. He he he had to he went to TikTok to do it. Your business is successful, so why do you feel so miserable? Here's the thing success doesn't always automatically equal freedom. I see profitable business owners every day who can't take a holiday, who can't switch off, and they feel completely overwhelmed by their own achievements. Sound familiar? Well, I've created a simple quiz that pinpoints exactly why you feel stuck in your business. It will give you the clarity you need to move from being trapped to being free. Why don't you take the quiz now? The links in the description below.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

And and and I think that's part of the the one of the things that is beneficial and helpful about social media is that it has created a bit of a safe space for people to show up and and do that kind of work because it is a bit anonymous in a sense. Uh because again, back to that conversation in the pub, the guy literally said, if I say something, if I go to those guys, if I go to my mates and say that my marriage is struggling, they're just gonna shred it. They're gonna they're gonna rid me about it, they're gonna make fun of me, they're gonna they're gonna find a way to laugh about it because that's the easiest response.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

That is a shame. Um and mindset has a lot to do with this, hasn't it? Like literally, it's how self-esteem, like your mindset, how you feel about yourself. Like, how how does that correspond with this on the inability to communicate actually how they're feeling?

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Yeah, mindset's huge, and and I would even take it a step further than that, um, because I think a lot of culture right now is working on mindset, mindfulness, cognitive fitness, etc. etc. A lot of men live in their heads. And what we really want to do is we want to help them reconnect to what they're experiencing in their bodies, and so it's taking them down and in to be able to start paying attention to what's going on there, and then to help them build a sense of trust with themselves again, to build a sense of trust with what they're actually feeling, what they're actually experiencing, what they believe, what they value, so that they can then more confidently say that stuff out loud. This is what I'm feeling because I've I've already felt it with myself, and I've learned how to name it and describe it and experience it, and I'm okay, and so now I can more comfortably talk about it out loud.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Interesting. No, yeah, I see that, and and my my brain's going 20 to the dozen because I'm kind of seeing like real examples um in my head. Has money got something to do with this too? Does does money come into the relationship? And because like sometimes we see a very, very old-fashioned view about the man being the provider. Does does money come into this quite often?

SPEAKER_01 26:04

Oh, I think money is a huge part of the conversation. Um, and both for what it can provide and kind of unlock and access, and also for the pressure to have it, to keep it, to earn it, to grow it. Um it's it's such a complex issue. And and again, similarly, it's one of those things that I think oftentimes we don't learn how to talk about money, how to be really comfortable just talking about what do we want our money to do for us? How much money do we currently have? How do we get more out of it? Uh, we really just know how to show up and work, and then it drops into our bank account, and then we kind of spend based on either what we were taught or what we saw growing up, but there's not a lot of spaces like this to be able to just openly discuss money and our habits and our behaviors and our values attached to it. And the reality is anytime two people come together, regardless of gender, they're bringing two different sets of what is normal and true and right and good. And then there's just this assumption that it's going to be the same and it's not even close.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

Yeah, I think that's this thing, isn't it? When you meet your partner, it's like they've had this upbringing that they've seen as the norm, and you've had this upbringing, and then suddenly these two houses are meant to like mold together to be the that the they're on the same page, and quite often our upbringings are very, very different, like and it's that communication of you know, let's I think it's awareness as well, because quite a lot of people aren't aware that their story they saw, everything they saw as a seven-year-old is actually what's making business decisions for them every single day, or life, even life decisions for them every single day. And I think the awareness of that is the start, isn't it? It's kind of like where they need to be first.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Yeah, I think that's that's where it has to start, is is waking up to it, is is learning to see it, to pay attention, and then to get curious about it.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

That's what I did. So when I sold my accountancy, I had this realization that um, you know, I was meant to know better. As an accountant, why hadn't I looked after my future self better? And I needed to know the answer. I just don't know why I needed to, but I needed to know the answer to that. And that sent me on a whole two-year journey on money mindset. Like I learned, I read books, I went to seminars, I was like, and I realized that the scarcity mindset that I watched as a child made me a spender. I was my my subconscious was rebelling against you know the fact that we we had very little money um when I was a child. And it's funny because I don't regret any of the things like me and my daughter, because I'm a single parent for such a long time. Me and my daughter went to festivals, we went on holiday, we had such a lovely time, but then I just hit 51 and I'm like, yeah, it was lovely, but they could have put a percentage away, Trace. I'm not that used to, I used to be embarrassed about that fact. I'm not embarrassed about it now, it's who I am, and like I've I've made a much better balance in my life since the awareness thing. Um, and it's just that I see I see people around me as couples sometimes not make decisions on money together, and that frightens me because I think you know, money is such a topic that we do really need to be on a certain page at some point.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Yeah, it it really is, and and and everything that you just talked about in that story, I think is why it's so important because money is attached to our our childhood, our upbringing, our values, our core beliefs, about about who we are, about how that money goes out the door, about what we do with it when it comes in. There's so much tied to money, and if we just start paying a little bit more attention to what is wrapped around it for ourselves, and then get curious about what is wrapped around it for our partner, then we can have just a really open and honest dialogue about, oh wow, I I didn't even know that you grew up that way. That's fascinating. And then it and then it then resulted in you being a spender. Whereas for me, I grew up very little money and it it made me very scrappy and very creative, and so I'm a penny pincher, but I find ways I find ways to like stretch and get creative rather than just spend the money when an opportunity comes along that that genuinely deserves to be enjoyed.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

I I use I use money, I used to. I used to use money as a reward, and actually, when I was coming back to Spain from the Netherlands, I was in Skipple Airport and the Lando Norris Lego helmet had just come out. And two, three years ago, I would have searched that airport for a Lego store and literally would have searched every corner because I felt that because I'd done such a good job and I'd been to that, I'd spoken the Netherlands, I'd had done this course, I deserved a reward. But actually, what was really interesting was I did still think that thought, but then because I was more self-aware now, I was like, what do you need a reward for, Tracy? Like, you know, and it was that whole process, I was really proud of myself because I didn't just go and find the Lego store. My brain went through this whole process and went, Do you really need a Norris Helmet Lego right now? The answer would still like to be yes, but it was obviously no, I don't. Um, and I will probably get it at some point, but I'm just not the day it came out. It was and and and it was it was a great realization because I think that awareness makes you stop, doesn't it? And like have a conversation. And I do remember ringing Herad Sayin, like, I'm you know, I'm I'm I'm glad I've not just walked into a Lego store today because I might have been coming home with this huge box.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Can I ask you a question of that? Of course. If you think back to that moment, what did what did that word represent? Progress.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

I think like so that that's the first word that comes to mind when I think about that moment of when I my thoughts went elsewhere rather than let's find a Lego store. It was I've I've kind of it made me realize that all the work I've been doing on myself was working, and I I realized that I don't just go to the my my subconscious has changed. My subconscious is you know is is doing a different job than it used to do. So my subconscious would have my comfort zone was let's mind myself a present. Um whereas now my comfort zone is saying, you know, that you're more self-aware than that, Tracy, you don't need it. So that's kind of where progress.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

Well, and that's what's so beautiful, right? When we when we take just a little bit of time and intentionality to get curious about why we do what we do, there's an opportunity to update that stuff, right? And sort of go, like, yeah, reward used to mean this, and today it looks a little bit different. Yeah, it's evolved.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

Yeah, definitely. And I think when it comes to money, that's really important. Like, I have, I don't know if you've read Good to Great by Jim Collins, and he talks about flywheels. And I have three flywheels in my life. I have a health, wealth, and happiness flywheel. And on the flywheel of my happiness, yeah, it's definitely happiness, then I have this thing of where I'm sat with the conversations with Herad, because I want to ensure that we make decisions together, whatever that might be. Um, and we're making big decisions right now, and we we have to have those conversations. And, you know, the the house conversation came up so many times, and at first we did not agree with what to do with this house when we go to the UK, just didn't. And but we just kept coming back to it until we found something that was a win-win conversation. We didn't get angry, you know, and I think that's important of having those conversations and not one person saying this is what we're doing, isn't it? And it's that's kind of the dynamics that some people tend to have in their relationship when it comes to money.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Well, and I think the other thing I love in that story, Tracy, is that it sounds like you and Gerard have established a norm that is when it comes to big conversations or big decisions, we don't have to arrive at an answer after one conversation. Yeah, maybe this is maybe this is an ongoing conversation, maybe this is gonna take us six months to figure out, and so we we just need to keep talking about it.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Yes, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Probably me more talking than him if I'm totally honest. Can we talk about this again, please? And he's like, Oh, again.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

So bless him. He's learning his conversations, bless his so, but uh yeah, after six years, we kind of we know we know each other quite well now. But uh it obviously it's everything's like there's always room for improvement, isn't there?

SPEAKER_01 35:34

So yeah, and and again, what you're sharing there, like because you continue to have those conversations, because that's the gift of like we want to be able to get to an answer, right? Or or figure out how to make a decision here, but in the process, there's so much to discover about each other, about our about our stories and about our history and about what we value and what we enjoy. And and that's the gold when it comes to the the bigger conversation, at least for me, of saying this is my primary relationship, this is the person that I've attached myself to. So what we do with this house matters, but what I get to learn about you in the process, that matters so much more.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Love it, really do love it. So if there's anyone out there, I mean, I'm guessing when you say marriage, it doesn't have to actually be, they don't have to be actually married that we're talking couples now. So, you know, but so if there's anyone in a partnership um that is really struggling to communicate and then they're struggling to understand what their feelings are, like how do they get in contact with you? How what does how does that work?

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Yeah, so I have my website, evanhendricks.com, is is probably the easiest way to see a little bit more about what I do and what that looks like. Uh, and on that, there's a couple of different ways to get in touch with me. The first conversation is always just hey, let's let's talk about what you're up against right now. Uh, and that's uh I don't ever charge for that, that's just an opportunity for us to understand a little bit more about where you're at and if working together might be a helpful step forward. Uh the other place that I'm really uh prevalent is uh on my LinkedIn page. So that's a that's a place that's easy uh to find me and get a hold of me.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

And people can look at actually ideas and things about what you talk about then as well.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Yeah, yeah. I have a weekly newsletter on there, lots of content. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

Yeah, nice. So thank you so much for joining me today. And like I love the fact that I'm speaking to an American who's in the Netherlands, and I'm just like, it's just um, it's been an absolute pleasure, and I love the work that you're doing. I think it's so important. Um, and yeah, like I hope, like, I hope that you enjoy getting to be settled even more in the Netherlands.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

No, we're having a blast with it, and same to you. That's a big transition back into the UK, but I love the reasons that you're doing it. It feels really, really grounded in what you what you value.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

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