Episode 17: Amanda

Amanda, 49 is embracing her mid-century life, honoring change, inspiring artists, and giving zero f**ks.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi everybody and welcome back to the Niners podcast, where we learn from people living on the edge, the edge of a decade, the edge of a century, or those about to bring a new life onto this planet. Today I'm interviewing Amanda. And before we begin the interview, I want to share a couple things. One, this is super special because it's March 9th when we're releasing this episode, the day after the International Day of the Woman. And Amanda shares a lot about what it's like to be a woman at 49, about to turn 50, we talk about perimenopause. And Amanda asked me as I share this, when she says the word woman, she meant it means any human with a uterus. We're thrilled to hear her words, her thoughts. And then secondly, I've had the opportunity to recently interview Amanda's father who is 91 now. So our next drop on March 19th is gonna be his interview.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Perimenopause. 39-year-old women. You are not the same as a 39-year-old man. Perimenopause can happen in your 30s. It's real, it doesn't make any sense. Like weird things will happen to your body, and doctors will try to explain it the way they would explain it to a man's body. Like things like your shoulder freezes up. Like your shoulder, it's called frozen shoulder. None of us know about that. It's real. Like, what's wrong with my shoulder? It's perimenopause. So your hormones, like whooshing out of your body, is real. So all 39-year-old women start paying attention and advocate for yourself with the healthcare system. Listen to people's stories. Like the only way I've been doing community-driven art for 30 years now. And I fully, wholeheartedly, absolutely believe that the only way we make the world better is to do each other's stories. And to ask, do what you're doing in this podcast. The guy at Starbucks where you get your coffee and see what his deal is. Like just to know, to know who other people are in the world. I think we're all afraid of that. We're afraid to talk to each other.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Good morning, good afternoon, good whatever time it is that you are tuning in to the Niners podcast. I'm your host, Tim Cunningham, and I am thrilled as always to have the profound opportunity to listen to folks. Today, we are honored to learn a little bit from Amanda. Amanda, hi, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Hi, I'm great. Super happy to be here.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

It is so good to see you again. I think the last time I saw you was at your wedding, which was far too long ago to have not seen you since, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Yeah, too long. Too long. Yes, I think that's right. Yeah. Three years.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Three years.

unknown 2:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Wow. So we're here, on the edge.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

So here we are, on the edge. And right now. Amanda, right now, how old are you?

SPEAKER_00 2:45

49.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

49, on the edge of 50. Um, how about some background? Can you tell us a little bit of this about where you're from and where you currently live?

SPEAKER_00 2:54

I am from Charlottesville, Virginia, and I've lived in Los Angeles for um 16 years. So I call the West Coast home now. Now I'm also up and down the West Coast between Portland, Oregon, and Los Angeles.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Right on. Tell us a little bit about how you how you like to spend your time.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

I'm a theater artist. I'm a producer. I'm a director. I'm an educator. I work in social justice theater. So I work with communities to make theater about what's important to them, which means I don't make any money, but I have a very satisfying life. Currently, I'm working with veterans to use Shakespeare to tell their stories. I'm working with high school students where we pay them an hourly wage to do a production. In the past, I've taught in women's and men's institutions, correctional institutions. So that's really where my heart and passion are is all types of live art making that heal and connect.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

I feel like every time we do touch base, even if it is at three-year intervals, you're always doing something brand new or five something's brand new. And I have the best memory. You directed a show at UVA forever ago. I I forget the name of it, but the opening of the show with all the characters walking down the stairs in the round with their headsets.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Yes, I love pure magic. That was uh The Wolves by Sarah Zelat about a girls' soccer team. I love that you remember that opening because beginnings are so important. The freaking audience sees on stage. That's what's gonna hook you in. So I love that you named that.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Oh yeah, you nailed it. And the way you staged it and the way, like, I think you shared with me, none of your actors were like that great at soccer, but the way you staged it and choreographed it, it was just it was so good. So, so so good.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

I do appreciate that. I'm about to do a production of Paracles, I should also say. Like I'm right on, I'm also on the edge of going into doing a new um piece with a new group of folks. Which I'm all right.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

What's what so what's that like for you to be on that that creative edge?

SPEAKER_00 4:57

It's always like it's because I work so much with ensembles and the humans matter who I'm working with. It's it's never like I'm just doing another play. It's like, what am I gonna learn from these people? What are we gonna create? I was working on my script last night. I was like, I don't know what this moment's gonna look like. We're just gonna see and rehearsal. Like, I'm not a director who's like, here's how we do the pirate ship. It's gonna be like in the room. Like, what have you got? What have you got? What do you think? How do we make a pirate ship? And then we get to create it together and it will exist, which is always true of theater, but I think if you're more prescriptive, then you don't feel as on the edge. Whereas I always like feel on the edge, like this is gonna be such a cool journey.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

A next journey, tell me a little bit about you are 49, so you're on the edge of being 50. What what what excites you the most about moving into the next decade?

SPEAKER_00 5:44

I really want to keep giving less fucks. In my 40s, I've really felt that wisdom, like that I get to own it finally, and then I'm excited about in my 40s, like stepping into my power even more. I don't think I actually stepped into my power until my 40s to really my friend has a t-shirt she made that says big crone energy. Lean into my crone years. This is it. I think we struggle so much in the arts too. Me specifically with imposter syndrome and um and all kinds of inferiority complexes. Again, like I was saying, it took me a long time to step into my powers. I think I feel like my 50s is like a permission to stop being afraid.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

All right.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

I think I've always had more fear than I thought I've had.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Amanda, when did you stop giving fucks? You said you started stepping to your wisdom in your 40s. Yeah. Was that as at the same time, or did you stop giving fucks before then?

SPEAKER_00 6:39

I I felt my felt myself giving fewer fucks, and then it's gotten stronger through my 40s. And then my journey in my 40s really has been stepping into queerness. So I was a queer kid who wasn't allowed to be a queer kid after grow up in central Virginia with conservative parents. And it took me, which I kind of marvel at now, but we all have our own journey. It really took me until my mid-40s to be like, I am a fully queer person. I identify as queer. This is how I'm gonna live my life. And it was so freeing. So that was also connected to giving a few of those, like realizing that when I look back over my life, I'm like, God, I've always been so queer. But I but but the forces, the societal forces, the family forces was all so pressing down so hard that I didn't just ever allow myself. It was always just a little voice that's like, you're queer, but don't go too far into it, don't talk about it, do it, you know, kind of keep it a secret or like tell some people. So it was giving fewer fucks and stepping into queerness was kind of also an unraveling of the things you're supposed to do. So that's been my big journey.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Now into the age of crone. How do you define crone? What is the ideal crone state?

SPEAKER_00 7:51

So the archetype, I also identify as a witch. So the archetypes that we're working with, the maiden, the mother, and the crone. And so the maiden are the, you know, in those years of like coming into being, the mother is those years of tending, of caretaking. And then the crone is you've you've moved through all that and you're the wisdom keepers, you're the holders of space. You're the you're I feel like you've moved through fear and you are. It's a time of like channeling something bigger. It's a time of channeling and and and stepping, being strong in your wisdom and not afraid to share it because you're not having to caretake. I've never birthed a child. I've birthed a lot of things, I've birthed a lot of of um of artistic things, I've birthed a lot of communities, a lot of caretaking. And so I feel like also wisdom is also just opening that up so that you are taking you are in touch with something higher as opposed to caretaking something small.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Yeah, yeah. Amanda, I'm hearing so much of this movement deeper into your own wisdom that that's always been there and you're tapping it now in a different way, giving less fucks. Any other advice if you could go back a decade ago that you would give to yourself that you know now, what would you love to have known then?

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Uh it would be real it would be related. It would be really release fear, like actually release fear, which I haven't been able to do yet. Um, but to to name fear, I think I at 39 I was still like, I'm not afraid of anything. And then, but why am I not just saying why am I not really going for things? So just naming it, I would tell myself to name it and do the work to move through it. I would also tell myself that she's super hot. I spent a lot of time like thinking about my body too much and comparing it to other people's. And now in my 40s, living in a bigger body, because perimenopause is real. That's the other thing that I want all women in their 40s to know. So any women, this may be a different question, but any woman who's 39 who I'm giving advice to is like perimenopause is fucking real. And so, us getting older, women being in their 40s is nothing like men being in their 40s. Weird shit will happen to you, and nobody tells you that. Perimenopause can start in your 30s, nobody tells us that. So you're like, why am I gaining all this weight? Or like, why am I like so tired? Why am I, why does my knee hurt? Like, science does not look at menopause. Like, med school doesn't have a menopause section, and so it is the wild west. And I I would have liked to have told my 39-year-old self, like, shit, it's gonna get wild in your body because it's like the four your 40s are. I feel like when your body finally starts to be like, this is you've been doing this with your knee 40 years, you're gonna start to feel something different, right? Because like in even in your 30s, I've heard some people say 30s feel that way. For me, I didn't. I felt exactly the same through my 30s, and then in my 40s, it's like aging, aging is aging is happening to me now. And what does that mean? And so you are in it. You're actually in it. So I would tell myself, look out, stay strong. You're super hot right now. You're you're gonna be hot later. You're just gonna look different, embrace. Yeah, don't be afraid.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

You know, I remember in nursing school we had a great one of my favorite professors taught pathophysiology. She was a physician and then became a nurse because she really saw the value, the deep value of nurses. And she was a great lecturer, but we only got one lecture on what she called the changes. And she kind of joked about, she said, this is about menopause, hardly mentioned perimenopause. And and but she raised that point too. She said, There's no good science on this because the white men running all the research for years and years and years were like, No, no, no, we don't touch that.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

No, not studied.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

So great advice to give to a 39-year-old. It's real. Amanda, what worries you about the next 10 years? What what keeps you up at night?

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Body stuff. Like, I'm excited to be in the years of wisdom, but also that like I'm not the best caretaker. I'm very much a like bon vivant. Like, what feels good? What tastes good? La la, you know, and so in my 50s, I feel like I'm gonna have to start being really diligent about taking care of my insides. Like, I feel very young, like emotionally, I feel very young. But what worries me is the like physical stuff I'm gonna have to like really pay attention to. Like, I went to the doctor recently and it was like, I was like, oh, okay. They're like, your blood pressure is high. I'm like, what? Literally, I've never had anything weird at the doctor. And it was just like bam. So stuff like that, you know, that I can't do anything about. Just trying to sit with it.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

And so in sitting with it, tell me a little more about what you can do about it.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

I think it's so much about mindfulness, it's so much about being present with what is and not fighting and not struggling. And then and then for me personally, the work of make sure you go for a walk, it'll feel as good as if you take a nap. So they're just trying to nourish new ways of being in my body that I haven't yet. So I so me and my wife talk a lot about where do we want to be that where we feel like we can move our bodies forward in time in a way that allows us to be present and peaceful.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Advice question. You already mentioned it. Advice to give to a 39-year-old. Two-part question. Can you repeat it to make sure all 39-year-old folks who are on the cusp are in perimenopause here at one? And two, any other advice that you might give to another niner of any decade.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Perimenopause. 39-year-old women, you are not the same as a 39-year-old man. Perimenopause can happen in your 30s. It's real, it doesn't make any sense. Like weird things will happen to your body, and doctors will try to explain it the way they would explain it to a man's body. Like things like your shoulder freezes up. Like your shoulder, it's called frozen shoulder. None of us know about that. It's real. Like, what's wrong with my shoulder? It's perimenopause. So your hormones like whooshing out of your body is real. So, all 39-year-old women start paying attention and advocate for yourself with the healthcare system. And HRT is not a bad thing. Raised in the 80s, we were all told that HRT was an evil thing and nobody should do it. So I just cannot stress enough for 39-year-old women to just name it, pay attention to it, and advocate for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Awesome. Could you clarify for the audience in case they don't know what's HRT?

SPEAKER_00 14:37

Hormone replacement therapy. Yeah. Get get in, get that right cocktail for yourself, which I'm actually about to do. I haven't had a lot of hot flashes. I've had other things happening. But again, so you also hear like you only need HRT if you're having hot flashes. That's not true either. Look, it can take care of a lot of things, like being tired all the time.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Any other advice not related to periomenopause that you might want to share to another decade?

SPEAKER_00 15:03

I hesitate to give advice to people older than me because I really respect that. But younger, listen to stories. I older too. Listen to people's stories. Like the only way I've been doing community-driven art for 30 years now. And I fully, wholeheartedly, absolutely believe that the only way we make the world better is to listen to your stories. And to ask, do what you're doing in this podcast. Talk to the guy at Starbucks where you get your coffee and see what his deal is. Like just to know to know who other people are in the world. I think we're all afraid of that. We're afraid to talk to each other. Find a ways to do it.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

I think we also we we're losing skills on how to manage our feelings when we do talk to someone and we feel a way. It's okay to feel.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Even though we've we've we've programmed ourselves to turn off our feelings by just scrolling on to the next thing or swiping again and swiping again.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

I had the most bizarre experience related to that on the plane a few days ago. I sat in the wrong window seat. I just misread the number. And this family sat next to me, a mom and her daughter, and the plane was boarding. They were getting settled in. I was settled in. A guy comes up at the end of boarding and he's like, Well, that's my seat to me. And I was like, I was like, Oh, yeah, sure, I'll move. But the woman and her daughter, she hadn't said anything to me for like a full 10 minutes. And I was like, Hey, why didn't you say anything? I could have just moved. I'm in the wrong seat. She's like, Well, I didn't, I just didn't. And she trailed off. And to me, it was a moment of we're so afraid to talk to. Maybe people are afraid to get yelled at. We're afraid to advocate for ourselves. But I'm like, I'm clearly in your seat. You are fully right here. And I was thinking you have proof. And you were still afraid to ask me to move. It was such an interesting moment for me on like human connection. Even when there's an undeniable thing like that, I'm in your seat. Like you decided to settle yourself and your child into the wrong seats because you were afraid to talk to a stranger. So emblematic for me.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

I mean, back in the day, at least in this country, to speak from my experience, back in the day, we would say hi to people on planes. Yeah. And anymore. Yeah. I've been and I've tried to talk. I'm kind of a chatty Kathy sometimes. I like to talk. Yeah. But I try to talk to people.

unknown 17:18

No.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

It's really rare to have a conversation on a plane in this country, it seems. It's it's a bummer.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

It's a bummer. I know. We've lost these parasocial relationships, they're called. These parasocial.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Is that like perimenopause?

SPEAKER_00 17:34

It's not as bad. No, it's a good thing. Para P-A-R-A. There's you know, where you like we lost him in the pandemic too, like the guy that you get your coffee from every day. You're not friends, but you have a relationship. You are in community with each other, and you know some things about each other, and it matters. It like makes the makes our days, our lives expand. Talking to people on planes.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

I want to hear more, Amanda, about mattering. What matters most to you?

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Peace. People finding their joy and finding the thing that they are. I I want everybody to know that you don't have to do anything anybody tells you to do. I want people to know that your own peace and your own joy is is not related to capitalism. That also matters. I'm saying a lot of things that matter to me.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

You can have multiple matters.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Multiple matters. That that there are systems that exist that are not real. I often say time is not real. Clocks are not real, but our whole life revolves around them. What what is the what is the you? What is the thing that you need to feel whole? And then absolutely related a thing that matters to me so deeply is community. Those things are real. We need to know ourselves and we need to know who's taking care of us and who we're taking care of. We are biologically supposed to exist in community. That's it. We're not so you know, nations aren't real, states aren't real, governments aren't real, taxes aren't real, capitalism isn't real. Humans and our relationship to each other is what's real. But that matters to me. I want everybody to know that community is absolutely huge. It's proven if you don't have community, you like have a shorter lifespan. You probably know what that than I do, but that's real. And the nuclear family is not real. I also want people to know that that was invented. Gender isn't real. Sex isn't real.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

I was about to say nuclear family was invented by one gender to control the other, but that just skewed my argument since gender is not real either.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Yeah. They invented gender and then they try to oppress us all with it.

unknown 19:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

I want I want queer people to teach everyone how to be. You know, and there are straight people, I don't want to call you straight, but there are people who maybe don't identify fully as queer who live in a queer way. And I think you do that so well. Like, how are we in space? How do we hold space for each other? How do we take care of each other? That's what queer people know inherently, because they've we've had to grow up on the edge or in the margins, like being 49. We've had to find the way to create what we need because it doesn't exist. Something's wrong. Like me as a little kid knew like my wife knew early. She was like, Oh, I'm gay, that's why I don't fit. Me was just like, something doesn't fit. Like, I'm in the wrong family, I'm in the wrong place. I don't know what it is. And so we make these spaces, we make a space that that is outside of the rules that exist. So I think we have we have so much to teach.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Thank you for making yes, I agree. Thank you for uh teaching us. Thank you for thank uh yeah, thank you for our friendship. Thank you for seeing me for who I am, because I struggle with my own personal labels as you struggle too, and and it it context and all of that. And may we continue to make space to teach and learn and listen.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

You and I were little weird kids in central Virginia, and we've been friends a long time because we saw each other because of that.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Yeah. You know, remember when our sisters tried to hook us up when they we went to Ben and Jerry's. Was it a blind date or something? Like looking back.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

No, it was tried. Did you no, I didn't either.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

No, like 10 years later, I was scratching my head. I was like, was this the plan?

SPEAKER_00 21:19

I think it was the plan.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Sorry, sisters. I mean, forever. Thanks for this great friendship.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Yeah, and you're so dear to me and good for them. But yeah, like we saw each other and have always. And and I know you, you know, we don't all fit with our families of origin, which is another thing of mattering. I'd love people to know that your families of origin don't matter as much as people tell you they do related to you family. But you are allowed to create the family that you want and make that your family, and not be afraid of it. I I see so many people struggle so much with trying to make their family of origin into what they want it to be. Like you don't have to. Do that. There's other people who love you. There's nothing you want to show you.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

And that's more work sometimes. But so healthy. And you find that love. Yes. And they find you. Yes. Amanda, this has been great. Is there anything else you want to share before we wrap this up?

SPEAKER_00 22:15

There was something that just popped into my mom. It's about parameters. I also make sure. Perry menopause! Little! It makes you have little brain gaps. This feels warm and lovely and it's really great to be. I've just turned 49. So this is also like helping me like be like, oh yeah, okay, here we are. There you go. This is the edge. Next year's big. And it doesn't feel big. Again, you just just do it, just live in my life. It's very weird to get to the point in your life where you're like as a little kid, you were like, that person's old.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Like this. What was that age? What was the age when you thought people were old when you were a kid? I mean, not your age, but like how old was that person that you called old?

SPEAKER_00 22:58

I remember these and 55 was like, remember when we were kids, 55 was senior citizen.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Yeah. Yeah. And 40 was over the hill. There are all of these like over the hill parties.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

Yes. 40.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

And everyone in their 40s had like a bunch of kids. Like, I didn't have any role models of people in their 40s who were just living their life, not having to like be in a place of deep familial responsibility. So that seemed old to me as a kid. But I I'm also zooming ahead. I'm like in my 70s, I'm probably not gonna feel like I'm in my 70s. It's gonna be great.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Yeah, what a treat. I know this podcast is still running that I'm gonna call you when you're 69. Hello, I'll call you when you're 59 if we can do that part. Amanda, it was so lovely to chat with you. Thank you for your time and your wisdom and your courage in all that you continue to do. And as you grow, it's it's such a joy to be your friend and watch you thrive.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Ditto, ditto, absolutely.

unknown 23:57

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Amanda, thank you again for sharing your wisdom, your thoughts. You know, at my house I have this giant pine cone. It's from a Douglas fir tree, and I picked it up off the side of the road after I was leaving your wedding many years ago. And everywhere I've lived since, I get carry it with me. And when I see it, I think of our friendship, I think of how we've known each other for decades, I think of our connection with nature, and I also think about our connection with our families. Folks, thanks again for joining the Niners Podcast. Stay tuned for our next episode when I am able to interview Amanda's father, Mac. And I hear some pretty different perspectives and also some similar themes. I hope you all tune in and enjoy. Special thanks to Jen Cornell for providing our intro and outro music. I'm Tim Cunningham, and I look forward to joining you in our next episode.