Ep 4 - Borrowed Chords and Carefree Highway

We break down why simple songs feel so good and how one borrowed chord can make them feel even better. Along the way we talk Gordon Lightfoot, play through I–IV–V, and show how V/V, flat VII, and a major III can lift a chorus without losing the map.

• the show premise as a line-wait chat about music and songs
• three-chord basics in A and how major vs minor shapes mood
• the five of five explained with practical guitar examples
• hearing V/V in hymns and classic pop
• circle of fifths as a map for related keys
• Carefree Highway chord moves, flat seven, and relative minor
• soloing choices when harmony shifts under you
• why pros use capos to keep voicings and raise keys
• Gordon Lightfoot lyric notes and small lyric changes on tour

📺 Watch this episode on our YouTube Channel!
This is also where you can watch our covers of the songs we discuss.
👉 youtube.com/@TheAudienceWontLikeIt

Transcript

Cold Open, Banter, And Setup

SPEAKER_04 0:02

Cool.

unknown 0:03

All right.

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Good afternoon, everybody.

SPEAKER_04 0:08

Probably should have water before we hit go. That's okay. Hey, what are you doing? Enjoy, yeah. That's the kind of thing I love.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

At least we're hydrated.

SPEAKER_04 0:17

Yeah, that people care about that. Uh they won't like our mouths dry. Speaking of things you won't like as the audience.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Welcome back to the audience won't like it. Featuring Rob Shoecraft on the mic.

SPEAKER_04 0:32

And real phone. And husbandry. Oh, and husband husbandry as well. And Leslie Shoecraft on Wifery. Wifery. Perfect.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

I know. Here we are.

SPEAKER_04 0:45

Alright. So we uh we you guys don't know, but uh you're going to. We did something a little different today.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

We did. We're gonna see how it goes.

SPEAKER_04 0:54

We recorded the music before the podcast. It's kind of it's a little nerve-wracking. We kind of have a uh I just officially decided that we have a pretty much a one-shot take. Two shots. We get one. We get two.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

We get two, but sometimes we stop halfway through the second one because we're like, this isn't gonna be any better.

SPEAKER_04 1:16

Yeah, so uh if you're listening for perfection, you're not gonna get it yet, but we're practicing.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Well, I will I will say that we should just enjoy the opportunity to make music. And although we want it to sound pleasant and be a high B plus or A minus, the wonderful thing about music when you're not recording it is that once you make a mistake, it's gone. However, since we're recording it, our mistakes will be carved into time forever.

SPEAKER_04 1:44

They will be authentic forever.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

So, you know, we're just two human beings enjoying a little bit of music making together. Two married human beings.

SPEAKER_04 1:54

Married as can be.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

So you might hear some stuff in the recording that you won't like, but you know why? Keep it to yourself.

SPEAKER_04 2:01

No, actually go ahead and share it.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

And share it with No, I don't want to hear it. I don't want to read about it. I don't want to have my feelings.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

How are we gonna do this when we because we haven't posted any videos yet? We're we're we're getting a little batch going, a little cue. Um we gotta figure out how we're gonna like respond to people. I gotta probably turn the comments off. Turn them off? No, no, no, we've got to have them on. We'll let uh we'll let Caroline and Clark handle them for us.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

That doesn't sound like a good idea either.

SPEAKER_04 2:29

I'll make an AI thing that uh talks like Jack Burton.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:33

How's that? Okay, and just replies as Jack Burton to everybody. Jack Burton from Big Trouble Old China, ladies and gentlemen, driver of the Port Top Express. I like to think of him as the third marriage partner of our relationship.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Oh, I didn't know we had a third marriage partner.

SPEAKER_04 2:46

I like to think of him as that.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

I thought it was Daniel Craig.

SPEAKER_04 2:49

That is not acceptable. That's who I want it to be. Like Daniel Craig.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Uh that's part of his charm. How about Hugh Jackman?

SPEAKER_04 3:00

Can he be a third marriage partner? I'm down for that. I mean, Jack Burton would obviously be choice, but uh yeah, Hugh Jackman's cool.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

He tap dances and sings, so I feel like he would fit right in. Yeah, I he probably goes for perfection in his recordings.

SPEAKER_04 3:14

I bet he does. I bet he does. Let's not have him on.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

No. No. What a jerk. It's too uppity. Can he not be married to us anymore? Can we just go back?

SPEAKER_04 3:23

Can we just can we just go back to Jack Burton?

SPEAKER_02 3:26

You know, I it I love Kurt Russell and the little Jack Burtony. Kurt Russell's okay with me.

SPEAKER_04 3:30

What would you what's your best, what's your prime Kurt? Well because you got a full range to choose from. He's been in the game for a while.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

He has. I don't know. I mean he's super cute. He's a super cute Santa.

SPEAKER_04 3:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

The Christmas Chronicles, that really that was a bangin' made-for-tv movie.

SPEAKER_04 3:52

It was. Was it made for TV? Well, I mean, it's made for Netflix.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Yeah, but it wasn't in the theater, that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_04 3:57

True, but a lot of Netflix exclusives are no longer they're not really going to the theater. It's the the the paradigm show.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

Is that not made for TV?

SPEAKER_04 4:07

I think we can define it that way. That's fine.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Because that's where you watch it.

SPEAKER_04 4:10

But made for TV doesn't mean what it used to.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

Apparently not. Not if you got Kurt Russell's.

SPEAKER_04 4:14

Do you have any favorite made for TV I'm putting you on the spot here? Any favorite made for TV movies?

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Can it be TV mini-series? Sure, sure. The Langoliers. Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_04 4:24

Yeah. Yes, with Balkie Botaka Bush.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 4:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:29

I don't remember. I those things were cool. That was a cool movie. That was the best. I think it was cool. I liked it when I was a kid. I haven't seen it since.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Well, you know, anything you gotta watch with commercial breaks tastes that much sweeter when you get back to the action. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 4:42

Those uh kind of, gosh, what what they're like uh they're like those things that they're on what the heck are the names of the chain. Yeah, in Super Mario? What is that called? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

I don't have my phone.

SPEAKER_04 4:55

I do.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 4:57

Okay, everybody.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Um just a second. We're gonna look up what those chain monsters are called. Whoa, are we speaking in an echo?

SPEAKER_04 5:07

Oh. I'm not really gonna look it up. You can look it up if you'd like. Okay. You gotta talk more about the format of bar. About perfect strange.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

No, go on to the format of bar.

SPEAKER_04 5:14

Well, I was gonna talk about uh my made for favorite made for TV movie. I don't actually know. I I'm gonna get I'm gonna say I'm gonna say the temptations. I like that.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

Oh, I've never seen that.

SPEAKER_04 5:26

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:27

This uh is pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Chain chomp.

SPEAKER_04 5:29

Chain chomp. We should have just made that up. It's a chain chomp.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Anyway, the chain chomp's coming, little angular night.

SPEAKER_04 5:36

Chain chomps are coming. Uh Balkie was kind of a jerk in there, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Yeah, he was bad. I think he got eaten by the chain chomps. Spoiler alert.

unknown 5:43

Oh gosh.

Show Premise And Today’s Plan

SPEAKER_02 5:44

We do a lot of 90s spoiler alerts. Anyway, so welcome back to the show where we do a song at the end, even though it's been pre-recorded at the beginning. You'll see it at the end. You already told him.

SPEAKER_04 5:57

No, I still Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

It's not a secret though. Spoiler alert. We already recorded it. And we talk a little bit about the artist, maybe.

SPEAKER_04 6:08

In this case.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Gordon Lightfoot.

SPEAKER_04 6:10

Gordon Lightfoot. Carefree Highway.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Gordon Heavyarm.

SPEAKER_04 6:13

19 something. Crap. Do you know anything about anything?

SPEAKER_02 6:17

No.

unknown 6:18

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

I was gonna mostly talk about the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald and then also the song. Carefree Highway.

SPEAKER_04 6:26

So in this uh in this podcast, what we do is we the premise of it is, you know, we're standing in line for a show, concert, Gordon Lightfoot. Um, and somebody comes up next to you, starts talking about who knows what.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

You never know.

SPEAKER_04 6:43

You'd be in a polite person, you just kind of stick with the conversation. You find the find the parts that are sort of interesting to you and you you get them going.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

You fake smile your way from you.

SPEAKER_04 6:51

Fake smile. Sometimes you real smile, sometimes you meet a real friend.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

Aw. I rarely do anything but fake smiles. Is that true?

SPEAKER_04 7:00

You gotta smile with your eyes. That's the key.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

Did you guys hear me smiling with my eyes?

SPEAKER_04 7:05

Like uh the Corinthian. Is that his name?

SPEAKER_02 7:08

Yeah. His eyes can't be smiled with.

SPEAKER_04 7:10

They can only be Are they just just kind of?

SPEAKER_02 7:14

I guess it can be literally smiled with. They smile. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 7:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

If you have teeth for eyes, you can smile with your eyes.

SPEAKER_04 7:21

Mm-hmm. That's that's one thing I learned from that show.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

Mm-hmm. That was a takeaway.

SPEAKER_04 7:25

Yes. Um So yeah, it's two people talking online about what are we talking about today?

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Today we're gonna talk a little we're gonna talk about five of five, but we have to give a little a little place to get there from. Oh, go ahead. So it's we're gonna talk a little bit about music theory, just a little bit. And then the ways that uh Yeah, it scares me a little bit. It does, it should, because I'll probably get mad at you. In case you don't know, I'm a music therapist, which required a degree in music. And so I'd know I feel like at this point I know just enough to be dangerous, and not enough to for anyone else with a music degree to be listening to this podcast.

SPEAKER_04 8:09

They're all just a turning in.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

I did take my last class twenty years ago. Knives out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:15

I uh do not know any music theory, and that's not entirely true, but yeah. I mean, I guess I uh I know enough to sound like an idiot when I talk. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

Yeah. So so we talk a lot about five of fives in our house, and that is a that's a uh a music theory term.

SPEAKER_04 8:35

Who do you talk a lot about five to five of fives with?

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Uh you.

SPEAKER_04 8:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

You most of all.

SPEAKER_04 8:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

Uh I had a recently had a lovely patient, rest in peace, who knew what I was talking about. He was a musician, but not like a formally educated one. Form formally? I almost said formerly.

SPEAKER_04 8:53

Well, formerly as well, given his late status.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

Uh, but he was not formally trained, so he didn't really read much music. Um, but he knew exactly what the five of five was, and as soon as I pointed out to him, then it was a joke to always look at each other while we were playing and singing five of fives together. I know.

SPEAKER_04 9:08

That's kind of that's kind of nice. Rest in peace.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

It really was.

SPEAKER_04 9:11

Uh is it a capital V and a capital V?

SPEAKER_02 9:15

In this case it is, yes. Yes, so it's Roman numerals. So should I talk about it? Should I talk about what I want to say? All right, so most music, let's just think about a pop song.

SPEAKER_04 9:26

Like Carefree Highway?

SPEAKER_02 9:28

No, we're gonna get to Carefree Highway.

SPEAKER_04 9:30

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Let's just back up. We gotta back way up.

SPEAKER_04 9:33

How far are we going back?

SPEAKER_02 9:34

We're going back to three chord songs.

unknown 9:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

So a real basic pop song, lots of early pop music and lots of early blues have generally the basic three chord structure with a one chord, a four chord, and a five chord.

SPEAKER_04 9:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

So those are Roman numerals. If you ever see them.

SPEAKER_04 9:57

Should have a guitar? Should I hold my guitar right now?

SPEAKER_02 9:59

Nah. Why?

SPEAKER_04 10:00

Well, so I could like play, you tell me what you want to do. Sure, that's a great idea. Yeah. I'll talk while you get it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

I'll talk while you get it. So Roman numerals, Roman numerals can come in capital letters. There's I's and those are ones. And then an IV together is a four, and then a V is a five. Uh, you have, you know. So if you need to check on your Roman numeral, uh get that, get that refreshed in your brain. Uh, and then that way you can instead of always having to know what key you're in, you can just assign the Roman numerals to any key. So Rob's gonna get back in here, he's gonna squeeze back in here. Right in front of that camera if you're watching on YouTube. Uh, and he's gonna play. What's you what's your favorite key to play in in the on the guitar?

SPEAKER_04 10:50

Um probably A. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

Can you play me a one, four, five, and a?

SPEAKER_04 10:57

I don't know why, but um yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Just do it. And then back to one. One, four, five, one.

SPEAKER_04 11:03

Okay, so what's so what what give me the chords. What's a one? Okay, so one is an A, I'm assuming. Uh huh. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

And then do you know what a four is?

SPEAKER_04 11:12

Okay, well, uh D? Nope.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 11:19

Is it? Well, what'd you say? No.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

Because I thought you were gonna ask me about the chords you played, which are not Oh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:27

And then a five would be uh um E.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

And then back to one. So it sounds so nice. It sounds like a real simple yeah. And back to one. Alright. So, in you have a we have a music alphabet. This matters, I swear.

SPEAKER_04 11:47

Okay. No, no, this is good.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

The music alphabet is A B C D E F G.

SPEAKER_04 11:51

Would I have a guitar? Do you ever bring a guitar to a concert?

SPEAKER_02 11:57

I bet somebody's brought a guitar to a concert that was just an audience member.

SPEAKER_04 12:02

Can you imagine being like, and that's the guy who's sitting next to you?

SPEAKER_02 12:04

I think that'll be, I feel like each podcast we've had a little tip for the audience, and my tip would be do not bring a guitar to someone else's concert. That's a good tip. That's a good tip.

SPEAKER_04 12:14

You always look like a freaking D-bag.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

Yeah, it doesn't matter how good you are.

SPEAKER_04 12:18

It doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

No.

SPEAKER_04 12:20

No, so yeah, save it for for afterward.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

Like hang out in the Yeah, be like, hey, I know you just played a three-hour set, but I brought my guitar and we don't know each other. But you want to hear the song I wrote?

SPEAKER_04 12:31

Yeah, also it kind of smells like pee. Just I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

I wore a diaper so I wouldn't have to miss a single second of the chance of you maybe pulling me up on stage because I brought my guitar.

SPEAKER_04 12:41

Have a guitar with them. And help if you also smell like pee.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

I do. I do. Oh, that's me.

SPEAKER_04 12:47

Oh, hang on, hang on.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Stop me.

SPEAKER_04 12:51

All right.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Anyways, A Okay, the alphabet, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and then it starts over. So if you have a piano, those are all your white notes, and then your black notes are sharps and flats.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:03

Uh, the reason that that matters is because whatever key you're in, the name of that key, if you're in the name, if you're in the key of A, A is number one, it's the first scale degree. And then the chord that you build on number one is the one chord.

SPEAKER_03 13:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

So play us our one chord again, little Rob. Beautiful. Alright, then the second scale degree is B.

SPEAKER_04 13:27

Um, okay But we don't need chords on those. Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

We're just talking scale degrees, which is one single note. But the chord that you build on that is the one chord.

SPEAKER_04 13:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

The second scale degree is a B, the third scale degree in A is C sharp. The fourth scale degree is a D. So the chord that you build on the D is the four chord. So let's hear the four chord.

SPEAKER_04 13:54

Oh, wait a minute. Something just clicked.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 13:57

Forget it. Never mind. Oh. No, no, I did, but I I did it's a different thing. Forget it.

unknown 14:03

D.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Alright, yep. And then the fifth chord would be five.

SPEAKER_04 14:07

E.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

Would be E, yeah. And then back two. Yep. That's one. And then you have six.

SPEAKER_04 14:14

Four or five is a that's a pretty kick.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

That's so common. Super common. So so common. Like most songs.

SPEAKER_04 14:19

Is this the Nashville number system? Is this what this is? Is that the same thing?

SPEAKER_02 14:22

I don't know. As far as I know, it's the Roman numeral system. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 14:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

I don't remember ever hearing anyone call it that when I was in college.

SPEAKER_04 14:32

Hmm. I've seen a lot of there's a lot. You know, I get the YouTube videos popping up saying But the reason it's nice to have this weird.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

So now you can go to the key of C.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

So like it's great for transposing. So if you need to play something in a different key, because maybe you're a woman and you want to sing a man's song like me a lot, I can't.

SPEAKER_04 14:51

You want to sing a woman's song.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Right. You want to drop it down because you're like a super deep man. Super deep.

SPEAKER_04 14:58

Like Gordo.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

I don't know who that is.

SPEAKER_04 15:00

Lightfoot. He's got kind of a deep gravity.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

We're calling him Gordo?

SPEAKER_04 15:04

I think that's what he wanted to be called. When we talked to him before we recorded his song. When he when we bring him up on stage. He could bring a guitar.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

At Wimbledon. Wimbledon. Is he gonna ride in on a dorse?

SPEAKER_04 15:18

I think what do you think he should ride in on? First of all, is he gonna be a ship.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

He will be obviously a ship.

SPEAKER_04 15:24

A ship? He can just come in on a ship. Oh, not an animal. Just a ship.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

What animal? I only know two Gordon Lightfoot.

SPEAKER_04 15:31

I think it's a really uh very charming rooster. I could see a big rooster like a root. A rooster wearing like a denim jacket.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Well, what about the one from uh Dee Dee Dee Dee Dee Dee Dee Dah Bee Dum Bada? Is that a rooster? Robin Hood.

SPEAKER_04 15:48

Oh, is that from that?

SPEAKER_02 15:49

He strums that and he's sitting in the letter.

SPEAKER_04 15:51

That's what he's writing on. Yeah. He's writing on that guy.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

That rooster from the Robin Hood Disney movie.

SPEAKER_04 15:55

Yeah. That's that has some That was another movie we was like. He's alive, sort of, right?

SPEAKER_02 16:01

Gordon Lightfoot?

SPEAKER_04 16:03

Is he gonna be or is he have we figured out how we're gonna resurrect all these people for our concert?

SPEAKER_02 16:08

Well, Gordon Lightfoot's still alive.

SPEAKER_04 16:10

No, he's not.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

What?

SPEAKER_04 16:12

No, he's dead. When? Dying two years ago, maybe?

SPEAKER_02 16:15

Of what? A shipwreck?

SPEAKER_04 16:21

He died, uh I don't know. He had some health problems. I mean, he was like 84 or something like that. All right. Natural causes.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Okay. Age.

SPEAKER_04 16:31

Age killed him. Yeah. Here comes age.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Um get out of here, age.

SPEAKER_04 16:37

But uh yeah, he was he kind of had a deep manly voice. Kinda.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

Is it possible for someone to have a light slash deep manly voice?

Major Vs Minor And Basic Progressions

SPEAKER_04 16:49

Yeah, Roy Overson.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 16:53

No?

SPEAKER_02 16:54

I don't know. I'm just I'm just thinking about their voices. If we were a fancier operation, we could play little clips about what we didn't we can't. We literally cannot we don't know how we can't do it.

SPEAKER_04 17:05

Legal issues, I'm sure. Okay, so one, four, five.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

So if you wanted to move your song from the key of A to the key of C, and you know what your Roman numerals are.

SPEAKER_03 17:15

Ooh. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

You know one, four, five. Well, you can now apply the one, four, five to any key. So now C is your one.

unknown 17:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

So you start on C and you count up four. C is one, D is two. Mm-hmm. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 17:29

I'm cheating because of the pattern, so I know the Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Well, I mean I'm cheating because I know I play the guitar. Uh but if you wanted to, so that way if you can use the Roman numeral, so this is what we did a lot in college. Now, one thing you're not allowed to do while we're having Fox mindlessly playing in the background.

unknown 17:48

No.

SPEAKER_04 17:50

I was doing that. I was practicing my uh alpha numeric.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

We would do this thing in music theory called analyze music, and we would only be allowed to use Roman numerals. So it didn't matter what key it was in, we were using Roman numerals to describe. You might have a whole measure of music. This is classical music, but you might have a whole measure of music where say you're it's a primarily a C chord that's like broken up. So you're so a C chord is C E G. I just looked at the microphone like I was glancing down at it to tell it. From you to the microphone.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

Mine was listening. Mine nodded. Okay. Yours. Get off your phone, microphone.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

Oh my god. Micro smartphone.

SPEAKER_04 18:36

Get off your tele micro.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

So a C chord would be C E G, those three notes. And if you look at a whole measure of music, it might be playing a C and a D and an E and a G, and then back to an E and a C. Well, most of those notes are in the C chord, and so that measure of music would primarily be analyzed as a one.

SPEAKER_04 18:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Very much oversimplifying it, but you also will look at what the lowest note is. That'll usually tell you what the chord is, even if you're playing doo-doo's.

SPEAKER_04 19:08

So you're talking about the range of the melody?

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

All the notes in a measure that are being played usually are part of that chord until you move to the next part of the song and then you change chords.

SPEAKER_04 19:19

Yeah, yeah, I know exactly what you mean. That's why arpeggios work so well and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Arpeggios are just chords that are played one note at a time instead of all together.

SPEAKER_04 19:25

Radical.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

So we would have to go through increasingly more and more difficult music. Oh my gosh, we should have had uh Logan on for this.

SPEAKER_04 19:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

We have a nephew with uh two music degrees.

SPEAKER_04 19:37

He has two music oh bachelor's and a bachelor's.

SPEAKER_02 19:41

And a bachelor's. Look at how's that matchors working out for you?

SPEAKER_04 19:45

He's uh his uh harpsichord. Uh yeah, I think his actual degree.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

I think his master's is in historical music. Okay I please don't like caveman. Can we still be your aunt and uncle if we don't know the answer?

SPEAKER_04 19:59

Can we still be your uncle if we don't know your favorite caveman song? Oh, pre that's prehistoric.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

Oh, right. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:06

Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Sorry, sorry as well.

SPEAKER_04 20:10

Um who do we know who specializes in caveman music?

SPEAKER_02 20:14

I think that person that sang the Star Spangled Banner banner recently at a game we were at. I think that person specializes in.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

That's great. I was nervous you were gonna deliver on a dancer there.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

Is that what you wanted me to say?

SPEAKER_04 20:28

You overdelivered. Oh, how if only they knew. If only they knew.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

I hope they never find out.

SPEAKER_04 20:34

Yeah.

unknown 20:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 20:35

That was something.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

That was probably good for them.

SPEAKER_04 20:38

It's tough.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

It was a pretty terrible rendition.

SPEAKER_04 20:40

Of course, somebody might feel that way about our little.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Oh, yeah, I know. That's why I wanted to have a disclaimer at the beginning. We know it's not perfect, okay? Please.

SPEAKER_04 20:48

No, it's alright. It's part of the we we we strive, we're in a freaking closet right now.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

I mean we're in our we're in our clothes closet. I have bungee cords holding my clothes out of the way. Which if you've been with us, this is an improvement.

SPEAKER_04 21:01

Uh you can't see what it's recording on, but there's a I got this stand set up with all the stuff.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

It looks like the housekeeper from the Jetsons to me.

SPEAKER_04 21:09

It does Alice?

SPEAKER_02 21:11

Alice, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:12

Wait. It's pretty much. Is her name Alice too?

unknown 21:16

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 21:17

Wait. Dang it. Is it Alice?

SPEAKER_03 21:20

Look it up!

SPEAKER_02 21:21

Okay. I don't know how to turn your phone on. Rob doesn't have an iTelephone, so it's difficult for me to work.

SPEAKER_04 21:29

Um Okay, keep talking about ones and fours.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

And fives.

SPEAKER_04 21:33

And fives.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

So there's also so ones, fours, and fives are typically a lovely major song. Jetsons. A lovely major sound. And when you get done looking up the name of the Jetsons, how Rosie.

SPEAKER_04 21:45

Rosie. Alice is uh Alice is pretty much. Yeah, freaking Rosie. Jeez.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Okay, so play this one, four, five and major in a major sound. Um just play this a major chord, a major A.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

The whole lovely. Now, all I want to hear now is an A minor. Mm-hmm. So typically we're just for the oversimplification, we're gonna call a major a happy sound.

SPEAKER_04 22:14

Oh, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

And a minor a sad sound.

SPEAKER_04 22:18

So if you're ever shift between a minor and a major minor. The same chord.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

We did that on uh lady fingers. Oh yes.

SPEAKER_04 22:27

Yes, yes, yes, yes. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

That's what makes music more interesting than just a bum bum bum bum. One, four, five, one.

SPEAKER_04 22:34

It makes my brain um It like sigh. It's in a good way.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

It uh what's the word I want to do with these fingers?

SPEAKER_04 22:44

Massage?

SPEAKER_02 22:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:45

Yeah, tingle lily.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Undulate. It makes your gray matter undulate.

SPEAKER_04 22:49

Yeah, it undulates the crap out of my gray matter.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

I'm like, I can feel it.

SPEAKER_04 22:54

My undies.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

Oh, the undulators.

SPEAKER_04 22:56

We'll have an ungie times on it.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Okay. It's happening again. So anyway, if you have a happy sounding chord, it gets a capital letter. A capital one is a major.

SPEAKER_04 23:10

Cool.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

Capital I, sorry, is a zero. But if you make it minor, it's a lowercase remoneral.

SPEAKER_04 23:19

Gotcha, gotcha. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

So that's something that you would want to keep in mind.

SPEAKER_04 23:22

So if I went to a V, in this case, I'd be going from a capital V one or is that right? No. Capital what a capital I to a lowercase I.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

To a lowercase I.

SPEAKER_04 23:32

Oh, I'm learning.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

But you what what you would do in We don't play while we're talking. So pop a lot of pop music is one, four, five, one, like that. But you could go one, four, five, six. So that'd be uh and it's a minor six.

SPEAKER_04 23:47

Oh play. Okay, I know what it is. I know what it is. Uh right? F short minor?

SPEAKER_02 23:58

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's right. So it's a minor six. And that's common to most music. You're gonna that's that would be the next thing that you would almost always hear in a bridge. Often they'll go to the minor six back before they go back to the chorus.

SPEAKER_04 24:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

So that's pretty common. Very, very, very common. It's like one of the first things you learn in like roast any type of songwriting.

SPEAKER_04 24:23

I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

If you're learning it from a formal.

SPEAKER_04 24:26

I didn't know that, but I do usually kind of know where it's gonna go.

The Five Of Five Explained

SPEAKER_02 24:29

All the stuff you already know, you just don't know the names of it.

SPEAKER_04 24:32

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Some of it anyway, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

So, a five of five. Are we ready for that yet?

SPEAKER_04 24:38

I think, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

So it's a V, a capital V, and then a slash. Is that a forward slash? For the internet people with that?

SPEAKER_04 24:47

Yeah, forward slash is the one where the top is leaning forward.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

Okay, yeah, so it's a forward slash.

SPEAKER_04 24:51

We call it in IT we call it backslash a whack.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

Really?

SPEAKER_04 24:55

That's what I call it.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Who else calls it that?

SPEAKER_04 24:57

It's the person who told me that.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

Who told you that?

SPEAKER_04 25:00

I think it might have been James.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

James with the purse?

SPEAKER_04 25:04

You talked about no, no, no, that's Jack.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Oh, sorry, Jack.

SPEAKER_04 25:07

No, Jack with a whack.

unknown 25:09

Jack.

SPEAKER_04 25:10

Never mind.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Which one was James?

SPEAKER_04 25:11

Uh James, I don't want to get into. I can't. We're not giving last names, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:15

Right.

SPEAKER_04 25:16

No. Um. Worked with him worked with him in uh at the bank.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 25:22

He liked trains? No, no, it's a different guy. That's a different guy. That was that was a temporary guy. No, James was a brilliant human.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

Yeah, I think it's coming back to me now. Yeah. Did we go to his house once?

SPEAKER_04 25:37

Is that still Jack? We never went to Jack's house either.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

I think we went to James's house once.

SPEAKER_04 25:41

Jack's for a whack.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

I didn't do anything like that.

SPEAKER_04 25:45

That's a mafia joke, not a So it's a forward slash then.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

So you have a capital V for five slash, which is gonna represent the word of in the phrase five of five.

SPEAKER_04 25:55

Oh. This is like programming.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

And then the second, the second V. So a capital V, a forward slash, and a second V.

SPEAKER_04 26:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

So the five that we have determined in the key of A is what what chord?

SPEAKER_04 26:09

Of A E. E.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

So now for a second, we're gonna briefly leave the key of A behind and we're gonna jump into the key of E.

SPEAKER_05 26:18

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

And then you have to find what is the fifth scale degree of E. Which means you have to go Earth, G sharp A.

SPEAKER_04 26:27

E.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

And then E?

SPEAKER_04 26:31

Yeah, this is E.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

E.

SPEAKER_04 26:33

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

F sharp minor. G sharp minor.

SPEAKER_04 26:37

Um, and then oh.

SPEAKER_02 26:41

A. And then and what is that?

SPEAKER_04 26:45

That is a B.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

That is a B. So it's a B major.

SPEAKER_04 26:48

I don't know why I'm playing it up there. It's good. You know what it is? Because the only time I can do that one, two, three, through it that way. Is if I do this shape, an A shape, which is the cage from the cage system.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Yeah. That'll be have to be a different podcast where you tell me about the cage system.

SPEAKER_04 27:05

Oh, L. I'm gonna need to practice it so that you could tell someone else about it. So I could take so the the reason one of the reasons I like A is because I think I'm one of the few humans on the in the world who does not like playing open like uh like a G, like a G major, like G pentatonic. Right? These open strings, I hate them.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 27:34

I feel like I have way more control. I like to start with A.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

Yeah, I see what you mean. Because it just lets me That's pretty guitar specific.

SPEAKER_04 27:40

It is. It's also like why don't you just learn music? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

So the E, back to that.

SPEAKER_04 27:46

E, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

So if you're in the key of E, which is the fifth degree of A, so we've left A behind.

SPEAKER_04 27:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

We're now in the key of E. We've just determined that the five of E is B. And it is a major chord.

SPEAKER_04 27:58

Got it.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

In this case, it's a major chord. But if you were to go back to the key of A for a second and play a B chord, it would need to be a B minor in order to fit in the key of A. The way it would be spelled.

SPEAKER_04 28:14

That'd be the two.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

So because and it would be the two. So because we've borrowed a B major from the key of E, we're briefly taking a time where we go just a hair into the key of E to play that five of five.

SPEAKER_04 28:28

The hairy E, some people call it.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Yes. I don't know about the hairy E.

SPEAKER_04 28:32

It's a five of five kind of thing. Oh.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

I've never heard that before.

SPEAKER_04 28:35

It's different. There's just different words. Yeah. Like whack and hairy E.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

Hairy E. Yeah. Dorsey.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

The hairy D, have you ever seen?

SPEAKER_02 28:47

So anyway, the B sounds like it wants us to go back to the E.

SPEAKER_04 28:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

So play this.

SPEAKER_04 28:56

Is that why you play a B seven?

SPEAKER_02 28:57

Mm-hmm. So the seven is what makes you want to go back to the high. It pulls you.

SPEAKER_04 29:02

You could hear that.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

So first play A D E seven A.

SPEAKER_04 29:06

A D A D E seven. E seven.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

And A.

SPEAKER_04 29:14

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

A D E seven A. Yes. Now. What you will often hear then, instead of that, you'll hear, you'll travel and get a B. So play. Play A D. Now play A. Then play B. That was a B major.

SPEAKER_05 29:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

E. And now play an E7. Now go back to A. See, we took a brief detour into E there for a second.

SPEAKER_04 29:53

Would you call that tension or it's more of a bright. It's kind of a. It's I always wanted to say bluesy, but we'll What would you say if if you didn't know what blues was?

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Well, I mean, uh those are some pretty subjective words.

SPEAKER_04 30:08

So I I I always cite the uh that stupid friends episode where Phoebe's referring to all the shapes. Like this is like I think I think a G's like a dinosaur or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:21

Like I could I definitely get that. I get where she's coming from. So I like to like refer to like I think it's almost safe to always safe to say I like any song. I'm probably gonna at least like a little bit any song that has a major seven chord in it.

SPEAKER_02 30:38

Okay. Because it sounds so five of five's are super recognizable in hymns.

SPEAKER_04 30:47

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

So do you know Love Lifted Me?

SPEAKER_04 30:50

I know I know the song, I don't know it by heart. I could probably play it with notes.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 30:57

Um just play it. Yeah, you play it.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

We're gonna switch guitars here. Cool. Switch guitars, switch bodies.

SPEAKER_04 31:03

No, we don't play when we're talking, remember that.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

We do if I'm the one in charge. I just did a five of five again. Okay. In the key of C now. This is love lifted me. Tell me when you think you can hear the five of five.

SPEAKER_05 31:32

Cool, go.

Hearing V/V In Hymns And Examples

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Love lifted me. Love lifted me.

SPEAKER_04 31:38

Right there.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

When no, love lifted me. Love lifted me. When nothing else could help, love lifted me.

SPEAKER_04 31:54

It kind of lifts.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

Love yep, it goes back. And it doesn't do it again, I don't think. But so in order to kind of take, yeah, it makes it more interesting. So you're taking a chord that does not belong in the regular scale. If you were to build that chord in the original key, it would not, it would be a minor chord. Gotcha. But because we've made it a major chord, actually, what we've done is raised the third, the interval, the middle interval of that chord, a half a step to make it want to go to the five of the original key. So it should be a D minor, which would be this and it would be D F A. But because we've made it D F sharp A, that F sharp wants us to go to the G. And we play a G seven because that's part of the key of C, and now we're back home.

SPEAKER_04 32:47

So G7 is part of the key of C because it's kind of a G major?

SPEAKER_02 32:53

When you have a seven chord, you're adding a fourth interval on top.

SPEAKER_04 32:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

And in major scales, unless it's specifically.

SPEAKER_04 33:05

So your first one.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

So if you have the key of G, you're trying to get a G seven. If you just have a key of if you just have the G chord, G B D, that's it. But if you want to make it a seven, you have to add what would be the seventh note above G. And in this case, it's either F or F sharp. Unless it specifically says major M A J seven, then it's an F, not an F sharp. An F is part of the key of C. F sharp is not part of the key of C.

SPEAKER_04 33:36

Never.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

That's your G7.

SPEAKER_04 33:39

That was a G7.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

Major 7.

SPEAKER_04 33:42

Oh, G major 7, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

Here's a G7.

SPEAKER_04 33:46

One of my favorite little chord progressions is in uh Bell Bottom Blues.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 33:51

Where he goes from I'm not gonna play this song, but it's basically like it's this. Uh so what would this be?

SPEAKER_02 34:01

Is it the C to the E? It's which part is that?

SPEAKER_04 34:07

Uh I don't wanna fade away. That's not the right key for me, but it's uh Can I play can I play this? Is that that's probably a copyright uh well, whatever. Anyways, I love that flow.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

We're just analyzing music. So that's an A, a major seven, a seven, and that's walking down. So it's A, G sharp, G. And then the next well, is that what you're playing? Yeah. Then the next one is looks like it stays in D, so the A is there. Or the F sharp. Play it. Play A. Play it like you just played it and go to the D.

SPEAKER_04 34:52

I'll play it on an A. I don't know why I chose uh.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

Well, I just I'm looking at the music. So and then D. Yeah. So it walks down. It goes A, G sharp, G, F sharp.

SPEAKER_04 35:10

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

And that's what sounds cool.

SPEAKER_04 35:12

Does strawberry feels do that too?

SPEAKER_02 35:15

Strawberry feels forever. Uh raindrops keep falling on your head, does that? Okay. I can't think of strawberry. I don't know if it's a few.

SPEAKER_04 35:26

That's like a diminished whatever.

SPEAKER_02 35:29

Anywho. So when you start. Sorry, I don't know why I thought playing with the spring. You know what I mean? That doesn't sound as bad as it does in life.

SPEAKER_04 35:37

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

That might, though.

SPEAKER_04 35:40

That might. Okay, so five of five makes songs interesting. It does.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

It's like one of the first simple ways to make songs more interesting.

SPEAKER_04 35:49

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

And essentially you're just borrowing a chord from another a related key.

SPEAKER_04 35:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

Are you familiar with the circle of fifths?

SPEAKER_03 35:59

Oh yeah. Love them.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

So you start on C and the fifth. So don't play anything. C, then the fifth scale degree of that is G.

SPEAKER_05 36:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

And the only difference in the key of C and G is a is one sharp. Then from G to D, that's the next fifth, is two sharps. D has two sharps. D up to A. Now A has three sharps. A to E, E has I has four sharps.

SPEAKER_04 36:25

So this is how you remember how many sharps they have for A?

SPEAKER_02 36:29

Well yes, but it's also it shows you how they're related. So the it so uh so in the key of A, E is a related key because it only has one more sharp than A does. In the key signature. It's only different by one note.

SPEAKER_05 36:45

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

Does that make any sense? I I know it does. It's just A. A. Listen, A, B, C sharp, D, E, F sharp, G sharp, A. That's A.

SPEAKER_04 36:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 36:55

E, F sharp, G sharp, same. A, B, C sharp, same. D sharp, E. D sharp is the only note that they don't share. In A, it's D, and in E it's D sharp. So you're just borrowing, you're just taking a chord from the E because they're related to each other, and the circle of fifths shows you. And you can go backwards and it's flat.

SPEAKER_04 37:17

Okay. I've seen it before, and uh it's like it's one of those things that's like made fleeting sense to me. And I was like, okay, I see why this is why people do this.

SPEAKER_02 37:29

And I mean it's it's a language, and I use it literally every single day.

SPEAKER_04 37:34

No, I know, it's awesome. I'm not, yeah. I'm it freaks me out a little bit. It's just like, gosh, I don't want to sit here and do this. I know, I know.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

I mean, that's a pretty popular it's a pretty popular mentality though among like popular musicians.

SPEAKER_04 37:51

I totally get the value in it. I know I'm being a stubborn idiot. I get it. And there's times where I'm like, okay, I could just practice all the chord progressions for like, you know, like a looper pedal for like different modes and whatnot. And I could get used to switching between modes. And because like if you listen to our one we did Carefree Highway, I know that's not doing different modes, although it is kind of, I would say it borrows like a mixolydian scale when it goes into the.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

Yeah, it has some borrowed chords in it.

Circle Of Fifths And Borrowed Chords

SPEAKER_04 38:18

And I kind of botched that up. Part of the reason is I'm just not a great, I'm a professional guitar player, but the other reason is just like you have to practice those shifts. You gotta really know the fretboard. Yeah. Or you gotta or you gotta just be if sometimes if I can get myself just in the zone where I don't have to think about what I'm playing, I just kind of do it. But I was not there when we did that.

SPEAKER_02 38:39

So well, in one of the things in Carefree Highway, which is why I picked it, um, I'm actually looking at it now and thinking that it doesn't even have a borrowed chord. Oh yes, it does. It does a D. The E. Yeah, the the F sharp major. On head down to my shoes, the chord on shoes is a borrowed, that's a five of five.

SPEAKER_04 38:58

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

Um, so but it also has other, it has another borrowed chord. It has a major three instead of a minor three.

SPEAKER_04 39:06

And is that the D?

SPEAKER_02 39:07

G sharp minor.

SPEAKER_04 39:08

G sharp. Oh, that is a sweet chord. That part of the song is my favorite.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

It should be a G sharp minor. I'm sorry, it's a G sharp major in the key, in the song.

SPEAKER_04 39:16

It sounds almost minor. I know that doesn't make any sense. Well in my brain.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

It goes. Do you think anyone's still listening?

SPEAKER_04 39:26

No. That doesn't matter. Teach me something, mommy.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

So it goes to it it it okay, so it goes from the G sharp major.

SPEAKER_04 39:37

I'm just gonna play the quote. Give me the chord progression real quick.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

E B sharp major.

SPEAKER_04 39:48

C sharp minor. And then that switched the G.

SPEAKER_02 40:02

So that note, let me tell you, that chord takes you back to a chord that is part of the scale. Because it takes you to a si a minor six. The C sharp minor. So G sharp goes to C sharp minor.

SPEAKER_04 40:21

Goes to C sharp minor.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

And C sharp minor is in E.

SPEAKER_04 40:25

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

But they're a fifth apart, so that's why it sounds like it sounds like, you know, you're now you're going to the minor part, but and the minor, it's the relative minor of the key of E, which is a few years.

SPEAKER_04 40:36

It sounds like that because it's cueing it.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:38

Do you think it'd sound like that if it went to another No, I don't think it sounded would sound as good. Because so so the reason, I'm sure the reason is that I know the song. You know, but like it's just weird how how much me personally, if you play or anybody who plays by ear, I it's I suppose anyone at all who plays music, but especially if you play on ear as a crutch, like it's it's crazy how much you rely on predicting the future.

SPEAKER_02 41:12

Well, and that's what's I guess playing changes, like that's why you brain that's why we can use music therapy. That's why we can use music as therapy, because your brain likes order and predictability, and so if you're in a therapeutic environment like we know we're using it therapeutically, your brain is not like questioning and worrying and f in in fear because it's music is very predictable. But sometimes it's boring. And so then you have these things like a borrowed cord that makes it more interesting, but even that borrowed cord goes where you want it to.

SPEAKER_04 41:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

So it's it's pretty interesting.

SPEAKER_04 41:49

For the fur, you know, but of course, now if we get if we get into like a cultural conversation, it goes where you want it to if you grew up listening to Right.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

Of course, our Western music, right. Or even you know, European, like c classical music.

SPEAKER_03 42:06

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

That all is that's where this all comes from. I mean, classical, a lot of popular classical music still has very boring chord progressions, just like all of our boring pop music does.

SPEAKER_04 42:16

Is there any classical music that has like a blue shuffle?

SPEAKER_02 42:20

I don't know about that, but you start moving from like traditional classical music into like romantic era, and then that's when you see more colorful uses of chords and stuff.

SPEAKER_04 42:30

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

That would probably be giving birth to more modern day blues.

SPEAKER_04 42:35

Was WC Romantic era?

SPEAKER_02 42:40

What came after Romantic?

SPEAKER_04 42:42

Modern?

SPEAKER_02 42:44

WC was I think, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 42:46

He was so much more recent in history than so I think romantic was was that like um Schubert Romantic?

SPEAKER_02 42:54

Mendelssohn? I'm pretty sure Mendelssohn was romantic. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 42:59

Jimmy?

SPEAKER_02 43:00

Fire me. I just think I'll fly away.

SPEAKER_04 43:03

You like know a lot about Roman numerals, a lot about numbers, and uh sweet sweet gordo.

SPEAKER_02 43:11

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:12

So he um no, that's really interesting. I mean, I I get so when you're playing that, give me give me that chord progression again. Nah forget it. Let's just say I do it.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

So I was right, Mendel Mendelssohn.

SPEAKER_04 43:26

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

He was uh Tchaikovsky was romantic, Strauss.

SPEAKER_04 43:30

That's uh that's the uh knocker.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

WC what is expression? What is the what comes after? I'm thinking of art. Um I have to know. Sorry. Now you all have to know too. Pretend we're like Joe Rogan looking up stuff.

SPEAKER_04 43:46

So this is the uh this is the Impressionism. Yeah, that's uh that's a music too?

SPEAKER_02 43:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:52

Oh really? Okay. Cool. We'll do one on Impressionism. Sure we will become an expert on that. So um, because I'm an expert on everything we talk about. So far.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

That's the required. We were an expert on your own memories from last time.

SPEAKER_04 44:06

That's true. That was easy. That was easy. This is this is this is tricky for me. So, because I'm not an expert on Gordon Life.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

You're talking about the G sharp major to the C sharp minor.

SPEAKER_04 44:17

Well, this part of the like in the in the chorus, right?

SPEAKER_02 44:26

So it's So that C is a flat seven.

SPEAKER_04 44:29

So when it goes, right? That's the what we're playing, that's the one, right? That's the E. And then but then it goes D. D. So if I'm soloing on it, I gotta do different stuff. I can't just go.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

You're big time changing. You have two whole notes now that if you don't get those right, then it sounds wrong.

SPEAKER_04 44:47

Yeah. So I didn't practice a song enough to really get snappy with those.

SPEAKER_02 44:53

So sometimes when we're doing church praise music, and I'm like, you can't play that there because this has to sound this way. That's what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_04 45:02

I think you said one something like quit making everything sound like a blues song. Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny because I don't really play that much blues, but it's you played a note today during communion.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

I wanted to be like, no half steps during communion. No slides.

SPEAKER_04 45:17

It's so so if I'm playing, you know, if it's in this E.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 45:24

I could play.

SPEAKER_02 45:29

Was that pentatonic?

SPEAKER_04 45:30

Yeah, it's like an E major pentatonic, right?

SPEAKER_02 45:32

Pentatonic for those who don't know. Oh, are five notes only and no half steps.

SPEAKER_04 45:40

Right, so it's doing E, but then it goes to D. I can't keep going. I can, sort of, but I gotta switch it up. So that's why sometimes I'll just cheat. And it's so if I'm playing pentatonic E. And that D comes in, I might go. No, no, no, no. That's not true. I'll no, they'll switch to I'll switch to that D. That pentatonic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or so so it'd be like bum-bum.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

A great way to know if that's the D pentatonic. If what you're gonna play fits is what's the melody doing?

SPEAKER_04 46:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:29

And the reason that the melody is okay with a flat seven is because of the one particular note that you happen to be singing during the time when they go to the flat seven. You could pick any chord you wanted if it had that note in it.

SPEAKER_04 46:40

So tell me this. How come I can also go to I'm pretty sure this is the case, if I'm going, I can also go.

SPEAKER_02 46:53

So it's kind of like a I don't know what the question is. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 47:00

Okay, okay, okay. So this is E, right?

SPEAKER_02 47:02

Yeah. Um gosh, I'm so sorry. I keep hitting the microphone for those of you who don't know.

Carefree Highway: Progression Walkthrough

SPEAKER_04 47:09

This is D.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 47:12

I yeah, I it really would help to know music. So if I'm going E. D. So I can go when it hits the D chord, I can play what I would consider to be an A-shape major, A major, A-shape major scale. So I. But I can play that on the D when it hits the D as long as it's going from the E. Does that make any sense?

SPEAKER_02 47:45

No, but that's more my own personal problem because I'm not familiar with scale patterns on the guitar.

SPEAKER_04 47:50

So I can okay, how about this? So that's a that is a A major pentatonic, but I'm playing it on the D. How does that work?

SPEAKER_02 48:03

So here's the thing. Even though we're in the key of E, and D is a flat seven of E, so a borrowed chord, A works because in a key of A, you have a major D and a major E.

SPEAKER_03 48:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 48:18

It's all about how the chord is spelled and what they have in common. Oh my gosh, I've hit the microphone so many times. What they have in common with the other chords or the single melody line that's being played or sung.

SPEAKER_04 48:33

So you had a you get a you get like a shotgun chance and hitting a lot of is that why when you play jazz?

SPEAKER_02 48:40

No, I don't okay, don't go into jazz because I'm not super good at jazz.

SPEAKER_04 48:43

Well, let me just let me just say this. And I I'm not good at playing jazz either.

SPEAKER_02 48:48

Jazz is all about crazy augmented intervals and borrowed chords and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_04 48:53

Like if that it's for as difficult as it is to play with it, it's also a lot easier because you have like a shotgun. Like you're gonna hit something's gonna work.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

It's usually the changing of if you have a scale degree, so you have a scale and it has three notes in it, C, E, G.

SPEAKER_03 49:11

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 49:12

So it's kind of funky to go from C to C sharp diminished, right? C major to C sharp diminished. The only thing you change is the C goes to a C sharp, but the E and the G stay the same. So a lot of jazz chords, when you go from one thing to the next, they ha they have a lot in common, but their name changes, and that might just be the change of one single note. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04 49:34

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_02 49:35

So three notes are playing at once, and this chord and this chord are called something completely different, but it might just be the change of one note. But in the case of going from C to C sharp diminished, hold on. In the case of going from C to C sharp diminished, you're literally moving the home note, which is a really important note in a chord. The name of the chord is your most important note in the chord. But it's since you're moving it from C to C sharp, it really changes the whole sound.

SPEAKER_04 50:05

Gotcha. I I I I generally get it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:08

It helps because I I think about things in terms of the piano, because that's how I learned to play. Any that was my first instrument, which I would highly recommend being anyone's first instrument if you also want to learn to read music. Because it's incredibly no pun intended, black and white. And then you have a I like anytime where you your mental map is the guitar fretboard, mine is the keyboard.

SPEAKER_04 50:34

Makes sense. Well, you gotta so when you do you ever play riffs on the guitar?

SPEAKER_02 50:40

I only walk bass lines.

SPEAKER_04 50:42

Gotcha. You're pretty good at it.

SPEAKER_02 50:43

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 50:44

You're good at doing that. I've been trying to get better at that. I could slide into stuff on lead and it's like, eh, it's just a basically if I'm playing bass parts though, or at least trying to hit those and you hit them wrong.

SPEAKER_02 51:00

You need to know the relationship between the note that you're at and the one you're going to.

SPEAKER_04 51:03

Yeah. It really And how to get there. Which is. It's not, but Joe Pass, uh, you're familiar with his work? He's a legendary guitar player, jazz guitar player. Like honestly, like maybe like one of the best ever. Um he said uh it should always be easy when you're playing. Like, I think what he means is when you're performing. Like just play what's if you play what's easy, I'm I'm putting words in his mouth, but like Is he dead? Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:34

Oh, so we can say whatever we want that he said.

SPEAKER_04 51:37

Yeah, that's how that works. Yeah, his family will be cool. They'll be like, we pass.

SPEAKER_02 51:41

Are they related to Kitty Wells' family?

SPEAKER_04 51:44

I think they were, yeah, they're the second cousins category.

SPEAKER_02 51:50

Whack V.

SPEAKER_04 51:52

They were whack V cousins, I think.

SPEAKER_02 51:55

Oh my gosh. That's a great idea.

SPEAKER_04 51:57

But that is cousins. Like, so if I'm practicing, I play completely differently than I do if I'm performing. I usually play a very safe, dumbed-down version.

SPEAKER_02 52:10

In your performance.

SPEAKER_04 52:10

In performance of stuff that I except, you know, today when we were playing. I of course I I still screw up, but like Yeah, you just you you know, you you play to your uh play to where you are.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

Well you can't talk when you leave your microphone.

SPEAKER_04 52:28

We're gonna talk about Gordon Lightfoot?

SPEAKER_02 52:29

Let's talk about him a little bit. So here's what I wanted to say about him.

SPEAKER_04 52:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 52:34

Well, I the first and only song I knew for, I don't know, when did I used to work in Columbus? Twenty years ago. Nineteen, twenty years ago was the first time I ever heard of Gordon Lightfoot. And someone requested We had this lyric analysis group, which is exactly what it sounds like. You analyze the lyrics and try to find what the meaning of the song is and how it relates to you personally and stuff. And somebody requested the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Which if you've ever heard of it's Ella Fitzgerald. The wreck of Ella Fitzgerald. There's nothing to analyze. It's literally a story. So there's no real feelings to be like, what is it? What do you think it means when they say this? It's like, this is how many crew were on the ship, you know.

SPEAKER_03 53:21

It's like very sportsmen.

SPEAKER_02 53:25

And yes, and that all it's like two lines of melody repeated for 15 minutes. It's pretty, it's very pretty, it's very sea chanty.

SPEAKER_05 53:34

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 53:34

It's it's an earworm for sure, but it's incredibly boring. And I don't know that it has any curious uh chord, barred chords or anything. So say the thing that you say about Gordon Lightfoot now.

SPEAKER_04 53:49

Well, on that song, one thing is kind of cool about that. So he was it's it's funny, your your the way you're describing it is incredibly accurate. And but it's kind of like I think a reason a lot of people like it is the detail of the story. To the point where where I read this is interesting.

SPEAKER_02 54:13

He when Oh, it looks like it has a borrowed seven.

SPEAKER_04 54:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 54:18

So a flat seven.

SPEAKER_04 54:19

What part would that be?

SPEAKER_02 54:20

Legend lives on from the chip on down. That the big lake, that part is the borrowed seven. Bum bada bum bum bum. I can't sing that though.

SPEAKER_04 54:32

Okay. Well, he actually so there was, I guess, some some news, some facts that came out after he released the song, because it was like a year after.

SPEAKER_02 54:41

Well, well, let's just pause and remember how you and I were watching.

SPEAKER_04 54:45

We're dumb.

SPEAKER_02 54:45

What were we watching? What was that we were watching? It was a documentary about that wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, like real, like nothing to do with the song at all. And I was just like watching and I was like, hey Rob, come in here. Because is this dumb? Because I thought the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald was like in the 1800s, and you're like, Yeah, so did I. It was like the 60s or 70s or something.

SPEAKER_04 55:06

Uh 70s, yeah. I don't know why. I mean, honestly, there's no expensive.

SPEAKER_02 55:12

Because it sounds like a pirate song, that's why. Yeah. It's it doesn't say the date in the song, so I think we were dead when it was when it happened.

Soloing Choices, Flat Seven, And Melody

SPEAKER_04 55:20

The uh Grey Lux Brewery screwed up a lot of my brain for different reasons, but I think I think I like they have a drink called like a beer called Commodore Perry. Oh and uh basically all these bodies of water, you know, there's um Holy Moses and uh Burning River.

SPEAKER_02 55:42

Is there a wreck of Christmas?

SPEAKER_04 55:44

There's there's Evan Fitzgerald. So in my mind, I had it associated with Perry.

SPEAKER_02 55:48

Is there any walking Phoenix juice? Poor Logan. Logan comes back, he's making full circle.

SPEAKER_04 55:53

It's just all over this thing. So uh yeah, I I just had it in my mind that it was an older.

SPEAKER_02 56:01

Yeah, I thought it I I thought it was an older wreck.

SPEAKER_04 56:03

Clearly, I'm a fool.

SPEAKER_02 56:05

But so anyway, so then he writes the song and then more facts come out. And did he have to edit the words?

SPEAKER_04 56:09

He changed the words of the song when he was touring.

SPEAKER_02 56:12

Now, did you look that up for the purposes of this podcast?

SPEAKER_04 56:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 56:15

So what did he have to change?

SPEAKER_04 56:16

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 56:17

Are you kidding? I'm sorry. Look it up. I don't know. Crap. I'll look it up I'll look it up like that.

SPEAKER_04 56:22

I'll talk more about old Gordy. Um so I'm not a uh I'm not a huge Gordon Life of fan. I I think he's an incredible songwriter. Uh and I I don't want uh what's his face, Wayne from Letter Canada to beat the crap out of me.

SPEAKER_02 56:42

Oh, is he Canadian?

SPEAKER_04 56:43

Oh yeah. Yeah, he's he's very Canadian. He's like a Canadian um treasure, national treasure.

SPEAKER_02 56:51

So I love You just see the audience in Canada, they don't like this part.

SPEAKER_04 56:56

They would they will like oh what, me, uh oh right, because of the name of the show. Yeah. And also they're not gonna like what I'm saying about Gordon Lightfoot.

SPEAKER_02 57:03

They're gonna they're not gonna like that. I didn't even know he was Canadian.

SPEAKER_04 57:06

Yeah. And he's their treasure.

SPEAKER_02 57:07

They're not gonna like who's our treasure here in the United States.

SPEAKER_04 57:11

Uh your mom.

SPEAKER_02 57:14

Elton John.

SPEAKER_04 57:17

Huh.

SPEAKER_02 57:18

Do we have an American treasure here?

SPEAKER_04 57:20

Oh, I thought you meant like a treasurer.

SPEAKER_02 57:22

Why would I mean that?

SPEAKER_04 57:24

I don't know. I don't know if we have uh I would say uh Brittany Spears. Yeah, Elton John would we can we can't claim him as ours, can't we?

SPEAKER_02 57:33

No, it was a joke.

unknown 57:34

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 57:36

That's good. Uh we could say uh I think it's fair to say Jack Burton.

SPEAKER_02 57:40

Oh wow, he's not a musician. Or real.

SPEAKER_04 57:44

I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 57:44

Or real.

SPEAKER_04 57:45

You don't know Kurt Russell then.

SPEAKER_02 57:47

I thought we were musicians. Okay, here's what he had to change. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_04 57:50

Kurt Russell is our national treasure. We'll put him up against Court Life any day.

SPEAKER_02 57:54

Um the only one it's kind that our friend Chad has come back with is uh he changed it from at 7 p.m. a main hatchway caved in. He said, Fellas, it's been good to know yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:09

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 58:09

But he changed it to very, very different. At 7 p.m. it grew dark. It was then he said, Fellas, it's been good to know yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:19

See? I mean he was a stickler. What was the difference there?

SPEAKER_02 58:25

He said he changed it to avoid suggesting crew error.

SPEAKER_04 58:30

Oh, interesting. He cared.

SPEAKER_02 58:34

And also there's another one lyric where they say in a musty old hall in Detroit they prayed. Uh, but apparently the people of the Detroit church were offended by the musty. So they changed it to Maritime Sailors Cathedral Cathedral.

SPEAKER_04 58:54

Are you kidding me? That's what the Is there anything I'm sure he's just like, any anybody else have any complaints? Anyone upset about, I don't know, singing about facts? Facts, yeah. It was he's like, it is guys, it was musty.

SPEAKER_02 59:08

The world we live in, Rob.

SPEAKER_04 59:09

Prove it was not musty.

SPEAKER_02 59:10

The burden of proof is on the proof doesn't matter anymore.

SPEAKER_04 59:13

Then 1976 either, or whatever that was written. Or 1876 as far as we're concerned.

SPEAKER_02 59:18

1820. I thought it was 1820.

SPEAKER_04 59:20

So Gordon Lightfoot, great songwriter. His just his lyrics are they are they're very lovely. They can be his um I I I'm assuming he wrote most of the music. I mean, I think he wrote his songs through and through. Like I think he chose the I mean he's definitely a singer songwriter, right? That's for sure.

SPEAKER_05 59:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:44

And I mean, and he actually like Elvis I mean he's he's he's been around. I know like a lot of other singer singer songwriters have a lot of love for him. Pretty much I like everything about him, except I just I get fatigue listening to them. I can't explain it. It's almost like the same way. Now I'm really gonna make people upset.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:07

They are not gonna like this.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:09

No, they're not. Gordon Lightfoot, Eddie Vetter. Um who's that Mumford and Sons guy?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:18

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:19

Can't now I'm sad.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:21

Yeah. Fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:22

No, I'm offended. So they all have it's it's very chanting. Yeah, it's very traditional.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:30

Slow starts and start.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:31

You didn't want to put some sort of warning out of that.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:34

He will say, he'll throw something out there and then just rip you right back. And it's just like, oh my gosh. And like I there's other bands that I like that where their singers will have those characteristics. But it's almost like like Jeff Rotol, for instance. Ian Anderson kind of. But he'll have a three-minute jam jam session in between where I kind of get a break. Get a break from it. And it's like, okay. Gordon Lightfoot, though.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:05

He sings you straight.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:06

He just sings all the way through. Because he's a good, he's got a great voice. Again, not saying he's not great. He's just not for me. It's okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:14

You can say whatever you want.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:15

He's so I can listen to like three Gordon Lightfoot songs, and I'm like, I don't even know any more than the two we've talked about today. This song is uh Do I? Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:27

Don't give me too much credit.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:29

Uh I don't know stuff. Sundown. Sundown. You've did it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:34

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:36

I'm sure that's just borrowing all sorts of chords. Sounds like.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:40

Um, I wonder why his borrowed chords are. If you could read my mind. Sing that.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:45

If you could read my mind, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:48

I don't know that one. I think you've exhausted what I know.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:51

Alright. I I I bet he's one of those dudes who you're like, I don't know any Gordon Life with songs, and you get his great assets, and you're like, oh, I know every one of them. Every single one. I'm singing along to all of them. Except you can't listen to them all the way through because it's fatiguing.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:03

Mm-hmm. But I So you feel that way?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:05

Do you so you feel that way?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:06

I don't feel that way as much about Carefree Highway.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:09

No, carefree highway.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:10

The verses and the choruses are pretty different. They take places in different they take. I guess it is pretty similar, isn't it? There's something that feels different though about the verse and the chorus. Where like Edmund Fitzgerald, there's no chorus. It's the same thing over and over and over.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:34

Which I'm sure was an artistic choice. Isn't that kind of how sea shanty?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:40

Sounds like he was just capitalizing on someone's pain.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:42

I don't think that's what he was doing. People are just kidding.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:46

I just said that to make the audience really mad. I think I heard that about him that he was a huge jerk. He liked to profit off of other people's misery. I think that's true. I think that ChatGPT told me that. When I asked him if it was true, it was like, yes, you're doing great.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:03

Sam Altman hates him too.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:04

I don't know who that is.

Jazz Touchpoints And Voice Leading

SPEAKER_04 1:03:06

The CEO of OpenAI. The paracompany of Chat GPT. Anyways, yeah, I still I was I was um I think I I think he kind of sounds like he sings sort of sings like a pirate.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:19

Totally.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:19

So it makes sense that he also acts like one.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:23

Does he have a peg leg?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:25

Dude, there's I cannot tell you how many people are gonna be just absolutely furious by everything we're saying.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:31

We chose a song of his to highlight, to show in you know, musical mystery and listen to this, this, this, this, and this, and tell me, tell me that's not the most beautiful motherland of Canada, Yukon.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:49

Hatchet. I think the book Hatchet was just filmed.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:52

Read Hatchet. What you gotta do? You gotta put on just put on uh can you see the Northern Lights from Canada? Oh, I'm sure you can.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:03

We can see them here. Yeah, so ha.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:06

I'm sure he's got a song about the Northern Lights, probably.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:09

Have we been talking for 45 years or more?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:11

We've been talking for an hour and five minutes.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:14

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:16

Yeah. That is his real name, though, Gordon Lightfoot. You know his you know his middle name?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:21

Let me try to guess.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:23

Gordon.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:25

You're not gonna get it unless you know it.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:28

Uh Calliope. Lightfoot. Is that right?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:34

Close, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:35

What is it?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:35

Uh just about, yeah. Uh if you if you raise the fourth scale degree. Scale degree, you get Meredith.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:43

Whoa. Yeah, Meredith Wilson. He's a uh that's who wrote um The Music Man.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:50

We got Burgess Meredith.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:52

Well, that's a last name. But Meredith. I my name is a man's name originally.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:58

Leslie. Remember Leslie Nielsen?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:00

I yeah, we watched it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:02

From the YouTube collection.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:05

Clips. Last night, also known as we gotta watch the new one.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:10

Yeah, we should watch all of them. Because I'm not sure I've ever sat and watched all of them.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:16

I know I've seen them all. I've seen the first one.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:18

How about airplane?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:19

Yeah, I'll watch airplane any day.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:21

I'll watch that with my dad.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:22

Second one's not bad either.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:24

Airplane two? Snakes on an airplane.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:26

Yeah. Get these we want to talk about with uh Gordon or uh Gordon's fisherman or Fisherman's friend. Fisherman's friend. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:43

Is that the uh that's a nasty uh code? Yeah, for your throats. Hmm. If you have multiple throats.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:53

Yeah, so we miss you, buddy.

Gordon Lightfoot: Songs, Facts, And Edits

SPEAKER_02 1:05:56

You uh Gordon Life, a lot of people love your music. We love a lot of things about your music. We love Canada.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:03

He was actually a really good guy from what I read. He did a lot of uh donations, like without asking for any kind of no one asking him to.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:11

Did he uh ever pal around with Bob Ross?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:13

I'd like to think so.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:14

I think that they are like of a of similar caliber.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:18

Caliber of human? Human? Like both on the same on the same level?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:24

Perhaps, yeah. You think Bob Ross is up up to this up to the Gordon Lightfoot snuff.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:30

So we're saying like if we had to rank them as far as just like they're getting away.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:34

I just mean like they're cut from the same cloth.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:36

Yeah, I see the I see.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:39

They both are from the 70s. Why is it they both feel like I think they're both 70s celebrities, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:44

Is it because we're idiots?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:45

It's probably that. Is that what it is? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:47

No, I no, I could I'm I'm a bit more on the bob Bob Ross train.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:52

I mean, it could be argued that every single thing he paints looks the same.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:57

But that was kind of his thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:59

So maybe that was Gordon Linefoot.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:01

Somebody, I heard somebody one time compare him to like Billy Squire or somebody, in terms of he's not the greatest painter, he's not the greatest artist, but in terms of art, he's really good at this one thing. Like he's the man. So, like, I don't know if it was the Billy Squire comparison, but if you like that glam rock power core, just fun kind of yeah, that's your thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:30

Or in the case of Gordon Lightfoot, if you like storytelling in a repetitive earworm way, I I gotta say, we probably should listen to some more Gordon Lightfoot.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:41

You can't take the Edmund Fitzgerald. The rock of the Edmund Fitzgerald and base his entire catalog on that song.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:48

But I had a patient once, I had a patient once that wanted only wanted to hear that, and I probably played it every week for eight weeks.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:56

Okay, I could see why you feel that way.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:59

Walk a mile in my shoes.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:03

You better have some light feet.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:05

I have to use a capo on that song too.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:08

What so, okay, I got a question for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:10

Okay. Um before we wrap up.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:12

Before we wrap up.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:13

I'm hungry.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:14

So I don't know, I never play with a capo.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:16

What?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:17

Uh just never have. But I know you sing. Okay. That's why. What does that have to do with anything? Well, for me, if I if I what I'm gonna ask is, what's the point?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:28

Okay, well, if you have a guitar, the first fret. Check. Okay, the first fret. Is that thing called the nut?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:38

Um what? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:41

Okay, that's your first node, N-O-D-E.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:44

And so then anytime you play a string, anytime you push down on any fret, what you're doing is shortening the string in the world of physics. Got it. So now the vibration frequency is more, which makes a higher pitch sound. Right. So all a capo does is create a new starting node.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:04

It bars bars it for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:06

It's basically barring it for you, yes. And so if I want to play in the key of D flat, like if it's better for me to sing, uh it it raises the pitch. So you can play, put your capo on, you know, the second fret, and now instead of playing you can play all your C chords if you're like not as you know very skilled or whatever. You only know your C chords now you put you the song's in D, you just put the capo on the second fret, play your C chords, and now you're ringing in D.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:33

So what's that to do with singing? It just makes it easier because the chords are easier?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:36

A lot. No, it raises the pitch. Like physically, if I literally cannot sing that record that even fitzgerald because it gets too low for my the anatomy of my voice to sing.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:45

Oh, so what you're saying is if if the band that you're with is playing or whatever, they're all designed on a key. Wait, no, that doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:54

No, it's it's really for me, and I'm sure all the capo users out there are gonna hate me, but for me, it's about raising the pitch up so that I can sing it, like physically make a sound.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:03

But why not just play it?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:06

I might be partial to a certain key.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:08

Different key.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:09

Or what I mean, like oh, okay, here's a great example. So uh let's see, this uh what's that Tom Petty song? Dum, dun dun dum. Free falling? Yeah. That relies very heavily on playing the D, the way, like in the home space, right? To to play that. So you don't want to lose that. You don't want to lose the the position.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:34

So kind of this open, like uh like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:40

Remove your ring finger.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:42

Oh. So it just has a more of a breathy?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:48

No.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:48

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:49

Literally, it's now pretend we put a capo on the second fret. Okay. So now you have to play just pretend.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:57

So play a D as if you have a capo. Where would your D be now if that was Well it'd be here. Right. Just play those three notes. And now bring your now play this song. So now the integrity of the original is intact. But it's higher now for me. Now it is easier for me to sing it because I'm a woman singing a man's song, and it's often not a good key for me.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:22

So you'd be playing the D. So it's like a sh transcription shortcut, sorta?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:30

So instead of me physically playing a different key, I can play the play what's written on the page the way that I know it, but I'm just shortening it up so the physics are ringing shortly.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:40

Okay, I got so I got that. Uh I mean I I kind of knew that, um, although that definitely helps paint the picture. What uh what I was kind of getting to though was there are okay, Gordon Lightfoot apparently played this song with a capo on the second front. And and it was uh what D? And forget it. Whatever. He played a capot on the second front. I don't have a capo, I didn't play it.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:04

I just Yeah, I did, I transposed it on the keyboard.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:06

So if I keep saying transcribe, transpose that's the word.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:09

So I transcribe means write. Right. Write it down. Um but I so I did that when I played the keyboard. I played the keyboard in D, but I had it transposed to E. So Because the music was written in D. So why did he do it that way? Maybe he didn't like to play in E. But he wanted to sing it in E.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:27

Whoa. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:29

Like he didn't maybe he liked the chord shapes of D better.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:32

How come, okay, there's um so it's not always because I I know the answer to this, but this kind of was building into. I I was always I've always thought that if you play with a you play with a capo because you don't know bar chords. Which I know is the case for some people.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:50

But I know it's not the like like when uh like Johnny Marr um from uh The Smiths, he plays with a capo a lot. Like that song Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now is play with a capo. Okay. I was like, why is he playing with a capo? Like he obviously he's a mate, incredible guitar player. Um so I just don't know. But it's like way up.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:13

But maybe he's like having some open what about if a song is in like a flat, I don't know flat chords on the guitar. So I would just put it in A and capo it up to B flat. You know what I mean? To play A chords, because I don't I'm not as you know smart. I but I don't know why a professional musician who's writing their own music would use a capo. I don't really know the answer to that.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:34

It could be, maybe it's like okay. I'm I'm I'm trying, I'm kind of trying to figure out. So, you know, if I'm playing this, what is this, a B? Yeah, it's a B. Okay, so but I I could also play it here. Sorry, that's not that's bad. With that open E. Maybe, maybe if you have something going on like that in the song and you you don't want to tune your car guitar.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:08

Right, yeah, so now you shorten it up, so now your string is ringing that.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:13

That's what it is then.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:14

Yeah. Huh. We figured it out. That's what I was trying to get at with the free fallen.

Capos, Keys, And Guitar Shapes

SPEAKER_04 1:14:18

Like you want to still play the same pattern.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:20

So this so it sounds like the original song.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:23

Because if I was playing it up here.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:24

Now try to play it in E.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:26

I'd have to like switch.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:28

Try to play it in E. Like literally play the open E.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:33

That's that's in here.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:34

No, I mean play an open E like a home E chord.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:38

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:40

Yeah. So because the string, now try to figure out how to play the same sound in that position.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:46

Well, I'd have to go like this.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:48

With a capable one, yes. Yeah. If you want to play all six strings.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:52

And here I'm kind of playing this. Uh, what is that? A triad? An E-triad? Wait, no. It'd be an A. An A. Wait. No. Well, B.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:03

It'd be a B.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:04

A B.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:05

I think the audience is.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:07

Alright, they are done with us. Guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:09

Thanks for coming. Whoa, yeah, just throw that anywhere.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:13

It'll be, see, it's kinda it'll be real.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:15

Rob plays a tailor.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:17

Uh-huh. Oh. Did that die?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:19

Oh, that's probably for the best.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:22

When did it die?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:24

Well, the audio's still going, so let's wish our audience a fair one.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:29

You guys have a wonderful time. Thank you. Uh listening.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:32

Love and light to all the Gordon Lightfoot fans and Canadians.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:35

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:37

Just like us.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:38

We I'd say it's safe to say we love them.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:40

We do. We love you. Our neighbors up north. Thanks for tuning in.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:44

And South.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:46

And the Mexicans.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:47

Was do we know are we sure that he's Canadian and not Mexican?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:52

I'm not sure, and we should. That's a mystery for another one.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:55

Alright, we're gonna work on that one. It'll be on the next episode.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:57

It'll be was it'll it'll be Was Gordon Lightfoot really Mexican and now the Canadians really mad.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:06

Why would they be mad?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:07

If he was Mexican.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:08

Because we told we they stole him.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:11

And now everyone knows why.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:12

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:14

This is really getting interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:15

Should we clap ourselves out?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:16

Should we just extend the episode?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:18

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:19

Bonus content for the Patreon. This is our legendary Mexican Gorn Life photo. What's Michael Scott's acting Oscar? It's like why would I be offended by that?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:34

All right, goodbye.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:35

Bye.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:36

Copped us out.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:39

Uh I don't have to stop the movie.